You won’t find the answer to that question in this exchange but you will see some sharply worded responses to David Greene, who has mentored many TFA recruits.
Greene has the somewhat antiquated (but true) belief that we need teachers who see teaching as a career. As he writes, “Teaching must be a lifelong career worthy of those we want to teach.”
It is odd that there are so many (including Arne Duncan and the far-right Walton Foundation) who see TFA as a systemic answer to the question. Duncan gave TFA $50 million. Walton gave them $49.5 million.
And yet in its 20+ year history, TFA has produced less than 30,000 alumi. Most of them are no longer in classrooms. Its most prominent graduates are demanding privatization of public education: Michelle Rhee, John White in Louisiana, Kevin Huffman in Tennessee.
Diane Ravitch's blog 
They are doing exactly what they want to do, constructing an Absentee Managerial Pyramid on top of what used to be one of the flattest administrative hierarchies in modern society. The purpose of that AMP is the same as all the others we have today, sucking power and wealth from the lowest to the highest levels of the control regime.
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I don’t think spending $50,000,000 on TFA out of a total spending on K-12 public education of $610,000,000,000 ( about .008%) indicates that anyone thinks this the solution to staffing K-12 education.
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TE, is it cost efficient to give $50 million to an organization to send ill-trained teachers who agree to spend 2years in schools, then leave?
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It is extremely cost efficient with regard to its actual purpose.
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How much do we spend on traditionally trained teachers who leave after two years? Here is an interesting entry from Education Week about changes in the number and demographics of teachers.
http://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2012/05/16/kappan_ingersoll.h31.html
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Dear Jon,
Whose purpose? That of developing leaders such as M.Rhee?
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Do I remember correctly that districts pay TFA for each teacher…sort of a finder’s/placement fee?
I seem to remember reading that TFA gets $ for each teacher they place, regardless of whether or not there was any shortage of “regular teachers” available.
Seems like a waste of tax payer money to me.
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yes, districts pay TFA for the teachers. The argument is supposedly – even independent of the question of quality – that the district saves money by not having to do its own personnel work, and that since while teachers are TFA corps members they are at the bottom of the pay scale, they are cheaper than keeping teachers whose pay rises with experience (and might I add that experience usually means reaching a higher level of competence, at least more than a first or second year teacher has).
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How about this for spending millions?
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57582908/oklahoma-offers-pre-k-model-for-nation/
George Kaiser made his money on oil. He now uses it to fund pre-k school for children in Oklahoma. Can TFA match this success?
“A decade-long study led by Georgetown University professor William Gormley found distinct advantages for Oklahoma pre-K kids upon entering kindergarten.
“Students who participated in the school-based pre-K program in Tulsa are substantially ahead of their peers in every respect: nine months ahead in reading skills, seven months ahead in writing skills, and five months ahead in math skills,” Gormley said.
“Disadvantaged children benefit the most,” he said. “Hispanic children whose parents speak Spanish at home experience some of the biggest improvement.”
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I can counter over $1 billion with only $1 million by proper leveraging and by having enough critical mass to advertise. It is not how much all the time but what you do with it. Jon is correct. Cost efficient is not the game they are playing it is destroying the other system. That gives opportunity. When a company changes hands or the buyer is changed that is the time for opportunity for you to fill the vacuum. Any of you done high level sales? This is a standard. One thing most do not do is more than one call. I had spreadsheets of every call and used office to remind me of when to call back daily over time. It is amazing how many I got on the 10th to 18th call. And when it is for the big time who cares how many calls. The same for these corporatist privatizers as you must realize that they are playing the long game and right now they are seeing, some as a result of Ravich’s blog, that the game is starting to crumble. Now is the time to turn up the heat and make them run backwards so fast they trip and fall. Study warfare and the “Art of War” and then you will understand where they are coming from. How did Alexander the Great win battles when he was overwhelmed by vastly greater numbers on the other side. Never say impossible unless completely impossible. This is not impossible. You had better understand the game your opponent is playing also or you lose.
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TFA is the right answer to the wrong question answered by the wrong people.
Changing undergraduate studies, pre-service education, induction of new teachers, and perceptions of teaching is the right answer by the right people to the right question.
The Wrong Question:
How can schools get quick results (albeit regurgitated low cognitive information and skills?
The Wrong people: Politicos, corporate CEOs, and rock star “educators” seeking quick, temporary results at less cost with more acclaim and headlines?
Answer: TFA
The Right Question:
How do we get the highest quality of academic depth of knowledge and as deep thinking, problem solving, and skills of every student?
The Right People:
Academics, professional practitioners, and community partners with the courage to replace the 20th century factory model of teacher training and one-size-fits-all compensation with a 21st century systemic model of continuous professional learning and modernized compensation plans (because the current tax supported approach is not sustainable) that results in order t
Answer: 1) Teachers hired by those who acknowledge teaching is an art, a gift, a calling AND a science AND a profession; 2) Transform undergraduate teacher training programs with a medical model of intense learning and observation, internships, teaching schools and PDSs (professional development schools (like teaching hospitals), and 3) transform one-size-fits-all defined teachers with opportunity for career development, continued professional learning, and periodic reaffirmation and re-commitment to the profession along with demonstrated keeping up with teaching standards (knowing the curriculum, technology, special education, etc.).
So, yes, Teach for Awhilers have a role. They are motivated, spirited, service oriented students eager to make a difference who could have a place in schools with a vision of learning that exceeds passing tests. The problem, however, is a corporate, charter, business model that presumes: 1) their work must be scripted and paced; 2) they are willing to work until burnout; 3) their pay must be minimal; 4) they are not staying for more than thre to five years or the business model will bust(keep costs low and no pensions to worry about); and 5) learning is defined as low cognitive, E.D. Hirsch-like, flash carded, and regurgitated.
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It also appears Wendy’s version of TFA has little to do with teaching and learning…she has mentioned creating leaders who will lead a revolution in American schools. Those particular words…lead a revolution were on her site for a while. She may have toned it down
She is evidently very proud of Huffman, Rhee and White. Most informed parents, taxpayers, citizens and teachers are horrified by these self-serving, overly-confident, pompous liars.
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I agree with many of your suggestions about changes in teacher training.
Would you say that one-size-fits-all schools are as large a problem as one-size-fits-all defined teachers?
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If you want to know what makes a great teacher, you ask a great teacher. Instead, we listen to everyone else. How to create great teachers? Mentoring and apprenticeship has worked for centuries. Successful business people have mentors in their careers. Skilled trades utilize mentors. Doctors have long residencies. Instead, America demonizes our valuable veteran teachers and actively initiates policies that force them out. Too many “reformers” view education as a line item cost instead of an investment.
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THE BOTTOM LINE is, despite their flowery language and their rhetoric, it is all lies. They do not respect the profession…staying in the classroom for life is viewed as a low level position. If you were truly motivated you would move up. They don’t respect us and they lie every time they falsely praise “great teachers”. Essentially, Rhee, Obama, Duncan, Gates, Kopp, Broad, White, Bloomberg…this list is endless, are full of shit.
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Linda, I took what you said here and your name etc and posted it in the comments section of my facebook.
As you said it above I could not have said it better…thanks, Elin
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There are thousands of us out there that need to be heard. If my letter lights a fire under many I will be one happy man.
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I can’t really talk to this particular conversation. I just keep thinking as to WHY there are so many young people going for interviews and they’re texting, taking cell phone calls, and even bringing their parents along to help them through. Afterward, these “helicopter parents” follow up, negotiate and have the conversations. So let me ask this questions. What kind of teachers and parents are we, that we haven’t even been able to raise a generation of young people who can’t hold a conversation? The system’s broken, and we know it. Everyone can be the best at what they can do, but musical chairs has a point. At the end of the day, there is potential, but unless we put that potential together with a future workforce that can function, it’s not about induction of teachers, who is on what side, teachers being the problem, administrators being the problem, reformers being the problem. We’re all so busy pointing a finger at each other, that our kids grow up to be young adults that can’t hold a conversation for 20 to 30 minutes. This whole argument is RIDICULOUS.
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“I can’t really talk to this particular conversation.This whole argument is RIDICULOUS.”
Then why add to it in this way?
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Seems like when they can’t handle the classroom anymore, they need a state to remove all the certification standards and allow vouchers so they can still have a job. Can we say “Ivy League Welfare” anybody?
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Even when we have articulate teachers of recognized excellence, it is rare that they are listened to on matters of educational policy, even when they try to be heard. Again I point people at Teachers Should Be Seen and Not Heard, a powerful piece by 2009 National Teacher of the Year Anthony Mullen.
Before I retired I was considered a teacher of some skill. I was nationally known for the writing I did about education – on blogs, in the New York Times and Washington Post, for Education Week / Teacher. I had direct access to members of the House Committee on Education and to several Senators. I was unusual in my access. Even so, I could get an audience, but could not really have that much of an impact.
I once had a conversation with a then sitting governor and noted the National Governors Association had had a summit on education where each Governor brought a business leader. He acknowledged that. I asked why each had not brought a teacher. He was gobsmacked, and admitted neither he nor any other governor of whom he was aware had even considered that possibility.
In the early drafting of Common Core State Standards teachers were realistically not included.
In the drafting of many of the tests that have been being used improperly for high stakes, teachers have not been given a chance to point out problems with individual items or with the overall construction of the test.
While teachers and their unions are attacked by some who wish to destroy both public schools and unions, it is rare that teachers have that much of a say either in the hiring or the supervision of other teachers, unions are increasingly restricted in the subjects they can address and they are lucky if they can guarantee due process for their members.
There is an old saying that you get what you pay for.
We as a society have been too reluctant to pay for excellent teaching, and far to willing to pay for other things that have a track record of not improving learning even by their own standards of test scores.
If I may quote a great American who just turned 94, Pete Seeger, written in a somewhat different context, when will we ever learn?
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Gee, it’s almost as if there was some other agenda at work.
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Ken, one thing I’ve wondered about is, do people in general think teaching is not that big of a deal because they themselves have experienced lots of teachers? “I’ve had a lot of teachers, so I too could teach”?
Perhaps it’s different than lawyers and doctors because, while some people might have taken First Aid in Girl Scouts or Boy Scouts, it’s not like they’ve experienced doctors or lawyers on a daily basis. Thus, they hold those professions on a higher level because they haven’t directly experienced those professions very much.
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The “Social Unrest” of the 60’s was the result of EDUCATION. Lesson: Educated People
are less compliant with the “Ruling Class”. Solution: SCHOOL the people, STOP educating them. School them so they don’t notice decisions disguised as Democracy continue minority control over the majority. School them for the “Market”. School them to know their place. School them to believe the US market belongs to the world. School them into illusury salvation, perpetuate the themes and myths of concocted authority.School them into unflinching loyality (FUNDING) for the “people that count”, the guardians of bureaucracy.which produce one cog at a time , for the bureaucratic machine
of superiority and subordination. School them into the false premise of equality, ignoring that power demands inequality. School them, make all the “Lambs” market ready, Sheeple waiting to see how the drove is going, before they can move. The Government
and market thrive on YOUR Social Engineering.
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