I have posted about an accidental exchange between teacher John Ogozolek and Professor Laurence Steinberg, and it continued here.
And here is more of the exchange, posted as comments on the blog:
Laurence Steinberg writes:
“I’m the author of the Slate column Diane has critiqued. I think my argument is being mischaracterized both by her and some others.
“The object of my criticism is our schools, not our kids. Nowhere did I say that American teenagers are lazy. What I said is that they aren’t being challenged. That’s very different. As to the claim that the NAEP data aren’t to be believed, I’m willing to buy that, in part. But the data on the high proportion of high school grads who require remedial education in order to handle college, as well as the high proportion who drop out (often, for non-financial reasons, studies say) aren’t made up. And they drain our education budget. Plus, in addition to the NAEP, there are other sources of information that paint a similar picture, including PISA and TIMMS, as well as surveys conducted by Public Agenda and studies by Tom Loveless, John Bishop, and me (all of whom Diane used to commend). (Contrary to what many people think, other PISA participating countries are required to test the full range of students, not just their college-bound ones).
“And as to the anecdotes, that’s exactly what they are. It’s like denying that there’s an obesity epidemic because one knows a couple of thin people, or that there is climate change because it’s been a rough winter in the Northeast and Midwest. Of course there are good teachers, good schools, and good students in the United States. But when 85 percent of American students say they’ve never taken a very difficult class, and when two thirds of American students say school is boring, there clearly is a problem. To pretend otherwise is just plain wrong.
Laurence Steinberg
Professor of Psychology
Temple University”
John Ogozalek writes:
“Many years ago (25+) Dr. Steinberg wrote an op-ed piece for the Times comparing attitudes towards schooling in the U.S. versus cultural differences in Japan.. It was a fascinating article and I used the piece for years because my students were invariably insulted by what Dr. Steinberg wrote and it provoked great classroom discussions. (In fact, I used the article when I went for a job interview back in 1993. The upscale suburban school where I was interviewing wanted me to teach a sample class. That Dr. Steinberg lesson was so good that the principal offered me the job right on the spot. Thanks, Doc! Though, I decided not to take that job and ended up staying at my small, rural school, a decision I’ve never regretted.)
“The first time I used that op-ed piece my kids were so interested that I had them write letters to Dr. Steinberg. This was all prior to the advent of e-mail, blogging, and twitter. We’re talking the last century. And, the good doctor very generously replied in writing, making a point very similar to his comments above -that, yes, data does matter. I really appreciated Dr. Steinberg’s willingness to correspond with my class way back then and I vividly remember reading his comments verbatim and using his letter again and again to teach my kids about how social sciences work. Great.
“But then I picked up a copy of Dr. Steinberg’s 1996 book…”Beyond the Classroom” which expanded on that original Times op-ed piece. And, damn, there was my class -my students!- mentioned in a not so nice way.
“The kids had written letters that, in hindsight, I should have had them revise more and proofread. That was my mistake, my sloppiness -a lesson I learned as a new teacher many years ago. But, boy, the reference to my students in that book was sort of nasty and, if I remember right, kind of factually off base, also. Wow. Had Dr. Steinberg been a bit sloppy, too? I remember being pretty mad. I was hurt because our original correspondence had been so positive and friendly. And, these were great kids! But there we were, amid the ocean of data in that book… one of the few islands of real life people.
“I remember writing Dr. Steinberg repeated letters after that book came out hoping he’d revise later editions of his work. I think I had some of the kids write, too. But then I bought another copy and nothing about my class seemed to be changed. I kept writing Dr. Steinberg so much about the book that, if I remember correctly, he eventually threatened to TELL MY PRINCIPAL ON ME! (Which is still really funny because as union president I was such a pain in the ass to my principal back then that when I went to tell him he might be getting a call from a professor down at Temple University, he just sort of shook his head and said nothing. What next!)
“My wonderful wife remembers all the details of the “Dr. Steinberg affair” much better than me, God bless her. We were talking about it yesterday after Diane posted that great piece based on my original letter to her.
“For years, I kept my copies of Beyond the Classroom really WAY beyond my classroom, stored in a derelict farmhouse we have down the road on the family property. But then, we had to clean out that building and the books and most of the other stuff associated with the “Steinberg Affair” got chucked into a trash truck. Actually wheelbarowed in by one of the students I’d hired to help out. How’s that for irony? Sorry, doc.
“I had to move on. I have so many students I need to worry about every day…kids I care about. I barely have enough time to talk to all the wonderful people I see each morning….kids who are happy or scared or bored or just plain missing from my classroom….where are they? The only reason I have time to be writing this right now is that we have yet another snow day off….otherwise I’d be sitting in my classroom at this moment….6:30 a.m…getting ready for another day.
“I can actually laugh about my much younger self, the great and scary times I had as a beginning teacher and the way the world was back then prior to the internet. But here we are, Dr. Steinberg, still on opposite sides of the same divide.
“Data does matter but we’re not just numbers. We’re people and this system is dehumanizing us.
“To that end, Larry, I really would like to bury the hatchet from years ago. I’m sure you’re a fascinating, intelligent, great guy to talk to. I WOULD buy you lunch.
“But Diane Ravitch, as I wrote to her yesterday, deserves dinner at the best restaurant in town!
“Be well.
-John O.”
As far as I’m concerned, John, there was never a hatchet to bury. I doubt very much that I threatened to report you to your principal, but we’re talking about something that happened more than 25 years ago, and I have no recollection of it.
Larry
“What I said is that they aren’t being challenged.”
I invite you to come ask my high school students if they are being challenged in my classes. And I can assure you that I am not an outlier in that regard.
I worked four summers for the Summer Institute for the Gifted and heard several speeches from earnest academic directors about their worry that the kids were not being challenged.
Such speeches made a great case for the $3,000 tuition to attend these 3 week camps, but what I took away from it was that for every academic dean who took a summer job with SIG to quell their worry over kids not bring challenged, there were twenty more back in their home towns (like Duane) gearing up for the following school year where they would be challenging kids.
Worry is a waste. Do something to challenge kids if you are worried. Start with one star fish, so to speak. But don’t take down an entire system of reaching kids over it.
Truly. There are peeps doing the job. We got this! Quit worrying.
Larry,
As a proponent of Common Core,
I have a question for you:
What if a U.S. Surgeon General
told the nation’s parents that a
great new vaccine has just been
invented, and it’s going to
revolutionize the health of
children and their ability
to fight off disease … blah-
blah-blah…. all the while
the Surgeon General is
being handsomely
compensated for pushing
this vaccine.
And then someone asks,
“Mr. Surgeon General… why
don’t you give that new vaccine
to YOUR OWN children? If the
vaccine is so great, why do
you spend tons of your own
money so that your kids get
an entirely different, and—
by all measures—a superior
vaccine?”
“My children’s vaccination is
none of your business, and
not fair ground for discussion.”
And to add insult to injury,
the hypothetical Surgeon
General intones, “Your kids
are all going to be forced
to take this vaccine whether
you like or not.” With the
power of the state behind
him, he says that, figuratively
speaking, he and the state
will shove it down your kids’
throats, or strap them to
a chair and forcibly inject
into their biceps whether
or not their parents desire
such a vaccine.
“This is what we’re doing,
and there’s nothing you can
do to stop us… so just shut
up and accept it.”
You can see how parents
might be a little vexed by
such a prospect.
Of course, you know I’m
talking about New York State
Ed. Commissioner John King
and his forcing Common
Core on other people’s
children, while keeping his own
children… figuratively
speaking… as far away from
Common Core as his Gates-
originated salary can afford.
Seriously… if Common Core
is the greatest thing ever
for a kid’s education, why
does King spend tens of
thousands of dollars of
expensive private school
tuition to make sure his own
children are kept away from it?
Check out the crucial final 20 min.
of last October’s town hall in
Poughkeepsie, New York,
where NY State Ed.
Commissioner John King
faced the public over his
backing of Common Core.
Here is the colorfully titled
YouTube video —
“Commissioner King Gets Spanked”:
This meeting was a Rhee-like
farce where King spoke for 2
hours straight, and was scheduled
to to be followed by 1 hour of
public comments and questions.
Note that… ***was scheduled to
be followed…***
The best laid plans…
Indeed, 20 minutes in, neither
King nor the NY State PTA
moderator “could stand the
heat, so they got outta the kitchen.”
They were totally unprepared by
how well-informed and
confrontational these parents were.
At about the 10 minute mark, one
parent brought up the fact that King
sends his own kids to a Montessori
School which has a curriculum that
is the antithesis of Common Core
as a Montessori school is…
(to quote its wikipedia entry)
– – – – – – – – – – – – –
“… characterized by an emphasis on
independence, freedom within limits,
and respect for a child’s natural
psychological, physical, and social
development….
“… and has these elements
as essential:[1][2]
” — Mixed age classrooms, with
classrooms for children aged
2½ or 3 to 6 years old by far the
most common
“— Student choice of activity
from within a prescribed range of
options
“— Uninterrupted blocks of work
time, ideally three hours
“— A Constructivist or ‘discovery’
model, where students learn
concepts from working with
materials, rather than by direct
instruction.
“Specialized educational materials
developed by Montessori and her
collaborators
“— Freedom of movement within
the classroom
” — A trained Montessori teacher
“In addition, many Montessori
schools design their programs
with reference to Montessori’s
model of human development
from her published works, and
use pedagogy, lessons, and
materials introduced in teacher
training derived from courses
presented by Montessori
during her lifetime… ”
– – – – – – – – – – – –
This disclosure of his hypocrisy
and implied attack on King pretty
much ended things.
King made the dubious claim that
his Montessori school scrupulously
follows “Common Core”
This totally enraged the audience
of parents as it was and is a
ludicrous and demonstrably false
claim that was rightly met with
skepticism and loud booing,
enraging the crowd… if for
no other reason that folks
don’t like to be lied to or have
their intelligences insulted.
Seriously… if Common Core
is the greatest thing ever
for a kid’s education, why
does King spend tens of
thousands of dollars of
expensive private school
tuition to make sure his own
children are, figuratively
speaking, kept as far away from
it as as Gates-funded salary
can afford.
It’s like if a Surgeon General
told the nation’s parents that a
great new vaccine has just been
invented, and it’s going to
revolutionize the health of
children and their ability
to fight off disease … blah-
blah-blah…. all the while
the Surgeon General is
being handsomely
compensated for pushing
this vaccine.
And then someone asks,
“Mr. Surgeon General… why
don’t you give that new vaccine
to YOUR OWN children? If the
vaccine is so great, why do
you spend tons of your own
money so that your kids get
an entirely different, and—
by all measures—a superior
vaccine?”
“My children’s vaccination is
none of your business, and
not fair ground for discussion.”
Anyway, back to the town
hall video…
The flustered moderator then
quickly wrapped it up, “We’re going
to allow two more people to speak.”
At which point people began
screaming even louder:
“WHAT HAPPENED TO ‘ONE
HOUR’ ?!!!”
This is absolutely riveting video.
Again, you can see that crucial
final 20 minutes at:
I just noticed something while
watching this video. King
sends his kid to a “private
school”… but he doesn’t
use the phrase….
Instead, he calls his kids’
school a “non-public school”…
(at 15:52)
KING: “Non-public schools
are part of the community
of schools in our state… ”
It’s part of some Neuro-
Linguistic Programming
technique to subliminally
get the people in the
audience to not associate
King with elitists who avoid
the public schools and
instead send their kids to…
yes… PRIVATE schools…
No, he’s just like all you
“public” school parents.
I think it’s called “negation”
where what follows the
negation… in this case..
the negation is the weasel
prefix “non”, and what follows
it is “public”… with the “public
being what actually is actually
processed by the mind..
By calling it “non-public”
the word “public” is in the
phrase, and that’s what
gets processed… with
people then NOT associating
King with “private” schools…
i.e. avoid using the word
“private” at any cost.
Thanks, Jack!
And, you know, if Larry Steinberg wants to make education more challenging, and I believe he does, the Common Core in New York State is a giant step in the WRONG direction. So many great teachers I know are either retiring or soon to be out the door. And, a very experienced principal I know, too. Why would someone stick around and subject themselves (and their students!) to such a humiliating, dehumanizing, unhealthy experience if they could somehow get out?
Imagine if a gang of so-called education “experts” (paid for by corporate cash and anointed by a political hack like Andrew Cuomo) showed up at Temple University. They walk in during your class one day and say, no, you’re doing it all wrong. So, now read from these scripted “modules” and make sure you’re saying the same words at the very same moment as the other professors teaching down the hallway! Not that any of this crap has ever been really tested, as you pointed out, Jack. That’s what’s happening at some schools around the country.
How long would full professors put up with this kind of insult?
A very erudite scholar like Larry Steinberg might last about two weeks working in many of our public high schools. Some nitwit consultant who knows nothing about psychology would probably come into his classroom and tell him he didn’t know what he was doing (in their oh-so condescending, “we’re only here to help you” way.) I’d love to be sitting there right next to him, hoping he’d come up with the perfect retort.
The fact is, there’s ALWAYS something new I can learn to help me be a better teacher…..from teachers down the hall, the principal in the office downstairs, my colleagues in neighboring districts….a guy like Larry Steinberg. But the State of New York is changing our schools in such wrong-headed, demeaning way. Orwellian, Kafkaesque, bizarre…are just a few words that come to mind almost every day.
My favorite John B. King video was from when the state education department first tried to roll out their common core madness. We were herded into a classroom and, after getting a few opening remarks from some outside, paid consultant (your tax dollars at work!) the good ‘old TV was turned on. Yup, cut to the video.
John B. King and a crew of his self-proclaimed educational :”rock stars” having a talk show-style chat about the wonders of their educational great leap forward. The set looked like something from the 1970s. It was like watching a skit on Saturday Night Live.
I kept thinking, YOU GOTTA BE KIDDING ME???
No. They. Are. Not.
So, in the end, just what life outcomes are known to be prediced by scores on academic tests, whether TIMMS, PISA, NAEP? Where do you look for evidence of a life lived well, fully, and with some degree of joy and independence?
If you are only looking at test scores you are engaging in highly reductive thinking about being well educated and living well. You are leaving behind a whole lot of information about teaching and learning just because there are not affordable (cost effective), reliable, and valid metrics from which to make inferences.
Yep, and therein lies the age old problem…you get what you pay for…cheap tests don’t tell you anything you couldn’t figure out from a look at the zip-code (success on a standardized test) or high school grades (success in college)…a REAL reform would be to donate money to give the expensive tests that might actually tell us something we didn’t already know…
Some thoughts/questions..
Regarding “But the data on the high proportion of high school grads who require remedial education in order to handle college,…”
What is this proportion?
Also, is it possible that this is a result of colleges admitting students who very obviously (a look at transcript, GPA, etc.) did not choose college prep type classes in high school? Perhaps they did not really want to attend college in the first place?
I have noticed a shift over my 20+ year etching career. At one time the students who did not like school and were not interested in further schooling had many career/life options. No one pushed them toward college. Now I experience a big push (counselors, teachers, family members, the media, seemingly everywhere) for almost all kids to “at least try” college.
Regarding: “85 percent of American students say they’ve never taken a very difficult class”
I don’t know the details of this study, how it was conducted, etc.. But I do know a lot about teenagers. I often talk with students who are not doing well in various classes. They generally have a very deep arsenal of “reasons”. Boring, too easy, bad teacher, etc. But when digging deeper, asking the clarifying questions and keep them talking, you often get a lot more. The “blame others” categories drop off (usually) and the kid must admit to not making any effort, or not attending regularly, having family issues that take up his heart and mind, actually having difficulty learning, some physical malady, all sorts of things. I have especially seen this with students who have dropped out. The “easy reasons” are not the real reasons.
Again, this is just me experience, but I generally look at the results of surveys given to young people regarding something they did with a bit of “side eye”.
I, too, am very suspicious of free floating numbers purporting to speak for a majority of students. That being said, I wonder what perportion of those “85% who say they have never taken a difficult class would say they have challenged themselves. We seem to regularly forget that half the equation is the student.
Exactly.
” perportion” Are you kidding me?! Arghh! Proportion. I just couldn’t ignore it.
Larry,
Nice to hear from you after all this time.
Rather than rehash whatever faint, not-so-great memories I have from 20+ years ago, let me describe a wonderful time in my classroom that was prompted by your original op-ed piece, written so long ago.
Back in the small, K-12 school where I started teaching we had a superintendent who was, how can I say it, difficult to deal with. Actually, he scared the heck out of me -though to be fair he could also be very helpful, too, at times. He was hard to predict.
One day this superintendent (the district was so small we didn’t have a principal) came lurking into my classroom and, yup, it was clear he was there with his yellow legal pad, ready to observe me. Yikes! One never knew what to expect. I mean, Larry, this was a moment of real fear.
But I just happened to be teaching my lesson based on YOUR New York Times op ed piece…your article about Japanese schools…..and we were already in the middle of this great discussion.
The kids were mad about what you’d written (as usual) and the superintendent took a very real interest. I could tell. Then he jumped in and started taking your side, so to speak, arguing in support of your work. He was picking an academic fight with my students…. and it was perfect.
I sort of stepped aside as one young woman in class, Anne, took up the lead, arguing politely but relentlessly with the superintendent. She was sharp -really bright- and they just kept on going…..until the bell rang and class was over.
The observation of that particular class is probably still buried in a district personnel file somewhere….God only knows where my copy went.
I do recall the main student involved in that debate with the superintendent, Anne, was a little bit worried after the whole thing was over.
But then a wonderful thing happened. That scary guy, that superintendent, sent Anne a letter, thanking her for their intelligent debate. It’s a really nice memory of a great student I had years ago. In fact, after writing about all this stuff earlier today, I pulled out all my old yearbooks and started looking up some of these former kids on the internet. I love to hear from them.
So, I guess I have a lot to THANK you for Larry. Though, I have to admit that I’ve always been a bit jealous of you, too, truth be told. I carried that New York Times op ed piece you wrote around with me for such a long time…..and I always wanted to have them publish something I wrote, too.
But, no. I keep writing to the Times complaining about the Common Core, describing the dehumanizing treatment of students and teachers these days, commenting on the asinine things their columnists sometimes write…..and the New York Times WON’T PUT ANY OF MY LETTERS IN! Larry, what’s a guy got to do to get something published in the Times???? You’ve been in there.
That’s why I’ve been so HAPPY to have Diane Ravitch publish something I wrote in her blog. She’s so intelligent and I respect her so much.
So, Larry, maybe YOU can do me a favor and write something about how New York State Commissioner of Education John B. King is treating teachers and students? Perhaps the Times would put something in you write? King is being a REAL JERK. Take it from me. This guy thinks he knows it all. How long did he actually teach for -like three years? Does he ever admit he’s wrong????
What a mess in New York State. The sort of great lesson I taught using your op-ed piece years ago is being squeezed out by pre-programed “modules” of corporate created pap. Critical thinking?
I’d buy you lunch, Larry. Diane Ravitch gets a great dinner.
Dr. John B. King gets……zilch…….nothing.
Speaking of food……Gotta go buy a pizza for my family. My kids have started calling me a nerd for sitting here in front of this computer for so long.
Take care,
-John O.
I love your response. It is so easy for others to write articles and opine about all of the ills of education in America. I’m really sick of it. It’s funny how you mention that you write to the Times yet they print nothing. We have a group around Michigan who magically always get their opinions printed in the local news media. They are called Midwest Trust. It’s all a joke.
Diane, et. al.-Stay on the offense! Let’s get them answering us for awhile!
Jack Burgess
_____
Thought I would mention this:
“Dr. Steinberg was the lead scientist in the preparation of the American Psychological Association’s amicus briefs submitted to the U.S. Supreme Court in Roper v. Simmons, which abolished the juvenile death penalty; Graham v. Florida, which banned the use of life without parole for juveniles convicted of non-homicide crimes; and Miller v. Alabama, which prohibited the use of mandatory life without parole for all juvenile crimes.”
For these extraordinarily important contributions to making ours a more decent, more humane society, kudos to Dr. Steinberg.
I was not a fan of that letter he wrote, but he’s no villain. Not by a long shot.
Thank you for reminding me that while I may take offense at someone’s actions, that action does not necessarily define that person (or, for that matter, make me right!).
Robert,
It’s always nice to see some LIGHT rather just heat in a discussion, so to speak. I’m glad to read your post.
Take care,
-John O.
And I was delighted by your letters, John. Delighted.
Yes, there are very few mustache twirling evil villains straight out of central casting.
Heck, perhaps even Michelle Rhee is kind to animals or donates to charity. Maybe Duncan helps old ladies to cross the street. What if Bill Gates picks up litter when he strolls through the park?
Funny things, human beings.
🙂
Professor Steinberg may not be a villain, but in his comment above, he comes across as smug and dismissive. I’ll cast my lot with Mr. Ogozolek, the obviously qualified teacher with a sense of humor who’s been in the classroom for twenty-five years and counting, rather than the stuffy academic with a national platform who takes potshots from a distance. If this guy is a trained psychologist, then he knows, or should know, that the test results and rankings he cites can not be taken at face value. If he does know this, then he is teetering on the edge of intellectual dishonesty.
The Slate article, with its sweeping generalizations and grandiose claims, contains enough holes to drive a fleet of school buses through. For instance, he doesn’t consider that the rate of completion for students who start college may not be dependent on adequacy of preparation alone. Other factors are always at play, but you wouldn’t know it from reading the piece. And a psychology professor who has to rely on a journalist (Amanda Ripley, whose assumptions, methodology, and general line of reasoning are debatable) to nail down his thesis is actually undercutting that thesis.
One claim that does ring true is the general impression that high school can be boring. (He left out the fact that it can be overly stressful, though–he apparently wants to increase student stress.) But if he thinks the Common Core Standards and the tests that go with them will improve student engagement, well, he should check back with the kids when they’re trying to explain the functions of gerunds, participles, and infinitives (in general and in particular sentences–oh, wait, that’s a middle school “standard,” never mind). In addition to the irrelevant components of the Common Core ELA standards, still more of them are imprecise and poorly written and based on questionable notions of how literature works and how students can appreciate it and learn from it.
I don’t fault Professor Steinberg for unashamedly promoting his books, but he shouldn’t do so at the expense of teachers who are in the trenches every day trying to make a difference. Not to mention the poor students who will suffer under the purportedly more “rigorous” Common Core regime.
Couldn’t help looking up the offending pages:
http://books.google.com/books?id=IfPSDE24aScC&pg=PA94&dq=%22they+might+be+smarter%22+happier+%22Beyond+the+Classroom%22+steinberg#v=onepage&q=%22they%20might%20be%20smarter%22%20happier%20%22Beyond%20the%20Classroom%22%20steinberg&f=false
Nice to have some data behind “stereotypes” like these:
“Instead of sticking with one outstanding tribe—the Chinese—Chua and Rubenfeld add seven more: Jews, Lebanese, Indians, Iranians, Nigerians, Cuban exiles, and Mormons. The authors (Chua is Chinese, and Rubenfeld is Jewish) say these eight groups are more financially and academically successful than others in the U.S. because they possess “the triple package” of traits—superiority, insecurity, and good impulse control.”
One wonders how Ogbu’s legacy will be fulfilled…
Eric,
Thanks for finding that particular page. Wow. I hadn’t seen it for so long …..the mention of my students is so brief but it became the equivalent of like a giant pebble in my shoe, so to speak. My reaction back then was that it seemed like such an oversimplification of what my students had written…and discussed. It wasn’t just the happier vs. smarter idea. And, these students were definitely not tenth graders. I was using the article in a ninth grade global studies course, where I started introducing Japanese culture and history.
The criticism still stings after all these years….and like I mentioned in another post, it sort of came out of the clear blue since we’d had this very amiable and supportive exchange of letters. Larry’s opinion really mattered to me ……I’d really been interested in what he had originally written. And, to be fair, Larry might have even written to me that he was sorry, at some point. (?)
Maybe he kept some of this stuff? Though, it sounds like to him it really wasn’t a big deal from the start.
I have this whole giant bank of file cabinets I’ve accumulated in my classroom where I keep tons of papers…..old lessons, students’ work. People joke about it. Talk about relics of the 20th century. But my classroom was moved two years ago and I had to throw some of this stuff over the side.
I ended up with two empty file cabinets and already all this Core crap has filled up the better part of one of them…..in just a year and a half! SLOs, APPR, blah, blah, blah….. hardly anyone truly knows what we’re really meant to do but we keep generating these piles of paper to turn in… I feel bad for the principals who have to parse this gibberish coming out of Albany.
That’s the irony…..this Core has generated such of tsunami of paper while at the same time we’re living in this increasingly paperless world. People printing out these idiotic “modules” …… etc etc….. Schools right now just aren’t ready and can’t afford the computer capacity to make all Core stuff happen…..
All in all, I guess I’m really interested in how 20+ years have changed both Dr. Steinberg and myself….of not.
And, is the sort of thing that happened back then between us MORE or LESS likely to happen today?
Everything moves so quickly now. I have to wonder if I’m even MORE likely to make the sort of mistakes I did back 20 years ago?
That’s why I move so slowly. And, our kids just seem to moving faster and faster every day.
Thanks so much.
-John O.
We do have high dropout rates. We do graduate a lot of kids who aren’t prepared for college. And we graduate a lot of kids who aren’t going to college but have no idea about what else they might do either–kids who are basically lost, ones whom we’ve failed if our business is to give them a way to realize their potential. And how many of our graduates are going to be intrinsically motivated, independent learners? Not enough of them.
Anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling himself or herself. If we sound like we’re arguing that there are not problems (almost no one is crazy enough to think that), then we give the walnut-hearted, dim-dimwitted ed deformers, with their wacked, backward vision for the future of our schools, the excuse that they need to dismiss us.
No, U.S. schools are not “failures.” When you correct for the SES levels of kids taking the international exams, our kids fare very, very well indeed. However, we DO have problems. A lot of those are related to truly savage inequities in our communities and schools, to poverty. But poverty isn’t the only problem we have. There are other, real problems to be addressed. Of course, it’s crazy to think that we can address these via these top-down mandates. We need to be crowd-sourcing the creative genius to be found in our varied community of brilliant practicing teachers, researchers, scholars, and curriculum designers and encouraging competitive, varying curricula, pedagogical approaches, and learning progressions, not standardization, not the Walmartizing of all these.
The question is, how do we address the real issues that we do face? How do we create “better education for all,” recognizing that we are not doing that now, not for ALL, not by a long shot?
I don’t think we do that by issuing a set of amateurish, hackneyed, backward ELA standards and turning our schools into institutions for doing test prep for high-stakes standardized tests based on those. And I don’t think we do that by teaching to math standards that follow with only minor tweaking pretty much the same learning progression that we’ve had a consensus on for decades (a consensus reflected in the remarkably similar state math standards that preceded the CC$$ and in the NCTM standards on which ALL those state standards were based). And we don’t do that by killing public education and turning teachers into scripted robots. And we don’t do that by destroying the autonomy of teachers. And we don’t do that by stomping around and screaming a lot and firing people in front of TV cameras. That kind of crap isn’t going to change anything. In fact, it’s going to make things a LOT worse.
CC$$ + PARCC or SBAC is just Son of NCLB; NCLB Fright Night II: The Nightmare Is Nationalized. The reasons why those standards-and-summative-testing approaches won’t bring about significant changes are complex and can’t be dealt with in soundbites. CC$$ is not going to bring about the innovation that we need. Quite the contrary. It ossifies. It’s a recipe for mediocrity. But we need to be putting forward solutions, not pretending that there are no problems when there are.
We are all understandably sick to death of the deformer technique of pretending that there has been some massive failure of our schools in order to push a backward agenda that we know is going to harm kids and result in a less democratic, less free, less educated citizenry. I have lampooned the deformer “sky is falling” line at every opportunity. But where we really need to be attacking education deform is on the level of its disastrous consequences for curricula and pedagogy and the well-being and motivation of kids and for its enormous costs, including the opportunity costs of not dealing with the very real problems that our students face.
cx: the CC$$ are, not is, of course
Brilliant!
“pretending that there are no problems when there are.”
I really haven’t noticed a lot of pretending there are no problems in education on the teachers end. In fact, enter any staff room and you will hear a lifetimes worth.
🙂
If you hang around you will also hear a great many solutions.
They just are not the solutions that will make some publisher or edufraud or charter chain operator or whoever rich.
You are spot on, here, Ang, as usual.
“We are all understandably sick to death of the deformer technique of pretending that there has been some massive failure of our schools in order to push a backward agenda that we know is going to harm kids and result in a less democratic, less free, less educated citizenry. ”
Yes indeed! Especially if the Public Education “Chain of Argument”, linking mandatory
“Public Education” to Greater Freedom or more influence of the majority of people, on
social policy or political decisions on their behalf (DEMOCRACY) was the INTENT
of Public Education.
If there’s a chain of argument, every link in the chain must work (including the premise) — not just most of them. (Baloney Detection)
.
quote: “”The object of my criticism is our schools, not our kids. Nowhere did I say that American teenagers are lazy. What I said is that they aren’t being challenged. ”
This argument is often followed up by “you teachers at the elementary level use too many manipulatives for math”…. or “you teachers have spent too much time on self esteem” it is usually an opening line to attack “us” (meaning the teachers ) if the attack on “all the failing schools” doesn’t get through….
You are not challenging the students? I think that is “ivory tower” talk….