If you are a parent of public school children; if you care about your local public schools; if you are a teacher or administrator or school board member, you should think twice before shopping at Walmart.
The Walton Family Foundation spends nearly $200 million every year to undermine public education. It gives to groups that open charters and promote vouchers. It throws a few thou to the Bentonville Public Schools, but the big money is available only to those who want to bust unions and privatize public education.
Every member of the Walton family is a billionaire. Individual members donate generously to the campaigns of privatizers who run for state and local school boards.
Let them enjoy the fruits of the patriarch’s business genius.
But I suggest that you not give your hard-earned dollars to those who would destroy your local public schools and remove from working people any collective voice in their working conditions.
Diane Ravitch's blog 
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Diane Ravitch’s blog wrote:
> a:hover { color: red; } a { text-decoration: none; color: #0088cc; } a.primaryactionlink:link, a.primaryactionlink:visited { background-color: #2585B2; color: #fff; } a.primaryactionlink:hover, a.primaryactionlink:active { background-color: #11729E !important; color: #fff !important; } /* @media only screen and (max-device-width: 480px) { .post { min-width: 700px !important; } } */ WordPress.com dianeravitch posted: “If you are a parent of public school children; if you care about your local public schools; if you are a teacher or administrator or school board member, you should think twice before shopping at Walmart. The Walton Family Foundation spends nearly $20”
And don’t forget how Walmart exploits public welfare, especially supplemental nutrition programs, to cut their wages and benefits even lower. Same for McDonalds.
I would not be caught dead in that store even before reading this post. This post confirms how dirty baggy the Walmart people continue to behave. They just sell GMO’s anyway that are killing people in this country every day. Wonderful people that they are!!!
for your information. intersting!!!!!!!
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The manner in which so many people find themselves dependent upon “lower prices” for things that they don’t really “need” fuels the success of Walmart even though it is simultaneously stick those same people in the back…er purse.
How will they ever be convinced of the negative impact that Walmart really has on society?
As I recall, big box stores and their cheap foreign goods were the silver lining that our fearless leaders touted would keep the middle class afloat as they jumped with both feet into the global abyss…
I’m thinking a middle/upper-middle boycott of Walmart won’t do much to change Waltons’ edeforming ways. They are a self-sustaining proposition which ranks highest among co’s whose employees qualify for medicaid, & where studies exist same re: food stamps (which employees turn around & use at Walmart).
How about some legislation? Walmart’s CEO (after last yr’s 14% raise) makes 796x the ave Walmart salary. (Comparisons: Target CEO 645x; retail is always higher than others– overall ave CEO: ave worker salary is 273:1; before Reagan the overall # was 30:1 [trickle-up economics])… Or how about >gasp< campaign finance legislation just for starters?
I agree with you. I felt trickle down was a joke for anyone but those on top and it has been shown to be true. The trickle went into the pockets of those with no conscience and it kept on flooding their pockets. Then they got the Citizens United ruling to give them voting rights. And here we are. I talked to Reagan Fiscal Conservatives over the holidays who still think that was a good idea…even if they work a minimum wage thankless job. Why?
These marketing geniuses have gilded their paths from all directions. They have the muddle class right where they want them…dependent…and beholden. I cringe.
They have mastered Stockholm’s Syndrome on a large scale. Abuse is now appreciated by many.
And they want to do this to public education.
Walmart also denies its employeesa living wage and the health care benefits they deserve. This Thanksgiving, employees went to supervisors lamenting the fact that they could not afford turkey. They were told they could have a food drive for each other in a response that would make Marie Antionette blush. Every single day the Waltin family earns an average of $8 million dollars in profits. They can easily afford to to pay their people better. The Walmart family is behind Ben Austin and Parent Trigger, an ugly scam that tears apart communities and pretends to offer poor parents a choice when it is actually depriving them of that. . The Walton family pays for TFA that come for laid of teachers’s jobs. 700 interns were sent to LA despite the 1700 RiFs floundering without work and there are many more in sub spots. Those subs are applying for food stamps just like MOST Walmart employees, who are given classes on how to qualify for public assistance . So there is a high cost for low prices as the public is forced to pick the slack of the richest low life in America. Do not shop there and spread the word about the Waktons, who are an evil affront to the people and Democracy.
I have an aunt who lost her business and home due to her husband’s untimely death. She took a job at Walmart out of desperation while she stayed with us to get back on her feet. I could not believe how much of her paycheck she gave back to them because she couldn’t resist the employee discount she got, like 30%, if that. After each shift, she gave a nice chunk back to them by picking up necessities and “good deals”. I am sure that is common with their employees
Ughhhh.. and Walmart is opening quite a few new stores in DC. They got the “go ahead” after nearly closing down the negotiations for the DC store openings if they had to provide employees with a living wage as was suggested by DC Council members. DC gov’t caved in and so Walmart will not be required to provide living wages. Walmart also provides “free” breakfasts to many title one public schools in Prince Georges County Maryland. I am sure they do this nation-wide. Michelle Obama sang their praises for offering the free and supposedly healthy foods. The foods look like over processed junk food (egg tacos microwaved in plastic or pies with an apple filling etc… ) and they “make them healthier” by lowering the sugar content ever-so-slightly. By the time you add up the sugar content in the various items served for breakfast, it is a lot of sugar. But hey, for Walmart it was worth offering the free breakfast because they got great PR straight from the top. I doubt Michelle Obama would serve this food to her own children anytime soon. Is this “food” only food for children who are poor???? Sidwell Friends would not dare serve it. So, Walmart is no shining star in my opinion… And it annoys me how they have nearly round the clock store openings around holiday time… definitely kills the spirit on which these holidays were founded!
BIC costs teachers and students in LA 12 days of instruction.
LA has had free breakfast for more than a decade. It is not the best nutrition in the world but it is better than the sugar heavy crap Walmart “donates.” students can have fruit, juice, eggs, low sugar coffee cake, and breads. Most poor students are not starving. In fact, there is an obesity problem for poor people who cannot afford fresh whole foods. However, there are food stamp programs in the state, many food banks in almost every part of the county and as a rule, schools offer plenty and waste too much in these high poverty areas. Deasy portrayed teachers as lazy and compassionaless for complaining about the daily duties which have them serving breakfast of expired carbs and milk to children, who make a mess, throw a lot of the food away and have an extra hard time settling in to their studies as teacher cleans up the mess. There are few, if any , custodians left and teachers are already picking up their slack by scrubbing filthy floors, wiping down desks and sweeping up messes in the halls. I believe this BIC program is designed to degrade them.
Folks are free to choose where they spend their money. Nobody forces anybody to buy at Walmart. Nobody forces anybody to work at Walmart or McDonalds. The pretentiousness, condescension and arrogance of those charging that others buy things they don’t really need mind numbing.
Nice scope shift.
Dr. Diane Isn’t “forcing” anyone to shop anywhere. She’s suggesting that you don’t at Walmart, and provides evidence to support her reason. The headline is an amplification of the same thing – a suggestion.
The pretentiousness, condescension, and arrogance of these reactionary “but my freedoms” posts and their owner’s basic inability to read is mind numbing.
Joe:
You have to be careful about “snarks”.
I haven’t changed scope at all. Diane is free to call for any boycott she chooses. My opening sentence reads, ” Folks are free to choose where they spend their money.”.
My comment was specifically directed at deb’s comment about people buying things they do not need. Do you also subscribe to the theory that you know what people need and don’t need better than they do?
Bernie,
“My comment was specifically directed at deb’s. . . ”
Just be a bit more careful on the placement. Where it is now it seems to be a response to Diane’s post instead of to deb, but it’s good you clarified that. (and, it seems, we’ve all ended up having our posts not go where we thought they were going at one point or another).
And I basically agree with what you have said in your last sentence-I’ve a tendency myself to do what deb did. I’m not sure it is out of arrogance or condescension but perhaps more of a not totally thought through thought!.
Duane: I thought it through. I have maintained that this manipulation is taking place for many years. I don’t need Bernie’s commentary. It is not as if I think people don’t need food or clothing. But this holiday madness is completely about “want”.
People who behave like a herd of wildebeasts in order to buy a toaster for $10 have issues. People get trampled and even die. This is not civilized. Is being civilized presumptuous?
deb,
Something I’ve wondered through the years is how can people be so manipulated into believing and doing things that seem completely irrational to me (hence my later comment about “failing” public schools). Whether it’s black friday, or supporting and participating in illegal wars of aggression, etc. . ., I just don’t understand (and I’m not equating those two items except in the sense that for whatever reasons people jump on the bandwagon without what appears to be ample justification in my mind). What is it about humans as a social being (beast?) that enables some to manipulate (all the better if it isn’t coercive) others to do what they want? I’m sure many a better thinker than me has thought/researched this through and through. I’ve just never seen any synopsis of it.
Duane:
It has been well researched. Irving Janis summarized the research and his own research in GroupThink. We all can be guilty of it, even me and deb.
Duane: I think there are con artists everywhere one looks. I was talking with family over the holidays about the fact that so many people use crystal method. I just asked “why?” What a conversation. None of them use/used it or drugs…no one defended it. But the basic consensus is that many people do not think about consequences beyond the immediate: fitting in, getting high, instant gratification, feeling invincible, etc.
I don’t feel it is condescending or presumptuous to wonder why someone would risk the zombie-like results (or death) from using method. What is the attraction?
The same follows for risking getting trampled to buy a toaster oven or a sweater.
We have drifted far, far beyond basic needs…food clothing and shelter. We think we need so much more.
We all need to think.
But now that education has gotten full-force into marketing, trickery, manipulation that is the hallmark if privatizing, we have fallen to a new low.
Is it the tell a big enough lie often enough that it becomes truth syndrome?
Bernie. I caught your reference. You took my comment to a place it was never going. I was presuming to know personally whatvso and so needs. I was making a comment upon our material us to society. Our bargain-hunting lemmings are simply pawns for marketing “geniuses”. We used to call these people “snake oil salesmen” and now we reward them for their tricks of the trade. We are foolish.
But I think as adults on someone else’s blog we shouldn’t be making assumptions about what others mean when they post, unless they direct something at you personally.
Talk about presumptuous!
This phone!!! I didn’t realize it had changed “meth” to method. I do not like autocorrect.
Deb: Your comment about people getting trampled hits home to me because we had a trampling on Thursday at our local Walmart. Thankfully the woman was uninjured, but the whole thing is disgusting.
An 11 year old kid in Ohio got trampled. Survived. Absurd.
Well, see, now, that’s part of the problem, bernie. Once Wal-Mart moves in and drives most of the smaller stores out of business, people aren’t really free to spend their money where they want, are they?
Correct, Dienne!
Dienne:
You over state your case. We had a retail store for 25 years. There was a Walmart close by and a K Mart even closer. We served different customer bases and were essentially unaffected. Our town has plenty of retail stores – probably too many. But that is the choice of the merchants.
Look, my issue is folks criticizing Walmart customers as if the critics know more than the customers do about the customers’ needs. As I said, it is silly, pretentious and arrogant. If you want to make a statement or wave a sign or boycott Walmart go at it.
Each year, I ring the Salvation Army bell at KMart (Walmart is in the next town) over a couple of weekends and their customers are exceedingly generous as are Walmart customers – according to our SA Major.
People buy tons of stuff because marketers make them think they need it. Sure they want it. Need is different. No one needs to buy multiple items that fall apart when they get them home. No one needs to own the newest version of stuff just to be one up one their neighbor. No one needs to camp out in the snow to buy a game or a TV. It isn’t pretentious to view this marketing game played in the US as manipulative. Why is observing the marketing for what it is a pretentious affect? It is just that there is a serious disease of “want” that drives many people to behave without engaging their brains. Look at what happened to Penney’s marketing faux pas…when they used honest flat pricing, sales plummeted. But when they went back to fake sales, people started returning. Good grief. People would rather get a $10 valued item for a markdown of $5 off of $15 than to just pay the $10 for it off the rack. How silly.
“. . . marketers make them think they need it.”
I’m not sure that “make” is the right word there. “Convince” would probably be a better word.
Pulling a TE here (just funnin ya TE) but when my daughter earned her degree people asked me what it was in. I told them “lying”. Yep, she got a marketing degree!
Maybe the public schools aren’t doing their jobs if marketers can “make” (or even convince) so many people buy “stuff they don’t need.”
And my daughter’s reply, said in a loving daughter’s way, “Daaaad, dooon’t say thaaaat”, all the while knowing that there was a kernel of truth in what I said-she did actually have to take a business ethics course as part of her program at St. Louis University (a Jesuit university).
deb:
It is pretentious and condescending to believe that others succumb to that which you believe yourself immune. Do people buy stuff they don’t need? Yes, don’t we all? I have a bunch of books I haven’t read. Should I blame the reviewers (i.e., marketers) for my buying the books? Do you think that most folks are not aware of what marketers do? Besides what exactly are you going to do about it? Stop people shopping at Walmart? Ban Black Friday sales? Re-introduce the Blue Laws? While you are at, how about bringing back Prohibition?
Did I once say I was never fooled or manipulated? No. I am a person, too. I simply refuse to play their game any longer. I simply resent you making personal attacks. Leave people’s names out of your comments. I think you are being presumptuous to say that I have intentions that I don’t have.
I am critical of the marketing. My son has a degree in business, marketing, and urban planning and he has no respect for the game they play. So many lies. So many lies. He will never be a part of marketing schemes. He found the degree enlightening.
Think whatever you will but leave personal opinions to yourself.
And yes Duaneno one “makes” people buy into the manipulation … But their goal is to bait human nature to think they need something constantly. That’s why they are paid as they are. I find it deceiving. Sorry if that is condescending. I don’t like being bombarded with suggestions as to how to blow money.
I hate the way my local news turns into on long commercial for the retailers this time of year…..that only adds more to people believing they must go out and shop or they won’t be normal like the people the news is showing every hour, not to mention the commercials in between their corporate stories
Bernie,
The point of advertising is to encourage people to but things they may not need and create want for things not previously wanted.
Yes we need clothes, but how many?
Of course people are free to do as they please with their own money, but businesses actively encourage them to over buy and over spend. It is called advertising.
The big agencies employ psychologists to figure out how to create a need for products. Retail stores use psychology to get folks to spend more. ( I have family in these businesses).
These practices are VERY successful.
Retailers pay big bucks for it.
It is all perfectly legal and just fine.
But let’s not pretend it doesn’t happen or pretend it doesn’t work.
Ang:
I am not pretending it doesn’t happen. Any thoughtful merchant has to think about these things. Are all merchants, therefore, liars and cheats and manipulators?
The issue is who gets to define what is a need and what is a want. I say let the individuals make their own choices – caveat emptor. If a marketer or advertiser lies, lets simply make sure that there are avenues for redress. The mayhem in some locations on Black Friday will be resolved since the stores assume some liability.
Lest we ignore Diane’s original post entirely – she is free to call for a boycott. I wouldn’t dream of limiting her ability to make such a call even though I will continue to shop there to buy stuff that some really super smart marketer with zero integrity and a penchant for prevarication has persuaded me to buy, even though I do not need it.
Bernie,
Straw man city in several of your comments on this thread.
All merchants Lie and cheat?
Bring back prohibition?
Ban Black Friday ?
Don’t see any of that being suggested.
However, manipulation, you bet. They spend BIG BUCKS on it.
It works.
Even on you.
However, the young are more vulnerable as they are the target for most advertising.
The key is education.
However many teachers are busy getting kids college and career ready. Those endless pre tests, post tests and benchmarks don’t leave much time for critical thinking lessons.
Ang: correct!
Why “straw man city”? I do not believe I am engaging in wild generalizations. The issue I reacted to was deb’s presumption that Walmart somehow persuades people to buy what they do not need. It is true that sometimes we buy things that we do not need. But so what? deb’s argument still rests on the assumption that she can distinguish what people need from what they want and whether it is worth the hassle to potentially save money by joining crowds of people on Black Friday. That is the mind set that drove the Blue Laws and Prohibition. So my question to you remains the same: Do you believe that you can distinguish what somebody needs from what they want?
You know, Bernie, you need to just stop with the b.s. I didn’t say that and you go on and on. Are you trying to prove something? Give it up. You are misguided and I find you irritating.
deb:
So are you saying that, in fact, you cannot distinguish between what people “need” and what they “want”?
Your original statement was:
“The manner in which so many people find themselves dependent upon “lower prices” for things that they don’t really “need” fuels the success of Walmart even though it is simultaneously stick those same people in the back…er purse.
How will they ever be convinced of the negative impact that Walmart really has on society?” Emphasis added
Perhaps others can offer an alternative interpretation to your expression “they don’t really “need”.”
Read my other subsequent posts. I don’t care to try to convince you further. It is a waste of my time.
Oh Deb, I hear you. I have always found Bernie irritating. As if all of us have to prove our worth to him. He is an authority on all issues even professions he’s never mastered himself, kind of like the Rheeject.
…yet he accuses others of being condescending … I am so DONE.
Don’t even bother. He’s slumming by even conversing with lowly teachers.
Linda:
That is just silly. My wife was a HS teacher and is now a college teacher.
Yes Bernie we know all about your wife and how she once taught foreign language in a high school which magically made you an expert on all things related to teaching and learning. I live with my husband too and he doesn’t bloviate about children, lesson plans, unions, testing, curriculum etc as though he is a self appointed expert just because we sleep in the same bed. Get over yourself already.
Ouch, Linda!
Linda: your 6:15 PM comment has the effect of taking a blo[w]viating fish swimming in the murky waters of RheeWorld and bringing it up onto the land of Planet Reality.
There it lies, gasping for breath and expiring because it is out of its element.
I’m with Robert Rendo on this: “Ouch!”
Señor Swacker: ok segue back into the thread on animals?
Hago changuitos/Me cruzo los dedos por suerte/I am crossing my fingers for luck…
😎
Krazy TA,
I fear you misinterpreted my “Ouch!” comment.
Yes, it was a swift verbal slam in the literary head the ever illustrious Linda had to offer, and a much deserved one given to its intended audience.
I may not enjoy the effect a right hook has in boxing, but I appreciate the power, acumen, and precision of he/she who delivers it . . . .
In a few smaller towns that is not so. Walmart has a terrible impact on small business. In a smaller rural town Walmart can be the only place available within a reasonable distance, in No CA there is a small county called Del Norte just outside Oregon. Walmart is all they really have to choose from . I personally prefer mail order to that but for some folks, especially elders the Walmart is where they can get it all. I agree we choose and believe the point of the post is to urge us to choose someplace else.
Personally, I have been boycotting WalMart forever. Unfortunately and ironically, my NY State Teacher’s Pension includes it in their portfolio of investments as of the last time they published this information for union members. We should end the practice of supporting our detractors.
I agree with you. Our pensions should reflect our values. Sometimes I believe our union leaders think they are also our boss like a second Principal. They work for us and not the other way around. Also, the individuals above need to just ignore any individual who tries to irritate them and then focus on making their points. When they respond to the endless questioning, then they are reinforcing this behavior and it distracts from their own message and the intended audience. By ignoring the individual, you are using the same strategy the reformers are using. This strategy works because your message is all that matters and all else is a form of distraction from your message. If you continue with your message and ignore all else then it is much more likely that others will understand your point on view since you are not spending time off the point responding to some tangential question possibly leading you off your intended point.
Mr. Twain 5 , I think you nailed it!
I have never walked into a Walmart. A few years ago my husband’s niece and great nephew worked there for the holiday season and the stories they had re how the employees are treated, convinced me never to shop there.
Not to mention they pay so little that their employees are eligible for Medical, which means we’re supplementing their billions.
In my neck of the woods, Walmart is all we have after they forced smaller businesses out years ago. I try to not shop there, but sometimes I just have to, and I don’t like doing it.
Me too. Wal-Mart is the only store in town except Big Lots, Dollar General, Family Dollar and Dollar Tree. I shop there only 3 or 4 times a year on a must have basis. It turns my stomach but the alternative is driving 45 to 60 minutes for greater variety (meaning other large chains.) Ironically it is usually for something for school.
Well and just because it isn’t Walmart does not mean it is pro public school. In NC Art Pope (who is pro privatization and puts his money where his mouth is) owns other discount stores like Roses. So you have to do your research and not assume.
I did a solo protest at my local Walmart yesterday and got the full-court press from a gang of bullying, lying managers. I started walking back and forth in front of the store with my “Always Low Wages” handmade sign. I was quickly accosted by a Walmart manager who said I couldn’t walk. I said, “That’s strange: last year when I was here the managers told us we had to walk. It sounds like you’re just making this up.” Nevertheless I moved over to a spot about six yards from the door and stood. Immediately another manager told me I was in the way and couldn’t stand there. But this was pretty much the only place one could stand as they had barricaded off most of the sidewalks. I could see the game they were playing. I wasn’t going to let them bully me, so I started walking again. Now three other managers started swarming around me –it was clear that they were very perturbed by my presence. One of them warned me that I had better stop walking. I ignored him. Then one of them told me I was violating the Americans with Disabilities Act because I was walking on the bumpy rubberized yellow strip between the sidewalk and the blacktop –this was completely unavoidable as they had barricaded off the sidewalk. So I went back to standing where I had been before. Then they concocted the scheme to barricade off the spot I where I was standing saying it was a “safety” and “crowd control” issue. This was pure nonsense. There were no crowds. As they hauled metal barricades over, I said I was willing to stand behind the barricades; they said I couldn’t. I refused to move, so they called the police. Two officers approached me. I told them about the shenanigans the managers had been pulling. The officer still seemed to want me to move. I turned to one of the managers, pointed to a spot on the yellow strip and made him promise that he wouldn’t tell me to move from that. He did. I moved to the spot on the yellow strip. The police left and from that point on, the managers left me alone. Having just felt the direct onslaught of the managers’ creepily orchestrated protest-busting techniques I felt more sympathy for Walmart workers than ever. I hoped I was saying through my sign and my defiance what the workers cannot say or do for certain knowledge of being summarily fired. Did I have an impact? Almost every one of the hundreds of shoppers read my sign. A young Hispanic worker leaving the store gave me a furtive “Thank you”. That alone made my protest worth it.
Most people shouldn’t have a shopping choice. Shop only at the public shopping system and stop anyone who buys a non government produced product. America should only produce public high school dropped out educational drones who are incapable of thinking outside their drone box.
Me, I’m not a fan of big brother speak and will be picking up a $4 prescription today at my very fine local walmart where I spend most of my retail dollars. I have a daugher and daughter-in-law working there and no one is holding a gun to their heads forcing their hands.
Government, government regulation, and government forced hand holding is killing America.
Price Weston, fighting to regain natural personal freedoms and rights on every single battle front.
Is there a more unfree situation in American than that of a Walmart employee? Do you think if the Waltons had their way anybody would be free to protest Walmart? Thank God evil government is still (barely) independent and strong enough to protect my freedom from thuggish plutocrats. In your libertarian utopia, plutocrats would crush you like a little worm if you dared say “boo” to them.
Ponderosa:
Hold on a second, who is bringing us “Race to the Top”? NSA monitoring of emails and phone calls? IRS obstructing of some entities but not others?
Anybody can protest Wal-Mart. Diane is doing it here. You can write to the Foundation and make your case. You just can’t block the entrance or hassle customers or employees.
When plutocrats are free, the rest of us are unfree. See Guatemala and other oligarchies.
Ponderosa:
Fortunately, we live in the US not Guatemala. I have never felt exploited or intimidated by the Waltons, Bill Gates, Warren Buffet or any other plutocrat – and its not my false consciousness speaking.
Bernie,
You focus on yourself only as usual. Because you haven’t felt exploited no one else has? Your egotistical, myopic views are immature and constantly annoying.
Linda:
I never said nor do I think that people are not exploited. They are. Ponderosa wrote: “When plutocrats are free, the rest of us are unfree.” This statement is grandiose and inaccurate. Do you feel unfree? If so, who or what is making you feel unfree. What % of Americans do you think are going to say they feel unfree because of the wealth of Bill Gates, the Waltons, George Soros, Peter Lewis? Is it all plutocrats or just some?
In short, I object to generalizations that are silly hyperbolic political rhetoric that has no basis in reality. You object to the positions taken by the Wal-Mart Foundation, Fine. Diane thinks that it is worth joining the push to boycott Wal-Mart. Fine. You object to Wal-Mart’s position on Unions. Fine. There is a basis for these discussions. There is no basis for arguing that the existence of very rich people means that the rest of us are unfree.
Boy Linda.
You are so mean to Mr. Bernie1815.
And so accurate about him as well.
I’m loving the combination. Truth and power rolled into one person . . . . .
But Bernie, don’t change. You, TE, and most of the time Harlan provide some much needed challenges and amusement on this blog.
Advocacy is no fun without a motley crew of black sheep . . . .
Bernie, bit by bit, plutocrats are usurping power. Their money buys elections and laws that benefit them, not us. With his money, Gates is essentially dictating the fate of education. Thus vast wealth subverts democracy which is a system in which ordinary people are the Big Boss. Unless that vast wealth is somehow curtailed (I’m for much higher marginal tax rates and monopoly-busting), I don’t see how real democracy can survive. We are on the path to becoming Guatemala or Russia, where the power of the state has been seized by the plutocrats.
Bernie, your tax dollars are used to pay for the Medicaid and other government services walmart employees need because walmart doesn’t pay a living wage. That doesn’t make you feel oppressed? I feel oppressed by businesses that strive to worsen America through poor wages, poor working conditions, and the murder of our public schools.
Ironic how libertarians and conservatives lambast obamacare and the thought of single-payer, but don’t get this simple fact: Walmart’s low prices are thanks to us, the taxpayers!
Accurately put, Ponderosa.
I agree I hate shopping there and try not to, just based on the way they treat their employees. When I used to go there years ago, before I knew better, it was when they first opened a new store in our area. Guess what? At that time employees were everywhere, most checkouts full. Now you go in, the store is filthy, only 2 registers are open and the employees do not look thrilled, no wonder why.
Ever shop in any big box store after a sale? Patrons drop or throw stuff onto the floor. I have seen clothes crammed onto shelves of toys, shoes strewn all over the aisles, fresh food on a shelf of candles, frozen products thawing in the cosmetics shelves, nail polish broken on the floor, etc. In addition to having terrible pay, no respect from employers, they have to clean up after customers who behave like pigs.
I disagree with the whole premise of boycotting Walmart.
What a foolish and thoroughly un-American sentiment.
On the contrary, I think EVERYONE and their aunt Tillie ought to shop until they drop at Walmart, take home the goods, comsume as much of the goods as possible, and then return all the goods for a full refund, due to customer dissatisfaction. Their policy perfectly allows for it.
By using the corporate return policy left and right, one will have expended much of Walmarts resources while not financing the Walmart corporation and family.
What a lovely way to go on a spree and wax political at the same time.
Pleasant shopping to all, and to all, many happy returns . . . . . Why call it “Black Friday” when one can see a rainbow of colorful possibilities . . . . .
Why hold onto your anger when you can hold onto your receipts . . . . .
Robert:
And how exactly do such actions give you any moral superiority in any discussion about how the Walmart Foundation chooses to support programs aimed at improving US Education? I have no real issue with a call to boycott. Your ideas simply raise costs for everyone and create unnecessary work for employees. They will accomplish nothing except build sympathy for Walmart..
How exactly do they improve education? Please be specific Bernie. Can’t wait to hear all about it.
Bernie,
I am reading exactly what you wrote, but I am hearing “Blah-blah-blah-blah-blah!”
Please be more specific.
Bernie,
I have to say that you made my day. . . .maybe even my thanksgiving break by saying that sympathy will be generated for Walmart.
Oh yes, I can see thousands of people in parks and stadiums with candlelight vigils for the drained Walmart. We 98 percenters will all be out there ready to roll out the red carpet of sympathy for Walmart and the Walton family.
I am giggling all the way. For someone so serious, you generate a lot of fine comedy and satire. In fact, potentially you are this blog’s very own Moliere. Be careful. You have plenty of competition from TE.
Now, Bernie.
Don’t take it the wrong way.
I’m not laughing at you.
I’m just among the thousands of readers of this blog who are laughing together without you . . . . .
LOL….you crack me up. He must be worshipped elsewhere.
Robert:
I am glad I could give you something to smile about.
You obviously have never been in a long line returning something at Wal-Mart. Good luck telling those folks you are just messing with Wal-Mart.
But my original point remains: What moral superiority does your position give you?
Linda, we will join the church of Bernie1815. . . . . I am recalling a scene stealer with Sammy Davis from “Sweet Charity” . . .
Spread your wings and fly to Bernie . . . . . . . .
“Bernie” has two syllables just like “Daddy” . . . . Just substitute one for the other . . . I know I want to.
🙂
Bernie,
Blah-blah-blah-blah-blah.
If you have to ask about moral authority, then you’re beyond repair.
Now be a good boy and go hide behind your wife’s laurels . . . .
Robert:
Did you or did you not advocate a strategy of disruption rather than boycott? Disruption that, if successful, you anticipate will make work for Wal-Mart employees and raises prices for all.
You write: If you have to ask about moral authority, then you’re beyond repair. I don’t see your logic. .
I see no reason to hide. You, Ponderosa and deb wrote things that I see as problematic.
None of you have defended your original statements and positions.
And why is it you believe anyone needs to defend anything to you? Get your own blog.
Linda: A+
Bernie1815: F- . . . . . .
Robert Rendo: I am afraid that letter grades are just so “twentieth century.”
Being in the cage busting achievement gap busting twenty first century, it’s gotta be numbers & stats. Didn’t you get the memo?
So remembering the immature, er, manure, er, immortal wisdom of Dr. Steve Perry [“America’s Most Trusted Educator”] that “Men lie and women lie but numbers don’t”—
There is a better than 98% satisfactory [thank, Mr. Bill Gates!] chance of certainty that Linda is in the 90th percentile on this and the gentleman in question is in the 13th.
Go figure…
😎
Robert Rendo: I am afraid that letter grades are just so “twentieth century.”
Being in the cage busting achievement gap busting twenty first century, it’s gotta be numbers & stats. Didn’t you get the memo?
So remembering the immature, er, manure, er, immortal wisdom of Dr. Steve Perry [“America’s Most Trusted Educator”] that “Men lie and women lie but numbers don’t”—
There is a better than 98% satisfactory [thank, Mr. Bill Gates!] chance of certainty that Linda is in the 90th percentile on this and the gentleman in question is in the 13th.
Go figure…
😎
Yes, Krazy TA.
Agreed. 🙂
On second thought, Krazy TA, I’m not heartless.
I’ll upgrade Bernard1815 to an F+ . . . . . It may leave room for hope.
To everyone: please excuse the double posting. The owner of this blog can delete the superfluous one if she likes.
Robert Rendo: if you change the grade upward, wouldn’t Frank Bruni accuse you of coddling? Wouldn’t Secretary of Education Arne Duncan publicly castigate you for not applying the kind of tough love he metes out to white suburban moms? Wouldn’t that just “piss off” [his words] Dr. Steve Perry and result in “head injuries” [his words]?
“Ouch!”
I let you localize the pain wherever you like.
Thank you for supporting a “better education for all.”
And a special note of appreciation to Linda. There isn’t an “edufraud” in these entire 50 United States of America that doesn’t loath you for putting a label on them in accordance with Truth In Advertising. I read all your comments.
😎
Exactly how does the foundation support improving education?
Mark:
I did not say that it did. The Wal-Mart Foundation policies and programs are in my opinion ill-considered when it comes to TFA, but their intent is to improve US Education. Please read my comments carefully. I try to be precise and accurate. Then check to see if the comments of Robert, Linda, deb and Ponderosa are actually responsive. Be careful though, one step out of line and you will be labeled “Sheeple” .
I wouldn’t expect you to be offended by the sheeple comment when you’re more of a Farmer Jones type, Bernie.
Many reasons in this thread of replies as to why I don’t “get involved” in it. Which just broke my own logic.
After all, with regard to Walmart and its meta-store policies about education:
Don’t get angry.
Get even.
Agree with all the criticisms of Walmart and want to add one that is extremely important but rarely mentioned.
Much of Walmart’s economic success is due to the way that it uses its purchasing power in negotiating price arrangements with its suppliers (international as well as domestic suppliers). Walmart routinely obtains arrangements with suppliers — either explicit or implicit — whereby the supplier agrees to charge Walmart a price that is X% or $X/item less than the price that the supplier is charging any of Walmart’s potential competitors. Walmart can obtain this kind of favorable arrangement because Walmart is such a large purchaser that no/few suppliers can risk losing Walmart’s business. Under traditional antitrust law, such arrangements are unlawful, particularly where the purchaser demanding the arrangement has significant market power (really the only time that suppliers would acquiesce in such arrangements). However, sometime around the 1980s, the US govt (the US Justice Department and the Federal Trade Commission specifically) quietly stopped enforcing much of antitrust law — partly in response to neocon economic thinking that assumed free markets would prevent most antitrust violations and partly in order to curry favor with the major US corporations who benefited from antitrust violations.
Given Walmart’s special arrangements with suppliers, Walmart is able to buy (and resell) many goods at a price lower than its competitors. This unfair advantage — not Walmart’s low labor costs — is the main reason that Walmart is able to drive all those small independents and even many relatively large chains out of business. Walmart does routinely violate the labor laws (regarding unionization, minimum wage, and overtime), but many retailers have equally low labor costs and some also violate the labor laws; Walmart’s big advantage over its retail competitors is its special arrangements with its suppliers that assures Walmart the ability to buy/sell cheaper than its retail competitors.
(And no, I’m not a union-side attorney — I’m a retired lawyer who represented management and govt, never unions or individuals, during my 30+ years in practice.)
This is true. I don’t shop at Walmart, knowing this. However, I do look for sales at times, when I need something. Knowing that Walmart shuts out others from competing because of their ability to get exclusive deals with suppliers buy volume purchasing and distribution, they are sticking it to every other business that can’t do the same or something similar.
I see changes that happened when we were told “trickle down” was a good idea and when deregulation came into play. This is like putting the fox in charge of the hen house. It does not bode well for the hens.
Why is this so surprising? Why, indeed? People scream all kinds of things about free-market, restoring moral values, fiscally conservative (and therefore responsible?) spending/budgets, and tort reform on top of their moral outrage against anything not white, male, monied, Judeo-Christian, and gun-toting. Then they wonder why the privatizers have scooped up public endeavors, including education. They were given a blank check after Citizens United came along and offered non-humans citizenship. Dollars equal influence. Influence equals votes. Votes equal loopholes. And the circle continues.
I am obviously no economist, but I know what I have seen, felt, experienced. And, we are being bought and sold by people pretending to be philanthropists. We have been very, very unwise and manipulated.
But, I am tired of losing my sanity over all of this. I can’t change anything. It all got me down by breaking my belief in truth, honestly, loyalty, hard work, an joy of teaching and learning. Even if you don’t get personally slapped down, you get worn down by the perpetual questioning of every single thing that you have known, implemented, believed, and counted upon.
I am tired. I am retired. My health has been ground down to shredded nerves.
God help everyone. This happens everywhere. I am not from a school that even had any horrific issues or students that were the neediest of the needy. And. They have torn all of to worn out, sad, disillusioned people with pensions eroding … all with a shrug.
Then since this is the case, let Walmart pass on the savings by raising the wages of their clerks to $17 an hour plus full health care coverage. That would seem fair.
“However, sometime around the 1980s, the US govt (the US Justice Department and the Federal Trade Commission specifically) quietly stopped enforcing much of antitrust law — partly in response to neocon economic thinking that assumed free markets would prevent most antitrust violations and partly in order to curry favor with the major US corporations who benefited from antitrust violations.”
That’s funny–A Nation at Risk came out in (what was it?) 1980. Coincidence? And then Ronald Reagan ushered in the beginning of the demise of American civilization for the working class with his union-busting treatment of the air traffic controllers. He garnered support from the American people with his back door set-up of the Iran hostage issue along with him taking credit for what the Pope did (when he and then pro-union Lech Walesa organized the Polish to stand up to the Soviets) leading to the fall of communism.
Reagan was a liar and a snake. Since the 80s, the working class has been slowly losing ground. Reagan and those who were and continue to be powerful/influential played a pivotal role.
I cannot tell you how many of my colleagues shop at both Wal-mart and Sam’s Club because they’re conveniently located directly across the road from our school despite the fact that: a) They fixed it so they have a lovely tax shelter due to a loophole in their operating classification and b) They put several local stores out of business. I haven’t shopped at Wal-mart for well over a decade. Refuse to. I won’t join Facebook either because of Zuckerberg’s interference with the Newark schools. Amazon is next on my list of boycotts in light of the company’s stance on unions in Germany.
We need to put our money where our mouths are and join together en masse in stopping these terrible companies from having the power to wield their misguided influence against our schools, our small businesses and the working people in our communities. We need to stop giving them our collective business, but somehow I doubt that will ever happen as long as we remain ignorant.
I’m with you 100%.
Isn’t today Small Business Saturday? Have you heard of the 3/50 initiative? Try to spend $50 at 3 small local businesses each month. It makes me feel good just trying, even if I don’t reach my goal.
Ugh, I was mistaken. The propaganda piece, A Nation at Risk, came out in 1983–THIRTY YEARS AGO–but still under the watch of that man.
Yes…hooray for the small businesses. They are owned and operated by our friends and neighbors. We need to support them not only as customers but as advocates for their rights to do business on a more even keel. I’m tired of big business moguls like the Waltons influencing lawmakers to enact policies to their advantage (ALEC, anyone?).
Labor Lawyer:
Interesting perspective – though it is the same charge that was leveled against Sears for years. Are you saying that in 5 years the current administration has not enforced existing anti-trust legislation? Does this anti-trust legislation extend to arrangements with overseas suppliers?
I check Wal-Mart’s HP ink cartridge prices and they are pretty much MSRP. Costco and Staples have much better deals. Wal-Mart beer prices in New Hampshire are much higher than the local grocery store as are most of their household items.
If firms are buying abroad and reselling to consumers in the US, then the US antitrust laws should apply to the firms’ arrangements with the overseas suppliers — at least, that’s what I learned in law school.
Re the Obama administration — do not think Obama has been better/worse than Clinton and only slightly better than Reagan/Bush I/Bush II re antitrust enforcement. Obama’s DOJ has approved airline mergers and I haven’t read anything about DOJ or FTC even investigating Walmart. My sense is that economic/legal/judicial thinking evolved starting around the late 1970s towards believing that markets were self-correcting and that govt efforts to police markets created more problems than they solved — Friedman’s replacement of Keynes as the guiding light on fiscal policy is one example of this evolution.
Re Walmart’s HP ink cartridges — it’s possible that HP refuses to give Walmart the favorable arrangement, at least regarding the HP ink cartridges. HP has significant market power itself + my own experience purchasing HP ink cartridges suggests that HP holds the line pretty firmly on the price (it’s hard to fine significant discounts, even on the internet) + HP probably sells the majority of those cartridges to other businesses or via the internet rather than through big box retail stores. Costco/Staples prices might be loss leaders.
LL:
Thanks. Was there in fact a case brought against Sears for its actions vis a vis vendors?
Bernie — Don’t know re Sears and (fortunately or unfortunately) I’m now retired so I do not have easy access to the internet legal research tools I would need to answer your question. I’d be very surprised if the feds went after Sears anytime after say 1980. There are other examples of this type of antitrust violation that went unchallenged — the big box video stores used these special deals with VHS/Beta movie distributors to put the independent video stores out of business and the big box book stores used these special deals with book publishers to put the independent book stores out of business. I know from speaking with owners of these independent stores (video and book) that they pressured the feds to go after the special deals and that the feds started some investigations, but that the feds never followed through.
LL:
Again, thanks. The Sears case would have been back in the 80s.
Have you tried to connect to electronic resources via your local library system or the State University system? I am in Mass and they are moving to give residents access to all their e-resource holdings. Fortunately, my wife has access to the State University resources so I get to find stuff I need – though the most recent journals are not generally accessible.
Yes, what a horrible company! I wonder how much AFT donated to help feed poor children.
“Walmart and the Walmart Foundation announced that over the last fiscal year they gave more than $1 billion in cash and in-kind contributions, making it the first time Walmart or any U.S. retailer has achieved that level of giving.”
“Some of those benefiting from Walmart’s hunger relief efforts include students at Port Towns Elementary School in Prince George’s County, Md., where 80 percent of students live at or below the poverty line. Last year, the Walmart Foundation donated more than $700,000 to the Prince George’s County school district to help fund a Breakfast in the Classroom program. The school’s principal, Mrs. Lisa Farabaugh, sees the benefits firsthand.
“I love kids. They’re my life. I want to do what I can to provide for them,” said Farabaugh. “One of my kindergarten teachers said ‘so many children come to my class in the morning hungry.’ Walmart supports the Breakfast in the Classroom program that provides a free breakfast for every child here at Port Towns. Some of the benefits have been better student attendance and students more focused and eager to learn. I can’t imagine the school without having the breakfast program.”
I read about something similar in CA and Walmart. The kids got expired granola bars, sugary cereals and pop tarts and other high calorie crap that would never be served to the children of wealth. So they gave away what would have ended up in the trash.
Bravo! Sam would be so proud.
No one, including WALMART, would have to donate food to schools or food banks or anywhere else, if companies like WALMART paid all of their employees real, living wages….
BINGO!
Not exactly. There are plenty of unemployed, homeless, welfare recipients, and impoverished elderly who are very much in need of food banks etc. We send backpacks of food home with our students on weekends and a local church provides brown lunch size bags of snacks too. The need is great and with the current unemployment figures in my county(+15%), it only gets worse.
It’s tricky with Walmart because to keep good vibes in communities they will give to teachers; not long ago $50 Walmart gift cards were given to our teachers for having attended a training on one of our new data collection programs and they brought gobs of desk supplies. I also notice if the administration is feeding the staff, there will be Walmart brand products.
Little do many teachers know about the schooling preferences the company would rather see in lieu of public schools. Or it seems that way given how giddy they get about the free stuff.
Joanna Best,
Hysterical and tragic, all at the same time.
How plain stupid are these teachers?
Don’t they read up on the Waltons and know what they are all about? Aside from education, let’s assume for arguement’s sake that Walmart was truly pro-education. Well, guess what: their labor policies and union busting and piss poor pay and benefits are enought to make teachers and anyone else with a decent bone in their body protest against this company and do everything in their legal power to neutralize the Walton family . . . .
Teachers taking gobs of supplies home from Walmart?
What a horrifying and quintessentially ironic scene.
Sheeps handing the butchers the knives at the slaughter house . . . . .
Robert,
I’ve had teachers in my building tell me I need to stop reading so much!
Green Party Teacher,
Then how will you ever learn to do a close reading?
Please tell that to your colleagues. . . .although they may not know what that means because they are not well read on the CCSS . . . .
Keep on reading, I say. Read your brains out.
Knowledge is power . . . . . always.
I have always abhorred and found total opprobrium in the apathy of the general citizenry far more than in the evils of the plutocrats. Martin Luther King said that apathy and silence are just as deadly as active evil itself.
He was not kidding.
In all seriousness, I have learned that it is better to patiently educate the sheeple rather than impatiently and snottily snub them. You’d be surprised at how many people come around to listening. . . But it is a process indeed, and you won’t turn on everyone.
Still, the truth always seeks its own level, like water, and it is irrepressible to even the most stoic.
Bravo Robert…clapping in my kitchen!
And Green Party..yes to shopping locally and not chain stores.
Visiting my local bookstore tomorrow, Hickory Stick Bookshop, Washington, CT
Robert:
You write:“In all seriousness, I have learned that it is better to patiently educate the sheeple rather than impatiently and snottily snub them. You’d be surprised at how many people come around to listening. . . But it is a process indeed, and you won’t turn on everyone.”
I doubt any will come around, once they realize you regard them as “sheeple”. Astonishing.
Bernie, you desperately cling to one term, which we have heard before, which refers to groups who follow along blindly. That’s your deflection now and it’s trivial.
However, you routinely dismiss the criticism of your holier than thou posts as though you are superior to all of us, which is evident in many of your comments. You dismiss others who do not share your views and those who disagree must defend themselves to you. When it comes to experience with children, teaching and learning, you are NOT an expert despite your affiliation with your one-time high school teacher wife.
Robert, perhaps you need to ride your high horse into my small burg. Then get off it – we have what we have and yes, the Walton family is reeking havoc on public education but locally they support us and provide jobs (be they ever so humble, they are JOBS that would not be here without Wal-Mart.) Our plants are gone and as far as I know, none of them made things you might find at WM. So while I avoid the store as much as possible, I am thankful they are here employing our citizens. And as one of the sheeple out there who has spent over $400 of my own money (in a variety of book venues) since August on books for my school library, I would be thrilled to get one of those $50 gift cards. WM has a great selection of popular children’s books.
I would have to drive 45 minutes to find one of those locally owned bookstores which I also support.
Ms. Cartwheel Librarian:
I have never in my life referred to any group of people as “Sheeple”. Thanks for noticing Robert’s interesting view of others. Reminds me of “Animal Farm” in so many ways.
Bernie,
Please note that my sheeple statement was addressed to Robert. While I understand his analogy, I see it as yet another of his attacks on people who are doing their best. I see no reason for toxic attacks on individuals here. It has been my understanding that this blog is for the purpose of improving public education, not tossing vitriolic insults at each other.
I do what I can do where I am. My Saturday “shopping spree” had one purpose yesterday: buying underpants for students. I did not go to Wal-Mart.
Cartwheel:
I believe I understood your comment – your robust language made it difficult to misinterpret – and I agree with your sentiments. What strikes me as odd is the reluctance of some here to see the other side of issues and to discuss an issue. I admire and applaud your personal efforts to help your students in practical ways.
Bernie,
:^) Thank you. I hadn’t thought of it as practical but it is and most K-12 educators find themselves doing similar things throughout the years. My students just happen to be exceptionally needy and my budget nonexistent so things need to be taken care of if we are going to move forward one foot in front of the other and then repeat.
And while one chats about the horrors of Walmart, please see:
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/is-wal-mart-destroying-america-20-facts-about-wal-mart-that-will-absolutely-shock-you
Walmart uses its profits for two primary purposes: to expand the number of stores across the nation and to fatten the pockets of the Walton family. They are more avaricious than Pauls Deen and a pail of sugary butter.
One needs to change the name from “Walmart” to “Crapmart” . . . or “Chinamart”, “Outsource-mart”, “Trade-Imbalance-Mart”, or “Welfare Workers Mart” (no disrespect to the store clerks employed therein, but they should unionize. I respect the labors of the common man) . . . . . .
Am I that astonishing to you, Bernie?
How suggestible are you.
Sorry, but after going back and forth to France and Spain for years, there are grave differences between how Europeans view labor rights and fiscal equality compared to the folks here in the States.
We would be lucky to have even half the verve Europeans do when it comes to labor justice.
Instead, we have far too much passivity and lack of awareness even though the information is perfectly available here, albeit not always in mainstream media, which is fine.
So, yes, Bernie, there are sheeple, which accounts for unions being severely attenuated, pensions eroding, taxation systems that grossly and acutely favor big business and the rich, a scandalous child poverty rate in the U.S., a lack of true universal healthcare, a mass transit system that is still back from the early 1900’s as far as breadth and range, income inequality that is grotesquely out of control, a military industrial complex that is hemorrhaging money out of our domestic infrastructure, an attack against social security, guns and violence amongst civilians at unprecedented levels during non-war times on our own soil, and a court that has declared corporations, which are legal artificial identities, to be “people”.
Sheeple is the perfect word, and I am perfectly comfortable with my word choice.
Ms. Cartwheel Librarian,
Walmart is NO answer to employment woes. The company enjoys corporate welfare as it contributes almost no tax base to the townships it resides in (other than employee income tax), pays low wages that qualifies its employees to public assistance, and contributes to gross trade imbalances.
Go right ahead and take one of those $50 cards and spend it on supplies. You will be handing your purchasing power to the very entity that wants to destroy your job in public education.
If you take from the devil and give to the devil, don’t complain later on that your derriere is sore from the devil’s pitchfork . . . . Believe it or not, I have rather learned this lesson from the luminous Harlan Underhill, of all people.
Connect the dots, Ms Cartwheel/Walmart lover .. there aren’t two many of them. Here, I’ll guide you: First, you glide your pencil from dot 1 to dot 2, then from dot 2 to dot 3, then find dot 4 once you leave dot 3. . . . keep on going until you get to dot 10. When you get to dot 10, stop . . . . See if you can figure out the outline you have created.
What shape does it suggest? . . . . .
Accurate. But those who choose will claim the European ways are “socialistic” and evil. Yet, when you show them the “socialist ic” behavior exhibited by Jesus himself, they choose the to praise the Pharisees. Go figure. Go figure. And, oh my, they claim to be following the guiding principles of the first Americans, for whom a new version of history has been excavated since it has been buried by the evil scientists of the 20th century and today. Argh. The cognitive dissonance is painful.
That’s because it’s rare to find an American who understands all semantic shades of the word “socialist” . . . . .
Foolish is as foolish does . . . . or thinks . . . . .
Correct. And if one explains, offers an encyclopedia or reference, it is “suspect” in its origins and motives. What a load of baloney. It can’t be true if it hasn’t been filtered by some so-called Biblically educated pastor or institution.
People can go ahead and belueve whatever they please, but they don’t need to denigrate my beliefs or decisions to think for myself. Or more specifically to tell me that their memory verses and Christian doomsday novels are more sufficient and accurate than the words of Jesus himself. (My apologies to those of other faiths. I am not trying to put down anyone’s beliefs, but rather to be allowed to express a more moderate view of Christian beliefs.)
Much of what is fueling the homeschool movement is fundamentalist views and rejection of other beliefs than their own. This is grand planting ground for ALEC to take root and spread the Ayn Randian ideas of the free market along side their fear ridden assumptions about “the other”.
My frustration is that I don’t belueve that our country is supposed to shove one religion down everyone’s throats. Yet here we are, unenlightened and seemingly regress.
Who will benefit? The wealthy. They work harder? I don’t think so.
Apologies to Cartwheel Librarian:
You are not a Walmart lover, but somewhat alarmingly a Walmart excusionist . . . . Neither is productive in my estimate.
Robert,
Your estimation matters less than one infinitesimal drop of your high horse’s piss. Your reference to Joanna’s fellow teachers, “How plain stupid are these teachers?” is inexcusable. Those teachers are struggling to get by with less of everything at school and more demand locally, statewide, and nationally. They have had their salaries frozen for years and some probably receive public assistance. It’s where we live. We are not Europe, Asia, or anywhere in-between. We do our jobs the best we can for our children because everybody’s children are our children. I am not excusing Wal-Mart for anything. I don’t approve of their connection to charters et al but they provide jobs locally and that is important to me and my students. Apparently the jobs are beneath what you deem as desirable. Oh well, keep on beating the drum of righteous indignation. It won’t help us one little bit. See if you can connect those dots.
The Walmart owners and their friends seem to hold all the cards. By having money and voice through money, common folks are at their mercy. Either way- shopping or boycotting- we are danged if we do and danged if we don’t. That is what is frightening and irritating. It isn’t TH knd of America I want nor what the 98% deserve.
The jobs and people were never deemed by me to be undesireable.
But their payscale and lack of benefits, their oppression when it comes to organizing for collective bargaining. . . . yes, Ms. Cartwheel, my horse’s urine says that all of those traits are unspeakably undesireable, and hanging onto a dire situation to solve an immediate crisis is very legitimate and human. . . . all of us, including myself, do it on a daily basis . . . but seeing Walmart as someting to be thankful for, somewhere to shop to alleviate other costs, somewhere as a “relief” valve for immediate employment, all while too many of its employees can’t get the full time hours to qualify for a health insurance program, whose employees are asked to donate goods to other employees who are too poor and broke, who conitrbutes nothing to a township’s tax base, and who is using profits to fatten and already fattened family to fruther their agenda of destroying a so many public goods, and whose coffers can well afford to pay far more to its employees in the form of pay and benefits without raising too much costs to consumers. . . . . . well, what can I say.
Human suffering should never be alleviated with strings of inequity attached. . . . and NO, we are not Europe, but my point is that we can learn many excellent lessons from Western and Northern Europe . . .
While you dismiss my persuasion as riding upon a high horse – and I advocate strongly for your right of free speech – you may consider taking your own visage out of the proximity of the gift horse’s mouth . . . as sooner or later, its policies will clamp down on you with all those lobbied-for horse’s teeth.
Besides, horse breath is particularly unpleasant, I’d imagine . . . .
“somewhere as a “relief” valve for immediate employment,’ as apposed to twelve years in a nosedive to the rank of highest and most unrelenting unemployment in the state (up to 16.7% in the recent past.) Sorry, people have to eat and your perception is one of someone with a full stomach and a full colon I might add. This pseudo-intellectual blithering means nothing to those out there struggling to find food and adequate shelter for themselves and their children. Those are my children and I will (and have) fight for them at any level.
A great many people have too much to lose and nothing to fall back on to pursue unionization etc. I have a saying and those who know me understand it, “Don’t piss off the librarian.” You may continue your blathering about Wal-Mart and everything else that is wrong with the world. As the yardman of my youth used to say, “It don’t make no never mind.”
Robert:
I come from Europe. I experienced socialism first hand and I have no intentions of returning.
Eastern or Western?
I wish you would. Or if not, go back to your cave or coffin, Mr. ideologue-vampire.
Of course, if you come from Eastern Europe, then it is understandable, as did Milos Forman, the cinematographer. But that version of socialism was a corrupt version. . . . . it was not true equality running behind the iron curtain.
Talk to the French, the Spaniards, the Italians, the FInnish, the Germans, even the Swedes . . . .
You would be lucky to have nationalized healthcare . . . .
You need to include Exon-Mobil, Eli Broad and his interests, the Koch Brothers and their interests and many other Billionaires working to destroy public schools.
It appears the profiteers have us doing what they intend for us to do- carp at one another and hurl personal insults, divide, and lose. Let us not stoop to these levels while they trample over us middle classers (and I use the term “class” very loosely- not much class has been shown here today) on their way to the bank.
This is not civilized discourse. This is disgusting and demeaning. You are arguing over WALMART, for goodness sake!
Mr. Tellman,
We’re not arguing over Walmart; we are arguing over Walmart’s politics and its hideous influence over the lives of teachers and children and families who are part and parcel of public schools.
It is a perfectly appropriate argument.
“Pitting” is nothing new, but it is often used to mis-characterize what is good old fahsioned confrontation and disagreement, something I would like to see develop more, in appropriate forums, in the American cultureal psyche, something that if it were more robust, might actualize change faster and more effectively . . . .Something thaty would lead the United Stated back to a path of more social and fiscal justice, plain and simple. Although admittedly, the path there is somewhat more complex, as we are a very large country.
There is a reason there are screaming matches in British Parliament.
There is a reason why the French peasantry overthrew their monarch.
There is a legitimate reason for contradictory views, and since most of them are not highlighted in mainstream media most of the time, we may as well utilize them here in this forum.
Power to social media . . . . .
Social media often lends itself to spouting before thinking. It is also faceless, so people feel hidden when they verbally attack others. Civilized discourse and debate need not include name calling and personal attacks.
People really believe they are communicating more today than ever before. I posit we are talking at one another rather than speaking with. For example, notice how many people you see ignoring people they are with physically while texting or emailing those who are not present. That leads me to think it is all about me, myself, and I. How many times do you think people text and ask the other person what they think or feel about something?
The natural give and take, speak and listen cycle does not lend itself to social media. We often fire off a response without really knowing what the other person is trying to relate. Absent facial expressions and intonation, etc., I find it difficult to truly know the intentions of others or to have my own judged.
I think we are already existing in the “people don’t give a s*it what you think” world of David Coleman’s CCSS. How productive are the screaming matches in Parliament do you think? Do you believe they scream to hear what others are saying or to throw their own ideas at others?
You must be younger than I am because I don’t see respect of the ideas and opinions of others, listening, striving for consensus, planning, then moving forward with the plan having any importance to the newest generation. What I see is arrogance and narcissism and an immaturity akin to a youngster’s view of his limited-experience, inside-looking-out world.
The only difference I see in people bullying one another here and the profiteers bullying the middle and lower class is the amount of money they have with which to buy influence.
Hmmmmmmmmmmm……………………..Saturday Night Alive at Walmart..
I bought one item at Walmart last year and that is one more that I have bought this year.
More businesses that are anti worker and support so called reform groups should be exposed and boycotted. When I found out JC Penney donated money to TFA I sent a letter to their CEO stating I was a long time customer but would no longer shop at JCP. I said I believe TFA and what it is doing is harmful to public education. I never got a response from JCP. I don’t buy from any companies that belong to ALEX for the same reason. If I know a business that is abusive to it’s workers or anti education I refuse to support them. It can be difficult but public education is more important to me than the inconvenience . There should be an easier way to know which companies are like Walmart so they can be boycotted. About the only way these companies change if it hits them in the pocket book.
TFA…The power Testers think they know more than a veteran teacher…..They know more than they understand..
Suppose they had SFA..Surgeons for America…NOT LISTENING TO THE OLDER & WISER …….marching into the operating room saddled with their top GPA’s and knowing how to take a test….
Who had you rather operate on your Brain.?..
The veteran surgeon with 40 years of experience…..or the SFA coming in after a 4 year Knowledge Based Book Learning..Test-Taking Expert..
Nah……The SFA is younger..paid less..zero experience…more book knowledge..Give he/she the knife and let’em have at it..
All is going going the tube anyway on this path..
CORRECT, Neanderthal100.
Big business wants to have the biggest say in education and has predatorily encroached upon a realm to deliberately exclude educators at the round table. All facilitated, of course, by our elected officials, starting with I-can-fool-you-with-my-appearance-Barack Obama and his foot-stuck-between-the-teeth-in-need-of-grammar-lessons-and-speech-therapy-secretary-of-education-Arne Duncan.
To be fair about this, the sheeple in the state and national unions have cooperated with this, beautifully so, I might add.
Let’s not forget all ghouls on both sides of the DC aisles who have supported this reform while voting to decrease public school funding and appropriating money to stay in Afghanistan for several more years with at least 9000 more troops at a cost of about 1 million dollars per day . . . . . But veterans need not worry, because when they come back from their tours (assuming they are alive or not disabled), Walmart literally has reserved 100,000 jobs for military personnel who have not been discharged dishonorably.
Stupid military campaigns, low wage jobs that qualify employees for public assistance, and testing and evaluations driven up on steroids: all those things from the overclass are always for OTHER peole’s children, not for the offspring of those we put into office . . . . . . .
But look at the moms across America . . . . the mothers in Texas who decried half a billion dollars given to Pearson, the suburban white mothers (and mothers NOT in that category) who responded to Arne Duncan’s racist comment . . . .
Beware of sheeple (not at all intended to be read as “she-puhl”, but intended as “sheep-puhl”, for clarity’s sake).
When pushed too far and unfairly, they appropriately turn into lions, tigers, and bears, oh my . . . .As do their spouses, in-laws, friends, and family, and the new fierce kingdom goes right ahead and shows their prowess in the jungle at the voting booth . . . . Zebra and gazelle politicians, beware . . . . . .
RETRACTION and CORRECTION (I was referring to state and national unions only in this paragraph, not to anyone else . . . )
“To be fair about this, the state and national unions have cooperated with this, beautifully so, I might add”
from what I understand they bought out the U. Arkansas where Sandra Stotsky now works. If I am wrong about this, please correct me. Thanks
Some people call it the University of Walmart but that may be unfair to those who work in departments other the Department of Educational Reform, which is a hotbed of voucher advocacy.
Hundreds of protesters, including some Walmart workers who skipped their shifts on the retail industry’s busiest day, spoke, chanted and sang outside of Walmart stores around the United States, making pleas for higher wages and better healthcare for Walmart hourly workers.
http://www.courant.com/business/hc-walmart-protest-20131129,0,5805188.story
Linda:
Thanks for the link. Everybody should read the actual article. It is pretty factual and appears balanced.
It closed with this statement:
For its part, Walmart said it recorded its best Black Friday events ever, with more shoppers than last year and nearly 10 million register transactions between 8 p.m. Thursday and 12 a.m. Friday. It said it sold more than 1.8 million towels, 1.3 million TVs and some 250,000 bicycles.
What Walmart “reports”…got it…will never get my money EVER.
I don’t need their cheap Chinese crap. Shop Cosco or local.
My plan today, the 3/50 project:
http://www.the350project.net/home.html
Thanks Linda,
I heard of this through a friend. The website is great to share
Happy 3/50ing!
http://www.democracynow.org/2013/11/26/as_wal_mart_workers_plan_record
There are other records being broken, not just sales….
Read or watch the link
Linda:
I am not desperately clinging to anything. I am not claiming any more expertise than a parent who raised and educated 3 children. I try not to dismiss people who have different views or criticisms: I try to engage them by posing counter-arguments and asking questions.
You say, “However, you routinely dismiss the criticism of your holier than thou posts as though you are superior to all of us, which is evident in many of your comments. You dismiss others who do not share your views and those who disagree must defend themselves to you.”
So let’s use this string to see what I have said, how I have said it and what others have said by way of response.
deb (I am not sure if there is a deb and Deb) made a broad generalization that Wal-Mart’s low prices lead people to buy things they do not need. I said that was presumptuous. We all sometimes buy things we do not need. I see no reason to single out those who shop at Wal-Mart.
Dienne argued that Wal-Mart removes the ability of people to shop where they choose. Since I spent 25 years in retail, I have a perspective on what the appearance of Wal-Mart does or doesn’t do the choices folks can make. Dienne overstates the case.
Robert then came along and suggested that rather than a boycott of Wal-Mart, people should take advantage of Wal-Mart’s return policy, buy stuff and return it. I argued that engaging in such action will likely undermine the moral authority of opponents of Wal-Mart’s position on education and only serves to inconvenience Wal-Mart customers and employees.
Ponderosa then described his one-man efforts to demonstrate in front of Wal-Mart, something he is free to do. Alas in response to someone else’s criticism of his actions, he then added: “When plutocrats are free, the rest of us are unfree. See Guatemala and other oligarchies.” I responded by questioning this sweeping piece of rhetoric, adding that I do not feel exploited by Gates, Soros, etc. and asking who did?
Then you responded with a non sequitur and ad hominems: “You focus on yourself only as usual. Because you haven’t felt exploited no one else has? Your egotistical, myopic views are immature and constantly annoying.” I simply pointed out that I never said that people are not exploited and asked if you were exploited by the likes of Bill Gates, George Soros, Paul Lewis, etc., or how many Americans would say that they were exploited by such plutocrats. You chose not to answer the questions.
Robert then congratulated you on your ad hominems as if this somehow validates them.
Robert then added in response to a comment about teachers buying classroom supplies and other items at Wal-Mart this unsolicited put down: “I have learned that it is better to patiently educate the sheeple rather than impatiently and snottily snub them. You’d be surprised at how many people come around to listening. . . But it is a process indeed, and you won’t turn on everyone.”. To which I responded that I was astonished that someone would express themselves in such a fashion.
He subsequently awarded you an “A+” and me an “F”.
You then wrapped up with: ” Bernie, you desperately cling to one term, which we have heard before, which refers to groups who follow along blindly. That’s your deflection now and it’s trivial.
However, you routinely dismiss the criticism of your holier than thou posts as though you are superior to all of us, which is evident in many of your comments. You dismiss others who do not share your views and those who disagree must defend themselves to you. When it comes to experience with children, teaching and learning, you are NOT an expert despite your affiliation with your one-time high school teacher wife.”
Linda, you may think the “sheeple” statement is trivial, but I do not. Robert’s subsequent elaboration perfectly illustrated why the term “sheeple” is not trivial. Nor do I think calling teachers “stupid” is trivial. Nor have I claimed anything more than to state my opinion. It was not me who awarded someone with whom I disagreed an “F” and then raised it to an “F+”.
I will leave it to others to judge, based on what was actually said, who exactly is dismissive of those who do not share their views, who makes holier than thou statements, who rejects criticism and who assumes a superiority to others.
Of course, your read of what was said may differ. I am perfectly ready to withdraw or amend anything that I have written that is not accurate.
Bernie,
I put “sheeple” and “stupid” (shopping at Walmart) in context and explained articulately why. In this day and age of political acumen, “foolish” is a superior adjective to “stupid”, so I retract it and hereby insert the latter. There is merit to your pointing out my hasty choice of words.
What exactly is your background, your last name, where do you work, what are your credentials? I am by now familiar with that of your wife’s. Have long have you taught in public school, and how much experience do you have with teaching low income populations and engaging their parents?
And you’re not being fair.
I upgraded you to an F+ if you had bothered to read subsequent comments.
Really, Bernie . . . . you should walk a lot of walks before you decide to talk a lot of talks . . . . And please don’t use your wife’s teaching career as your fuel . . . . Diesel engines can only run on diesel properly. If you don’t have any diesel, your car will not be taken as seriously in the race of free thinking and ideas.
What do you expect?
And BTW:
“But it is a process indeed, and you won’t turn on everyone.”
Goodness! “Turn on everyone” was meant as turning people onto better ideas, social and fiscal justice, and critical thinking. .. It was not meant to be “turning against” people the way an angry dog can “turn on” its master . . . .
“Turn” + preposition can translate into a few different idiomatic meanings . . . .
I wanted to clarify that . . . .
I for one am very grateful for the provocation of discussion and severe push and pull herein.
There is nothing unhealthy or counter-productive about some good old fashioned confrontation and sparring, an absence of which in a sometimes historically bland, vanilla, flattened and feckless cultural apathy is a detriment to real change for social justice.
Sometimes, there is more to debate than just accuracy, although accuracy is a central core of all worthwhile debate.
There is also passion, visceral persuasion, philosophy, values, and yes, sometimes the brew can become acidic.
If one is not willing to stir the brew in hopes for a better recipe, one should think of rooms other than the kitchen to hang out in . . . . .
Robert:
We appear to agree on at least one thing.
Bernie,
I declare with tremendous relaxation that I care not as to whether we do or do not agree with each other.
My overlap with you is neither important to me nor to my contribution to a greater cause.
Agreed.
Yes to Deb and Robert. Disregard Bernie.
Vis-cer-al (characterized by or proceeding from instinct rather than intellect) persuasion?
An intelligent, healthy discussion (and yes, passionate debate) about the purpose of educating subsequent generations would be extremely productive. There is no one accuracy, philosophy or value argument. Not mine, not yours, nor the 1%’s. I’ve no doubt we are all equally passionate about the future we envision.
Mr. Tellman,
The 1 or 2 percenters who want to reform education . . . well, many of them do NOT have education at all in their hearts. They have very bad motives. . . . . You would be well advised not to be so trusting.
Robert:
First, have I misrepresented the substance of the exchanges here?
Second, it is not me who needs to read more carefully. My third to last paragraph reads:
It was not me who awarded someone with whom I disagreed an “F” and then raised it to an “F+”.
I have not used my wife’s career to fuel anything. On this string I mentioned the fact that my wife is a teacher purely in response to Linda’s baseless comment:
“Don’t even bother. He’s slumming by even conversing with lowly teachers.
To which I responded:
Linda:
That is just silly. My wife was a HS teacher and is now a college teacher.
In what way is my comment inappropriate? What would you have had me say?
Whenever the subject focuses on the specifics of education as opposed to say “boycotting Wal-Mart”, I add the following when I start to comment, primarily to please Linda:
To assuage some here I apparently have to declare that I am not a K-12 educator, merely the father of 3 kids and husband of a former HS teacher.
I do not see a need to say any more about my background at this point.
I have refrained from comments for several hours because it serves little purpose to try to explain one’s feelings or observations when some are focused on one word or phrase typed by people who may have generalized “in the moment”. Demanding some kind of explanation (that, when offered is never suitable) is self-serving and off-putting. Once this behavior is thrown into the mix, it is futile to participate.
This particular thread is so far from the original intent that it is now a waste of space. I do not ever post here with the purpose of “answering to” some nitpicking blowhard’s demands. I won’t. There are 3 such people, maybe more, throughout all these blog threads, who seem to focus on anything but the “big picture”. That picture being : our schools are in danger if widespread privatization and our country is in danger of losing the middle class. It is easier to manag the masses when the masses are “broken”, jobless, and needy. Bit by bit we are seeing the manipulation of money mingled with the manipulation of facts. This is contributing at an ever-increasing pace to the dissolving of the American Dream. It seems to be a desire of many, for varying reasons, to make sure that stability and security is reserved for the few. The fear that allowing anyone (but those holding the purse strings and the perceived morality of the pre-60s eras) to have voice or rights has caused so many to try to take control.
The America I grew up believing in was a flawed place, not a perfect place, but a place where race and gender were given opportunities to be on equal footing. I grew up in a fundamentalist church that left me scratching my head with discomfort and distrust because of the hypocrisy that was evident to anyone not wearing blinders. The advent of the prosperity gospel cooked my goose so to speak. I have no respect or trust for greedy, self-serving actions, esp when taken in the name of God or proclaiming his direction or approval for those actions.
Our schools are a community venture and effort to build a society of people who can get along with others, care about others, and pursue learning about all the world, not just st a narrowly prescribed focus that only serves a particular faction or faith or tiny goal not shared by the community at large. We squawk and point finger at others opinions here. Where are the solutions? Why can’t we work together instead of allowing a few people with skewed ideas if self-worth to make demands on others. I, for one, plan to ignore those three people (who I assume are men) who show up in various threads. I resent their constant name references and their decisions to “call out” people. I don’t want or need harassment nor do I wish to answer to their petty insinuations. I wish to find a way to stop ALEC, the Kich Brothers, Gates, Walmart, and anyone else who wishes to own America.
Manage not manag. Of not if. Koch brothers not Kich.
Oh, for an editing feature!
But Bernie,
You say are are in “retail” . . . . . What is it that you are trying to sell?
I have tried to buy what you put out there, and the product does not work.
Here . . . . here’s my receipt. It’s within 30 days.
I’d like my money back . . . .
Robert:
All sale items are final, no returns or exchanges. It is in red on your receipt and there is a large sign by the cash wrap. Sorry. HAND and CBS. 😉
Return policies were never posted as you claim, Bernie who is in retail and faced dark socialism in some unknown part of “Europe” . . . .
In that case, I shall take full advantage of consumer blogs and splash your company and all its retail philosophy and my consumer experiences with it across every post, every rating, and every recommendation section I can find . . . .
You may as well start a “hate us on facebook” section on your store’s website . . . . . .
I’m with Deb . . . .
You miss the point but that is expected. Are you the king at home? Does everyone worship? Not so much here. Start a blog of your own. You have the time.
:^)
🙂
for one thing they as employers are the PITS ,The new story about the food drive is really typical of them ..Low wages , no health benefis ect