Veteran journalist John Merrow poses the ethical dilemma of the journalist: if you see a child drowning, do you save the child or take a great photo? He says, you act as a citizen and save the child.
Thus, he criticizes Bob Woodward for saving his tapes of Trump lying about the severity of COVID. Woodward saved them for his book, knowing that the book would make lots more money than an article that released the tapes. Telling the truth months ago might have saved lives, so Trump and Woodward are both complicit in the coverup.
Diane Ravitch's blog 
And if Woodward had gone public immediately and found that 45 lied again, there would be egg on his face. It takes time to verify and do a deep fact check.
If Woodward had asked about his November hospital trip, would he have gotten the truth?
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Thank you, John Merrow. I have thought the same.
Agree. “Telling the truth months ago might have saved lives, so Trump and Woodward are both complicit in the coverup”
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I won’t try to answer that question as it it put.
However, I will say that, considering the tsunami of lies and distortions that we have been swamped with since Trump was sworn in and before; and given how fast each new crisis disappears from the minds of his cult-minded base, it seems to me that the TIMING of this disclosure is extremely important–regardless of Woodward’s intent . . .
It’s sort of like Comey’s timing of his address to the nation right before the last election: the truth in Woodward’s book MAY have the just-lasting-enough effect on voters’ minds that is needed right now. To put it bluntly, I doubt any of his base would have listened. We keep thinking there are reasonable people over there . . . wrong.
Also, at the time of the Woodward-Trump interview, the rolling death rate was projected, but not yet as real as it is now. Despite our being overwhelmed and so-inured to all of the assaults on the integrity of democracy that we have experienced, we CAN now get our minds around the sheer numbers, and that it didn’t go away, and hope to wake a sleeping National conscience.
I do not want to separate means from ends here; but there IS the awful-monster possibility of a continued Trump presidency. This is all regardless of Woodward’s intention, or his publisher–red herrings . . . doesn’t matter. CBK
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ADDENDUM: I do not mean to imply that Comey was right to speak when it did, or that he had some truth in his reopening of the Hillary investigation. I don’t think he was right, and it turned out to be naught.
My point is that the timing made a difference in the election. CBK
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We do not know what type of evil the Trump team is planning, but we do know it includes interfering with mail-in voting and suppressing the vote. Trump has also stacked the courts with his right wing extremists. All are positioned to create the type of chaos on which Trump thrives.
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Well, the endtimes are surely upon us. I actually agree with Merrow.
But then, had he exposed Rhee sooner instead of promoting her….
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That was my reaction at first, too, but then CBK pointed out that timing has probably played a major role in the impact the info is having. With almost 200,000 Americans dead, it is much harder to ignore Trump’s incompetence.
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If Woodward had revealed the tapes months ago, Trump’s support base would have stayed around 42%. The only thing that would have changed is the anger of the Never-Trump crowd would have gotten worse.
The polls are stuck and nothing Trump does will change them.
There is one thing that might cause some but not all of Trump’s supporters to walk away from him and that is if Fauz (FOX) turned against him 100% along with the likes of Hannity, Limbaugh, Bech, Alex Jones, et al. And, if even 100 million Americans died from the virus in the next sixty days, those monsters will never turn against their chosen god.
Don’t believe me. Click one or both of the links and just stare at the chart that represents Trump’s disapproval and approval rating since January 2017. The gap fluctuates. The only time it came close was in March when COVID-19 hit and the people rallies to support the president of the United States. That rally would have happened for any president no matter what their name was, but if that president had been Clinton, the rally of support would have been a lot stronger than it was for Trump.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/adults/
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/trump_favorableunfavorable-5493.html
And while we waste time trashing Woodward, the Russians are hard at work supporting Trump again. The focus should be on the election and defeating Trump. With more than 20,000 lies since January 2017, what are a few more Trump lies that we could have learned about a few months earlier than we have.
Get out the vote. Defeat Trump.
Once Trump is defeated and gone, remember this, as long as Trump lives he will be back every four years to run again for that second term. As long as Trump is alive and has a semi-working brain, he will never go away. He is going to haunt the world with his tweets and rate rallies as long as he possibly can because he is addicted to the attention.
Donad Eek Thinly Skin Always Lying and Cheating Trump is the dark god of lies and hate. Do not be surprised if his hardcore followers do not start a religion to worship him.
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YAMBSOHISOM
Yet Another Messenger Blaming Sleight Of Hand In Service Of Misdirection
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Who knows what went through Woodward’s mind.
But the issue is not just that 1,000s died. The root cause of it is the president’s twisted rationalization of downplaying the deadly virus.
Early release of Woodward’s information would not have saved lives; but now it may (please) save democracy and 4 years of destroying America as we knew it – flaws and all.
If he released the president’s quotes in March, April, or May – it would be portrayed as another “sky is falling” accusation about the president. One news cycle, denial or walkl-back, and forgotten.
Earlier release, he president back tracks or probably does nothing because it was not news at the time., 1,000s had not died -yet. And, C’mon, the guy told people to drink poison and we heard him say it was a hoax and the common cold. Who cares what his self-serving rationale was.
So yet another O’Henry-esque moment in this nightmare.
If Woodward releases it in April, no one pays attention and thousands die.
Woodword waits until now to release it, thousands still have died, but NOW people are paying attention.
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Who know$ what goe$ through Woodward’$ mind?
Who know$ what goe$ through Woodward’$ mind?
The an$wer’$ really hard to find
When Woodward wait$
And wait$ and wait$
Until the choice$t
Book$ale$ date$
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Correct.
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Wasn’t Woodward locked in to a contract with his publisher?
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Trumpsters were doing damage control with a parallel script. It goes like this:
If Woodward did not release the tapes right away, there was a good reason. Trump’s decisions were not that terrible. Check out the reports on Fox news.
The spin doctors “on both sides” are at work. Liberals are condemning him for not releasing the tapes and possibly saving lives. Fans of Trump have concluded that Woodward’s tapes prove that Trump is not so bad after all.
In any case, Trump is just ignoring the Woodward tapes and continuing his campaign road trips condemning Biden, liberals, lefties, throwing around lies and getting his fans to chant “We Love You, We Love You.” Read the transcript of Trump’s Speech in Freedland Michigan, September 10.
He says “ Joe Biden devoted his career to offshoring Michigan’s jobs.” …”Joe Biden surrendered your jobs to China and now he wants to surrender our country to the violent left wing mob and you’re seeing that every night.”…
“If Biden wins, the mob wins. If Biden wins, the rioters, anarchist, arsonist and flag burners win.”… “Not only does Joe Biden want to eliminate your jobs, he wants to eliminate your borders.”…” He’s also pledged to terminate all national security travel bans, overwhelming your state with poorly vetted migrants from jihadist regions.”
“You have sleepy Joe and you have Trump. Sleepy Joe, he’s a beauty. He’s a beauty. He’s a beauty.”…”Biden and his party tried to lock law-abiding Americans into their homes while they encourage rioters and vandals rampaging through, in all cases, Democrat-run cities.”…” If Joe Biden is elected, far left lunatics won’t just be running failed Democrat city, they’ll be running the Department of Justice, the Department of Homeland Security, and the United States Supreme Court, and we can’t let that happen.”
There are 45 references to Biden in that vein and those personal attacks and lies are surrounded with exaggerated claims about how great Trump and his policies have been for all of Michigan’s patriots, auto workers, people living in the suburbs, and the American People.
Trump devotes about one minute to the “China” virus. “You see what’s happening. You see the numbers are plunging. You see how good we’re doing relative to other countries and other parts of the world, but the fake news doesn’t like saying that. They don’t like telling you that.”
Trump chooses to ignore the Woodward tapes, the deaths from the virus, his demeaning comments about those who serve in the military. He is on the road perfecting his misrepresentations of Biden and Democrats. He and his fans …who chant “We Love You” are impervious to anything that should make a human being feel shame.
https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/donald-trump-freeland-mi-campaign-rally-speech-transcript-september-10
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Trump’s followers are a cult. They are impervious to anything that contradict their devout love of their messiah.
He alone can save them, they think.
If Woodward had released the tapes last March, no one would have cared. The number of deaths would have been small as compared to now. Now, as we approach 200,000 dead, Trump’s inaction and lying are appalling.
But I don’t think his base will care. Hopefully there are enough independents who will.
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Diane A couple of things: (1) where is our president as the West is literally burning down? (I can guess what he and his cult-followers think about that.)
(2) In a vein of explanation, I think the complexity of the world, as we are living in it now, has revealed a fault-line in the thought of way-too-many people. That fault-line is about the difference between (a) belief and (b) understanding for oneself.
At the core of it, those who people Trump’s base are in a crisis of belief–whom to believe? . . . rather than having the habit and where-with-all to think their way into the complexities of living where the truth is there, but (as we all know) more and more difficult to get at.
It’s more and more difficult to to understand for ourselves. Easier just to pick someone who makes worthy promises and who appeals to all my fears and desires than to do the hard work of thinking through the complexity for ourselves. It’s so tiring.
Enter: cult mentality. “Don’t make me think . . . too difficult, and I’m not in the habit.” <–and there we see the place for education, if we still have a chance at it. CBK
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I think Trump is hoping that the 7% who are undecided will vote for him, but I doubt they will because I have yet to see indications of a trend where Trump is actually gaining new supporters.
I think many in that 7% undecided see themselves as Independents and are thinkers, which bodes well for Biden & 3rd party candidates. I don’t see Trump putting a dent in the nearly 3M more popular votes that Hillary got over him. Biden had better visit and address the concerns of people in fly-over country though, in order to get the majority of electoral college votes this time.
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Catherine King: I don’t think Trump’s followers are in a crisis of belief. They were always and still are in the camp of those looking to a leader/ govt to do their thinking for them.
I often recall my mother’s trying to explain to me the mindset of the ‘50’s & long before. [This was in the late ‘60’s, when I would present her with evidence of govt lying about current events in VN, bolstered by my historical reading of Chinese/ Vietnamese relations.] She said she was raised to believe that the govt always had access to far more facts than the populace, so one should simply follow their lead.
But, a member of an academic family, she was encouraged to think for herself. The U-2 Gary Powers incident [1960] was the first time she was aware of the govt lying to the people– was still trying to digest that, and begin thinking more deeply.
She was a well-educated, intelligent woman [would have been 92 now]. Raised conservative/ Republican, bought into post-WWII anti-communism primarily because of USSR’s suppression of religion & practice of govtl dominance over individual voice/ vote. It took her another 30+ yrs—until Bush’s admin—to recognize fully the cynical, anti-public-goods neoliberalism long afoot in the Rep party [she began voting Dem for the 1st time halfway thro that admin.] Many of her generation, and their children – boomers, so there are many– lack her advantages or perspective.
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bethree5 I love reading your mother’s story. It points to what I said in my note, however–too many have NOT undergone the slow change and encouragement towards thoughtfulness that your mother and many of us underwent because of our time and specific circumstances. And look at the difference in EARNED government trust (and belief) between (1) WWII and even Korea, and then (2) Vietnam. Here’s that part of your note again with my highlights:
“I often recall my mother’s trying to explain to me the mindset of the ‘50’s & long before. [This was in the late ‘60’s, when I would present her with evidence of govt lying about current events in VN, bolstered by my historical reading of Chinese/ Vietnamese relations.] She said she was raised to believe that the govt always had access to far more facts than the populace, so one should simply follow their lead.
“But, a member of an academic family, she was encouraged to think for herself. The U-2 Gary Powers incident [1960] was the first time she was aware of the govt lying to the people– was still trying to digest that, and begin thinking more deeply.
I think between the 50’s and now, many people have missed that incremental movement; and so now when they have had years of not paying attention to politics, they experience the complexity that slowly crept up on your mother (and many in that time period) as overwhelming–hence a crisis in belief–so many are just not prepared to “think for themselves.” Too busy watching game shows and the Kardashians. CBK
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I disagree. If the material had been made public a few months ago, it would have all been forgotten by now. I believe that closer to the election might help some people to remember, especially as we now approach 200,000 deaths.
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Agree.
Adding, when Trump told people not to believe the truth that others were telling, it was worse than his lying about the severe Covid consequences.
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If Woodward had publicized what he knew, that would have been the end of the interviews. Trump wanted to speak to him and Woodward got a lot more information.
There were plenty of voices telling the rottenness of Trump and his administration. One more most likely wouldn’t have been heard.
His base still doesn’t care even though audios and recordings prove that Trump is a two-faced liar. It is coming out just in time for the Nov. 3 election. Hopefully [doubtful] this will have some impact on independents who are wavering.
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It wouldn’t have made a difference in deaths if Woodward had released the tapes earlier. Trump’s base would still have been supportive of him and the Never Trumpers would have still listened to Dr. Fauci and continued wearing masks and social distancing. This is probably the best time to use the tapes >when there are doubters that need a reason to vote for Biden.
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Yes, this isn’t about saving lives since Trump would have done then as he did then and just continued on saying COVID-19 was a big nothingburger and if you don’t want to wear your mask, you don’t have to and come to my rallies and feel free to bring your assault weapons to storm state capitals and threaten to murder people if anyone tries to limit your freedom to infect anyone you want.
The rest of us who actually listened to the scientists knew Trump was lying, then. The scientists made that clear and so did many others.
Trump’s supporters heard hundreds of times that Trump was lying when he said he had proof that Obama was born in Kenya and was an illegitimate president and they knew Trump swindled them when he took their hard earned money for Trump U. and for his fake “foundation to spend money on Trump”. But Trump’s supporters are very sensitive “snowflakes” and they recognize their own “snowflake-ness”– which is why they are so thrilled that Trump recognizes the sensitivity and cowardice and weakness of all his supporters and lies to them the way Trump supporters so desperately need.
At least Trump supporters are now being honest about how feeble, delicate and oversensitive they are and how much they desperately need a liar president who understands they are just scared little babies and far too stupid and cowardly to handle facts. Trump treats them the way they know they deserve to be treated.
No one needs to insult a Trump supporter because they actually insult themselves when they insist that they need to be lied to because they are weak and fragile baby snowflakes who can’t handle facts. Trump supporters identify that way to themselves, so I guess there’s nothing more to add to their own vision of themselves.
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Today, on a state lake near us, there was a Trump flotilla- Trump supporters would be hypocrites for partying on tax-funded property except, they are cult followers and likely lack the principles required to be hypocrites.
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“At least Trump supporters are now being honest about how feeble, delicate and oversensitive they are and how much they desperately need a liar president who understands they are just scared little babies and far too stupid and cowardly to handle facts. Trump treats them the way they know they deserve to be treated.’
Oh, I just LOVE this, nycpsp! OMG, have you got their number!!
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So what would cause a president supporter to not vote or vote for Biden?
Something that affects them or their family.
You’d think the taxpayers paying for his personal lawsuits would be it for some who don’t care about social issues but despise taxes and waste.
Do the millions whose kids are not in school realize HE is the reason? Do they get it that if the man had done his job this thing would not have spread and spike in his too-early re-open states and their kids would be in school?
Are they really ok with his visually mocking individuals who are disabled, disparaging the John McCains in the military?
Do these suburban families he is so determined to protect from outsiders going to be ok when books start leaving their progressive schools’ library shelves – and hinder their college futures?
Good question, Mr. Merrow. No one would have paid attention months ago. Good or bad reason – asked and answered.
The only thing that matters now is preventing more deaths and getting this dangerous, dangerous man out of the WH and the Senators and Representatives who are silent and complicit in every statement the man makes out of office.
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So a woman comes forward and says he raped her in the 1990s.
And Attorney General Barr says that the Justice Department will defend Trump, relieving him of the expense of his own defense, because it always protects the president in the execution of his duties.
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Wait, What? Here’s the response I got to a similar narrative. You write: “You’d think the taxpayers paying for his personal lawsuits would be it for some who don’t care about social issues but despise taxes and waste.”
Response: “They hate Trump. What do you expect them to say”? CBK
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Why did Trump save his post hoc “I didn’t want to create a panic” rationale until after the Woodward tape came out? He could have uncorked it months ago to justify his failure to tell THE AMERICAN PEOPLE the truth.
Yes, Woodward has some ethical explaining to do that goes beyond his journalistic standards of cautious investigation, Ironically, perhaps, by withholding his revelation, he was just “following the money” that would accrue to his bank account.
But I don’t see anything approaching equivalence between Trump and Woodward’s non-disclosure.
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I agree. As others have said, if Woodward released the recordings earlier, they would be forgotten by now. Fake news.
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Linda, Here in Cincinnati, the early local news was all about a caravan for Trump, huge pickup trucks, SUV’s, and small campers. All surfaces of these vehicles were plastered with TRUMP, American flags, and Eagles with see-through signage over windows as needed.
The caravan will be circling Interstate 275 in the “slow” lane around Cincinnati, Northern Kentucky, and Southern Indiana. Some of the participants will be from West Virginia and Tennessee. So, no matter how he lies, his fans are out and loud. The coordinated effort with boats owners is not surprising.
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I think this was the perfect time. That lying mongrel has had his moment to demonstrate beyond a shadow of a doubt — to history and to anyone who is really connected to observable reality — what he is capable of conjuring!
This is the perfect time, just at he he is about to appear again, in a debate with the man who can defeat him, we can hear him — HIS behavior defined by his own mouth. Dialogue defines Behavior and this man’s behavior–out theer for all to at see at once (as opposed to bits and pieces, daily media entertainment of this” baby” – as he pooped his way through our lives. “Baby’ is to him the ultimate insult. and yet his sullen, cruel behavior is that of a young child who never learned to respect truth and admire real competence. Here again is that mouth at work..showing us who he is, as Woodward did: .
https://www.mediaite.com/news/watch-98-times-trump-disparaged-babies-by-using-them-as-an-insult/
Woodward, Strzok. Mary Trump, and several other books expose the back story, in detail, in 2020, where nothing gets lost.. here is the man who would be Emperor DEclothed.
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Susan Lee Schwartz: This teacher voted for Trump in 2016 and now says he is no role model for children. Better late than never to change one’s mind.
……………………………………………
Pennsylvania teacher who voted for Trump in 2016 takes her regrets very public
**AFT Jane Classroom Morals
Aug 31, 2020
AFTHQ
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Susan….I wonder if he will lurk and pace menacingly behind Biden like he did with HRC? I can’t believe the debate moderators let Trump get away with that. He should have been told to sit down and wait his turn. Although I didn’t care for HRC’s politics (yes, I still voted for her), I felt terrible that she was treated that way. I wonder if he will try to physically bully Biden in the same manner?
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Moderators should have ordered him to be seated in the interest of civil discourse. If he refused, they should have ended the debate!
It would have modified his behavior or stopped Trump in his tracks.
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Probably will, Lisa M, But Biden can pull a fast one–he can quickly turn around & loudly proclaim, Travis Bickle-style (Robert DeNiro’s taxi driver in…Taxi Driver), “You stalkin’ to me? **You STALKIN’ to ME?!”
I think that would surprise, startle & stun it45. (Tee-hee.)
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Agreed, Lisa. His bullying during that debate was astonishing. He clearly wanted to assert his manhood and make her look weak. The moderators should have told him to go back to his place behind his podium.
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The debates are a reality show that boosts network ratings.
Trump’s behavior met and even exceeded the expectations of the networks covering it.
In order to get decent moderators , the two major parties would have to go back to having the League of Women voters running the debates.
But they won’t because the League would never put up with the circus that the debates have become. In fact, the League was very prescient in predicting the path that the debates would take, which is why they got out.
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Exactly. DAM.
Both parties wrested the debates away from the League of Women Voters. The debates have truly become a circus, loaded with “Gotcha” questions and sound bites that clog up the 24-hour news cycle.
And fact-checking flies out the window, depending on whom the corporate sponsors support. This was evident in the Biden-Sanders debate.
I, for one, have turned off the corporate/cable news channels for the last two months, and will not watch the debates. The die-hard Bidenites have succeeded, for the most part, in silencing me and other progressives who dared to raise valid criticisms of what the DNC is offering us.
Yet I am accused by some in this forum of basically being a closeted #45 supporter because I don’t criticize the Marmalade Menace often enough. I know how malevolent he is. But that doesn’t mean that Mr. Biden gets a free pass.
The DNC we have today has drifted far to the right of its FDR roots. I’ve watched it happen over the last 44 years that I’ve been voting. I guess I’m just an impatient, cranky person, because I haven’t given my party enough time.
Perhaps my criticisms will be valid if I wait another 44 years? /s
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Any debate with Trump should have clear rules with consequences like losing a turn or a reduced number of minutes for him to reply. He acts like a ten year old so he should be treated as such.
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When Michael Dukakis lost the election to G. H. W. Bush because he got a “gotcha” debate question asking what he would do if his wife was raped and murdered, I guess the League of Women Voters approved?
When Ronald Reagan defeated Jimmy Carter in his debates and got huge legitimacy, that was because the League of Women Voters ran the perfect debate that “helped” viewers understand that Reagan was far superior to Jimmy Carter?
Eleanor says: “The die-hard Bidenites have succeeded, for the most part, in silencing me and other progressives who dared to raise valid criticisms of what the DNC is offering us.”
Are you really suggesting that African American voters are “silencing” your ability to demonize the candidate they supported so that voters will do what they did in 2016 and enable Trump and the Republican party a wholesale takeover of democracy? How dare you accuse African American voters of “silencing” you? Is Cornel West being “silenced” and that’s why he isn’t joining in your demonizing of Biden and false claims that Biden is so far to the right of Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter that we must do nothing but attack and demonize Biden and the entire democratic party (which of course includes AOC and her squad and every other progressive democrat)?
Part of what tells me you are not genuine is that your racist dismissal of African American voters as “the DNC” and therefore you mischaracterize the candidate that won with their support in the same way that some other white people who dismiss concern with racism as “identity politics” do. You are the one who keeps trying your hardest to disenfranchise African American voters by implying that they should not be allowed to vote in the primary unless they vote for the candidate you decide they should be supporting. I’m sorry, but your repeat of right wing talking points to demonize Biden sounds just like any Trump voter. I’m sorry that you are so angry that African American voters supported a different candidate than you wanted in the primary. But just because you are angry enough at those voters to help re-elect the racist Trump doesn’t mean you get to do it without your exaggerated attacks and dishonest characterizations being called out for the lies they are.
Contrary to your assertion that Jimmy Carter and LBJ won elections on leftist platforms with every corporate and Wall Street CEO opposing them, it just isn’t true. I assume you also are glad that the supposedly reprehensible and “neoliberal” Jimmy Carter was demonized as a corrupt tool of Wall Street and corporations so voters “understood” how evil Jimmy Carter was before they decided whether to vote for Carter or Reagan. Did you like how that worked out? Remember when Nixon defeated Hubert Humphrey because Hubert Humphrey was supposedly so corrupt and evil and such a tool of Wall Street and a warmonger, too, just like LBJ. Did you like how that worked out?
If you want to know how to raise “valid criticisms”, then read Diane Ravitch or Cornel West or Michael Moore or AOC or Bernie Sanders. None of them use the dishonest, lie-filled right wing talking points that you do because the right wing talking points you use serve only one purpose which is NOT to make the country more progressive, but to demonize Biden so Trump wins and makes the country even more right wing than it already is.
I assume that’s what you want. I’m not trying to silence you but I am trying to expose you as the supporter of the right wing agenda that you are either intentionally or perhaps unintentionally trying to empower.
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^^^I fact-checked my own post because I believe in being truthful, and I was wrong — the League of Women Voters was originally supposed to sponsor the 1988 debate between Dukakis and Bush but chose not to. So they are not at fault for the “gotcha” question about his wife that sunk Dukakis.
I was surprised to learn that the ONLY Presidential debates the LWV sponsored were in 1976 (Carter/Ford), 1980 (Carter/Reagan) and 1984 (Reagan/Mondale). Given that short history and the fact that Ronald Reagan was legitimized and Carter and Mondale “lost” in the years of LWV-sponsored debate, it’s hard to say that the LWV was the model forum.
In fact, the debates in 1992 are what legitimized Bill Clinton and sunk George Herbert Walker Bush, so they could not have been all bad despite not being sponsored by the LWV. We have Ruth Bader Ginsburg because of debates that weren’t sponsored by LWV.
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Wait a minute. You are saying because the League didn’t orchestrate the debates in such a way that the “preferred” candidate won, that they did a poor job of moderating? Is it at all possible that the candidates had anything to do with it? I have no memory of the debates, but I know the League is unlikely to have taken a partisan position.
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speduktr,
Not sure if you are responding to me, but I think that the LWV did a fine job with the debates, but I’m not idealizing it because when I looked it up I saw that LWV only sponsored debates during 3 elections that weren’t particularly in formats that enlightened viewers more than the debates now. I don’t think that the LWV format allowed for any real insight into Reagan or Carter, just like debates since 1984 haven’t been particularly useful.
Sadly, it doesn’t seem like debates change people’s minds — it just reinforces whatever they want to believe. Or when they do change people’s minds, it is to legitimize candidates like Ronald Reagan or GW Bush.
What debate forum would ever convince Trump supporters he was not their savior? They don’t care if he lies and they don’t care who dies. I hated when Trump stalked HRC, but she still gave an extraordinary debate performance and “won” it to all who saw it who weren’t already predisposed to decide she was a crook because they bought into propaganda they read elsewhere.
I actually think that Joe Biden should say “I won’t debate a liar whose lies resulted in the deaths of nearly 200,000 Americans. If Trump wants to promise not to lie — and I don’t think Trump is capable of doing so – I will gladly debate him. But the American people already know they shouldn’t trust anything Donald Trump says, whether it is one of his speeches or during a debate.”
And all democrats – from Bernie to AOC to Pelosi, etc. should repeat that talking point. “Biden will debate Trump whenever Trump promises to stop lying to the American people”. Said over and over again until the American people get sick of hearing it but can’t help but remember it.
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@Eleanor 8:59 am 9/13: Well I guess I’m a bit older than you: 49 yrs voting here. I remember fondly ‘70’s days when I could pick among both Dem & Rep contenders at all levels of govt & find a mix that suited me. I registered Dem only because I was living in NYC at the time, & that was where the action was.
No question Dems have veered far to the right: I peg the change pretty early, when McGovern lost in a landslide [& Muske was picked off for “tears”]. Dems were so worried about appearing “liberal” after that, they rushed to the right under cover of “Third Way” smoke & mirrors. Meanwhile Reagan ushered in populism/ popularity of ultra-right libertarianism, casting Dems’ to once-central-Rep policies in concrete.
I blame the whole spectrum’s move right on our govt’s pusillanimous response to the twin economic threats of automation and globalism in the late ‘70’s-‘80’s. Just as we see now w/the pandemic, there was no concerted fed attempt to address serious challenges head-on & consider how to counter w/policies that would shore up prosperity for middle/ working classes. They set the stage for every crisis to come: loosen regs, let $ trickle up to the top, establish a 1% so $clouty that they could dictate policy to preserve the big pieces they grabbed from the shrinking pie & to hell w/everyone else.
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OK, I’ve read it three times now just to make sure I wasn’t jumping to conclusions or being unfair.
Merrow’s piece is, without question, the stupidest thing I’ve seen on this or any other blog, wacky comments included, in many years. You know who else knew what Woodward learned in February and March? Dr. Anthony Fauci (head of NIAID), Dr. Francis Collins (head of NIH), HHS Sec. Alex Azar, HHS Asst. Sec. Adm. Brett Giroir, CDC Director Robert Redfield, FDA Commissioner Steven Hahn, Dr. Deborah Birx, Vice President Mike Pence, and every senior scientist working on this issue at every federal health agency. And Woodward is the villain. Since Merrow claims to be a journalist–after this garbage, that claim is obviously wishful thinking–he should know that in order to get to the real story, you have to hold in certain cards to get the complete picture. And unlike the list above, Woodward did not take an oath to defend the Constitution, you know, to act to secure the general welfare of the We the People…
Tripe, pure tripe. But that’s just my opinion. Probably worth nothing since I am not a journalist. Jeesh.
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I don’t underestimate Woodward’s accomplishment, as you do, Greg. He got Trump to say on tape that he lied about the seriousness of the virus. He knew it was deadly, and he deliberately “played it down” to avoid “panic.” Meanwhile, he has been trying to create panic about caravans of rapists and murderers heading for the border, about black people moving into white suburbs, about terrorists and Antifa. We have seen and heard him say totally stupid things about the virus–predicting it would magically disappear, and that 99% of people who got it emerged unscathed. Woodward got him to say on tape that he was lying.
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You misread my comment or I was not clear. I completely agree with you. The stupidity I refer to is Merrow’s “analysis.” To blame Woodward is just plain idiotic. That’s why I cited all those names. Merrow writes pure tripe here. He seems to assume that Woodward is more at fault than the Idiot and his enablers. It’s just plain embarrassing that he would write this. He mimics the Fox talking heads.
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Gotcha
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Should have read: And Woodward is the villain? (Sarcasm alert)
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Greg-
Thanks for making the point so clearly.
Shifting blame away from Trump is an oft-used tactic. Merrow delivered.
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Actually, Fred, I like your comment better than mine, but do any of us think that any of the “moderators” (do these so-called “moderators” actually have any real training in moderation of a debate? In the League of Women Voters, one has to have had moderator training to run a candidates’ forum) would actually do that (thus far, of course, it hasn’t been done). They should be–but are not real–moderators: most of them are celebrity network commentators/show hosts: can you picture Chuck Todd doing this? George Stephanopoulos?
Yegads! G.S. & ABC still employ Chris Christie–&, worse, Rahm Emanuel (“16 Shots & a Coverup” in the face of BLM?!)–who possess just the right “background” & “experience” (yeah, because they’re politicians, so they know it all) to make (wise?) comments & conversation.
Isn’t it very sad that so many real journalists & more qualified people are under & unemployed?
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Steve from CSPAN will be moderating debate #2. He is a real moderator.
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CDC is one more agency that Trump is actively working to destroy so that he can have false reports put out to the nation. He can’t win with the truth so falsify. UNBELIEVABLE!
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Political Appointees Meddled in C.D.C.’s ‘Holiest of the Holy’ Health Reports
Trump loyalists at the Health and Human Services Department have been exerting influence on the Centers for Disease Control’s weekly reports on all disease outbreaks, the coronavirus and beyond.
Sept. 12, 2020
WASHINGTON — Political appointees at the Department of Health and Human Services have repeatedly asked the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to revise, delay and even scuttle weekly reports on the coronavirus that they believed were unflattering to President Trump.
Current and former senior health officials with direct knowledge of phone calls, emails and other communication between the agencies said on Saturday that meddling from Washington was turning widely followed and otherwise apolitical guidance on infectious disease, the Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Reports, into a political loyalty test, with career scientists framed as adversaries of the administration….
Michael Caputo, a former Trump campaign official installed by the White House in April as the top department spokesman, said in a brief interview on Saturday that the person most involved in reshaping the Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Reports was Paul Alexander, an assistant professor of health research methods, evidence and impact at McMaster University in Canada and an adviser Mr. Caputo hired to help with him on the science of the pandemic.
“He digs into these M.M.W.R.s and makes his position known, and his position isn’t popular with the career scientists sometimes,” Mr. Caputo said. “That’s called science. Disagreement is science. Nobody has been ever ordered to do anything. Some changes have been accepted, most have been rejected. It’s my understanding that that’s how science is played.”
But Mr. Caputo and Dr. Alexander appeared to view the reports, which have presented dire new findings about the spread of the virus, as incompatible with the Trump administration’s push to move beyond the pandemic and present the country as on the upswing, officials said.
The New York Times interviewed five current and former federal health officials on Saturday with direct knowledge of efforts to warp the weekly reports. They spoke on the condition of anonymity to frankly discuss internal deliberations at the Department of Health and Human Services.
In an email obtained by Politico and confirmed by a person with direct knowledge of the message, Dr. Alexander accused C.D.C. scientists of trying to “hurt the president” with the reports, which he referred to as “hit pieces on the administration.” Dr. Alexander asked Dr. Robert R. Redfield, the C.D.C. director, to edit reports that had already been published, which he believed overstated the risks of the virus for children and undermined the administration’s efforts to encourage schools to reopen.
Mr. Caputo and Dr. Alexander also tried to stop the publication of a report — issued last week after a delay — on use of the malaria drug hydroxychloroquine, an unproven treatment that Mr. Trump and conservative allies have heralded and used as a kind of litmus test of resistance to scientific consensus. In discussions with the C.D.C., they questioned the political beliefs of the report’s authors…
Mr. Caputo, who is known to promote conspiracy theories, occupies a job at the health department typically conducted in an apolitical way, coordinating the messaging of an 80,000-person department that functions as the center of the American public health bureaucracy.
But since his arrival, during the biggest health crisis the department has ever faced, he has turned his office into what current and former senior administration officials have referred to as a bullying operation. Mr. Caputo still uses social media to attack reporters and Democratic politicians…
The efforts were an attempt to write an alternate reality into official C.D.C. literature, one of the former senior health officials said
One C.D.C. scientist working on the coronavirus response said in an interview on Saturday that some career officials at the agency were so fed up with political meddling that they were considering resigning. Political officials have repeatedly tried to undermine the research of C.D.C. employees, the scientist said, even going as far as canceling interviews with the news media before the release of high-profile reports, depriving them of the chance to explain their own work….
Another study suggesting the novel coronavirus was in the United States in December — not January, as health officials have said — has been ready since June 30 but still has not been published, this official said…
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Thank god CDC is only one reporter of covid stats. We have also not only Johns Hopkins nationally, but countless local sources reporting stats directly from county pubhealth orgs & regional hospitals. Those are the sources for my town’s covid website reporting on what’s happening right here where I live. They are reporting on-the-ground stats from county testing facilities & regional hospitals.
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I really wonder if this country is ever going to get rid of COVID-19.
I saw a photo of an older man, wearing a MAGA hat & large tattoos on his arm, on oxygen in the Sturgis Motorcycle Rally. He has to be nuts.
Trump wants distortion of reality and independent lunatics are free to do whatever they want.
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Sunday, September 13, 2020 1:00 am
Dakotas lead US in virus growth
Governors won’t mandate masks; health officials worried
STEPHEN GROVES and DAVE KOLPACK | Associated Press
SIOUX FALLS, S.D. – Coronavirus infections in the Dakotas are growing faster than anywhere else in the nation, fueling impassioned debates over masks and personal freedom after months in which the two states avoided the worst of the pandemic.
The argument over masks raged early this month in Brookings, South Dakota, as the city council considered requiring face coverings in businesses. The city was forced to move its meeting to a local arena to accommodate intense interest, with many residents speaking against it, before the mask requirement ultimately passed.
Health experts warn that the infections must be contained before care systems are overwhelmed. North Dakota and South Dakota lead the country in new cases per capita over the last two weeks, ranking first and second respectively, according to Johns Hopkins University researchers.
South Dakota has also posted some of the country’s highest positivity rates for COVID-19 tests in the last week – over 17% – an indication that there are more infections than tests are catching.
Infections have been spurred by schools and universities reopening and mass gatherings like the Sturgis Motorcycle Rally, which drew hundreds of thousands of people from across the country.
“It is not a surprise that South Dakota has one of the highest (COVID-19) reproduction rates in the country,” Brookings City Councilman Nick Wendell said as he commented on the many people who forgo masks in public.
The Republican governors of both states have eschewed mask requirements, tapping into a spirit of independence hewn from enduring the winters and storms of the Great Plains…
https://journalgazette.net/news/health/20200913/dakotas-lead-us-in-virus-growth
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The Governor of South Dakota has refused to abide by any public health protocols. She is a disaster for the people of her state.
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Since the super spreader event has gone national, I’d say the dishonorable Gov. Noem has proven to be a navel-gazing disaster for the people of this nation and possibly Canada.
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It should be underscored repeatedly that Trump, who knows no empathy whatsoever and cares only about money and power, was not concerned about causing a panic among the general population of people. What he meant was that he wanted to prevent a panic on Wall Street, because he was concerned about his base of donors in the ruling class, who have a lot of power by virtue of their wealth, and he thought he could ride a wave to re-election based on the economy.
I saw a documentary on the stock market crash of 1929 which said that one of the main reasons why it was so devastating was because the working class had been encouraged to invest in stocks then, so they too lost their shirts. Today, most working class people are struggling just to survive and don’t have disposable income, let alone money they need to park and can pump into Wall Street investments. So this is not the same economy today and it’s the rich who would be hurt if there’s another crash. They are the cronies of silver-spooned Trump, the people he cares about most and didn’t want to panic. He could not care less about people like most of us, who he considers to be losers –and worthy of death by COVID.
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We live in a dangerous world. Throughout it, strongmen–Bolsonaro, Modi, Duterte, MSB, Erdogan, Putin–have consolidated power unto themselves. Last year, India and China had military skirmishes, resulting in deaths of soldiers on both sides, along their border. Pakistan and India continue to fight along their border. Russia has developed hypersonic nuclear missiles and has rewritten its constitution to allow Vladimir Putin to remain president until 2036. China is vastly ramping up its military production, has created artificial islands in the South China Sea for deployment of planes and naval vessels, has cracked down on dissent in Hong Kong, has made Xi Jinping President for Life, is proceeding apace with its Belt and Road Initiative, is now imprisoning as many as a million Turkic Muslims in concentration camps, and now has a GDP, measured in purchasing power parity, larger than that of the United States. The U.S. and China are engaged in a terribly costly trade war, and China has just announced that it will be dumping U.S. debt.
And all this is occurring at a time when we have an idiot for president, one who has alienated all our allies, declared that a president can “do anything he wants,” has consistently sucked up to dictators, and said to India’s Modi, when he met with him in the now Offal Office in the now Whiter House, that it was a good thing that India had no border with China.
Four more years of Trump would be dangerous–extraordinarily dangerous on many, many fronts.
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cx: MBS
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That is the question about journalism and its role in creating truth. Truth is hard to create. It takes the notion of point of view. Often it creates this view in such a way as to bring a public figure to shame and political ruin.
But Woodward had already seen the mendacity of trump fall flat on its head. Trump supporters do not want truth, but myth. Woodward certainly saw the possibility of selling a trump book on the eve of the election. I assume he might have had the idea that he should hold the card to play it at an opportune time. But I agree with Lloyd’s view, suggested above. Trump supporters are not going to be swayed by this revelation. If that would do it, his approval ratings would be near zero.
I am ever more fearful that the growing right wing is becoming what the Clintons called a “vast, right wing conspiracy.” Emphasis on the vast. There are millions of his supporters who would indeed support him if he shot another person in broad daylight. They could be easily brought into line if he claimed the person was a drug dealer or something else his supporters considered reprehensible. Now if he shot a person in broad daylight and claimed it was because the person was a white supremacist about to kill innocents, maybe they would desert him. Otherwise he is in there.
Which brings me to the election. I believe that a narrow win for trump in the election will bring millions of people into the streets in protest. They are there already. I believe that a narrow loss that went against trump would bring all those parades back to places where he is popular, this time with guns blazing. Imagine the occupation of a city instead of Malehur Refuge. I am very worried. The only path I see to a peaceful transfer of government is a resounding repudiation of this president.
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Trump 2020 MAGA Message
My Country Right or Righter.
My People White or Whiter.
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And in this case, “My Country” is about ownership and exploitation, not civic virtue. “My People” is about subjects, not citizens.
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Six months into the pandemic, Taiwan is still getting rave reviews for its response. It had a unique advantage, going in: Its vice president, Chen Chien-jen, was also an epidemiologist.
We have VP Pence who wants us to pray the virus away.
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I still remember that Pence, as head of the Coronavirus Task Force for the federal government, predicted in no uncertain terms that the pandemic would be finished by Memorial Day. He didn’t say which year.
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Trump doesn’t care if people die as long as they don’t panic.
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Fred Smith: Oh, that’s a GOOD comment!!!
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carolmalaysia Yes, that comment has the sting of truth. Go ahead and die, but please don’t panic. CBK
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Better yet. Stay at home and die. No fuss, no mess.
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Diane The more we have emphasized testing, the more we have moved AWAY from children valuing their own interior development–which cannot be tested, though savvy teachers can recognize it when it occurs.
Also, an over-emphasis on testing tacitly leads children towards a transactional model of existence–they take a test and get a grade for it; then again, tacitly and bad or good, they tend to identify with whatever they “got.” I can exist now . . . I got an A.
Under this model, how can they possibly learn how to appreciate their own moments of very-human development, regardless “getting” something they can show others, instead of demonstrating and being proud of their own development? Those moments are much more lasting and constitutive of the person that “getting a good grade.” I am sure those moments still occur even in the worst formal-educational environments; however, it’s more and more difficult when everything formal, including the teacher, is aimed outward.
We can easily plug the above tacit educational omissions into the loss of the arts, humanities, history, and the social sciences. Who needs those when we want to produce thoughtless, transactional personalities and “workers,” or those whose bank account and power over others rank highest on their list of values. . . like Trump? CBK
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Great post, CBK. Hope you have it salted away for a re-post on ed-testing topics both here & at natl newsppr ed-reform articles.
I remember back in my mid-’60’s hisch being made aware that certain students’ intelligence wasn’t well-reflected on natl testing [pretty much only SATs at that point]. I was aware of a few student colleagues who got terrible SAT scores yet got into great schools by virtue of high GPA’s, teacher recommendations, & college interviews.
Fast-forward 40 yrs, thanks to IDEA laws & IEP’s [but before annual state-stdzd testing], my own kids got untimed testing accommodations that helped them get into college [where they did well]. The two elder had a general idea that they weren’t stupid, just different.
My youngest was accosted w/new state testing reqd to acquire hisch diploma. His SpEd angels spotted his weakness in math jr yr & scheduled him for back-to-back math classes sr yr that patched him through — but he was the one of my three that retained a sense of inferiority. He was the only one that got a college scholarship for his excellent GPA– but he felt “less than.” That was all about the testing.
I can only imagine the constant sense of inferiority reinforced by annual NCLB/ ESSA testing starting in 3rd grade. Regardless of IEP accomodations.
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Helping my students to realize that they weren’t stupid was always a battle. Very few of my special ed students were good test takers, and it was a constant struggle to get them to see themselves as more than those scores.
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So how many people have heard this pile of _________ and believe it? Roger Stone and Alex Jones are now telling people what to do if Trump doesn’t win the election.
Trump says, “”The only way the Democrats can win the election is if they rig it.”
This is pure evil by a moronic Trump who is freaking out.
……………………………………
Roger Stone to Donald Trump: bring in martial law if you lose election
By Martin Pengelly, Guardian UK
13 September 20
Trump meanwhile promises to ‘put down’ leftwing protests and says US Marshals killing Portland suspect was ‘retribution’
Roger Stone, whose 40-month prison sentence for lying to Congress and witness tampering in the Russia investigation was commuted by Donald Trump, has said Trump should seize total power and jail prominent figures including Bill and Hillary Clinton and Mark Zuckerberg if he loses to Joe Biden in November.
The long-time Republican dirty trickster, who has a tattoo of Richard Nixon on his back, offered the startling advice on Thursday, in a call to conspiracy theorist Alex Jones’s Infowars online show.
Stone was sentenced in part for lying about contacts with WikiLeaks during the 2016 election regarding emails hacked from Democratic party accounts. In turn, special counsel Robert Mueller and the Senate intelligence committee suspected Trump lied when he said he could not recall discussing the leaks with Stone.
Stone did not turn on the president. He had his sentence reduced on the recommendation of attorney general William Barr but he still faced prison before Trump acted. His conviction stands.
Both men were in Nevada on Saturday, Trump holding campaign events while Stone sought to raise money for himself.
Citing widely debunked claims of fraud around early voting, absentee balloting and voting by mail, Stone told Jones Trump should consider invoking the Insurrection Act and arresting the Clintons, former Senate majority leader Harry Reid, Zuckerberg, Tim Cook of Apple and “anybody else who can be proven to be involved in illegal activity”.
He also said: “The ballots in Nevada on election night should be seized by federal marshals and taken from the state. They are completely corrupted. No votes should be counted from the state of Nevada if that turns out to be the provable case. Send federal marshals to the Clark county board of elections, Mr President!”
Nevada has not gone to a Republican since 2004 but is shaping up to be a crucial contest this year. Biden leads there, but polls have tightened. On Saturday, after a planned rally in Reno was cancelled because of coronavirus restrictions, Trump staged an event which disregarded such strictures in Minden. His rhetoric was not far removed from that of the man he spared prison.
Attacking the Democratic Nevada governor, Steve Sisolak, Trump said: “This is the guy we are entrusting with millions of ballots, unsolicited ballots, and we’re supposed to win these states. Who the hell is going to trust him? The only way the Democrats can win the election is if they rig it.”
Stone said: “Governor Sisolak is a punk. He should not face down the president of the United States.”…
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/sep/13/roger-stone-to-donald-trump-bring-in-martial-law-if-you-lose-election
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This comes from Patriotic Times, that looney media that keeps people uninformed:
Andy Biggs has had enough of lockdown insanity.
Rep. Andy Biggs (R-AZ) is telling the people of Arizona that it is time to “unmask” and reject “oppressive” shutdown mandates related to COVID-19 mass hysteria.
He made the declaration on Wednesday in a series of Twitter posts:
Andy Biggs has had enough of lockdown insanity.
?ref_src=twsrctfw|twcamptweetembed|twterm1303742578068779009|twgrshare_3&ref_url=https://thepatriotictimes.com/house-leader-calls-for-revolution-over-useless-covid-mandates/
?ref_src=twsrctfw|twcamptweetembed|twterm1303521999877058560|twgrshare_3&ref_url=https://thepatriotictimes.com/house-leader-calls-for-revolution-over-useless-covid-mandates/
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Fred Smith: Your comments are spot-on.
it45 doesn’t like panic, but prefers deaths.,,especially of Dems, GOP & Independents who are going to vote for Biden & down-ballot Dems; the elderly (less Medicare–Medicare for none {left}!); people of color; middle class; immigrants; poor; homeless…
most of the country.
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I have to admit, the many posts here about “timing” of the release of these tapes are spot-on. I can’t quite believe Woodward’s self-defense, because surely he would have been able to verify whatever it was needed verifying by, say, June.
But Woodward is a man uniquely qualified to judge the fruit-fly lifecycle of ‘big stories.’ And cagey enough to get that Trumpistas would ignore it as ‘fake news’/ Trump-bashing at any point in time regardless, thus continuing to politicize/ ignore covid-safety measures & feed national community spread. [So NO: I don’t believe that putting this out there in early March would have changed anything– Trump would have just denied denied denied & followers would have taken his word way before any liberal journalist’s]. And smart enough to get this out before it qualified as an ‘October surprise,’ thus undermining it altogether.
On the whole, I have to commend Woodward: he has timed this as well as possible for an impact on the election. From what we know of Woodward, that is more likely his intention (as opposed to boosting sales of his book).
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Something struck me about the description/ tape-excerpts from Trump’s interviews w/Woodward, juxtaposed w/ clips from a current election rally heard in the same timeframe. In the former, Trump makes sense & speaks on point. In the latter, it’s the meandering, provocative word-salad we are used to hearing when he addresses his “core.”
Anti-Trump pundits periodically posit that Trump is “losing it” by contrasting videos from pre-presidential interviews on his political views w/rally clips or press meetings where he wanders off script. But I think the Woodward clips vs rally clips show something else. It45 responds to the audience. He does have resources of intelligence and immediate connection to reality—when elicited. He rises to the occasion presented. He can be caught out telling the truth, revealing deep concerns, in conversation with someone he respects/ admires. He tells lies, obfuscates, shows off to his “core.”
The “word-salad” delivery is a dead giveaway: he’s lying. He’s covering up, fooling, looking to put one over. He’s doing a Johanthan Lovitz. He has no respect for his “core,” & simply shines them on.
Please read Maureen Dowd’s latest column 9/12 column, “All the President’s Insecurities.” She has his number.
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bethree5 I think Trump took the recorded interviews with Bob Woodward for the simple reason Woodward is famous. CBK
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“This may be the most shameful moment in the history of U.S. science policy.”
https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/09/11/science.abe7391?rss=1
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There is no cure for STUPID!
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Video: RNC 2020: What young Republicans think of Trump BBC
With less than two months until the 2020 presidential election, the BBC asked young Republicans what they thought was his biggest achievement.But while many are fervent supporters of the president, some no longer feel that he represents the best interests of the party.
Video by Shrai Popat Additional
reporting by Sam Cabral
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Okay, Link didn’t post. Google the title and it most likely can be found?????
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Subject: I just signed this petition
No one should have to choose between risking their health at the polls or forfeiting their right to vote during this pandemic. Every voter who wants to cast a mail-in ballot in November should be able to.
I just signed a petition calling on the Senate to fund and protect the Postal Service, expand vote-by-mail options wherever possible, and invest necessary funds into our elections.
https://actionnetwork.org/petitions/sign-the-petition-those-who-want-to-vote-by-mail-must-be-able-to/?source=email&
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