Chris Potter of the Pittsburgh City Paper interviewed me when I was in town. I liked him, and we got along very well.

He got me talking, the sign of a good reporter.

Categories Ravitch, Diane

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Kcashin says:

September 21, 2013 at 1:43 pm

Unbelievably moving!!’ KC

Sent from my iPhone

>

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scheidell jack says:

September 21, 2013 at 2:17 pm

Phi Delta Kappa International (PDK), a global association of education professionals, has conducted the annual Poll of the Public’s Attitude Toward the Public Schools in conjunction with Gallup since 1969. This year’s poll was based on conversations with 1001 respondents, and I then wanted to see responses from the National PTA and NEA and other recipients of Gates and HuntFoundation monies. It sometimes is what is not said regarding the information surrounding CCSS. I watched a pod cast of my local school board meeting, and if you were a low information citizen, as the poll indicates that 45% know little if anything regarding the CC, you would think that this is the greatest reform coming down the pike! so I responded to NEA complaint of misinformation:
Misinformation is a problem and so is information not proffered. NEA did receive major Gates Foundation monies for their advocacy. ” One of the more enduring myths about the CCSS is that individual states adopted the standards in response to a federal mandate.” You didn’t explain that the RTTT was the source of this problem when Obama gave waivers to NCLB along with the possibility to gain money from the 4.35 billion in grants. The second round of waivers still imposes the mandatory longitudinal data bases that are to be interoperable with the 50 states. I guess it was “voluntary” if the governors, knowing that their cash strapped states need money, could have opted out. Opting Out, something that our districts can’t offer since loss of Title One funds is an issue. 3 laws were circumvented, including 10th Amendment. FERPA law was rewritten to allow 3rd party access to student data without mandatory parental signatures by DOE under Duncan. And yes, for you claiming to work for our children, sold them out for Gates money.
As with many of you who follow Ravitch’ blog, you could have enumerated many other issues to add to the anger that decorates this topic.

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janresseger says:

September 21, 2013 at 2:35 pm

This is an absolutely charming article. You ought to post it on your website if you haven’t already. It’s delightful.

Jan Resseger

http://janresseger.wordpress.com/

“That all citizens will be given an equal start through a sound education is one of the most basic, promised rights of our democracy. Our chronic refusal as a nation to guarantee that right for all children…. is rooted in a kind of moral blindness, or at least a failure of moral imagination…. It is a failure which threatens our future as a nation of citizens called to a common purpose… tied to one another by a common bond.” —Senator Paul Wellstone, March 31, 2000

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Elizabeth Rose says:

September 21, 2013 at 3:09 pm

This is a GREAT!!! interview, Diane. Very intimate and funny. I hope “Reign” outsells all other non fiction and, if you don’t have the energy to write your memoirs, maybe someone will make a documentary about your extraordinary life…divided in thirds, of course. Well done!

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TC says:

September 21, 2013 at 3:14 pm

Great interview, loved it!

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Jeannette says:

September 21, 2013 at 3:36 pm

You’re amazing! I just stood in my living to applaud you. My kids think I’m nuts. 😉 Love you Diane Ravitch!

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- dianerav says:
  
  September 21, 2013 at 9:17 pm
  
  Thank you!!
  
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Ellen Lubic says:

September 21, 2013 at 3:45 pm

Rising test scores of inner city students is mainly due, longitudinal studies show, to the pre-school training they had to make them learning-ready. Now, with huge funding cutbacks, many of these students will suffer. The sequestration cuts of at least 10% overall have caused tens of thousands of poor children to not have any pre-schools to attend.

We acknowledge that parents are children’s first teachers, and that is the vast chasm between children living in poverty, and all other children. When parents are either working two or three jobs just to afford basic food and shelter, and other parents are drugged or imprisoned, or the many who have limited education themselves and just cannot help their young children by reading to them, taking them to museums, and all the enrichment middle class parents can offer, it is clear how vital pre-school is to create students who can learn.

Although test scores are going up in inner cities, it will be interesting, though I predict alarming, to see what this economy will bring to scoring in the next few years.

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Linda says:

September 21, 2013 at 4:57 pm

I will put a special ornament on my Christmas tree just for you, Diane!

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DNAmartin says:

September 21, 2013 at 6:46 pm

Great interview. A memoir some day . . .

In line with a memoir, ASU has a program called Inside the Academy highlighting the professional and personal stories of our most distinguished scholars in education.

Diane is featured . . . .

http://insidetheacademy.asu.edu/diane-ravitch

There are video interviews and personal photos
nsidetheacademy.asu.edu/diane-ravitch

and reflections from loved ones
nsidetheacademy.asu.edu/reflections-on-diane-ravitch

The stories of the other 14 honorees are also inspirational . Honorable people dedicated to honorable pursuits.

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- DNAmartin says:
  
  September 21, 2013 at 6:49 pm
  
  The photo link works here
  
  http://insidetheacademy.asu.edu/photo-gallery-diane-ravitch
  
  and the reflection link works here
  http://insidetheacademy.asu.edu/reflections-on-diane-ravitch
  
  The video interviews on the main page are great.
  
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Joe Nathan says:

September 21, 2013 at 9:25 pm

Chris Potter wrote, “As your book notes, a few decades ago, many proposed education changes — like charter schools and vouchers — barely resonated outside a few right-wing think tanks.

Any accurate historical analysis recognizes that the first charter public school law was passed in Minnesota and its chief authors were Democrats. One of the many people of color to embrace the charter idea was Rosa Parks (yes that Rosa Parks) who tried to start charters in Detroit. Another progressive who was a huge advocate of charters was the late US Senator Paul Wellstone.

There is an attempt to re-write history. But the facts are clear for those willing to check them out.

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- Linda says:
  
  September 21, 2013 at 9:32 pm
  
  Write a book Joe and then you too can be interviewed, go on a book tour, create your own blog and build a loyal following. Diane has you beat in that respect, hands down.
  
  But keep cherry picking the “facts” you want to highlight, Joe. We have come to expect nothing more.
  
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  - Joe Nathan says:
    
    September 21, 2013 at 9:34 pm
    
    Actually, Linda, I did write several books and did talk with people all over the US – and continue to do so.
    
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  - Linda says:
    
    September 21, 2013 at 9:38 pm
    
    Never heard of you except your rants against Diane here. Your love for the privatizers is foremost in all of your posts. I’m sure they’ll take care of you.
    
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  - Joe Nathan says:
    
    September 21, 2013 at 9:45 pm
    
    Ember (one of the Democrats who were original authors of the Minnesota charter law) also wrote a book, just depicted.
    
    Moreover, one of the original supporters (and he continues to be a charter as well as district public school supporters – is President Bill Clinton – not exactly a guy who worked in right wing thing tanks. Clinton did a lot to advance progressive changes in education, including but not limited to chartering.
    
    He also worked hard to reduce poverty – and during his Presidency, many more people were employed.
    
    Another Democrat who worked hard to promote a variety of positive changes – including more $ for early childhood education, more support for shared school and community groups sharing space, and more strong district & charter public schools, was Clinton’s education Secretary, Dick Riley.
    
    As to “rants” – here’s a link to the weekly newspaper columns I write that appears in weekly suburban & rural Minnesota newspapers reaching several hundred thousand families a week.
    
    http://hometownsource.com/tag/joe-nathan/?category=columns-opinion
    
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  - dianerav says:
    
    September 21, 2013 at 9:49 pm
    
    Joe, I am happy to include you in the blog. I respect dissent and free speech. But you are Johnny One-Note, telling us again and again that charters are wonderful and public schools are not. It gets tiresome.
    
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  - Joe Nathan says:
    
    September 21, 2013 at 10:10 pm
    
    Actually, earlier this evening I wrote some things praising the Cincinnati Federation of Teachers, a number of teachers and principals in that district. I regularly describe great things happening in district public schools.
    
    And I regularly agree that some charters are doing a lousy job.
    
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  - Ang says:
    
    September 21, 2013 at 11:07 pm
    
    “And I regularly agree that some charters are doing a lousy job.”
    
    Great, please be specific and share some of the information you have on lousy charters.
    Please share what you have regularly done about them. Written Op-eds? Blogged about them? Tweeted complaints?
    Did you demand investigations? Corrective actions? Reimbursement for the looted?
    Please provide links to your “regular” scolding of the charter industry for the numerous well documented abuses of students, taxpayers and teachers.
    We have plenty of links to the charter cheerleading.
    
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  - Joe Nathan says:
    
    September 21, 2013 at 11:18 pm
    
    Ang, I’ll be glad to answer (at least some) of your questions and then I hope you will answer some of mine. You asked,
    1. Testified at the Mn State Board of Education, urging the closing of an ineffective charter (the only person to do this) – it helped convince the Mn board of Education to close the school.
    2. Urged a number of authorizers to close low performing charters. Sometimes they listened.
    3. Wrote a book about charters that the National School Board Association listed as one of 10 “must read” books for school board members. This included statements that charters must be accountable, and should be closed if they are not achieving their goals.
    4. Wrote columns for Minnesota’s 2 largest daily newspapers saying that trying to compare district & charters and conclude one or the other is better makes no sense because both vary widely, and because we can and should learn from the most effective examples of both. One of these columns, in Minnesota’s largest daily newspaper, concluded,
    
    “Isn’t it time to accept reality? Some of Minnesota’s finest schools are
    district, some are charters. We’ll make more progress by accepting that, and then
    learning from the most effective schools.”
    http://www.startribune.com/opinion/50494982.html
    
    So here are a few questions: What are you doing to help youngsters? Are you a teacher? Parent? Other?
    One of the values of being here for many of us is to learn what others are doing. You asked about what I have done and am doing. Fair enough.
    I hope you will tell me more about what you are doing. Thanks for considering this request.
    
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- dianerav says:
  
  September 21, 2013 at 10:38 pm
  
  Joe, the original proponents of charters were idealistic and progressive. Now the charter movement has been taken over by ALEC, the Heartland Institute, rightwing philanthropists like the Walton Family, Eli Broad, and Bill Gates. It has become a hoax because “innovative” means boot camp, and the grassroots are manufactured Astroturf.
  
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  - KrazyTA says:
    
    September 21, 2013 at 10:45 pm
    
    Linda & dianerav: thank you for taking your time and effort to clear things up. If I may add a few more words…
    
    If folks look at the comment to which you two are responding, please note that the second paragraph does not follow from the first (hence, the oft-used Latin phrase “non sequitur” = “it does not follow,” which is generally defined as “a statement that is not connected in a logical or clear way to anything said before it”).
    
    Again, the first question of Chris Potter in full: “As your book notes, a few decades ago, many proposed education changes — like charter schools and vouchers — barely resonated outside a few right-wing think tanks. Today, they are conventional wisdom in both parties. How did that happen?”
    
    Chris Potter did NOT say “did not resonate at all with anyone anywhere, in any way, shape or form, outside of a few right-wing think tanks.” He was more sparing, and pointed, in the number of words. He used the modifier “barely.” This served an important clarifying function in his question. IMHO, he was asking about the presence of a general trend or pattern, perhaps of national significance and far-reaching impact, and that was the question Diane responded to and answered—accurately.
    
    It is important to be accurate and fair. I refer viewers of this blog to a previous slur against public schools and teachers by the same commenter and my response, with links. Read for yourselves. Make up your own mind.
    
    The blog posting was entitled: Jeff Bryant: “No Excuses” for Abandoning Kids and Public Schools (July 13, 2013).
    
    Link: https://dianeravitch.net/2013/07/13/jeff-bryant-no-excuses-for-abandoning-kids-and-public-schools/
    
    “The readiest and surest way to get rid of censure, is to correct ourselves.” [Demosthenes]
    
    They say it’s good for the soul too…
    
    🙂
    
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  - Linda says:
    
    September 21, 2013 at 10:51 pm
    
    KTA: Thank you for refreshing my memory….as for “slur against public schools and teachers by the same commenter”….apparently that’s his hobby. Tiresome, indeed.
    
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  - Joe Nathan says:
    
    September 21, 2013 at 10:47 pm
    
    Glad to hear that we agree about the roots of the charter movement. Is this question from Chris Potter accurate? “As your book notes, a few decades ago, many proposed education changes — like charter schools and vouchers — barely resonated outside a few right-wing think tanks. ”
    
    That is, does your book assert that “a few decades ago, the charter idea “barely resonated outside a few right wing thing tanks?” Or did Chris misunderstand your book?
    
    The charter movement (like the Civil Rights movement, gay-rights movement, womens liberation movements, labor movement) is extremely diverse. Yes, the organizations you mentioned have a lot of influence.
    
    So do others (have influence) who believe, as you do, that it is important to work on greater income equality, on high quality early childhood education, on greater support for the arts in education, and a variety of other things. Two good examples – President Bill Clinton and Ember Reichgott Junge.
    
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Joe Nathan says:

September 21, 2013 at 10:57 pm

Actually, my work is to learn from some of the most effective public school teachers, help share their work with others, honor and encourage them. You’ll find plenty of examples of this on our website. Among the most recent are

* booklets written by district and charter students describing the value of dual credit courses
* You-Tube videos produced by district & charter students describing the value of dual credit courses
* Newspaper columns praising national and statewide teacher union leaders

http://www.centerforschoolchange.org

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Ang says:

September 21, 2013 at 11:13 pm

To Joe @ 10:47
Did you just compare the charter $chool movement to the civil rights, women’s, gay rights and labor movements?
Really?
Wow.
Uncool, IMHO.

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Joe says:

September 21, 2013 at 11:18 pm

Paul Wellstone on June 24, 1998 in a Washington Post interview: Wellstone: I think that it is really healthy to focus on different ways of teaching and learning – the more creativity the better. I say this as someone who was a teacher for 20 years before becoming a senator. I think that schools within schools, magnet schools, alternative schools, and charter schools within the public system all contribute toward more creativity and more exciting education. I think the voucher system, which takes resources out of the public system, represents a step backward, not a step forward.

In many ways, really my passion is children and education. And I think that really the focus in our country should be on how we can do better for young people who are, after all, 100% of our future. Part of that is education, but part of that is giving families the kind of support they need. I’m all for family values. But that means you value families. I want to have a real debate about family values, and a real debate must focus on how can we help, provide the kind of support that a parent or parents need to have more time with their children, to make sure there is child care if both are working, to make sure there are decent jobs that they can support families on, to make sure there is a good education for kids. To make sure that there are positive things for young people to do in the community. This is the most important challenge – to do well by young people and to do well by families.

The biggest mistake we’re making as a nation right now. We’ve abandoned too many young people, and we’ve devalued the work of adults who work with young people. And I think that’s a tragic mistake that needs to be corrected.

Wellstone was not for vouchers, it would appear that he was not for privatizing the public schools, to say the least. He was for “charter schools within the public system” which is totally different from what is going on now. Charter schools, as presently constituted, are not within the public school system, they are independent of district school boards, they do not work in cooperation with the district public schools. Wellstone would not approve of what is going on today with charter schools, I think he would reject them and reject what they have devolved into. Or do you think that Wellstone would be all kissy lovey with Gates, Broad, the Waltons, the Koch brothers, the libertarian billionaires and assorted hedge fund managers who want to privatize our public schools?

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- Joe Nathan says:
  
  September 21, 2013 at 11:29 pm
  
  Since Paul Wellstone was a dear friend, and colleague, with whom I worked on a number of issues, and on a number of campaigns, I have some knowledge of what he thought. He
  * Strongly opposed vouchers
  * Strongly supported charters, including those operating outside district public schools – he visited and praised a number of charters that were not part of districts
  * Strongly believed that we needed to work to improve schools and to improve conditions outside schools – like reducing poverty, increasing the # of people who have good paying jobs and benefits, strong health care for all, etc.
  * strongly believed in and worked for more high quality early childhood education, using a variety of measures to describe what’s happening
  * opposed allowing any public schools – district or charter – to use admissions tests.
  
  We agreed on each of those points.
  
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Joe says:

September 21, 2013 at 11:59 pm

As for the notion that Rosa Parks would be supporting Jeff Bezos or Carl Icahn Charter Schools, please don’t make me laugh.

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- Joe Nathan says:
  
  September 22, 2013 at 12:03 am
  
  Joe, she was trying to start a charter in Detroit during the last few years of her life:
  
  The story begins:
  ” More than 40 years after Rosa Parks refused to give up her seat to a white passenger on a bus, the opening salvo in what became the Montgomery, Ala., bus boycott, she is trying to set up one of the first charter schools in Detroit.”
  
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- chemtchr says:
  
  September 22, 2013 at 12:33 am
  
  Joe N, did you read what the other Joe wrote? He mentioned Jeff Bezos and Carl Icahn.
  
  You responded by brandishing Rosa Parks name again, without making any distinction between what she worked toward and those billionaire opportunists.
  
  I was almost believing in your sincerity when you wrote about Wellstone, thinking you must have conflicts if you truly admired him. It’s reprehensible to hide behind his name, or Rosa Parks, as an empty argumentation strategy. You would openly and vocally oppose profit-seeking, and defend democratic control of public education from political manipulators, if you shared their actual agenda.
  
  I’d welcome honest people who still develop and advocate for the original charter ideals. Such people wouldn’t be part of “the charter movement”, though, because cheats and liars took over their brand, and degraded it beyond recognition.
  
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  - Joe Nathan says:
    
    September 22, 2013 at 7:03 am
    
    Yes, I read what the other Joe said. I also pointed out times when I have worked (successfully) to convince relevant authorities that some charters should be closed.
    
    We urge legislators and others who make decisions to look at results, not who is running the school. (ie district school board, non-profit, or for profit). As noted in an earlier post, there are some great district schools, as well as great charters (and some ineffective district & charter). Some virtual schools are helping youngsters a lot, others are doing a bad job.
    
    Here’s a newspaper column that appeared all over Minnesota, in which examples of outstanding district & charters were praised:
    
    http://hometownsource.com/2013/05/08/joe-nathan-column-national-coalition-honors-outstanding-district-and-charter-public-schools/
    
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Paul Hoss says:

September 22, 2013 at 10:13 am

“But if you rank test scores by poverty and income, our low-poverty kids get incredible scores — higher than Finland and Japan and Korea … I began looking at long-trend test scores and the picture is up, up, up. There has been dramatic improvement, especially for black and Hispanic kids.”

Diane, is that to say some of the reforms are working? If not, why the improvement for children of color? Just curious.

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