When I heard about Strongsville, I thought I was reading a children’s storybook about a wonderful, all-American city, a city where all the families are happy and have nice houses, and the children play in well-equipped playgrounds, and go to wonderful schools.
Think of it: Strongsville. It evokes Wheaties and Jack Armstrong, the all-American boy, the town where everything is just fine.
But then I got this letter from a teacher:
My name is Christina Potter and I have taught in the Strongsville City Schools in Strongsville, Ohio for the last eight years.
When I was hired in Strongsville, a great community with excellent schools, many other teachers said I was lucky, and they were jealous of my new job, and during the first two years, they were right; things were great with all sides working together,and we earned Ohio’s highest ranking, Excellent with Distinction.
As time went on a division started to occur between the administration and the teachers. During our 2010 contract negotiations the school stated that times were difficult and they needed the teachers to make concessions. In good faith, and promise of a levy, we agreed to an additional two year pay freeze on top of the three years we had already taken. We also increased our medical expenses, took on an additional duty period, and agreed to work two days unpaid. Times were tough, but everyone was striving to make Strongsville great.
Then, everything went haywire. With the ink still drying on our contract, the Board tried to take the levy off the ballot but failed, so instead, they informed the community to vote the levy down. Then we learned that while the district cried broke in 2010, it spent $500,000 to hire an attorney who publicizes himself as a union breaker. Every school district in this area that has hired him has either gone on strike or threatened to. Needless to say, the teachers, who negotiated in good faith, were outraged.
When our contract ended in June 2012, the district asked for extra time before negotiating to get its finances in order, so on July 19th, the first negotiation session took place. Upon walking in, their attorney put a contract down on the table and told us it was a take it or leave it offer and refused to negotiate one item at a time. After months of failing to negotiate a contract, our Education Association declared an impasse, and a Federal Mediator came in to oversee negotiations. Here is the timeline of recent events:
1. On February 15th, 2013 the teachers of the Strongsville Education Association (SEA) overwhelmingly passed a strike authorization.
2. On February 22nd, SEA submitted a 10-day notice of our intent to strike.
3. On March 1st, I had to hand in my I.D. badge and keys and have all of my personal belongings out of the building by 3:15 p.m. After 3:15, the doors would be locked, and anyone still on school property would be arrested even though we had not taken a final strike vote; we also had another negotiation session scheduled for Saturday morning. For all intense purposes we were not on strike yet but we were being locked out of the buildings, our email accounts and our grade books.
4. On March 2nd, both negotiating teams and the School Board members met with the federal negotiator. At that time the school gave its final offer which was only slightly different than their original.
And that takes us to where we are today, on strike. Many of my fellow teachers are also Strongsville residents, who have children in the system. They fear we are destroying our great public schools by trashing the teaching profession within them, instead of working toward a settlement. They feel the Board has chosen to waste tax payer money and painted teachers as greedy; meanwhile, it has forked over another $500,000, for a total of $1 million, to an attorney instead of using the money for books and technology.
Why are we striking in the cold, wind, and snow from 5:30 a.m. to 4 p.m. We, the Strongsville teachers, feel we are not just standing for the SEA, but for all of our fellow public school teachers in the Ohio and across the nation during this statewide/national epidemic of privatizing our public schools. If this contract goes through other school districts may soon go after their teachers, and we cannot in good conscience allow that to happen. As a teacher and a parent of two, I believe in public education and its hard working teachers, who too often are the brunt of undeserved bashing.
The teachers of Strongsville will hold a rally this afternoon at 4 pm in the center of Strongsville, at the gazebo, at the corners of Pearl Rd. and Rt 82.
Diane Ravitch's blog 
I support this strike.
Breaking unions and teacher bashing is never a solution.
God help them. A local news broadcast did a story and interviewed 3 people who were against the strike and then showed a car traveling past the picket line honking and waving and said (I kid you not) “Perhaps the cars that are honking aren’t honking to support the teachers”. How’s that for objective reporting? I’m going to stop watching that channel, even though I like the weather segment.
Thanks for sharing that info. We can’t trust mogul run media to report news. Time for our own Arab spring. Please continue to reveal the propaganda and boycott that station. Thank you!
Did you really mean Arab Spring? Really?
Objective reporting?
What is that, again? I cannot seem to remember since I haven’t seen it in so long.
Good job spotting the crud, Shirley, and keep speaking up about it!
Hi Shirley, I subbed for you a few times, a long time ago, and I don’t know if you remember me, but that was my husband who responded on March 15th.You can probably figure out who he is on Cleveland.com as well.
It’s like we’re right back in the early 20th century again. Sad, very sad.
Keep the faith. From one of the Garfield refusniks.
And thank YOU, to you and your colleagues. Keep fighting the good fight.
What is her idea of a pay freeze?
2011 Potter, Christina Strongsville City Strongsville High School $59,458.00 7.50 184
2010 Potter, Christina Strongsville City Strongsville High School $57,307.00 7.50 184
2010 Potter, Christina Strongsville City Albion Middle School $42,898.00 7.50 185
Your point, Joe?
Did you miss the numbers involved in the health care/retirement/furlough days concessions, or are you unable to do simple math?
Moving forward on the salary scale while paying more for the same or less health care does not constitute a raise.
Moving forward on the salary scale while paying more into retirement for the same or less benefits does not constitute a raise.
Moving forward on the salary scale while instituting furlough days does not constitute a raise.
At best, teachers experience a wash, i.e. no raise. In some cases, however, it’s a pay cut (salary goes up at a lesser amount than the costs of the expenditures + furlough days.)
See, Joe, teachers instruct students to use complex mathematical formulas, like addition and subtraction, to determine sums and differences. What you’ve done is simply identify one such number. However, we all know looking at the whole picture defeats the message people like you are trying to make.
Move along. There’s nothing to see here.
Question Authority | Start a Movement
I guess that he’s saying that a $17k increase over 2 years is the best kind of pay freeze possible. Perhaps these numbers are inaccurate, but they at least beg some questions, don’t they?
Wilbert – yes it does require questions. I’d bet my next paycheck that there are a lot of details left out – perhaps she was part time in 2010? Perhaps the next two years include extra duty pay for coaching? Anyone who seriously believes that a teacher got a $17K pay raise over two years knows absolutely nothing about education.
Let’s presume the numbers are accurate. The change in value of a single teacher’s salary could be attributed to many factors, most of which are unknown at this time; except for of course, the salary numbers provided by Joe. We don’t have any values for the changes in health care or retirement. Furlough days are also lost wages. Teachers may have frozen their cost of living increases, step increases for experience, and/or increases for advanced degrees above their entry level, or a combination of all three. Without having access to the current contract, its subsequent MOU, or any other legal document which affected the wages of the Strongsville teachers since its inception, everything is conjecture.
Both the media and those who oppose school levies are well versed in hyperbole when describing the contractually agreed upon working conditions, wages, and benefits of teachers. Numbers are spun; information is omitted; value and respect is depreciated.
Question Authority | Start a Movement
Here is a short quote from The Plain Dealer that might shed some light on the disagreement here:
“While their salary scale has been frozen since 2007-08, teachers received annual raises until the 2011-12 school year for years of experience and additional education they received. After skipping that year, the so-called “step” increases were restored this year.
The average teacher salary in Strongsville for the 2011-12 school year was $64,540, according to the Ohio Department of Education. The median salary was $68,411.
Both sides agree that the district, like the teachers, has paid more for health care since 2008. ”
The full article is here: http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2013/03/strongsville_teachers_start_st.html
These numbers do not tell if the person took on extra duty. They also include total compensation. Often a pay freeze will not include benefits, so a items such as health insurance may increase thus it looks like pay increases. Also as another person noted staff may be required to pay more for benefits and thus net take home pay does not increase or goes down.
It appears that it was the size of the annual raises that were frozen, not pay, except for a single year.
It also should be noted that she moved from middle school to high school, so I would guess her duties were different. In my area, high schools are frequently different districts. The high school teachers typically make more than their elementary colleagues.
I think much of the confusion here concerns Christina Potter’s statement that “we agreed to an additional two year pay freeze on top of the three years we had already taken” was misunderstood by some outside K-12 public school education. Those of us outside that world took it to mean that her salary did not increase over those five years. That would be the common understanding of her statement. What I think she meant is that the size of her annual increases in salary did not increase.
Joe,
Those are probably step increases that are built into the contract that was in effect, those would not be afffected by the freeze. They would not have increased more.
Bless their hearts! I hope the community rallies around the teachers and ousts the board, fires that *%$# lawyer and turns off their t.v.
What she is saying Wilbert is, the raise you see is non-existant. In Chula Vista, Ca. we have not had a COLA raise in over 6 years. We do have our step and column raises for each year of service, but our deductions increase. I now pay over 500 dollars a month for my health care benefits. That is almost 6000.00 a year and I am single. Gas has gone up to almost 5 dollars a gallon in Ca. and not to mention the amount of money I spend on my classes because our district claims to have no funds. But the superintendent is making 250,000.00 a year with expense accounts and all of our board members are up on bribery charges. Teachers are not the enemy we are forgot and abused professionals that neither are treated, nor paid like professionals.
SEA……average salary has at least doubled since 1994 to present $64K. This reflects all raise categories ( ie basic W2, step, column, lonegvity, etc…) Only in teacher union mindset, can a step increase not be considered a raise. Also, since 1994 to present, Sville taxpayers have paid over $60Million dollars in pension pick ups for ALL district personnel(including management, administrators, bus drivers, etc..). Only 5% of Ohio school districts pay this pension pick up- which rightfully should be paid by employees. Stongsville portion is 14%……so, currently SEA employees get 24% of their pay paid directly into insolvent Ohio STRS pension fund. (btw, they are raising employee contribution levels to 14% over time and bumped min retirement age to 60 (boohoo)) before they can retire. Also now must look at top 5 years of earnings vs 3 for pensions calculation. Oh and one more thing, the 10.2% pension pick up gets included when pension calculation is tabulated—which inflates final salary by 10.2% which in turn inflates pension pay to retiree. This extra money easily exceeds $100K for 30 yr retiree.
Former Treasurer (Parkinson) called this a “hidden pay increase”. Regards to Health Care…….up to 2008, SEA paid 0.0 toward health care. Now they bitch about paying 10% or $1800 per year for family……private sector pays well over $5000 per year……for less coverage.
Lastly, consider DOUBLE DIPPERS in STRS world currently paying out $750+ million pa. Admisitrators equally guilty but at 2x the payout levels !
Ticking time bomb on Teacher Unions and all public sector unions…….their costs are simply unsustainable
TSW, do I understand you correctly that you don’t think that teachers should have an average salary of $64,000? Why not? Most have a masters’ degree. Teaching is a profession. It is a difficult and demanding job. Why are you so certain that teachers earn “too much”? Do you think teachers should be on food stamps? I don’t understand your hostility to people who do such important work. Do you get upset when you read that doctors make five or ten times as much? Are you angry at the corporate executives who are paid millions and do nothing of social value?
Many teachers who post here seem to think that administrators are over paid. Are those beliefs illegitimate as well?
I should add that my interpretation of TSW’s post is that an annual increase in salary is not typically interpreted as a pay freeze. At my university a pay freeze would mean that an employees salary next year is the same as this year. Perhaps private universities are different.
I am tired of the attacks teachers face. Since the strike I have had many people say that teachers make too much. During the school year I work 50 -60 hours a week. I spend around $2000 on materials for my classroom that are not provided by the district. I have more and more to do each year because of all of the legislation that Ohio has passed – read the waiver it is 175 and requires an inordinate about to paperwork to prove that I am doing a good job – and I am continually taking classes to keep my certification. My son was interested in becoming a high school science teacher and I have talked him out of it. In the 20 years that I have been teaching student behavior has changed, the parent support has changed and society has marked teachers as overpaid. I earn a decent wage. I will never be rich but I knew that going into this field. What I don’t understand is why it is viewed as too much? I teach children – what is more important?
Teachers are not paid like professionals because they are not professionals; they are highly skilled unionized craftsmen. A professional is a person like a doctor, or lawyer, or CPA who is licensed to practice on his own in the private market place. Teachers are employees of a state run monopoly which requires a state certificate, but that’s all. They are bureaucrats who could not make a living at their trade outside of government.
They do work incredibly hard. They do have the best interests of students at heart. But to call them professionals is to mis-label them merely for the purposes of glorifying them. Anyone who bargains collectively cannot be accurately called a professional. The general problem is that the union bargained for and the teachers accepted good wages and benefits in flush times Now the prosperous times have passed, and the school board wants give backs because it projects lower tax collections. The union can capitulate, or try to get the public to elect a different board. Or the board could, I suppose, go all charter. Or the union could dissolve itself, and each individual teacher take what he or she can get. No happy options.
Harlan, professions contribute services which benefit the community & its future sustenance. Professionals hold a fiduciary duty of trust with an asset valuable to the community. So, what’s not professional about teaching?
Teachers do struggle to govern & discipline themselves, because political powers presume to define the profession and to set the pay value for services. What would happen if teachers, like doctors, lawyers, actuaries, were able to govern themselves without nonprofessional interference? Skyrocketing salaries like lawyers, doctors, and financiers, or just more efficient & productive schools, is my best guess.
I agree that teachers could become professionals if they owned the schools in which they practiced. I’m not a lawyer, but I don’t think teachers actually have technically a “fiduciary” responsibility. That is what the Board of Education has. When teachers own the schools in which they practice and govern them democratically and take financial responsibility for their schools, I’d be willing to reconsider, but until they do that, which is to say, enter the real world of real capitalism, I consider them bureaucrats trying to extort from the taxpayers more than they are worth economically by unionizing.
Public service employees should not be unionized at all, and if they are, should only be able to bargain for wages and pensions, not work rules. No, I have to disagree with your argument, Robin. Why do you think the reform movement is out to break the unions? It’s not because their members are professionals, but because they are “labor” and have too much control over the costs of the school boards. Since unions won’t self-decertify, the strategy apparently adopted is to destroy the public schools which are the union power base. There may be unionized charters, but certainly not very many.
Lots of public school districts do a wonderful job of serving the entire range of students which come to them, and some of the specialists are certainly quasi professional, BUT the reelection of President Obama is, in my view, prima facie evidence that the public schools have “failed” in teaching the American system. The students and their parents don’t understand what the public schools actually, a government monopoly, and thus able to extort tax revenue from the public by holding children hostages.
In my book that’s kidnapping. Thus the tax revolt. Thus school downsizing, and the attack on public schools of charters and vouchers. I think it is a shame, but it IS understandable, and one of the fundamental symptoms of the “failure” of the teachers in public schools is their misuse of the word “professional” to apply to themselves. Or, at least, so I see it.
Harlan, I am a teacher and I take great insult to your statement that teachers are not professionals. I hold a master’s degree and have spent many years and a lot of money furthering my education. A synonym of professional is “specialist.” Due to my many years of education I am a specialist and I am a professional. There are many occupations in which people are professionals and choose to unionize. A professional is defined as any person that is involved in an occupation that requires specialized training. Hmmm, I suppose the 6 years I spent in college would qualify as specialized training. I suppose that all of the additional coursework I still continue to receive would count as that as well. Teachers are well aware of the financial situations occurring withing districts across the country. We aren’t greedy people, BUT when we see money being squandered by the “powers that be” we simply want to understand why we are constantly asked to take concessions.
Harlan, you write clearly and intelligently (as they say, “if you can read this, thank a teacher”), but your mention of Obama’s reelection as evidence of the failure of public education is just plain sophistry. Should the people have installed Tea Party types in office? People who think we should teach fantasy stories about talking snakes and 950 year old men and the sun stopping in the sky alongside science as alternative views to comprehending the natural world? People who think that the government has no role in health care but insist that a woman has to submit to invasive, insulting, and unneeded medical procedures prior to making personal reproductive decisions? People who arbitrarily resolve that, in 2013, the government should decree whose decisions about love and family shall be legally binding? People who want to repeal the voting rights for which people died just a few decades ago? You can set up all the straw men you want to, but it won’t wash, and neither will charter schools, which, on the whole, perform WORSE than public schools on any metric you choose. No thanks. I’ll take my chances with a superior school district’s teachers like Strongsville’s and a president who at least sees the world as it is, not as some fuzzy-minded, self-styled patriotic reactionaries wish it was.
Your response is a perfect example of the kind of ignorance that mis characterizes conservatives. You are the one constructing the straw man. That bit about denying voting rights is especially puerile. Abortion is legal, but you euphemize. It’s killing a person. It’s a legal killing. But it’s still a killing. That you use words as you do shows you don’t really think about the realities. You took your chance. Now we all have to live with it.
I am sorry you feel insulted. NO ONE denies how hard teachers work, or how devoted to do a good job for their students. I too think it is a disgrace there is so much waste in government in general and in school districts too. You should get paid as you deserve. If you want to dispute the definitions you can, but the system within which you work precludes, in my view, your calling yourself a professional. Part of the problem in this country in general is people like to change the meaning of words to make themselves feel better about their work. Teachers do very important work, but they are NOT like lawyers and doctors in their responsibilities, and the sooner they recognize that, and act accordingly, the sooner they will do better. I’ve been a teacher all my life, and I’ve been a good teacher too, and I am a pretty good specialist at teaching composition and at reading difficult books, but I can’t practice what I do outside of a school, nor did I ever undertake financial responsibility. I’m not attacking teaching per se, but the claim of public school teachers to be other than government bureaucrats who have some sort of unique claim on the public purse. If you are offended at government waste, oppose it at the ballot box. Expose the waste. Every teacher knows in every building who their colleagues are who are not pulling their weight. I personally think that one can only be insulted when one thinks one is better than others, like the old time aristocrats who fought duels over their honor. A teacher may be working their heart out, but they do NOT have any special status of honor. Don’t be insulted, be realistic.
Harlen Underhill is the only one that makes any sense in this controversy. Unions have always wanted more, more, more, look where it got some major companies. Downsized, out of business, ect. Teachers went to school to get a degree to teach. They entered into a union, now do your job and teach. Plain and simple with no big words. Just do your job and leave if you don’t like it.
Of course you are professionals. I have a doctorate in Education, Leadership and Management to be precise and teach at a local university. Our friend Harlan obviously does not know that teachers are licensed professionals. You can’t change stupid. Don’t acknowledge his ridiculous naivety.
Dear CAS: Thank you for your response. Plumbers have to be licensed too. I’m a licensed teacher myself (God help your students—right?), but since education is not a science, but rather a craft, or at best a sort of art (though a bit like cookery which Plato says is mere flattery), I prefer not to call myself a ‘professional.’ Teachers have a tendency to over estimate what they really know, and because they know that they don’t know that much, they tend to try to magnify their status by claiming to be professionals. That way they can think they are worth more money than they really are. A professional can work outside a system and make a living. Without a school system and a union a teacher is just another half-educated schlub who has fallen into a good deal in a kid factory in which real responsibility for oneself isn’t necessary. Doing what one is told is the highest priority, just like in a factory job. Teachers are workers, and that’s why they identify with workers, as in “workers of the world, unite.” They are no more professionals than sand lot baseball players are. They are the rungs on a ladder which talented kids use to climb up over them, and from which academically untalented kids slip off. Some times the rung gives a kid a boost. Sometimes the rung helps a kid not slip off. Bad teachers have knives on their surface. Good teachers have a surface on which a kid can get a good grip without being hurt. There’s no going up without them, but just because they are essential does not make them inventors or discoverers of new knowledge. They, we, should be humble about our function. When all is said and done, a rung is still a rung.
They still received their step increases. Ok so the cost of healthcare went up. Uhm have any of these teachers watched the news in say the past 10 years?! Healthcare costs are sky rocketing. Shoot I bet alot of people would love to pay $150 per month for family coverage! Most are paying more than that for single coverage. I’m all for unions and getting the best for any worker and these teachers have every right to be striking. But when you call substitutes scabs? And teachers are behaving like animals is just over the line. I’m very sure these teachers had no problems having a “scab” cover their classes when they took a day off right? It’s disgusting. Strike for what u want but have some class and show your students how to behave like EDUCATED adults! And whoever sent out these lovely pink fliers notifying us in Parma of a scab living nearby should be fired immediately. You are what’s wrong with this country.
Haven’t people who crossed the picket line always been called “scab”? I don’t understand your anger about that. I might see the point about the flier but not the “scab”. Were you the scab? Is that why you are mad?
DeeDee, you seem to assume that because you are unionized you have a right to your job. No one does. “Scab” is a very ugly word, with a lot of emotional hostility in it. Those outside the union world know that union workers use it for anyone who is brought in by management to cover a job that a union worker is striking. What’s the deal? Are unions the voice of God? Excessive union contracts in part are responsible for destroying GM and Chrysler and downsizing Ford. But the unions always pretend that they are victims when they were the perpetrators, at least in part. Spineless management collaborated with the unions to agree to unsustainable benefits when Japanese competition cut sales. “Scab” is just name calling. Heartfelt, but no more. But in some places, scabs are subjected to violence and intimidation, so unions get the reputation of thugs. When teachers descend to the level of industrial unions in thuggery, why not just accept it? The public schools are dominated by thugs and crooks in their unions. If you like that, fine. If not . . . I know it’s hard to give up a secure job. The jobs are going either way. But when government is unionized, the rest of us find it pretty unsavory.
“You are what’s wrong with this country.”
Robert… Are you kidding? When the Strongsville Bd of Ed hires a million dollar attorney, and a self-proclaimed “union buster” at that, the TEACHERS are what’s wrong with this country? WOW. I worked 30 years in a public school district, and we struck twice, and I will grant you that people can act ugly and stupid, but it cuts both ways. Yes, we had teachers acting like fools, but we also had an administrator driving a van full of subs into a school lot. She struck one of the picketers with the vehicle. And it looked awfully intentional; the picketer was NOT blocking access. The Strongsville administration is betting on the short attention span of the public, and they are probably right to do so. If people would take the time to delve into the issues here (of course, in our dumbed-down FOX News, sound bite, American Idol culture, no one will bother) they would see that the Strongsville teachers have been doublecrossed in a very serious manner. Promises made to them have been broken.
I would suggest finding another job if you are dissatisfied with your current employment situation. Unions have their place but have become a cancer to this country. Nothing more than big business trying to stay afloat. The school board hired an attorney to protect their interests. Much like your union has spent many thousands of dollars to protect theirs. My wife has a 6 year degree in nursing and has had a wage freeze now for 3 years and her health care coverage continues to increase on a regular basis. She chose that profession and accepts the situation for what it is. She continues to look for better opportunities but until those things come along she continues to do her job professionally. You the teachers choose to use the communities children as pawns. I ask the question..who is the “scab” here
Joe- I am more than willing to explain my salary. There are two types of pay freezes. The first Is a cost of living pay freeze, which we took the first 3 years. The second is a full out pay freeze where you do not get credit for any additional classes you have taken or years that you have been employed. As you can see from my salary that you posted I earned my master degree plus an additional 33 credit hours at the master degree level and the school paid me for such. What you didn’t post was my next years salary, which was identical to the year before. The school is now asking for 3 more years of this second type of pay freeze. This means anyone who has finished earning their master degree this year will not get paid for it for the next three years.
Harlan – Prior to becoming a teacher I worked in the insurance industry for 6 years. You are more than welcome to check with Progressive Insurance, National Interstate Insurance and PRS Group to see if I am stating the truth. Each job has it’s perks and down falls. Part of the perks I had working in the insurance industry was a salary larger than my current, a company credit card, a pager (Yes, I am that old.), a company cell phone, and bonuses in the form of money and trips when my employees met certain quotas. Some of the perks that I have as a teacher are holidays and the summers off, all of which are unpaid. I do have a good medical benefits package, that I cannot deny. I really can’t compare the two professions to each other though because one is not as valued as the other in this society. As you so kindly stated in your comment. All I am asking for is a fair and equitable contract that is acceptable for my profession.
I know how hard teachers work, and I know we all, mostly, try to do the best we can, and so I hope, Christina, that you manage to receive what will satisfy you. I do point out that “value” is determined by the market. You are appealing to fairness, but the world is never fair. I’ve got a doctorate for which I sweat blood, but was never paid at your level. I made half of what I think I was “worth” but my worth in dollars paid to me depended solely on what I could get. I don’t doubt you know a lot. I don’t doubt that I know a lot. But neither of us knows enough to earn God’s praise and thus receive a wage commensurate with our skills and virtues. My only objection to unions is that they seem to me to inflate in the minds of their members what they are truly “worth.” More power to those who can get the wages by withholding their work, but I don’t think there is any kind of cosmic or social justice in getting what one is truly worth. If I held out for what I’m really worth, I’d never be able to get a job. What I actually know how to do is almost priceless, but no one is willing any longer to hire me to do it. Just too old, and too unlikely to put up with the horse shit, since I’m already retired. The pay looks pretty good to ME. I find your indignation incomprehensible, though I don’t criticize your efforts in Strongville to get more. If you get fired, and if I lived there, I’d apply, and cross the picket line. Just saying.
Cry me a river… You’re complaining that your pay is being frozen but there are people being laid off and whose jobs are being out-sourced all over the place. You’re making $60K-$80K to work 7 hour days for only 9 months a year?!? boo hoo… Selfish.
I have news for you, I am a public school teacher that works seven days a week to 9 to 10 at night making lessons, creating assessments, marking papers, writing IEPs, writing unit plans for the CCSS, writing report cards, scrounging for free resources and tutoring because I cannot make ends meet because I have not had a raise in five years. Do you really think all this gets done by magic? . By the way, because my school district lacks money for basic supplies, I spend at least a thousand dollars a year stocking my classroom with the basics. And why should I not get my salary? I worked damn hard getting a B.A. and two Master level degrees besides spending countless hours taking additional courses to improve my skills.
If life were fair, you should get it. But life is not fair. You do what you can. The money is gone. You’ll have to cut your expenses. If there were any justice, you’d get what you studied for. Welcome to an economy destroyed by the Democrats. If you voted Democrat once, and then again, you knifed yourself in the back. And you’ll probably do it again too. Have you compared the Murray budget and the Ryan budget? I’ll bet you support the Democrat budget. Unbalanced budgets do not stimulate the economy. They slow it down. Your only hope better times is to vote Republican, and even Ryan’s budget depend on growth to balance. The chance of your voting in your own economic interest however, is about as low as my chance of winning the powerball. Welcome to reality, o liberal.
I feel very sorry for you. You must feel very little self worth. Only one with little self worth identifies with those who persecute them. Unfortunately, your wonderful unbridled free market system is nothing but a social construct that can be deconstructed through true democratic processes. When one does not learn from history, one tends to repeat the same mistakes. And when one repeats the same mistakes over and over expecting different results, it is called insanity.
In case you do not recall, our great depression was caused by a poorly regulated capitalist system driving down wages. When wages are driven down, consumers cannot buy products because of high cost or because they took on too much debt. Obviously, when consumers could no longer buy those consumer goods in the 1920s, the economic downturn started. Only through deficit spending can we temporarily put money back into the hands of consumers so that the market will come alive and eventually self generate. When it does, one can phase out the deficit slowly through moderate cuts in government spending along with increased tax revenue. Roosevelt was only partially successful in the 1930s because he always feared a conservative backlash. When he did make cuts in 1937, it was too soon which caused a mini downturn in the late 1930’s. But luckily he was able to create a giant Keyesian deficit that got us completely out of the depression after 1939. No, it was not an enhanced New Deal. It was called World War II defense spending. That giant deficit for our common defense ended unemployment, boosted wages by creating a job shortage and strengthening the rights of workers to collectively bargain, and by creating one of the most progressive income taxes ever. What was the horrible result? Sustained economic prosperity, a vibrant middle class, good wages until the middle part of the 1960’s. It gave the government enough revenue to increase the social safety net and allowed stated and the Feds to rapidly increase aid to public and higher education. It allowed millions of GIs who came from poor immigrant families to go to college and join the middle class through the GI BIll of Rights. .
If you notice, we view the history of this country as being totally different. To us on the left, it has been the weakening of organized labor from Reagan onward as well as the lowering of taxes and regulations, which have caused our problems today. We have had a redistribution of wealth once again. During WW II, wealth was redistributed from the upper class to the middle, now it is being redistributed from the middle to the upper class. If you anything from history, whenever wealth has become concentrated in the few, it has always caused an equal and opposite reaction. The wealthy class may be the ones who initially invest the capital, but it is still the worker who still produces the wealth. If the wealthy class can organize giant corporations that try to influence government policy, the workers absolutely have the right to do the same. Only when groups collectively bargain fairly and in good faith can there be a social contract in which all will benefit. Ben Franklin once said that any wealthy man who hoards his bounty will eventually have it taken away from those around him who are in need.
By the way, I believe you have a really selective memory. When Obama became president, we had an unemployment rate that kept increasing until it reached over 10% until he created a weak stimulus bill. It was only with the advent of deficit spending that we now have an unemployment rate that is now in the 7% range and is slowly decreasing. Unfortunately, the GOP with their sequestrian ideas will probably lead us back into a recession.
In case you do not realize it, Obama was re-elected because more Americans than not do not believe in your view of the world. Not only am I special education teacher but I am a union leader. Special education teachers have to hold iEP meetings with parents and I also meet many parents in my role as a union leader. Yes, I use my good teaching skills to show parents that they have power when educational services are being removed because of budgetary constraints caused by those who want to destroy our public education system and use public money, your money, to create a segregated private system that will enhance the wealth of the few and only educate the privileged.
In my 35 years of teaching, I want you to think about all the people I have influenced and how few you may have. By the way, I am not a liberal but a social democrat. if anything, as I have gotten older, I have moved further to the left.
You completely misunderstand the economic history you summarize. The problem is excessive government spending then and now. Liberals are social democrats. I don’t see the distinction. Yes, the majority in the last election was as ill informed as you. I assume you have had a true and good positive impact on many students. What makes you think I haven’t? But if you filled those students and/or their parents minds with the mush you offer here, I would not say the impact was positive. I completely support unions in the private sector. They are inappropriate in the public sector, including education. Carter brought them in. No end of trouble since. I like your good heartedness as a teacher, however, in spite of your closed mind to a true interpretation of American economic history. We disagree on what the true causes of prosperity are. Keynsianism is a crock. Still, even when teachers disagree on politics, we all know what being with kids is like, and can remember that common experience with pleasure.
I would love to see unions broken, yes, I am not in favor of them. But, those teachers have every right to be upset that their board hired a lawyer for $500,000. And, I might honk my horn in favor of removing him or her from the school system.
So you don’t like a weekend. A 40 hour work week. Maternity leave. Seniority. Pension plans. Workers Comp. Safe work environments. Collective bargaining for better wages. Yeah, who needs unions…… So misguided.
If the middle class in America are going to survive the union is the vehicle. Also i agree with the Strongsville Teacher about the board claims the don’t have money. The board has money.
The Stock Market is breaking records>>>>>>SO WERE IS THE MONEY!!
Bottom line. It is NOT about the kids. It is about benefits and salary. Period. Call it what it is. By definition strikes are work stoppages by workers of a certain entity that are designed to inconvenience said entity. In this case, this strike doesn’t inconvenience parents or the board. The ONLY “entity” it hurts is OUR kids. Call it what it is. Teachers work hard. Teachers have important work. I would not be where I am today without great teachers. Unfortunately, not everyone who works their fingers to the bone or who has “important work” is compensated according to their work output. You could argue that farmers should be millionaires. That’s not reality. The facts. Our teachers in Strongsville are amongst the highest paid in the state. They are paid handsomely for only about 200 days of work per year to teach the cream of the crop. Their students are well fed, well dressed and come from two parent households. To say that our schools are top ranked solely because of our teachers is like patting oneself on the back for coaching the Dream Team to an Olympic gold medal. I am a Cleveland Public School alumnus. We had MANY great teachers there that would jump at the chance to be a Strongsville teacher. I suspect they would do equally as great a job.
The SEA has made this process a three ring circus. Parents are mad because you are harming our children. If you REALLY cared you would NEVER put your own personal interests in front of the children. Unions are outdated and bad for everyone. There is a reason doctors are not unionized and are NOT allowed to strike. Could you imagine having a loved one in the intensive care unit and having your doctor walk in and tell you that they are going on strike because they wanted to be paid more and have 100% of their major medical/dental covered? Good luck with your loved one and I hope they don’t die while I’m gone. No. You could not imagine. Hopefully this helps you understand where the parents are coming from.
Harlan – I really think you have misplaced anger towards teachers, which is odd considering your profession, but it’s clear you’re not a public school teacher. Your frustration is really geared towards the unions. You might want to think about separating your frustration between the two.
As a teacher who lives in a non-union state, I have mixed feelings towards unions. You seem to lack any compassion towards teachers who are looking for an organization to look after them when it seems that the rest of society does not. YOU are the reason why teachers want unions. We might not need them if we were treated with the proper respect and as PROFESSIONALS. Since you are a teacher, I’m thinking you have some serious self-esteem issues if you don’t think of yourself as a professional, or maybe you just really don’t work as hard as the rest of us. I actually feel sorry for you but wouldn’t want you teaching my child or the students I love so much with the attitude you have. You just don’t appear to be a role model. Do you announce to your students at the beginning of the year, “Im not a professional but I’m going to teach you anyway?” What motivated you to enter this field? I take no insult toward your comments personally because I know I’m an extraordinary teacher so they have no value to me but it has made an impact on me or I wouldn’t bother responding.
Maybe you just write to stir things up?
Thank you, Kat, for the free psychiatric analysis and possibly the pity, but about that I have some doubt because the pity implies that you see yourself as superior. You clearly have no guilt. I worked twice as hard as any public school teacher all my life for half as much and then to hear so many defend the spend thrift Obama does gall me. If a person can’t see through him and yet purports to be an intellectual and moral role model for children, I don’t think that bodes well for the nation.
Teachers are not professionals. I’d agree teaching is more a craft. which includes highly skilled people. Professionalism usually breeds incompetence. Teaching is a craft that only pays well if you’re employed by the government and unionize.
Harlan…There are a ton of “Professionals” in today’s workforce that make a heck of a lot more money than a teacher with far less education. Educators are professionals, and anyone who doesn’t agree with that is just an idiot!
Well, count me in. Duh. Then I must be a professional since I spent so long getting a doctorate. Put that in your logic machine and crank. Oooops. Fallacy. They like to claim they are “professionals” because it sounds nice. But they are no more members of a “profession” in the correct sense than bricklayers. We teachers have a certain craftsmanship in combining subject matter and drama. I love the craftsmanship of doing a good class. But is acting a profession? Well, more than teaching, possibly, but without a movie studio or a theatre, the actor is nothing economically. Same with a teacher. He needs a school in which to strut his stuff. Unless he owns the school, he doesn’t even take financial responsibility. Why is it so important to have the label “professional” stuck on to oneself? I never got it. Duh. I’m an idiot, I guess.
You misinterpret what Harlan is saying. He is not demeaning teachers in any manner nor is he implying professional means you have skill. He did refer to teachers as craftsmen which I find substantially more gratifying than professional. Many jobs just require a certification process before your considered a “professional” experience or no. I would never call someone without experience a craftsman. Unions completely discredit any skill toward a specific craft. Your letting one individual negotiate for the needs of the many. I espically love unions digging into pockets as far as part time employees. I am non union however I am a part time employee, despite I fully deserve to be full time. Even better this wonderful affordable health care act that recently kicked into gear, I’m receiving a 15% pay cut do to shorter hours allowed to part time employees. Great new state law I love here. That lowers my 16000 a year down to 14000 yet your complaining about 60k and the whopping 150 a month for insurance. My monthly prescription costs me more than your entire familie health insurance plan.
Mike>>>>>>>Get a union job or organize one at your work site. In much of the conversations now days we’d forgotten our labor history. The purpose of the union is to increase pay and working condition. remember workers right!!….lol…lol….you might have to chat with old timers who worked jobs before the labor movement in America.
I hope that Ms. Potter is not an English teacher. “For all intense purposes” Really??
Any truly literate person, English teacher or not, would not have let that get through. A perfect example of why self-righteous public school teachers, on strike yet, don’t have the credibility they think they deserve for being “professional educators” (actually an oxymoron, I would claim), although it is a bit snarky of us to point out their inferior verbal skills. Are you and I much better? After all, I was only a teacher for 42 years. Those who can, do. Those who can’t, teach. And those who can’t teach, teach teachers. And substitute moral indignation for substance. There is no science of education, just a few tricks of showmanship and dramatization for a captive audience of kids who are merely relatively more ignorant than we are, for performing bureaucratic narcissists who like being the center of attention who couldn’t make it in the adult world. So much for having an education degree. At least the TFAs might actually know physics, math, chemistry, or literature. That they can do the job with only 5 weeks of prep suggests what all those education credentials really amount to. If I were union labor, I’d be scared to have anyone find out how easily I could be replaced too. It ain’t rocket science, is it?
It seems to me from this conversation that the teachers have lost there jobs. Why is the union selling a strike when officially the teacher were locked out. In the real world you’ll need much more than Master and bachelors degrees to make close to 70k plus. Most professionals i know are committed to cause more than amounts of money made. The teacher mentally is not much more than that of just another over paid government employee.
Strongsville teachers i think you’ve all been fired.
What a devilish insight! I think so too, that they have been or will be fired. Public sector employees should not be able to strike. Oh, I forgot for a moment. Duh. I’m an idiot.
Tell the Strongsville Teachers to stand “Peacefully” in solidarity and then maybe the people will move more to their side. They need to stop bullying people and calling them names (Scabs). When the public sees the bully tactics of a few, the perception of the whole is ruined. Correct this, or you will be doomed. On another note, at least you had the opportunity to “make concessions”. Most people are told “here are your increases or there is the door.” Also…the increase in health care costs are now directly related to the guy you elected to the highest office in the land. You should ask him why your union was left out, but the autoworkers got a free pass?
I work in the private world with no union representation. I pay 100% into my 401K, I pay $326.60/month for health care–NO Dental and NO Eye. Our pay has gone down 20% in the last five years. How does this compare to the Strongsville teachers?
OK, getting bored with the pity party. 80% of the comments (Cleveland.com) amount to “If I can’t have it, neither can they.” This attitude is pervasive, not just in Strongsville but nationwide, and will be the final nail in the coffin of the middle class. Last I checked, envy was on the list of deadly sins, and it’s becoming very clear why. Let me see if I can ‘splain this to ‘ya. You’re being played by a cabal of egocentric self proclaimed elites who won’t be happy with anything less than the return of the Gilded Age, and you mindless minions are doing your part to assure that comes about. The sad truth is the public education system that was founded in America and became a blueprint for the world is broken. Of the changes that need to be made, teachers’ compensation is but a distraction from taking on the real question of our priorities and values, and where we want to go as a nation. We define that and the compensation issue will take care of itself. As it is, others (Canada and Finland come to mind) have taken the ball and run with it while we take two steps backward for every one forward. Education that elevates the masses, and made this country what it is has nearly been destroyed by “the I’ve-got -mine –go- screw- yourself” crowd, resulting in the upward mobility of this country having slipped to comparative middling in the industrialized world. Gone, kaput, are the dreams of the W.W.2 generation who demanded and deserved a piece of the pie, or at least a fair shot at the crumbs. Fragmenting rather than fixing the system accelerates this to the benefit of the few, putting us on a path to those not so good old days. That said, I strongly suggest that those of you who are most upset and inconvenienced by the teachers’ act of self preservation redirect your energies to the bigger picture and target that that will make a difference to your kids, and theirs. Personally, I find it embarrassing that in the wealthiest nation on the planet we are even having this conversation.
Oh and I am not complaining–just want to know what the teacher’s want???
Nardo, The bigger issue is kill the union. Over the last 30 years that has been the goal.
In the private sector it has damn near happen. Now the focus is on Government workers. The Strongsville Teacher are unionized. Being unionize enable them to make decent wages. Actually the union has a lot more to do with them making decent wages than how many Master/bachelor degrees they have.
My question still remains–what do the teachers want? I am not against unions–never have been. So let me get this right–are we talking about socialization? So I should get paid the same as teachers and my benefits would be the same? I understand how the world works, it seems some of the people commenting do not. My company competes with companies all over the world, which is the reality. We as Americans have to adjust to the new realities–right now–China has very cheap labor and a lot of people fighting for MY job (roughly 500,000,000 people). This will change, just as it happened in Japan. I understand this and I think everyone needs to realize competition is changing the way people are paid not the people “trying to bust the unions”. Finally, I am not a “mindless minion”. I am an American who works very hard, pays taxes, never shops at WalMart and I should not be ridiculed for questioning “what the teachers are asking for”, since they work for me and I help in paying their salaries.
If you find this grammatically incorrect–thank a teacher on my behalf. If you find my independent thinking offensive–thank a teacher on my behalf. If you want me to be a “mindless minion” please contact Nancy Pelosi!
I used to be a student at Strongsville High School around 10 years ago. Strongsville is a great city but probably has the largest population of pretentious people. Today I am now working as a nurse. I have the same salary if not less then most teachers that work in Strongsville. Just like teachers, nurses are still being told they need to make concessions. All of my health care benefits that I’ve had for the past 4 years have changed dramatically for the worse and I have also experienced a pay freeze. I’m overworked from high patient loads because our funding is cut and we can’t hire more nurses. Thankfully I work in a large hospital so they haven’t taken away our shift differential pay. The economy has hit everyone hard not just the teachers.
I’m posting because if the strike is about salary then the teachers are being ridiculous. To put it in perspective, what if nurses or doctors decided to strike? Picture yourself, spouse, child or parent in a car accident nearing death. Where would you take them if nurses went on strike? What if you experience a heart attack? Who would take care of you if nurses were more concerned about their salaries then human life? If these teachers were truly concerned about their students’ futures they wouldn’t strike.
Fire them all and start over. Find people that are more appreciative of the pay.
Perhaps you could use this time to brush up on your cultural literacy— intense purposes? Gee, Teacher.
The letter is misleading regarding the states distinction ranking…This rating JUST was earned in October, 2012 for the 2011-2012 school year. “When I was hired in Strongsville, a great community with excellent schools, many other teachers said I was lucky, and they were jealous of my new job, and during the first two years, they were right; things were great with all sides working together,and we earned Ohio’s highest ranking, Excellent with Distinction.
As time went on a division started to occur between the administration and the teachers. During our 2010 contract negotiations the school stated that times were difficult and they needed the teachers to make concessions.”
October 17, 2012
All of Strongsville’s schools earned an “Excellent” rating on state report cards except two: Drake and Surrarrer elementaries, which ranked “Excellent with Distinction.”
For the first time ever, the district as a whole also was rated “Excellent with Distinction” — the highest possible rank.
To achieve the “with Distinction” rating, schools must be rated “Above” in the Value Added category, which means students met more than the standard one year of progress during the school year.
The district has ranked “Excellent” for the last 10 years, meaning it met all 26 indicators and “adequate yearly progress.”
FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER – the district was rated this high!
In November of 2012 – we residents just passed a 81 Million, 35 year Bond Issue for a new, $46.8 million middle school with grades 6-8, a community auditorium, athletic facilities and parking lots; more than $27 million in renovations at the high school, including heating and cooling improvements, lighting, technology and modular trailers to house some students during renovations; about $3.5 million in critical repairs and limited technology upgrades to current elementary schools;
renovations to the preschool building; and the demolition of Allen Elementary and Center and Albion middle schools. We did that for the kids…
Wonder how we will ever pass another levy to increase teachers salaries when they have been represented in such a poor light during this strike…
Sad all around. Not a day goes by when my 6 year old does miss his teacher.
Well, I read 90% of these comments…..
As a guy w/ 3 young one in a district w/ excellent ratings too I do feel the teachers make a schhol, but these are our kids, not the teachers – the parents are a big part of these trends.
I have not read anyone giving a parent props for the hard work they do that make their teachers job easier.
I think we can all agree austerity is on it’s way….we spend too much right? everyone agrees no?
Unfortunately, Education and the Environment are always on the table.
Private Business are beginning to understand that they NEED the local schools to continue any success they are having, that should mean supporting the school trough donations…. Local folks can keep up these cost w/o government funding.
Teachers have the future of our children (and our nation) in their hands. They prepare future generations to be doctors, lawyers, political leaders, teachers, and more. It is my feeling that teaching should be one of the highest paid professions. We should expect a lot from teachers and pay them accordingly so we can nothing but the best working with our beloved children. I will always support tax increases for education. It makes me sick how much we play professional athletes who ruin their bodies and do very little with their minds in comparison to teachers who stimulate thinking, responsibility, growth, and development. It just shows as a country we value entertainment far more than education. I teach at the college level and my ability to take students higher in their learning is directly related to what happens at all of the levels of education that come before college.
This strike is sickening. Teachers, I respected you before this strike. I too, am a governmental employee that’ s part of a union. Our health costs have gone up too, haven’t seen a pay increase in years (except for that 1 percent cost of living increase that masquerades as a raise) and make about 15,000 less than the median strongsville teachers salary with similar educational requirements and almost 2 decades of dedication to the public sector. My child has an educational plan and when I see you all out there with signs picketing, stating that you care about your students, well, YOU DON’T!!!!!! If you did you would be inside that classroom teaching my child, instead of my child playing games on his cell phone all day.
Reality check, I guess if my health care expired as of March 30, 2013 and I have been without a salary for 5 weeks, I would call for an immediate resolution to get my but back into the classroom, with an arbitrator pending for August 2013 to do what? To continue this unstable mess into the next school year so that my child could continue to experience the educational neglect that your union has created for every student in the strongsville school system? I don’t think so! I hope all the self righteous, inflated egos out there are replaced with equally qualified and stable teachers who care about their students.
I support the hard-working teachers in all of our public schools.
I think all the striking teacher should be let go and hire new ones. You have no place in the teaching system. Shame on you.
Wendy.What do you base your comments on? Fiction or Fact – if your so against the teachers please expand WHY? If you have valid reason good for you,otherwise SHAME ON YOU.
No one is bashing the teachers! As a resident of Strongsville and a mother of 3 in the school district, I can say that MOST of the teachers are excellent. But since 2009, times have been hard on most of the residents here. We can not afford to pay 80% of the teachers salaries as their pensions. We can not afford to pay for their healthcare like we used to. I pay $400 pay to play for each sport my high schoolers are in now. $300 each middle school sport. We want our teachers back, but times have changed. The board took the 9.9 mil levy off the ballot when they knew it wouldn’t pass and was not money worth spending ($25,000 for each item on the ballot). The text books are old, buildings are in disrepair, and all they think of is themselves! They have to look around. And look to the future. Debt for everyone is going up. If the Board doesn’t act now, classes and bussing will have to be cut in the future.
Poor Christina. She makes $60,000 a year ( look it up, its public knowledge) and the poor thing only gets 15 weeks of vacation. She only gets $6.000 put into her pension plan each year. She has to pay 10 % of her medical ! Rotten job.
Donna, that is not a handsome salary for a professional. Do you want teachers who collect welfare?
$60,000 is not a terrible salary, a little more than historians, police officers and respretory therapists earn, a little less than anthropologists, archeologists, and cartographers. The BLS provides an interesting table that can be found here: http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_nat.htm
Depending on family income and size, a ways away from qualifying for TANF.
TE, does it bother you that an experienced teacher earns $60,000?
It does not especially bother me. Does it bother you that the average historian earns $58,240? The average curator earns $54,800? The average archavist earns $50,810? What income level should these folks be earning? How would you decide how much a physician earns relative to a welder?
Oh my – you have been hanging out in Strongsville tooo much. That salary would take care of a family of 4 in Cleveland. She is light years away from Welfare….Welfare is for people who can’t afford to EAT. Are you really going to tell me Christina can’t afford to eat? C’mon,,,,
Donna, go to church and pray for a kind heart. It can’t hurt.
I must dispute (once again) the use of the word “professional” for teachers. One can teach with a BA, and if one gets an MA no more training is needed. There is not the professional licensing exam that lawyers and doctors and engineers have to take. Teachers are more like craftsmen than professionals. I don’t think we should use professional as merely metaphorical glorification. We could as well say hair stylists are professionals, or car mechanics, or pole dancers. A good, experienced, class room teacher, is indeed, worth her weight in gold from a sentimental point of view, but in the strict sense, she is not a professional because as yet there is no science of education or some extensive of body of knowledge that MUST be mastered to function effectively (as in law). Any sweet person with an ability to relate to children and a modicum of intellectual competence in language, math, and science can be a teacher if they are interested in learning the craft, the knack, of wading in amongst the ankle biters and getting them to sing songs, draw pictures, and read aloud to each other. It is hard work, it is good work, and benefits from a sense of collegial integrity among its practitioners, but a profession it is not. A craft, yes, and a worthy one. For a craftsman, $60,000 is a fair yearly wage, especially given the summers off. We teachers know that they are not REALLY “off.” Good teachers work at improving their craft all year round. There are no teachers in heaven during the summer because they’re all down in hell taking summer courses. Been there. Done that. A socially necessary craft, a delightful craft under good conditions, a holy craft under bad conditions. But let’s not confuse it with a “profession.” An unfair comment, DR.
There are some professional athletes without anything more than a high school degree. Perhaps you dispute that characterization as well.
This a purely semantic question. In the context of sport “professional” means an athlete who accepts money to play. It’s antonym is “amateur.” in the context DR was using the word, that distinction is irrelevant. The question is whether “public school teaching” is a “profession” in the sense that law, medecine, or engineering are. The adjective “professional” seems the same but is not because the contexts are different. Often words that seem the same in isolation have more than one denotation. Thus I do not dispute the usage “professional athlete” because it has no reference to the individual’s level of education. When we call teachers “professionals” I see it as an attempt to lift the status of the occupation by borrowing and misapplying a word. If there were a science of education that a teacher had to learn in order to practice, the word would be appropriate. My teaching certificate required 15 hours of methods. Two courses of the five were good, especially Ed. psych, but were orientation to some tools. The other three were typical phony Ed school courses. Some jargony reading, a Mickey Mouse project or two, and voila, a certified teacher, but not a professional in any sense of the term. Knowing one’s way around a classroom is not the same as knowing one’s way around the eye, or the heart, or the intestine. Perhaps Ed schools have tightened up, but I doubt it. It’s more like apprenticeship, a good thing in itself, but not preparation for one of the professions. If you find some flaw in this analysis, I’d be glad to have it brought to my attention.
That is certainly a narrow, and somewhat idiosyncratic, definition of what it means to be a professional. If I understand your argument, it is based on the idea that the designation of a professional is based on the existence and rigor of a national or at least state based qualifying exam. Thus a commercial truck driver is a professional while university professors like Dr. Ravitch are not. A CPA is a professional, but actors like Daniel Day-Lewis are not. A physician is a professional, but chefs like Rick Bayless are not.
Your expansion of the range of examples is good philosophical strategy, but largely irrelevant. Do you agree with my semantic distinction between “professional” in the context of sports and “professional” in the context of law, medicine, accounting, and so forth? My main underlying assumption is that to have a profession one must have an underlying science. Plato thought that “cookery” was not even a kind of art, but rather a flattery. Acting can be thought of as a craft with practitioners such as Laurence Olivier and Daniel Day Lewis raising it to what some might call an “art.” I think teaching is much like performing. It can be done as a craft but among great practitioners rises to art. I do not, therefore, accept your characterization of my definition as idiosyncratic in the least.
I certainly agree that teaching and acting have much in common, but disagree that my examples were not relevant. I am feeling around for the edges of your definition of professional.
I am now confused, however. I thought that you were defining a profesional as one who must pass a suitably difficult qualifying exam given by some competent authority like the state or federal government. I now see that I was mistaken and to be arofesional you need not be certified, but have an underlying science. If I may feel around for some more corners, writers are not professionals but reperatory thearapists are professionals? Where would you put acupuncturists?
Harlem, you can create any social construct you desire. I think most in this society feel that teaching is a profession. New York requires that any profession has to be licensed by the NYSED. Just go on the state website to look up my three professional licenses. And yes, there is a science behind this professon. It is called psychology and child development. Sadly, it is those who are trying to destroy public education who do not believe in this science. I think you should look up Piaget.
Thank you for your exploration of the focii and peripheries of the term “professional.” I do include the criterion of state certification, as doctors and lawyers must be, but I also add a component of an underlying “science” or “body of knowledge” that must be mastered in order to be licensed to practice independently with a presumption by the public of competence. That does also include some sort of “bar exam” such as lawyers must take and “boards” which physicians must pass. I am contrasting those requirements with what is required to become certified to teach in the public schools. Would you not agree that there is a substantive difference with respect to “knowledge” between what a doctor, lawyer, engineer, and so forth must be master of and what a public school teacher must be master of? If you do agree, I would want you to take the next step and apply the term “professional” to the former group but withhold it from the latter. I would argue that such a differentiation is necessary because there is not sufficient “science” underlying teaching for there to even BE a bar-like exam or medical boards for teachers. Rundi Weingarten has proposed that teachers be required to take such an exam, but I doubt there can be agreement on what awarenesses (I don’t call them knowledge) should be on such an exam. It could be stipulated but would be arbitrary, where in law one must know about contracts, torts, constitutional law, and all the other parts of a bar exam, and likewise for medical boards. Perhaps my long absence from contact with a School of Education has deprived me of awareness of a modern, coherent, science of education. If there is such a science, I would be glad to have my ignorance of it removed.
Sent from my iPhone
Perhaps there is a science after all. Piaget is relevant. Child Development is relevant. I suppose Freud is relevant, too. A possible criticism of the CCSS is that the skills described for the various grade levels are not developmentally appropriate. If there is a true “science” of education, psychology and child development would be where it is located. I suppose I should suspend my objection to the use of the term “professional” until I learn more about what is actually “known” about child development. I am currently interested in HOW children learn arithmetic, and I do concede that it is a complicated matter worthy of science. Apparently some extraordinary work is being done in that area by Dean Lowenstein of the Ed. School at the University of Michigan. Perhaps I can find a way to get admitted to one of her workshops this summer.
Harlan, there is a professional licensure exam for teachers…..it is called the Praxis….you must test in principals of teaching and learning and you must also test for your specific licensure area. Once you are tested and pass, you can be hired but then you must undergo some type of mentoring with a teacher that meets certain guidelines set by the state. Teachers no longer receive “forever” contracts.Contracts are 5 years and within that time you must complete 6 credit hours or 18 ceu’s. The rigor of today’s teacher is very different from that of past teachers. Come visit schools and see what is required of us now and you may change your mind about whether or not we are professionals. I agree that we are craftsman, but we are certainly professionals.
The truth is Market place determines worth. So the question really is…, can Strongsville find another Teacher as good as Christina for less money who might even be willing to pay 15% for their health premiums???? i think YES !!!!!! So the market place tells us – she is replaceable.
Donna, do you want your children taught by the cheapest teachers? No experience necessary?
I can’t believe that Christina Potter sent a letter saying that she did not get any raises during the last 6 years. She states that only first 2 years were good.
These are her words from above in quotes
“During our 2010 contract negotiations the school stated that times were difficult and they needed the teachers to make concessions. In good faith, and promise of a levy, we agreed to an additional two year pay freeze on top of the three years we had already taken”
Please go and check this site
http://www.buckeyeinstitute.org/teacher-salary
and PDF file http://www.strongnet.org/cms/lib6/OH01000884/Centricity/Domain/79/August%2016%202012%20Agenda.pdf. Document from Board of Education meeting from AUGUST 16, 2012
You will find there her last income and the increase, but she said that she did not receive any raises. What I see that in last 6 years her income increased by over 21 thousands. How is that not a raise? How is that a pay freeze? Why is it again that “Salary Upgrade” is not a raise?
Let me repeat – AS GOOD AS CHRISTINA did I say cheapest ? did I say without experience. I think there are EXPERIENCED, GOOD teachers who would take Christina’s job and be willing to make even less, pay a little more for benefits than she currently does. I hope we get the chance to find out if I am right!!!!!
I’m very late to the game here, but NEVER trust what the Buckeye Institute claims. My wife is in their database – they have her salary wrong for 4 out of 7 years. They have her education level wrong. They have the schools she has worked at wrong. I honestly think they have more things wrong than right.
Then if you look at their pension calculations, they once again botch things. They claim she has a future pension value of $36,600 per year, though the actual pension plan documents show a future value of ~$4000.
You see, the Buckeye Institute claims a pension value based on a career that hasn’t even been worked yet. Ok, I’ll give them a break there – if she does work to age 60, she might get a pension like that. Of course they don’t mention the small fortune that will have been deducted from her paycheck to pay for that benefit (to date, nearly $50,000 has been deducted to pay for a benefit that might pay out in 32 years at $4000 per year). But they incorrectly calculate the value of that benefit with a COLA that no teacher will get. They also don’t properly apply life expectancy tables to their calculation (ie, if you retire at 60, you don’t count the full value of the scheduled pension payment at age 75, you multiply it by the probability of being alive to receive the payment, and include that result in your calculations). Then they don’t do any discounting for the fact that the pension won’t even pay for a LONG time.
So, for example, that $36,600 they claim might start getting paid in 32 years they say is ~$827,000 now, because they use a 0% discount rate. In reality, if you invested ~$168,200 today at US treasury bond rates, you would have enough to cover what they improperly calculated as the pension payments. That’s nearly a 5x difference.
In other words, they are overestimating the pension payments and then using those overestimates to overstate the value of the pension by using a 0% discount rate.
The goal of the Buckeye Institute is to destroy public education and teacher unions, and they won’t be the least bit honest in their efforts.
Who are we – any of us – to determine what a teacher is worth???? Its the MARKETPLACE . Supply and demand. If we could find lots of unemployed Brain Surgeons that were excellent than they wouldn’t be making $350,000 a year. But they are. Why? there is no one else qualified for their jobs.
And so apparently, due to “market forces,” we are making teachers join in THE RACE TO THE BOTTOM: who will be willing to work the most for the least? Who will be willing to pay the most for health insurance while going the longest without receiving a pay increase? Inflation rises, gas prices rise, rent goes up… but your pay is frozen for years! Unpaid work?? As inexcusable as it is disgusting. And which SCAB teacher will be willing to slave away in such conditions? They’ll be applauded by human scum as they cross the picket line. Surely our glorious capitalistic marketplace will determine the price of the teacher commodity. This is WAGE SLAVERY. If you’re not fighting it, then you must be some sort of lazy bourgeois half-wit.
While doing the classic “victim blaming” of trying to point out the “high salaries” of the striking teachers, one should also investigate the truly high salaries of the administrative bureaucracy. The worthless bosses will always make far more money than the people who actually do the work and teach the kids. Do the bosses have to work unpaid and experience a wage freeze? Hell no!! What sort of concessions are the administrators making? Seriously, go find out! Stop blaming the victims and find out how the bosses are being affected. (hint: they are not affected)
Do any of you foolish opponents to the teachers strike know anything about labor history? The teachers could possible enlighten you, but they can’t right now because they are striking in order to fight for their BASIC RIGHTS AS WORKERS. Fun fact: Workers in this country have DIED for the basic labor rights that are continuously chipped away by the scourge of capitalism. And as you read this, workers are dying all over the world in their fight for these same basic rights…
Solidarity with the striking teachers! An injury to one is an injury to all.
Basic rights? Spare me the drama ! Not to worry. Heard theirs a tentative settlement. So yeah ! You can make your lexus payment and take that cruise this summer…we are all paying for it – why not !!!
We wouldnt want to force you to DIE for your $75,000 a year plus – ya know your BASIC RIGHT LOL
The teachers don’t need the respect of a crusty scab like you. Perhaps you can provide some level of proof that one of the striking teachers owns a Lexus and makes a $75,000 salary? Right-wing radio rumors are purely anecdotal and will not pass as actual proof.
Seems as though you are falling into some sort of delusional anti-worker mindset, grasping at worn out bourgeois notions, totally removed from reality – a reality in which the working class must continue to fight against the continued threat of things like “austerity measures.” So… Happy May Day, donna! Millions of working people around the world, all of us owners of luxury cars and high salaries, will be celebrating International Workers Day and showing solidarity to the striking teachers of Strongsville and beyond.
It seems the average salary in Strongville is not far from $75,000.
“The ODE lists the average Strongsville teacher salary at $65,558 for 2010-2011, but the SEA itself admits that its effective salary is actually $73,746 because the school district pays the teachers’ share of the State Teacher Retirement System contribution, which the SEA says adds an additional 10.3 percent onto their average salary.”
Here is the source:http://www.cleveland.com/strongsville/index.ssf/2013/04/strongsville_teachers_say_thei.html
TE, $75,000 is not a high salary for a professional with a masters’ degree.
I never said it was a high salary. A poster asked for evidence that teachers in Strongville were actually paid $75,000, so I did a little something (just a Google search, to find out)
I appreciate the salary research, but am still waiting for proof that striking teachers drive luxury cars…
I think that a person who valued automobiles would certainly be able to lease a Lexus for $360 a monthf on an income of $75,000 a year. I would not do it, but a car is more of a tool for me.
We are concerned with teachers driving nice cars…..first check what occupation their spouse holds. Second, why are you concerned with teachers driving nice cars when politicans have their own drivers!!!! Look at the big picture people…..teacher’s salaries are not huge and teachers aren’t living high on the hog. I live in a modest house that has needed a new roof for years. My van has 160,000 miles on it. I don’t make a killing but I make a livable wage. I make an honest wage. I don’t live like a politician and I work my tail off for the kids…..complain about politicians and welfare recipients….not teachers!!!
I have lost all respect for the Strongsville teachers it will take me awhile to get over their behavior
Uh duh….salaries are on line….and I’m not a scab teacher….just a tax paying Strongsville resident who works 12 months a year for my salary….and if you want to check out the real “working class” ….come down 71 to the streets of Cleveland where $60,000 is not considered chump change. Hey – be happy – you got your contract…you can’t be fired no matter HOW bad of a teacher you are….why the anger???
First, you may want to get your facts straight before you go spouting off at the mouth. Teachers absolutely CAN be fired. I have seen teachers get fired….2 so far this year (and no I don’t work for Strongsville). Second we work on contract. If we make 60,000 a year, we “loan” the local government part of our salary over the school year and they repay us over the summer. So the government is actually collecting interest on OUR money!!!! YOU ARE WELCOME!!!!!
Again the anger – so defensive. Okay so we should be THANKING you for allowing us to use your average salary of $74,000 a year for a short time before we give it to you ???? You’re kidding right?
Time for you to chill – hey look at the bright side – you only have to work 6 more weeks and you are back on vacation !!!
No anger here, just looking forward to a nice couple months off. I sign a contract every year that indicates that I work for 180 days. You too can sign that same contract. All you have to do is go to school for a degree in teaching. Then you can do all the work that I do (many many hours outside of the classroom and many hours in school continuing my education). Then you can deal with disrespectful children, who could care less to learn. You can deal with parents, who could care less if the kids come to school. And you can deal with the community, that believes we are soooo overpaid. And finally, you can deal with the lawmakers, that have never stepped foot in a classroom (since high school) but feel compelled to take all of my instructional time and test kids half to death. If that sounds like a great job, please, become a teacher and quit complaining about us having 50 less work days a year than you…..many of those are working on lesson planning, grading and going to workshops!! But no I am not angry at all….I just can’t understand why you are so bitter!
Why does the struggling economy have to end with attacking teachers! Hey, I am on the side of the taxpayers, but I don’t think teachers need to be attacked to address the fact that taxpayers are paying their share in Ohio. The district that my kids go to have old buildings and may limit busing this year. The problem in our community is lack of support to pass any levy in over a decade. On the other hand, the average Ohioan make less than $75,000 per year and even less than $60,000 per year. It’s not just teachers and their pensions but all government workers that our government has failed to do the math and has started to bankrupt some places like Detroit. I know there are other factors so please don’t debate that. Rather, I’d like to hear how we taxpayers can help make government finance like the private sector. This is the job, this is what we can pay you which happens to be $25,000 more than the average worker in some states. This is why the taxpayers can’t pay more for salaries or healthcare because they make less than you. Many taxpayers are going to be burdened with our own health care like myself. We have got to go back to a Reagan or Clinton Economy which puts people to work. If half the economy didn’t take care of the other half, we could provide nicer schools and basics like busing (though I think some in the community have the money, but are too self absorbed to pass a levy). Then, when we have more people working for around $40 to $50 thousand per year, we can discuss teachers paying $80,000 a year for others. I just think it would be more beneficial for people who have studies economics and a free market economy to come up with solutions instead of attacking teachers.
Sorry, I meant to type we can discuss taxpayers paying teachers $80K per year not teachers paying taxpayers…ha! Oh, if we just never ran out of spending other people’s money, it would be so easy!