Read the Washington Post’s article about the decline in SAT scores since 2005.
Scores on the SAT have sunk to the lowest level since the college admission test was overhauled in 2005, adding to worries about student performance in the nation’s high schools.
The average score for the Class of 2015 was 1490 out of a maximum 2400, the College Board reported Thursday. That was down 7 points from the previous class’s mark and was the lowest composite score of the past decade. There were declines of at least 2 points on all three sections of the test — critical reading, math and writing.
The steady decline in SAT scores and generally stagnant results from high schools on federal tests and other measures reflect a troubling shortcoming of education-reform efforts. The test results show that gains in reading and math in elementary grades haven’t led to broad improvement in high schools, experts say. That means several hundred thousand teenagers, especially those who grew up poor, are leaving school every year unready for college.
You will see lots of speculation, but what’s missing is a straightforward question about the value of NCLB and test-based accountability. Education doesn’t start in 9th grade.
Are you surprised? Since SAT test scores reflect the socio economic status of the students taking the exam, of course the scores would drop as the poverty level rises.
It’s important to understand the true meaning of any statistics, not try to rationalize the results to fit a preconceived notion.
This interpretation will be used to try to justify the CCSS and the assessments so that supposedly, children will finally be prepared for a career or college. Luckily, with the growing opt out movement, there are too many parents who refuse to buy in to the rhetoric of the rheformists.
Diane, this is an excellent chance to test your readers’ critical thinking skills once again. Review the reports and then determine for yourself why scores dropped. If you want to cheat, keep reading below.
– Group report for 2015
– Group report for 2014
And the takeaway:
1. White and asian students’ scores either stayed the same or increased from FY14 to FY15
2. Hispanic students’ scores dropped
3. The % of white students dropped while asians remained constant.
4. The % of hispanic students increased. Note that likely more poor hispanic studdents too the test (illegal immigrants) relative to the children of well-educated Hispanics thus causing the overall score drop here.
Basic critical thinking and math tell you this is a “mix” issue and not a “scoring” issue. It’s very revealing that our professional opt-out activists don’t have the skills to conduct this basic analysis.
Wait, what? Are you saying that test scores are tied to family socio-economic status? But I could have sworn you said just the other day that the SAT measures aptitude. Oh, I’m so confused!
Dienne, did you not understand my post? Let’s see if Diane let’s my post on her previous SAT score article through and it will explain.
Hint: income is correlated with aptitude. Income does NOT produce aptitude. Aptitude generates income. Questions?
Dienne: you are correct that confusion reigns supreme—
But only on RheeWorld, not on Planet Reality.
See him a 13th percentile of his hero, raise him to a 90th of hers.
😱
Rheeally! But even when it comes to heroes, especially those most Johnsonally endowed, verbal slight-of-hand doesn’t work when you move goal posts around in full view.
😎
The SAT is NOT an “aptitude” test.
Nor is an “achievement” test.
The SAT is – mostly – a test that measures family income.
Period.
Or, students on average are lazier or more distracted with entertainment. There might be some societal ebb and flow of the motivation to learn over the ages.
I agree that composition of the cohort group is an important part of interpreting standardized test scores, but we live in the era of “no excuses” where fluctuations of averages is restricted to comments on how this generation of students has gone wrong OR comments on how those teachers are getting more incompetent. Critical thinking is a slogan not a reality. Look at the commentary on a few percentage points in GOP presidential hopefuls one way or the other with huge margin of error.
Virginiasgp, This is the second time in a few days I’ve seen you slide “illegal immigrants” into a comment related to immigrants or ELLearners.
You mentioned proofreading a legal document–check that for unsubstantiated statements.
booklady, good advice. I mailed my appeal in earlier today but I did have to scale back some of the assertions based on exactly what the record could prove. But it’s interesting you say that. You see, my district was hiding their poor PISA results on a FOIA request for a week. However, the board had seen the brief in question and knew it was on video online. Within an hour of first cc’ing the board, the district “magically” found the brief. In court, I asserted that it was almost a certainty that the board had tipped off the district that they were about to be proven liars in court if they didn’t provide the brief. The judge scolded me for making such assertions. Within 10 days of the trial and subsequent to another FOIA request, I received this response from LCPS proving my “unsubstantiated assertion” was 100% correct.
Yes, there is a different between ELLs, legal immigrants and illegal immigrants. Care to bet $500 (always to charity of course) that the overwhelming majority of ELL students are either illegal immigrants themselves of the children of current illegal immigrants? Your call. Not their fault though. If you want to have open borders, there are at least 400M folks ready to come on down from China and India’s rural, impoverished towns. Shall we double our population by next year? Or do you just prefer that folks who break in line and squat get first dibs? Do you think your students who break in line do it “out of love” or because they simply are willing to take something they want from others?
Dude (virginiasgp), you are a real piece of work.
Democracy,
I gave Virginiasgp to you. I don’t have time to write again and again that children are not widgets and their education cannot be designed by an engineer. The children have a troublesome tendency to be individuals. Humans. Different.
An unsubstantiated claim from NOMAD?
What a surprise.
Better beam him back to outer space, Scotty. Pronto*! Self-destruction is imminent. VAMergize!
*added for any Spanish-speaking immigrants** enjoying the show.
**illegal, of course
Leaving aside the very real issue of the value and significance of the measures, there is big question: To what do we attribute the decline?
• Has the effectiveness of teaching declined over the period? What is the evidence? The decline itself is not evidence because that would assume a causal relationship in the absence of independent evidence.
• Have teaching methods changed over the same period and is there any correlation between these changes and shifts in scores?
• What other changes have taken place over the period that might be correlated with scores? (e.g, class size, per pupil spending, availability of instructional resources, emphasis on testing)
• To what extent is the decline correlated with increasing numbers/percentages of lower SES student taking the test?
• Since SAT/ACT scores are highly correlated with family income is there any relationship between inequality and the decline in test scores?
http://www.arthurcamins.com
It’s all a bunch of mental mathturbation* a sub-category of MMoOO** that aptly describes ALL the braying about any results of standardized testing. I’ve seen more intelligent thought go into making cowpies than into most discussions of said results.
*Thanks SDP
**MMoOO = Mental Masturbation or Obligatory Onanism
“troubling shortcoming of reform”, yes. Grave shortcoming of concentrated wealth, without a doubt.
“Severe poverty, affects brain size,researchers find”, JAMA Pediatrics, Drs. Barbara Wolfe and Seth Pollak. “…poverty, explains as much as 20% of the gap, in test scores.”
Gates opposes Thomas Piketty’s solution but, likes his own failed experiment, as do multinational corporations, Microsoft and Pearson.
Linda,
I’m concerned about the JAMA ‘research’ and your assumption that brain size has anything to do with intellegence. I haven’t read the JAMA report, and it could be carefully done, however MD’s aren’t really trained in either experimental design (was this a ‘double blind’ experiment that ruled out possible bias?) nor sophisticated statistical analysis. I went from degrees in astronomy and physics to work in a medical school biochemistry dept., and was instantly appalled at the ‘looseness’ in MD research. The biologists and chemists were pretty good (always room for improvement), but the MD’s? You see, it’s just not part of their training.
Whenever someone measures ‘brain size’, I think of the 19th century. If ‘brain size’ measured intelligence, then Neanderthals would rule the world (I guess). And, what, exactly, is ‘intelligence’? It appears to be an invention designed to show that certain people deserve to rule other people.
For more information, read the late S.J. Gould’s book, “The Mismeasurement of Man” Be sure to read to the end in order to connect the dots. It’s one of his greatest books, but not as ‘accessible’ as most, despite his attempt. Still, it’s worth the effort.
Going Godwin’s Law here, but the Nazis “proved” the “inferiority” of “lower races” by measuring head size, among other things.
The title of the article was cited to help readers find the research in the media. It does not provide a good representation of the study.
Excerpting from the study overview, “Children in poverty often receive less nurturing from parents, and live in environments characterized by increased stress from overcrowded housing, instability and poor nutrition, limited stimulation and more exposure to violence. ,,,poor performance stems from how their brains grow and work….slower development in two parts of the brain: the frontal lobe and the temporal lobe (as a result of those stressors)”.
Pollack is a professor of psychology and Director of the Child Emotion Lab. Wolfe is an economics professor. Both are at UW-Madison. For the summary I read, Joan Luby, a professor of child psychiatry and Director of the Early Emotional Development Program at Washington University School of Medicine reviewed the 6 year study.
We have all learned to be wary of ideology, masked as objective research. I am providing information, not endorsement.
Generalizations such as this do not help.
I’ve seen many kids living is poverty who are quite bright, often siblings of others who don’t do as well in school.
A helping hand and opportunities might be of more assistance (the opposite of testing). There also needs to be an attitude change – for all parties involved.
Flo56,
The plutocrats’ researchers, use ideologically-driven data about personal characteristics such as grit, to defend a biased view about academic underperformance, in poverty areas.
Research that isolates and confirms the effects of an environment of poverty, makes it harder for oligarchs to build and support a rationale
that avoids, giving a helping hand. Their ideology is that the rich are superior, not because of the advantages of their environment but, because of some internal fortitude, superior intellect, etc.
If the poor have researchers in their camp, making the case for a better environment, it helps both those who are “quite bright” to achieve more, it helps other children and their communities.
Americans have been robbed, by the 0.2%, over the past 4 decades of the nation’s history. The consequence is impoverished neighborhoods across the country, whose children suffer academically, as a result of plutocratic-imposed poverty.
For Silicon Valley and Wall Street to further impoverish them by plotting to make a profit on their schools is, proof of evil.
If, in fact,you believe the SAT measures anything than how well a student can do on an SAT. In fact, the ‘Scholastic Aptitude Test’. Perhaps, the result simply shows that the SAT is deteriorating (or becoming even more irrelevant).
As it turns out, over 50 years after I took the SAT, it is STILL no better at measuring college achievement than the twenty or so random high school teachers who gave that student grades, a simple, personal evaluation of the student’s work. If average high school teachers are just as good, who cares about the SAT (except as a marketing scheme)?
Disclaimer: I did very well on the SAT, and my GRE scores qualify me for Mensa. Yet, I think those tests are worthless. They DO Not measure anything external to the test, itself. But, it was furn to play the game (when you won a lot), just as it is fun to win a video game.
The SAT and related tests have become a big self- referential game. The test scores predict college success because the colleges admit those that have high test scores. Colleges then are run by those that succeed in college. Too much is made over a few hours of testing.
“Möbius Dick”
A Möbius loop
Is SAT
For Coleman troop
It’s “Look at me!”
“The Colemanbot”
Designed in a lab at MIT
The Colemanbot for SAT
Unequaled for the standard test
Can beat Commander Data’s best
“InSATiable”
InSATiable is what they are
For VAMming and for test
They dote upon the testing star
Ignoring all the rest
“Test to the Top (TTTT)”
(also known as “The Billionaire’s T Party”)
“The measure of success
Is score on standard test”
Said William Gates
Who did quite great
On SAT, no less
“The Bell Curve Boys”
The Bell Curve Boys
Just love the tests
Like favorite toys
They tout their bests:
“A perfect score on SAT
Is what I got in school, you see
And how successful I’ve turned out
The test tells all, there’s little doubt”
oops, forgot an important one
“Silly Attitude Test”
I know her 2.7 percent
We plan to tie the knot
Relationship is heaven sent
Her SAT is hot!
My daughter got “average” scores on the SAT (about 1000 – pre-essay era) graduated from UB ( in five years) with a BA in Management and now works for a bank earning more than I ever did as a teacher (with much higher scores and better grades in school). Even more to the point, her husband graduated from high school, never took an SAT or spent a day in college, but works in the computer industry (all self taught) and makes just as much as she does.
But that was during the days prior to the “career and college ready” philosophy.
Being a member of Mensa (and I know many geniuses) does not guarantee success in life. Actually, neither does graduating with a college degree – except for bragging rights. (Here’s mine – I graduated Magna Cum Laude (almost summa) plus I’m a member of Phi Beta Kappa. That and a couple of bucks might get me a cup of coffee.)
Oh, and I graduated with a double degree (160 credit hours) when I was 20 with my provisional teaching certification. I was constantly being asked for my pass when I subbed at the various local high schools. Yep, I earned a whole $25 a day and took graduate courses in the late afternoon/evening. Finished up when I was 21, got married, and found a job for a whopping $8500 a year plus benefits. I qualified for free lunch. Babysat in the evenings for gas money.
And that’s with a Masters Degree.
My smarts didn’t translate into $$$$$ did it?
“A kappa coffee to go, please”
A kappa coffee at Starbucks
Will cost you arms and legs
Cuz laureates got the big bucks
And they don’t need the breaks
Thanks my dear poet – but I prefer my coffee from Tim Horton’s.
Am I correct to assume Tim doesn’t take arms and legs (or your first born) for a kappa coffee?
You got me on that one.
SDP & flos56,
I know Starbucks has folks w master’s degrees working at NJ site. Does Tim H have overqualified staff too?
Sad commentary on our times.
John,
Where do you find information on GRE scores? I’ve looked and have not been able to find any-the ETS site doesn’t help with my older (1999-2000) score. Any help will be appreciated. TIA!
Duane, here you go. You probably took the logic section of the GRE (total of 2400 overall). That was deemed “discriminatory” because some groups didn’t score well (nothing related to validity just folks didn’t like the implications) and has since been abandoned.
Thanks!! Will check it out.
Duane,
If you haven’t seen the article at Truthout, by a Swedish writer, she cites and praises your comments that appeared in response to a referenced paper. The article title, “Private Global Interest Organization Performs Corporate Takeover of our Education Systems”.
The culprits identified, OECD and PISA.,
Thanks, Linda, I’ll check it out!
Arthur makes some very good points but I’d like to add one more. What are the raw numbers taking the exam each year since 2005? Are more students taking the exam? As we push more students towards college, is it possible that the average test scores are declining not because students are doing worse but because a wider range or perhaps larger group of students are taking the test causing a lower average score? Are there more lower scoring students taking the test who in past years wouldn’t have taken it? In any statistical comparison, you have to make sure that you’re comparing essentially the same population.
One thing is clear from this data. Billionaire and politician led education reform has not improved testing results. Since that is the metric they foisted on schools, it’s only seems reasonable to conclude that their reforms are a dismal failure and even destructive. It is time to ask professional educators to once again take the lead and put the public education system back onto the success path it was on before 1983’s infamous “Nation at Risk” politicized education policy and started the withering attack of public schools and professional educators.
I agree with your conclusions completely.
We’ve got to start pointing out that the status quo represents the last 15 years of education policy. Defenders of the status quo are those that push for the testing, the national standards, the privatization of our public schools.
Those who advocate for these failed policies should be framed as defenders of fifteen years of poor results, We should characterize ourselves as the reformers, and take back that mantle.
Rockhound, you are exactly right.
The status quo is high-stakes testing, privatization, attacks on teachers.
It is supported by the U.S. Department of Education and the biggest foundations.
I abhor the status quo.
Come on Diane, how can you abhor THE Status Quo???
“The SATus Quo”
The SATus Quo
From fifteen years ago
Is still the rage
On Rhee-form page
And change is Rheelly slow
What are your thoughts about the new “Learning Policy Institute”?
SAT scores are on the decline. Find the nearest scape goats (Rheephormers, billionaires, etc) and assess the blame on them. Add to the list, the 9.5% percent private school students and about 5% charter school students. They must be the reason for the fall in SAT scores. It is so simple and straight forward. If all of this fails blame the high stakes testing itself.
But a majority of the school funding is spent on teachers, administrators and infra structure and none of of those have any blame to share. It is common sense to think that may be all of the above have some part in the decline in the test outcome, but teachers are above it all.
Just keep saying it over and over again, the ignorant followers (masses) will start believing it and rise in opposition to everything without understanding any of the causes.
How long have you been alive and in this country, Raj? For the past two or three decades rephormers have been coming in telling us how miserably our students are failing and how it’s all the fault of those lazy, union teachers who can’t be fired. So they’ve come in with guns blazing, putting in mandate after mandate after mandate (all unfunded, of course) insisting that everyone do everything their way, They’ve gotten their way for at least 15 years now and this is what they have to show for it – failure by their own metrics. It’s time to stop looking around for scapegoats. There are two culprits here – 1) poverty (and the way we treat poor people, especially poor minorities) and 2) the rephormsters who have preferred to blame teachers while doing nothing about poverty. They made their beds, they (and you) can go lie in them.
Yes, in many schools “reform” has meant taking decision-making away from teachers and imposing pedagogy from above. At best, SAT scores are stagnant –who should “own” this? The teachers?
I stand corrected. It is the Rheephormsters that are responsible for the decline in the SAT scores. Fire them all!!!
Raj, I notice that you often disappear after you bring your argument to its ad absurdum conclusion. I bet you get a lot of self-satisfaction from your perceived brilliance. You really are the epitome of an internet troll. You have made it abundantly clear what you are against, but I am wondering what education policies you favor.
Dear Raj,
I’m sorry Dianne had to respond to you.
The SAT is the Scholastic APTITUDE Test. Yep, its name indicates that it claims to measure the ability to learn, an innate ability similar to IQ. In fact, that was it’s intention at the inception, to pick out ‘the best’ and, particularly, the “brightest”‘, thus, giving a national measurement (sound familiar?) to allow colleges to select the most ‘able’ students. Teachers can’t influence what the test purports to measure, and the numbers (assuming they are valid) only indicate that teachers are faced with students ever less capable of learning. Yet, you blame teachers?
As you should know, grade point averages (GPA’s) from average high school teachers are at least as good a predictor of further scholastic success, even after decades of SAT ‘refinement’. (I took the test in the late 1950’s)
The SAT doesn’t measure anything of value, neither innate ability nor ‘college readiness’, better than the recorded assessment of their teachers. If SAT scores drop, who cares? Well, ETS, of course, which institution scrambled to ‘recenter’ in the past. I could, of course, conclude that my exemplary score (before ‘re-centering’) indicated that I was so much ‘smarter’ than kids, today (What’s The Matter With-em’). However, as I said, I think the ‘re-centering’ and the current drop say more about the test than they do about the students.
It takes hundreds of generations to change a population’s ‘innate ability’ for any task (even ‘scholastic’). The folks at ETS realized this, and knew that, eventually, someone would point out the ‘mismatch’. And, so, they ‘re-centered’. Same, today. Except that the declining number can now be used as ‘evidence’ to destroy our ever so demonstrably successful public school system in order to turn a profit for the already wealthy, and move us back to a reflection of the European Middle Ages.
Sorry, John. But the SAT is NOT the scholastic “aptitude” test.
The term SAT stands for absolutely nothing. It’s not an “aptitude test nor is an “achievement” test.
Look it up.
democracy
College Board used o call it that but they dropped the name to avoid having to justify it.
As the College Board itself has said, SAT now stands for nothing.
People should really take the experts at their word.
@Poet
that was my point….the SAT is NOT an “aptitude test.”
the acronym SAT stands for nothing….sort of like the test itself.
Democracy,
I wasn’t disagreeing with your main point.
Unfortunately, the original name has actually stuck and lots of people (particularly those who took it long ago) still call it that.
I call it the “Silly Attitude Test” because that indicates perfectly the mentality of many of the folks who did well on it — bragging about their score in high school and still bragging about it half a century later in some cases.
Believe it or not, Bill Gates SAT score is actually quoted on his Wikipedia site. Given Bill Gates’ personality, I bet he pays pretty close attention to (and is quite proud of) everything on that site
Dienne & ponderosa: word salad and cognitive dissonance do not a filling food-for-thought meal make.
To be honest, I don’t mind zingers coming my (or if you pardon the presumption, our) way. But when the zingers don’t have stingers, and miss the point of what’s under discussion—
It reminds me of the recent loss of Oliver Sacks. Under different circumstances and addressing different topics, he might have penned a book entitled THE RHEEPHORMSTER THAT MISTOOK HIS BEHIND FOR HIS MIND. To riff off a bit of the Amazon description of the actual book Sacks wrote [and with all apologies to a fine writer and human being]:
“Oliver Sacks’s THE RHEEPHORMSTER THAT MISTOOK HIS BEHIND FOR HIS MIND tells the stories of individuals afflicted with fantastic perceptual and intellectual aberrations: rheephormistas who have deliberately misplaced their memories and with them the greater part of their and our pasts; who are no longer able to recognize real people and real objects; who are stricken with fierce desires to sneer, jeer and smear; whose ability to debate actual topics under actual discussion has severely atrophied; who consider themselves geniuses yet are bereft of even an iota of critical thinking skills and the ability to ethically and logically analyze data.”
Unfortunately, the new version of his book would not be filled with uplifting tales of the power of healing but rather the joy of stealing and counting up $tudent $ucce$$, because when you’re “in it to win it” then “the bottom line isn’t everything, it’s the only thing.”
Thank you for your comments.
😎
Raj – Are you saying that the teachers working today are not as good as the teachers who taught ten years ago (even if they are the same teachers)? Or is the current crop of educators graduating (with mountains of debt) subpar?
Please clarify?
flos56,
All I am trying to say that every one involved in education, teachers reformers, administrators and all those who benefit from the education field and have some say in the performance of our children as measured by SAT, ACT, PSAT, GPA or some other means.
I am sick and tired of people in these blogs that always blame reformers (see correct spelling), billionaires, hedge fund managers, governors, politicians, secretary of education, our president for what they perceive are the ills of the system of education. Meanwhile a vast majority of teachers are not saying anything. They are silent and doing their job as best as they can.
I believe that every one has some contribution positive or negative to our educational system.
Standing on a soap box and saying that they are better than every one else is wrong.
I have no idea if teachers today are any better or any worse than before. I also do not know if students today are better or worse than before. I cannot assume that teachers are blameless. My belief is that every one has the ability to improve.
Raj I might agree with you if I hadn’t lived it for so many years.
I’ve worked with some superb teachers and I must admit, some who should find another field (which they often do). I’ve seen changes in curriculum and teaching techniques (which were guaranteed to work, but which unfortunately failed), too many administrators who took excellent faculties and decimated them, and one superintendent whose I’ll advised policies led to a district wide school climate which resulted in poor teacher morale, lower attendance rates for both students and faculty, an increase in school violence, and, at times, a zoo like atmosphere (with animal noises to match) which kept teachers from doing their best work.
And I haven’t even touched on the issues of poverty, minority populations, immigrants and refugees, and children with special needs.
IF the quality of work has declined, there is a direct causal relationship. Teachers can only do so much with the situations they are dealt and they are often caught in the middle. If they are to be blamed, it is only because they have been micromanaged to the point where they have lost their autonomy. (And “rebellion” or “common sense” can lead to dismissal, as witnessed by the experiences which many of the bloggers here have valiantly shared).
It is easy to express commentary from the outside looking in, but I believe in the saying “Don’t judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes”.
There’s a reason so many of us agree on so many points – and that’s just on this blog. You should see my Facebook page – it’s literally blowing up.
I know what I’ve said won’t change your opinion, but I hope you recognize that there is a movement afoot which is on the verge of opening this issue wide open.
And I can’t wait.
Raj, if you want any progress, let teachers teach. Teachers have had little control over their classrooms for the past several decades. If you were teaching or more informed about the situations in actual classrooms, you would know teachers are not silent. Just no one is listening.
“It is common sense to think . . . ”
. . . that the SAT is fundamentally COMPLETELY INVALID due to the inherent epistemological and ontological errors and falsehoods in its conception, execution, supposed determinations and repercussions. It is up to/incumbent on the reformers (is that a good enough spelling for you Raj?) and their ilk to refute and/or rebut Wilson’s damning exposé of the educational malpractices that are educational standards and standardized testing (which form the fundamental bases of all the current ‘reforms’).
Please point me to such refutations and then we can start to have a “common sense” discussion of those malpractices. Until then, well it’s all a bunch of braying and MMoOO*ing at the full moon on a partly cloudy night.
I await your rebuttal/refutation, Raj, in this matter.
*MMoOO = Mental Masturbation or Obligatory Onanism
‘Mix’ issues occur all of the time, in enrollments and classes, sometimes along with overcrowding. It has been the cause of closure of many schools. The general official response has been to not acknowledge it, as it has been used strategically.
Great point. “Mix” doesn’t matter with VAM. With SAT, suddenly “mix” matters. Let us use SAT as the VAM for the reformers, OK? Reformers: you’re fired!
ponderosa, “mix” definitely matters. If you told me that a school went from 90% passing to 65% passing and asked me what caused that, I would ask for more information. Maybe there was a boundary change. I will never make assumptions on just achievement scores alone. But you still don’t seem to understand that VAM compares growth among similar kids so the “mix” is already accounted for. I really think you folks have no clue what VAMs actually are, do you?
And as for “teachers owning SAT scores”, I don’t think teachers are responsible at all for SAT scores, at least the ones I recall. SAT is a test of the students’ aptitude. A teacher could teach all day and not really raise a student’s score. A kid could get a 680+ on the math section in the 7th grade before “being exposed” to the math they supposedly need. Mixing SAT with PARCC/SBAC/SOL data has historically been done by either fools or partisans looking to deceive.
Barry Wilson, mix matters. VAMs remove the “mix” bias. That’s why you will never see me make conclusions on achievement scores but only on VAMs/SGPs. In fact, I used SGP data to show that the unusually disadvantaged school in my district (75% FRL when normally it’s 10% or less in other schools) had among the best results in SGPs even though they had low SOLs. Those teachers were miracle workers not scapegoated by me.
TC, I would disagree with that. SATs generally measure aptitude so this is truly a mix issue when whites/asians are constant/improving. As Diane points out, NAEP scores are still trending up. Those scores are aligned so higher scores really do mean improvements.
John Wund, you are wrong yet again. SATs are very effective at predicting not only college performance but later success in life. Shall we bow down to you now that we know you are in Mensa?
And ‘mix’ in schools and classes is not like ‘mix’ in one-time exam administrations. In schools and classes, especially when compounded by overcrowding and oversize classes, affects school culture and class attitudes, to put it rather mildly. It can sap resources and precipitate crises of all kinds. It is a humongous factor that goes well beyond student-to-student comparisons.
virginiasgp has it entirely wwrong.
The SAT is NOT an “aptitude” test. Nor does it predict well either success in college or success in life.
The head of a college enrollment consulting company said this about the SAT’s ability to “predict” success in college: “I might as well measure shoe size.”
The SAT “predicts” – or explains – from 3 to 14 percent of the variance in freshman-year college grades. After that, nothing.
It is mostly bogus. Sort of like virginisgp’s arguments.
Ok, democracy, I’m in awe of your research capabilities given you found the head of a test prep consulting firm to give us definitive advice. That has to be true because he has so much incentive to not destroy his prep business.
But for those who believe academic research is a little more trustworthy, here are a few sources you may want to check out:
1. Study shows pre-recentered SAT (pre-1993) has a 0.86 correlation (R^2 = .75%) and recentered SAT has a 0.72 correlation (R^2 = 52%) with IQ.
2. Professors of pshychology who research aptitude just might be a tad more reliable than a test prep propagandist.
3. There are some caveats to all of this but not the ones you are thinking of. Thus, your individual score might be off but not the aggregate scores.
4. I thought I would include a retort from a test prep marketer but mine got a perfect 1600 so I think he’s a little more credible.
Don’t pay any attention to the propaganda coming from Virginia’s educational department about how they are so great and responsible for Virginia’s SAT scores. Nothing could be further from the truth. However, I have documents showing the state superintendent gave specific assurances that SGP scores were provided to every single teacher of math/reading in grades 4-8 prior to Virginia receiving $40M/yr in federal funds. They knew that was not happening because they told the districts they didn’t have to use the SGP data. Folks, that is called fraud and when I get time to speak to a US attorney, there may be serious ramifications for knowingly defrauding the federal gov’t.
Perhaps SAT stands for Stupid Ass Test
I do not believe the effects of ‘mix’ are accounted for with remote accuracy in any VAM models. It has to do with school culture tipping points, resource crisis tipping points, class size and total make-up tipping points and what’s happening in the neighborhoods these kids are coming from.
I repeat:
And ‘mix’ in schools and classes is not like ‘mix’ in one-time exam administrations. In schools and classes, especially when compounded by overcrowding and oversize classes, it affects school culture and class attitudes, to put it rather mildly. It can sap resources and precipitate crises of all kinds. It is a humongous factor that goes well beyond student-to-student comparisons.
And I truly, honestly do not believe in the accuracy of the models to get at proper class-to-class or school-to-school comparisons regarding this, when this becomes a real issue, as it often does.
SAT scores measure nothing other that how students did on an SAT test.
And SAT scores don’t even “measure” that. They “measure” nothing! They may assess something (and we don’t know what that something actually is) and poorly at that, but it’s a total waste of time, energy and money.
Akademos & ponderosa & John Wund:
what y’all said.
😎
It’s a bell curve. Each year, a different group of kids take it.
Why, exactly, are scores supposed to continually “rise”?
David Muir reported this statistic tonight in one sentence, with no explanation whatsoever.
I also recently heard a local news anchor state, “… And STEM is where we’re really falling behind,” at the end of her broadcast.
I believe these incomplete and uninformed snippets go a long way toward shaping public opinion and extensively damage public education.
Go to: PBS.org and view the series WHY POVERTY? It’s sobering.
I agree with John. The SAT measures only what is on the SAT. Nothing else. It correlates to income because kids in families with higher incomes are better able to answer the questions intended for kids in families with higher incomes. And the SAT is designed by people who have succeeded on the SAT. Read the results, then shelve it. The Reformers can go off and carry on about aptitude, intelligence, VAM, and who is to blame. Stop using test scorers to raise test scores. For once, just stay out of the way of educators and let teachers teach.
Dr Ravitch and readers,
A few random thoughts:
1. Between 2006 and 2015, the US experienced severe economic dislocation. College Board report doesn’t show whether students worked part-time. I visited a regional high school in Sussex County, NJ (poverty rate only ~5%) and learned from a teacher that a number of students had taken jobs because a parent had lost job when unemployment was high (still is) in NJ.
Working HS students may have less time for online SAT Word of the Day, etc.
College Bd also doesn’t report whether students are responsible for tending siblings.
Both work/babysitting could tell us more than CB reports of how many art/music courses students took.
2. We don’t know if high schools continued to offer SAT prep classes during the time span.
3. Virginia’s scores seem to be OK according to WaPo article. They kept their SOL, didn’t have CCSS distraction.
4. Students who’d taken Latin had highest Critical Reading scores; those who’d taken Chinese had highest math in the 2014, 15 group reports that Virginiasgp linked. (I remember 1960s guidance counselors steering the super bright kids to Russian; bright to French; others to Spanish.) How many inner city high schools offer Chinese?
Actually, The Buffalo Public Schools have several schools which teach Mandarin. They’ve even gotten grants so some students can visit China. Of course, these schools are the ones with a larger white population who are not on the receivership list.
Virginia is one of the 10 most affluent states in the country. That explains the SAT scores there.
Are more students from lower-socioeconomic backgrounds taking SAT tests? If so, that is a positive in a way, yes?
JPent, more students from poor families have been taking the SAT for years. When the SAT scores were analyzed in 1975, after a long decline, the main reason given was the increase in SES diversity.
All Sophmores take the PSAT (in my area) during school hours. In Buffalo, those with free lunch also get a “free” SAT. I assume we, the taxpayer, foot the bill.
Either way, The College Board is racking in the bucks.
Would you like a PSAT with that burger?
“It’s the Law”
There’s no free lunch
Or SAT
A growing bunch
Of entropy
Here’s the good thing: The Post reporter, Nick Anderson, did a decent enough job explaining the SAT’s connection to family income. But that’s primarily what the SAT measures. Nothing more. Anderson hasn’t done so well with that in the past. And even in this article, Anderson fuels the nonsense about the SAT.
But here’s the downside: People still take the SAT seriously. Seriously, they do. Look at Anderson’s lead sentence: “Scores on the SAT have sunk to the lowest level since the college admission test was overhauled in 2005…” To which anyone with any sensible understanding the SAT would day, “So what?”. And therein lies the rub; people still think the SAT predicts college success because it’s a “college admission test.” The problem is that the test does a VERY poor job of predicting success in college. College enrollment companies do research on the SAT, and they find it predicts between 3 and 14 percent of the variance in freshman-year college grades, and after that nothing (the College Board, by the way, says the SAT is better than sliced pepperoni). As one enrollment company exec remarked about the SAT’s ‘predictive’ power, “I might as well measure shoe size.”
And yet, in Virginia, the president of the State Board of Education –– the freakin’ state board of education –– said this about the SAT scores just released in the Commonwealth:“ These latest SAT results provide further confirmation that the higher expectations for learning and achievement adopted by the Board of Education are resulting in better-prepared graduates.” In other words, the Board took credit. Unmentioned was the fact that Virginia is one of the top 10 (# 7 or #8 according to most sources) most affluent states in the country. The states’s superintendent of public instruction,who was previously the head of the state superintendents association,said the SAT scores were the result of “Virginia’s high expectations” that “are producing real gains in learning and achievement.”
But it goes way beyond Virginia. Some states now”incorporate the use of SATs and ACTs as a statewide achievement test for high-schoolers.” According The Christian Science Monitor, “by next year the number is expected to top 22. Another handful of states either pay for or require students to take one of the two tests.”
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Education/2015/0903/As-states-change-use-of-SAT-and-ACT-disadvantaged-students-get-boost
Cyndie Schmeiser at the College Board is not alone in claiming that “Expanding access” to the SAT is “the first step toward expanding opportunity.” This is the college and workforce “readiness” stuff reworded. It’s the notion that public schools and teachers and testing fix poverty and stupid economic policy decisions. And it’s just a load of crapola.
There are those applauding the fact the Common Core tests are being shelved in some places. New Hampshire and Connecticut are two such places, But The Monitor notes that “announced this summer that they’ll be switching to the SAT and away from a test aligned to Common Core standards for 11th-graders.” In the VERY next sentence The Monitor reporter writes this: “The move is partly driven by the growing anxiety about overtesting.”
Say what? It bears repeating that the College Board and ACT, Inc. were two KEY players in developing the Common Core and both tout the fact that they “aligned” all of their products with it. And then, of course, there’s the Advanced Placement craziness and the upper-elementary and middle school college “readiness” tests.
Sheesh. Public education needs some protection from those who claim to “lead” it.
“Coronyism”
The ethically challenged go to work
At College Board, a circle jerk
The Coleman Core bred SAT
Coronyism is all we see
I think this is worth my re-repeating:
I do not believe the effects of ‘mix’ are accounted for with remote accuracy in any VAM models. It has to do with school culture tipping points, resource crisis tipping points, class size and total make-up tipping points and what’s happening in the neighborhoods these kids are coming from.
I repeat:
And ‘mix’ in schools and classes is not like ‘mix’ in one-time exam administrations. In schools and classes, especially when compounded by overcrowding and oversize classes, it affects school culture and class attitudes, to put it rather mildly. It can sap resources and precipitate crises of all kinds. It is a humongous factor that goes well beyond student-to-student comparisons.
And I truly, honestly do not believe in the accuracy of the models to get at proper class-to-class or school-to-school comparisons regarding this, when this becomes a real issue, as it often does.
what – exactly – does your comment have to do with with the SAT?
Just that an analysis of what happened on the SAT exposes one of the many major flaws in VAM models. And I think that’s important to note, to say the least.
This post makes me very sad. The suggestion that a decline in SAT test scores gives us any meaningful information about whether some reform works makes no sense. I am certain that Diane knows better, but we’ve become so habituated to using test scores as evidence for everything educational that it’s hard to break the habit. Small changes in the latest test are analyzed and touted as proof of this or that success or failure. We jump from one test-score-crisis to another.
The fact that this has happened for a drop in SAT scores is especially ironic (and disturbing) because another SAT-crisis gave birth to our current mania. Diane herself has told this story repeatedly. SAT scores fell in the late 60s and 70s, and the politicians used it to whip the public into a frenzy. This produced the famous A Nation at Risk report, which promoted the next thirty years of crisis-mongering. A simple analysis showed, however, that the fall in scores was largely “compositional” — that is, caused by the changing composition of the students who took the exam — and in any case scores were already on the rise by the time the report appeared. (In addition, while the overall average had gone down, averages for various individual groups had actually gone up … a well-known statistical phenomenon called Simpson’s Paradox.)
The current fall, which is relatively small by the way, is surely largely compositional as well. We seem to forget history all too easily when it comes to education.
Thanks, John. I well remember the handwringing that followed the big SAT score decline story in the New York Times in 1975. I recall the findings of the Wirtz Commission that most of the “decline” could be accounted for by the composition of the test-taking pool. My point is that an unrelenting focus on test scores for the past dozen years plus has not produced the predicted results. We were told that if everyone took standardized tests in grades 3-8, “no child” would be “left behind.” It wasn’t true. Then we were told that if everyone did what Arne Duncan commanded, we would “race to the top.” That hasn’t happened. Now we are told that the Common Core and the Common Core tests will close the achievement gaps. That won’t happen.
It is time to have a fresh vision. The one we are working with now is old and tired and unpromising. The status quo is stale.
Right. These SAT results are a minute part of the story in which almost everything under the sun points to the failure of the deforms.
Sorry to harp on VAM, but that thing is a real explosive cap on a massive mess.
So I’m, watching the CBS evening news last night, old fogey that I am. And, in between commercials for products aimed at the AARP-eligible set (what the hell, four hours!?) the somber talking head anchor reported that (cue ominous music) SAT scores had dropped. And, worst off…..”only 42% of the students are college ready”.
It’s as if David Coleman was under the anchor desk working the anchor guy like a puppet.
C’mon. Is it any wonder that scores on a test of reading and math printed on good old fashioned paper are dropping? What planet are these news people living on? Paper is going the way of the TV antenna up in my attic. And, it’s not just “those kids”…… it’s the entire CULTURE. I’m trying to remember the last time I went to some sort of teacher “inservice day” or opening of school kick off where a video of some sort wasn’t shown. Who doesn’t love YouTube?
We now have an entire generation of our children that has grown up completely immersed in super fast, interactive 21st century technology complete with eye popping, high def graphics. Then ask them to take essentially the same sort of SAT exam I suffered through back in the 1970s?
“. . . but what’s missing is a straightforward question about the value of NCLB and test-based accountability.”
What’s missing is the the straightforward realization that educational standards and standardized testing are educational malpractices that are COMPLETELY INVALID and to use the results of said malpractices for anything is COMPLETELY INVALID and INSANE. So much wasting of time, energy and resources for EXACTLY ZERO VALID INFORMATION. AY AY AY AY AY!
To understand all the errors, falsehoods, and psychometric fudges involved in the making, giving and disseminating the results of those two educational malpractices read and comprehend Noel Wilson’s never refuted nor rebutted treatise “Educational Standards and the Problem of Error” found at: http://epaa.asu.edu/ojs/article/view/577/700
Brief outline of Wilson’s “Educational Standards and the Problem of Error” and some comments of mine.
1. A description of a quality can only be partially quantified. Quantity is almost always a very small aspect of quality. It is illogical to judge/assess a whole category only by a part of the whole. The assessment is, by definition, lacking in the sense that “assessments are always of multidimensional qualities. To quantify them as unidimensional quantities (numbers or grades) is to perpetuate a fundamental logical error” (per Wilson). The teaching and learning process falls in the logical realm of aesthetics/qualities of human interactions. In attempting to quantify educational standards and standardized testing the descriptive information about said interactions is inadequate, insufficient and inferior to the point of invalidity and unacceptability.
2. A major epistemological mistake is that we attach, with great importance, the “score” of the student, not only onto the student but also, by extension, the teacher, school and district. Any description of a testing event is only a description of an interaction, that of the student and the testing device at a given time and place. The only correct logical thing that we can attempt to do is to describe that interaction (how accurately or not is a whole other story). That description cannot, by logical thought, be “assigned/attached” to the student as it cannot be a description of the student but the interaction. And this error is probably one of the most egregious “errors” that occur with standardized testing (and even the “grading” of students by a teacher).
3. Wilson identifies four “frames of reference” each with distinct assumptions (epistemological basis) about the assessment process from which the “assessor” views the interactions of the teaching and learning process: the Judge (think college professor who “knows” the students capabilities and grades them accordingly), the General Frame-think standardized testing that claims to have a “scientific” basis, the Specific Frame-think of learning by objective like computer based learning, getting a correct answer before moving on to the next screen, and the Responsive Frame-think of an apprenticeship in a trade or a medical residency program where the learner interacts with the “teacher” with constant feedback. Each category has its own sources of error and more error in the process is caused when the assessor confuses and conflates the categories.
4. Wilson elucidates the notion of “error”: “Error is predicated on a notion of perfection; to allocate error is to imply what is without error; to know error it is necessary to determine what is true. And what is true is determined by what we define as true, theoretically by the assumptions of our epistemology, practically by the events and non-events, the discourses and silences, the world of surfaces and their interactions and interpretations; in short, the practices that permeate the field. . . Error is the uncertainty dimension of the statement; error is the band within which chaos reigns, in which anything can happen. Error comprises all of those eventful circumstances which make the assessment statement less than perfectly precise, the measure less than perfectly accurate, the rank order less than perfectly stable, the standard and its measurement less than absolute, and the communication of its truth less than impeccable.”
In other words all the logical errors involved in the process render any conclusions invalid.
5. The test makers/psychometricians, through all sorts of mathematical machinations attempt to “prove” that these tests (based on standards) are valid-errorless or supposedly at least with minimal error [they aren’t]. Wilson turns the concept of validity on its head and focuses on just how invalid the machinations and the test and results are. He is an advocate for the test taker not the test maker. In doing so he identifies thirteen sources of “error”, any one of which renders the test making/giving/disseminating of results invalid. And a basic logical premise is that once something is shown to be invalid it is just that, invalid, and no amount of “fudging” by the psychometricians/test makers can alleviate that invalidity.
6. Having shown the invalidity, and therefore the unreliability, of the whole process Wilson concludes, rightly so, that any result/information gleaned from the process is “vain and illusory”. In other words start with an invalidity, end with an invalidity (except by sheer chance every once in a while, like a blind and anosmic squirrel who finds the occasional acorn, a result may be “true”) or to put in more mundane terms crap in-crap out.
7. And so what does this all mean? I’ll let Wilson have the second to last word: “So what does a test measure in our world? It measures what the person with the power to pay for the test says it measures. And the person who sets the test will name the test what the person who pays for the test wants the test to be named.”
In other words it attempts to measure “’something’ and we can specify some of the ‘errors’ in that ‘something’ but still don’t know [precisely] what the ‘something’ is.” The whole process harms many students as the social rewards for some are not available to others who “don’t make the grade (sic)” Should American public education have the function of sorting and separating students so that some may receive greater benefits than others, especially considering that the sorting and separating devices, educational standards and standardized testing, are so flawed not only in concept but in execution?
My answer is NO!!!!!
One final note with Wilson channeling Foucault and his concept of subjectivization:
“So the mark [grade/test score] becomes part of the story about yourself and with sufficient repetitions becomes true: true because those who know, those in authority, say it is true; true because the society in which you live legitimates this authority; true because your cultural habitus makes it difficult for you to perceive, conceive and integrate those aspects of your experience that contradict the story; true because in acting out your story, which now includes the mark and its meaning, the social truth that created it is confirmed; true because if your mark is high you are consistently rewarded, so that your voice becomes a voice of authority in the power-knowledge discourses that reproduce the structure that helped to produce you; true because if your mark is low your voice becomes muted and confirms your lower position in the social hierarchy; true finally because that success or failure confirms that mark that implicitly predicted the now self-evident consequences. And so the circle is complete.”
In other words students “internalize” what those “marks” (grades/test scores) mean, and since the vast majority of the students have not developed the mental skills to counteract what the “authorities” say, they accept as “natural and normal” that “story/description” of them. Although paradoxical in a sense, the “I’m an “A” student” is almost as harmful as “I’m an ‘F’ student” in hindering students becoming independent, critical and free thinkers. And having independent, critical and free thinkers is a threat to the current socio-economic structure of society.
What the SAT measures is the amount of tutoring the student received to prepare for the test, Obviously, income and the ability to hire tutors or take SAT preparation courses go hand-in-hand. For example, many upper-middle-class Long Island families spend in the vicinity of $200-300 “a week” in either SAT or ACT test prep. Yes, I admit it, I am the beneficiary of this largess. I have been a SAT/ACT tutor for over 30 years. Another important point is the fact that students who are voracious readers and come into the test with strong vocabularies tend to do better on the verbal part. Obviously, this lack of vocabulary development and knowledge unfortunately are being aggravated by the Common Core. One does not gain real knowledge and real reading skills when one is only expected to read an excerpt from a piece of literature because of a test prep curriculum. Give me a student that reads Austin, Twain, Hawthorne and Shakespeare and I can almost predict a verbal SAT score either near or within the 700 range.
On the other hand, what can you expect of a child who comes from a family in which there is no access to the type of literature I just mentioned. What can you expect from a working class or poor family who cannot buy an experienced tutor for $300 a week. What do you expect from a child whose poverty prevented them from even experiencing a museum and who never traveled beyond boundaries of their ghettoized world. What do you expect from a child whose chief concern is their next meal or how to get a warm coat to survive the winter. What do you expect of a child who lives in vermin infested apartment building and has to attempt to study surrounded by the distractions of life on the edge of survival. Those who have created this situation blame us teachers and the poor themselves for these supposed score when the real culprit is reflected in their bathroom mirrors every morning.
Agreed.
And the mere fact that a person can boost their score significantly through vocab memorization, test-taking strategies and the like (and in a rather short time period) is all the proof one needs that it is not an innate “aptitude” test.
The people who make the claim that it is are just clueless.
Just reading more fiction for fun outside of school will increase the results on tests and even that misleading IQ
Click to access Cunningham-What%20Reading%20Does%20for%20the%20Mind.pdf
But what happens during the first five years of life to children who grow up in homes that do not have any reading material around and those children never see their parents/guardians reading anything?
Liberal,
Would you expect the lack of vocabulary development and knowledge to also show up in the NAEP exams? I would expect the effect to be more pronounced in the NAEP exams as there are, as far as I know at least, no one who tutors students to take the NAEP exams.
On Thursday we learned that there has been a dramatic decline in SAT scores since 2005.
Today, on Friday, 9-4-15, we learn that childhood poverty has increased dramatically since 2006 and the global financial meltdown that cost 9-million Americans their jobs. In fact, most of the jobs that replaced the lost ones—caused by the greed on Wall Street and from U.S. banks—paid much less forcing famlies who were middle class into poverty. Millions of middle class Americans who lost jobs also lost their homes, were evicted by the banks that caused them to loser their jobs, and those victims had to move to areas where poverty dominates because rent and property values are lower in those areas where no one wants to live if they have the money to live elsewhere.
Is there a connection?
Of course but there are also two explanations.
The oligarchs and their paid RheeFormers who profit from corporate school reform will blame the public schools, public teachers and teachers’ unions for both the decline in SAT scores and the increase in childhood poverty. Their solution: more TFA, more vouchers, more corporate Charters, no teachers’ unions, no due process rights for public school teachers, no more public schools.
The other answer is that poverty is linked to the decline in test scores and teachers and public schools had nothing to do with what happened.
But poverty doesn’t offer profits to the oligarchs and their puppets so it still has to be the public teachers who get blamed. Blaming teachers is good because it leads to increased corporate profits and increased wealth for the top 1%.
Whether or not the SAT or ACT have any value, and whether or not scores are going up or down or are flat, the current solutions being proposed to the real or imagined crisis are all zombie ideas: Prescriptions for improvement that should be dead, but keep being resurrected. We do need to address a real crisis. Race and class explain most of the variation in the quality of education available to children and the outcomes. The life chances of students from poor and working families are dramatically constrained. Voting patterns in the US suggest that far too many citizens have not learned to separate values, beliefs and evidence. These are real crisis– if we value equity and democracy. They won’t be solved by more consequential testing, charter schools, vouchers, or merit pay for teachers. These solutions reproduce rather than solve our real crises.
There are solutions, but the decision makers do not want to use them.
http://www.arthurcamins.com
Once again, TAGO, Duane, for your Wilson rant (to be repeated early & often, because there are always newbies (as well as the usual trolls) who needan education/or be reminded. In terms of “college readiness,” people need to recognize that numerous colleges (& good) have dropped the ACT & the SAT as an entrance requirement and, as referenced in Duane’s comments, there is good reason for that–they mean/stand for NOTHING!!! (As I type this, I am visualizing the great Gorey cartoon–the one with the huge, stone NOTHING having the caption, “Is Nothing sacred?”) Although that may be the opinion of the College Board (well that is, of course, THEIR income…which leads me into my last comment, esp. addressed to virginiasgp’s 5 PM comment way up there), that opinion is Teflon, RE: colleges/universities no longer taking scores. Last comment: answer to “aptitude generates income.” How about patronage–you know, where sons & daughters of politicians “inherit” their moms’ or daddies’ public offices (as so often happens in ILL-Annoy, e.g.?) Or–how about the Walton heirs, & others of their ilk, who inherit actual great wealth–was their income generated by their aptitude? I think not–more like birthright. (Not to mention the multitudes of others who happen to have been born in the wealthier zipcodes. Finally, this is not assumption, but something I have observed firsthand.
retiredbutmissthekids, here is an article from Slate (progressive bastion no less) about the benefits of IQ as measured by tests like the SAT. Also, there is a big myth about the rich always inheriting their wealth. Out of the 400 billionaires, 273 are self-made. Also, see this infographic on how many have no college degree or had poor parents. It’s a little like the myth that only poor kids go into the military (we can have this discussion if folks like but note that I don’t make assertions I can’t back up).
Lloyd good post on the reading. I came to the conclusion that while much is inborn, my biggest contribution would occur during the first 5 years of my kids life. When the neurons are being formed (6 months after conception till about 3 years), having sufficient and complete protein is critical. But if any instruction affects development of intelligence, it’s highly likely to occur during those first five years (years 1-3 being the most susceptible from what I’ve read). But none of that is relevant to VAMs or SATs. And it also won’t be that significant since the study of identical twins separated at birth naturally measured those effects. Still I made sure I didn’t have to travel for work during those first few years.
Linda, everyone needs grit. I (and many others) often say the biggest contribution a parent makes to their child is not money but values and discipline. Those last long after the last penny is wasted. And I will make the same point in my discussions of the inheritance tax. Inheritance is about 80-yr-olds giving money to 50-yr-olds. It’s not about giving money to kids. If you haven’t made your own way by 50, why should you get tax-free money? Grit is not an excuse not to provide handouts. Grit and discipline are about preparing kids to be self-sufficient. The best argument you could possibly have for handouts is inherited IQ. Have you ever considered that for one second? Btw, Murray essentially made that argument back in the early 1990’s but folks got distracted in that book.
flos56 admits to seeing bad teachers who need to find another field. That implies they were not removed. This is the universal experience of parents. When Diane and her colleagues don’t provide a credible plan to remove them, we are left with VAMs.
And with that, it’s move night here.
Knew this would be your answer, virginiasgap. But notice that I didn’t say that the rich are ALWAYS inheriting their wealth–just citing some examples. Of course I know that large #s of billiionaires (&, if we must get into it, millionaires, as well}) are self-made. Also know that many have no college degrees & poor parents (the poor parents part, then, would go into the mix of those self-made). So–what’s your point, aside that of noting that you “don’t make assertions I can’t back up?” Sorry, but I’m not making assertions here–it seems you failed to read my entire comment or have difficulty comprehending it. I’d said I’d observed what I’d stated firsthand–that is, I have knowledge of & experience with examples I’d given. I’ve read the articles & regularly read professional journals. In terms of SATs & IQs–so what? One-to-one psychological tests are far more reliable measurements of IQ; subjects are not required to fill in bubbles or tap into extraneous skills (such as eye-hand coordination and emotional levels {i.e. anxiety}) which subtract from an optimal level of concentration and performance outcome. That being said, end of discussion–way beyond bedtime here!
“Hard(ly) Science”
Correlation mathturbation
VAMs and SATs
Psychobabbelous sensation
Physics sans the g’s