John Wilson explains on his blog on Education Week why states and districts should NOT contract with Teach for America.
He writes:
“Lately, I have been reading numbers of articles about Teach For America (TFA) written by former participants in the program as well as by researchers and investigative reporters. It appears that there is general consensus that TFA is not the answer to teacher shortages, closing achievement gaps, or eliminating poverty in this country. Most of the writers agree that the program is using public schools and poor children to develop a network of new leaders who will advance a corporate reform agenda. Great harm has been done in school districts and states where these new TFA leaders have emerged. Who bears the greatest portion of responsibility for what is happening?”
The young people are idealistic and eager to be of service to children and society. But recently there has been a startling number of admissions by former TFA that they were woefully unprepared for the challenges of teaching by their five weeks of training. Nonetheless, through their skillful networking, Congress dubbed them “highly qualified,” so these inexperienced newcomers could be placed in the classrooms of the nation’s neediest children. This serves the expansionist goals of the organization, but does a terrible disservice to the children, who actually need Highly Qualified Teachers, not newcomers.
Not only are they not “highly qualified teachers,” but the orgaization’s repeated claim that newcomers with little training are even better than experienced professionals weakens the very idea of professionalism.
Who would go to a doctor or lawyer or engineer who had “trained” for only five weeks
Diane Ravitch's blog 
Why do parents that homeschool their children overwhelmingly succeed with no education degree and no previous student teaching?
Why do Amish school teachers educating in 1-room school houses, teaching all students K-8 at the same time, in classrooms with no technology other than a chalkboard, with textbooks that are often decades old, manage to educate their K-8 students to above average levels of proficiency in reading and math with no education degree and no previous student teaching?
Why would we expect education majors holding a B.A./M.A. that grew up in middle/upper class neighborhoods, attended college in middle/upper class neighborhoods, and have done their student teaching exclusively in middle/upper class neighborhoods to be well prepared to teach in impoverished neighborhood public schools?
Reading the multitudes of TFA alum confessionals, I’m convinced that a significant percentage feel various levels of preparedness to teach in these classrooms. I’m a little less convinced that holding a formal education degree, passing the Praxis I and Praxis II, being state certified, etc. are necessary ingredients to make a good teacher. Assuming you possess the content knowledge, can it be that the only real way to learn to teach in such a unique environment as an impoverished public school is to actually cut your teeth by teaching for 2-4 years and learning what works?
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What’s your source that homeschooling parents do as well as or better than public school? What’s your source about the Amish? I grew up in Amish country and my sense was that their education was very no frills. They were taught as much as they would need to run or be employed at a farm, furniture business, bakery, or other similar occupation and no more. Yes, their basic reading and basic math may in some ways be “above average”, but that would be because they’ve focused on nothing else (besides religion, of course) – no science, social studies, foreign language, arts, etc. Doesn’t sound like much of a way to live to me.
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A home school link:
http://www.hslda.org/docs/study/ray2009/
A few Amish links:
http://web.missouri.edu/~hartmanj/rs150/papers/hornish.html
http://www2.etown.edu/amishstudies/Education.asp
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“The results support the large existing body of research on homeschool academic achievement and show homeschoolers, on average, scoring 37 percentile points above public school students on standardized achievement tests.”
http://www.hslda.org/docs/study/ray2009/
“Over the years, studies of academic achievement have found that Amish schoolchildren often fared better on standardized tests than their public school counterparts.”
http://web.missouri.edu/~hartmanj/rs150/papers/hornish.html
http://www2.etown.edu/amishstudies/Education.asp
“In the past, when comparing standardized test scores of Amish students, the Amish have performed above the national average for rural public school pupils in spelling, word usage, and arithmetic. They performed below the national average, however, in vocabulary.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amish_life_in_the_modern_world
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“research on homeschoolers is incredibly spotty, and what exists is mostly done by homeschooling advocates”
It’s far from being a panacea for every homeschooled child. See “The Sinister Side of Homeschooling” http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/09/20/the-sinister-side-of-home-schooling.html
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I think it’s problematic and, frankly, ethically bankrupt to suggest that
“Assuming you possess the content knowledge, can it be that the only real way to learn to teach in such a unique environment as an impoverished public school is to actually cut your teeth by teaching for 2-4 years and learning what works?”
It never ceases to amaze me that people are comfortable with exposing the most needy among us to this kind of harmful drivel. How would your tune change if we were having a conversation not about the children of impoverished black and brown people whose day-to-day experiences are likely as distant from yours as those of someone living oh, say, in China, but your precious darlings instead?
Perhaps new teachers should cut their teeth on the population that can best afford to absorb their inevitable barrage of mistakes and misfires, that is, white suburban children from middle and upper middle class families. While such a start is unlikely to fully prepare teachers for the social realities of inner city teaching, it would certainly go a long way to ensuring the highly theoretical pedagogy most ed students (alt cert or otherwise) are inundated with has had met the pragmatic reality of day-to-day life in a classroom. It would ensure that, at the very least, such teachers had the real time practical skills necessary to teach effectively before they stepped into the classrooms of our neediest students.
Imagine, for a moment, if instead of learning to teach (by dint of doing it independently for the first time, irrespective of the education you’ve received) these teachers (TFA or otherwise) had already spent a few years working out their new teacher inanities on suburban kids and had a solid foundation for teaching in place and only needed to deal with the social aspects of inner city teaching. I suspect we’d see a much higher success rate overall.
The problem of course, is that while white and/or affluent parents are more than happy to assign new, ill-prepared (again, TFA or otherwise teacher preparation in this country is largely a joke, which is why TFA gets away with as much as it does) teachers to other people’s children, they would never dream of volunteering their own for such an immoral experiment. Here’s an excellent rule of thumb to follow ladies and gentlemen, don’t consign other people’s children to a hell you wouldn’t visit upon your own.
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“Assuming you possess the content knowledge, can it be that the only real way to learn to teach in such a unique environment as an impoverished public school is to actually cut your teeth by teaching for 2-4 years and learning what works?”
No.
I have taught for many years in this type of school. The children don’t really have the time to wait while the newbie ” figures it out” for several years. And just content won’t cut it.
We do have several good programs ( yes, with local university’s of education) to place prospective teachers with master teachers so they can learn and decide if this is for them . Some programs place the prospective teacher for an entire school year, with a stipend so they do not have to work another job.
There are things that work.
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Although you’re correct that there are some teacher education programs that are located close enough to poor urban or rural settings to allow exposure to this environment during student teaching, that’s often not the norm. And you’re correct that there are M.A and Ed.d. programs with a slant towards urban education. But from a strictly volume perspective, there will always be a percentage of new teachers that will be “newbies” needing to “figure it out” that have zero exposure to this environment — even if they’ve come from traditional teacher colleges.
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Teacher Ed programs in my urban area have long required clinical experiences in urban schools and many have had longstanding partnerships with specific schools.
Time to use the extinction approach on bloviating buffoons who don’t know jack.
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The clinical experience of teacher ed programs is much more than 5 weeks then wing it.
Even the most basic “student teacher” experiences involve a one semester placement in a real school under a real teacher with real students. All the while under the watchful eye of the master teacher, the administration on the school AND the university.
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Cosmic Tinkerer — “Teacher Ed programs in my urban area have long required clinical experiences in urban schools.”
That’s great for the Teacher Ed programs in your urban area. A lot of Teacher Ed programs aren’t near a severely impoverished urban or rural area, and can’t possibly the replicate the severe dysfunction that would be experienced in Baltimore, D.C., Detroit, East St. Louis, etc. There are hundreds of Teacher Ed programs that crank out thousands of teachers each year with no such access to clinical experiences in highly impoverished urban or rural settings. I’m not convinced that these new Teacher Ed graduates would perform better than new TFA teachers. They’re both stepping foot into somewhat unknown territory.
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“Who would go to a doctor or lawyer or engineer who had “trained” for only five weeks”
Probably no one, but that’s because we have actual evidence that those professions learn something in their professional training that equips them to be better performers, whereas we have no evidence that traditional teacher training is very much better than TFA, if at all (in fact, some studies say TFA is better).
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“…in fact, some studies say TFA is better….”
Such as?
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Use Google. These have all been discussed before.
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Oh, you mean the ones that have already been debunked here.
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“Use google”?
Really?
Look, if you have some studies to put forward, do so.
TFA has been successful at studying TFA and finding it excellent, of course. If you have something else, do let us know.
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The Mathematica studies that have been supposedly “debunked” are of far higher quality than anything else on TFA. In any event, there are zero (0) studies that even pretend to show that regular teachers are much better than TFA — the most that even the devout education school worshipper can say is that one or two of the lower quality studies suggest that regular teachers are a teensy bit better.
All of which suggests either that 1) 5 weeks is just about good enough, or 2) regular ed school is a waste of time. Either way, you wouldn’t find such equivocal-at-best evidence in the professions that Diane mentions.
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WT, I assume you mean that education is not a profession and five weeks of training is good enough. You want lower standards for those who teach, especially those who teach the poorest, neediest kids.
Why do elite private schools boast about their experienced teachers? Are they wrong? Why aren’t they clamoring to get those TFA teachers?
What you are really saying is that five weeks is all it takes to do test prep.
And apparently that’s all you expect of a teacher.
Some people have other ideas about the nature of teaching.
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” Why aren’t they clamoring to get those TFA teachers?”
An excellent question by our hostess.
If TFAers are the super, ultra, bomb, wouldn’t all the elite schools insist on having them? Wouldn’t they pay big bucks to attract 22 year olds right out of college, and let them teach subjects they didn’t even major in?
But they don’t .
Humm.
Can’t quite put my finger on it.
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What I’m saying is that there’s no room for anyone to get on their high horse about TFA’s training — if TFA’s training is so much worse, how come traditional ed schools aren’t blowing it out of the water in every possible way? Forget about test scores: If you have any valid studies or measures other than test scores that show traditional ed school graduates blowing TFA out of the water, please do tell.
But I do NOT say 5 weeks is good enough — I say the evidence shows that 5 weeks is just about as good (maybe a tiny bit worse, maybe a tiny bit better) as 4 years of education school, which ITSELF is crappy. It’s all crappy, traditional ed school and TFA.
Physician, cure thyself first. Start figuring out how to train teachers in a competent way, and then one will be in a position to criticize TFA.
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Sorry, I guess I posted this in the wrong place:
Have you seen the “The Masters Degree Effect?”
http://www.edweek.org/tsb/articles/2012/02/29/02effect.h05.html
From the U.S. Department of Education, Institute of Education Sciences, National Center for Education Statistics, National Assessment of Educational Progress, various years, 2005-2011 reading assessments.
The US DoE has this info and charts on their website, along with similar ones regarding Math, but I don’t have time to look for that now.
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I was in three Teacher Education programs at three different colleges and none of them were anywhere near “crappy.” I learned a lot from my studies, from my professors and from my clinical experiences, and I worked very hard in each program. I have always felt that I received an excellent education that equipped me to be an effective educator.
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Probably an assumption based on the Gates, Broad, Walton funded NCTQ, which made determinations from looking at papers, not visiting actual colleges or scientific research –whose advisory board consists of people like TFA’s own Wendy Kopp: http://deutsch29.wordpress.com/2013/02/20/part-xvii-grading-the-nctq-advisory-board/
Diane’s book seems to have attracted a lot more mean-spirited know-it-all corporate “reform” trolls than usual around here lately.
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This is one of the things I like about Diane’s blog – it’s open to different opinions, as long as those opinions are respectful. I hope we continue to see a more diverse set of voices responding to Diane’s blogs – these conversations are important to have.
It’s too bad that you call those who disagree with you “trolls.” Insulting someone you disagree with is one of the fastest ways to make yourself look bad.
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Thanks, Serge. I don’t delete anyone’s comments unless they contain vulgarities, or are gratuitously vituperative towards another commenter, or insult me personally. There are plenty of other blogs where people can do those things. Not here. Dissenting opinions are welcome.
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“troll
One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument”
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=troll
People who come here and tell teachers that anyone could do their jobs with just 5 weeks of training and no experience and that their years of formal preparation was “a waste of time” are being purposely provocative and fit the definition of trolls. Insulting people is the handiwork of the troll, not those who call them out on it.
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Having worked with many teachers over the years—a very diverse lot in every sense—I find it difficult to take seriously anyone who claims that the TFA five-week training [criticized by many TFAers themselves!] is the equivalent of much more extended training, experience and education.
And with all due respect for studies—and I know something about advanced degrees and original research—I refuse to discount my own experiences and observations in classrooms.
As for keeping this website both open and civil: Diane’s ‘Rules of the Road’ on this blog are eminently reasonable and she has exercised good judgment and a great deal of patience in making this a popular destination on the net. However, just speaking as an individual, I take a dim view of proof by assertion.
Just my dos centavitos worth…
🙂
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OK, fine. People can defend themselves. I don’t need any more of this stress. I’m outta here.
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You’re definition of a troll seems to equate with people who don’t share your narrow viewpoints, which in your own mind are absolutely black and white. No grey. No nuance.
Take TFA. Do I think school districts should hire TFA to teach special ed, or replace veteran teachers? No. Do I support their initial vision to place teachers in areas of high need to support their original two-pronged intended purpose? Yes.
Take Alternative Certification: Do I think a 5-week summer teaching internship should be the norm for preparing the majority of our K-12 teachers? No. When considering teaching applicants for an impoverished school, do I think a 5-week summer teaching internship in an impoverished school setting is about as valuable as a 1-2 semester student teaching experience in a middle/upper class school setting? Yes.
Take Charter Schools: Do I think 5/6 of them should be shut down? Yes. Should State DOEs and local school boards be much more discerning when granting/revoking, and possibly even cap charters? Yes. Would I welcome a mom-and-pop charter with no track record of success in my poor neighborhood? No. Would I welcome a proven, high performing charter in my poor neighborhood, even if I knew it would only elevate 70% of its students and the rest would return to the local public school? Yes.
Differing viewpoints does not equate to “troll” or “mean-spirited”. If anything, these types of discussions provide exposure to education decision makers when allocating state and local budgets, when hiring superintendents and principals, when evaluating various teacher pipelines during hiring process, etc.
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Alharris: do you like TFA leaders who promote vouchers, charters, and high-stakes testing? Rhee, Huffman, White. That was not the original vision. It is the present reality.
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Ms. Ravitch, the short answer to your question is yes and no, I’m somewhere in the middle. I can support you and Dave Levin and Mike Feinberg at the same time.
The longer answer is that my views are a bit muddied, and still evolving as I learn more. I’m a software engineer by trade, and involved in my poor urban community not through the education perspective of a formal teacher, rather via coaching youth sports, after school tutoring, and running a free foreign language & music program for our neighborhood youth.
I do support TFA leaders who support the original vision of TFA, not so much what it’s morphed into today. I do support TFA leaders who want to open highly successful charters like BASIS, KIPP, or Noble, even if the reality is that some percentage of those children return to the local public schools, and even if those charters employ high stakes testing which I’m not a fan of. I’d rather see a rising tide lift 70% of the boats, than see a stagnant tide lift no boats. I don’t support uncapped, wild west type of charter openings that displaces veteran teachers, results in massive public school closings, etc. I do support low-stakes testing, individual student analytic testing to pinpoint areas of needed focus, etc.
I see the current traditionalist educator vs. education reformer debate evolving into a highly polarized, either-or debate. My views lie somewhere in the middle. I don’t see traditionalist educators like yourself advocating for stemming the trajectory of the current education reformers as orthogonal to my desire for a limited role for alternative certification programs and high performing (or high innovating) charters. It’s not either-or from my perspective — I can support you and Dave Levin and Mike Feinberg at the same time.
I’m also commenting from a selfish and visceral viewpoint — I live in a poor urban neighborhood composed of high percentage of minorities (mostly black) and immigrants (mostly Bosnian and Burmese). Our local public schools perform very poorly. My wife and I run free before and after school youth athletic programs, free after school tutoring programs, and free after school foreign language & music programs — we’ve helped send dozens to college, but our sphere of influence is limited to those that choose to participate (~5-10% of the student population). Our local neighborhood schools have been terrible for 50 years, and I don’t see the current superintendent, principals, or teaching staff changing that trend. I’m not fond of waiting another 50 years to see if billion dollar anti-poverty initiatives raise our public schools from dismal to marginally functional — I support those who advocate for more funds, but those efforts seem disconnected to my neighborhood’s immediate crisis. Our neighborhood schools have endorsed many traditionalist educators reform ideas with no broad effect — school uniforms, reduction in class sizes, same sex class rooms, mentoring programs with local businesses and churches, team teaching, educational technology, social service partnering with local health care provider, etc. It seems that every few years, a new M.A./Ed.D/Ph.D. education traditionalist has come to our school to promote their vision of what will work for our community, and our mean ACT/SAT scores, high school graduation rates, college acceptance/attendance rates, etc. are still very low after decades of traditionalist reform.
From a purely selfish perspective, I would welcome a proven, highly successful charter like BASIS, KIPP, or Noble into my neighborhood. It seems to me that we have enough data from the last 20+ years of the charter movement to evaluate the effectiveness of various charter approaches. This data could be used to narrow the charter footprint, implement caps for charters, develop a more standardized way to approve, etc. The same approach could be used for alternative certification programs.
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Those of us who’ve been involved in Internet discussion boards for decades (yes, they’ve been around that long) can readily recognize trolls. Common red flags are that they make assertions intended to be offensive and prattle on and on justifying them, frequently claiming others who disagree are closed-minded and biased. They often try to wear others down, until they are finally the one with the last word. And they think that makes them look like the victor. Critical thinkers know better.
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Elder Wise — which of these assertions I made did you find offensive?
1. That there are examples of successful education models which don’t require formal pedagogy courses and student teaching.
2. That many schools of education don’t provide clinical experiences in poor neighborhood schools.
3. That the education reform debate doesn’t have to be an either-or, all black and white, no grey area, no nuance discussion?
By the way, I’m kind enough to continue to post as myself through out various blogs. I’m suspicious that some on here are actually more “trollish” by creating multiple screen names to appear as a larger majority than is actually represented.
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Most of these studies rely solely on standardized multiple choice exam scores. Yes, that’s the easiest way to compare and everyone cites them on all sides – NAEP, TIMSS, state exams, etc…But is that really what education is about? If so, why is it that Asian countries are trying to become more like America’s public education system and have their students become more independent, critically thinking leaders?
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Have you seen the “The Masters Degree Effect?”
http://www.edweek.org/tsb/articles/2012/02/29/02effect.h05.html
From the U.S. Department of Education, Institute of Education Sciences, National Center for Education Statistics, National Assessment of Educational Progress, various years, 2005-2011 reading assessments.
The US DoE has this info and charts on their website, along with similar ones regarding Math, but I don’t have time to look for that now.
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You might be interested in the discussion here:
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I am not interested in arguments from those who disagreed with the outcomes of research data provided by the DoE and who sought to discredit it, while supporting the assertions of someone who provided no data whatsoever.
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Thank goodness the information technology business world didn’t exclude Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, or Mark Zuckerberg from participating solely based on their lack of a computer science degree. According to the alternative certification critics, they would have been deemed “woefully unprepared”. As would have Einstein or Ramanujan.
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Ms. Ravitch,
May I direct your attention to the discussion currently happening on Mr. Vartanov’s post defending the virtues of TFA?
I find his “if you don’t like it, then sue” response to a critique of TFA especially demonstrative of TFA aims and values. [ full disclosure- that response is to a comment of mine].
http://svartanov.teachforus.org/in-response-to-dont-teach-for-america/
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Very enlightening, KJ. That sure helps to explain what has been going on right here. Thanks for sharing this!
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