Robert Hubbell is a blogger who writes consistently insightful, common sense commentaries. In this one, he makes an important point. What happened to outrage?
I recall when presidential candidate Senator Gary Hart of Colorado dropped out of the race after the press got photos of him on a boat with a woman who was not his wife. Imagine that! I remember when a president (Nixon) was forced to resign his office because he lied about his role in burgling the offices of the Democratic National Committee. At least official Washington had public standards of behavior. Republican Senator Howard Baker of Tennessee was as appalled by Nixon’s behavior as members of the other party. Yet Lamar Alexander, who claimed Baker as his role model, twice refused to vote to impeach Trump for violating his oath of office and for actions far more dangerous than anything Nixon did, even though Alexander was retiring.
Hubbell wrote this before the Uvalde school massacre. Watch the process: Americans are outraged. The media are outraged. What happens next? Our attention shifts. Uvalde fades, as Sandy Hook faded, as Parkland faded, as Buffalo will fade.
The capacity for outrage—in the political class, in the media, and in the public— seems to have vanished.
Hubbell writes:
“The apparent death of outrage is one factor driving many Americans to distraction, if not despair. Stories that would have shaken the foundations of democracy a decade ago barely reverberate for a single news cycle today. Quick! Answer this question: What was the biggest story of last Friday (as in two days ago)? It is that the wife of a sitting Supreme Court justice actively encouraged Arizona legislators to overthrow the Constitution by appointing fraudulent electors. The January 6th Committee previously discovered that Ginni Thomas forwarded emails from other election deniers to members of the Trump administration, but the most recent revelation clarifies that Ginni Thomas was a direct participant in the plot to subvert democracy. But by Sunday evening, the story has dropped from the pages of every major newspaper in America.
And, of course, Justice Clarence Thomas reviewed Mark Meadows’ request to block the disclosure of emails and texts from Ginni Thomas about the attempted coup. Before the endless stream of Trump scandals killed outrage, those facts would have prompted Justice Thomas to submit his resignation and spend the remainder of his life in solitude and shame. Instead, Thomas is on a revenge tour at the Antonin Scalia School of Law, where he is scolding women for protesting an impending decision that will grant state governments control over their reproductive choices.
Over the weekend, Senator Rick Scott couldn’t find the decency to say that leaders of the GOP should condemn white supremacy. Talking Points Memo, Scott Deflects On Whether GOPers Should Condemn White Nationalism. Scott agreed that racism was bad and that “all Americans” should condemn “any hate” and “any white supremacy,” but repeatedly dodged the question of whether Republican leaders had a responsibility to do so. Instead, he volunteered that “We have to stop asking people on government forms for their skin color” and “every Senate candidate on both sides is going to decide what is important to them”—evasions that leave room for his Republican colleagues to wink-and-nod to white supremacists on the campaign trail.
Also over the weekend, the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) held its annual meeting in Hungary so that Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán could lecture aspiring American autocrats on how to subvert “illiberal democracy.” The panel of speakers included Trump, Tucker Carlson, and a Hungarian journalist infamous for writing that Jews are “stinking excrement,” that Roma are “animals,” and that Black people are [unprintable]. See Times of Israel, Hungarian journalist who called Jews’ stinking excrement’ addresses CPAC conference. Do either Trump or Carlson feel any need to distance themselves from the reprehensible views of their co-presenter? Ha! It was not worth the electrons to type that rhetorical question on my laptop.
On Friday of last week, Louisiana Senator Bill Cassidy attempted to explain away the high maternal mortality rates in his state. Cassidy made the following repugnant statement:
About a third of our population is African American; African Americans have a higher incidence of maternal mortality. So, if you correct our population for race, we’re not as much of an outlier as it’d otherwise appear.
See Business Insider, Maternal death rate isn’t as bad if you don’t count Black women, GOP senator says. Cassidy’s statements were so offensive it is difficult to know where to begin. To be clear, Louisiana’s maternal death rate among Black women is worse than the maternal death rate for Black women in other states, so Cassidy’s racist statistics are wrong. But what does Cassidy mean, “if you correct our population for race?” By “correcting” for race, Cassidy clearly implies that the “correct” race in Louisiana is white. But Cassidy’s comments have been largely ignored by the mainstream media.
And then there is Dr. Oz, who went out of his way on election night thank Fox News personality Sean Hannity for helping his campaign. That would be the same Sean Hannity who was busy trashing one of Dr. Oz’s opponents in the primary (the late-surging Kathy Barnette) as Hannity acting as a a “behind the scenes advisor” to Oz. See Dan Rather and Elliot Kirschner in Steady, Crossing the Line. Rather and Kirschner write that Fox News “is a functional arm of the Party of Trump.” Does anyone care? As Rather astutely observes,
Needless to say, if a reporter at a news organization other than Fox supported a candidate with half as much complicity as Hannity did Dr. Oz, it would be grounds for immediate termination. Not surprisingly, at Fox News, Hannity’s actions don’t even earn a slap on the wrist.
And therein lies the problem: The capacity for outrage is becoming a one-way street. Hannity can break all rules of journalistic independence, and no one cares. Senator Cassidy can suggest that Blacks are not part of Louisiana’s “correct” race, and no major mainstream sources bother to report on the comments. The wife of a Supreme Court justice can encourage insurrection, and the justice goes on the attack against “liberals.” But . . . If any of those situations were reversed such that a liberal journalist, Democratic Senator, or liberal justice was involved, the outrage from the right would be unending, unforgiving, and shrill.
We must not lose our capacity for outrage. We cannot allow insurrection to be normalized. We cannot allow the sheer volume and velocity of GOP scandals to overwhelm and exhaust us. Indeed, we must recognize that conservatives try to turn outrage to their benefit by making more of it—to provoke “outrage fatigue.”
The wife of a supreme court justice participated in an attempted coup. That fact is outrageous and should matter to every American and should remain on the front pages of every newspaper in America until the justice resigns or recuses himself from all election-related cases.
More one-sided reporting in WaPo.
The Washington Post is running a story in its Monday edition, Democrats See Headwinds in Georgia, and Everywhere Else. The subheader says that Democratic candidates will “be running against President Biden’s low ratings as well as their G.O.P. rivals.” The article accurately reports on the challenges facing Democrats but does not acknowledge that Republicans are led by a twice-impeached failed coup-plotter who insists on absolute allegiance to a disproven conspiracy theory and has led the effort to deny women the right to control their reproductive choices.
About two-thirds of the way through the story, the author makes a nod to the difficulties faced by the GOP—but only by describing comments from a Republican voter:
[Democrats] need to do more to communicate clearly with voters that they are a steady hand at the wheel of getting the economy back on track for people.” Ms. Bourdeaux said. But she, too, saw a chance to draw a sharp contrast with what she described as ascendant far-right Republicans. “The other side, candidly, has lost its mind,” she said, pointing to efforts to restrict voting rights and abortion rights.
Hmm . . . if a Democratic voter had said that the Democratic Party “has lost its mind,” that would be the headline in the article. Oh, and here is the clincher: The author concedes near the end of the article that “Most polling shows a close race for [Georgia] governor and Senate, with a slight Republican advantage.”
Got that? The races for Governor and Senator in Georgia are “close,” but the story focuses on “headwinds” faced by Democrats because of the economy and Biden, with almost no mention of the challenges for the GOP created by an out-of-control Trump, reversal of Roe v. Wade, and unrestrained concealed carry of handguns by June.
More accurate headlines for the article could include, “One reporter’s attempt to trash the Democrats by rehashing the economy and Biden’s favorability ratings” or “According to one Republican voter, ‘The GOP has lost its mind.’” I will let you choose your favorite headline or suggest alternatives in the Comments section or by reply email to me.
Concluding Thoughts.
There is an old joke that goes like this: “I just flew into Las Vegas and, boy, are my arms tired.” My wife and I just spent forty-eight hours taking care of one granddaughter while simultaneously pinch-hitting with a second granddaughter for eight hours on Saturday, and boy, are my arms tired! It was tough writing the newsletter tonight because I could not get the words of the literary classic Good Dog Carl Visits the Zoo out of my mind. (Reading a book out-loud dozens of times over the course of forty-eight hours will do that to you.) A sign of my desperation is that I was delighted to take a mental break by watching The Little Mermaid after failed multiple failed attempts to get our granddaughter to take a nap. Let me say that The Little Mermaid is an underappreciated classic that deserves a place alongside The Godfather and Citizen Kane (at least that’s how I feel tonight).
In lieu of my own closing thoughts (which are often the most challenging part of the newsletter to write), I include a list of Democratic candidates to support, supplied by Ellie Kona. Many of you may know Ellie as a frequent commenter on Heather Cox Richardson’s newsletter on Substack, Letters from an American. Per Ellie, “Here is a handy-dandy list of Dems to support, along with their Twitter handles (courtesy of Nick Knudsen):
PA Gov: @JoshShapiroPA
PA Sen: @JohnFetterman
PA Lt Gov: @AustinDavisPA
NC Sen: @CheriBeasleyNC
NC-01: @DonDavisNC
NC-13: @wileynickel
OR Gov: @TinaKotek
OR-04: @ValHoyle
OR-06: @AndreaRSalinas
Provided by NickKnudsen at DemCast

I agree with the author’s main thesis that there has been a destructive loss of outrage.
I — and I differ from most here in having negative feelings towards both parties — believe the author is wrong to put a partisan slant on this. Personally, I trace the death of outrage to the actions of a brilliant and charismatic Democratic president who got away with an affair with an intern (and other actions) that would have gotten any of us fired.
The author totally misunderstood, misread, and misrepresented the comments of Democratic Congresswoman, Carolyn Bourdeaux of Georgia…somehow labeling her as “a Republican voter.” His mistake completely refutes his own point, as it was Representative Bourdeaux (who is really talented), a Democrat, who was indeed calling the Republicans “out of their mind.”
I don’t want to make this thread a partisan battle, because I completely agree with the overriding point. But, as those of us fighting the battle for public education know better than anyone, we have been betrayed by politicians and media from both sides of the aisle. And that is something truly worthy of outrage.
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I’m with you 100%. Reagan invited the circus to come to town and Clinton opened up the tent flaps and the circus nightmare with its creepy clowns hit center stage. It’s been a true disaster for “We the Peons” ever since. It doesn’t matter who we vote for or what side we elect, the results are always the same…..big business and Wall Street win and “We the Peons” lose. “We the Peons” have been driven into a state of Learned Helplessness by the constant gaslighting (both sides and the MSM) and we just can’t cope any longer. I think this is what our elite class and our elite politicians have wanted all along. I’m tired of voting for the lesser of 2 evils…. and so are many other “Peons”.
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I am not tired of voting for the non-Trump party, I am not tired of voting for the Democrats who put Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Stephen Breyer, Elena Kagan, Sonia Sotomayor, Ketanji Brown Jackson, etc., on the SCOTUS. The parties are not the same, not even close, one party has gone off the rails into unchartered territories of far right wing/libertarian hellishness. One party wants to ban abortions and make guns more available……BIG difference. The GOP stands in the way of any sane gun legislation.
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Grateful for you, LisaM. This isn’t about partisanship. This is about power, money and control. And Education is a microcosm of the big picture.
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Lisa, whether or not you are tired of voting for the lesser of two evils, that’s the only way to take action. When you don’t vote, the greater evil wins, and how’s that working out?
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Lisa, at least you’re in a swing state (I think) where your vote matters. I could vote for my pants—or commit systematic voter fraud to funnel thousands of votes for my pants—and it would have no impact in a general election.
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Ohio Algebra II Teacher,
Since you think it doesn’t matter, then you are simply dishonest. Those of us lucky enough to send our kids to public schools in New York – despite their problems – instead of public schools in Ohio know you are dishonest but maybe if you and Lisa M keep promoting your lies you can turn New York and New Jersey into Ohio.
I love the folks who vote for Republicans and then try to convince voters in other states to join them in empowering Republicans because hey, Ohio, New York, both are equally bad.
I heard liars making the same argument about union teachers. Schools with union teachers are just as bad as schools without them. Who cares? The union doesn’t do anything. Why even vote to support it — if it disappeared it would be the same thing.
Amazon makes that argument and MANY workers agree with them.
You make the same false equivalencies between Dems and Republicans that people make between union and non-union schools. “No difference” so why not let Republicans and non-union schools take over our country. No difference. Don’t bother trying to stop it because it doesn’t matter.
As a parent, I will be sure to push that narrative to all the parents I know so they can learn that even teachers say don’t bother to support the union anymore. Are you happy now?
Ohio, New York, what’s the difference, right? I will definitely stop voting for Dems so those Republicans can take over, because who cares?? No difference. Why not outlaw the union? No difference.
So sick of the people whose false equivalencies got us into this mess whining about how it’s someone else’s fault.
Why not make New York just like Ohio? NO DIFFERENCE, right?
Stop trying to ruin our state, with all its’ flaws, by turning it into Ohio with your lies.
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I’ll respectfully disagree with you, NYC public school parent (despite your disrespectful disagreement). First of all, I never said whom I voted for, but I can tell you that I have never voted for President Trump. Despite your assertions, I am not dishonest. You can say I see things differently than you do, and you can say I see things wrongly. But just because I see things differently than you do, doesn’t mean I’m dishonest. Are you a teacher? I can tell you that — as a teacher — I’ve felt regularly betrayed by our national unions. That’s an honest feeling of betrayal. You can bully someone who differs with you (as you’ve done with many on here who disagree with you) all you want. Though I have lowest levels of esteem for Secretary DeVos, I do believe, ironically, she has been the best Secretary of Education for the cause of public education in the 21st century. Her example has exposed those like Democrats for Education Reform who have had no difference in policy or agenda — until this exposure. By contrast, Secretary Duncan was the worst.
Sometimes I vote “lesser of two evils.” Sometimes I don’t. With respect, Diane, because I so love and admire you, I haven’t seen any difference when I’ve voted “lesser of two evils” (President Obama may be the biggest disappointment in my lifetime).
NYCpsp, just because you have the name that you do, I don’t assume you speak for all New York or all parents (quite the opposite). I certainly don’t speak for all of Ohio. Or my city. Or my school. I am a single public school teacher (and parent) who speaks his mind about the problems facing our nation’s (and world’s) education. My discussion with you is person to person. I think civil disagreement is healthy and worthy in seeking actual truth and improvement. Lord knows we haven’t been moving in the right direction under administrations of either party (yes, I know you see things differently than I do on this point).
Do you want to try to convince me that you’re right and I’m wrong? Replying to me with respect goes a long way. I thoughtfully reflect on the words of many on here (Diane included) with whom I disagree. I’ve changed my mind on numerous important issues through the years. And on some I haven’t.
I think we all agree that we can do better.
Peace be with you.
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Thanks, Ohio Algebra II teacher. I try to be respectful to everyone who writes a comment. Sometimes it’s hard but I try.
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I repeat: Ohio is led by Republicans and their public schools reflect too many years of Republican rule.
New York’s public schools reflect having Democrats in power.
Either they are the same, or not.
I am very disappointed with the teachers’ union on many issues, just as you are.
I would never, ever, try to push any narrative that attempted to convince the public that there is absolutely no difference between having public schools with teachers’ unions or banning the teachers’ union altogether.
If I ONLY focused on what the teachers union failed to do, I could post here all the time to make that case. Look over here how that union public school is still failing. Look over here at that abusive teacher who can’t get fired. Let’s just talk about all the bad and negative things that teachers’ union does. Let’s NEVER talk about anything good that the teachers’ union does because that would be as much of a waste of time as talking about any of the positives of having Dems in power.
When you maximize and amplify the flaws of the teachers union and pretend the good doesn’t exist, you go a long way toward getting the public to agree that teachers’ unions are a waste of time and who cares if they are gone or have no power at all anymore.
The same is true of the Dems. And legitimizing this hurts the union and it hurts the Dems and it does absolutely nothing to solve any of those major problems you believe the union has. Unless you think by empowering those who want to destroy it, you can make it better.
Diane Ravitch understands how to criticize without DEMONIZING or pushing the lie that there is no difference.
One can criticize the teachers’ union without demonizing it and pushing the lie that whether or not the union has power or is gone makes no difference. Same with the Dems.
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Thank you for that respectful reply, NYCpsp.
There are many things I agree with you on. Yes, the Republican rule in Ohio has been harmful to public education. No state official has been worse than Governor Kasich (he’s up there with Secretary Duncan with regards to my personal esteem). The GOP-dominated Fordham Institute-led state legislature has made one wrong step after another. This has been ongoing for many, many years — no disagreement there. (Btw, for as bad as our Republican governors have been on education policy, none imo have been as bad as Andrew Cuomo was. Am I wrong on that?)
I do distinguish local school unions with the national ones. The demonization of local unions — which is what typical Ed Reformers do — is misguided. There are anecdotal stories which often get generalized into a large narrative that hurts public schools as a whole. When I hear Ed Reformers criticize teacher unions, I’m thinking they’re unfairly attacking local ones. I am with you 100% on this.
The national unions are a different story. I can’t think of a single area where they have been helpful to the teachers in this country. They were validating (and maybe critical) in the implementation of many of the worst policies put into place by No Child Left Behind and Race to the Top. They took Gates money and backed presidential candidates without securing anything positive in return (and did so without taking any account of what the membership thinks). The national unions have made teachers as a whole look bad and turned teachers unions all over into a pinata. Correct me if I’m wrong on this (surely there is some issue the national unions have been helpful on, but I truly don’t know what it is). I’m not sure if you categorize this as demonization or fair criticism (probably the former), but I’m wondering why I’ve seen no change in well over 20 years of observing.
The national unions are held up by Ed Reformers as all-powerful, yet they accomplish nothing with that so-called power. My biggest issue is the overuse, misuse and misapplication of testing (including the use of standardized testing in teacher evaluations). The national unions have failed us on these issues. Every Secretary of Education has failed us on these issues. Every President (since the time they’ve had an impact) has failed us on these issues.
So we look like we disagree on the national unions. I’ve also been so disappointed with the Democratic officeholders who have had the opportunity to make a difference. Senator Patty Murray (chair of the committee that manages education policy) has led one disappointing effort after another. The Obama Administration was horrendous. Candidate Biden gave some hope. Still waiting to see something positive. Of course, though it has my greatest attention, education is just a small aspect of what I look for in a president. But with regards to education (and I say this with all respect and sincerity, NYCpsp), I’ve seen no difference from W to Obama to Trump to Biden. (A Democratic Party Governor for whom I have high regard for is Kentucky Governor Andy Beshear. Governor Beshear has publicly supported public school teachers in a way very, very few officeholders have.)
I will continue to read your posts, NYCpsp, with fair consideration. Though you’re probably still upset with me (my honest views), I hope you will consider the disagreement respectful in our common mission to improve public education in our wonderful country.
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Stick around, Ohio Algebra II Teacher. The comments section here could use some new blood.
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Ohio Algebra II Teacher,
First of all, thank you for your thoughtful reply and your comprehensive defense of your perspective. I respect those who, like you, actually defend their comments instead of doubling down on talking points.
In general, we agree on many things. I think much of this comes down to what I think of as “framing”. Now that probably sounds unimportant, but it is the Republicans’ (and ed reformers’) successful re-framing of every single issue so that the discussions are only on the terms where it always benefits them, that has led to so many folks believing some of the worst lies about public education and Dems.
And your framing is very dangerous to the future of democracy and public education. It amplifies the divisions, not the commonalities.
“(Btw, for as bad as our Republican governors have been on education policy, none imo have been as bad as Andrew Cuomo was. Am I wrong on that?)”
I despise Andrew Cuomo, but not only are you completely wrong about that, but you repeated the kind of propaganda that makes people hate public schools and Democrats. If that is your goal, have at it, but when they come for the unions, just remember that first they came for other people based on similar nonsense. Cuomo, as bad as he was, was not even in the ballpark of what Ohio Republicans are. And if he had been, the Democrats in Albany would have stopped him whereas the Republicans in Columbus enabled the worst excesses.
Cuomo, like an ever DEcreasing number of Democrats, believed the hype of the non-profit charter networks that they could provide a great alternative to the many low-income non-white families in high poverty communities whose schools were hurting. No doubt Cuomo’s reasons for believing that were entirely self-serving, but that was a popular narrative amplified constantly in the NYT. That false narrative helped undermine inner city public schools, but Cuomo was not looking to provide a free for all for billionaires to profit from public ed, and Ohio was and continues to be a disaster because of that. NY is not.
Cuomo was the type of Democrat that believed in demonizing other Democrats to prove his “moderate” creds. I find Cuomo to be just as reprehensible as those on the left who believe in demonizing other Democrats to prove their progressive creds to the right wing.
AOC doesn’t do that. Bernie doesn’t do that. Very few self-described progressives do that, but a perfect example of someone with the moral compass of Andrew Cuomo is Tulsi Gabbard. They both specialize in proving themselves acceptable to the right wing by attacking Democrats.
Another talking point you post: ” I’ve seen no difference from W to Obama to Trump to Biden. (A Democratic Party Governor for whom I have high regard for is Kentucky Governor Andy Beshear. Governor Beshear has publicly supported public school teachers in a way very, very few officeholders have.)”
I like Beshear. I disliked Obama’s policies. But if you believe there was “no difference” with Trump, then you weren’t paying attention to the huge budget increases for non-public schools during the Trump era and the continued demonization of union teachers.
And the “conservative” Democrats who were elected Governor in Virginia over the last few terms single-handedly prevented the privatization of public schools in Virginia. If you believe Youngkin will be no worse, I have a far right wing Supreme Court to sell you that those who voted in the 2016 election were happy to have as long as they could “send a message”.
We could already have the end of Citizens United if the folks didn’t buy into the propaganda that there is no difference between Dems and Republicans.
We agree on the national teachers’ union. How do they get elected? Do you really think you can demonize — not criticize but DEMONIZE — the national teachers’ union and not have it blow back on you the way the non-stop demonization of the Democrats by both the right and some complicit folks on the left blows back on all Democrats?
Why can’t you make your national union more responsible? “Some folks” say that it is because there is something inherently corrupt about the teachers’ union. “Some folks” say the union only cares about protecting lazy or criminal teachers and not kids. No wonder so many teachers now say they don’t care if there is a union in some places. They have been brainwashed by only hearing how bad the national union is and believe there is nothing good their local union can do for them.
Whenever someone asks that the union or the Democrats not be demonized with false narratives, they get attacked by those who claim “you just want us to say the teachers’ union is perfect. You just want us to say that the Dems are perfect”. Wrong.
Once again, I urge you to look at how Diane Ravitch, how Bernie Sanders, how AOC and how the smartest people understand how to be critical without using right wing talking points.
Or better yet, look at the Republicans. They may disagree, but they never demonize the other side. Boy do I wish they would. Instead, they continue to grow in power.
Putin’s propaganda is about sowing dissent in the US. He wins when there is a lot of dissent and division.
Right wing Republicans’ propaganda is about sowing dissent in the Democratic party. They win when there is a lot of dissent and division.
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Well argued, NYCpsp. You’ve provided much to think about. And you’re so right that for every Secretary DeVos, who is somewhat of a self-parody, there may be 50 Governors Youngkin and DeSantis with a veneer of respectability and with much stronger capability of promoting their messages. Your point about Cuomo was interesting to me, because I found him to be savage towards teachers at the height of Ed Reform. Worth revisiting. The issue of the national unions is one that requires some kind of action. Your point that harsh criticism (demonization!) of the national unions — fair though it might be — is certain to redound to the local unions that actually play a beneficial role. It’s hard not to feel anger towards these institutions which if they ever had the power to hinder Education Reform, they don’t have it now. So what can be done to bring about change that hasn’t occurred for decades without having the self-destructive side effect of promoting an overall anti-union narrative? Does Randi Weingarten read Diane’s blog (I doubt it, though I know they are friends)?
Looking forward to future discussions.
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My guess: Randi does not read every entry but she occasionally sends a comment on one that gets her attention. Unlike me, she has a day job.
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Thank you again for your thoughtful reply, Ohio Algebra II Teacher. I look forward to future discussions.
Just wanted to also add that I am very sympathetic to your criticisms of the national union and I definitely support teachers like you continuing to be critical of the national union and hold its feet to the fire! Thank you for doing so. It’s more the framing of the criticism I sometimes object to. I probably despise Andrew Cuomo more than you do! (But not as much as the Ohio Republicans who have done so much harm in that state.)
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Ohio Algebra II Teacher– you are probably wrong as to people here not having problems with both parties. I doubt if any here of us older folks are happy about Dem’s neoliberal move to the right after the last “real” Dems, McGovern and Muske. Carter for me was a no-brainer after 8 yrs of Nixon [/Ford]. He did a few good things but I was highly displeased with his dereg moves—yet not so foolish as to fall for Reagan’s thinly-disguised libertarianism. Clinton for me was simply a way out from under 12 disastrous years under Rep presidential admins. Like Carter but better: a few very good things, but ultimately more neoliberalism. Obama: same thing. The picture today between the two parties is starkly different, and has been since advent of Tea Party in 2009.
My feelings about the Clinton scandal: he was impeached, OK? That’s a lot worse than censure. IMHO, that was the punishment suitable to the crime. Why did he not “lose his job” (as you correctly say any of us would have)? (1)he was not like you or I, he was president of nation with less than 2 [of 8] yrs to go : putting him out of his job would have meant an upset to a large nation’s govt. The risks have to be measured against the nature of the breach of conduct (2)the thing he was impeached for was lying under oath, which in many circumstances would require resignation—but not in this instance [private, sexual]– the sort of situation where many ordinary people lie for many reasons which have nothing to do with governing the nation.
I think it is ridiculous to assign “the death of outrage” to a sexual peccadillo that merely impeached but did not remove a president from office.
The first true outrage I registered was SCOTUS Citizens’ United decision– & felt it again when Alito had the nerve to openly badmouth President Obama as he critiqued the decision during the state of the union address. And I’ve felt outrage since, every time Congressional Republicans (led by McConnell) have chosen to eschew any compromise with Dems, any support for any Dem legislative initiative– turning our legislature into some kind of absurd imitation of a sports league contest.
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Thank you, NY Algebra II Teacher and nycpsp for this excellent exchange. I would just like to hear a little bit more about what you think as to the role of teachers unions v-a-v fed Dept of Ed policy.
I have always thought of teachers unions as being like any union, i.e., negotiating with employers for best salaries and benefits and working conditions available, and providing legal defense for teachers whose employers seek to fire or demote them, demanding appropriate evidence of malfeasance.
But more and more lately (increasing over the last 15 years) I hear teachers demanding their unions take a stand on fed/ state govt policy that demeans/ deprofessionalizes their jobs, as well as promoting the closing of ‘low-test-scoring’ schools, while promoting the opening/ expansion of non-union alternatives. Those policies are all under the umbrella of NCLB, RTTT, ESSA.
Do you think union leaders should take positions on this? Personally I do, because these policies directly affect working conditions— whether you’re in a union or not— they affect all teachers. But our union leaders have been slow to pick up this baton. Perhaps wondering if that’s their mission—perhaps thinking their mission is simply to work with conditions as presented to them on the ground…?
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Diane I am good with this note and even enjoyed reading it. However, SOME of the press remain outraged. We should tell the writer to tune in to Morning Joe and watch Joe Scarborough scream at the camera on MSNBC. It’s embarrassing sometimes, but the maybe not-so-odd thing is that he is a veteran Republican who left the party in disgust when it became “Trump.” It apparently hasn’t done much good because most seem to have lost whatever conscience they might have one had.
But my of-late thought, after culture watching for some time now (and I happened upon a Steve Wilco show yesterday), is that it has come down NOT to Republican against Democrat; and NOT even democracy against authoritarianism; but in fact, civilization and culture against civility and the intelligent, reasonable, and moral/ethical threads that keep a culture … uh . . . .cultured. We are watching a good thing die. CBK
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A frightening thought, CBK. Underneath it all, I am guessing, is social media. Three weeks from now, Morning Joe will be following the next big thing. Maybe sooner.
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There is outrage out there, but this outrage is for all the wrong reasons and is being generated by really easy to manipulate, dumb, and dangerous people.
Outrage against wearing masks in public during a pandemic.
Outrage that Traitor Trump had the election stolen from him.
Outrage against vaccines that offers protection against diseases caused by viruses.
Outrage that women should have a choice when it comes to abortion even after being raped by anyone, even a brother or father.
Outrage that anyone would dare to pass laws to protect children from being mowed down by mass murderess with AR-15s.
Outrage that Disney is sexualizing children.
Outrage and threats at public school board meetings that K-12 children are being taught something they are not being taught, CRT.
Outrage often followed by threats for not supporting Traitor Trump’s BIG LIE by lying for him.
Outrage for alleged liberals accused of anything without evidence but no outrage for conservatives caught with solid evidence of lying, stealing, cheating, caught doing anything morally reprehensible and/or illegal.
In short, there is outrage, for all the wrong reasons by allegedly some of the stupidest people on the planet.
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**Lloyd Lofthouse” It’s called “the politicization of ignorance” CBK
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Great points, LLOYD. All of the outrage you describe is manufactured and manipulated to keep the base in line.
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Yes. The oligarchy spends billions and billions to keep the Trumpanzees riled up so that they can get what they want–free rein to pollute and cheat and steal the value of the labor of the very people being duped. Consider the example of Elon Musk. He was fine playing the slightly progressive, visionary billionaire until a) people started talking a lot about taxing billionaires more heavily and b) he was caught having to pay off a steward in a sexual harassment case. Then, suddenly, he wants to buy Twitter, says he’s going to invite The Idiot back to the platform, and starts talking about conservative voices being silenced and conservatives being cancelled. Suddenly, he needs to buy a media platform with enormous and politically significant reach–you know, the way Rupert Murdoch bought Fox and The Wall Street Journal.
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Lloyd BTW, if your note reflects the “politicization of ignorance,” and it does, then we are also looking, somewhere along the line, at the complicity of education over the last 60 or so years . . . an education that is particularly suited to raising up people who understand political issues and particularly the great differences between democracy, capitalism, kingships (tribal), and various forms of authoritarianism . . AKA HISTORY.
And I am not blaming teachers here, but short-sighted and morally compromised corporations, institutions, and policy-makers. CBK
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I’m pretty damned outraged about sending $40 billion in weapons to nazis while Americans are sleeping in the streets and not able to feed themselves and their babies, does that count? Anyone else here share that outrage? No? Okay, shrug.
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Sometimes your conscious ignorance is beyond belief. The European nations are all lined up in support of the “Ukranian nazis” instead of supporting the Russian “patriots.” R-i-g-h-t…
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Anyone else share the outrage that someone here is posting right wing propaganda telling progressives that they better choose what they support because there isn’t enough money to do both? Notice that dienne77 doesn’t talk about raising taxes on billionaires to allow us to do MORE instead of always choosing as dienne77 says we must.
Let’s take dienne77’s agenda even further. How dare anyone support Medicare for All when there are people on the street? How dare anyone give more money to public schools when some people don’t have healthcare?
Notice dienne77 didn’t say “raise taxes on the rich”. Why not?
Because she would rather call Putin’s victims “Nazis” than spend a penny to help them. She would rather NOT raise taxes on the rich if that means also helping Putin’s victims.
These are the same false choices the far right always presents.
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NYCPSP,
I think you mischaracterize Dienne. I’m fairly certain she wants government to spend more on social welfare and would readily endorse raising taxes on the billionaires. Where we differ is that she thinks Zelensky and all Ukrainians are Nazis, which is absurd. A Jewish Nazi. She echoes whatever Putin says. She accepts his propaganda as truth. I don’t understand that.
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Diane,
But what I object to is her framing. She is basically using innuendo and accusing those of us who support giving money to Ukraine of MAKING A CHOICE to give money to Ukraine instead of to progressive issues like homelessness and feeding hungry babies.
That’s propaganda. She is fomenting outrage against the people who support Ukraine by presenting it as a choice not to give money to hungry babies.
This is the 3rd or 4th right wing propaganda talking point she had tried, and often the talking points contradict one another. (We have always been at war with Oceania. We have never been at war with Oceania.)
First, Putin has no plant to attack.
Then, Putin just attacked some Nazis.
Then, Putin attacked because the US made them, it’s the US’ fault.
Then back to Ukraine is Nazis.
Now the latest one is: let Ukraine fall to Putin because if you don’t you are starving babies and keeping people on the streets and “I am just outraged” that you don’t care about the homeless or hungry babies.
I find it hard to believe anyone could be that brainwashed to believe both that we have always been at war with Oceania and we have never been at war with Oceania. It’s been decades, but I recall that even in “1984”, there seemed to be suggestions that people believed the lies because they understood it was in their own self-interest to accept the newest lie as the truth. Not that they were really brainwashed into believing “1+1 = 2 “one day and that “1 + 1 = 3 and has always equaled 3” the next day
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I share the outrage over distribution of wealth and a non-progressive taxation here in the USA. It’s unforgivable. With you on that!
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And despite the innuendoes in that comment, I think nearly everyone here, especially Diane Ravitch, shares that outrage, and dienne77 knows that.
So what was the point of “Anyone else here share that outrage? No? Okay, shrug.”? The outrage was that we were spending any money to help Ukraine stop the takeover by neo-fascist Putin of their very young and fragile democracy.
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Dienne
There may be agreement for you at the Splice Today site. While reading about Rob Dreher’s divorce, I found the following. “How did I miss the news that Rod Dreher, my only competitor for primacy among Russian Orthodox/paleocon/pro-Russian world super intellectuals is getting divorced…The Russian military is making thrilling progress in its anti-Nazi war….”
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I’m done responding to Dienne77. Hopeless. Utterly incapable of seeing the obvious. Ideological blindness.
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An excellent, succinct Russian history of foreign policy (about 10 paragraphs) leading up to and including Putin is posted at FP (Foreign Policy Magazine). 3-13-2022, “The Intellectual Catastrophe of Vladimer Putin”.
It explains the use of the miniscule Neo-Nazi story in Ukraine to gain popularity for Putin in Russia. The article explains the motivation of the few Putin supporters outside of Russia. And, it provides context for the role that orthodox spirituality plays in Russian leaders’ views.
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Or just read Moíses Naím’s “The Revenge of Power.” It’s basically a post-1989 primer, like a 21stC autocracy for dummies. It goes way back pre-1989 & then gets you smarter on how leaders of post-Fall-of-Iron-Curtain nations—most of them “democracies”– work to position their countries as apparent democracies, then move them toward autocracy by hollowing out the democratic features from within. The methods you describe are routine, and parallel what goes on in many other countries (including our own).
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Thanks bethree
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Waiting for Susan Collins’ outrage against white supremacists, but her fear that calling them will inhibit them from changing.
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Susan Collins is shaking her head vigorously, and wagging her finger once — perhaps twice. (h/t to SNL and the incomparable Cecily Strong)
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meant to say–calling them out.
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The outrage dies down and then…business as usual. This ‘holier than thou’ stuff is sickening.
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So-called liberal MSM often goes too far in its search for sensationalism in
that much of what is covered is for ratings. It echoes the sentiment among Democrats who won’t vote for a candidate that is less-than-perfect and thus hand an election to the absolute worst person running…and I say this as someone who most identifies as a Progressive. Clinton lost the EC because not enough people could see through the lies and deceit of the GOP’s messaging about her. Supporters of both parties fell for it. What was the media’s role? Giving Trump the mic.
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Yup. Some might disagree with me, but I think taking the mic away from Sanders despite his amazing campaign contributed as well. A perspicacious MSM might have explored his positions and parsed out the differences with HRC positions and zeroed in on their common positions [despite her supposed majorly-neoliberal image which was mostly about wholesale attribution of her husband’s policies on her despite evidence to the contrary]… & contrasting them to Rep positions. MSM was just about the horse race.
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Absolutely agreed. Sanders was never going to be mainstream, but the media did their level best to avoid giving him a real platform. Trump? He was in the news every two minutes during his campaign. People certainly DO like to rubberneck by an accident.
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LG: rubbernecking an accident– the lookie-loos– what an inspired image! It’s precisely the response intended by media, and shapes the delivery of news as blow-by-blow commentary on a slow-motion trainwreck. Paralleling the politics of our day: the time-honored MO of populists/would-be autocrats, describing the current status of the nation as a travesty [which only they can repair, returning the nation to its former glory].
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Well if the narrative they sell gives them any kind of power or attention (which translates into a ratings kind of power), then they will run with it. I’m over the media, in general. I’m over the sensationalism of every single word or detail. We need journalistic analysts who see the big picture and ask the hard questions. We need bulldogs who won’t let a politician get away with ridiculous avoidance tactics. Just answer the question.
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Speaking of Hungary’s Orban, Rod Dreyer wrote at the American Conservative, 6-4-2021, “Orban protects Euro Christianity …”
Dreyer writes, “There are also irreconcilable differences in education policy.” Conservatives believe focus must be on “characteristic national traditions.” The “purpose of education” is for “children to be capable of becoming patriots….Christian democrats expect schools to reinforce sex identity,” the identity that the “creator conferred on them”…to help girls become fine and admirable women …to help boys become men who provide security and support for their families.
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Linda and all One grand and common oversight of many who claim to be Christian is what’s occurring in the Parables, and then again as but one example, with the Good Samaritan.
In my own view, Jesus was more “social democrat” that anyone alive today; and much of what goes by the name Christian is really a wraparound version of each person’s biases du jour. They do Christian service to no one, and especially not to the fundamental source of what they refer to as their tradition. CBK
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Agree, CBK. Jesus wept.
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I keep waiting for that “Do you have no shame “ speech that brought down Joe McCarthy. Alas, the current Republican Party has no shame and contemporary cable news doesn’t know how to ask questions.
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I’m always shocked when watching Democratic politicians in political debates. Wonkish, namby pamby answers. No saying it as it is. For example, that U.S. citizens pay TWICE as much for healthcare per capita as the average in the OECD but have WORSE outcomes because half their healthcare dollar is vacuumed up by blood-sucking healthcare RICOs in the insurance, pharmaceutical, hospital, and elder care industries. None of them will say, look, we are the only industrialized country that doesn’t have universal single payer healthcare, and all these other countries are existence proofs that those systems work better, have better outcomes. None but Bernie, ofc, but the national party treats Bernie as though he has the plague.
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So, I agree, Paul. It is long past time for Democrats to start using stronger language. They need to be saying, for example, “You claim to be the right-to-life party, but you are the party that is OK with teenagers buying assault weapons. How about those schoolkids’ right to life? You are the party of death. Of the death of little kids.”
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I agree with you, Bob. Not just stronger language but stronger actions. In blue states where Democrats dominate, they still are not not making the structural changes that they are capable of and that align with their very advertised values! I will never vote GOP, but I have no reservations pointing out severe improvements in the party I vote for. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/09/opinion/democrats-blue-states-legislation.html?fbclid=IwAR29qAiwZ3pCHUyYmjTVPALrN2fUBG2nux1zkyWCtEbeBVb5Vc8SSMbtM3g.
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When I see a Democratic presidential candidate stand on a debate stage and say that, I’ll think there is some hope for the party.
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It’s interesting that the DNC has admitted to having an image problem based on inadequate communications on their behalf and that they “need to do better to get our message out there!”
The NY Times has had articles about this. But I would contend that the DNC’s problem is not communication and image nearly as much as it is good old fashioned substance and actions. Same for the UFT and AFT.
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The DNC really needs to wake TF up. There is almost no moderate “center” left in the American electorate. The Republicans keep putting forward ideologues, and Democrats keep putting forward “moderates” to appeal to a center that increasingly doesn’t exist. This is a recipe for failure going forward. Trump lost this last time, barely, because blacks came out for Biden, not because Biden got a significant percentage of cross-over voters who liked the fact that he was a moderate. The Dems barely squeaked through this time. If they put up another moderate next time, they will lose, and the U.S. will become Desantistan.
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The freaking DNC ought to start listening to actual political scientists:
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-moderate-middle-is-a-myth/
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Bob, you are spot on! TY!
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Paul:
I think that someone already made it, but with all that is/has been going on, it was lost in space. (I, myself, can’t remember who recently said it. Does anyone here?)
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This is important, Paul. You have to ask what has changed so since Joseph Welch said “have you no sense of decency” to McCarthy– in 1960, toward the end of McCarthy’s 12-yr reign– that the same sort of invective is not launched against Mitch McConnell, or any number of Rep Senators, or SCOTUS member Alito. Or let’s go back further: against Newt Gingrich, or various Tea Party members, or IQ45, or any number of the MAGAs who rode his tails into Congress. That’s close to 30 yrs that our political leaders have not been able to call a spade a spade.
McCarthyism was the post-WWII “red scare,” and it lasted about 15 yrs. What is the “scare”we’re in now?
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Wake up and smell the apathy and decline.
Outrage has been gently and sweetly supplanted over the propagandized years by shopping malls, digital shopping, video games, vaping, mindless social media where anyone can post anything in brightly lit but banal lights to tell the world that their dog and baby look so cute sleeping together, cable subscriptions, bad fast food, opioids, guarded and gated communities (literally and figuratively) who feel they have theirs, so NIMBY, NIMBY, NIMBY), screen addiction, and instant internet porn.
But let’s also add the willful weakening of public education and public commons. Let’s add unfettered deregulation of all of the above in the name of freedom and capitalism for the few. Let’s add the willful monetization and commoditization of the Democratic Party, who once upon a time, really did represent more the interest of ordinary working class people. Let’s point out, if we choose to be sober, how some of the biggest unions switched to a collaborative model instead an adveriosal one, giving in too often at the expense of their members. And we cannot ignore the fanatics the GOP has become.
Combine those ingredients with indifference, intellectual laziness, a “me, mine, I first” attitude, learned helplessness, and it’s very easy to hand the machete over to the ruling class yonder down at the slaughterhouse.
Moo! Moo! Baaaaah! Baaaaah!
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Robeert Rendo Don’t worry, they’ll pray about it and, in so doing, turn religion in their whore too. CBK
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RRendo BTW, your post is going on my refrigerator door. CBK
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Thanks, Catherine! I hope you are well.
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Robert Rendo….If your post had a “like” button, I’d press it!
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Thank you, Lisa!
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“Outrage has been gently and sweetly supplanted over the propagandized years…”
I don’t get this at all.
OUTRAGE is what elected Trump. OUTRAGE is why the far right Supreme Court is going to set the rights of workers back for decades. OUTRAGE is why so many people in this country hate their public schools and believe that teachers unions are the source of all evil.
OUTRAGE is why so many states are passing laws to control what teachers can teach. OUTRAGE is why so many people think public schools are full of union teachers telling white students they are evil and teaching the youngest students they should be trans and gay.
OUTRAGE is why the far right has disproportionate power and is able to pass laws that don’t outrage all the apathetic folks who believe there is no difference between Dems and Republicans. That kind of OUTRAGE will destroy public schools and teachers unions. While we parents will buy into the apathy narrative that there is no difference between a school with a teachers’ union or without one.
One side is outraged at the teachers’ union. The other side is apathetic because they know whether or not there is a teachers’ union won’t make a difference.
Whose fault is that apathy? The union’s fault for not being perfect?
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NYC: I’m thinking as I’m reading these notes, now here’s an example of “The Death of Intelligent Discourse.” CBK
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CBK,
Yes, I would like to have a real discussion about why the Republicans are so good at using outrage to get voter to empower them, while our side is so good at pushing the narrative that it doesn’t matter who you vote for because nothing will change.
Interesting that the Republicans like Jacqui know very well that their vote matters because the Democrats are very different than the Republicans. While some on the left keep saying that there isn’t any difference and then condemning the apathy of Democratic voters.
There is no apathy in the Republican party. They will overturn an election and destroy democracy to win. While some on the left keep saying to the Dems that it just doesn’t matter.
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NYC Who’s saying it doesn’t matter? CBK
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Robert-
Read Jacqui’s comment below. She’s not apathetic. She’s a right wing religious woman who advances the efforts of the GOP in taking away women’s rights. The right of women to vote will follow the criminalization of pharmaceutical birth control.
Despite her obvious objection to abortion and gay rights derived from religious brainwashing, conservatives like her and Alito will be joined by liberals in the ruse that the issues are unrelated to conservative religious politicking. And, Leonard Leo and Robert P George have no interest in promoting their faith through court decisions and legislation (sarcasm).
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Linda,
Exactly my point. Thank you! The other side encourages outrage while too many folks on our side practically beg us to be apathetic because our vote won’t change anything because there is no difference anyway.
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NYC
The left’s PR strategy is to wait for conservative churches to post signs in their lawns in the central and southern states that say,
(1) “God is white, chauvinistic, Christian and straight”
(2) “The Federalist Society wants you on your knees while the judges rob you of your liberty”
(3) “Damn civil rights, we are the U.S.’ 3rd largest employer and we’re exempt”
(4) “Your tax dollars belong in our collection plates”
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Paul:
I think that someone already made it, but with all that is/has been going on, it was lost in space. (I, myself, can’t remember who recently said it. Does anyone here?)
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Oh please Robert Rendo, I don’t believe your first para for a second. [Granted you get closer as you move on.] But please let’s remember that shopping malls started in the ‘50’s, & consumer culture increased apace, & in short order teens were toking weed while little kids watched TV non-stop—many decades ago! And yet we still had ban the bomb protests, then civil rights protests, then anti-VNM war protests– non-stop from the late ‘50s through the mid-‘70s [not to mention nation-wide urban riots in late ‘60’s]—each and all of which resulted in changes in govt policy in response.
The ‘me, mine, I first’ stuff started taking over in the late ‘70s, coinciding with your 2nd para– coinciding with the shrinking of the national economical pie. The govtl response exacerbated it via deregulation, union-busting, offshoring of mfg jobs & profits, etc which swiftly resulted in spiraling costs for housing, healthcare, cost of college/ student debt crisis etc ad nauseum—shrinking middle class & sending bulk of national wealth to the top 1%-10%, putting them in a position to maintain/ increase power via buying the govt.
Small wonder folks are resigned now & can muster little outrage. They have seen for quite a while that their QOL is of no importance to the govt, & their votes have no effect against the leviathan of $$-influenced policy which runs the show. Why get outraged when it’s clear the game is rigged.
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I can agree with almost all that you say here. TY!
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I am outraged that Hillary and the dems. Including the FBI, pushed a phony Russia collusion hoax for four YEARS.
I’m outraged that the democrats staged an insurrection for the entire summer of 2020, burning, raping and pillaging with the approval of the democrat establishment.
I’m outraged that 63 Million babies have been murdered in their “mothers” womb, mostly minorities again…hmmmmm, democrats, minorities, what could go wrong?
I’m outraged that democrats want to push puberty blockers and transgenderism on vulnerable children. Sick groomers.
I’m outraged that democrats are pushing the CRT ideology through SEL and CASEL to teach some kids that they are perpetual victims and other kids that they are irredeemable oppressors.
I’m outraged that with the limited space in library shelves, democrats choose the worst dreck ever written to offer children.
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Jackie,
We live in different worlds. You believe every MAGA lie. I know they are lies.
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Thank you for proving exactly what I posted above in response to Robert Rendo.
Folks, I give you “outrage”.
The outrage that is going to destroy teachers’ unions and public schools. One side has outrage. like this.
The other side – expressed by some folks here, is that it just doesn’t matter since there is no difference, so we should just be apathetic and allow the Republicans to take over public schools since there is no difference, right? Who cares if teachers’ unions are banned? No difference.
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NYC: You didn’t answer my question: WHO is saying not to vote because it won’t matter? I’ve never heard that before you said it.
Also, the ones that I know on the right who have “drunk the poison” have traded their brains for their untutored emotional life. CBK
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CBK,
I am talking about the constant amplification of the far right-empowering narrative that “there is no difference between the Dems and Republicans, both sides are worthless”. That propaganda ONLY is directed toward our side and never toward hard core Republican side. The right wing knows there is a huge difference and they would overturn democracy if it means preventing a Dem from winning. Where as our side becomes apathetic hearing over and over again that having a Dem win won’t change a thing. If that was the case, why would Republicans rather end democracy altogether than have a Dem win?
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I am outraged that Trump laundered money for Russian mobsters for years. I’m outraged that the Russians handed 30 million dollars to the NRA, which turned that over to the Trump presidential campaign.
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Yup. The NRA funneled 30 million in Russian mobster money to the Trump campaign but didn’t register as a foreign lobbyist organization. But I guess you didn’t read about that on The Daily Stormer or wherever it is that you get your disinformation.
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Jaxquelinehart5598– OK, I’ll bite– on just one of your claims.
“the democrats staged an insurrection for the entire summer of 2020, burning, raping and pillaging with the approval of the democrat establishment.”
Let’s kill the “insurrection” bit off the top. Insurrection means people are rising up to overthrow their govt. The only place we’ve seen this is Jan 6 2021, when a group tried to stop the Congress from registering the electoral votes for the 2020 presidential election. The only other attempt at insurrection I know of is when armed protestors entered MI’s capitol in 2020, in an attempt to stop their governor’s mandated covid policies.
Let’s corral some facts—here are mine. I can only report as fact what happened near me in response to the video’d killing of George Floyd by a police officer in the summer of 2020. But it’s to your point: I live in a blue state run by Democrats. I live just a 20min drive from a poor, 50% black major city [Newark NJ]—the largest in our state, which is the most densely-populated in the country. My sons live in on the border of that urb in an adjoining, densely-populated city (Jersey City, 23% black). They walked right over into Newark and participated in a number of BLM protests over a period of days. There was no insurrection; there was no burning, raping or pillaging. There were massive, peaceful protests.
I have heard it is true that in NYC [run by Dems] for the first 2 days there was vandalism and looting on the fringes of massive peaceful protests, but that police got it under control. I have heard of no reports of burning or rapes there. The only other info I have [via MSM] is that there was an extensive & long-lasting series of protests in Portland, OR [a rather large city run by Dems with only 8% blacks], which did indeed include looting and burning, but no reports of rapes.
Perhaps you have other facts to add to mine that might support your statement that “the democrats staged an insurrection for the entire summer of 2020, burning, raping and pillaging with the approval of the democrat establishment.”
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“If only there were a good guy with a cake, . . .”
–Mark Weidman
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Years ago, I heard repeatedly from my conservative acquaintances that Nixon was no more guilty than any other. Then the Teflon presidency of Ronald Reagan proved his electorate did not care how shredded the constitution became as the participants of the Iran-Contra affair sneered at Congress.
Outrage died a long time ago. It was pretty dead by the time King Leopold exploited the people of the Congo, and only the protests of Conrad and Twain raised up. The Trail of Tears outraged David Crockett, but his speech against it beat him in the next election. Outrage evaded the isolationists when Franco brought fascism to Spain, abetted by Hitler and Mussolini. I would say outrage has always been dead enough all right, it has s as Leary’s been pretty dead. Except, of course, if Hillary Clinton uses a personal server or calls out the White Supremacists.
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Yeah, the right manufactures outrage, and the left manufactures apathy. To one side, everything (her emails”) matters. To the other side, nothing does. Including watching the Republican Party undermining the very right to vote. Yawn, say those who complain the Dems just aren’t good enough. There’s no difference (if you don’t count sustaining democracy as a difference).
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Had the best random political conversation with strangers today I’ve had in more than a decade and then read this. Neither the post nor comments get to the heart of the question, although the WaPo story mentioned in the post comes close. No where is the question posed or do the answers come close to answering: Why is there general outrage? Three things.
Language has no political meaning anymore. And that is the key element needed for fascism to thrive. Not only that, but even what we can all clearly see is open to any interpretation so that it can authoritative to someone. The right reflexively adopts any criticism of itself and immediately uses the same language in order to make it meaningless. Lately, anything “the woke left” wants is fascism. That’s easy to do if the definition can fit whatever circumstance one wants. It makes the opponents’ use of it redundant. And the so-called left adopts the language of the right to lose the argument or be put on the defensive before the argument begins, i.e., culture wars, government education, and so on.
Narcissism as a political movement. One’s political outlook is governed only by what one personally experiences. It is self-interest gone amuck. Therefore issues like climate change, the immediacy of crime, misconceptions about race, gender, whatever, and “the government” become legitimate talking points around which anti-democratic ideas have already won the argument before it begins. The other side is always on the defensive. We really see this narcissism coalesced as the Idiot’s cult. But there is another group, those we casually name and self-identify as “centrists.” As I have argued, the center, close to a majority of the nation is actually described popularly as “center-left.” Therefore issues that have 55-90% of public support tend to be “left” even though these position are clearly in the center. Those who self-identify as centrists are, at best, center-right. They are representative of the Duke Effect, people who proclaim liberal ideas or question those of the right and then vote right behind the curtain. They are not able to be polled because they will lie. In the past we had violent white backlash, today it is more refined, in a manipulated system of governing.
Civility is overrated. And it’s a matter of degree. Often the most venal, horrific things are cloaked in benign language. Rather than respond or explain, it’s easier to claim they’re offended. That way they can ignore debate and fall back on a narcissistic view of life (see above). Like the lyric of a song I heard earlier this year that sums it up: We’re fallin’ apart, but insisting that everything’s fine, sharing courtesy greetings, confirming we’re nice but not kind.
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GregB,
This is so, so true. And so, so depressing.
Thank you, anyway.
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All this is extremely well said and thought out, Greg.
Civility is overrated.
Social sanction, positive and negative, is an essential component of change. I recently taught high school in southern Florida. I was pleasantly surprised to find that most of my students, ordinary, midddle-class kids, were vehemently anti-racist and easily made friends and dated across racial lines. And here’s why, I think. These kids grew up online. The moment someone said something egregiously racist, other kids piled on. And they learned better. And they learned from movies and television shows and popular music. They have very different ideas than their parents do, and so they are my hope for a better future after the coming storm.
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Bob I beg to differ on the civility thing (unless you were kidding).
I had a professor once who talked about the Ideal of Reason that underpins the west, and that is the life’s blood of a culture of people who take a written Constitution as its guide instead of a king or dictator. I couldn’t figure out why anyone would even question reason, however.
Since George Orwell, and now Putin, I know why he thought it so important. CBK
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I think it is all in how you define civility. Being female, I was not originally cognizant of the trash talk that permeated male dominated sports. When I found out that Michael Jordan was a master at it, my admiration took a hit. I don’t think he had to belittle or psych out his opponents to beat them. It struck me as cheap. When my sons played football in high school, they were introduced for the first time to foul-mouthed coaches who routinely belittled them. One of my sons later had a coach as an English teacher who turned out to be inspirational in the classroom. On the practice field, he was a b*****d. Now we are subjected to supposedly upstanding citizens shrieking in public venues trying to drown out any other opinions and bully people into submission. I’m tired of the standard of success being determined by whoever can talk the fastest and loudest with the least amount of “ciivility.”
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I am not calling for Democratic politicians to shriek and scream. But when a presidential candidate has been laundering money for Russian mobsters for decades and everyone knows this, I think that his opponent should say so. When that same politician screamed at his staff for not shooting innocent asylum seekers, I think that his opponent should call him out on it. When Trump is running for office and is asked about the nuclear triad and doesn’t know what it is, or when he says that he gets his military knowledge by watching the shows on TV, Democratic politicians need to say clear, frankly, this is the man who is running for office. He is just too ignorant for this job. He would have no clue. He would be totally in over his head. Just once, just once, when someone like Trump is talking about “the Socialists,” I would like to see the Democrat on the stage say, “Do you have any idea what a Socialist is? Can you define Socialism? Do that. Please. Right now. Tell us what the word Socialism means. You use it all the time. I think that you don’t have a clue what the word refers to.”
I’m getting tired of Democratic politicians being so nice-nice about this stuff.
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I think your definitions of civility and mine are different. I do not find it at all “civil” to ignore corruption and injustice. Responding honestly to them does not at all strike me as having anything to do with lacking civility.
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The same, CBK, with all cults. They begin with a beautiful promise. They are going to give you what you don’t have, belonging, community, value, purpose. Years ago, I was living with a bunch of other college kids in a rented house. The Moonies bought a house across the street from us, and a bunch of them moved in, and they invited us all for a spaghetti dinner and gave a little talk about the importance of family and how they were a family. A girlfriend of mine got wrapped up in Scientology. She dragged me to a meeting. It was all about how people aren’t able to live up to their potential because they are blocked by engrams and how Scientology had a scientific process, auditing, by which those barriers that stand in people’s way could be removed. Did they tell the recruits any of the weird stuff? No, cults always hold that off until people are hooked. So, you will pay for 30 levels of Scientology “training” before you start hearing about how once upon a time, the Galaxy was overpopulated, so the Galactic emperor, Xenu, encircled the Earth with a golden girdle that put everyone to sleep. Then he piled their sleeping bodies around the bases of volcanos and had World War I style airplanes drop hydrogen bombs into these, which killed most but not all of the people. They won’t tell you how the souls, or Thetans, of those people who died all rushed into the people who survived, so that people ended up having all these competing Thetans in them that had to be controlled or removed by auditing, or how Xenu then took the survivors to movie theatres he had set up in the Azores where they donned 3D glasses and watched films that hypnotized them and made them forget about all the nasty H-bomb stuff and programmed them to be semizombies. Nope. In the beginning, it’s all pop psychology and self improvement. Oh so reasonable.
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Bob So you think giving partial truths and hiding the warts on purpose is an example of reasonable discourse? Again, yes, it’s logical, but that’s exactly where reasonableness departs from mere logic.
But we are talking here in ordinary language or common-speak, which is notoriously ill-formed and conceptualist, even when relatively normative; and worse now that, for so many, truth has taken a vacation from it. I know what you mean (wink wink, nod nod). CBK
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Again, it’s an example of APPEARING to be reasonable.
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Bob Again, so the discernment that would identify the difference between sounding reasonable and BEING reasonable is gone. It’s not an abstraction. That’s what I meant by “concrete.” CBK
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The point is that those who argue that we must be moderate and back moderate candidates in the name of “reasonableness” and “civility” simply enable the opposition, which is capable of galvanizing its electorate, its base. And such people simply don’t know the political science that makes clear that the moderate middle in America is a myth.
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Bob When did we change from reasonableness to backing moderate candidates? I think also we are skirting the issue of the difference between propaganda and truth-telling. But when we take on fascist methods (duplicity or acting reasonable), then fascism has won. And if we can understand that someone can ACT reasonable or USE reasonableness nefariously, but not BE reasonable, then we have recognized the difference between mere reasonableness and not. CBK
Frankly, I detest Manchin; and I’d like to see someone with a “d” after their name channel Lyndon Johnson. CBK
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CBK, people always make the argument that we must choose the moderate candidate because he or she is less extreme, more REASONABLE. That’s clear enough.
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Bob You might as well put your finger in the wind as define your use of language by common discourse today. CBK
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Bob Gone to moderation. Good thing. I won’t be back for a few days anyway. CBK
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Bob, I have always objected to the media labeling Manchin and Sinema as moderate. Manchin is owned by the fossil fuel industry and Sinema, I believe, has been bought by the big pharma. The only thing that makes them “moderate” is that since they are not owned by Trump fanatics they sometimes vote with the rest of the Democrats. Citizens United has corrupted the political process far beyond what it has ever been.
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Yes. Citizens United and democracy are not compatible. Expect to see a lot more of decisions like that soon.
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George Santayana, in Reason in Religion, makes the argument that religion serves the same sort of purposes that poetry does and that, while not literally true, is nonetheless elevating. William James, in Varieties of Religious Experience, makes a pragmatic argument for religion, saying that what matters is not it’s literal truth (on that he agrees with Santayana) but, rather, the consequences of belief, which he considers to be mostly positive. Kurt Vonnegut had a soft spot for religion and made the claim that when Marx called religion “the opiate of the people,” he didn’t mean that that was a bad thing. Life is hard, Vonnegut said, and people need pain relievers. My own inclination is to say, look, religions make empirical claims about the world, the universe, ultimate matters, for which there is not a scintilla, a jot, of evidence, and it simply doesn’t make any sense–it isn’t reasonable–to believe things for which there is no evidence. Consider the statement: There is an intelligence species in the Proxima Centauri star system that communicates with hyphae and reproduces via spores, like mushrooms on Earth, what would be the truth value of that proposition? Well, clearly, there is no reason whatsoever to think it true. In general, I have been inclined, like Vonnegut, throughout my life, to a live and let live attitude about people’s religious beliefs, but as I witness the quotidian reality that right-wing extremists like Ted Cruz and Tucker Carlson can barely open their mouths without claiming that God is on their side, I am becoming more and more inclined to say, look, grow up. Throw off the superstition. You don’t have ANY actual KNOWLEDGE about God, and you certainly don’t know that He (or whatever) wants people to vote for Donald Trump and ship asylum seekers back to Mexico and keep women from controlling their own bodies. Increasingly, our politics seems to me to be driven by ignorance and superstition, and so, increasingly, I’ve become allergic to both. That said, there is much, much that we do not understand about ultimate realities. We are MOSTLY ignorant, and that’s built into our perceptual and cognitive makeup, into the limitations that our apparatus impose on what we have access to and what we can understand. So, I’m also equally impatient with dogmatic materialist determinists, and my blood boils when people like Dawkins or Dennett refer to themselves as “the brights.” No, they are practitioners of the religion of Scientism.
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In other words, in this time of “alternative facts” from the right, it’s important, I think, for people not on the right to insist on actual facts and to stand up against worldviews in which empirical propositions for which there is no empirical evidence whatsoever are claimed to be true. Open that door, and anything goes. What’s true becomes a matter of who has the power to enforce it. In that direction lies the fascism that I think we are precipitously sliding into.
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Look what happened with Trumpism. Almost all those so-called moderates on the right–the ones whom people used to refer to as the “silent majority” were given permission by Trump to show their true colors–fundamentalist fanatics, nationalist, sexist, homophobic, gun-obsessed, violent, crazed.
You don’t fight incipient fascism with being civil. This is a war of ideas, and we damned well better start getting hip to that, or we lose.
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CBK and speduktr: How’s that centrism of Susan Collins and Joe Manchin feeling these days. Two great example of venal ideas cloaked in “reasonable” language.
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Exactly, Greg.
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I’m not sure what that has to do with anything. I don’t find their positions particularly “centrist” either. I find Bernie Sanders very civil. He is definitely not a centrist although I believe he has always worked for incremental change through compromise. Should we demonize him for not “letting it all hang out?”
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GregB Reasonable discourse as “cloaking” is a contradiction in terms.
If we don’t understand the demands of authenticity embedded in the our understanding of reasonableness, it’s already gone anyway. CBK
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In other words, the Nazis sold people on fixing the economy, putting them back to work, making Germany great again, and a glorious Volksstaat to come.
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CBK, I don’t think you are understanding Greg’s argument. Greg is a scholar of fascism. He is fluent in German and has read widely about how this country descended into madness. He groks as well as anyone I know how fascism works. Hitler didn’t go to the German people and say, I want to turn you into murderous thugs. We are the party of gassing babies. Sounds great, doesn’t it? No, he went to them and said, you are a great and glorious people. Your greatness and destiny have been undermined, stolen from you. We stand for the Aryan family, for creating living space for the German people. We want healthy young people in programs teaching them to love their country and take care of their bodies and minds through pure thoughts and vigorous exercise. We want to bring back jobs and prosperity that has been stolen from you by nefarious elements in our society. He presented to them a beautiful dream in glorious language. The return to a Golden Age, the fulfillment of a destiny.
Fascism will come to America, quite soon, cloaked in the language of God and country and family values. In the language of protecting children and building strong families and restoring lost greatness. That’s how it works.
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Bob I get it. I think you might be mistaking reasonable for logical, however? But we were merely speaking of definitions. It’s a matter of definition and the concrete use of “reasonable.”
That is, double-speak, or fascists using the sound of reasonableness to hide their horror, lies, and duplicitous, might be logical, but it does not make for “reasonableness,” which speaks to reason as such, not merely logic. The motivations of a fascist are hidden precisely because they are corrupt, and unreasonable to those they are trying to dupe.
Doesn’t matter though? We all three understand fascism and its dangers. CBK
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Catherine, it makes for SOUNDING reasonable. That’s the point.
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Bob We are back to what I said to Greg in the first place. When most involved in common discourse have lost that distinction, reasonableness as such is already gone.
CBK
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The civility comment was sort of an afterthought that came to me as I was writing the first two points, which I consider to much more important to the argument I attempted to make. I am by no means a scholar, but I will admit to being an obsessed amateur on this topic.
CBK, I think you misunderstood my comment. Note that I wrote “reasonable” in quotes. It means that language that sounds reasonable when taken in isolation is not at all when put into context. I agree with speduktr that honest responses are not uncivil. For example, starting with the media, we use terms like misinformation, distortion, or disingenuous when we should just call it a lie. Every single time. And having grown up in the South, I’ve been around enough people who are nice and civil to other people–often white small business owners to Black customers–only to see them erupt in racial epithets when Blacks were not within earshot. That’s what I mean. I can’t be civil to people like that. The best I can do is to have nothing to do with them.
But I am far more concerned about the corruption of language and the organized politicization of narcissism that finds it expression in the tolerance of oppression of others.
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GregB Yes, I missed the quote marks around “reasonable.” Makes all the difference. CBK
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” And having grown up in the South, I’ve been around enough people who are nice and civil to other people–often white small business owners to Black customers–only to see them erupt in racial epithets when Blacks were not within earshot.”
As a born and bred Northerner, I could not say what you just said (without sounding very biased) even though the stereotype is stuck in my head of a southern matron who has made an art out of sounding polite when that is far from what is intended. With eyes flashing and nostrils flaring, I would flunk a course in “polite society.”
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Language has no political meaning anymore. And that is the key element needed for fascism to thrive.
Here, the truth of this played out on the national and world stages in the U.S., Russia, and Ukraine:
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Under the false flag of religious liberty, the Federalist Society robs Americans of their rights and gives their tax dollars to conservative Christians.
More’s the pity
The left gives cover to the opposition’s combatants who belong to an organization that overtly discriminates against women, that works to take away the rights of women and, that takes tax dollars from public schools. The left fears tribalists and seems unable to craft a message to distinguish the GOP activists and voters in that sect from the minority, politically ineffective, and financially poor Democratic segment of the sect.
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Linda Like all churches and organizations, it’s the people who make change from within. If Nancy Pelosi left the Church, or all Catholics who disagree with the overplay of right-wing forces in the Church left, besides being a massive number, those right-wing forces would consolidate even more than they are now.
Be careful what you wish for, and know that whatever else you know, you don’t know the Catholic Church or what’s going on with Nancy Pelosi or others in terms of it. You reveal your ignorance of it every time you write. And everyone here probably knows, your hair is still on fire about Catholics; and you have done the same/same as before in your notes. . . everything but written the term “Catholic.” CBK
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To blog readers, no person in particular-
I am willing to state what the press and mainstream influencers won’t write and what broadcast media won’t say. There have been no entities more important in the loss of women’s reproductive rights than the politicized American Catholic Church hierarchy and powerful, political, right wing Catholics. (And, I think the same case may be able to be made in terms of threats to gay rights.)
The religious right’s support within the U.S. for Hungary’s Orban, should be named by sect. The campaign is a threat to liberal values.
Fighting for American rights has a better chance of success when there is no fear to name the enemy.
Disagreement about the left’s political strategy of silence about religious sects’ influence can exist. The rationales for the silence strategy merit evaluation.
Personal insults are effective in smearing reputations and undermining arguments. Never the less, I personally attempt to refrain from them and I have a pattern of not defending against them because they are meritless. The truth is in the points made. Personal insults won’t stop me from the cause- speaking the truth about state Catholic Conferences and school choice politicking and about the SCOTUS majority who have already decided to exclude religious schools from civil rights employment law and to support tax funding for religious schools. With more cases on the horizon, the left has much to fear from jurists who lie in confirmation hearings and who use their interpretation of God’s law to make decisions while pretending otherwise.
This blog’s host can conclude that media ignore evangelical politicking and target Catholic politicking, for example, identifying with equal zeal, the religions of Jerry Falwell and Leonard Leo and Pat Buchanan. She can conclude that religions representing 2-3% of the population are major threats and should be given equal scrutiny to the ones that signed the Manhattan Declaration. We can disagree about those conclusions.
Whether I think right wing Catholic entities will continue to have wins against the rights of individuals and families (fluidly defined) is based on what I read in religious, international and, mainstream U.S. publications, etc., on documented trends like Fox viewership, on political projections in media, the platforms that are electing GOP politicians and Pew voting statistics by religion.
I make no apologies for stating clearly what Jefferson warned- in every age, in every country, the priest aligns with the despot -and supporting it with evidence.
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Linda Misses the point entirely . . . again. CBK
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The New Republic, 3-9-2021, in an article written by the author of Power Worshippers, “The religious left is underfunded (extreme financial imbalance) and comparatively under-centralized and has a tendency toward volunteerism, declarations and marches. The religious right in contrast (dominates) the nerve centers of influence and owes its current strength to decades of investment in a sophisticated suite of tools including data, media and messaging that drive voter mobilization.”
In 1986 before the final draft of a bishops’ letter about economic justice made it into print, conservative theologian, Michael Novak at AEI, posted a lengthy critique.
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We have become two Americas. One side doesn’t understand how the other side thinks, or if they do know, they are simply appalled. The gap between the two Americas seems unbridgeable. So, how does the other side think? here:
So, Darlene says to me, “Rickie Lee,” (she always says my name like that when she’s laying down the law—you know how women is sometimes when they’s talking to children), “Real talk: Lord knows, you have your faults. But they’s reasons why I married you in the first place. Even at sixteen, I could see you got a head on your shoulders and thinks things through. Now, normal, you ain’t exactly a talker,” (you know women and how they likes to talk), “but when you do, you ain’t like ever Harry Dick and John Thomas.” (twenty-five years with that woman and I ain’t been able to break her of that mouth she got from her Pappy) “You can splain things cause you’ve thought about ‘em up one side and down the other, forwards and backwards. Ever which way. I remember when your Paw was first talking about giving us this land to build on and you said, ‘Well, we’ll have to get a backhoe in here,’ and he said, ‘whatever for? I mean, you don’t have to put in a cellar first thing,’ and you said—you wasn’t more that fifteen yourself—‘Well, sir’ (that’s another thing I liked—you was always respectful—you said, ‘Well sir, this here land sits kindly low, and come Spring ever year, we’ll be wading two foot deep just to get to the front door.’ And course you was right. So, anyways, long story short, you ain’t much of a talker, but when you does talk about the way things is, you make a lot a sense, and I’ve been thinking you should write that down all in one place so other people can read it and get some sense into them, too.”
Well, I was dumbstruck. It was the nicest thing anyone’s ever said to me, but I ain’t no writer. So, things went on, and you know me, I always have practical things to worry about what with the hogs and the tobacco, but you know how women is when they gets a notion. She wouldn’t let it go. Kept nagging at me and even sharpened a bunch of pencils and put a big stack of paper at the kitchen table that sat there for months. So, finally, she got another idea in her head (women and their ideas), and she goes out to the Walmart–the Dry Goods is long gone–and comes home with a tape recorder and says, “OK. If you ain’t gonna write it, then maybe you’ll just say it into this recorder, and then somebody else can write it all out nice like.”
“Darlene, Darlin,” I said, “what on Earth you want me to go blabbing about,” and she says, “You know right well, Rickie Lee: The way things is.” And of course, I knew exactly what she was talking about. So, after supper, I took that recorder in my lap, but I could say much of anything with her looking at me all proud of herself the way she gets when she’s got me onto something, so I took it out to my workshop, and if you’re reading this, well, it’s cause she got her way after all. Usually does, that woman.
The question is, where does a body even begin? Well, I had this teacher oncet, you probably know Mrs. Purcell. She passed a few years back. She said, “If you don’t know where to start, just jump in anywhere, and let it come to you like water out of a spring.” That was some pretty good advice.
So, I remember when I took Peggy Sue’s daughter up to that college in Lexington. You wouldn’t believe what all. I almost put her things back in the truck and headed right back here to Russell Springs. I wouldn’t want a daughter a mine mixed up in all that. But she insisted, and finally I let it go. But I tell you. They was kids—young girls, mind you—running around up there with purple hair. And they was two boys walking across that campus holding hands like they was the bride and groom at a wedding, and one of them was a Negro.
Now, you know me. I ain’t no racist. I hates racism. Hates it. When we had that flood back in ’89 and most of Negrotown was washed out, who was the first over there helping them rebuild and carrying food and what not? Me and Darlene. I always liked them people, and they always liked me. But come down to it, it’s a matter of what’s natural.
You see, they’s a natural order of things. It’s the way the Lord made it, set it up, right from the very beginning. You ever see a chicken running around with purple hair? You ever see a goose and a polecat making up a nest together and saying they was married? Not that your animals can talk, but you know what I mean. They’s natural and they’s perversion. And that’s what we got now. Things is all upside down and jumbled up worse than a bucket you throws spare nuts and bolts and screws and nails in to sort through one of these days.
So, I suppose, if this is the beginning, that’s where you start, at the beginning. The Lord set things up in the beginning one way, and now people wants to have it . . . however, any which way, like they knows better than him. Purple hair and rings in their noses and boys getting with boys.
And once you start going against the Lord, you kin end up anywheres. Thinking it’s alright to kill babies that ain’t even born yet. Politicians robbing people blind with taxes so half the farms around here people have just give up.
But I’m going on. Getting ahead of myself. The thing is, at the beginning, the Lord set things up one way because He had sense people just don’t have. At the top was the Lord and his angels, and below them, His chosen people, and below them other people, and below them animals. Course, His original chosen people strayed, chasing after false gods—the Bible is full of stuff like that—so He had to go over to the Gentiles–that’s us– and put them in charge. Sometimes, I’ll be walking a row I just plowed, putting down seed, and I’ll come across one of them old Indian arrowheads. I got a bunch of them in the garage there. So, the Lord, in the beginning, he put white people in Europe and Indians in America and black people in Africa, and that’s how he meant things to be. Now you take your Indians. They was smart. I mean that. They knew all the plants that was good for eating and healing. You could scrape off this bark if somebody had a fever. You could burn some wood ash and trickle water through it and make lye and use that lye to turn corn into hominy or goose fat into soap. They had ways to live off what the Lord provided, most of which is lost now. But for whatever reason, the Indians strayed from His ways—that’s lost, too, and they was doing human sacrifices and Lord knows what all, and the Lord decided to give a revelation to his new chosen people, the Gentiles, to come and take their land. That’s hard, I know. But the Lord, He’s a righteous Lord, and you start straying, there will be hell to pay. It’s like this. OK. The Lord put my Daddy ahead of me. And if I talked to him, I said, “Yes, Sir” and “No, Sir,” and if I’d ever talked back to him, well, he woulda hit me up side the head with a two by four. And that’s where it all started, the mess we’re in now, with kids not learning, when they was little, to say, “Yes, Sir” and “No, ma’am,” respectful like. You stop respecting the natural order of things, then there will be hell to pay. Yes there will.
Take Earl Grider’s boy, Carl. Went off to college there in Lexington, and he come back saying, how do you know about the Lord revealing their destiny to white people? Maybe that’s all a bunch of superstition. How do you know that there ain’t some other god that is the real god or that god ain’t a woman? I don’t believe in swearing oaths, but on my word, them was his exact words. And that’s what happens. They go off to these colleges and a bunch of Socialist professors puts all kinds of ideas in their heads, and they come back and they don’t know nothing anymore. So, I asked him, “Carl, have you been saved?” And he just started blubbering. And I said, “Carl, if you’ve been saved, you just know. And there’s a reason for that. Like there’s a reason for everything else. It all fits together. The Lord had it all worked out from the beginning. When you are saved, He sends the Holy Spirit, and it enters into you, and after that, you just know. What’s right. What’s wrong. What the truth is. Who He has chosen to lead our country, even if he’s an imperfect vessel. You just know. Take race mixing. The Lord set it up how it worked at the very beginning, and he put the Indians in America and the white people in Europe and the black people in Africa. Now, why do you think He done that? And when His original chosen people strayed, He said, “My spirit no longer bides with you” and went over to the white people and revealed Himself to them and put them in charge, and then He gave this country to His new chosen people. You want to talk about race mixing? How did that work out for the Indians? They probably thought, well, we can all just get along, like at the first Thanksgiving. But you see, that’s a violation of the natural order. You want proof of that? Well, just try putting a cat and a rat together in burlap bag and see how that’s gonna work for you. And now we got all this BLM and people burning down stores and people’s homes and you ain’t even spozed to have a gun to protect yourself.
So now things is all jumbled up. Politicians wants to put women over men. They wants men to decide, hey, I think I’m going to be a woman now. They wants to put black people in charge over white people. They want to take away a man’s guns so he can’t even go hunting no more, like the Lord didn’t give men dominion over the animals. And that’s another thing. Grider’s boy says he don’t eat meat no more. He’s a Veegan. There it is. Violation of the natural order. What’s he going to eat? Grass, like he’s a cow? Bark, like he’s a deer in wintertime?
It’s all messed up. Like a bucket of odds and ends. Jumbled. And that’s how you know, these is the End Times. Meantime, if you ain’t locked and loaded, you got sawdust for brains.
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So, the other side has certainty on its side. Religious certainty and fervor.
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Bob On “religious fervor.” It’s more fervor than it is religious . . . many other in the middle and on the left are also religious. We just haven’t traded our brains in for obtrusiveness, dogmatism, propaganda, and emotional immaturity.
It’s really tiresome to me when all that is “religious” is interpreted so often ONLY in terms of televangelists, right-wing idealogues, and child molesters.
You are one of my favorite writers here. But way too often on this site I hear many complaining about right-wing smearing of democrats when smearing of religion and the church (most notably in Linda’s notes) is a cherished method of operation. CBK
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Understood, CBK. And thanks for your temperate note. I’m writing from worry, Ms. King. I see the grip that the evangelical nationalist right has on one whole political party in the U.S., and my blood runs cold. I do think that when fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross. And I know that that’s crazy, a total perversion of the message of the fellow who taught that ” Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me” Matt. 25:40.
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Bob Yes, I know . . . it’s like so many have just dispensed with what is so central to the New Testament, not to mention specifically the Parables, e.g., of the Good Shepherd. Whatever else Jesus was or wasn’t, he was not a tribal man.
But to connect with other narratives here, do you see the same HUMAN CONDITION that underpins (1) (complaints about) the right being so intensively outraged, and the left not being outraged enough, and (2) the quietude of so many people in religious orders?
As a deeper philosophical issue, human beings ASK the religious question in the sense that we know we will die and desire, at the deepest level of our being, to understand what that means . . . even atheism is an ANSWER to that question, as is every religious institution on every street corner and in every town in the world.
The Church (any church) is not an abstraction. It’s about real people working through their ethical/moral/political AND spiritual/religious QUESTIONS. Ironically, that’s what is so human about all of us, and what holds us together underneath all else.
On that understanding, religious institutions and their related opposites are all involved in several transformative movements as we speak; and so religious “fervor” is also in transformation, but will not go away. I promise you and everyone else here, the alternative, even if it were possible, is not something to hanker after. It’s the ugly real-politic that runs its ugly course, and that realist/novelists write about
And in the short term, the more moderate religious-identified folks among us (might I say “civilized”), just like other moderate secular-civilized in our culture, commonly do not harbor loud, much less, totalitarian fervor. And so we don’t share THAT with the Republican Right. Perhaps they’ll show up at the voting booth.
BTW, I thought your most recent notes were absolutely on-target. CBK
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I wonder how many commenters here have ever been to a Sunday morning service at a fundamentalist megachurch–you know, the ones with three stages and rock concert-style screens. The fellowship and intensity at these is nothing less than breathtaking. And these meetings are at least a weekly occurrence for those who attend them. Constant reinforcement. So, you have that current in the country, and you have billionaire oligarchs pouring vast amounts of money into think tanks and propaganda campaigns. Nothing comparable on the left. That’s why, despite the fact that the tides are against the right-wingers, we are going to have a period of fascist control. Half the citizenry is totally brainwashed.
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I personally know two families who moved from a church they liked because their political views were attacked from the pulpit. One of these went back to its roots church, the other has not been to church in two years.
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I’ve always wanted to check out one of those.
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I went to two different ones a few years back, one in North Carolina and another in Florida. Astonishing experiences, both. Well worth doing. Eye-opening. Both were in complexes this size of small European nation states, lol. Both had multiple stages, bands playing, enormous screens, dramatic sermons. And both had attached schools and gymnasiums and lots of police directing enormous amounts of traffic. I was astonished by the size of the crowds. In both, they were comparable to large, outdoor rock festivals. But the most fascinating thing was to watch the people, how joyful they were, how dressed up, how engaged and friendly they were, how attentive and vociferous. Before and after the sermon, there was an enormous amount of people hugging one another. In both, there was a strong political and apocalyptic undercurrent to the messages, but also, as I said, a lot of joy. These were very affirming events for the participants. I could easily see why they are addictive to many people. I couldn’t help but think of the rallies filmed by Leni Reifinstahl.
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cx: Riefenstahl
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You just wrote a story about most of my neighbors. Most of them anyway.
How much they have forgotten. They do not remember David. He was the kind and sensitive boy who walked around the playground holding hands with a pretty little sixth grader. He asked his Sunday school teacher a lot of questions he could never answer. The family shotgun became his ticket out of this life. In ten years the pretty sixth grader would find life unbearable as well. Another boy I know took the shotgun way out too. Over a girl, they all said. His granddaddy built a little shrine up around his grave and would go up there and sit until he died of cancer.
Problem is, Our Town is full of heartbreak because we know each other. But when someone says life is not perfect, that there is a better way, we feel threatened. Then some powerful person who understands that can use it to get themselves power.
And representative government can wither in the face of personality.
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Then some powerful person who understands that can use it to get themselves power.
And representative government can wither in the face of personality.
Wow, Roy. Nailed it. And that’s where we are. The politics of the cult of personality. And it happens to be the malignant pathologically narcissistic personality of a grifter and mobster.
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Well said, Roy.
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Have you, by any chance, Roy, read the story by Philip Roth called “The Conversation of the Jews”? A masterpiece. You will see on reading it, if you haven’t yet, how it relates to the moving, tragic stories you shared.
Click to access RothConversionoftheJews.pdf
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The outrage of the Trump Republican Party as viewed by GOP state committee member, Jaclyn Corriveau, upon leaving a meeting where misogyny and xenophobia were on display, “Read the room. It’s Massachusetts, not Alabama.”
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Coming in late. My goodness what a conversation. I will ponder it and maybe offer a couple of thoughts later if anyone’s still reading here. Meanwhile, posting here a few reactions to the Hubbell article.
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My contributions for Hubbell’s headline suggestions on the WaPo article: “WaPo is NOT ‘liberal MSM media: check this out, conservatives!” and “Doom lies straight ahead– News at 11.”
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OMG, I ROFL’d when I read Cassidy’s “if you correct our population for race…” I couldn’t muster outrage. What an clueless idiot.
Maybe he’s been scanning reports that compare this or that “[corrected for SES],” and just didn’t get it. Hubbell lets him off way too easily, suggesting it’s a Freudian slip. OK—Freudian, if Cassidy is so stupid as to assume black women have some genetic pre-disposition to maternal mortality (?!) But what this really says to me is, Cassidy shrugs off any state responsibility for seeing to it that all LA women get competent obstetrical care.
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Cassidy, who is from Louisiana, is a medical doctor and he received an “A” rating from the National Right to Life Committee. His site boasts about the nation’s reliance on religion. His own religious sect is the same as the SCOTUS conservative judges’.
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Linda Pelosi and Biden, just as a tip of the iceberg, are also long-term Catholics presumably with Catholic educations. But please do explain what your point is in referring to Catholic backgrounds in pretty much anything you write, over and over again? CBK
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Diane, re: your para “Hubbell wrote this before the Uvalde school massacre…” Yet what I see since is that the public’s attention has not shifted, they are still (like me) all wound up in trying to digest and figure out what political action they might take that might work, going forward. I’m getting this just from the last few days of WaPo ed et al articles on other topics, where commenters keep bringing the conversation back to gun control. Do editors pay attention to comment threads? They shift attention away before the public is even ready: their interest is clearly to get the jump on another ‘big thing,’ as though signaling readers that it’s time to move on and get excited about something else. Thus cutting off constructive ideas.
This is a big part of the “great resignation” Hubbell describes here, and perhaps why he focuses mainly on media. We can no longer count on MSM to provide moral perspectives on politics, much less fodder for political activism: it rarely employs investigative reporting, it’s just about clickbait/ ad consumption.
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I’m reading and paying attention. I will not drop the subject.
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You should not have to. It has merit.
Too often, politics in this country is mired in style, aspiration, possibilities, avoidances, and euphemism. We need structural change. The public is so addicted to ignorance and isolation that they are numbed to how other modern democracies fare much better than us in just about all directions and quality of life.
I’m a fan of outrage, if it’s judiciously used.
I’m outraged! And proud of it.
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bethree5,
Just wanted to say I am reading all your late comments and I really appreciate your insights! Thank you!
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Thanks, nycpsp. Just adding this for the record. I think I am most drawn to CBK’s thoughts in the exchange above [the huge middle ground of public, & why it’s not strident]. Linda’s cite fits right in: “Read the room. It’s Massachusetts, not Alabama.”
Of course we only guess from polls on controversial issues, but I would agree there’s a rather large majority of opinion in the middle ground, considerably to the left of the loud-mouthed “conservatives” running things in Senate as well as many statehouses. Clearly the populace’s tank of outrage is at a very low level. It took live video of a policeman slowly and smugly murdering a suspect of a petty crime to spur the sort of national protests we used to see in the ‘60s. [OTOH, the biggest and most widespread of those protests were spurred by a decade of drafting young men into a wrong-headed and hopeless war.] The outrage is low because of decades of seeing legislation passed against the common interest and the perception by even the slowest-witted of commoners that the game is rigged.
I like tenor of Bob’s 5/31 12:42pm comment, where he suggests what liberal/ Dem party leaders should be saying in public. Stridency is not required and is counterproductive. What’s needed is regularly and promptly calling out the other guy. Media will cover it– even amplify it, as it is disagreement, which sells copy. Be the voice of reason, every day. No wonky explanations, ever. Be the voice of that vast middle ground of the public, which has been silenced by hopelessness and distrust.
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