Blogger Steve Ruis pulls apart the theological ruling by the Alabama Supreme Court, holding that frozen embryos are children. The Court invoked religious language to assert that destroying a frozen embryo is murder, and anyone who does that can be sued as if they terminated the life of a child. Frozen embryos are in a freezer, not a womb, but the Justices endow them with the status of a living child.
In Vitro Fertilization clinics across Alabama—and elsewhere—are panicked. Couples use IVF when they can’t conceive; typically, they freeze more than they need because, for whatever reason, some of those embryos fail. One couple I know froze 10 embryos; they now have two beautiful, healthy children. But if the Alabama ruling were commonly endorsed, the other eight frozen embryos could never be destroyed. Long after the parents are dead, long after their grandchildren are dead, the embryos would be preserved. Forever.
Ruis writes:
Just when I thought the SCOTUS was the greatest threat to democracy we faced in our court system, the Supreme Court of the State of Alabama stepped up by deciding that frozen embryos are “extrauterine children.”
According to their Chief Justice, Tom Parker:
“The Alabama constitution’s ‘sanctity of unborn life’ provision, he wrote, ‘encompasses the following: (1) God made every person in His image; (2) each person therefore has a value that far exceeds the ability of human beings to calculate; and (3) human life cannot be wrongfully destroyed without incurring the wrath of a holy God, who views the destruction of His image as an affront to Himself.’”
Apparently the Alabama Supreme Court has not heard of the separation of church and state. And I am surprised that they weren’t singing Monty Python’s song “Every Sperm is Sacred” while issuing their ruling.
This immediately put the brakes on all of the In Vitro Fertilization therapies currently under way. If you are unfamiliar with IVF it is a process where infertile couples can have fertilized embryos implanted in the woman’s uterus. The embryos are frozen awaiting this process and are willingly donated by fertile women.
So, here’s the bind the fertility clinics are in. They cannot go ahead with the IVF treatments because the “success rate is low, that is many embryos do not implant in the uterine wall and are flushed out during a waste cycle. This would be considered a wrongful death under the law and the desperate parents and doctors could all go to jail. So, all of these clinics are to put their frozen embryos on ice, as it were.
But, here is the problem. Those embryos under Alabama law cannot be implanted, so they have to stay frozen . . .in perpetuity. But what happens down there in hurricane country of the electric power is knocked out for a number of days. Without electricity, all of those embryos would thaw and “die.” Would that be considered a mass murder on the part of the clinic or an “act of God,” under their laws.
I know the solution. All of the Bible thumpers need to step up and adopt one of these “extrauterine children,” providing them with an uninterruptable supply of electricity and to take responsibility if they die. Then we will know they are truly “pro life.”
Remaining frozen forever, never to run and play in the park . . . so much for the sanctity of life.

I wonder if parents can claim a tax credit/deduction for those “children”.
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Haaaaa!!!
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Linda Woods, great question! Can you get a tax deduction for frozen embryos?
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And who is expected to pay for all that storage in perpetuity? The great and great-great, etc grandchildren to multiple generations?
As for the tax credit/ deduction, why shouldn’t the parents who provided the eggs and sperm be able to make that claim since they’re the ones paying for the “upkeep” of said “children”.
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Eggs are chickens. –Jeebus
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American Alternative Factual Universes: Alabama
Alabama Jeebus,
with him you’d best align,
else the fundy Taliban
will smite thee down, supine.
Embryos are humans.
With sin a baby’s born.
Come meet the ‘bama bullies, folks,
where reason is foresworn.
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So true! Excellent.
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Who Needs Law Libraries
When You Have
the Goatherder’s Guide to the Galaxy?
Other states have lots of books
containing lots of laws,
but Alabama’s simpler ’cause
the Bible says it all.
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Alabama being Alabama.
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The judges need to step up and each adopt one of these “extrauterine children,” providing them with an uninterruptable supply of electricity and to take responsibility if they die.
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The anti-choice/forced birth community has always been about controlling women. This bizarre ruling is sadly not surprising to me.
Jessica Valenti publishes a daily newsletter ( with paid subscription optional) about reproductive health.
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https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=784069547085455&set=a.466456365513443
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https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=781492140692572&set=a.104174241757702
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I’m tired of comments on the religious implications. Not from the writer, but from the context used by this judge. First, there is no reference anywhere in the Old or New Testament related to conception as the time life begins much less whether abortion is a sin. The judge is acting as if he sees himself as a voice for God, which is what really has implications for such judgement actually condemned by Jesus in the Gospels. This is not Christianity. It is the worse kind of pontificating to abuse power.
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The fundamental issue for Americans seeking fairness, the safety of women in their reproductive years, an advanced society, etc. is that politicians and judges on the political, religious right, place God’s law above man’s?
Is it a distraction to debate what the Bible says?
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My point is that under any context this has no relationship to “God’s law”. It is all about patriarchal power.
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Agree, it’s about patriarchal power.
For women, “God’s law” (it’s derivation seems a bit murky and, it’s interpretation has been, solely, by men) hasn’t been that helpful for advancing them?
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Support for abortion restrictions is higher among women than men (albeit marginally) in most polls I’ve seen. It’s as much about matriarchal control as it is about patriarchal control.
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FLERP, it’s about religious brainwashing. Indoctrination.
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Or many of those women submitting to patriarchal reasoning about the woman’s place in society. I have had conversations with evangelical women who are pleased to let their husbands make all of the decisions. It is really a thing.
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Certainly religion is the big driver. It annoys me when people chalk it up to “patriarchy.” My mother has always been intensely anti-abortion. My father had no strong views. That’s typical of a lot of households, and polling shows that if anything, women are the voters who most favor harsh abortion restrictions. The margin of difference is thin, though, so it doesn’t make sense to call this dynamic matriarchal or patriarchal.
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only male priests doling out god’s word, only SBC pastors doling out god’s word, for women parishioners to hear- hmm
the question that interests me is why women tend to be more religious.
I’ve asked if men would belong to a church that told them they had to give their lives for a fetus that had a good chance of being dead or was dead… not to many express a willingness. I don’t know how or when girls decide their lives are only worth what God talkers tell them they are
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Flerp: the only polls I can find show women slightly more in favor Of abortion rights than men. One suggested s rising number of women support abortion rights, which suggests this number is growing from the age group that is in child-bearing years. The 60-40 Kansas vote in 2022 strongly suggests strength in women voters. Still, I might be wrong. Polls are inaccurate.
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Linda, yes, most if not all religions are rooted in and to some extent replicate social orders that are retrograde and sexist. The Catholic Church is certainly an offender. Islam, yikes. But women are not stupid. Women, at least in the West, have agency and can vote. If even just marginally more than 50% of women voters in states like Alabama — say, 55%, or 60% — demanded that abortion be legal in all or most cases, the law in those states would be very different.
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Women could overturn the abortion ban in Florida but only if the state Supreme Court allows the referendum on the ballot
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In the meantime they can demand representatives who support abortion rights.
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Yeshua of Nazareth (blessed be his name) would set these “Justices” straight about a few things, for example, that the lives of mothers matter and that an embryo, according to Mosaic- Talmudic Law, is not a person.
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Bible thumpers don’t open the book much.
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Some do. But it’s shocking how man don’t.
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Bob, Bob, Bob, Bob…
Of course Jesus would think that.
He’s Jewish, so he would follow Jewish law.
Jesus was not Christian, so the Christian take on when personhood begins can’t really apply to him.😉
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exactly
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It’s bizarre, isn’t it, that people who call themselves Christians do not follow the beliefs held by Christ.
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Republican Sen. JD Vance said in a recent interview that the presidency should be a governing body over SCOTUS. Sen. Vance converted to Catholicism in 2019 with timing similar to his political ambitions. The TV ads that are airing for Hallow, starring Mark Walberg, in a Catholic Church, are for a prayer app created by Vance. Vance has been mentioned as a possible Trump VP.
Guardian has an article about Rufo/IM-1776 and proto fascism. The founder of IM-1776 said Rufo does what conservatives should do, impose their views on society. The 1776 PAC was founded by Ryan Girdusky. His interview with Pat Buchanan describing right wing religion’s origin of political power is available on-line. The beginning cited was the appointment of Scalia to SCOTUS.
Possibly, there can be agreement that Americans should have been wary about Trump’s election denial at a time prior to Jan. 6?
With six jurists on SCOTUS who are steeped in right wing Catholicism, perhaps a review of Catholic position on frozen embryos would be wise. Barrett disingenuously claimed (or, deceived) about Roe v Wade as settled law. I don’t have the sense that precedent is a compelling argument for authoritarians.
Is the Alabama decision the right timing for a red flag? Should Americans have confidence that it is a one-off state? Or, does that framing, make people complacent about the erosion of our judicial institutions in favor of authoritarian control?
A heads up, commenter Bob, when replying to my comments chooses ridicule or gaslighting instead of making a refutation argument.
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What we are witnessing here is a particular conservative mindset. It is not new either to conservative politics or conservative religion.
I recall the encounter that made me aware of this. I had expressed some opinion to the dominant and conservative father of a friend of mine. He emphatically suggested that giving up any portion of his ideas meant that all of his belief system would be lost piece by piece. This same attitude permeates Christian fundamentalism. To give in to one aspect of modernity, say evolution theory, is viewed by most of that point of view as a complete capitulation and abandonment of principles.
These justices, once deciding that life begins at conception, could do nothing else without feeling as though they are sacrificing all of their principles. Who wants to confront the truth if it reminds you that your feet are of clay?
The question in my mind is how the Supreme Court will take the wording of this ruling and get around the obvious contradiction between that wording and the First Amendment guarantee of freedom from establishment of religion. With Dobbs, the court had only to suggest the weakness of Roe. With this ruling based as it is within the context of religion, how could they fail to consider A1?
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Are you being kinder to them then they deserve? It is the party of Jim Jordan, Matt Gaetz, Phil Jensen and Donald Trump.
The Mike Pence and Mike Johnson’s are, probably, small in number in the party. One third of those who claim to be evangelicals don’t attend church. Poor Christ having his views spun to assuage the guilt that a Republican feels for making soulless decisions.
The party, IMO, wants White, wealthy, male domination and grift for themselves, full stop. The base
are suckers for GOP messaging.
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I did not think what I said was charitable. This type of mindset is fundamentally damaging to society. It is the fly in the ointment of conservatism in general and of our own brand in particular
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Your examples made me think it was a charitable view- people denying scientific evolution theory and having feet of clay.
Other examples could have been tied to the denial of life, liberty and pursuit of happiness for women and Blacks
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If those embroyos are “children” then shouldn’t the “parents” of them be allowed to take them as tax deductions…?
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YES! The more embryos, the bigger your tax deductions!
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The Teamsters gave the RNC $45,000 (announced today).
The Teamsters are led by Sean O’Brien. Support for the anti-labor party is a surprise, but, not the support for the anti-abortion party.
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This is just one more step towards a government based on theocracy and destruction of democracy. Just one more way of limiting the rights of women to decide what they can and cannot do with their bodies and lives. Parental rights will so be governed by a government that is directed by who are bible thumpers
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I’d like to know the backstory to why this has all of a sudden blown up? Nobody cared about frozen embryos 6 months ago or last year or 5 yrs ago. All of a sudden there seems to be a lot in the news about IVF and sperm donations and an “unregulated” reproductive system/market. Inquiring minds would like to know?
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It’s the accelerating march of fascism. The Guardian recently reported about Christopher Rufo, IM 1776 and proto-fascism. The article is worth a read. The founder of IM 1776 said, Rufo does what conservatives should do, impose their views on society.
Authoritarianism is about denying rights and selectively doling out privileges to the 90%.
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I don’t want to hear your anti religion gobble d gook or your “oh the patriarchy” screeching! I want to know the real story about why this is suddenly in the news. Please don’t reply to me unless you can give me the facts.
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LisaM,
You’ve told the blog you are/were? a right wing religionist so, my answer avoided religion.
Your unwillingness to hear about a topic in which you are emotionally invested is not unique. The National Catholic Reporter wrote about priest abuse 17 years before the Boston Globe dipped its toes into the story. Congregants knew before and during the hiatus in coverage?
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You’re a nut job! Don’t try and tell me who/what I am.
You should really try getting off the internet and get out a little more among the people of the world. You sound deranged with your rantings.
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“. . . why this has all of a sudden blown up?”
It hasn’t suddenly blown up. It’s been there for a long time. I know two women with PhDs who work with embryonic stem cell lines. They are very in tune to the machinations of those who would kill their research by banning using embryonic stem cells. They been pointing out the reich wing’s attack for many years.
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The long game-
Santa Clara University
“Reproductive Technology and the Vatican”
In March of 1987, the Vatican issued its document “condemning artificial insemination, IVF and surrogate motherhood under all circumstances. …The instruction was not only aimed at Roman Catholics, but also was intended to influence national legislation worldwide on biomedical issues.”
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It’s all of a sudden blown up because of the Alabama fetal personhood decision.
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Ruis mentions in his piece that a committed life-begins-at-conception legislature would grant tax deductions for unborn persons.
Georgia already did that.
Steve
Get Outlook for Androidhttps://aka.ms/AAb9ysg ________________________________
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Good grief!
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Wondering if 18 year old embryos will be eligible to vote, or possibly collect SSI because they are unable to work.
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Since the Teamsters have sidled up next to a political party of libertarians connected to white supremacists, it’s a good idea to review the information about the German Labor Front at Wikipedia.
A look at proto-fascism in the US, currently, shows attempts to find out how much opposition a further shift to the right will face. In the cultural
area, it’s frozen embryos as people. And, in the economic area, it’s the teamsters leadership meeting with trump with the result that they fund
his political party.
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The New Republic has an article about the frozen embryo ruling.
The final sentence is, “They’re (the religious right) are getting what they want before most people have realized what they were after.”
In every age, in every country, the priest aligns with the despot- Jefferson
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Here’s what Pew Research found in its July, 2022 survey on abortion:
“women are more likely than men to say they have thought “a lot” about abortion (40% vs. 30%). They are also considerably more likely to say they personally know someone who has had an abortion…women and men mostly agree with each other that abortion should be legal in cases of danger to the life or health of the pregnant woman and in the case of rape. More than half of both women and men agree that how long a woman has been pregnant should be a factor in determining whether abortion is legal in any given case.”
“White evangelical Protestants are most opposed to abortion. Nearly three-quarters say that abortion should be against the law in all cases without exception (21%) or that it should be illegal in most cases (53%). White evangelicals are also far more likely than U.S. adults who identify with other religious groups to say that life begins at conception and that the fetus is thus a person with rights; 86% of White evangelicals express this view. White evangelicals are also more likely than those in other Christian groups to say their opinions on abortion are influenced by their religious beliefs.”
https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2022/05/06/americas-abortion-quandary/
Other research finds the same thing. This is all being fomented by the religious right, by people who call themselves “Christians” but who highly support a person who is a pathological liar, and a racist, and a misogynist, and a seditious traitor. Lots of these people also call themselves “patriots.”
You can see quickly at this link that it is that they are “patriotic” about:
https://www.usatoday.com/picture-gallery/news/nation/2021/01/07/front-pages-capture-chaos-riots-us-capitol/6577931002/
Most Americans (61 percent, according to Gallup) think the Supreme Court’s Dobbs decision overturning Roe v. Wade (1973), was a “bad thing.”
Surely it was.
So was the Alabama Supreme Court’s religious decision on embryos. From the Alabama Political Reporter:
“The Medical Association of the State of Alabama has voiced its concerns over the ramifications of this decision, particularly highlighting its impact on In-Vitro Fertilization (IVF) procedures. The association warns that this ruling could severely limit fertility options for Alabamians, potentially leading to a decrease in births and affecting families across the state. The immediate cessation of IVF services by UAB, Alabama’s largest healthcare system, underscores the ruling’s chilling effect on reproductive healthcare providers.”
“The Medical Association of Alabama, with a history spanning over 140 years and comprising around 7,000 physicians of various specialties, stands as a pivotal advocate for high-quality healthcare in the state. Through its statement, the association not only expresses its apprehension about the future of IVF in Alabama but also calls for the Alabama Supreme Court to reconsider or stay its ruling to ensure that Alabamians continue to have access to vital IVF services.”
There are already efforts underway in Alabama to try and undo the Supreme Court’s embryo decision, clarifying under state law that frozen embryos, “fertilized human eggs stored outside of a uterus are not considered human beings under state law.”
The Republican Attorney General in Alabama, Steve Marshall, has said nary a word about the embryo decision. Guess he’s laying low to see which way the wind blows.
It’s going to get even clearer that the wind is not behind the backs of the dogmatic religious zealots.
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A longitudinal study of opinion by religious sect would be interesting.
In 1990, the Catholic Church hired a PR firm for its pro-life campaign.
LisaM, a commenter above, asked about the sudden, “blow-up.” Are there any insights about why judges like the Seven Mountains Christian, Chief Justice in Alabama, decided, after Roe, to make the frozen embryos a case? (The New Republic’s recent article about frozen embryos references the pipeline already in place for legal cases just waiting for SCOTUS’ ruling in Roe)
The jurists who delivered the Roe overturn, which sect do they belong to?
Which sect does Leonard Leo (9 kids), credited with the Federalist’s Society’s success in getting conservative judges confirmed, belong to?
Are there centralized religious “conferences”, joined at the hip with high level clergy in almost all states, that hire lobbyists and mobilize voters for anti-abortion campaigns? Which sects do the “conferences” belong to?
The clinics (some paid for with tax dollars) that are set up to channel
women and girls away from abortion and pharmaceutical birth control, which sect(s) are they from? What are the affiliation ratios?
Just mild curiosity, democracy, is there any reason for the total omission of Catholic? Why the desperation to pin anti-abortion success on Christian protestants? I hope commenter, Joel reads your comment.
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Rolling Stone, 9-12-2022, “The Catholic Church is bankrolling a nationwide assault on women’s rights.”
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This religious craziness has got to stop. Every free thinking person must stand up to any religious fanatic pushing a theocratic based government.
Here’s an excerpt from an article in The Nation referring to what an Alabama Supreme Court justice thinks & said:
–By citing verses from the Bible and Christian theologians in his concurring opinion, Chief Justice Tom Parker alarmed advocates for church-state separation, while delighting religious conservatives who oppose abortion.
Human life, Parker wrote, “cannot be wrongfully destroyed without incurring the wrath of a holy God, who views the destruction of His image as an affront to Himself.”–
I highly recommend that all of you, as well as anyone within your reach, join & support any or all of these organizations. They are all fighting for the idea that our Founding Fathers CREATED A GOVERNMENT THAT IS, AND SHOULD BE SECULAR, NOT RELIGIOUS BASED. We all must continue to refute the Christian Nationalists efforts to depict our country as a Christian nation. If some of the Founders were believers in any way, they still wanted freedom of, and freedom from religion, especially in our government.
Please support the following:
Freedom From Religion Foundation
https://ffrf.org/
American Humanist Association
https://americanhumanist.org/
Americans United for Separation of Church & State
https://www.au.org/
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Thanks for the list.
Evangelicals are new to the anti-IVF dogma.
2019, “Breaking Evangelicalism’s silence on IVF,” posted at The Gospel Coalition.org
On the other hand, a post at Santa Clara University describes the Vatican’s attempt starting in March, 1987, to influence not just Roman Catholics against IVF but also to, “influence national legislation worldwide on biomedical issues.” The Vatican document condemned artificial insemination, IVF and surrogate motherhood under all circumstances.”
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You’re welcome. I hope more people join & support these organizations.
I don’t care what the Vatican promotes, or what evangelicals of every stripe promote. KEEP YOUR RELIGION TO YOURSELF! Worship & believe what you want—just don’t impose your beliefs on others who don’t believe what you do. Think of a Taliban-like Christian theocratic leader in power here in the US. Oh wait-we already have one in Mike Johnson as Speaker of the House. Imagine him & a Theocratic president teaming up to bring us all into a task life Handmaid’s Tale.
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It’s closer to reality than we suspect.
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