In a fascinating article, the Washington Post reported that several of Trump’s lawyers urged him to avoid an indictment by returning all the classified documents. He refused. He chose instead to take the advice of Tom Fitton, head of the conservative group Judicial Watch, who told him he could keep the documents. Fitton is not a lawyer. Early on, in 2021, one of Trump’s lawyers tried to persuade him to negotiate a return, to avoid an indictment. Trump refused.
Since the National Archives first asked for the return of presidential documents in Trump’s possession in February 2021 and until a grand jury issued its indictment this month, Trump was repeatedly stubborn and eschewed opportunities to avoid criminal charges, according to people with knowledge of the case, many of whom spoke on the condition of anonymity to reveal internal details. They note that Trump was not charged for any documents he returned voluntarily.
Interviews with seven Trump advisers with knowledge of the probe indicate he misled his own advisers, telling them the boxes contained only newspaper clippings and clothes. He repeatedly refused to give the documents back, even when some of his longest-serving advisers warned of peril and some flew to Mar-a-Lago to beg him to return them.
When Trump returned 15 boxes early last year — leaving at least 64 more at Mar-a-Lago — he told his own advisers to put out statements to the National Archives and to the public that “everything” had been returned, The Washington Post has previously reported. But he quietly kept more than 100 classified documents….
Trump time and again rejected the advice from lawyers and advisers who urged him to cooperate and instead took the advice of Tom Fitton, the head of the conservative group Judicial Watch, and a range of others who told him he could legally keep the documents and should fight the Justice Department, advisers said. Trump would often cite Fitton to others, and Fitton told some of Trump’s lawyers that Trump could keep the documents, even as they disagreed, the advisers said…
“I think what is lacking is the lawyers saying, ‘I took this to be obstruction,’” said Fitton. “Where is the conspiracy? I don’t understand any of it. I think this is a trap. They had no business asking for the records … and they’ve manufactured an obstruction charge out of that. There are core constitutional issues that the indictment avoids, and the obstruction charge seems weak to me.”
Several other Trump advisers blamed Fitton for convincing Trump that he could keep the documents and repeatedly mentioning the “Clinton socks case” — a reference to tapes Bill Clinton stored in his sock drawer of his secret interviews with historian Taylor Branch that served as the basis of Branch’s 2009 book documenting the Clinton presidency.
Judicial Watch lost a lawsuit in 2012 that demanded the audio recordings be designated as presidential records and that the National Archives take custody of the recordings. A court opinion issued at the time stated that there was no legal mechanism for the Archives to force Clinton to turn over the recordings.
For his part, Fitton said Trump’s lawyers “should have been more aggressive in fighting the subpoenas and fighting for Trump.”
Trump’s unwillingness to give the documents back did not surprise those who knew him well. Former White House chief of staff John F. Kelly said that he was particularly unlikely to heed requests from people or agencies he disliked.
“He’s incapable of admitting wrongdoing. He wanted to keep it, and he says, ‘You’re not going to tell me what to do. I’m the smartest guy in the room,’” Kelly said Tuesday…
Other advisers said the FBI and National Archives wanting the documents so badly made Trump less likely to give them back…
“It’s mine,” Trump said, explaining why he did not want to give the materials back, according to people with knowledge of his comments.
If this sounds like the behavior of a 2-year-old, well, draw your own conclusions.

Trump is an egomaniac. Who knew?
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Yes, Roy, “Trump is an egomaniac.” He’s totally incapable of thinking about anyone else except himself. He’s disgusting…totally.
The dumpster is living in his own FANTASY world. He’s _______ (fill in the blank.) He’s never had to face any kind of consequence for his horrible deeds…until now.
Wonder how much Rubles the dumpster got and is getting from Russia?
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Diane and Yvonne We CAN extend the condition and the metaphor to anyone in our USA culture who has the fuzzy status of “oligarch,” or the “one percent,” or those hiding behind the corporate curtain.
The test of capitalism as successful or failed in a democratic state (small d) is written into the heart of the capitalist . . . it’s about whether they can steer around or transform their and their corporations’ tendencies towards self-serving greed, the zero-sum-game aspect of competition (elimination of competitors), and the gaining of authoritarian power over all, none of which, BTW, embody the purported principles of capitalism at all. The oligarch (religious or otherwise) can assume self-mastery, however, and embrace the democratic ideal as, for one, the principle of temperance for all that is corrosive and corrupt in themselves as persons writ-small, but also as forces for the future writ-large.
Trump’s egotism, contempt for law and anyone who opposes him, and the desire to have “executive” power over ALL is just a metaphor for all that is wrong with the present American situation as it eeks out into the world. . . the situation that has been in process and is coming to fruition as we speak. CBK
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wow Yvonne, the last 2.5 years have been great right????? 15-20% inflation, gas prices and energy prices a mess, idiotic policies, forcing vaccines, stock market dropping, ukraine war, ww3 coming, china going to invade taiwan, noooo everything is great, dummy.
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Josh,
Isn’t it a relief to have a thoughtful wise experienced running the country instead of a psychotic narcissist? I wake up every day happy to know that Trump is no longer in the White House. Apparently most of the people who worked for him feel the same.
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Trump still clings to the erroneous idea that he is above the law.
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We won’t know until after the trial whether everyone is equal before the law. Or whether Trump is special.
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It remains to be seen whether the idea is actually erroneous.
There are many ways that this case could prove otherwise, from the judge overseeing the case to the Supreme Court.
The fact that Trump was indicted is a start, but hardly proof that “no one id above the law”
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And the fact that the Supreme Court can unilaterally decide whether particular laws are unConstitutional already disproves the claim that “no one is above the law”.
The Supreme Court majority are unequivocally above the law.
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Somebody, or some body, has to decide what the law means. I guess we could bitch and whine about how only Congress gets to pass legislation, or how only the Executive branch gets to run the federal government. But shit (i.e. the Constitution) happens.
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Biden is a fraud criminal we knew!!!!!!
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Aug. 8 — The FBI executes the
search warrant at Mar-a-Lago.
The search lasts nine hours
and results in the recovery
of “roughly 13,000 documents
totaling approximately 22,000
pages.” (13 boxes).
Six pictures released as part
of the indictment against Trump
show cardboard boxes of documents
stacked in a bathroom, ballroom,
and a bedroom.
NOW the boxes are of
concern. Why did the agents
only take 13 boxes, in 9 hours?
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Trump hid boxes, as we learned in the indictment. Some were shipped to his golf club in Bedminster, New Jersey. The indictment says so but doesn’t mention a search of the golf club. It’s possible even more classified documents are still missing.
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NoBrick,
You wondered why it took 9 hours for the fbi to search Mar-a-Lago when they found only 13 boxes. I’m not sure whether your comment is why they took so long or why they found “only” 13 boxes. Given that MAL has 126 rooms, I wonder how they were able to search it in only 9 hours. If they searched longer, they might have found more. I also wonder if they searched Trump’s golf club in Bedminster, NJ. The indictment says he took boxes there but does not mention a search.
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That the DOJ, via the FBI, has not search ALL of Trump’s properties and those of other agents of The Trump Organization, including Eric, Ivanka, and Donnie Jr. is, at this point, breathtaking misfeasance.
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This is the glaringly obvious thing that people who complain about false equivalencies with Biden don’t get. When people who are not scumbag criminals learn they have documents that they may not legally keep, they return them. If they don’t return them sua sponte, then they return them when they are asked to return them. They certainly return them when they receive a freaking DOJ subpoena. And they most definitely lie to the DOJ about the documents over and over.
Trump had every chance to avoid this situation.
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“most definitely DO NOT lie”
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Diane This is an example of how the lies get exacerbated:
From: CHRIS WALKER, TRUTHOUT 06-14-23 newsletter@truthout.org
Fox News Calls Biden “Wannabe Dictator” Who Had “Political Rival” Trump Arrested
“The claim by the network that Biden played a role in indicting Trump is unfounded and baseless. . . . ” CBK
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Trump was indicted by a Florida grand jury composed of Floridians. That FOX headline was a disgrace.
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Diane and FLERP! Also, does anyone really question whether Biden or Mike Pence shared such documents with foreign powers? Or meant to expose them to whomever, or to hide them from the FBI?
This is a matter of patterns of behavior and the reasonable expectations of others, good or bad, that flow from them.
Trump: BAD
Biden, Pence, Clinton: GOOD
Reasonably expected patterns embody the MAJOR differences between these people . . . a difference that is easily exploited by those who have been successfully propagandizing (lying, half-truths, innuendo, distracting, appeals to fear, etc.) for so long . . . while many of us continued to think all was okay and slept (not politically woke) as our democratic foundations were and are under attack and crumbling under our feet.
We still have symptoms of being shocked into numbness. CBK
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All the right-wing media are carrying this false equivalency stuff. And all are positioning it as Biden trying to remove his rival from contention.
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And all of these right-wing media are suggesting that Trump is innocent of all charges even though he is clearly guilty of
Loan fraud via submission of falsified asset valuations in order to procure loans and renegotiated terms for loans
Illegal (excessive) campaign contribution (paying hush money to two “lovers”–a porn star and an ex-Playboy bunny–to keep them quiet during an election, in violation of election law because the payments were in excess of legal campaign contribution limits)
Falsification of business records to hide the illegal hush money payments
Conspiracy to interfere with and overturn an election via the fake electors scheme
Conspiracy to interfere with and overturn an election by throwing the election back to Republican-controlled legislatures
Conspiracy to interfere with and overturn an election by sending a mob to disrupt the certification of the election results
Conspiracy to interfere with and overturn an election by getting the VP to refuse to accept the state-certified election results
Facilitating tax evasion by making unreported under-the-table in-kind payments as compensation to officers of at least one of his corporations
Multiple counts of sexual assault and/or rape
Soliciting the hacking of his political opponent’s email by a foreign government
Willful retention of national defense information
Multiple counts of conspiracy to obstruct justice
Withholding classified documents
Corruptly concealing classified documents
Concealing documents in a federal investigation
Conspiracy to conceal documents
Multiple counts of false statements and representations under oath
Attempted bribery of a foreign official (arms to Ukraine in exchange for dirt on the Bidens)
Attempted election interference
Conspiracy to defraud the United States
Conspiracy to disrupt official proceedings
Seditious conspiracy
Aiding and abetting insurrection against the United States
Obstruction of justice
Espionage (treasonous sharing of classified material with unauthorized persons)
Conspiracy to commit election fraud
Criminal solicitation to commit election fraud
Intentional interference with performance of election duties
Second case for defamation of E. Jean Carroll
This is, of course, a PARTIAL list.
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And that’s the guy that the Republican Party of today wants to return to the Oval Office for four years. The idiocy and malfeasance of that are breathtaking.
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Bob,
I wish it was the right wing. The co-opted reporters who cover Trump for the so-called liberal NYT have normalized the false equivalency. (NYT Pitchbot has been skewering their false equivalency articles for a while now.)
The NYT has written multiple articles in which they amplify the right wing’s false equivalency, with some buried phrase that all the right wing false equivalencies the reporter just spent 5 paragraphs giving legitimacy to “may” not be totally accurate, according to some very biased Democrats.
It really is as simple as what FLERP! wrote — but to read the NYT there are many similarities between Biden and Trump (Pence is never mentioned) that must always be pointed out.
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I wish it was the right wing. The co-opted reporters who cover Trump for the so-called liberal NYT have normalized the false equivalency\
Agreed. It’s appalling. This @&(@#%&%#&#@&*% treated, in this way, war plans and information identifying agents and assets of the United States in hostile foreign countries. It’s treason.
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The press is treating this as though it were a freaking faux pas. OMG. He used the salad fork for the dessert.
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I agree. I am not reading in the media, right or left (I read both), much that even begins to discuss the gravity of what Trump has done AND IS CONTINUING TO DO.
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Again, Public school parent, you have no clue what you are talking about here. You haven’t read the book. You haven’t taught the book to black and white 9th-graders. You evince no understanding of how realist fiction works. Did you follow AT ALL, my detailed explanation of how the book’s parallel plot structure works to teach kids about racism? OBVIOUSLY, you did not.
CLUELESS.
DON”T WRITE ABOUT MATTERS YOU KNOW NOTHING WHATSOEVER ABOUT. And certainly don’t go on and on about them, piling error on error, endlessly. It’s extraordinarily foolish to write about matters that you don’t know about and do not, at all, understand.
Oh, sorry, my bad. Do go on and on some more explaining to the hundreds of thousands of teachers who have successfully used this book to teach kids to be antiracist your far superior understanding of this matter based on ZERO EXPERIENCE OR RELEVANT TRAINING.
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Your claim that you are not taking a book banning approach to this topic, NYC PSP, is completely disingenuous. REPEATEDLY, over and over, ad nauseum, you have claimed here that T
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Your claim, NYC PSP, that you are not taking a book burning stance with regard to To Kill a Mockingbird is completely disingenuous. Repeatedly, over and over ad nauseum, on these pages, here and in the past, you have called this a racist book and called for its being replaced in the curriculum by something else. That’s EXACTLY the MO of Moms for Liberty and Ron Ron DeSantis. And it horrifies you. But you don’t even see you yourself doing PRECISELY THE SAME THING, and in the same kind of utterly uniformed and over-the-top extended rants.
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^^^Even today, the NYT has a very long article prominently displayed, written by a couple of the NYT’s most Trump-normalizing reporters about Trump just liked keeping documents nearby because he was “attached” to his boxes, poor guy.
The most absurd things are written up by the NYT as if they are intelligent, reasonable and very important news. If Trump shot someone on Fifth Avenue, NYT reporters Maggie Haberman, Alan Feuer and Michael S. Schmidt would write 10 prominently displayed article about how Trump just had an attachment to his gun and didn’t realize it would go off. And never once mention that those 10 new articles those Trump sycophants wrote contradicted the dozens of previous articles they wrote offering up the earlier narratives that Trump wanted the NYT reporters to amplify about why he was allowed to shoot someone on Fifth Avenue or retain any classified documents he wanted.
If the “Trump just liked the security of having his boxes around him” latest narrative that Maggie Haberman et al are now legitimizing doesn’t work, Maggie and pals will dutifully present the next absurd Trump narrative as if it was true.
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These documents reveal sources and methods of U.S. intell, as well as defense operational plans. The MOST SENSITIVE INTELLIGENCE. Anyone who would make excuses for his actions regarding this material is not a friend of the United States and its people.
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https://twitter.com/projectlincoln/status/1669540301600440320?s=46&t=cdIVxMmIPG5io6ExW9A9zA
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Omg. I hope he sees it.
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Yes, and FOX News ran a headline calling mild-mannered centrist Biden a “wannabe dictator” who was trying to take down his political opponent. They don’t know that a grand jury of Floridians voted to indict Trump for a crime as Grave as that of the Rosenbergs.
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Exactly, Diane. With this small suggested emendation: Fox DOES know this. They just choose to say otherwise, as they knew that Biden won the election but chose to be complicit with seditionist Trump’s attempt to overturn the result.
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Trump is a malignant narcissist. He is also a pathological liar.
Many years ago, I was privileged to sit in a class at Indiana University under the great medievalist E. Talbot Donaldson. He spoke of Chaucer’s Wife of Bath’s Tale and how she hilariously gives away, continually, the fact that she is lying through her gapped teeth. And how does she do that? By constantly averring that she’s telling the truth, often with an accompanying oath.
Today, when I think of that class, my mind naturally goes to the second greatest liar of our time, after Vladimir Putin: Don the Con. I think of how he named his Social Media company Truth Social–the place he goes now to text out his “Truths.”
There was a time when I thought, what if a deal were made with Trump whereby he wouldn’t be prosecuted as long as he agreed to stay T_ out of the public realm and stick to whatever he does all day–farting, crashing people’s wedding parties, talking to people about how great he is, stuffing his face with cheeseburgers, and cheating at golf. But as his crimes have multiplied, and as I have become more familiar with their extreme depravity, I’ve come to long to see him in prison for the rest of his vile life. But mostly, I want the whole corrupt cesspool of his life to be exposed.
One of the ancient Greek words used by Plato and the like that is now translated into English as “truth” is aletheia. This word means, literally, not hidden, or not concealed (a-letheia). I really want, now, for the whole world see see the truth about Trump, for it all to be unconcealed, divulged, right out there in the open, from his first refusal to rent apartments to black people as a young businessman to his utter failures as a businessman attempting to bilk people in casinos to his first recruitment as a Russian asset way, way back in the late 1980s, right down to today and whatever he arranged to get in exchange for classified top secret U.S. intelligence, including war plans and identities and methods of our human intelligence resources. I think of myself as a forgiving person. But Trump is irredeemable. OK. Yes. I understand. He’s sick. But at his age, he has to be held responsible for being what he is, the quintessence of the vile.
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The Guardian reported that 4.4% of adults believe violence is justified to return Trump to office. That provides confirmation that the number of hate groups identified by the SPLC is likely in the correct ball park.
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good point
Trump thought that enormous crowds were going to turn out to stop his indictment
lol
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We’ve had 46 U.S. Presidents. The total number of felony counts on which U.S. Presidents have been indicted is 71. Here’s how that breaks down:
1-44: 0 felony counts
45: 71 felony counts
46: 0 felony counts
Please forward to you favorite Republican politician or Fox or Newsmax reporter and ask if he or she can see a pattern here.
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omg Bob and all these sheep wake up! Trump did nothing wrong by the presidential records act. Clinton and Biden are real criminals who were not the president and had classified information. Do you not see how this is not election interference going after the rival party top candidate? 99% of you idiots in here literally believed trump was a russian spy or russia was involved, liesssss!!!!!!
Pandoras box is opened, the precedent has now been set. Now when Obama, Clinton, Bidens etc are arrested people will see why.
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The Presidential Records Act (PRA) . . .
• Requires that the President and his staff take all practical steps to file personal records separately from Presidential records.
• Establishes that Presidential records automatically transfer into the legal custody of the Archivist (the National Archives and Records Administration) as soon as the President leaves office. In other words, Presidential records are NOT to be in the custody of the ex-President.
• Does not allow an ex-President to make decisions about where and how Presidential records are to be stored; those determinations are to be made solely by the Archivist, who has legal custody of them.
• Does not allow classified documents to be treated as personal records.
• Does not allow the ex-President to retain—i.e., to be in possession of–classified information.
• Does not allow the President to blanket declassify or mentally declassify documents without following an official declassification procedure.
• Does not allow the President to share classified information with persons who lack security clearances that allow them access to said documents.
So, Trump was ILLEGALLY in possession of highly classified documents, obstructed the return of these documents by moving and hiding them, made false statements to federal officials via his attorneys to further obstruct their return, and held them in highly unsecured locations (a bathroom, a ballroom) in a freaking beach club with HUNDREDS of foreign employees. Gee, it would be so difficult for a foreign intelligence operative to master the skills necessary to pose as a janitor and defeat the breathtakingly sophisticated technology of a bathroom door lock.
But here’s the worst of it: His holding onto these documents and showing them to unauthorized persons–revealed by Trump himself on tape–are violations of the Espionage Act. Some of these documents were nuclear secrets; some were war plans; some revealed methods and sources, including human sources, of U.S. intelligence operations. And who knows to whom he traded this information. Why did the Saudis decide to give 2 billion dollars to Trump’s son-in-law and create a new golf league that would hold its events at Trump Resorts? Why did Mohammed bin Hacksaw decide to do Those Things? What was the quid pro quo there?
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How to identify a cultist: He or she is impervious to actual information (see the explanations, above, of current charges against Don the Con, of the Presidential Records Act, and of the Espionage Act.
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The Presidential Records Act requires all presidents to place all their records in the National Archives. They are not allowed to take with them any presidential records. None.
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Ok Diane and Bob, let’s focus on the true criminal Biden. Why did Biden have hundreds of boxes when he was NOT president and Obama did not come out and throw any support. Clinton deleted 33,000 classified emails and bleach bit etc. Always Trump who is the bad guy, Jack Smith is legit worst person to have on the case his wife is a huge donor to Obama and was overruled by the supreme court unanimously in a case where he overreached.
So why are you quiet about Biden, hypocrites? Total hypocrites. Where do you get your news besides the fake news you have been watching like brainwashed sheep?
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Biden was a Senator. He gave all his papers to the University of Delaware.
When his lawyers found classified documents in his garage, he immediately gave them to the National Archives.
Mike Pence did the same.
Trump was not indicted for taking boxes of classified documents.
He was indicted for refusing to return them, then lying and saying he didn’t have more when he did.
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And for disclosing them illegally to persons without security clearances and for conspiring to hide them
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This is purest whataboutism, Josh, and the situations are not comparable. It was entirely wrong for Clinton to have official correspondence as Secretary of State on a private email server, but what she didn’t have there–at least we have no evidence of this–is classified documents. The 1,800 boxes belonging to Biden that pathological liar Don the Con keeps referencing were papers from his years as a Senator and DID NOT contain classified information. Those papers are NOT GOVERNED BY THE PRESIDENTIAL RECORDS ACT, OBVIOUSLY. The papers kept by the seditionist convicted sex offender Trump were presidential records belonging to the National Archives and not to him and included WELL OVER A HUNDRED highly classified documents, including ones relating U.S. war plans, nuclear secrets, and sources and methods of U.S. intel. So, you are comparing a scraped knee to colon cancer. But this is typical Trumpish misdirection. Fools fall for it.
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Biden’s papers from his years as a Senator are of historical interest, so he donated them to the University of Delaware. But they DID NOT and COULD NOT contain classified information and they are not covered by and in violation of the Presidential Records Act and the Espionage Act. The papers Trump attempted to hide at Mar-a-lago and lord knows where else DID contain highly classified information and were covered by the Presidential Records Act (which meant that they weren’t his to keep) and by the Espionage Act (which means that keeping any one of them was an extremely serious FELONY).
And all this you would know if you actually listened to or read news instead of Trumpanzee propaganda.
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And I am far from “quiet about Biden.” I have excoriated him numerous times on this blog for opposing Medicare for All, some version of which every other industrial democracy has some version of and that provides better coverage for half the cost.
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yay, Bob! That’s all? Not for being the true sexual predator showering with kids and touching kids inappropriately. Not for Taking 10’s of millions of bribes like his crackhead pedo son? Not for being the true racist ” I will put yall back in chains.” Not for leaving billions of dollars of brand new military equipment for the taliban and leaving soldiers to die? Not for the ww3 state we are in north korea sending missiles (trump they were not doing that). China is about to onvade Taiwan. Not for the stock market tanking and inflation 20%? Not for insane energy prices?
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Josh, you are deranged. Seriously. This is what haoppens when you suck on the pipe from not-so-Breitbart and Newsmax for too long. It does serious damage.
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Are you referring to Jim Jordan or to Catholic priests?
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Trump did say that he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue an his fans like josh would be fine with it.
josh, you obviously don’t care about sexual predators and pedophiles because if you did you would not be such a big fan of Matt Gaetz and Jim Jordan and Putin, mass murderer of Ukraine children.
I’m sorry you have to live in a country like Russia.
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He didn’t mention Gaetz or Jordan or Putin, did he?
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