“And a little child should lead them.”
The Providence Student Union had the audacity to ask successful adults to take the math section of the test that will determine whether they graduate from high school. Three dozen brave souls accepted their invitation to take a test made up of released items.
The results will be released today.
Some Warwick, RI, students sent some angry, possibly tasteless tweets to State Commissioner Gist. None of these students are part of the Providence Student Union. They were threatened with disciplinary action. The ACLU defended the students’ freedom of speech.
Question: who in the state department of education is paid to read student tweets? Who does surveillance?
We will get the scores later today.
The latest from Rhode Island:
“Gist irked by mock NECAP
‘It’s deeply irresponsible on the part of the adults’ who participated, commissioner says”
By LINDA BORG JOURNAL STAFF WRITER
PROVIDENCE — The state Board of Education chairwoman called Saturday’s mock test a publicity stunt; the state education commissioner said the adult participants were irresponsible; and a few students got nasty.
The debate over linking the New England Common Assessment Program — or NE-CAP — to high school graduation has risen to a new level in the wake of an exercise Saturday in which about 35 adults took a segment of the math test.
The test left numerous participants shaking their heads over the difficulty of the questions, which ranged from geometry to probability, and more than a few suggested abandoning the test as a graduation requirement.
That provoked heated words from state Education Commissioner Deborah A. Gist, who called participants’ response to the test “an outrageous act of irresponsibility.”
“It’s deeply irresponsible on the part of the adults, especially those who are highly educated,” she said. “They’re sending a message that it can’t be done or that it doesn’t matter.”
Gist said once she saw the story, she realized how damaging it was.
“I spent a lot of time [this weekend] trying to convince students why it matters,” she said. “We need all of the adults rallying around these students rather than getting caught up in arguments that don’t have any substance.”
Eva-Marie Mancuso, the chairwoman of the new Rhode Island Board of Education, called the mock test a publicity stunt and said it was diverting attention from the real issue: preparing students to be successful in college and in the workplace.
“We don’t just give this test without any preparation,” Mancuso said. “If I was to take the bar exam tomorrow, I have no idea if I’d pass or not.”
Students aren’t given the NECAP without any preparation, she said. Schools have known about the graduation requirement for several years and they have been told to develop elaborate plans to bring students up to speed.
Then, Mancuso issued her own challenge:
“I would ask the commissioner to offer these adults exactly what’s been offered to the students. The adults better be able to put in the time. If they want to highlight the test and how difficult it is, we should be able to highlight how to make it doable.”
This year’s high school juniors already have access to math problems and tutors online. In addition, many districts are offering remedial help after school or during the summer.
And students can retake the NECAP in October. They only have to show modest progress on the test in order to graduate.
Meanwhile, several students from Warwick posted profane comments about the commissioner on Twitter, which boiled over on talk radio. Gist tweeted back, saying she understood the students’ frustration and asking what she could do to help.
The two or three students who posted inappropriate comments during the school day face short suspensions, according to Warwick Supt. Richard D’Agostino, who said they violated the student code of conduct. Those students who tweeted from home were sent to the principal’s office and their parents will be notified.
No more than five students in total were involved.
“Freedom of speech is wonderful,” D’Agostino said. “It’s unfortunate these students used inappropriate language.”
Warwick’s student code of ethics says students can be suspended for profanity.
One of those students, Nate Colicci,17, of Veterans Memorial High School, acknowledged that he shouldn’t have used profane language but said he stands by his criticism of the NECAP.
“It’s like if you’re never going to use this stuff,” he said, “why test us on it?”
But the Rhode Island Affiliate of the American Civil Liberties Union said that the Warwick schools have over-reacted.
“Some of the tweets we have seen were immature and tasteless,” said the ACLU’s Steven Brown. “But they remain an exercise in free speech. We commend Gist for trying to engage in a dialogue with these students … rather than seeking to punish them for expressing, in admittedly very juvenile ways, their frustration with state policy.”
The mock test’s organizers, a group of activist students called the Providence Student Union, said the test punishes students, who say the school system hasn’t prepared them for the NECAP.
“The real issue here should be giving every student a high-quality education, not ensuring every student can pass an arbitrary test,” said Aaron Regunberg, one of the mock test organizers. “We have a lot of work to do to substantially improve our schools and we would argue that this policy is a distraction.”
lborg@providencejournal.com
So much here to comment on, I scarcely know where to begin. At the very least, it would appear that some bigwigs in Rhode Island were absent when they were teaching “1984” during their high school days…
Incredible.
“Freedom of speech is a wonderful thing… just don’t do it in public!”
a right-winger protesting the Dixie Chicks’ anti-war comments…
(This quote is NOT from someone TRYING to be funny… it’s from an actual, man-on-the-street-interview included in SHUT UP AND SING, a Dixie Chicks documentary directed by two-time Academy Award-winning director Barbara Kopple.)
Looks like one of the kids tweeted the “C word” at Deborah Gist’s twitter (at 11:14 am on a Friday), with the direct result that she would have seen it: https://twitter.com/JohnDePetroshow/status/312735695917682688/photo/1
What shameful conduct on the part of school officials, disciplining kids merely they were upset at having to learn math and instead spent the school day calling women the “C word” online. I’m glad to see that Ms. Ravitch is so strongly in favor of high school kids doing that during the school day, instead of wasting their time on math.
It’s not clear if the tweets were done from school or not. They were tweeted on a school day in a Warwick, RI high school – March 15th. From their posted school schedules, it looks like they were done in the class right before lunch, although that could not be determined positively without knowing the high school that the tweeter attends. He could have been home sick that day also.
The original story said that some tweets came during school hours, some did not. I think there was a Supreme Court decision that said that a student does not give up his or her Constitutional rights when they enter the schoolhouse.
It is also very easy to schedule tweets to be sent automatically at a pre determined time.
No telling from the time of the tweet where the person was or what they were doing.
But I am delighted to see you agree the “c word” (as you refer to it) is unacceptable.
I agree.
I am sure, then, that you never use it and you correct , reprimand, complain about all other uses of the term.
Thank you for being on the feminist side, and welcome!
One kid literally used “c word” (not the word to which that refers) in a tweet, so I’m not sure if that’s more acceptable or not.
Who says I’m complaining about it? I’m joining Ms. Ravitch in saying this was a noble exercise of free speech, far better than wasting time on irrelevant things like algebra.
JB: Where exactly did Ms. Ravitch say what you keep claiming she said?
“I’m joining Ms. Ravitch in saying this was a noble exercise of free speech, far better than wasting time on irrelevant things like algebra.”
JB from Arkansas makes things up. I respect free speech, even coming from a prevaricator. Not a very good one.
I am one of those “irresponsible adults” who took the test…and failed, predictably enough. I found the content of the test to be outrageously irrelevant for the lives of the vast majority of people (80% or more?). To me, what is truly “irresponsible” and morally indefensible is attaching high stakes consequences to a test for students who know they were never taught the material through no fault of their own!
Let’s hold Gist accountable for the costly failures of her policies before she consigns thousands of students to a grim and limited future.
If algebra and geometry are outrageously irrelevant, then I assume you join with me and Ms. Ravitch in calling for them to be abolished. For that matter, why do we even have high school at all? Most people are never going to need all of that useless knowledge about World History or Biology or Chemistry anyway.
JB of Arkansas: Was your comment written by the Walton Family Foundation or by you? Why don’t you take the state tests and publish your scores?
Wait, are you saying that you don’t, in fact, think that tweeting the “C word” is a better use of a high schooler’s time than learning basic algebra?
Out of curiosity, any particular reason you’re stuck on the false dilemma fallacy today?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma
No one is suggesting that academics be abandoned in favor of Twitter. You don’t even have a real basis for assuming the tweeting was being done on class time.
Your time might be more profitably spent elsewhere, I think…
The premise of this thread, as echoed in the enthusiastic agreement of many commenters, is that it is outrageous to expect anyone to learn rudimentary algebra and geometry. Right on. Those subjects are irrelevant, as is most of high school.
Your premise is factually incorrect. There was nothing “rudimentary” in the test we took.
JB, seems to me that YOU introduced Algebra and Geometry into the thread.
Nice diversion.
Galton — perhaps you missed the fact that this entire series of posts is about the outrage of Rhode Island giving high school students a test over some rudimentary algebra and geometry.
JB,
I am too old to see, but not too old to learn.
Where is the reference to rudimentary Algebra and Geometry?
Galton — take a look at the test of which everyone is complaining: rudimentary algebra and geometry.
JB of Arkansas: Please take the high school exit exam in your state and send us the scores.
JB,
ok ,
so there is no reference here to rudimentary Algebra and Geometry.
So, if these tests are so “rudimentary” (first principals, basic facts, fundamentals, earliest stage of development type stuff, right?), why did the well educated, successful adults do poorly?
BTW, JB is the only reference I can find calling these tests “rudimentary”.
I can only speak first hand for the tests in my state, but the math and science tests are far from rudimentary. Most adults I know would bomb.
Funny side story: My doctor (MD well known and respected in the big ATL), told me she was trying to help her daughter study for a chemistry test and the Dr. thought the stuff the kid was expected to learn in a first year HS chem. class was a bit too much. According to the Dr., there were topics she was not exposed to until college. The Dr. had been a chemistry major at a very well known college prior to med school .
Rigor, you know!
No, Galton, there is a reference to a test that contains rudimentary algebra and geometry; if you object to the test as too hard or irrelevant, then you are necessarily objecting to rudimentary algebra or geometry. Logic.
Ang– you’re certainly right that most adults would bomb a test requiring them to do such difficult tasks as apply the Pythagorean theorem to figure out the side of a right triangle. That’s exactly why we shouldn’t teach algebra in high school, and I’m glad to see you joining the call to stop teaching kids all of this fancy “math.”
JB,
Not quite. There is a reference to A TEST. I think you need to learn how to do a “close reading” and understand the difference between what is explicitly stated and what is inferred. (Although I may well agree with you once I see the test in question. )
Ms. Ravitch — what’s your point by telling me to take my own state high school test? You seem to think that this is a good way to taunt me, but I’m not sure what the point is. I indeed probably wouldn’t do very well, but this only further underscores the fact that high school subjects are irrelevant and should be abolished. So you’re really in agreement on that point, right?
JB is just here for the banter, that’s all.
Ken, courage in service of truth should be admired.
You cause extends far beyond the borders of the Ocean State.
Thank you from the land of the meek and compliant (NJ).
Ken,
Thank you..your courage and honesty are appreciated.
I have always felt, that if these tests represent what is necessary to be considered college are career ready, necessary to simply get out of high school, then those of us who have escaped high school, and been successful in college, career or both should at least be able to pass, right?
I mean, come on. Graduation tests are not like the bar exam, qualifying one to practice law or even an AP exam which can confer college credit. All this test does is allow one to get out of high school. So, if we insist on testing for graduation, then the test should reflect things all high school graduates are expected to know. Including those who have been out for a while.
Thank you again for exposing the tests for what they are, a waste of teacher and student time and tax payer money.
Ang: What you said!
Amazing how when you and Diane and others state the obvious, it brings out a poster or two who have severe attacks of that dreaded malady called “foot-in-the-edubully-mouth disease.”
Keep on posting.
🙂
Thanks,
KrazyTA!
Yes, I took the test too, and “irresponsible” is certainly not an adjective that would spring to mind if you’d seen the civic and academic leaders in the room that day.
I think anyone who took the test would agree that, regardless of its quality (I think it is a good test of conceptual understanding), it is nothing like a test designed for use as a minimum graduation requirement. It just happened to be the only one RI had handy to use between now and when we switch to the PARCC, so that’s what we’re using, applicable to the task or not.
Do we have any reassurance that the PARCC test that RI will be using in the future is any more applicable to the task, or are we just going on the word of the same person who sold us the NECAP as being applicable?
Without expressing any great faith in PARCC, it will at least be more widely used and understood than the NECAP, and in particular it is unlikely we’d be the only ones trying to use it for graduation.
Most people assume PARCC will be harder but I think it will have to be easier (for HS math) or graduation rates in the deep South would fall to around 50% if they tried to use it for graduation.
Tom, am I wrong or is did the most recent round of NECAP feature about 40% of 11th graders scoring a “1”? Those numbers do not bode much better than your predictions for the deep South. PARCC had better be an easier test or there is going to be big trouble here in RI.
Ron: Yes, that’s my point.
http://www.ccsstoolbox.com/parcc/PARCCPrototype_main.html
here is link to paarc high school task prototype. I got part A purely by guessing but flipped off the computer when I saw part B.
The high school ELA/Literacy is equally as painful….excerpt from Ovid’s Metamorphoses: Daedalus and Icarus
I get need for rigor and high expectations but “we’re going to need a bigger boat” if there is where we’re going.
Tom H,
May I suggest that you read Noel Wilson’s destruction of the concepts of educational standards, standardized testing and even “grading” students in his seminal dissertation (I’ve not seen a single rebuttal to his work) “Educational Standards and the Problem of Error” found at http://epaa.asu.edu/ojs/article/view/577/700 . None of the tests have any validity whatsoever due to the myriad logical errors (13 identified by Wilson, any one of which proves the invalidity of the process) involved in the making, using and disseminating of results of these tests. As Wilson states any conclusions drawn are “vain and illusory”.
Duane
FYI @ D R: “The original story said that some tweets came during school hours, some did not. I think there was a Supreme Court decision that said that a student does not give up his or her Constitutional rights when they enter the schoolhouse.”
Tinker v Des Moines – I used to teach it when I had a Civics class. Great case and a great lesson. Should be required reading for all high school students.
Here’s a thought, eliminate the dept. of education and return educating our children to the states where it belongs. The dept of education is unconstitutional! The people closest to the problem are best able to fix the problem, get rid of common core and DOE!
If only more parents saw what was being taught and tested…well.
Since when was parental involvement and activism deemed, “irresponsible”? I would argue not being involved is ‘irresponsible’.
Gist is using the mafia tactic of intimidation. This speaks to her poor character, and lack of confidence in the measures used to stand on their own integrity..
Coercion and confrontation are the hallmark of her administration…just what we know has never worked.
She sounds dreadful…any chance she could be out like Brizard in Chicago? How long are you stuck with her?
I checked the past records and it looks like about 40% of RI 11th grade students scored a “1” on the last batch of NECAP tests, which would mean they would be ineligible for graduation. But wait! If they score too low, they can still graduate so long as they take the test one or more additional times and show “progress”. I can’t find how much progress they need to make, but… If about half of the students in the state need to take the test one or more additional times in order to graduate… Can you say, “Cha-CHING!!!”? (And who is going to pay for all of those retakes?)
Now, you’ve hit the nail on the head. As everyone keeps saying Follow the MONEY!
After being corrected, I conclude that you are deliberately distorting the facts. This test was NOT “rudimentary” in any sense.
JB seems to have disappeared or his new talking points are being crafted for him. He appears to be losing.
Linda, What are you talking about?
JB Losing?
You are rudimentary!
You are in agreement with using the “c word”!
You hate algebra !
Obviously you think high schools should teach twitter instead of Chaucer!
😉
😉
😉
I didn’t want you to get lonesome for ‘ol JB from Arkansas!
I, for one, enjoyed the old talking points.
When one can “move the goal post”, “create a false dilemma” and “straw man”, not to mention deliberately distorting the facts and in some cases make no sense at all… all in the same post ….well that JB was something, alright!
Would it be possible for somebody to post a PDF file of the test? At least then people would have some facts on which to base their opinions about how difficult & relevant it is? I’m sure people will still disagree, but the tone of the conversation might change. Also, I don’t know about others, but I rather like doing those “IQ” tests in magazines. I think it’d be kind of fun to see how well one might score.
Just to avoid any confusion, I am not opining on the actual test and I am very opposed to high stakes testing. Not to mention being opposed to testing that has high stakes for students when they have not even been taught material that is on the test.
I’d like to take this student-framed test as well. If someone has a link to a PDF file of it, I would be grateful if he/she would post it.
I just happen to like things like that, but quite probably they are too hard for a good 50% of high school seniors except in the “best” schools.
A high school degree essentially means nothing these days, and even a college degree is no guarantee of either literacy or numeracy.
Can EVERY student, in principle, attain to literacy and numeracy, given enough good education?
These high stakes tests seem to assume so.
Sally: I found these: http://www.ride.ri.gov/instruction/math.aspx
They are on the RIDE web site, which one article mentioned. Not sure what grade level people are referring to.
Part of the issue regarding NECAP is that it was never intended to be used in the manner that Commissioner Gist’s administration intends to use it as a graduation benchmark. Tom Sgouros has an informative open letter to Eva Mancuso, Chair of the RI Board of Education. You can read Tom’s letter at: http://www.rifuture.org/open-letter-about-necap-to-eva-mancuso.html.
“Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. . . . He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way.”
— From Cat’s Cradle, by Kurt Vonnegut