Today, the North Carolina Board of Education will vote on whether to permit for-profit online corporations to enroll children as young as five.
I hope they reject this terrible proposal, for the following reasons:
1. Online home-schooling is developmentally inappropriate for young children.
2. Study after study has shown that students who get their schooling from online corporations have lower test scores and lower graduation rates than students in real schools.
3. Every student who enrolls in an online school takes money away from a community public school that does a better job.
4. For-profit schooling profits the corporation, not the kids.
Diane Ravitch's blog 
YES, online courses are inappropriate for young kids. I had to help a youngster with on online course and OH MY it was HORRID. The online course provided inaccurate and even false information. The course costs a lot of money and was a total waste of time. The student HATED it. We couldn’t even ask questions to clarify what was in the horrible student manual. Then to top it off, the testing centers that this online course said were open were NON EXISTENT.
BE WARY of those pushing online courses for the young. BTW, the above student I referred to was a high school student. She was made to take this course because she received a C in a course and C’s were unacceptable at this school in the name of high expectations. Egads….
This is a heartbreaking discussion.
As a mother, I cannot see my own child at home with myself and a few of her peers learning at a pace that is better or more engaging than being in a school with the benefits of many peers, a guided direction, and the sense of real purpose in changing the world. She would not have the motivation (even the “gumption”) to compete in an academic environment, and socially, she would be struggling greatly. Her teachers are dedicated and loving, and she needs to be IN SCHOOL. Not online. Online is for people who live and work and need the convenience of learning online, because they already know how to communicate live with other adults. Online learning is not for the vast majority of children. In that, I agree.
However, as a teacher in an urban/Title I district, I feel for the families of students who want desperately to achieve, but cannot, because they are drowning in a sea of discontented, disruptive, and disrespectful children, whose parents could not care less about education. I know of parents who have said to their daughters, “If you get pregnant, don’t worry about it, because you can receive help from the government.” I know of parents who are fully aware that their sons deal drugs, and care not if that activity affects or hurts another family, where their sons want to “deal too.” If you say ‘these are exceptions, and not the rule,’ you certainly don’t live here, and you don’t know the underprivileged like I do.
So where are we? How will we ever find balance, if we as educators have lost the ability to expel students without a cadre of lawyers by our side, and the government saying “you best do absolutely everything (the kitchen sink), before you expel a child who is a danger to him/herself and all around them.”
Unfortunately, opinions aside, we are going to need this fight to urge people to come together and find the balance. Private schools and charters can fire students, just like businesses can let go of employees. But if all schools go the Charter route, can all schools be able to let go of students so that they don’t get educated at all? And the parents will have to foot the bill of online education or the consequences of unemployment? I have solutions as ideas, but I am one person. Let’s really discuss this.
I don’t believe you when you claim, ” I know of parents who have said to their daughters, “If you get pregnant, don’t worry about it, because you can receive help from the government.” That’s a projection from your own mind, isn’t it?
There’s no way you overhear parents saying that to their daughters. I taught very-low-income pregnant and parenting girls for five years, and they didn’t report that anybody had ever said any such thing to them. You made it up. You’re hearing the echo of your own toxic prejudices, rattling around in your head, and it has no part in striking any “balance”.
Sorry to tell you but there are parents that are known in our district(s) who do encourage the cycle of poverty to continue. It might seem unbelievable, but it is a reality. I wish it were just a “projection from my mind” but it is not, unfortunately.
You are absolutely accurate that I didn’t hear the conversation itself, but I have been around for so many teen (as young as 14 and 13) pregnancies, and it all continues. You also have a good opinion that this might be toxic bias. I will look forward to more self-reflection. However, balance requires understanding from all and not a constant berating of each other.
In the meantime, we will deal with what we have and time will tell. Privatization is here for at least 10-20 more years and it will be interesting (if we’re around that long) to come back to this conversation. I hope you’re proven right. 🙂
Thank you for your reply.
I’ve heard the daughters say it. They probably heard, ” You’re not staying here if you get pregnant.”
Stern Advice,
I think you need to read some articles on poverty. I taught in a Title I school in Phoenix. I understand what you are saying about students with more behavior problems, learning disabilities, etc. You understand that the Charter schools and private schools do not have to keep these students. Therefore, the public school is where they attend. The public school doesn’t have the funding to help these students. We end up with more of these students in our classes and little or no help. Then we are told we are not good teachers, because we can’t get these students to learn or behave. I believe the Charters must have the same rules as public schools. But, I also believe that we need to help these students, not abandon them. By abandoning them, we are sending more off to prisons, etc. Why not provide more counseling, more social workers, parenting classes, etc. in the neighborhood environment? We would be creating more jobs, as well. In AZ, we are funding private prisons. I would rather see that money go to schools to help our students before they go to prison.
Did you live in the neighborhood or area you taught in? I do. I think you need to live poverty in order to understand it. Thank you.
I taught in an urban school district. And, yes, I met the 24 grandmother who was prideful of the 12 year old mother receiving another welfare check. The 12 year old mother was a 5th grader, who could not pass 5th grade, for the 3rd time.
Thank you, Dottie. You have more patience than I do.
I’d like to unpack one statement you made, in reaching out to “stern advice”. You wrote, “I understand what you are saying about students with more behavior problems, learning disabilities, etc. ” Are you sure you understand what she’s driving at here? This is the same argument advanced earlier this week by commenter Harlan Underhill, that children who are deemed difficult or must be thrown aside in the interest of good ones.
But then, “stern advice” goes on to declaim, “If you say ‘these are exceptions, and not the rule,’ you certainly don’t live here, and you don’t know the underprivileged like I do.”
This is ugly, and untrue. Children in poverty are hurt and even physically impaired more often than children of wealthier families, and in both cases we, as a human society, claim those injured children as our own. I say this because I’m about to put a weapon into “stern advice’s” dishonest hands. Because of neurological impairment due to environmental lead poisoning, many low income children really are harder to reach than they would be if they weren’t poisoned.
http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2013/01/lead-crime-link-gasoline?page=1
But if we can give them more help, not less, we can reach them anyway, and set them on the inborn developmental path that loving care alone offers to human children. I held in my arms the babies in a study cohort which drove the passage of the Massachusetts Lead Law, while their mothers cried at the news of 20 or 25 ug/dL of lead in their babies’ blood. Helpiing the hurt babies is vital, as is protecting all the children from further harm.
“Stern Advice” doesn’t “know the underpriveleged”. Turn away from her poisonous message.
While you’re on the subject of lead poisoning and toxic terrible writings – you missed the points yourself.
I said strike a balance – not throw children away. How many children do YOU teach? I teach over 600 per week. I take my own money and buy equipment for them, give them months to complete a week’s work and hold their hands when they’re scared. Even when they’re 14 and in eighth grade. They’re still kids.
In my career alone, I have taught over 4,000 youngsters, and I have not ‘abandoned’ them. How many have you taught? In the midst of barely-standing mobile homes? How many have come through YOUR door undernourished and leave feeling confident?
And lead poisoning? This is your soapbox? You really think that ALL impoverished families suffer from… lead poisoning? I don’t know if you are from the generation who can remember this, but we used to watch that television public service announcement as kids with the little baby eating paint chips warning of lead poisoning. That’s been around for almost 50 years.Then came asbestos, then other toxins, then BPA, now lead poisoning again.
I don’t think YOU got my point. My point is that either online education or total privatization are the answers and that NO ONE is discussing the underlying matter of what to do as a WHOLE NATION AND SOCIETY about educating EVERYONE. That was the point. Hope you understood it this time ’round.
I meant NEITHER online education NOR privatization. I stand correcting myself. 😦
I don’t know what you could be doing to 600 low income children a week that you consider teaching, but I think you might have put your finger on what I call “throwing them away”. You have to clean up your language if you want to take any credit for dispensing your “stern” contempt (“If you say ‘these are exceptions, and not the rule,’ you certainly don’t live here, and you don’t know the underprivileged like I do.”) Suddenly you remember to claim you hold their hands?
You already showed your claims of knowing “the underprivileged” are false. I’ve been a classroom science teacher for 15 years, all but one in Title I schools. There are many thousands like me who learn the names of all our students, and work with low income kids interactively, up close and personal. Another ten years in special programs in an urban setting and a tribal college have given me the chance to move outside the strictures of the bell schedule, again a background I share with many peers.
The link your didn’t open is to a statistical study, which makes it clear not “every” child is affected, but it’s only one example of the material and social context in which we serve our communities. Your claim that “NO ONE” is addressing the question is mistaken. As Anthony Cody pointed out, real education reformers “Actively recognize inequities in society and work to reverse them systematically.”
http://blogs.edweek.org/teachers/living-in-dialogue/2013/01/the_education_reform_dichotomy.html
The lead law we helped pass 20 years ago contributed to the academic performance of the Massachusetts children in front of me today. My husband is a professor of nutrition in the School of Health and the Environment , and his department is active in research and public policy to improve the health of low income children. I can only tell you your dismissive arrogance toward scientifically based environmental improvement is wrong-headed. Yes, I’m old enough to remember lead paint service announcements.
I don’t care for your tone at this point. I tried to start a balanced discussion, and you have turned it into a platform for your one-note cry against me without even asking to clarify anything.
Right out of the gate, you claimed to say I am a liar. I responded by telling you you have merit, and I would reflect. After that, this discussion has spiraled into your one-woman bandstand against me, without you so much as knowing me. You claim “I don’t know, how dare I etc.” – these are inflammatory and unacceptable remarks from one professional to another. Hope you have a good rest of your year. Sincerely.
I love your four points, Diane. Thanks.
Teenage parenting is stressful enough, without knee-jerk reactions making things worse.
They have not been able to decide where to focus their energies on parenting solutions.
Dr Phil in his effective parenting survey of 17,000 people
found that the two top challenges facing parents were
making punishment work and improving school performance.