Richard Ingersoll of the University of Pennsylvania says that teacher turnover costs schools more than $2.2 billion annually.
“One of the reasons teachers quit, he says, is that they feel they have no say in decisions that ultimately affect their teaching. In fact, this lack of classroom autonomy is now the biggest source of frustration for math teachers nationally.”
Ingersoll, who has studied teacher recruitment and retention for many years, says:
“We actually don’t have a lot of research on the decision to stay or not. But we have a lot of data on the flip side: why teachers move to other schools or leave the profession. For example, beginning teachers are more likely to drop out. Those from top colleges — the most selective colleges and universities — are more likely to drop out. And we know that minority teachers are more likely to drop out than white, non-Hispanic teachers.
“But most of the turnover is driven by school conditions. Salary is not the main thing. It’s important, but not the main thing. And that’s an important finding because the teaching force is so large — it’s now America’s largest occupation — that raising everyone’s salaries is a very expensive proposition.
“What are some of the important factors driving the decision to stay or leave?
“One of the main factors is the issue of voice, and having say, and being able to to have input into the key decisions in the building that affect a teacher’s job. This is something that is a hallmark of professions. It’s something that teachers usually have very little of, but it does vary across schools and it’s very highly correlated with the decision whether to stay or leave.
“I’ve worked with these data a lot going back last couple of decades. Where nationally, large samples of teachers are asked, “How much say does the faculty collectively have?” And, “How much leeway do you have in your classroom over a series of issues?” It turns out both levels are really important for decisions whether to stay or to part. And what’s interesting about this finding [is that] this would not cost money to fix. This is an issue of management…..
“One thing we’ve found is that the shrinking classroom autonomy is now the biggest dissatisfaction of math teachers nationally. And this has been a growing issue for math teachers and it’s no doubt tied to the testing and accountability environment where math is one of the main subjects tested. This is a far bigger factor for math teachers than, for instance, salaries. This is the biggest complaint nationally of math teachers. This shrinking autonomy…..”
All of the research or rewards says they same thing: teachers are not in it for the money. The rewards for intrinsically motivated employees are things like autonomy, respect, etc. So, what are the reformers doing? Offering incentive pay, threatening being fired, and reducing any feeling of control teachers had over their jobs. Al of the things that business studies show do not work with intellectual workers.
Steve… is this not done with intention? The more “reformers” do this the more teachers will leave. The “reformers” know this. The teacher “replacements” will be a computer screen and unskilled labor because we all know that “one master teacher creating a lesson plan” is good for anyone to implement! Ughh…
Sick of being a pawn in a sick game.
I realize that I am a sample size of 1. I do, however, agree with Ingersoll’s findings and conclusions.
I have said that I would exchange some of my salary for more autonomy. That opportunity may come to pass. I teach high school and community college (adjunct). I was asked by my evaluator at the community college if I had a desire to teach there full-time. He noted that it would take me six years to have a salary commensurate with my current one. I said that I would still make the move.
Why? More classroom independence. The K-12 atmosphere is increasingly and unnecessarily micromanaged. Yes, I get that we are paid with taxpayer money and they should have some way of knowing that we are doing our jobs responsibly. But that feedback is solely based on hard, and unproven, metrics these days. Plus the observation protocols are narrow. You must do this and you must do that. Sure, best practices exist, but it becomes a repetitive chore for students. (Our administration is really pushing a reading technique on the teachers and insist it should be done daily. Students just get bored and figure out the shortcuts. It’s a tool for periodic use, not the Grail.)
Lastly, our youngest teachers often complain about the way in which they are “coached.” Not because they think they don’t need it but rather because it is very prescriptive. It’s just checking boxes and few people with talent and creativity want to be on the receiving end of that.
You mentioned young teachers and their complaints. The first blog piece I ever wrote in 2012 was about teachers and how they are
“trained.”
https://davidrtayloreducation.wordpress.com/2012/05/10/teachers-the-best-trained-fleas-in-the-state-of-texas/
“Sure, best practices exist, but it becomes a repetitive chore for students…. It’s a tool for periodic use, not the Grail.)”
Best practices belong in a tool box of practices to be pulled out using teacher professional judgement. I taught what the administration wanted to be a canned reading program using my professional judgement. If I followed their lesson plans verbatim, day after day, the kids were bored out of their skulls. It was only by applying my own skills and observations to the mix that I could come anywhere close to meeting the needs of each of my students.
CCSS is a curriculum that tells a math teacher how, what, and when to teach math. CCSS is a dry, rambling, disjoint handling of math using a one sized fits all approach. It makes no sense to teach math to an future engineer the same way as someone going into a program requiring less math. The result of CCSS and PARCC is a mess where “I hate math” becomes a bumper sticker. It does not have to be this way.
A starting math teacher can make double their starting salary in other fields after just a few years. Yes, salary is important. I want my own kids to attend college, too. But get these teacher bashing politicians and clueless billionaires out of my classroom and let me do my job.
Last year due to the new evaluation system – Clark County School District – let 500 licensed teachers go. Nearly at the same time, they hired another 250 Teach for America. This year they are already predicting they will need to hire nearly 3,000 teachers. Given the current legislative session is going to continue attacks on retirement, collective bargaining, and working conditiins . . . there doesn’t seem to be an end in sight.
Pushing forward with breaking up the districts, segregating by racial and econimic lines is not helping either.
How much does this cost Nevada? I would love for someone to reveal the amount my school district spends annually to recruit people it will burn out before year three.
As a fellow CCSD teacher, you are right, there is no end in sight! I am out at a poor rural school, If they break up the district we will have virtually no resources. Our crumbling moldy portable campus will become the best we will get…NPRI (Koch sponsored think tank Nevada Policy Research Institute) will hail this as a great money saving move, but the cost won’t be calculable for years to come. Ultimately these people want a totally private system where parents pay. Read the comments in the Review Journal and you will really feel like slitting your wrists or starting a fight. Nevada’s ignorance will destroy it soon I fear.
2.2 billion represents about 3.3% of our annual national public K-12 expenditures. Compared to what the private sector and even other large government employers spend/lose to turnover, this is remarkably efficient. I’m not a Teaching Economist (wink), but I’m guessing the efficiency is to a significant degree an outgrowth of things like tenure, and compensation being directly tied to years of service.
Turnover is also trending in a positive direction, even after the recession: the retention rate is increasing, and it is increasing across the board, even at districts with the most challenging working conditions. It could be that this trend will slow or reverse due to testing and a lack of autonomy, but I don’t think it is showing up in the most current data.
I’d love to see your sources on this, Tim, because, at least where I am, the turnover rate is rapidly accelerating. I have NEVER seen so many job positions available so early in the hiring cycle. And the retirements! We have had probably double the number of retirements in the last two years than we have had before. This is particularly true of mid-year retirements. That used to almost never happen, and now we had probably 100 retire at Christmas, and several more have retired since then.
This has recent numbers for NYC. It may or may not be representative of your area.
Click to access 2014teacherdemographics.pdf
Thanks, FLERP! Yeah, I don’t think that it’s representative of my area, but that’s interesting to see. I expect that these new laws will accelerate turn-over, though.
Threatened,
I think that Teaching Economist would also note that retention and turnover patterns likely vary from district to district, or even within the same district from year to year. However, there is some good nationwide-level data that suggests turnover among new teachers has gone down quite a bit: https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/education/news/2015/01/08/103421/despite-reports-to-the-contrary-new-teachers-are-staying-in-their-jobs-longer/
(I could be wrong in assuming that the primary driver of teacher turnover, period, is turnover among young teachers, but I don’t think I am.)
In New York City, a challenging district with hundreds of very high-needs schools, the rate of new teacher turnover has also decreased appreciably: http://www.uft.org/files/attachments/attrition-report-feb-2015.pdf. Furthermore, there is a glut of qualified teaching candidates in New York State: http://www.lohud.com/story/news/education/2015/01/23/tough-job-market-teaching-candidates/22235837/
TOW, I wrote a reply with multiple links that is awaiting moderation. If it doesn’t go through I’ll unpack it all somehow.
Agree. At my school 13 teachers are leaving and those are only the ones that have already indicated their decision. This profession is done.
Some of these numbers come from when the economy was really struggling. While it’s no great shakes now, it is a bit better. In Utah, we’re doing really well, with unemployment numbers at about 3%. So maybe that’s why the turnover numbers here are so high–there are a LOT of other jobs around here.
Hogwash turnover is at an all time high. The only ones who are staying are those that are close to retirement or those who let the fear of possibly not having a job hold them back from exploring other options. My school lost 4 of its finest teachers last year. One of them sold their house and moved to a cheaper area pocketed some income from the sold house and had no imminent plans in sight. When I asked him why he had no plan he said having no plan but some extra funds which allowed for some time to plan a course of action was better than teaching for one more day. The second teacher who left went back to school for a computer science degree. The third teacher is now a law student and the fourth was accepted in an anesthesiologist assistant program. Mind you these were not average teachers they were great. Some people know their worth and those that do will not continue to put of with the toxic environment that has been created within the field. It also doesn’t help that in my area a rookie police officer makes what a twenty year teacher makes. We really have our priorities straight down here in Florida don’t we! Look up the Broward County teacher pay scale I dare you and then tell me why anyone would or could remain working under those conditions.
Real one, see my reply to you in the larger commentary, because I do no want it to creep along the side as a sidebar.
I also disagree with the article’s premise that teacher churn costs Districts more. This may be true in the immediate future. However, it will save Districts a ton of cash in the long run. For example, in Florida you are basically stuck at the salary level you are hired at for life due to the elimination of guaranteed step movement. Which means over time, most teachers will be earning around $40,000 for their entire careers. Secondly, Districts are harassing veteran teachers who were fortunate enough to make it to the top of the salary scale with negative evaluations in hopes that they quit. They are even offering them buyouts. This creates a huge savings because you can hire two novice teachers for the price of one maxed out salaried veteran educator Furthermore, in Florida all teachers hired within the last three years and into the future are all permanently designated as annual contract teachers for the rest of their careers. Meaning they can never obtain a professional service contract (tenure) and can be terminated at the end of every year for no specified reason whatsoever. In addition, my former District used to offer incentives where a combination of in service points and college credits beyond the Bachelor’s level could be used to earn a teacher yearly stipends between ($2,000 and $5,000) for their entire careers. These incentives do not exist for new teachers as they have been phased out. Add all of this up as the years go by and Districts will be saving money like never before sadly the money will be saved on backs of students and teachers.
This has been a topic of discussion in Dallas as well, where Broad-trained Mike Miles is superintendent.
Here the take of Tod Robberson, editorial writer (not believed to be writing the pro-reform, pro-Miles editorials that often appear in the Dallas Morning News.)
http://dallasmorningviewsblog.dallasnews.com/2015/03/studies-challenge-miles-plateau-assertion-of-teacher-effectiveness.html/
http://dallasmorningviewsblog.dallasnews.com/2015/04/weighing-to-costs-and-damage-of-teacher-churn-in-public-schools.html/
And the rebuttal by Eric Celeste of D Magazine
http://learningcurve.dmagazine.com/2015/03/30/another-week-another-disd-story-that-is-just-silly/
Here is a tidbit on Celeste
http://www.disdblog.com/2014/10/31/follow-the-money/
As an aside, a recent editorial, endorsing a pro-reform, pro-home charter rule candidate for Dallas ISD school board Edwin Flores. The editorial criticizes his opponent Dr. Kyle Renard because, “Renard, 55, a pediatrician, lost to Flores in 2009. She’s smart but seems captive to anti-reform thinking. She wrote in her Voter Guide questionnaire, “We do not need outside charter schools within our system.” She also objects to Teach for America teachers, who she says “just contribute to the constant turnover in the schools.”
http://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/editorials/20150401-editorial-we-recommend-edwin-flores-for-disd-district-1-trustee.ece
Diane, excluding Mr. Robberson, is there anything that can be said to set this editorial board straight. There is an interview posted from 2011 you did with them. Is this a completely hopeless group? There is low voter turnout in May elections. Morning News endorsements go a long way.
Here are more examples of their pro-corporate reform views:
http://trueschoolreform.org/2015/03/the-dallas-morning-news-credibility-vs-propaganda/
Another point, the Texas Teacher Retirement System (TRS) pays 80% of average salary in last 3 years of service for rest of your life, if age + years of teaching = 85. TFA’s will likely move on to a different career and not draw from this. The Dallas ISD paid TFA over $800,000 in recruitment fees last school year.
Over 5000 teachers have resigned from Dallas ISD since Mike Miles began as superintendent in summer 2012. Many of these were new teachers who quit mid-year, some did not even last a few months or even weeks. The following sites have more information and statistics.
http://dallasisd.us/
http://schoolarchiveproject.blogspot.com/
For me, it looks like those pushing the “reform agenda” no longer believe in the efficacy of democratic principles. Autocracy – yes, call it by its real name Fascism seems to be the philosophy of these people. They alone know what is best for the unwashed public.
I posted the NPR article directly http://www.opednews.com/Quicklink/Revolving-Door-Of-Teachers-in-Best_Web_OpEds-Decision_Force_Frustration_Reason-150402-14.html#comment539682 with this comment (go to the address above if you want the links to these articles (which Diane posted here)
Steve Matthews, superintendent of the Novi school district, here explains how the education profession has been attacked and demonized, with premeditation. He begins: “So you want to kill a profession. It’s easy.”
Stephen Mucher, director of the Bard Master of Arts Teaching program in Los Angeles, warns about the precipitous decline in enrollments in teacher preparation programs.
Teachers are demoralized by scripted curricula and overemphasis on testing. They feel their voice doesn’t count in their workplace. Given the tide of teacher-bashing and mandates, they are right to feel demoralized.
… and finally, who will want to teach if this goes on?… From Lenny Isenberg, at Perdaily: “Professor Diane Ravitch calls it “the dominant narrative.” The incessant litany in the media that says the only things wrong with public education are bad teachers and not enough charter schools.”
Isenberg at Perdaily, continues: “Nazi Reich Minister of Propaganda Joseph Goebbels called this same kind of dominant narrative the big lie :”If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”
“What good public education is about is truth. Not a single truth, but the individual truth that comes from all students being educated to their highest potential. If you thwart this education by establishing a privatized dumbed down public education system, you have created the best mechanism for implementing Goebbels big lie on the largest scale.”
THIS IS A REPLY to the comment of “THE REAL ONE’, but it is TOO IMPORTANT TO CREEP ALONG THE SIDE OF THIS BLOG, SO I AM POSTING IT HERE.
In 1998, when at the top of my career (a story I have outlined here too many times to repeat, I experienced the FIRST assault on the profession to end tenure for those who had earned it.
FOR 16 years, I watched as NYC, and then LAUSD, the 2 biggest districts iof the 15,880 districts in the nation– and then all of the school districts — emptied the schools of the teachers who were approaching the time to be vested. Starved by austerity budgets which were purposely created to target public service jobs, especially education, the teachers were the first to feel the attack.
Please read This article, which I post here often– because it offers the rational that let LAUSD charge and fire 10,000 teachers in the last year alone: http://citywatchla.com/8box-left/6666-lausd-and-utla-complicity-kills-collective-bargaining-and-civil-rights-for-la-s-teachers
Each missing teacher rewards the district with 40k in missing benefits.
So, keeping the door revolving is THE PLAN, and those of us who watched, saw this happen (and there were many teacher abuse activists, whose sites I have listed in the past, who screamed: ” LOOK WHAT THEY ARE DOING TO OUR PROFESSION!”….
http://nycrubberroomreporter.blogspot.com/2009/03/gotcha-squad-and-new-york-city-rubber.html
http://parentadvocates.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=article&articleID=7534
ednotesonline.blogspot.com/
http://protectportelos.org/a-case-for-tenure/
http://protectportelos.org/the-david-pakter-saga-an-all-too-familiar-of-a-story/
But the media was owned by the scoundrels, http://billmoyers.com/segment/john-nichols-and-robert-mcchesney-on-big-money-big-media/
so that the institutions were systematically emptied of the professionals so the ‘patients’ would die, and the institution would fail!
Now in phase 3, the legislatures are taking over the ‘failing schools’ and no educators are making the decisions!
Gates and pals wrote the CC, so it is clear that the future of our nation is in the hands of the oligarchs! ( Hey, wanna see the future? Look who will get to write curricula now! Time to re-invent our history:
Sounds like a plan — and phase 2 came with the revamping of the NCLB act, so that testing not learning, became the objective; a bogus evaluation tool made into national policy not only made it impossible for teachers to succeed, not only blamed them for the school’s failure, but used the nation’s children to do it! Diane’s NY Times book review of how this was accomplished is a must read, if you missed it:
http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2015/apr/02/lost-purpose-no-child-left-behind/
Despicable people turned our schools from places that gave kids a hand up, to a place that kicked them down.
It was only when the people of this country could not get their kids to go to school, that the war on public education became visible, but what is still not grasped — still invisible — HIDDEN is this INSANE WAR ON TEACHERS! I wrote this a decade ago: http://www.speakingasateacher.com/SPEAKING_AS_A_TEACHER/The_Insane_War_on_Teachers_and_Democracy.html
Now, the question becomes: as the Real ONE commented, Who would want to teach?
Since the occupation/job involves complex knowledge, as well as the skillful application of it in the classroom practice, only truly educated, intelligent citizens are needed.
How do we convince bright, young people to spend a fortune to educate themselves, and then go into a job where not only is there no support, but harassment will begin within 3 years, and out they go, no resume and a tarnished reputation.?
How do you say to people who need to make a living in today’s society: “Look, you will maybe begin with 35k, and possibly earn 40k in ten years, and maybe ,if you last get as much as all other professionals earn as starting salaries, and even police and fireman do?…and by the way, you will need to supply your practice with ‘stuff’… and your ‘free’ time during the day will be usurped by administration so you will have to do a great deal at home, (forget a second job) and….
How do you explain that once you are a licensed professional, you have no autonomy in your professional practice, and will NOT be able TO PLAN or TO USE what you have learned to actually ENABLE those kids sitting in front of you, to LEARN? But, in fact, you will have to follow anti-learning mandates, for which YOU will be BLAMED when they inevitably FAIL?
How do you explain, that you have absolutely no rights to due process?
http://www.perdaily.com/2011/01/lausd-et-al-a-national-scandal-of-enormous-proportions-by-susan-lee-schwartz-part-1.html
http://www.perdaily.com/2014/07/former-ctc-attorney-kathleen-carroll-lays-out-unholy-alliance-between-union-and-public-education-pri.html and this:
MOREOVER, if you blow the whistle this can happen:
http://www.perdaily.com/2010/02/yesterday-i-was-removed-from-class-in-handcuffs.html
http://protectportelos.org/does-workplace-bullying-continues-my-33-hrs-behind-bars/
Now, you may ask, why do I say what I have said here, over and over, and over, if it never changes.
Well, from my vantage point, something HAS CHANGED at this blog!
Whereas, in July, when I began to read and write here, the commentaries revolved around VAM and PARCC, and there were many threads about the effect on the children, but few teachers who were saying THIS IS WHAT IS HAPPENING IN MY SCHOOL or this SPELLS THE END OF OUR PROFESSION,
The REAL ONE, whose comment here today demonstrates that EVERYONE KNOWS THIS… well ALL OF US IN THE PROFESSION! And there have been some wonderful posts by Diane on what is happening to the profession:
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-mucher-future-teachers-20150319-story.html
and this one, where Steve Matthews, superintendent of the Novi school district, here explains how the education profession has been attacked and demonized, with premeditation! https://dianeravitch.net/2015/03/28/michigan-superintendent-how-to-kill-a-profession/
Now, it is time to ensure that EVERYONE…the public — knows this , just as they know what Justin Beber is up to.
A film or viral video, a song might catch the conscience of the people, some inciting incident that portrays teachers as the victims they are, instead of showing them marched to jail for cheating…GIVE US A BREAK!!!!
Maybe I am a dreamer, but to me, the only way this will happen is when the ATTORNEYS GENERAL prosecute administrators who trample the rights of citizens who jJUST HAPPEN TO BE TEACHERS!!!!
The charlatans and miscreants who run the schools, have to be shown in handcuffs, for the trauma they inflicted on Americans who just happen to choose a lifetime of dedication and service… teaching!
THIS is A CIVIL RIGHTS ISSUE!
NO ETHNIC MINORITY WOULD SIT STILL TO BE FIRED AT THE WILL OF LIARS!
You are absolutely correct on all fronts. The end game is not to lure bright and motivated individuals into the profession it’s to get rid of them. These people if I can even call them that want nothing more than subservient little worker drones with an IQ below 100 to teach. Why? Because it’s not their children who will be taught by these people. Their children are already set for life. You dumb the populace down you can control everything and good intelligent passionate and dedicated teachers are one of the few remaining obstacles that can reverse this end goal of the oligarchs and they aren’t taking any chances. I will take it a step further; are you guys aware that being too smart will eliminate you from candidacy when applying to be a police officer? It happened to me! One must ask why wouldn’t a great Democratic nation want intelligent police officers? It’s because a more intelligent capable of critical thinking is more prone to question unethical and unjust practices and procedures as apposed to an idiot who will simply follow orders. We are no longer a Democracy as both sides of the aisle have been bought and paid for.
Sorry for the typo the sentence above should have read “Because a more intelligent individual capable of critical thinking” These smartphones are an atrocity to work with.