I have written many posts about the scam and sham of cyber charters. They are highly profitable for their owners and investors, but study after study shows that they provide a poor education. Whatever their value for adults, whatever the value of an online course for a rural student, the cyber charters are a pitiful substitute for a real school with real teachers and real students and real human interaction.
Now comes the inside scoop from a teacher in a cyber charter school. It is very thing it’s critics feared and worse. It is all about making money for the corporation. It is bad education. That is, if you care about children or education or the future of our society.
Diane Ravitch's blog 
I certainly agree that online classes are a poor substitute for well run dynamic classes with highly motivated students and teachers. But the are perhaps a good option when the alternative is no appropriate class for the student, as is sometimes the case in rural areas.
Too bad there aren’t any highly motivated teachers. My kids spend the majority of the day copying notes from a smart board. As far as testing the Pssa the Brick and mortar schools TEACH the exam. Cyber schools out preform the pathetic excuse for educations that our children are subjected today
Dan, cyber schools are a Ponzi scam. They outperform no other schools.
It’s very difficult to remain a highly motivated teacher in a classroom full of students who are on cellphones, and have no desire or motivation to learn. Or working in a building where the Administration is more concerned about public perception than school climate and student discipline. Public school is a place where I had to “perform” everyday, regardless of how I was treated by administration and students. I had to be highly motivated, energetic, inventive, creative, and then I was pigeonholed and required to teach to a test. All the while, students were allowed to be insubordinate, belligerent, and irresponsible, yet I was told I HAD to pass them. There is plenty wrong with the public school classroom. Before anyone on this blog should post about how bad cyber school is, they should probably do a little research. And, as I said in a previous post, not all schools are the same. Just because a school is offered online, does not mean it is inferior to a brick and mortar school. I have worked in both a traditional and a cyber classroom. While there are benefits and drawbacks to both, I will concede that in a virtual world, I feel much more accomplished and motivated because the students are not nearly as reluctant to try. Let me ask you this, if cyber schools are so bad and they are only in it for the money, then why are some of the most prestigious schools in the country i.e. Johns Hopkins, and Stanford University, offering students either an entire high school program, or a gifted and talented program, which is entirely virtual? Would such aforementioned schools really put their “name” on a terrible program? I think not.
Stephanie, taking a course online is not as bad as a for profit school, which is a scam.
I agree with you Stephanie! As for Diane, all schools are for profit and a scam, Cyber and Brick and Mortar. If you are not of the “elite” status your child is left behind as an “Undesirable”. It is very sad that education is now a ruthless business At my district school the admin and LS teachers physically and mentally hurt my son because he was temporarily in a wheelchair from a major surgery. Because of this I was allowed to come into the school to assist, what I witnessed was horrifying. The LS teacher told my son to lie to me about what she was teaching and the principal made him do steps his first day back after major surgery, he had a note explaining no steps, yet the principal ignored it. The surgeon said that act could have placed him in a wheelchair forever. Not to mention we were led to believe he was being taught at the grade level only to find out the LS teacher gave him paper and crayons in 7th grade to draw all day while she went to the Teachers Munchons, leaving her class unattended. I walked into this situation to retrieve my son for an appointment. She also placed him in an office, totally isolated without any way to get help, use the bathroom or eat for four days straight while at school. She got to keep her job and we had to find a cyber charter school. The cyber school has now created “DATA” that will never let my son learn like his peers because the profit on his head is worth more to the greedy Brick and mortar and Cyber schools than his learning. Once in High School that is to total end to education, It is all about teaching yourself. In my experience both schools are a joke. Our education system is totally about the money and the saddest part is ….. I pay the taxes that the school pays the lawyers to defend them against not providing a proper education. Sick Sick Sick, my son learns quickly but his label is a “Get out of teaching Free Card” that documents untruths. There are great teachers but all of the schools keep them quiet because they could loose money.
My question is for Diane, How do we change this so the students benefit from a proper education? I have called on local Government and they are in the pockets of the school. What is your proposal to regulate cyber and brick and mortar schools and hold them accountable?
Well written. I have taught in both a brick and mortar and cyber school.
These “teachers” in online schools are really little more than call center operators, and their treatment and working conditions reflect that idea.
I teach in a cyber school. I have a Bachelor of Arts in English and a Master of Education with certification as a Reading Specialist. I taught in a “brick and mortar” school for 7 years. I can assure you that I am not a call center operator. In addition, for those who are unaware, just as much planning, preparation and teaching occurs in a cyber school as does in a traditional classroom. In fact, I am able to teach more in a cyber school because there is less classroom disruption. For those who are reading this post, do not judge a book by its cover. Not all cyber schools fit into one category, which is similar to the idea that not all students do either.
Stephanie, read the 10 am post EST. Your students are pawns in a for profit scam. They don’t learn and they don’t graduate at the same rate as kids in real schools.
Thanks for sharing your experience, Stephanie.
Joe, I am being bombarded by trolls from Milken’s K12 Inc. You are the first person to thank one of them for supporting that sham moneymaker
I work for a state run non-profit public cyber school. We are mandated by state laws and regulations and required to do everything that a brick and mortar school does. We are accountable to the state for testing and we receive funds from the state just like our brick and mortar counterparts. This is why I said in my first post…not all cyber schools are the same and they should not all be lumped together. In addition, I also teach an online gifted program for one of those prestigious schools I mentioned. Both of these cyber programs are rigorous and students and teachers are held accountable. I have encountered students in the virtual world whose intelligence and motivation far exceed their brick and mortar peers. How can you justify that cyber schools are a money-making scam when they are not all the same?
Incidentally, since I did teach in a traditional classroom for 7 years prior to transitioning to a virtual one, I can tell you that the educational system is flawed. Students are passed on without regard to their ability…simply because we have to “watch” our failure rate. In the cyber world, students are not just passed on until they acquire the necessary skills to move to the next level.
Diane, having experienced being bombarded by trolls, as well as called numerous names, I know what that is like. Not pleasant. However, we do have free speech.
I’ve also written explicitly in the Ed Week conversations with Deborah Meier that there are some crooks and charlatans in the charter world.
I strongly agree that some cyber schools are not well run and some bricks and mortar schools – both district and charter – are not well run. I also think some do great things – based on comments from students and parents – as well as school level information.
Joe,
I follow the research. Students in cyber charters lose 180 days of instruction in math for 180 days in a cyber charter.
As for free speech, who is blocking critics of TFA and charters on YouTube? This blog has more freedom of speech than any other, including Facebookand Youtube
Yes, I agree that you permit a lot of freedom of speech here.
People from a variety of perspectives block people on their blogs or face book. You, Diane are much more open to different view points than some other people.
As noted, the research you cited describe schools “on average” that were included in the sample. There are some fine cyber schools as there are some terrible ones. On average, students in cyber schools make less progress.
As mentioned in previous posts, I think we’ve wasted a lot of money on research designed to show that a district or a charter is better. It’s like asking, which gets better gas mileage, a leased or rented car.
Research shows that cybercharters, on average, produce no learning. Their test scores are lower than real schools, and their graduation rates are abysmal. They are very profitable, especially for non-educators who make millions, like Michael Milken, whose K12 Inc chain is the largest in the country and is listed on the NY Stock Exchange.
Agreed!
Stephanie,
I understand. I have a B.A. in English and an M.Ed. I currently teach in a cyber school. I have no down time. Between planning lessons and calling parents, calling students, going to meetings, and tutoring students as they come in to the learning center, I do not even usually take lunch.Oh, and my commute is 70 mins each way. I love that I don’t have to deal with classroom management, but motivating a cyber school student is tough! What do you do to motivate your cyber school students to complete their work?
Thanks,
I absolutely agree with you. The old methods of education models were, Traditional where the student went to each class then had an assignment to complete after introduction to the content, then came Block scheduling for the longer class time.
Now the cyber schools are using what they call a “Flipped Classroom Model”, which is basically a teach yourself and then only come to class if you have a specific question model.
So yes , cyber school is now a call center. This Flipped Classroom is awful.
Cyber Cheater Schools
The teacher says everyone cheats on the online tests. Very little learning is occuring.
Their is probably a good reason why the ACT and SAT are not taken online at home.
I agree that the effectiveness of on line learning depends a great deal on the individual student’s effort and the desirability depends on the availability of alternative modes of instruction.
I’m sure that there are niches where online learning is beneficial. But not as a general education tool. As the author noted, there is no way of knowing who is actually doing the work. I know more than a few people who could not pass their college math requirement. They took an online math class and had a smart, math-talented friend do the work.
We run E2020 at our school for kids that struggle with math. We have teachers in the room. The kids generally do not like it and our results have been less than impressive. I asked what the problem was and why inconsistencies happened. I was told that t depended on the teacher.
For the most part, online is education on the cheap. And customers get what they pay for.
WOW! It’s no wonder that reformers don’t want cyber school students taking state tests! None of them would pass based on this horrid article.
My most recent experience with online education:
A few months ago, while I was getting my hair cut, the woman who owns the shop ( a long time friend) introduced me to another client. The other client (a grown woman…a law enforcement officer ), wanted to finish her Bachelors degree and had enrolled at LSU doing exclusively online classes.
She needed “help” with biology, so the shop owner thought I could help her.
I offered tutoring…nope, she didn’t have the time.
I offered my AP materials (study guides, practice tests, etc) Nope, she didn’t want more “paper work”.
I was becoming quite uncomfortable.
Finally she got to the point, she wanted me to log in and take the tests for her.
She assured me it didn’t matter, because she was not trying to be a biologist, she just wanted her BA.
Me: Nope…You don’t have enough money to by my self esteem.
But I am sure she eventually found someone.
At my university the education school is leading the way for online degrees.
I operate a tutoring business in chemistry and physics for college students in introductory classes. This practice is so common now that when I make an initial contact with a potential client, the first thing I do is explain that I am only interested in helping them learn, not in taking their tests. Well over half are not interested as soon as they hear that.
This is important information. It is great that this teacher is willing to give us an insider’s view of what is actually going on in the world of Cyber Charter Schools. I would imagine that this particular corporate run charter school is similar to most of the cyber schools out there today. Unfortunately I have a 16 year old niece in PA enrolled in one of these schools. I could hope that she is one of the few students actually doing the work and getting some benefit from the classes, but after reading the description of the curriculum being used I am afraid that she is not getting anything resembling a good education.
My niece is a child who missed lots of school over the years because of health and school anxiety issues. My sister thought that the virtual school idea might work for her. From what I have heard, it doesn’t sound like her virtual school experience is going to lead her to a valid high school diploma or a future that involves higher education. I fear that an already vulnerable young woman is not receiving the kind of guidance and support that she would be getting if she were enrolled in a more traditional school setting.
My niece has been involved in a children’s community theater program where she has been studying voice, dance and stage craft since she was eight years old. Perhaps she has her sights set on a career in the theater, I don’t know. I worry that this cyber school experiment is harmful to children like my niece. The fact that greedy and incompetent adults should be able to make a profit off of the harm that they are inflicting on students is shameful.
I am currently taking online classes for my CIS degree. I have been in Cyber Schooling since my Junior year in high school. I don’t see any difference in the curriculum, and I went to a Catholic School that was considered a College preparation school. It all depends on the student, if they are going to cheat and take the easy route through it, or get the most you can out of your education and take it seriously. When I was in traditionally school, I had all F’s and was suspended from sports, that is when I decided to go to Cyber School. Once I graduated from Cyber School, I ended up going to college at a community college in my town. I finished and got my degree there with a 4.0 GPA. I had teachers tell me, they would put money on me to go against top students from Major Universities. So all in all, it depends on the student and their motivation. Some can do Cyber School and others can’t. But there is no difference between traditional school and cyber schools curriculum. The only difference I see, is that if a student is excelled in a certain subject, Cyber School can put them in the right class they need to be to meet their level, unlike traditional schools can’t really do much most of the time.
Wow, what a horror show.
I once worked at a cyber charter and my experience was very similar to the OP. I started working there (8 years ago) for the same reason as the OP– it thought it was the future. Shortly thereafter i learned it was nothing but a call center job. You don’t really need a degree to be a cyber school teacher.
I don’t believe cheating was as rampant at the time (8 years ago) but I did push to establish a standard to prevent cheating. So often we were askedby parents, teachers and administration to “reset tests” so kids could take them over again. Like the OP, the kids could see all the answers and the retake was almost always 100%!
I really knew it was time to go when they continued to hold us accountable (and punish us) for kids who never logged on, never did any work and were out right failing and refused any tutoring or intervention assistance. Administration was extremely slow to disenroll these students and suddenly my eyes were opened to the world of charters and the “business of education”. Admin would tell us to “send them an email” to a family that never logged in or “keep calling them” as if we hadn’t done that 20 times before.
The only families that were truly successful in the cyber charters when I worked there were the families that already homeschooled with actively involved parents.Cyber school just provided them a free computer.
Cyber school provided the home schooler with a free computer but you left out the best part. The corporation collects tuition from the state for every home schooled student.
One of the constant themes on this discussion is how much some people dislike generations. Yet we’re told on the basis of assertions made by one person, that “an insider reveals what happens in cyber charter schools.”
There are some poorly run cyber schools. Are all of you willing to condemn all of them? Do you have evidence to condemn all of them?
What about the growing # of district public school students who are taking on-line courses? The New Hampshire Virtual Charter school has about 100 full time, and several thousand part-time students. The part time students are taking those courses with the permission of local districts.
Here’s a column that will run in the next week in various newspapers describing some collaborations between several district high schools and colleges. Some of these collaborations involve high school students taking on-line college courses.
http://hometownsource.com/2013/03/28/new-high-schoolcollege-collaborations-are-win-win-win/
Criticizing all public schools, or all public school teachers makes no sense. I’d suggest the same approach to cyber schools, whether state run, district run, charter run or university run.
Public schools that are incorporating “blended learning” – that is, computer based instruction that is supervised by a live teacher in the same room – are a quite different thing than the homeschool cyber charters, where the kids are wholly unsupervised by anyone other than a parent, and where the family gets a free computer.
I would be thrilled to hear the story of a quality, successful cyber school. I have looked, by the way.
Our district is trying to pilot some blended online learning basically as a way to build some quality independent study and expand our course offerings. It is shocking how difficult it is to find quality content that is accredited that we can work with. Again, we are actively seeking these materials. The community college online offerings are the best so far, but they don’t provide the range of courses we would like. In any case, it’s not new: California high school students have been able to take community college courses for credit for decades.
So feel free to dig in and to find and highlight the examples where it is truly working. The article that you wrote that you linked to was disappointingly brief.
I think it is important to compare online courses to the available alternatives for the students. One of my son’s friends was learning linear algebra by watching Gilbert Strang’s MIT open coursewhere class. Was it better than taking the actual class at MIT? I think not. Was it better than taking the live classes available at the high school? I think the clear answer was yes.
Thanks for your comments and questions. Glad to share info and hope to learn from your experiences.
I don’t think the cyber approach is right for all students. Some will do far better with the blended approach that you described. There also are instances of cyber schools that have not done a good job of accounting for students, and from which a number of students withdrew. Some students appear to benefit from taking AP or other advanced courses not offered in their local community, some appear to benefit from credit recovery. But this is NOT a blanket endorsement of all cyber schools or an endorsement of the idea for all students.
Here are a few examples of cyber schools that have information that may be useful to you.
1. Cyber Village – a mixed blended and cyber charter public school in Minnesota. Minnesota Dept of Education has ranked this school as among the top 10% of district and charter public schools working with many students from low income families
http://www.cybervillageacademy.org/
2. Florida Virtual School – a state operated virtual school (neither district or charter)
https://www.fldoe.org/schools/virtual-schools/faqs.asp
Here’s some research about the school:
http://www.flvs.net/areas/aboutus/Pages/Research.aspx
Students can attend part time or full time
3. A Harvard Education Newsletter described how some virtual schools are adding more direct connections with students, as you mentioned:
http://www.hepg.org/hel/article/506#home
4. New Hampshire Virtual School
NH State Dept officials recently told me that about About 100 students attend full time, more than 9000 students take some courses, part time. This is a charter public school
The column I posted was short because 500-550 words is the amount of space provided by the newspapers for which I write. My goal is to be helpful, and to encourage people such as you to ask questions, and seek additional info. In 500-550 words I can provide a complete, comprehensive report.
Thanks again for the questions and looking forward to learning more about your work.
Two quick points. In the first sentence in the post above, I meant to use the word “generalizations”, not generations. Sorry.
Speaking of generalizations, the dissatisfied teacher starts off as follows:
“When I first started working at a cyber school I thought they were the future of education, and I still do. But the problem is that they are only started by for-profit companies who try to run them like businesses. So the top priority becomes customer satisfaction instead of student learning. The results are hard to measure, but I fear that they are worse than anyone suspects.”
Does anyone here agree with this person that cyber schools are the future of education? I don’t. Well regulated ones (and that’s a longer discussion) ought to be an option. But THE future? I don’t think so.
Another generalization” “they are only started by for-profit companies who try to run them like businesses.” Factually not true. A number of state governments have started charters that are run as part of the state department of education, or some other form of state government. Some local districts have started cyber schools.
Sweeping, and sometimes inaccurate generalizations concern me.
Joe,
I am sorry for the generalizations. I was in a hurry to write this because I have so much to say but the post was getting too long so I submitted it without fully explaining some of the things that I wrote. Of course there are a plethora of cyber and quasi-cyber schools being started and closed every day. And I cannot possibly know how each one of them is run. But every time I look more closely at one them I find that they are using the curriculum and/or services of one of the big national for-profit companies. Not just the smaller cyber schools, but also the ones started by public schools. And even if all they are offering is a few online courses, they are usually one of ours. The reason for this is that it is really hard to create a cyber school from scratch. The schools or districts that try to do it on their own usually fail or never get bigger than a few dozen students. For example, one of the cyber schools you mention in another comment as the very best and a non-profit run by the state, Florida Virtual School, has become a Connections Academy school in order to become a full time school. Connections Academy is a for-profit national cyber school just like the one I describe in my post. So, yes, I made a generalization, but every time I look into a small or public or non-profit cyber school I find something like Florida Virtual. http://www.connectionsacademy.com/florida-virtual-school/home.aspx
As for me thinking that cyber schools are the future of education, that is my opinion, not a generalization. I would like to, and will, explain myself, but as you say that is for a “longer discussion.” That is why I did not include it, because the post was long enough.
What concerns me is that you do not deny any of the points I make in my post. You attack the messenger instead of the message. You suggest that I am a nut because I make sweeping, inaccurate generalizations. This is based on one innocuous phrase in the introduction of a five page post. Both of your quotes are from the introduction, did you even read the rest of the post? You would have seen clearly that I am talking about one school, my school. I am not trying to fool the reader into thinking that I am detailing all cyber schools.
It would be more constructive if you asked me what I think a successful cyber school would look like. You are clearly knowledgeable about public schools and charter schools, but you don’t know cyber schools like I do. You should listen to what I have to say.
Thanks to Dr. Ravitch and to oneroomschool for expanding and clarifying their comments. A few points.
My overall questions to both of you are:
What would you recommend to state legislators? Close all cyber schools? Close all cybers that are operated under contract with a for-profit? Eliminate this as an option? Continue experimenting? Or ???
* Which of these statements does oneroom school believe is true? “Cyber schools are the future of education” or “cyber charters are a pitiful substitute for a real school with real teachers and real students and real human interaction.” The first statement comes from the first paragraph of your blog. The second comes from Dr. Ravitch’s summary.
It is not clear from oneroom school;s blog why you believe they are the future of education if you think they are really bad.
* Yes, I do regard the assertion that “cyber schools are the future of education” as a generalization. I also disagree with it. I believe cybers can be good for some youngsters, as I believe that blended can be good for some. These beliefs come from conversations with individual students, parents and research reviews. I’d also readily acknowledge there are problems with some cyber schools, both those operated as district as as charters.
* I’ve talked with cyber charter students who assert that their lives were much happier and in one case was “saved” because of the school. These are youngsters who were harassed and bullied and were not resolve problems in the school. One says she strongly considered suicide. She found that the cyber approach was far better for her. Other students have made public statements that this individualized approach was far better for them because of health problems which prevented them from attending a school regularly.
Other students have made public statements that the cyber approach allowed them to work during the day because their family circumstances were very difficult, and they wanted to help support their families.
Another student explained that the individual attention she received in a cyber helped give her the courage to report to authorities that her father was abusing her. He was subsequently prosecuted and put in jail.
I take these statements submitted seriously. Do you? Do you know any students who have benefited from a cyber school?
I’ve also reviewed other documents that describe, for example, responses from parents,s students and school administrators to the New Hampshire Virtual School. This has about 100 full time students and more than 6,000 part time students. They point to a variety of benefits.
I don’t think cyber education is for everyone. I think some people benefit from taking a few courses, but will do best when much of their education is in a traditional classroom. I readily acknowledge there are serious issues of cheating…something that’s true in some bricks and mortar public schools too (I mentioned the cheating scandal at one of the most elite “public” schools in NYC.)
So oneroom and Dr. Ravitch, what would you recommend to state legislators? Close all cyber schools? Close all cybers that are operated under contract with a for-profit? Eliminate this as an option? Continue experimenting?
Reactions from others are of course, welcome.
Anyone who wants to know anything at all about K12–which is trying to infiltrate 18 Chicago suburban districts (all of whose board members & administrators have done their homework and know just how much FOR-profit this virtual “school” is)–need only Google it on Wikipedia. Tells the scathing truth–who, what, why, how– short & to the point.
This great investigative article in the NY Times tells you what you want to know about K12.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/13/education/online-schools-score-better-on-wall-street-than-in-classrooms.html?pagewanted=all
My son took a K12 administered AP class. Not as good as his average live class, but the flexibility in scheduling allowed him to take physical chemistry at the university. Probably a good trade off.
My volunteer activity brings me in contact with a very wide range of people. I have discussed the issue of online education, credits and degrees with a number of young adults who are in community college and/or taking online classes. Whenever I suggest to them that there could be problems in identifying plagiarism and cheating they look at me like I am a complete idiot, i.e., of course even a fool should understand that this is a serious problem when the stakes are high and there is nobody to monitor the activity.
When a problem is this obvious…
Yes, there are serious issues of plagarism and cheating in many parts of education. Some students cheat on college entrance tests:
Then there was the “widespread” problem of cheating at a NYC public school to which only students who score well on standardized tests can be admitted.
Cheating is a problem.
Joe,
Why are you defending the indefensible? The cyber charters are homeschooling paid for with state funds, going to profit investors.
In the fall of his senior year in high school my older son was taking courses provided by his traditional zoned high school, the university where I teach, and a virtual class offered by another public school district in my state but subcontracted out to K12. That mix of classes seems very defensible to me, and the virtual class was an important part of the mix.
Please see my comments in response to the person whose blog you posted. My responses come in part from conversations with students who say a cyber school was extremely helpful to them.My responses also come from reviewing research. Some of which is highly critical, some of which is supportive.
I also asked a few questions including what would you recommend to state policy-makers? Would you eliminate cyber schools, whether run by districts, states, or for profits? If not, what regulations would you add, if any?
Thank you.
And Joe, I have to tell you if you’re selling newspapers pieces describing a Florida for-profit as a non-profit you’re misleading readers.
It is difficult enough for parents to navigate the charter school industry maze of interlocking for-profit, non-profits and my personal favorite scam in Ohio, the non-profit shell with the creamy profit center, where the charter advertises as a non-profit but outsources every function of the school to a FOR profit.
Just because it’s stamped “state of FL” doesn’t mean it’s non-profit.
Sent from my iPhone
My problem is who owns the data and what is the corporation doing with the data. Scary thought!
I can totally believe that the cheating is as rampant as what this teacher depicts, and it’s probably likely to be that way in all online schools. I teach in a blended classroom, and I’d guess that 25% of my students are probably cheating on every assessment we take. This is when I am right in the room, monitoring them in person, watching their screens and their bodies. There is no possible way to catch everyone, even with 30 kids in the room. Can you imagine policing 200 – 300 students like some of these online teachers have when you only “see” them on the internet?
We’ve had large for-profit online chains in Ohio for years. They have a horrible reputation in rural areas, and they’ve earned every bit of it.
They were used in this rural area not to supplement curriculum but instead as a dumping ground for kids with chaotic home lives and inadequate supervision. The kids who didn’t show up for school, in other words.
Sadly, THOSE rural kids are the kids who are the most isolated and the least motivated. The kids who MOST need one place they can go that is orderly and positive and safe.
One of the most interesting things to me as an
Ohio public school parent watching the school
reform industry nationally is watching as othe states try the same “reforms” that have been failing here for 15 years. It is amazing to see these folks sell the same shot they sold here, but with a national label.
I feel compelled to leave comments as a charter school director who works in a blended learning cyber school. I have worked in this environment for 12 years as a teacher and administrator. I have worked with many talented educators to create an incredible charter school with face to face campus opportunities several days per week and no canned courses from large for profit curriculum companies. Each student has an adviser called a learning manager who meets with them face to face or virtually weekly, based on the schedule of the student.
I know where I work is an amazing place to learn for students and many of them would not have graduated without my school as I hear their stories every day.
If you want to hear more about a high quality blended online charter school let me know-they do exist!
I would like to thank Diane Rav for hosting this blog and posting her intentionally inflammatory comments in order to bring out the intelligence of this topic offered by Joe Nathan and teachereconomist. Well played, Diane…well played. PennLive just named its “Best and Brightest” of 2013 and yes, a cyber student was one of the 20 chosen. In a similar approach to teachingeconomist’s son (posted on March 29) this young man has taken an active role in his own education, attending a mix of public school, college classes, and cyber school at different and overlapping times.
With every learning tool, resource, and class-type available today, blaming any one school for your or your child’s poor education is just another way of saying “I’m too lazy to assume responsibility–someone else should.” In that case, go back to your facebook and reality shows and leave education legislation decisions to “someone else.”
Diane Ravitch, where is your research? What sources did you use? My cyber school students would have cited sources. Do you even know how write in APA format? MLA format? My students do. My students work too hard for people like you to bash all over the internet. Shame on you, shame on you!
FYI: Speaking with one disgruntled employee does not count as research. But nice try! If you did that for one of my projects I would take you into my virtual classroom and work on your research skills with you, one on one!!
Also, not all cyber schools are for profit. I work for a non-profit cyber school. It is amazing and we, by law, follow the same state standards as every other school district in PA.
Furthermore, state testing is done on site. People who say that the tests are done at home without a state certified teacher present are misinformed.
Overall, Diane, I will not hold your ignornace to the topic against you. But be asured, you are wrong.
Thanks for concerning youself with the education of cyber students. If you want more details you should visit a center and talk to passionate teachers. Your views might change, you may even start supporting us!
Have a great day!
Nicole, there is lots of first-rate research on virtual charter schools.
They are terrible “schools.”
It is all about profit.
Not all are terrible. Some are helping a number of youngsters. Some, such as a statewide charter in New Hampshire, serve about 100 students full time, and thousands part time, in collaboration with districts that have chosen to work with them.
Thanks for sharing your experience Nicole.
“Do you even know how write in APA format? MLA format? My students do.”
You made a total buffoon of yourself with this level of arrogance and condescension. Ms. Ravitch’s professional and educational credentials are well known to anyone who has seriously studied this issue. (That leaves out your typical cyber school employee.)
Back to your diploma mill.
Wow, what a way to address a former U.S. Assistant Secretary of Education. So disrespectful. Any teaching vet knows: listen to those who have fought (and are fighting) the good fight for many decades on your behalf.
Now wait just a minute, not all cyber schools are bad, I graduated from pa cyber charter and I leaened theee at a higher level than when I was in my old school, they used every cent they obtained from my school district to teach me. It all dependson the student and how willing they are to learn, because of pa cyber I am leaving for basic train for the marine corps next month and I will be attending penn state university next year
“Now wait just a minute, [CS] not all cyber schools are bad, [CS] I graduated from pa [CAP] cyber charter and I leaened [SP] at a higher level than when I was in my old school, [CS] they used every cent they obtained from my school district to teach me. It all dependson [SP] the student and how willing they are to learn, [CS] because of pa [CAP] cyber I am leaving for basic train [SP] for the marine corps [SP] next month and I will be attending penn state university [CAP] next year [PN] ”
Literate enough for the Marine Corps but not for Regular Freshman English at Penn State. I suspect you’ll be placed in Remedial (non-credit). But that’s OK. The Marine Corp is a good thing and so is college. But let’s not pretend that your cyber FULLY prepared you.
(Or is this some kind of ironic joke?)
Thanks guys! I have been reading all your comments for my research paper on cyberschools!
Just ran across this article and have to say – WOW! While there are, no doubt, some cyber charter schools that prefer to scam rather than provide, the same can be said for brick-and-mortar schools. I don’t know what research this author did for the biased article that doesn’t tell the whole story of cyber charter schools, but as a guardian of a child who attends a cyber school, I have to say that her statements are wrong.
My granddaughter not only gets the regular education services and supplies, but she also has Special Education helpers, including a SpecEd teacher, a speech therapist, and a Title I One reading specialist. Her teachers are real. They’re PA certified teachers. She gets interactions with students (who, btw, are also real) through the many field trips. more field trip opportunities than are offered in a brick-an-mortar school.
So before you trash ALL cyber schools based on your quite limited experience, be a good author and do some real research. Find out about the many schools available and the good ones vs the bad ones. That’s what I have to do before choosing one. It should be done before writing an article about it.
Peggy P, you must have very low expectations. The last evaluation found that students in cyber charters lose 180 days of math instruction for every 180 days of school.
Glad to hear that your youngster had a good experience, Peggy – whether in a district or charter public school.
Lots of money is being spent these days to convince people to believe certain things about schools – whether district or charter. Always good to hear directly from a parent or grandparent about what’s working well in their family.
My son took 3-4 classes through VLACS in NH and they were a lot more challenging and taught him more than most of his classes he took throughout high school (including several Honors and AP Courses in Math specifically). He went to a Prep School in NH and I can say for certain that if I had to do it all over again, I would convince him to get his entire HS education through VLACS on-line! It was better than our local high school and better than the Prep School that costs over $50,000 per year. The prep school set him back behind where he would have been if he had stayed in a virtual school in my opinion. Brick/mortar education is the real scam these days! (usually filled with arrogant, overpaid teachers who are more concerned with indoctrinating kids socially than teaching and, conversely, filled with disrespectful kids with little remaining respect for authority, and parents who condone them). I would say parents who care should strongly consider on-line education if their kids can still be involved in local sports and other social outlets (the one drawback I see to on-line).
Thanks for the continuing discussion re cyber schools. I’ve heard from parents and students who’ve had wonderful, and terrible experiences in cyber schools. They vary. Averages can be misleading, whether for district, charter, bricks and mortar or cyber.
That’s why I think we should be learning and sharing what the most effective schools do – whether district or charter, cyber or bricks & mortar.
Just a semantic observation from my now infrequent visits to this blog. The word “profit” still seems to be the worst pejorative word one can use in the education universe, regardless of whether the entity offering the educational services does a good job (anecdotes about some cyber schools) or not (Diane’s research on math in cyber schools).
Likewise, the term “non-profit” seems to confer a purifying angelic aura upon whatever education service providers it is attached to, whether they do a good job (most suburban schools) or not (many urban schools).
The continuing blind irrational socialist bias on this blog hasn’t changed much, I gather. But then we all love Bernie anyway, don’t we?
Welcome back, Harlan.
Nonprofits can be as bad as for-profits, as the College Board proves. For-profits are always bad because their highest priority is profit, not children or learning.
Perhaps the dismal statistics for cyber schools have to do with the fact that some children doing cyber school are horrible students and did not want to bother going to scho and are being made to at least do it at home. Of they have been expelled etc or are pregnant etc of one of many other issues that would predispose them to bringing down the “average” represented. I am about to start my 2 youngest children with cyber school both of whom are gifted because I have become disillusioned by the public school system. My second child will be a junior and is fine to stay in public school and in fact does amazingly He is also in gifted btw and I wouldn’t dream of attempting to help him with his AP classes but I think i should be able to handle 1st and 4th grade We’ll see ☺️