Albany, Néw York, will be the scene of two competing rallies on Tuesday.
Eva Moskowitz is closing her charter schools on NYC and will bus thousands of children and parents to lobby for her charter chain.
On the same day, allies of Mayor de Blasio will assemble to urge the legislature to permit NYC to tax the richest–those who earn more than $500,000 annually–to pay for universal pre-K.
Place your bets, folks. Will it come down to a contest between which groups made the biggest campaign contributions? Or will the greater public good prevail?
Diane Ravitch's blog 
Paging MS – how is it legal for Ms. Moskowitz to close her schools and bus the children to a protest? Would an actual public school get away with this?
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Field trip to the capital to learn about and express their 1st Amendment rights as Americans is as great a civics class as can be imagined. I suppose you would rather these kids be in their local zoned school being bullied falling further behind in their education. Most public charters in NYC have school years that are 2-3 weeks longer than zoned schools as well.
Now, as for the hypocracy of your view. Its not ok to teach kids to fight for their freedoms and express their constitutional rights but it is ok for teachers to legally go on strike (See Chicago just last year) and hold an entire neigborhood hostage?! Double standard!!!
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What do you think would have happened if Chicago schools had tried to force their students to attend the CTU rallies?
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A CTU rally is not a school rally, its an anti-school rally. Apples and Oranges. Now if you could be so kind please answer my question, and this time with an answer, not another question.
Why is it acceptable to allow teachers to strike and hold cities hostage but not acceptable to allow students to fight for thier schools right to exist?
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OMG, I’m splitting my sides. I asked you a question and you responded with a completely unrelated question. Now you’re demanding that I answer your question without another question??? Too funny!
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Notice that Dienne does not answer for her hypocritical standpoint. Teacher strikes are fine and dandy but kids learning and experssing their 1st amendment rights should be illegal. Honestly folks, I cant even make this up. It’s posts like this that encapsulate the lack of credibility the anti-choice folks have.
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MS – pot, meet kettle.
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They should just shut the charters down permanently. When people pay their taxes they don’t want the money to go to a private company or person.
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Nobody here believes the kids are expressing their first amendment rights. They are being used as props. Pure exploitation.
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“OMG, I’m splitting my sides. I asked you a question and you responded with a completely unrelated question.”
That’s par for the course with this poster. He/she ignores the question, deflects it with a false “tit for tat” argument, then belabors the deflection without ever defending his/her initial argument with any real evidence. Then the poster responds with, “I’m not talking to you anymore because YOURE NOT WORTH IT.”
I find it amusing, too. MS still has no response for the comments about why he/she should not have to care about “other people’s children/problems” and how grateful he/she is that his/her child(ren) no longer go to school with these children since Eva “came to the rescue.” Still NO RESPONSE, yet so entertaining. It’s almost farcical at this point. 😛
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Yikes, I sorta agree with MS here, as long as the trip is optional and no grades depend on it. I saw a bunch of kids and teens at Library Advocacy Day in Albany yesterday, and it was wonderful to see them so engaged in the political process and so enthusiastic about libraries.
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Except if history is any guide, the trip is NOT optional. Besides, this isn’t a rally for students’ rights – it’s a rally to directly benefit Eva herself.
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Hi Susan, Thanks. It is optional, I am a parent at SA and we were all but begged to go, but we are not forced to attend. You will hear many say that it’s ‘mandatory’ but I can assure you that is untrue. Most parents will not attend as they can not get free from work or have the desire to just like the rally in the city last year.
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You’re right, MS. It’s optional. If you don’t mind Eva personally going after your child until you quietly withdraw from the school with your tail between your legs.
In any case, if it is optional, what alternative learning experiences is SA providing for those students who choose not to go?
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So, wait.
Tax payer money is being used to close schools and transport children to a political rally?
I cannot even with anyone who thinks that is ok.
If the parents are instructed to attend, well, ok. Not my business.
But is school is closed, then the children have no choice.
That is NOT a field trip.
It is using children as props in political theater.
Sick.
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My opinion exactly, our tax money is paying to keep it open. send email to the state comptroller.
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Public Good: Honest parents and children fighting to protect their world class public schools against a war mongering mayor trying to shut them down, widen the achievement gap and increase poverty levels to protect establishment special interests controlling a failing system.
Campaign Contributions: Demanding a tax on the rich to pay for union contracts that you promised behind closed doors to get their vote. Of course the money is already there for Pre-K, more than enough, but the mayor can not ‘madoff’ state funds into union deals, he can with a special city tax. The guy is so dimwitted he admitted as much.
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How is it legal to close your schools and have the kids engage in political protest on your behalf?
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The school isnt closed, its on a field trip. You dont think exercising your constitutional rights is learning?
How is it legal to allow teachers to strike and close schools holding entire cities hostage?
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Learning? This is just sheer exploitation disguised as learning.
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“The school isn’t closed”
So it is open?
There will be teachers conducting classes with students present?
If not, the school is not open, it is closed.
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But this is the second time this school year that students from SA are going to political rallies. How many times should they do this before it’s no longer a field trip.
The Chicago schools made up the time missed during the strike. No one was held hostage, particularly since many, many parents supported the teachers.
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LP,
The rally in the fall was a half day and this one is a full day, thats a day and a half of field trips. Do you really think this is the amount of time that needs to be made up?
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It is illegal for public schools to do this…But then again, charters are not truly “public” schools.
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It’s not a field trip, it’s political exploitation. Sorry the parents of these kids will allow them to participate. I certainly would not allow my kids to participate in a “political rally” in favor of giving more public money to the private owner of the school. This one is simple — of course a true public school would never be allowed to do it (correctly) — it is simply outrageous and offensive that Ms. Moskowitz and her staff would plan this for kids. Clearly, she is greedy and unethical — so unethical to exploit children in this way.
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Yet it is legal for unionized school teachers to strike…. Can you spell Double Standard?
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MS – it is not legal for teachers to strike. They are fined and sometimes even sent to jail. However, students do not picket alongside the teachers.
There are legitimate field trips – even trips to the state capital. This field trip, however, sounds like a political stunt. I’ve seen something similar done in Buffalo when the board threatened to close a school – the children would attend a board meeting and plea their cause. It’s so much more effective than a teacher’s voice.
But. Yes, MS, it will be a learning experience. The question is, what are the children really learning?
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I’ve seen posts and comments on this blog that seem to indicate that denying the usefulness of universal pre-k is tantamount to denying that the earth revolves around the sun… but is the evidence really so clear? Here is an interesting recent article:
http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/brown-center-chalkboard/posts/2014/02/26-does-prek-work-whitehurst
An excerpt:
“Not one of the studies that has suggested long-term positive impacts of center-based early childhood programs has been based on a well-implemented and appropriately analyzed randomized trial, and nearly all have serious limitations in external validity. In contrast, the only two studies in the list with both high internal and external validity (Head Start Impact and Tennessee) find null or negative impacts, and all of the studies that point to very small, null, or negative effects have high external validity. In general, a finding of meaningful long-term outcomes of an early childhood intervention is more likely when the program is old, or small, or a multi-year intervention, and evaluated with something other than a well-implemented RCT. In contrast, as the program being evaluated becomes closer to universal pre-k for four-year-olds and the evaluation design is an RCT, the outcomes beyond the pre-k year diminish to nothing.”
Can any of the experts here speak to the findings of this article? I mean, it *does* come from the Brookings Institution, so it would be easy to dismiss it as “THE BIA$ED PRODUCT OF THE DEFORMER$$$ AND THEIR CORPORATE ALLIE$”… but I was hoping for something more detailed.
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I’ll have to admit I’ve questioned its impact.
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Diane posted about the Whitehurst/Brookings claims a couple weeks ago here: https://dianeravitch.net/2014/02/12/whitehurst-of-brookings-supports-vouchers-for-pre-k-doubts-need-for-it/
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Diane’s post doesn’t leave me any more convinced. She approvingly cites the following explanation from an article in The Economist:
“Three strands of research combine to support the importance of the early years. From neuro-scientific research, we understand the criticality of early brain development; from social science research, we know that high quality programmes improve children’s readiness for school and life; and from econometric research, we know that high quality programs save society significant amounts of money over time.”
The Brookings article argues that the social science and econometric research does NOT in fact support pre-K. It doesn’t mention the neuroscience stuff.
The one interesting bit from Diane’s post is the point about female labor force participation, which is quite interesting.
Overall though I wouldn’t call Diane’s repost a serious scholarly reply to the Whitehurst/Brookings claims. Does anyone know where I could find one?
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One positive will be the early identification of possible learning issues. This early discovery can lead to early interventions which will, hopefully, allow the child to “catch up”.
For example, My grandson was way behind in his speech development. With my background in early childhood education, I identified this problem and assisted my daughter in getting speech therapy through Erie County Services (which is free). He is on his way to catching up and the speech teacher indicates his difficulties do not require special education placement. He is three.
My worry is that the government will interfere with the appropriate curriculum for a pre schooler and try to add rigor into the classroom. As long as the program isn’t connected to CC, I’m in favor of it.
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@ellen klock.. I agree with you but fear that universal pre k is just another strategy for corporate “ed reformers” to profit by creating untesting, developmentally inappropriate “rigor” in pre k class rooms… they need to increase heads to increase profits.
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artseagal – that is my fear.
On the surface it looks like an incredible opportunity.
In reality, I cringe to think this is probably another way to destroy public education.
And they are just babies.
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Brookings was outed as a tool which corporate billionaires use to promote their agendas: http://pando.com/2014/02/28/an-anti-pension-billionaire-shows-the-five-rules-of-deceptive-native-advertising/ If Whitehurst wants his opinon to be viewed as credible, he should have published it in a peer-reviewed scholarly educational research journal, not on a Brookings belief-tank blog.
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I dont see how these rallys even duel. Everyone supports universal pre-K accept the mayor. These rallys do not have opposite messages by any means nor do they really compete.
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Again, you’re too funny. Ever thought of stand-up comedy? Geez, universal pre-k wasn’t even on the table until de Blasio put it there.
BTW, it’s “except”, not “accept”. “Hypocrisy”, not “hypocracy”.
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What exactly do you perceive as a better education for children here, apart from socio-economic segregation?
Also, are you being REMUNERATED in any form for your posting here? You speak as someone that is always spinning your answers for justification, hijacking the thread.
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Happy to answer but I dont grasp the question. Are you asking me what makes a public charter education better than a zoned school eduation?
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Now Nano,
MS is no troll . . . simply someone who believe passionately about myths, inequity, individualism, and who has a total lack of critical thinking and language skills as demonstrated by his/her responses that have near total irrelevance to the comments or questions posed.
MS, no one here is laughing at you; we’re simply – most of us – are laughing together without you . . . .
Now, MS, go do some private fundraising for your favorite charter . . . why not volunteer for the dunking tank . . . . just make sure it gets filled with water and that no one sneaks in the hydrochloric acid as a substitute for the water.
To say that Diane Ravtich wants kids to drop dead shows your limited thinking. . . . Turn off the TV and stop this obsesson with the Kardashians, put away the valentines day gifts you’ve been saving for Eva Moskowitz – gift wrap and all – and think before you write for once . . . .
Just once . . . .
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Eve Moskowitz receives money every day from the State of New York. to educate the students in her schools. If she is going to close school and bus all those kids to Albany for use as props in a giant photo op, she should be required to return one day’s money to the state. And of course the cost of mounting this giant lobbying effort should come out of the coffers of her company, not the state treasury. Otherwise, she is simply misappropriating state money for her private use
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Her schools have a school year that is 3 weeks longer than the co-located schools. Should those schools pay for the 3 weeks they under-educate their students?
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Three less weeks of test prep is no big deal…it’s actually heavenly. Free choice reading is a much better use of time. Colleges and employers don’t need expert test takers otherwise known as “scholars”.
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“Eva Moskowitz is closing her charter schools on NYC and will bus thousands of children and parents to lobby for her charter chain.”
Why doesn’t anyone ask Eva Moskowitz why she doesn’t care about the welfare of the kids that are already in those schools?
How does co-location affect them? Does anyone care?
I never even hear them mentioned. It’s all charters, charters, charters, 24/7. Rupert Murdoch is whining right now on Twitter. Not a word about the kids that are already in those schools.
Are they invisible? I would think one of the charter advocates would make at least a passing reference to them. Which high-powered celebrity reformer is protecting their interests?
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They are not only invisible, they are expendable…no one cares…
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Exactly. Now it is all, “Oh woe is me, oh the poor children.” Give me a break. They didn’t care about the children or staff they harmed.
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I live in Albany. Thanks for the warning! Since a don’t have much of a horse in either game, I think I will watch this one from a distance.
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What do you know, the Mayors ‘pro-tax’ rally is actually a Union rally meant to attack the pro public school rally by parents and teachers.
http://www.hotelworkers.org/article/show-solidarity-and-support-your-union-on-tuesday-march-4th-2014
Care to explain why the Hotel and Motel Trade Union would rally for higher taxes for universal Pre-K?
This is getting outright disgusting. I will be at the pro public school rally and I will video tape the verbal assaults that we receive from the union side and post them here.
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Yawn. In your book, any disagreement is “verbal assault”.
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I hope you are right but I doubt it. I see no reason why union protestors calling for tax hikes would have any issue with protestors rallying for the survivial of their public schools. Unfortunately I see a more sinister objective behind the union rally.
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MS, how can you see anything about the union or any other matter when you are clearly and intellectually blind . . . .
Mr. Magoo, when will you realize that education is a public trust?
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Make sure you post all of the nasty attacks that have been made on teachers and public schools too.
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“Rupert Murdoch @rupertmurdoch 1h
Charters. How can de Blasio do this same day Obama making major effort for disadvantaged black and Latino boys.”
Oh, I don’t know. Because he’s a mayor not a CEO and running a public system and he has to weigh cost/benefit for the both sets of kids, public and charter, instead of taking orders from a single billionaire?
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How iconic is this? One group is marching for increased taxes on those earning $500K, in order to pay for Universal PreK. The other group is marching because their poor $500K earning leader doesn’t want to pay more taxes, or pay rent, AND she wants Universal PreK for her schools.
Eva wants a threefer. It’s “The $500K Bang for Your Buck Rally.”
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Cosmic Tinker: what you said! You got ‘em by the numbers they so adore…
I refer back to a very recent posting here on this blog:
Link: https://dianeravitch.net/2014/02/25/eva-moskowitz-plans-to-fight-mayor-de-blasio-in-albany/comment-page-1/#comments
In an extended comment, I outlined the Venality Added Measurement/Venality Added Modeling system created by the charterites/privatizers and used as a club by their edubully enforcers.
I gathered the data. I worked like a VAMANiac. However, in spite of torturing figures, massaging conclusions, and giving Eva M[oskowitz] every numerical advantage (fair and unfair) over Carmen F[arina], I came up with a hard data point—
For every student of Eva M, $70@year; for every student of Carmen F, $0.50@year.
On the charterite/privatizer VAM index, the former obviously enjoys over the latter an unassailable advantage of 140 to 1 on any metric you care to raise—work ethic, morality, intelligence, saintliness, worthiness, patience, experience, formal education…
It’s as clear as the bottom line because “Men lie and women like but numbers don’t.” [Dr. Steve Perry, “America’s Most Trusted Educator”—channeling rapper Jay-Z]
Now, being the sort of troublesome public school advocate for the 94% of NYC students that the edufrauds and edubullies want to throw away, I decided to pursue their VAMania a little further than perhaps they originally intended…
Let’s say we leave the cage busting achievement gap crushing innovation of the twenty first century and return to quaint silly notions of yesteryear like “fairness” and “decency” and “good sense.”
If Eva M were to be paid like Carmen F, let’s see, 7000 students x $0.50 = $3,500@year. $499,000@year current salary – $3,500 = $495,500@year lost to touchy feely antiquated foolishness. The sheer horror of it all!
😡
If Carmen F were to be paid like Eva M, let’s see, 1,100,000 students x $70 = $77,000,000. $77,000,000 – $412,000 current salary = $76,588,000@year increase. The sheer horror of it all!
😡
I think you can see where I’m going with this.
As for the shills and trolls who come here to vent their sneering contempt, an old Greek guy nailed them to the wall over 2000 thousand years ago:
“A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true.”
😎
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MS
Has been unhinged on Diane ‘s blog the past two days. One commentator accurately noted that she needs help from a psychologist or a psychiatrist.
The venom of her remarks makes me concerned for Diane’s well being. MS is riding the edge between hateful, delusional words and violent action.
But, I wonder why MS doesn’t care about the students attending the regular old public school who schools are in decrepit condition with money being siphoned off by Eva living off the public teat.
In some self righteous manner, MS probably considers them beneath her concern and deserving of their pitiful conditions due to the “failure” of their parents/care-givers to see the light like MS.
I remember watching videos and reading interviews of people who belonged to Jim Jones’ cult. MS ‘s words are eerily similar to their words.
Finally, if Diane or her assistant with this blog were to trace the IP address of MS and other two, you would see that they belong to computers at Eva’s schools.
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I think MS is male.
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Thanks, I thought in one of the previous posts MS indicate they were female.
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He referred to himself as a man the other day.
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Male?
Female?
Why should we assume MS is even human, since the comments are pre-digested and regurgitated talking points, intended to attack and misdirect.
More likely MS is just another garden variety ReformBot sending off disinformation and potential distractions, based on a Gates’-produced algorithm.
On the other hand, let Eva keep sending out her robotic screeds: each one is a data point, confirming her increasing panic and desperation, for as with every Ponzi scheme, when it stops growing, it has collapsed.
That said, your grandmother’s advice still rings true: don’t feed the trolls, whether cult or algorithm-based.
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I’m not buying that MS (is that for multiple sclerosis?) is just a peeved-off, ignorant mom. No human being would warp answers to objective questions as she does–only someone profiting from the sham of Moskwitz’s publicly financed administrative salary-test prep schools.
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For that matter, “teachingeconomist’ has not answered my question fro several months now if he eceives remuneration from posting right-wing think tank free market boiler plate. It is distracting and retracts from this blog. We all went to U.S. colleges an schools, we got the Freidminite memo as we observed the country crumble in slow motion over the past thirty years to benefit banks.
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Nano, please let’s not use MS the disease as a way of characterizing the highly disapproved of MS on this blog.
A very close relative of mine suffered from the disease, and I’ll leave it at that.
However, Nano, if you wish to join hands and paint a realistic portrait of MS in the form of a caricature – which is appropriate – then please do. Let’s all make a huge mural and enter it in some political cartoon contests . . . . .
MS, would you be willing to pose? We can’t pay you the same rate as Ms. Moskowitz, but I will personally fund raise for you and see what I can come up with . . . .
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Once again Nano, thank you for using my posting name rather than the sexually demeaning names you usually call me. I have, of course, answered your question each and every time you asked, but I have a deep well of patience, so I will answer it again.
The only people who pay myself or my spouse are the good citizens of my state. Perhaps my fifth answer will be read, but I am not betting on it.
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Imagine what it must be like to be that union person getting paid to go to a protest and scream obsenities at parents and children trying to save the school they love from extinction. It really must suck to be that person!!!
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WTF?
You are either delusional or someone whose anger has perverted their mind like a cancer.
Stop by a church and speak to a priest.
They can help.
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No one hear has sympathy for charters. They are for profit shams. The people in the reform movement haven’t given one hoot for the children and staff in public schools they have harmed.
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Thought this was interesting.
The next time you’re told “most” charter SCHOOLS aren’t for-profit, know that the truth is the for-profits are huge, which results in MOST charter school students attending for-profit schools.
Measuring by school is deceptive. One has to measure by enrollment to get a true picture of how big the for-profits are.
“enrollments at non-profit EMOs are still lower than at for-profit schools.”
“The largest for-profit EMO? K12 Inc., which educated more than twice as many students in 2011-12 school year than KIPP, the largest non-profit EMO.”
I knew it was true in Ohio, but I didn’t know it was also true nationwide.
http://cashinginonkids.com/blogs/nepc-charter-study-profit-education-management-organizations-surpass-non-profits-enrollment/
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I think its a mistake when people seem to imply that identifying an organization as for-profit counts as a criticism of the work being done by that organization. Properly regulated pursuit of honest profit often leads to outstanding products that benefit everyone, including economically disadvantaged folks.
Of course, the issue is that it is not at all clear in this instance whether the pursuit of profit in the charter industry is properly regulated, so I’m not saying that there are no good criticisms of for-profit charters. I’m just making a general point.
The for-profit/non-profit distinction is mostly just a legal distinction for tax purposes, not much more.
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In New York State it is illegal for a public charter school to be for profit. They must be set up as 501(c) corporations. They can not legally have shareholders. This does not stop the deceptive practice by the anti charter extremist left of claiming they make a profit. As you will see if you spend time on this forum, about 110% of the psudo-facts the anti charter folks post are utterly wrong.
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MS, tell that to all the charters whose leaders have stolen funds, reduced quality of instruction by creating turnover and revolving doors, and have made real estate deals to the disadvantage of the populations served. Florida is a prime example of this . . . .
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Memo to MS:
Good always triumphs over Evil . . . .
Godd always triumps over Eva . . . .
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Lead us not into Eva, but deliver us….
Sorry, had to say it.
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Interesting read here by Mercedes Schneider looking over Eva’s tax records….LOTS of questions…LOTS of inconsistencies…LOTS of public money being used, but not to pay rent or leases or for property…LOTS of interesting questions could be asked…need to be asked http://deutsch29.wordpress.com/2013/12/01/success-academy-tax-documents-moskowitz-can-afford-the-rent/
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Tracy, charters like Success Academy already pay rent in the form of a subsidy. That is, they get less state funding and the state covers the building management costs. Zoned schools get over 20k per student yet public charters like Success get just $13,500. THe reason for this discrepancy in funding is due to the rent subsidy. So anytime you hear an anti charter person claim they pay no rent, ask them about the $6,500 per pupil funding loss the public charters have vs zoned schools.
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Charters also have boards of directors that raise a lot of money privately. .. . just ask Geoffrey Canada . . . and the Promise Academy.
Bottom line MS: education is a social, public responsibility, not a shiny merchandising of choice and menu selection . . . .
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http://ny.chalkbeat.org/2011/02/15/most-city-charters-receive-more-funds-than-districts-study-finds/
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If charters can become part of a hedge fund portfolio, then charters can go get their own buildings.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2013/09/10/charter-school-gravy-train-runs-express-to-fat-city/
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Charters are also eligible for federal money.
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Why doesn’t Eva just open up some private schools with private funds instead of ripping off taxpayers?
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MS – the 20K at public schools is due to the high cost of educating students in special education who require small class sizes, teacher aides, PT, OT, speech, and other services which the average student in a Charter School does not need. ESL students also need special services so add them into the mix.
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Ellen, you have it wrong. As the IBO study shows, the special needs costs are not that high surprisingly. The real difference is teachers benefits like fully funded and guaranteed pensions and gold plated healthcare benefits. The cost is about 5k per student. So that $21k turns into 16k. Charters do not have pension liabilities, their employees, like most all employees in the private sector, pay into 401k plans that stop comminities from being bankrupted. I am sure you are aware of the situation in Detroit. Well it will be coming to a city near you very soon…
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MS, you denigrate teachers with this response. My daughters work at non education establishments and get free or low cost health care. One is in the NYS retirement system, the other is in a 401K with matching funds (She also gets a nice size bonus every year). Both are professionals. Both get yearly raises of 2-3%. Both earn more than a teacher.
In Buffalo, there hasn’t been a raise in ten years. It takes thirty years to get to the top step – due to a three year step freeze.
The NYS Retirement system is solvent. Teachers contribute into the system at varying rates, based on their tier. The school district does pay into the system, but in single digit amounts.
Policemen and Firemen also get pensions – with funding from the government.
Are you saying that teachers are throw away items? That they are expendable – to fire after a year or two of service? That’s what a TFA is for – a two year term. Don’t teachers deserve pensions? Are you saying teachers should be private employees and not public ones? So we are like MacDonald’s workers – perhaps we might even be worth $15 an hour.
One of the major down sides of charter schools is their treatment of teachers. I find it abusive.
Another major issues is the elimination of tenure – or the opportunity to get rid of experienced, but more “expensive” teachers.
Don’t worry, MS, we are moving towards the two year teacher model. Low pay, no benefits, long hours – no career.
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Because this has come up before, could you clarify what you mean by a raise?
Those of us outside the public school system usually interpret a raise to be any increase in compensation from one year to the next (that is if teacher A’s compensation this year is exactly the same as teacher A’s compensation last year, teacher A has not received a raise). Several teachers who post here do not count step increases as raises, counting only increases above step increases as a raise, leading to some confusion.
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In Buffalo, the pay schedule starts at about $32,000 with about a $1600 increment for some of the step years. There are numerous years where the salary stays the same. There was a step freeze for three years (for me four years since I was in a non step increase year), thus it takes thirty years to get to the top step of about $75,000 for those with a Master’s degree plus 30 hours of additional college coursework. This has been the pay schedule since January 2004.
In the meantime, the local suburban districts reach the top step in about 15 years and average $10,000 more annually at the bottom levels and $20,000 more at the top levels. The reason they get more is that on top of the step increase (which we don’t consider a raise) they receive a 2-3% yearly raise. The last raise Buffalo received was 1.5% in January 2004.
Teachers are not the only profession to have increments or steps. I know my daughter who works in a hospital is on a step, plus she gets a raise each year. She makes more than a comparable teacher in the BPS. Firemen and police officers also have step increments. My oldest, who is a project manager at a bank, does not have increments. However, she not only gets a raise, but also a bonus which is larger than the step increases. Her salary, midway through her career, is already more than a master teacher earns.
I guess the question to be asked is if teachers, who are required to have masters degrees in order to teach, are considered professionals? The way teachers are currently being treated seems to indicate the answer is no.
So we veterans are discouraging our own children from pursuing the NON-career in education.
I suggest you start recruiting more TFAs, because the future seems bleak for professional teachers. Remember – you get what you pay for.
The rest of you – let’s start a “homeschooling school”. Perhaps we can get funded as a Charter.
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I thought I was asking a much simpler question.
When you say teachers have not received a raise in ten years, most of us outside K-12 education would interpret that to mean a teacher who has been employed in Buffalo is earning the same salary (the same numbers on the check) now as they did 10 years ago. From your response I gather that teacher who has worked in Buffalo has received at least some “step increases” and is thus earning more than that teacher earned 10 years ago.
Is that correct?
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TE – I would hope so. Most young teachers starting out have to work a second job to make ends meet since the starting salary isn’t much more than a worker at a fast food restaurant. After ten years, the prevailing wage is less than the money earned by professionals in other fields.
It’s fine for kids living at home, not great for someone supporting a family.
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This is the source of some confusion. For most people, not getting a raise means that a person is getting exactly the same salary this year as last.
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TE – I guess the raise would be to the base salary to make it more competitive with other professionals.
The community at large feels that teachers should earn the same money as a high school graduate. And this is almost true for a beginning teacher.
I’m not going to apologize for what I earned or for retiring with a decent pension. I worked hard for over thirty years using my expertise to promote literacy and educate my students to make them, not only “college ready”, but to prepare them for the future with life long learning skills.
I wonder if part of this whole pushback against education is sexist. The public still thinks of us as single women working in a one room school house who “retire” once they marry. Since teaching is considered a woman’s profession and many of the complaints come from “moms” – the outcry is disregarded. Please refer to Duncan’s comments about suburban mothers. Is this an indication of the viewpoint of the decision makers? It fits in with other anti-woman policies.
Just wondering aloud.
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I think this is an important point for public relations. When I don’t get a raise, my salary next year will be exactly the same next year as it was this year. The same is true for the good taxpayers of the state of New York.
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This would work if the starting salary was competitive. Unfortunately, beginning teachers who haven’t proven their worth and who often don’t last beyond a few years, if that, are not paid a decent salary. The step increments encourage teachers to stick it out. It’s like a reward for a job well done. But even then, without the raises, the pay would stagnate.
It boils down to whether you want qualified people teaching your children or do you want people willing to work their asses off for bargain basement salaries until something better comes along.
When I started teaching I was makng $8000 a year. By your standards, without the benefit of steps, I would be making close to $15,000 after thirty plus years of service.
You do the math.
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Once again it is an issue of public relations. When you tell the hard working taxpayers of the state that teachers have gotten no raises, they think it means what it would mean for them: the same salary that they earned ten years ago. To almost everyone, a step increase IS a raise.
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Perhaps it would be better to say that the starting salary of teachers has not increased in Buffalo in the last ten years.
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Agreed.
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Please sign this petition to stop the war against our public schools…
http://www.change.org/petitions/mayor-de-blasio-and-pa-letitia-james-leave-performing-charter-schools-alone-please
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Do you work for Eva? What is your profession?
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financial services
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It is sometimes good to have a sparing partner. It forces one to make cogent arguments based on fact. The disingenuous nature of MS’s posts here will not lead to anything of benefit within this community. It is probably best to ignore his/her bating and babbling.
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http://nypost.com/2014/02/27/de-blasio-administration-halts-expansion-of-success-academy-charter-schools/
Hundreds of children just lost their school for this fall, and the anti choice movement supports these children being left with lesser options. Mrs Ravitchs claim hollows thru…………Drop Dead!!!!!
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Eva has the money to relocate these schools.
If the kids have not “dropped dead” from Eva’s relentless test drills even on days when inclement weather had all other schools closed, and if they haven’t “dropped dead” from becoming “little test taking machines,” then I’m thinking them impervious to your Ravitch-blaming melodrama.
“The day before the scheduled math test, the city got socked with eight inches of snow. Of 1,499 schools in the city, 1,498 were closed. But at Harlem Success Academy 1, 50-odd third-graders trudged through 35-mile-per-hour gusts for a four-hour session over Subway sandwiches. As Moskowitz told the Times, ‘I was ready to come in this morning and crank the heating boilers myself if I had to.’
“’We have a gap to close, so I want the kids on edge, constantly,’ Fucaloro adds. ‘By the time test day came, they were like little test-taking machines.’”
http://nymag.com/news/features/65614/index3.html
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A thought about universal Pre-K.
Why does the state find it necessary to raise children until they are ready to begin twelve years of public education?
Have we gotten to the point where children must be institutionalized at the earliest age educators believe they should?
Does anyone think it is ‘healthy’ to bring a child to be ‘raised’ by govt., rather than develop in their own home environment?
Have we become a state where parents can defer to the state at any point they feel the burden of ‘parenting’ is too difficult?
The state may be quick to step in to become the “parent” for mothers and fathers who do not have the time or desire to help their children develop at home.
But, I’ve yet to see evidence that this is better than children remaining in a home environment during the important formative years.
I’m sure education “experts” will dig up some report to defend Pre-K education, but it will omit what has been lost.
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We sent both our kids to pre-K programs. One to private and one to public. We did it because we thought they’d like it, and they did. They were happy there. I think they benefited from it, but I have no evidence to show you.
I’ve seen pre-K programs that I wouldn’t feel great about sending my kids to, though.
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All four of my kids went to Pre-K. I found it beneficial – and it wasn’t free. I was happy to pay for the experience.
Not everyone can spare the cash.
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Since school is not mandated prior to first grade, parents should still have the option of keeping their young children at home. In fact, they can keep their kids at home from grades 1-12 through the home schooling process, if they choose.
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Wilhelm-Rabitch-farina to this poor mother and her child……..DROP DEAD!!!
http://nypost.com/2014/02/28/dont-write-off-my-son/
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MS to public school students and their families and teachers: drop dead. We charterites don’t care about “you people”‘s civil rights and the common good or democracy. Let profit reign. MS, there are highly successful public schools. Why can’t those schools and students have the same privileges as Eva’s?
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