Bill Moyers is one of my heroes. He is one of the few people in the media who is as concerned about the privatization and monetization of the public sector as I am. He has a long memory, and he has not forgotten that a good society needs both a strong public sector and a strong private sector. Nor has he forgotten that the real civil rights movement was about tearing down the walls of a segregated society and creating equal opportunity for all, not the current effort on the part of billionaires to promote school choice and decimate public education.
I enjoyed talking to him. Here is the full interview as it aired on PBS.
Diane Ravitch's blog 
Reblogged this on McBlog.
LOVE Bill Moyers. .. . one of the last molecules of public figure hope . . . . . . Diane, may you have many more interviews with him.
Bill, if you are reading this, my wife and I are head over heels in love with your show.
Always have been.
Thank you for advocating for the middle and working classes and for attempting to balance our tumor-ridden mass media . . . .
http://cornellsun.com/blog/2014/03/28/students-oppose-state-partnership-with-data-collector/
This is my nephew, Michael Alter, a Cornell student. They are protesting against the inBloom student data craze. Pass it on to help this student activism grow!
One Diane’s best interviews. Concise and comprehensive information! Follow the money!
It was outstanding. I just wish we could see this nightly on the news or on Education Nation.
Really excellent. You were sharp, on point, and answered each question clearly with facts and no evasion. A great synergy between you and Bill Moyers. Wonderful.
Wonderful, Diane. You got a mention on Raw Story, which should send the story out to previously uninformed citizens:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/pe7jz27
Thanks, Chris in Florida, that is great news!
It is also a beautiful thing to see Bill M has an excerpt of DR’s book, Reign of Error, on the site. This is a great excerpt to choose for the site too: Public Education: Who Are the Corporate Reformers?
Thank you Diane Ravitch and Bill Moyers for this very important and profound discussion:
“Education is a $500 B industry – Charter movement is an effort to privatize education – Arnie Duncan made available $4.3 B only to States that lifted their cap on Charter School expansion – 25% of our children live in poverty – Charter schools have pivoted from being collaborative with pubic schools to being competitive – Charter schools are the new emerging market and now that hedge funds are involved they want to win – ALEC is interested in eliminating public education: due process for teachers, collective bargaining and tying teacher evaluations to test scores – Democrats for Education Reform = hedge fund managers – Billionaires are picking on Teaches – the wealthiest people in our country are in alliance with the political power in our country – there is a huge crisis in teaching because many teachers are leaving the profession – Everything the so-called reformers are doing is failing – IF WE AIM FOR EQUITY, WE’LL GET EXCELLENCE.”
Thanks, Diane. If nothing else we’ll finally get a real debate on this, instead of every pundit and consultant and lobbyist and lawmaker telling us this is “settled” and we’re all in agreement.
It’s nonsense. It isn’t informed consent, and that isn’t “consent”. They’re ramming this stuff thru with no debate and no consideration at all of the effect on public schools. I read these state legislators in state after state and it’s as if public schools are already gone and they’re simply winding down our schools as quickly as they can.
It’s outrageous, and NONE of them ran on that, or they wouldn’t have been elected. No one in this country consented to privatizing public schools, no one in this country consented to 150 billionaires and consultants creating a “new governance model” for public schools.
That isn’t what they sold. In Ohio, we were told they wanted to “improve public schools” not abandon our schools and replace them.
If they want to privatize public schools, let them run on that.
You know, when the vice chair of the Ohio House ed committee revealed his goal to privatize every public school in the state and Ohio newspapers picked it up, he ran away from that as fast as he could.
He KNOWS no one in this state ever consented to that, and that if he had RUN on that, he would have lost. The vice chair of the ed committee in the statehouse doesn’t value our public schools at all. How are public schools going to fare under this type of ed reform “leadership”?
Not well. And they haven’t been faring well under “ed reform” leadership. Our public schools aren’t “stronger” after a decade of this. They’re weaker.
It’s time they ran on this stuff, instead of these vague slogans like “great schools!” and “accountability” and “choice!”
Chiara, the reason the reformers cover themselves with phony rhetoric is that the American people would never vote for a candidate who said openly that his goal was to abolish local school boards and public education. The overwhelming majority of the American people–according to the PDK poll–are happy with their local public school. They don’t want it to be taken over by a corporation or hedge fund managers who have the power to pick and choose their students.
That’s exactly what’s going on in Dallas with a “Home Rule” initiative funded by an Enron billionaire.
The comments after show that the public is wary and catching on.
From today’s paper:
http://www.dallasnews.com/news/education/headlines/20140328-billionaire-john-arnold-explains-support-for-disd-home-rule.ece
Can you also — please — get a transcript? It would help those who wish to quote later…
George, I will ask for a transcript.
DIANE RAVITCH: In terms of the public coffers there are billions of dollars, but I think what’s at stake is the future of American public education. I believe it is the foundation stone – one of the foundation stones of our democracy. So an attack on public education is an attack on democracy….
*********
BILL MOYERS: So this puts their accountability off limits, right?
DIANE RAVITCH: Right. And in fact, in many states, the charter schools don’t have to hire certified teachers. BILL MOYERS: So this puts their accountability off limits, right?
DIANE RAVITCH: Right. And in fact, in many states, the charter schools don’t have to hire certified teachers. So we’re moving in a direction that is harmful to democracy. That is not good for kids. And that will not improve education. And so when you say how do I feel about the charter movement, I’d say that it should return to its original purposes, which is to help the neediest kids. To seek out the kids with the lowest test scores, not the highest ones, and to do, to collaborate with public education to make it better.
But what it has turned into, and I think that Reed Hastings’ speech puts that very well, is an attack on democracy and an effort to replace public education. That if 90 percent of all the kids are in charters, the other 10 percent that’s left, that’s called public schools, will be the dumping grounds for the kids that the charters don’t want. That’s a direct attack on our democracy.
. That is not good for kids. And that will not improve education. And so when you say how do I feel about the charter movement, I’d say that it should return to its original purposes, which is to help the neediest kids. To seek out the kids with the lowest test scores, not the highest ones, and to do, to collaborate with public education to make it better.
But what it has turned into, and I think that Reed Hastings’ speech puts that very well, is an attack on democracy and an effort to replace public education. That if 90 percent of all the kids are in charters, the other 10 percent that’s left, that’s called public schools, will be the dumping grounds for the kids that the charters don’t want. That’s a direct attack on our democracy.
BILL MOYERS: When you were on the money trail, looking at how this money influences the movement, you ran into the American Legislative Exchange Council, ALEC. What did you learn about ALEC?
DIANE RAVITCH: ALEC is an organization, as I discovered, that’s been around since 1973. It has something like 2,000 or more state legislators who belong to it. And ALEC is very, very interested in eliminating public education.
It has model legislation, which has been copied in state after state, in some cases verbatim…
“I find myself outraged that our public school system is not being strengthened and improved. I don’t want it to stay the way it is. I’m not defending the status quo. When I see a status quo that’s controlled by the wealthiest people on our country in alliance with the political power in our country, it makes me want to rail against it. And I’m railing against it as best I can.”
“Our Democracy” gave us NCLB.
“Our Democracy” has been in bed with ALEC since 1973.
“Our Democracy” gave us Secretary of Education, Arne Duncan, put out $4.3 billion called Race to the Top. And he said to the states, you can’t be eligible for any part of this money unless you lift your cap on charter schools. So suddenly the lure of getting that federal money made many states change their laws to open the door to many, many more charter schools…
“Our Democracy” has given the Deformers, dozens of bankers, hedge fund types, private equity investors, and billionaires a “Seat at the Table”.
Calling the management concept favored by the Elites that hold REAL political and
economic power “Our Democracy” plays on credibility, as credulity is diminished
when “Lessons or Foundation stones” are in conflict with reality.
NoBrick,
Democratic societies make terrible mistakes, especially when elected officials are bought off with big money.
If we can’t rely on the people to stand up for their rights, then we have no chance to preserve those rights, and no chance for our future.
I prefer to look on a different possibility.
We had slavery in this country, and we have to fight a terrible civil war to rid ourselves of it.
We had generations of legally endorsed racial segregation, and our courts and our Congress finally banned it.
The world has passed through terrible and cataclysmic events in the past century.
We must not willingly submit to evil. We must believe that we can overcome.
History moves slowly.
Martin Luther King Jr said that the arc of history moves slowly but it bends toward justice.
I place my hope in that belief.
Hey, how many public schools parents from CA, NY, or LA have been invited to this exclusive retreat for ed reformers so they can plan “our public schools”?
Do people want to continue to tell me this is “small and local and community-driven”? There isn’t a single dissenting voice invited this thing, nor is there anyone advocating for existing public schools.
What an absolute joke:
Please join:
The Honorable Andrew Cuomo
Honorary Chairman
Joe Williams
Executive Director, Education Reform Now
And Special Guests
Senator Mary Landrieu
Mayor Michael Hancock
Mayor Kevin Johnson
Russlynn Ali
M. Night Shyamalan
Adirondack Mountains
Lake Placid, NY
Whiteface Lodge
May 4 – 6, 2014
http://www.campphilos.org/
A couple of mayors have dropped out. Did those mayors run on privatizing public schools when they were elected? Why did they agree to attend and then drop out? Because they don’t want a PUBLIC affiliation with this “movement”?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/18/education-reform-mayors_n_4119868.html
“Now there’s a new group of Democratic mayors with an interest in education beyond the borders of their cities. And they’re hoping to be more subtle about changing public education than their predecessors.
This week, four politically ascendent mayors from smaller cities — Julián Castro of San Antonio; Angel Taveras of Providence, R.I.; Michael Hancock of Denver; and Kevin Johnson of Sacramento, Calif. — kicked off a what they’re calling the “Mayors for Educational Excellence Tour” in Denver. The goal, according to promotional materials, is to “learn how each city is helping spark significant turnarounds in their different regions of the country and how to scale these achievements.” The group plans to visit all four of their cities by March.
The tour is not branded as an education reform effort.
That term often conjures images of Republicans, Democrats and hedge-fund donors who advance policies that promote charter schools and rigorous teacher evaluations, and has become so loaded that a school board candidate in Denver recently referred to it as the “r-word.”
Even so-called reformers have recognized the shortcomings of their good-vs.-evil narrative. John White, the schools chief of Louisiana who made his name as a New York City deputy education chancellor under Joel Klein, recently gave a speech arguing reformers must adapt to survive. He said America’s inherently populist tendencies will topple the movement if it doesn’t move beyond the same old fights and self-righteous justifications.”
Hey, you don’t rebrand unless you’ve got a problem. Apparently the Democrats have decided to change the name of the same old menu of privatization.
Brilliant! But also deeply dishonest and misleading to the public. Why don’t they run on what they believe in? Because they’re scared of America’s “populist tendencies” which I guess means “elections”. They have to get elected!
Julián Castro of San Antonio; Angel Taveras of Providence, R.I.; Michael Hancock of Denver; and Kevin Johnson of Sacramento, Calif. —
All of those mayors are big supporters of charters and privatization. Castro is turning over about 25% of San Antonio’s children to corporate charter chains, including some known for high attrition rates and others known for shunning diversity. Denver is one of the epicenters of privatization/reform/testing. Johnson is Michelle Rhee’s husband and a major recipient of Walton funding. Taveras has pursued more privatization for Providence.
Excellence? No. Privatization? Yes.
“On May 4-6, Education Reform Now, the 501c3 partner of Democrats for Education Reform, will assemble the nation’s premier progressive leaders on education for the first ever Philosopher’s Camp. “Camp Philos” will be the insiders exchange for policy and political ideas on education reform among the nation’s top elected officials, advocacy leaders, and philanthropists.”
Camp Philos 2014 will convene at the majestic Whiteface Lodge in Lake Placid, NY; recognized on the Condé Nast Traveler’s Gold List- World’s Best Places to Stay, 2012.”
Oh, it’s all very local and grass roots. You betcha. Obviously, these are people “in the trenches” at the local level, you know, where “change happens”.
It’s the same lock-step group of charter cheerleaders that attend all these events.
Public schools will take a real beating at this thing. They’ll be lining up at the microphones to bash local public schools they have never so much as entered and don’t value.
Clear, warm, calm, factual, persuasive as always. How important that students, teachers, and democracy have you speaking out on these issues—Our Village Elders, you and Bill.
For use on Twitter: Just copy, paste and ReTweet often. The short link was converted using Bitly and leads to the original page on Bill Moyers site.
Bill Moyers reveals
Public Ed robbed
as bankers
hedge fund managers
& private equity investors
go after $500 Billion
http://bit.ly/1jjSeuH
Comments?
PISA Results 2012 – Rankings
United States – Math – 36th, Science – 28th and Reading – 24th
Vietnam – Math – 17th, Science – 8 and Reading – 19th
When British Prime Minister David Cameron spoke to the Canadian Parliament, he mentioned that Alberta schools routinely rank higher than those of any other English-speaking jurisdiction in international tests of educational competence. The fact is interesting in itself, but the reason behind it is even more interesting – that there is such a high degree of competition in Alberta’s educational sector. Of course, a degree of educational competition exists in other provinces, but Alberta has gone further by combining all forms of competition present in Canada with other innovations.
Click to access e-brief_164.pdf
Michael, You have far more faith in the PISA rankings than I do.
Finland has no competition and scores very well indeed.
What exactly is your point?
What a joke.
Who decided that the goal of public education was high PISA scores? What kind of insecurity drives you to need to “win” bogus competitions against countries that are nothing like the USA? Why do you hate American schools? Any comment?
To the owner of this blog: thank you so much.
And thank you to Bill Moyers as well.
😎
Also, a PBS News Hour/John Merrow video piece on Arne Duncan, with references and interview w/ Diane Ravitch:
link
Thanks for your shout out to groups from TN. We continue to fight for our kids!
Brava, Diane! This is your best interview yet. I posted it on my Facebook page giving props to Moyers in part so my friends who aren’t already hanging on your every word will watch & listen. This is the interview to share with EVERYONE.
Diane, Thank you for leading the charge to counteract the charter school movement= privatization of education/decimation of public schools. I retired from active teaching 3 years ago and moved to North Carolina. I am seeing first hand how demoralized teachers here are. At the same time, there are students who are speaking out against what is happening in their state. I recently attended a rally organized and led by a high school senior. I, too, will share this interview on Facebook, with everyone, not just my own friend list. That’s a first for me. Your message is too important to limit it to just a few of my friends.
Some subscribers to Diane’s blog might be interested in a discussion list post “Re: Charter Schools: A Marketplace for Profits or Ideas?” [Hake (2014)]. The abstract reads:
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ABSTRACT: In a discussion “Charter Schools: A Marketplace for Profits or Ideas?” Bill Moyers’ http://bit.ly/1feQ5iw interviewed Diane Ravitch, who stated: “The lure of getting federal money made many states change their laws to open the door to many, many more charter schools. . . . . . . Public education is becoming big business as bankers, hedge fund managers, and private equity investors are entering what they consider to be an ’emerging market.’ As Rupert Murdoch put it http://bit.ly/1pAwGMh after purchasing an education technology company, ‘When it comes to K through 12 education, we see a $500 billion sector in the US alone’ . . . . . . I think what’s at stake is the future of American public education. I believe it is one of the foundation stones of our democracy: So an attack on public education is an attack on democracy.”
See also “Here is the Bill Moyers Interview in Full” [Ravitch (2014)] at http://bit.ly/1mFTAmo.
Over 4 decades ago economist Albert O. Hirschman (1970) in “Exit, Voice, and Loyalty: Responses to Decline in Firms, Organizations, and States” http://bit.ly/11QKoRB, made a case against charter-schools similar to that made by Ravitch. He first quoted the conservative economist Milton Friedman who argued that SCHOOL VOUCHERS SHOULD REPLACE THE CURRENT PUBLIC-SCHOOL SYSTEM, writing “Parents could express their views about schools directly, by withdrawing their children from one school and sending them to another.”
Hirschman then countered (my CAPS): “[Friedman’s opinion] is a near perfect example of the ECONOMIST’S BIAS IN FAVOR OF EXIT AND AGAINST VOICE: In the first place, Friedman considers withdrawal or exit as the ‘direct’ way of expressing one’s unfavorable views of an organization. *A person less well trained in economics might naively suggest that the direct way of expressing views is to express them!* Secondly, the decision to voice one’s views and efforts to make them prevail are contemptuously referred to by Friedman as a resort to ‘cumbrous political channels.’ But what else is the political, and indeed the democratic, process than the digging, the use, and hopefully the slow improvement of these very channels?”
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To access the complete 57 kB post please click on http://bit.ly/1hcMHkF.
REFERENCES [URL shortened by http://bit.ly/ and accessed on 01 April 2014.]
Hake, R.R. 2014. “Re: Charter Schools: A Marketplace for Profits or Ideas?”online on the OPEN! AERA-L archives at http://bit.ly/1hcMHkF. The abstract and link to the complete post are being transmitted to several discussion lists and are also on my blog “Hake’sEdStuff” at http://bit.ly/1mGrN5i.
Diane,
I’m curious about one comment that you made, which was that Teachers of the Year have been fired due to test scores. Can you tell me where this has happened?
Also, I know of Teachers Of The Year that were fired because of Last In First Out as well. In your opinion, is there any criteria that could be successful in keeping both of these from happening?
Linda Darling Hammond and Audrey Amrein-Beardsley both wrote about Houston firing its teacher of the year. Since first year teachers are generally acknowledged as the weakest teachers, it is unlikely that many first year teachers would be ether of the year, unless it is a charter where every teacher is a first-or second-year teacher.
Thank you for the reference. FWIW, they both write about the same teacher, who remains anonymous, and also point out that dismissals in Houston were based on multiple factors, including VAM.
On the other hand, searching for “teacher of the year” LIFO on Google brought up lots of references, with names, of teachers of the year being laid off due to LIFO.
So it seems that neither of these extremes can get it right. In your opinion, is there an answer?