Jake Miller is a teacher who wrote an article for the UK Guardian as a tribute to two teachers who were recently murdered by students.
He was stunned by the tone of the comments that came from many who read his article. They were vicious and anti-teacher. He couldn’t understand it. Why so much anti-teacher sentiment?
He wrote to ask for my advice. I urged him to keep writing. Help the public understand what teachers do.
Write op-eds for the local paper, for Huffington, for Valerie Strauss, for this blog.
I urged him not to read the comments. A staggering number are written by people who blame teachers for whatever went wrong in their lives. Their hatred is palpable. The only place he can publish where he is unlikely to encounter a teacher hater is here. They are not welcome. When they start spewing their venom, I delete them. No haters welcome.
Diane Ravitch's blog 
Just out of curiosity, how many comments made here are deleted in a week? I know several of mine were for length (in a discussion about how poverty measures had changed over time) and the unfortunate posting of K Spradlin’s comment was deleted for a time but eventually put back up, but I have not noticed many deletions.
To answer the question posed: Because that’s what the oligarchs want.
Duane:
What evidence do you have to support such a comment?
Ay, Ay, Ay, Bernadito.
Duane:
I know you may have had a rough night last night watching my Red Sox beat your Cardinals, but how is that a response to my question?
Lo siento, eres una Bernadita, eh!
Duane:
Sour grapes??
I’ve been a teacher for 25 years. I have worked with some amazing professionals in this career. I’ve also worked with a few teachers I honestly felt needed to find a different vocation. They just didn’t seem to even like kids. I’ve also just been through the k-12 experience with my two teenagers. Their elementary and middle school teachers were for the most part stellar (with a glitch in 4th grade). However, by the time they got to high school I can count on one hand the number of teachers my children encountered who were truly gifted teachers who had an instilled desire and passion for teaching and learning. There seems to be some sort of a disconnect.
Perhaps those students in an education program desire to teach in elementary schools. Teachers at the high school level usually have an expertise in a specific content area, and didn’t go to school to be a teacher. If a teacher is an expert in Physics, he or she would have likely wanted to be an engineer in college. Being an expert in your content does not instantly make you an expert in the delivery of that content knowledge. This is why professional development is so critical at all levels of academia.
Finger pointing happens at every level. Consider this poem:
Whose Fault is it? Certainly Not Mine (I don’t know the author)
The college professor said, “Such wrong in the student is a shame, lack of preparation in high school is to blame.”
Said the high school teacher, “Good heavens, that boy is a fool. Fault, of course, is the middle school.”
The middle school teacher said, “From such stupidity may I be spared? They send him to me so unprepared.”
The elementary teacher said, “The kindergarteners are block-heads all. They call it preparation; why, it’s worse than none at all.”
The kindergarten teacher said, “Such lack of training never did I see. What kind of mother must that woman be?”
The mother said, “Poor helpless child, he’s not to blame. For you see his father’s folks are all the same.”
Said the father, at the end of the line, “I doubt the rascal’s even mine!”
We can point fingers all the way down the line, but when the door closes, I am charged with helping my students grow from where ever they are. This has to be done with care, planning, and without blame.
Instead of pointing fingers, parents have to take the time to advocate for their children and teachers have to reach out to parents for support before issues escalate. By co-laboring in the education process our children will thrive.
There are many parts–other than parents and teachers–to the success equation for students: building and district administrators; available resources within the building, district, community; environment–home, school, community; family, school, district, community economics; district, community, county, state, federal politics; etc.. It is far too easy and simplistic to place the blame on a failed student–teacher relationship. We all have a responsibility to help children grow into their adulthood, from the bus driver who greets at the start of the day to the neighbor sitting on their stoop at the end of the day. I am saddened whenever I hear someone say, not my job, not my responsibility. Teachers and parents cannot do it alone.
And don’t forget the school’s receptionist! Great perspective.
Diane:
Does Linda’s statement, “by the time they got to high school I can count on one hand the number of teachers my children encountered who were truly gifted teachers who had an instilled desire and passion for teaching and learning. “ constitute teacher bashing?
I can see why you would say that. Perhaps it is true. The post should be removed if you feel that way. I do apologize if that sounded bad. I work with some great teachers and have worked with those that need and should find another profession or a different level. As a parent, I can tell you my children were miserable a lot of the time because of their high school experiences. Why should we only discuss the good and not the not so good? There is good and bad in all professions. I asked them about their teachers all the time. They only spoke of five. There are many reasons that they had so few. I did not say that the others were bad. I said they could count five who motivated them. There is a lot of pressure on our teachers. We don’t always connect with our charges. It’s just a different perspective. I do see why my rantings may have caused offense. I am a bit of a polemicist.
So, in response to an article about teachers that were *murdered*, including one that was studying counseling and specifically spent extra time helping the struggling student that later murdered her, you post a poem about how teachers pass the buck?
Shame on you.
I said finger pointing, not pass the buck. It happens. My point was/is that it doesn’t matter if the parents are pointing the fingers or the teachers. What matters is that I do my best to access quality professional development, participate in Professional Learning Communities, and carefully plan my lessons to meet the diverse learning needs of the students in my charge. I do my due diligence. I can care, counsel, and coach to the best of my abilities, but this is no guarantee that I will always get it right. A murderer isn’t thinking about how much I planned, or cared, or helped.
I think we need to be open and honest here. There is nothing that that teacher could have done differently. Districts need to provide the best possible training to us. Schools need to plan for worst case scenarios and brief the teachers of those plans. Teachers need skills in de-escalation.
I work in an extremely economically disadvantaged neighborhood. A large percentage of my students have rap sheets to the floor. I am not privvy to their arrest records, and in most cases never know unless an ankle bracelet is present. Should I point a finger and say, “How can you allow a criminal in my classroom?” Or as a parent, “How can you allow a criminal in the same classroom as my child?” I also have homeless students, foster parent hoppers, emotionally handicapped students, sexually and physically abused students etc. We don’t get to select who is in our school. We take all, and should. There are risks, and it is a battlefield.
Does it matter who is to blame? The point of the poem is that we can’t point fingers, or in your words, “pass the buck.” We can only look at our charges as if our lives depend on how well we do. Their lives depend on how well we do.
When a kid snaps, I pray for all of us that none are in the cross hairs.
For the record, I have posted my full name. My point was very clear that we cannot point fingers. So shame on you for not reading carefully and pointing a finger at me while hiding behind a letter.
I recall hearing folks blaming their lack of pursuit of a musical instrument or singing on a past music teacher, which I find pathetic. I always chose to take teachers who differed from me or didn’t see what I saw as a challenge, not meant for revenge but for achieving that much more!
Teacher haters are a sad lot. That said, as teachers we should always try to reach all of our students, knowing that a few will slip by (not talking about academically, just in terms of connecting with them in a profound, personal way). As a teacher, I am sad when I can’t reach a kid.
I would ask, though, had the kid who killed that math teacher been on meds? Again, when you mess with the wiring in the brain. . .you might get unintended consequences.
You could choose teachers? In my local school district, high school students can choose classes but are typically not told who will be teaching those classes.
“chose to take” meaning how I chose to interpret them and their role in my development.
We have choice in how we let people affect us. In fact, that is the greatest choice we have.
What a great response, Joanna! It shows great maturity–that taking responsibility for one’s own responses and emotional state!
I went to school with dinosaurs, but we always knew who would be teaching which class when.
I the high schools here you can request classes, but the school puts together the schedule and often students do not get their first choice of classes. Each class might have a couple of teachers who might teach the section. This is a very large high school for my state (about 1,400 students). In the typical high school I imagine that there might be only one teacher for a class
Thank you, Diane. Those not connected to the classroom have no idea the danger teachers face on the job each day, nor do they have any idea that we teachers must prepare our students and ourselves to deal with the kinds of mass shootings that threaten the lives of our students and ourselves. I was a new teacher when Columbine occurred. Our district was on vacation, and my husband and I were out of town. Overwhelmed with a sense of loss and for what my own students might be experiencing, I called my principal just to share my grief with someone who understood. Fast forward to Sandy Hook; more than grief, I was consumed with anger. All that we teachers do to prepare and protect our students–nearly 30 children and adults were dead! We do all we can to protect our students, prepare them for horrific catastrophes within a place that should be sanctuary and safe. NRA lobbyists and assault weapon defenders convince legislators to do nothing. It is past time for adults–other than just teachers–to care about children!! That we teachers are then attacked online when our lives are taken, simply for being teachers is unbelievable. How have we become so inhumane and hate-filled…
lack of sky cake, that’s how.
Google Patton Oswalt. . . “sky cake.”
Anything involving a gun death or even the suggestion that we reduce violence in our country seems to ignite the right wing gun control deniers and conspiracy doomsday preppers. The article was about teachers but seemed to be reduced to “you want to take my guns away”. The apocalyptic doomsday, tea party, Fox news watchers, who troll the internet searching for even the slightest hint of a suggestion that we reduce the anarchy plaguing our society, swarm like bees to honey to quell any logical discussion. They are probably searching Google right now for the words “violence” and “gun” so they can copy and paste their inane chicken or egg gun violence arguments into the comments boxes. It is a very vocal minority that overwhelms the large majority of Americans who want common sense to prevail. We have become a country where the loudest minority seems to rule and democracy is an inconvenience that prevents “intelligent” people from imposing their opinions on the ignorant majority who don’t know what is good for them.
BTW Diane. You were fantastic on the Daily Show last night!
I can’t read the comments sections of American newspapers anymore either, due to all the hatred spewed at teachers these days, but I was surprised that’s occurring in the Guardian, a UK paper. I think we can thank the same major players in the US for infecting perceptions of teachers in England, since Michelle Rhee went over there to spread her pet policies and venom, as British unions and teachers are now facing the same calls for VAM etc by their politicians as here.
How sad. Attacks on teachers and the profession are feeding into the minds of resentful adults and permission to follow suit is likely to trickle down to disturbed children who have easy access to weapons.
There should be a statute of limitations on how long you can blame your teachers and your parents for everything that went wrong with your life, say by the time you reach age thirty.
“There should be a statute of limitations on how long you can blame your teachers and your parents for everything that went wrong with your life, say by the time you reach age thirty.”
Boy, do I relate to that! I still remember sitting with my mother absolving her of all responsibility for any stupid things I did or said. I think it took several children for me to get it through my thick head. 🙂
Thank you, Dr. Ravitch, for being a consistent voice in support of teachers. People who haven’t taught have no idea how demanding the job is, especially in this time of capricious evaluations and top-down approaches that steal away teachers’ autonomy. Most teachers I know went into the profession because a) they love their subject and b) they care deeply about kids and c) they want to contribute. Most work very, very hard. Theodore Roosevelt famously said that if you want a job done well, find someone who knows how to do it and get the hell out of the way. Politicians, pundits, educrats, and plutocrats need to get the hell out of teachers’ way. And importantly, they need to make a LOT more time in teachers’ schedules for them to collaborate with their colleagues and to submit their own practice to scrutiny via something like regular Japanese Lesson Study. If that were done, teachers would rise to the occasion. I know that they would. As the miracles in improvement in quality and productivity in Japanese manufacturing showed us, continuous improvement comes from the bottom up, not from the top down, and it happens when workers on the line are empowered, when they are given autonomy, respect, and the time that is needed to do their jobs mindfully. Teachers need reduced class sizes and reduced schedules so that they can have the time to recoup and reflect and collaborate. We’ve been going in the opposite direction. It’s time to stop the teacher bashing and to give teachers what they need, which isn’t goons in their classrooms enforcing top-down mandates and one-size-fits-all methods. There are many, many ways to be a great teacher, and those ways can’t be made into a checklist.
Robert, since you (I think) have a little more experience than I do and recall facts in education history a little quicker than I do (based on what I’ve read in your comments), can you identify any specific actions on the part of teachers, collectively, in the last 50 years that would have contributed to the resentment now being unleashed? (I personally feel that a lot of it has to do with the desperation of the economy and that when society’s morale is low they need a scapegoat). But some business folks I talk to, when I ask about unions (something I know very little about) they’ll start spewing off stuff about the auto industry and how workers were paid $60K to stay home and that pensions bankrupted the industry, etc. But are there any similar instances in the history of teachers’ unions? Why the venom?
Joanna, ever since the Nation at Risk report, we’ve had a reform narrative in this country that begins with the premise that our schools are failing (despite the fact that when one corrects for the socioeconomic level of students taking the international tests on which this claim is based, our students consistently perform at the top or very near the top). Then, the Gates Foundation decided that the “problem” was teacher quality and not having metrics in place to drive improvement in teacher quality. They made this decision based on lousy research that used invalid test scores as the determinant of outcomes.
So, the simple-minded, one-liner for insertion into politicians’ speeches became, “Our schools are failing, and this is because we have lousy teachers.”
This narrative appeals to a lot of authoritarian types on both the left and the right–to all folks who are fond of hierarchies and top-down mandates.
What did the unions do to contribute to the teacher bashing? Well, the two main costs of education are facilities and teacher pay and benefits, and the teachers’ unions negotiate the latter. So, folks on the right who want to control costs–to keep wages and benefits down–and who believe the reform narrative think that the unions have pushed up pay and benefits unnaturally at the very time when teacher quality and educational outcomes have taken a nosedive.
There are three-and-a-half million public school teachers in the U.S. As Jon Stewart pointed out during an interview with Dr. Ravitch, in any profession–fast food customer service–there are going to be some incompetents and some jerks. But the basic current reform narrative–that our schools have failed in general and that teacher quality is, in general, to blame is wrong on both counts.
Can our schools be improved? Can teacher quality be improved? Of course. But here’s the rub: you get what you pay for. If we really want to improve teacher quality, then we have to pay teachers more, we have to raise barriers to entry to the profession, and we need to give teachers lighter loads so that they can do the careful planning, the collaboration, and the mindful self-examination the lead to continuous improvement. And we have to give them more autonomy, for people perform best in conditions of autonomy, which is something that the deformers do not understand AT ALL.
Robert, Bernie, Wise: but if a person, when asked about Teacher’s Unions, starts ranting about Auto Unions, they are redirecting the conversation, yes? Is there a correlation in terms of the history of each?
Joanna:
I am not sure I understand the context of your comment/question. Who is ranting?
I agree we may have drifted off the topic of the nature and prevalence of teacher bashing, and for my part in it, I apologize.
On the other hand nobody seems to be interested in the fact that as far as I can tell Jake Miller’s claim of teacher bashing in response to his article is virtually non-existent.
Bernie–My initial question indicated that when I ask business people about unions they rant, or rather I used the word “spew off,” stuff about the auto industry. So I was taking the point back to my original question (above. . .did you not read it before you joined the conversation?).
Lighten up, Francis. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6cxNR9ML8k
🙂
Joanna:
I am sorry, I did miss your earlier question. Try this for some information behind the attitudes you heard:
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB122809320261867867
The issues between US Management and Unions is a chicken and egg type of issue. It is very hard to overcome historical animosities and the distrust that followed.. As I mentioned my Dad worked for Ford. He voted Labour his entire life. However, he had little time for UK auto unions based on his experience. He helped start a plant in a very depressed area near Liverpool (Halewood). The plant was plagued by strikes, absenteeism, drunkenness, theft, vandalism and poor quality – leading to the old story about never buy a car made on a Monday or a Friday. He knew the story was more than apocryphal because he was responsible for analyzing the quality and warranty data. My dad came from Liverpool and his dad was a dock worker. It made him angry that a real opportunity for economic progress was frittered away. After almost 20 years of misery, fortunately, things did get better once the Unions began to see the realities of global competition and after a threat to close the plant entirely.
As far as I can tell, this is a pretty good recounting of the story:
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB122809320261867867
Joanna:
Part 1:
I am sorry, I did miss your earlier question. Try this for some information behind the attitudes you heard:
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB122809320261867867
Joanna:
Part 2
The issues between US Management and Unions is a chicken and egg type of issue. It is very hard to overcome historical animosities and the distrust that followed.. As I mentioned my Dad worked for Ford. He voted Labour his entire life. However, he had little time for UK auto unions based on his experience. He helped start a plant in a very depressed area near Liverpool (Halewood). The plant was plagued by strikes, absenteeism, drunkenness, theft, vandalism and poor quality – leading to the old story about never buy a car made on a Monday or a Friday. He knew the story was more than apocryphal because he was responsible for analyzing the quality and warranty data. My dad came from Liverpool and his dad was a dock worker. It made him angry that a real opportunity for economic progress was frittered away. After almost 20 years of misery, fortunately, things did get better once the Unions began to see the realities of global competition and after a threat to close the plant entirely.
As far as I can tell, this is a pretty good recounting of the story from a more liberal newspaper:
Bernie–
Thank you. I will check out both links. I appreciate you taking the time to help me get a better grasp of these subjects.
Joanna:
You are welcome. One additional anecdote. I was at University in the late 60s. In the UK there were some very radical groups that included students. I recall two very, very bright but odd guys getting First Class degrees from my College and going to work on the factory floor at the Halewood Plant with the expressed intent of engaging in Trotskyite Revolutionary activities. This was serious business. Paris was in fact burning.
Japanese industries followed Deming’s management style and both their workers and the quality of their products are better off for it, while US industries did not listen to this insightful American.
Businesses typically detest and scapegoat unions because the higher wages unions assure cut into profits, but the US auto industry did not fail due to unions. It failed because US automakers didn’t adequately respond to consumer demands for more small cars and better fuel consumption, while the Japanese auto industry did.
That is way too simplistic an analysis of the automotive industry. The decline had little to do with small cars and more to do with entry level price and quality. Quality was and remains an important competitive element. The Japanese led quality revolution has been crucial in changing expectations with regards to Management and Union expectations.
The reality is that Japanese car-makers here in the US want to avoid American Unions and have done so.
Click to access Unionization_at_Japanese_transplants_in_the_US-Japan_Times_2007.pdf
There’s no question that benefits costs were a big drag on the competitiveness of U.S. automakers. BUT, years ago, when I was a lad, a sat one evening with a group of GM execs, one of whom was an Executive Vice President. He explained to me that his company was not in the auto business, that it was in the parts business. If that’s your view, and if you have enormous (and seemingly secure) market share, then you are not going to emphasize quality.
Robert:
My dad worked for Ford in the UK for 30 plus years. Though far from an executive, he was in the warranty/quality side of the business and helped set up plants around the UK and Europe. The replacement parts business is a lucrative business but it is not a core business for auto-makers.
GM Delco and Delphi were huge parts business – but that does not mean that their primary business was replacement parts. They made the small bits that go into every car. They were captive producers, a part of the backwards integration beloved of US car makers. The Japanese came along with more reliable and cheaper parts, initially for low value parts and later for the expensive bits. Delco and Delphi were in decline and now are shadows of what they once were in the US though through global partnerships and off-shore non-union production, they are still important players..
I was referring to the major collapse of the US auto industry which occurred in the 70s and 80s, not what precipitated the government bail out a few years ago.
Elder Wise:
In neither case was it small cars per se. Honda’s and Toyota’s rankings were and are based on quality and, therefore, total cost of ownership propositions. GM struggled with matching this across the full line. Ford has had less of a problem after shedding the awful Pinto. It just so happened that Honda and Toyota started at the low end as have later Korean competitors. They quickly moved to produce full ranges using the same proposition and manufacturing methods.
I have had 3 Honda Accords – 170K, 205K and 195K. No maintenance expenses except for oil and tires. To be fair our experience with Jeeps has also been good. GM Suburban when we had 3 young kids – not good. I still remember the 50 cent bushing that came loose and screwed up the 4 wheel drive and cost $700 to fix.
Did you live in America then? As I stated, people wanted cars with better gas consumption, which in the 70s and 80s, was due to the energy crisis, related to dependence on Middle East oil, and costs, as well as growing awareness of environmental issues. Detroit was still rolling out a lot of boat sized cars then and people wanted more smaller choices. Americans I knew then marveled at the smaller cars shown in foreign films and TV shows, and virtually all of them seized the opportunity to buy a Honda etc., because they were smaller and had better mileage.
A lot of Americans feared tiny cars though, like the size of today’s Mini Cooper or smaller, because Detroit continued to sell the large cars and people had safety concerns around crashes with them, as well as concerns regarding the limitations in transporting families.
At any rate, here’s an interesting take on the auto industry today, “The Unions Didn’t Bankrupt Detroit, But Great American Cars Did” http://www.forbes.com/sites/johntamny/2013/07/21/the-unions-didnt-bankrupt-detroit-but-great-american-cars-did/
Elder:
I was here from the early 70s. My wife to be had a VW Bug and then a Rabbit. I was a poor student so I had neither.
I do recall the big push around mpg, etc. And It is certainly true that foreign cars generally got better mileage – not the Bug, though – and this undoubtedly enabled them to gain a foothold and have the time to build a dealer network. But in the long run total cost of ownership advertised as reliability was the winning value proposition.
Bernie, you miss the point. The loss of our auto industry was blamed on our public schools. That was absurd. They did not make short sighted decisions. The leaders of the auto industry did.
Diane:
It is absurd. Who says that? I apologize if I missed it in this string. I still cannot see it in this string. I have not heard it elsewhere. In the following article they certainly compare the very weak technical training in the UK to the modified apprentice like technical training in Germany but that is something else.
“Until the energy shocks of the 1970s opened the U.S. market to foreign automakers by spurring consumer interest in small fuel-efficient cars, General Motors, Ford, and Chrysler sold nearly 9 out of every 10 new vehicles on the American road.” (Train & Winston, 2007, p. 1469)
“Industry analysts stress that it is important for automakers to develop attractive product lines that anticipate and respond quickly to changes in consumer preferences. General Motors, for example, has offered an assortment of vehicles that missed major trends such as the growth in the small-car market in the late 1970s and early 1980s…” (Train & Winston, 2007, p. 1473)
Train, K.E. & Winston, C. (2007). Vehicle Choice Behavior and the Declining Market Share of U.S. Automakers. International Economic Review 48(4). http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/research/files/papers/2007/11/us%20automakers%20winston/11_us_automakers_winston.pdf
Robert,
Thanks so much for your unending support of teachers and your always “right on target”, clear comments. After several years of working in corporate America, I went to the profession of my original passion and became a teacher to teach business electives. I, too, like many others, taught for your a, b, c reasons listed above. I was creative, and “worked very, very hard”, and the students really enjoyed my classes. I knew what students needed to know for success. Sadly, because of all the points of discussion regarding the teacher needs you’ve listed as well as the “gotcha” mentality that pervades education from top-down management techniques and the results of Common Core, I left the profession last spring. I miss it greatly! Until finding you, Diane, and others on Diane’s blog, I felt totally alone and actually thought that something was wrong with ME! Because of your work, along with Diane and others, I hope to see our public schools restored in the near future so that I can return to the career that I dearly love. Thanks again for your supportive, clear, common-sense comments!
I love this response. It is so true. But there is this dichotomy of the push me-pull me that is really happening. I do understand the top down mandates and the bottom up needs. Our high school teachers lost a planning period due to budget. Teachers with 150+ students, three and four preps, and new standards to work with (I know how you feel about them! So just work with me here.). It is overwhelming. That time to connect with students has been deeply cut. More and more students are slipping through the cracks and we might not be aware that there are even warning signs.
e
Diane:
There are 353 comments on this story in the Guardian. I am not sure how many separate commenters there were but there are a total of 6 comments that are critical of teachers – four of which are from the same person. They received very little endorsement from other readers. Much of the commentary rapidly descends in to arguments about gun control and the nature of American culture.
I am not saying that teacher bashing does not take place, it does but not in this article. On the other hand, I continue to be astonished at the lack of precision and critical thinking evidenced by many. Perhaps the author of the article can provide examples of what he means and a count.
Here are the comments:
1. Teachers only care about their money and their rights. They wanted to pass obamacare and now want to exclude themselves from it! They also lowered the bar for who gets to work with kids and kids being raped by teachers has increased due to it. We are sick of unions. Unions were great but in a global marketplace, they get in the way. Just like socialism. 0
2. There are few professions for which the average American feels more contempt than educators, so to answer the title question: All of them, maybe? 2
3. For every well meaning, decent teacher like Mr. Miller I have interacted with through our local school system, I have met 5 utterly useless slacker teachers who, frankly put, couldn’t teach their way out of a paper bag. And I think I am being generous with the ratio here. If the unions spent more time uping the ante on the quality of teachers they project instead of providing cover for people who in any other industry would have been fired eons ago, our education system would be better, and likely safer, than it is today. And that has nothing to do with guns or box cutters. 2
a. Ah. And then there’s that 3-4 months off thing they have going for them. Pulease. You can make arguments in favor of our current crop of teachers, but don’t make the argument that they are working all that hard. When you have an entire quarter of the year off, you have no right to complain about hours worked. Question, when is the column going to come out about the number of teachers killed in car accidents on the way to work each year. My guess is that number dwarf the number who are killed by students. Are we to outlaw cars next? 4
b. I’m from Georgia, ground zero of the hoards of teachers who “correct” exams for their students. You know, the one’s who cheated their students out of their educations so that their schools can get their bonuses. Forgive me for being a bit skeptical of the profession. I’ve seen first hand how “professional” it can be. Funnily enough, I have family members who are teachers. And yes, they DO take months of the year off and do nothing. So kudos to you. You are one of the productive teachers. But as I said, for every one of you (and I will happily put you in that category even though I know nothing about you), there are 5 who are useless as breasts on a bull 3
c. There are many such anti-teacher comments on here, one of which certainly borders on hate speech
You must be one of those teachers who is pushing the PC claptrap on our kids. Get over yourself. Criticizing teachers isn’t hate speech. It is healthy in a free society to criticize the teachers of our future leaders. Their industry is in shambles and they hold much of the responsibility.
For the record, I would not ban any of the statements on a blog – though Diane has a right to do so. I would simply answer them with facts.
For the record, I would not ban any of the statements on a blog.
Hmm?
Hope Mr. miller reads your book.
I’m a teacher at one of Manhattan’s leading high schools, and I’ve just returned from lunch to learn that one of our science teachers–with eighteen years in the profession–abruptly resigned. She’d had enough, I gather, of disrespectful students and openly contemptuous administrators. This is a woman with children, so that ought to say all that needs to be said about how bad things have gotten here.
The only thing I have to add to this sad story is that I have, since the school year began, considered doing the same thing myself. While I am appointed as a special education (and hold a license in that area, obviously) teacher, I also hold professional licenses in social studies and English.
When I think of how to describe the people currently in charge not only of the New York City Department of Education, but this institution as well (which I will not name, because, like so many other teachers in this bureaucracy–and what does this say about civil values and engagement?–I fear reprisal from the vindictive and frankly none-too-bright administrators under whom I serve), I can only go, poetically, back to the Greeks: this is a kakistocracy, a government of the worst and least capable.
Herman, don’t quit. Under de Blasio, there will be new people, new policies, new ideas.
Diane:
Is something missing?
Herman:
It sounds like you are in a tough situation.
In principle, bad leadership is bad leadership. It is hard for me to see a link between poor leadership and any particular set of educational principles or philosophy. In such situations the late Alan Hirschman identified three options: Exit, Voice and Loyalty. In the situation you describe, Voice seems to be needed if anything is going to change for the better. Voice always requires the acceptance of negative consequences and it also requires far more skills and capabilities than does Exit and Loyalty.
Teaching as in any profession has people who love and do their job well and people who are just getting by. Having worked in both worlds, office and school, I find MOST teachers are in it because they love and MOST offices workers are just doing it to make money…often absolutely hating their job. I don’t know one teacher who truly hates their job.
Cary:
You might not believe it by much that is written here but recent survey data suggests that you are right about teachers – but they are not really different from other professionals – in or out of offices.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/161324/physicians-lead-wellbeing-transportation-workers-lag.aspx?utm_source=tagrss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=syndication
I remember a time when teachers were respected, when it was a joy to teach.
Lately professor Gates had a TV program on African Americans. Enlightening.
Slavery is not where you get the best out of people and in the long run is actually fiscally not as productive.
Fascism, forcing people – teachers – into prescribed methodology, to teach “facts” as understood by politicians, is counterproductive.
For several years our school system believed in the efficacy of democratic principles. Teachers examined their own work. They were encouraged to tape their classes and to evaluate THEMSELVES. Teachers viewed their own work, and usually could see where improvement could be made, especially when a professional library was available for their use when they chose to use it.
Administrators were mentors who helped teachers build on their own individual strengths. We felt that that was the way to improve education. to help teachers in becoming better teachers, not in forcing them into politically prescribed methodology and standing over them with a gun to their heads.
I do not understand, having been educated to believe in the efficacy of democratic principles, what has happened in the U. S. to propagandize that a top down approach – fascism – in my book – is a superior methodology.
Yet too many people, too many school boards have bought into that idea.
How would these people people feel if they were evaluated by those who after studying for a minimum of 4 years, spending thousands of dollars to acquire the skills to do their job if they were put under the microscope by people who are not even required to have a high school education, had never studied anything of the things required for them to do their job and had never spent one day trying to do what they have to do.
It is insane.
Gordon:
Misusing terms leads to a loss of meaning and impact. You are not describing fascism but poor management practices. Is the Affordable Care Act fascism?
In my experience, It’s kind of risky to publish an essay or article on the mainstream news media websites, since there are a lot of online stalkers, trolls, and bashers who like to trash commenters and writers for sport. Haters got to hate because that’s their only claim to fame for restoring their identity as “loser.”
Ken:
There were at most 6 comments critical of teachers out of 353. There were no “haters” of teachers – though 3 said critical things.
@ bernie1815
That’s good. But I don’t know if people can spend time reading +350 comments (I can’t), though. It’s kind of like receiving a swamp of junk mails in your mailbox, and picking a handful of those that are really important to you.
One thing I can say is that many of those posters appearing in the news website are not necessarily teachers or school administrators. They could be anyone who wants to make whatever thoughts or ideas they express.
Ken:
Diane said that Jake Miller indicated that “(h)e was stunned by the tone of the comments that came from many who read his article. They were vicious and anti-teacher. He couldn’t understand it. Why so much anti-teacher sentiment?
I listed all that I saw that had an anti-teacher sentiment. It took me 15 minutes to read through the comments.
He said he read the comments. I asked him for examples and a count – in case he had posted the article somewhere else than the Guardian. Nothing. What is a person to think?
In doing analysis of comments in large-scale surveys, I used to warn my folks to always recognize that out of every 100 comments you will get 1 or 2 outrageous ones and that you should not over-react to them and certainly not generalize.
If Jake was looking for haters I am sure he could find a couple – it is called Confirmation Bias.
Bernie,
I have written many posts on Huffington and elsewhere that elicited large numbers of teacher-hating comments. This is real, not imaginary.
He’s not likely to acknowledge it any more than he could acknowledge that he was off the mark regarding Detroit and small cars when presented with evidence that “General Motors…MISSED MAJOR TRENDS SUCH AS THE GROWTH IN THE SMALL-CAR MARKET in the late 1970s and early 1980s…”
Personally, I think he was lucky that you did not delete the six teacher hate comments that he posted right here in defiance of your warning that you delete them in your original post.
Not a Public School Teacher:
What are you talking about? I did not deny that Detroit missed the demand for smaller cars, I pointed out that it was more complex and involved issues of quality and reliability and consequently cost of ownership. You, Elder and others are free to disagree.
As to the
“Personally, I think he was lucky that you did not delete the six teacher hate comments that he posted right here in defiance of your warning that you delete them in your original post.”
I see them as evidence to support my assertion that the “hateful” comments were limited in number and substance.
@bernie1815
The article was bombarded with 353 comments written by anyone else. We certainly have no idea about online posters whatsoever because they can hide their real identities under an alias. Just because you find very small amount of data which you successfully detect as ‘hateful’ out of 353 given samples does not necessarily mean most posters are essentially sympathetic to a writer(or teachers in general). Most of posters appearing in any online news website are typically serving as bystanders who stop over at a website and leave whatever comments they want for their purposes. Haters and trolls are hiding among those, and they do whatever they want–i.e., pretend to be a neutral bystander or a sympathizer– to please themselves, because they surf through the net, go elsewhere to play the game for sports.
You wanna call it confirmation bias? Fine. But, your assumption is far from the exception to that.
Ken:
Of course I cannot discount any of those alternatives, but they are not relevant to the issue at hand. The reality is Jake said that I><"he was stunned by the tone of the comments that came from many who read his article. They were vicious and anti-teacher. Do you agree that the accuracy of the statement can be assessed by reviewing the comments, assuming that it references the comments on the Guardian article?
@bernie1815
I don’t know what you are trying to do. You are generally saying, what Jake Miller says is not really accurate–or bit exaggerated, if not bigoted, because you found a very small number of hate messages among 353 samples. Well, I don’t know how many samples can be considered “many” in general. We will have a different interpretation on that.
But, most importantly, it is the tone of language that matters most. All six comments you give as quote are–without a doubt, vicious and disgusting. Such argument as “teachers are pro-Democrats or wanting Obamacare” is absolutely nonsensical, and, hence, worthy of red flag. If you have six of such bigoted comments catching your attention, I would say that’s a lot that should be thrown into a spam bucket. I am not a teacher, but I would not tolerate anyone who attempts to make such a bogus ‘bad-teacher’ sophistry for fun.
You want to argue that your analysis and assessment on comments are accurate!? That’s fine. However, you are not in a position to take swipes at him or anyone else here because of that.
It seems to me that “a very small number” and “many” are usually considered to be different levels of relative frequency. My students, for example, might object if they had “a very small number” of errors on some work yet I evaluated it as being the same quality as work that had “many” errors.
Just as suspected, Bernie. You said, “The decline had little to do with small cars and more to do with entry level price and quality” and “In neither case was it small cars per se.”
Elder was exactly right that it was small cars which the US auto industry missed the boat on. Many of us clearly recall when that happened and the article posted by Elder provided evidence of how Detroit missed out on the small car market because they failed to predict and respond to consumer preferences.
By the 70s, American’s had been buying shlock chotchkes marked “Made in Japan” for decades and many folks were reluctant to buy high ticket items. We did not know about the quality of Japanese cars until after the Japanese auto industry built a reputation in America, so it was a gamble at first.
It was not necessary to post the teacher hate messages here after Diane expressed her feelings about them.
The teachers in the Buffalo Public Schools have not had a raise in ten years. Although we still have increments, it takes twenty seven years to reach the top step. For many of us it took thirty years because there was a three year wage freeze. There are also ten years when each step is a two year increment.
Any complaints, especially during the freeze, fell on deaf ears. The public did not want to hear it – they thought we made too much money. The way people talked, they indicated that teachers with Masters Degrees should be earning what the average Buffalonian earned (a little above minimum wage). They indicated the private sector hadn’t gotten raises so why should teachers. (Both my daughters worked for the private sector and their wages were higher than a teacher’s salary and they got a 3% raise each year plus a bonus).
The affluent suburban teachers earn almost $20,000 more a year than a Buffalo teacher. Are they better teachers because their students do better on tests than those in the inner city? Let them walk a day in our shoes.
The public doesn’t care. Teachers earn more than they do for a job which many think is glorified babysitting. So, don’t be surprised about teacher bashing – it’s an ugly truth.
I think that there is a difference in perception here. When most folks say that they have not received a raise, they mean that they are paid as much this year as they were paid last year.