At the Network for Public Education conference in Philadelphia on May 1, I moderated a panel to discuss attacks on public schools and the groups behind those attacks. Peter Greene identified a long list of groups that claim to be protecting “parents rights.” Peter described groups such as “Moms for America,” “Moms for Liberty,” “For Kids and Country,” “Parents Defending Education,” and the “National Parents Union,” which seem to be led by women with close ties to Trumpism and funded by the usual rightwing crowd. They asserted ”parent rights” to oppose teaching about race and sex. They insisted that parents have the right to control their children.
They say they are fighting for parental rights, yet they have said nothing about the legislation in several states that sever the rights of the parents of transgender youth.
Arkansas Governor Asa Hutchinson, a conservative Republican, vetoed a bill in his state that eliminates parental rights to seek medical care for their transgender children. The legislature overrode his veto.
“The Republican Party that I grew up with believed in a restrained government that did not jump in the middle of every issue.”
He said transgender health care of young people should be limited to the patient, parents and physicians. “And we ought to yield to that decision making unless there’s a compelling state reason.”
In an attempt to provide context for the trend by Republicans in passing anti-transgender legislation across the country, Hutchinson said there is an overwhelming sense among party members that “there’s undue influence” on young people to reconsider their gender.
But he said, “This was one step way too far and I couldn’t abide by it.”
The “parent rights” groups are silent. They have nothing to say to states that take away the rights of parents of transgender children.
Medical decisions involving children should be made by parents and doctors, not politicians.
Medical decisions affecting adult women should be made by them and their doctors, not by politicians.
Medical decisions affecting adult men should be made by them and their doctors, not politicians.
Diane Ravitch's blog 
If the transgender cause were merely about being compassionate towards genuinely transgender people, then fair-minded people would take no exception. The problem here is allowing immature, impressionable minor children to make irrevocable decisions that can mutilate their bodies and result in future medical outcomes that are still very uncertain after using various hormonal treatments. That’s why Sweden – a European social democracy – no longer allows such treatment for children under age 18. Moreover, various studies have found that over 90% of minors who claim to be transgender eventually identify with their chromosome-assigned gender when they reach early adulthood, with most of them being gay; fortunately for most of them, they haven’t been surgically changed or used questionable hormonal therapies.
Come on, folks – these are kids whose brains are far from fully developed. It may be trendy, but it’s an abdication of adult responsibility to permit them to make life-altering decisions far too prematurely.
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Um, citations needed.
The reality is that it takes a very long time for trans people, including trans youth, to get to the point of irrevocable surgical decisions. My son is trans (we live in a very blue state) and we’ve been on a waiting list for nearly a year just to have the first medical consultation, at which point first steps will be decided. Those first steps will involve fully reversible hormone treatments. The earliest possible surgery he could have after that would be at least six months. These is also a requirement for on-going therapeutic services with sign-off by the therapist that this is not simply a whim or the result of ingrained misogyny. Contrary to the propaganda, this is not some decision made on a whim that a kid pops in to do after school before soccer practice one day.
The far greater concern is the 40% of trans youth who commit suicide, nearly all of them because their gender identity is not recognized and supported and they do not receive gender affirming treatment. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32345113/
And the idea that being transgender is “trendy” when trans youth and adults are routinely assaulted and even killed is risible.
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Thank you! We need to have nuanced discussions about the huge uptick in teens identifying as transgender and the long lasting repercussions of treating them with cross sex hormones and sex reassignment surgeries. Many of these young adults are looking for a sense of belonging and identity, as all adolescents must do, however we must be looking at the causes carefully (social media, body dysmorphia in the age of the internet, disconnection of the mental self from the body, depression, anxiety, autism) and treat the person with love, tools for deep personal connections, and therapy. As Kelly says, Sweden, as well as other European countries, are looking at the transgender social phenomenon in teens and are slowing down the process of medicalization in order to help teens integrate into their bodies as they navigate puberty and their development into adults. It’s facile to look at this through a right and left lens; but it’s imperative that we look deeply at the trends that correspond to our youth mental health crisis. Trans identification is a symptom of a crisis, not the cause. Gender dysphoria often resolves itself in adulthood (data suggests 85-90%), and many children and teens with gender dysphoria become gay adults. However, today, gender non-conforming youth are enticed and encouraged to reject their biological sex and medicalization themselves into a transition. As we celebrate these transitions, we may also be causing irreparable damage and an avalanche of detransitioning adults who question a medical establishment and culture that did not slow them down the path to medicalization. I recommend reading Trans by Helen Joyce on this topic.
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There is no reliable data on “resolving itself in adulthood” and MANY far more reliable studies that show it doesn’t.
There are studies that show that there is a more than 10 times HIGHER incidence of people regretting having knee replacement surgery. Which is irreversible, fyi.
You sound like the folks citing studies that hydroxychloroquine is the miracle cure for COVID. They were just as shoddy.
“But there are studies…. and we don’t care how shoddy they are. Hydroxychloroquine cures COVID! “
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Here is another study:
“This study found that gender-affirming medical interventions were associated with lower odds of depression and suicidality over 12 months. These data add to existing evidence suggesting that gender-affirming care may be associated with improved well-being among TNB youths over a short period, which is important given mental health disparities experienced by this population, particularly the high levels of self-harm and suicide.”
Do high rates of suicide and self-harm matter?
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Kelly and maestra are setting up false narratives. Namely, that hordes of kids are changing genders willy-nilly without any checks or balances. It’s a long and drawn out process not done hastily or overnight. The transition process is not like getting braces, it’s much more complicated, nuanced and monitored.
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I don’t have anyone in my family who is trans. I have friends who do. Being trans is not easy. It involves taking a role in society that is scorned, despised, hated; every year, trans people are murdered. No one would choose to be trans to be “trendy.”
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Predictable
Christopher Rufo, creator of CRT panic, is in the news today at Raw Story for his attacks on businesses that provide support for LGBTQ.
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ARE YOU OUTLAWING KNEE REPLACEMENT SURGERY NOW??? (see end of this comment)
“various studies have found that over 90% of minors who claim to be transgender eventually identify with their chromosome-assigned gender when they reach early adulthood, with most of them being gay”
Please cite these studies. They don’t exist.
Unlike a teenager who wants a permanently altering nose job, or permanently altering growth hormones, teens who believe they are transgender undergo psychological evaluations before they can receive hormones.
And I have never heard of any teen having surgery. That would happen into their 20s.
You also lied by saying Sweden “no longer allows” treatment for under 18s. In fact, it is allowed. It is simply not recommended, except for an acknowledgement that sometimes it IS recommended if a doctor agrees. Get it?
Furthermore, the study used for “not recommended” was so shoddy that it was pulled from where it was published soon after.
From 2/23/2022 article from the UK news site Pinknews:
“Among the evidence that the Socialstyrelsen cites is an American study vastly debunked as “junk science” by activists and healthcare professionals.
The 2018 analysis by Lisa Littman on detransitioners (people who renounce their trans identities and return to the gender they were assigned at birth) sought to prove the existence of “rapid-onset gender dysphoria“.
The debunked term coined by Littman claims a “social contagion” is responsible for young people identifying as trans, rather than, say, growing acceptance of gender diversity.
No major healthcare organisations recognise rapid-onset gender dysphoria. Littman’s research was, within a week, pulled by the journal PLOS One.
However, Lindén came to the conclusion: “It is not possible to determine how common it is for people who undergo gender-confirming treatment to later change their perception of their gender identity, interrupt the treatment or in some aspect regret it.”
A 50-year longitudinal study in Sweden that found of 767 trans people, just two per cent expressed regret following gender-affirming surgery. Studies in Britain and the Netherlands found similar rates of 0.47 per cent and 1.9 per cent respectively.
Conversely, around 20 per cent of people who have undergone knee replacement surgery come to regret it, researchers found.”
Start using real facts, not right wing “alternative facts”.
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It is a blatant lie that Sweden “no longer allows hormonal treatment for under 18s”. They do not recommend it, but they acknowledge that there are cases where it is needed and the decision is STILL left to the doctor.
The fact that people lie about this tells you that they don’t really care about the kids. They care about pushing an agenda.
Kelly Johnson, people who care about kids don’t have to lie. You made the same mistake the pro-charter folks did – you decided that lying would help kids instead of help your own personal agenda
It’s like Trump supporters who believe Trump had to lie to people to get them to attend Trump U for their own good. It’s always for the good for the liar.
So correct your mistake, or don’t and confirm it was an intentional lie.
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Linked below is just one of numerous articles that discuss Swedish policy on this issue. If you have more current, contrary information I’m happy to review it.
This blog so often descends into personal attacks whenever dissenting information or opinions are offered. It’s not a “lie” to have a different viewpoint; it’s not right-wing to be concerned about immature minors making irrevocable medical decisions about procedures that are far from universally accepted by credible experts.
https://genderreport.ca/the-swedish-u-turn-on-gender-transitioning/
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Kelly, if it helps, I have never written a word in support of “immature minors making irrevocable medical decisions.” I don’t know if anyone who comments here has written in support of such an action. I happen to be personally opposed to any medical decisions by minors or to any unnecessary surgical procedures. I refuse to pierce my ears, for example, and abhor the thought of a tattoo. I have no idea where you got the idea that “this blog” supports views that it does not support.
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If you care to know what I think about “transitioning,” I think it’s a decision that should be made by a mature individual and a qualified physician. This is one issue where government should butt out.
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This is why such a personal decision should be made by an individual and/or parents of minors in consultation with a doctor. Some young people face debilitating gender dysphoria with the potential to drive an adolescent to suicide. Government should stay out of the decision.
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Kelly Johnson,
Read bethree5’s comprehensive reply to your misleading post.
The reason I assume you are a right winger is that your method of discussion is similar — to mislead instead of wanting a truthful, honest discussion. That tells me your agenda isn’t kids at all. It is something else that is self-serving.
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NYC-
“It’s something else”
Right wing religion?
Raw Story reported in 2021 about the Michigan Catholic Conference’s expenditure of almost a quarter million dollars to oppose a group advocating for expansion of LGBTQ protections. My recollection was that the article referenced a ballot initiative.
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Sweden didn’t ban/ disallow anything. Their advisory health board issued a guideline in February recommending that puberty blockers should only be used in exceptional cases. Role of the agency: “Clinicians are expected to be familiar with the advice and take it into account when exercising clinical judgement – it does not, however, override individual responsibility for what treatment is best for their patients. This means that while Socialstyrelsen’s judgments play a big part in what healthcare is available to Swedes, individual providers may supply alternatives or tweak the guidelines to suit particular patients.” https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2022/02/23/sweden-trans-healthcare-puberty-blockers/
Compare to the text of laws introduced in 7 states and passed in Ark & Tenn [both laws blocked in federal court after ACLU brought suits]: “A physician or other healthcare professional shall not provide gender transition procedures to any individual under eighteen (18) years of age.” Gender transition procedures “include without limitation medical services that provide puberty-blocking drugs, cross-sex hormones, or other mechanisms to promote the development of feminizing or masculinizing features in the opposite biological sex.”
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yep.
I doubt Kelly Johnson will reply. It is why our democracy is in danger — one side deceives and misrepresents and condones lies.
I have always thought that anyone whose agenda is really about kids would never lie. They would want to have an honest discussion based on TRUTHS on how to best address their needs. But Kelly, like the pro-charter folks, wants to deceive.
I always assume that pro-charter folks and people like Kelly don’t want to be honest because they don’t believe being honest will convince people of their argument.
It demonstrates that they actually don’t have the courage of their convictions at all.
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Arkansas and Tenn.- in top 5 states for religiosity
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That is a fascinating link from World Population Report, Linda. I was able to find it just by googling on your last few words. Their measurement factors seem fair. Much is unsurprising. Unexpected for me: NJ is 16% more religious than NYS.. FL is no more religious than MD, DE, NJ.. ME, NH, VT & MA at 33%/34% are the lowest in country.
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be three-
Of the top 11 states for religiosity (Pew), 6 are in the top 10 of “most 2nd amendment friendly.”
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The failure in data collection and reporting is its omission to enlighten about a significant difference between conservative and liberal religious. Conservative religious politick for the GOP. Liberal religious tend to avoid politics.
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Further various studies have found that you picked that 90% had reservations figure from your rectum. At least the following study acknowledges that on going study is necessary. As that the numbers of teens identifying as trans has increased However it is the largest study conducted .
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Joel,
This discussion here is a mirror of all discussions with right wing folks.
They do not care about honesty. They will say and do anything — cite any study — to justify their own self-serving desires.
This is similar to trying to have a discussion with pro-charter folks or anti-vaccine folks or anti-masking folks or “keep crowded, poorly ventilated falling apart urban schools open in a pandemic” folks.
They don’t trust people to help them get what they want if they just tell them the truth. Like Trump, they mislead them, but justify it as being for other people’s own good, when it always their own self-interest.
In my econ classes we learned that capitalism needed “lemon laws” for used car sales, because otherwise the bad drives the good out of business.
In our democracy, our so-called liberal media has abandoned lemon laws, and now presents liars and truth tellers as the same. Which just drives truth tellers out of democracy.
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Even the headline is biased. It is not a choice. But as reputable studies point out over and over again, if there is a bias, it is genetic, not social, behavioral, environmental or legal. Nor do people “change their minds” about something so fundamental to self-identity.
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Greg,
Yep, and people are more likely to change their minds about irreversible nose jobs or knee surgery. Just ask Jennifer Grey. If only the anti-rhinoplasty movement was supported by far right billionaires and Jennifer Grey could be constantly cited as “proof” that it is evil to allow anyone to have plastic surgery without a lot of therapy to address their mental illness evidenced by wanting plastic surgery.
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Kelly,
Have you written at this blog before showing concern for children abused in homeschooling situations?
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Absolutely spot on. I’m with indivisible il and we have been hosting monthly presentations on the attacks on public schools, school boards, teachers and marginalized youth. Also calling out right wing groups supporting and funding this effort. In Illinois, right wing group Awake-IL is trying to take over school boards and local offices. I thank you for all the great with you do!
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Thank you, Indivisible, for your important work!!
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“United” States??? More and more DISunited by the day.
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I am aware that you write from Europe. Also that your hero Putin has invested considerable resources into sowing dissension on social media sites. So you applaud his successes while you fail to acknowledge his failure in Ukraine. Many, many dead. Not just Ukrainian men, women, children, and elderly, but thousands of Russian soldiers. This is all Putin’s doing.
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Medical decisions involving children should be made by parents and doctors, not extreme right, lying politicians selling hate.
Medical decisions affecting adult women should be made by them and their doctors, not by extreme right, lying politicians selling hate.
Medical decisions affecting adult men should be made by them and their doctors, not extreme right, lying politicians selling hate.
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Reblogged this on Lloyd Lofthouse and commented:
VOTE in 2022
VOTE in 2024
VOTE in 2026 and keep voting as if your freedom and your future depend on it because it does.
Medical decisions involving children should be made by parents and doctors, not extreme right, lying politicians selling hate.
Medical decisions affecting adult women should be made by them and their doctors, not by extreme right, lying politicians selling hate.
Medical decisions affecting adult men should be made by them and their doctors, not extreme right, lying politicians selling hate.
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All medical decisions should be made between patients, the parents of patients and medical doctors. The state has no business trying to pervert these personal decisions into some type of moralistic campaign against certain groups of people with whom it disagrees. With the current composition of the Supreme Court, even justice has become more politicized than in the past.
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This is something I’ve watched for years, long before it became a cause celebre on the right. As the outrage grows on the right, I’ve come to believe, as Bob Shepherd has argued here, that a large part of this story is a moral panic. At the same time, there are way too many people on the left who quickly and entirely dismiss what I think are very legitimate concerns about the fast-increasing medicalization (often lifelong) of trans youth. This is a serious debate that would benefit greatly from a lowering of temperature, but unfortunately I see zero chance of that happening.
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This is a serious debate that would benefit greatly from people writing short, pithy comments instead of long-winded and wordy ones, but unfortunately I see zero chance of that happening.
Do you take me seriously?
On one side, the far right has PASSED LAWS to criminalize any medical treatment for trans teens.
On the other side, a misleading poster presents “way too many people on the left who quickly and entirely dismiss what I think are very legitimate concerns about the fast-increasing medicalization (often lifelong) of trans youth. ”
You have to be kidding. There has been lots of discussion in the medical community about the best approaches to treating trans youth. That discussion and debate is based on facts, truth, and reality.
That all changed when the discussion was taken over by those who amplified the right wing talking points. It’s kind of like trying to have a discussion about teaching about racism in schools and someone posting a slide from some random professional development presentation that supposedly support the idea of how many white students are suffering because of CRT.
It is absolutely true that those on the right have raised the temperature, and now the enablers and normalizers of those on the right are presenting the false narrative that both sides did.
But this is a serious debate that would benefit greatly from very short comments, but unfortunately I see zero chance of that happening.
Who, me? I can only blame those who won’t write very short comments.
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Linked below is a New York Times article that – for once – presents the transgender issue as one having various perspectives among highly qualified experts. The reader comments are revealing as well – they don’t agree with this blog’s accepted opinion. One of the top rated reader comments is this one:
“I am not trans, but I am bisexual, so I can kind of talk about queer issues, I guess?
Most of my friends are also bi, and we have one trans ftm friend, who I’ll call “Thomas” who is adamant about waiting until he turns 25 to proceed with any hormones and stuff. He did get his breasts removed, but other than that, nothing else was done.
Why 25? According to most doctors, that’s when the brain finishes developing. He wants to be 100% sure that the decision of sex change and hormones is definite and authentic.
He is trying to advocate on behalf of the trans community being more careful about open acceptance, saying that teenagers are very rash and make poor decisions, and rapid affirmation by everyone could only hurt the child.
Listen to Thomas.”
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““I am not trans, but I am bisexual, so I can kind of talk about queer issues, I guess?”
They can talk about anything they want, but being bi gives them no more authority on trans issues than being Latino gives one authority on Black issues. In any case, great for their friend Thomas, I guess, but Thomas (even as a trans person) does not get to speak for every trans person (especially since he kind of sounds like a hypocrite since he had irreversible surgery himself).
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You still didn’t admit that you were wrong about Sweden.
And why aren’t you quoting from the article instead of the comments?
Young people jump through a lot more hoops to get any kind of medical treatment than
Do you require teens who want nose jobs or ears pinned back to be 18 and first have therapy?
Do you require children to get growth hormones to have therapy first?
This article is far more nuanced than your presentations. And you still haven’t apologized for that.
What if I played that game to “prove” that people like Ivanka Trump suffered horrible harm by their terrible parents allowing them to have plastic surgery. Do you know that her terrible father never put her into the therapy you believe she should have had to affirm that having a big nose and a face that didn’t l,ook like a doll was normal and okay and that Ivanka was mentally ill to want to change it.
Now, Ivanka can’t return to her old face. Ivanka’s mental illness was treated with irreversible surgery instead of therapy for her mental illness.
The actress Jennifer Grey suffered so much because people like the Trumps got so much plastic surgery without first having to be in therapy to treat their mental illnesses of believing their was something so terribly wrong with their face that only irreversible surgery would cure it.
Right? Or are you a hypocrite who is politicizing an issue that doesn’t need the far right’s intervention.
Teens get far more counseling and support before medical intervention than Ivanka Trump did. Hard to imagine having a father so obsessed with beauty that he made his own daughter believe that if she didn’t undergo surgery she wouldn’t be pretty enough.
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Somehow, in the not too distant future, when all this nonsense is over, I know I’m gonna be paying more taxes to support all of the foolish kids and parents who opted for irreversible surgery. There will be plenty of “woke” psychiatrists who will decide they are now “permanently disabled” and unable to work due to post traumatic surgery disorder.
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Not to worry, you will be paying those taxes to keep up the roads and infrastructure that the billionaires need to increase their wealth. And to subsidize the lifestyle of the Trumps and other Republican billionaires who never have enough.
There is a lot more irreversible surgery done to kids like Ivanka Trump who have their perfectly fine faces “fixed” and now our taxes are going to support her family because they have bankrupted so many businesses.
Maybe if Ivanka had therapy instead of surgery, our taxes wouldn’t be supporting her grifting family.
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^^Ivanka now looks a lot like younger Marla Maples, which I find incredibly creepy. Maybe therapy before surgery is a good idea.
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Now that was a short, pithy comment worth reading. LOL
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Oh come on retired teacher – you don’t think both sides of the transgender debate are equally to blame for it becoming so politicized? All those transgenders activists infiltrating our public schools on one side, and people who just want to stop them to protect our children on the other.
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retired teacher,
I also want to add that my comment about Ivanka was short and pithy and funny, but it did absolutely nothing to further the discussion. It might get me a laugh and validation, but the only thing I really want is a truthful and nuanced discussion. Diane Ravitch herself posts incredibly nuanced and comprehensive comments. I love that. I don’t come here to be entertained. I’m definitely guilty of snark sometimes, but I never object when people like Linda or Duane write very long and detailed comments. I don’t have to agree with every point they made to respect that they supported their views with argument and honesty. I don’t like when snark replaces discussion, even if it is more entertaining.
And I object to the misinformation and mischaracterizations of those who don’t agree with them that the anti-trans posts here amplify. That is also similar to how the anti-public school people post. Full of misinformation designed to mislead, not to have an honest discussion about how to improve public schools.
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The transgender issue is mostly political which in my opinion should be a personal decision like a woman’s right to choose what happens to her body. Personal issues should not be politicized in my opinion as long as those decisions do not cause direct harm to others.
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retired teacher- “personal issues have become politicized”
Any possibility that it’s because religion has been politicized?
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Of course, religion like politics is inherently divisive. I do not believe that both sides are at fault. The right has made politics a blood sport, and there appears to be less common ground than before. Democrats and Republicans disagreed but respected each other.
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I’m a longtime friend of Kelly Johnson; we met through our mutual interest in education issues. An hour ago she mentioned to me that she had posted comments today on this blog. Before just now I hadn’t read this blog for at least two years because of its intemperance, especially that displayed by its regular commenters.
I know for a fact that Kelly is a lifelong Democratic voter, liberal on almost all issues, moderate on a few. She is definitely not a Trump supporter or right-wing. But because she defied far Left orthodoxy on the transgender debate she – like all other dissenters who ever post here – has been vilified and falsely characterized by people who have never met her.
Now I know even better why even many impeccably liberal people don’t bother reading this blog any longer. Too bad – it could be so much better.
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There is no “left orthodoxy” on the transgender debate. She isn’t a “dissenter”. She is a purveyor of the same right wing propaganda that you just amplified. That there is a “left orthodoxy” on the transgender debate.
It’s Orwellian because the OPPOSITE is true. There is a right orthodoxy in the transgender debate and the proof of that is that there are LAWS PASSED instead of the medical establishment having discussions.
But yes, if having truthful and reasonable discussions full of nuance and real concern for children is your definition of “left orthodoxy”, then you are right about this blog.
If the new definition of “left orthodoxy” means “don’t lie like the right wing”, then we are all guilty. Those who believe in lies should find another place to “discuss”.
But yeah, I believe an anonymous poster who just defined telling the truth as “left orthodoxy” over my own lying eyes.
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Please define “intemperance” and “impeccably liberal people”. I see the validity in Kelly’s original comment, but I also respect the right of others to dissent and disagree–but not as much as our host–especially when they can do so in a logical and rational way. Does that make me a member of the “far Left orthodoxy” (careful your slip is showing) or just plain peccable?
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I’m referring to personal attacks that NYC has posted today. Kelly presented an informed opinion, and NYC labeled her as right-wing and a Trump supporter. This blog hasn’t changed a bit in two years.
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Tim, you were not censored. Kelly was not censored. People express different points of view. You are essentially saying that you object to those who disagree with you. That’s called debate and discussion.
“The blog” permits different points of view.
I think I agreed with Kelly’s point that “immature” children should not undergoes surgery that cannot be reversed. That’s my opinion. It’s also my opinion that the medical treatment of young people, women, and men should be made by doctors, not legislatures.
What is she objecting to?
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Tim-
For those (like Kelly) who have joined the cause to protect others from “bad” decisions about things related to sex, their arguments become suspect because of right wing religion’s demands that liberty be curtailed by man’s interpretation of what God wants.
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Kelly said: “That’s why Sweden – a European social democracy – no longer allows such treatment for children under age 18. Moreover, various studies have found that over 90% of minors who claim to be transgender eventually identify with their chromosome-assigned gender when they reach early adulthood, with most of them being gay; fortunately for most of them, they haven’t been surgically changed or used questionable hormonal therapies.”
Tim Maloney, it is NOT a personal attack to point out when someone is MISinforming, not informing.
Stop repeating right wing talking points that it is “attacking” a person to point out when they lie. And people who “accidentally” misinform others actually correct their misinformation. They don’t double down on it. That is what people who intentionally lie do.
Like you did here. It is not a personal attack to point out that Tim Maloney defended a post that misinformed readers as something that no one should criticize. And instead attacked the critics.
No doubt you will continue to attack me instead of correcting the misinformation posted by Kelly.
Starting with what Sweden actually did, not what Kelly said they did.
Kelly described what the Republicans did by passing laws — Republicans criminalized treatment for trans children under 18.
Kelly did not describe what Sweden did. But I assume that she hoped that it would make what the Republicans did to directly harm so many trans teens more acceptable if she misled readers into believing that Sweden had also done that.
This blog respects truth, not misinformation. If respecting truth is now Tim Maloney’s definition of “liberal orthodoxy”, then that says a lot about what non-liberals believe. And it does explain the misinformation they post.
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When the right and left join in the same subterfuge that divorces issues from a theocratic agenda, it becomes evident why Leonard Leo received an award from his religious organization for his conservative SCOTUS and other judgeship appointments.
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Arkansas ranks 5th in religiosity and Tenn. ranks 3rd in the nation. The two states lean evangelical.
Hmmmm … LGBTQ and abortion issues have no connection to right wing religion?
Moms for Liberty finds air time on Christian media but, no connection…. the consideration of political outcomes if the truth wasn’t avoided would make a good pastime.
Media, political strategists, and this blog’s commenters report the loss of church membership caused by religious sect’s conservative pandering but, the consensus appears to be that there’s no political gain from exposing theocracy’s theft of our liberty. Putting it into perspective- people will leave a church they’ve belonged to and supported because of its right wing politicization but, people with no specific attachment to those same churches can’t be won over to Democratic voting based on messaging about the threat to democracy from the alliance of evangelicals and conservative Catholics.
The right wing rejected Tucker Carlson’s spin about Russia. Putin is a conservative Christian in a country that ranks 8th position in the top 10 countries for modern day slavery. Maybe we should rely on Americans to see the parallel.
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I will make the assumption that gender affirming treatment is not covered by insurance for the following comment:
We seem to have two governments interested in our health. One is the growing interest in our doctor on the part of those who would like to make our decision about the time when life begins. The other is the insurance company we hire to pay for our health care.
I am struck that in many incidences, there is a lot of governmental intervention by those who used to swear mighty oaths against the large and prying government. I wonder why.
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Roy
If you read comments at this blog, one answer to your question would be obvious. The contradictory views have no relation to right wing religion.
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Roy: Older Americans have good reason to be concerned about healthcare. As of January they cannot count on traditional Medicare for their healthcare. Medicare is poised to become a for profit entity thanks to private equity that has inserted itself into Medicare. Direct contracting services, aka, ACO Reach will be hijacking elderly Americans health without their consent or knowledge. It allows private companies to reach into Medicare to extract profit by denying service. It is privatization of Medicare without a public vote or even discussion. It is a horrible idea that will compromise the health of a vulnerable population that by definition needs comprehensive healthcare. The only group that was a vocal defender of Medicare was the 50 progressive Democrats in the House.https://www.fiercehealthcare.com/payers/cms-overhauls-direct-contracting-model-include-new-requirements-governance-and-health-equity
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This is truly frightening.
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retired teacher-
thanks for the link
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You make a very important point about the insertion of private for-profit companies into Medicare. They are called “Medicare Advantage” plans. They claim to offer more than Medicare. Bells and whistles. Here’s the catch: they reserve the right to deny services covered by Medicare. It’s a bait and switch. We should have learned by now that privatization means reduced services.
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ACO Reach is backdoor privatization of traditional Medicare even though nobody is choosing it. It allows private equity to reach into Medicare allotment and extract profit by denying coverage. It is very bad news.
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Sadly, Mayor DeBlasio and NYC’s municipal promoted a Medicare Advantage plan for all retirees. Fortunately, it has been held up by the courts, responding to dissident retirees who know it’s a scam.
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The thread above is a great example of democratic debate in action. Thank you to those who are participating in it. Yeah, the lies and false beliefs will be held up to the light in such debates. No, people are not cutting up children who decided to change their gender on a whim. It’s just not happening. Sex assignment surgeries don’t take place before the age of 18, though there are surgeries performed on intersex newborns.
So, this is a moral panic, like the Satanism scare of the 1980s and ’90s or the Devil Music scare of the 1950s and ’60s.
Here’s what IS happening, and it’s a BEAUTIFUL THING: People are starting to understand that they have choice in regard to both their gender identification and their sexual orientation. This is a WAY OVERDUE CORRECTION and a GREAT BIRTH OF FREEDOM.
In other words, we are witnessing one of those great generational social changes, and there have always been people who oppose those, who are scandalized by “those filthy Viennese waltzes the kids are dancing to these days!”
My take: In time, sanity will prevail. People will distinguish between sex (biological inheritance) and gender (cultural expectations). Bisexuality and gender fluidity will become common. A lot of people who never could be themselves will be able to be. A lot of people will broaden their horizons, see new potentials for themselves. And none of this will be a big deal.
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My own opinion, if it matters: Transitioning one’s biological sex is a decision that should be made only by a mature individual and his, her, or their doctor. And I think that 18 is probably too young to make such a decision, for people go through MAJOR changes in their outlooks after the age of 18. I think it probably a good idea to postpone hormone therapies until the age of 18, though I think that that decision should be made by the young person, by his or her or their doctor and parents. Knowing how changeable high-school kids are (I’ve had kids myself, and I have taught high-schoolers, I think it a big mistake to make the decision about surgical transition before one is fully an adult (in, say, at least one’s mid-to-late 20s. If people really groked the difference between sex, the biological inheritance, and gender, the cultural norms traditionally associated with sex, then this would be a LOT easier. They would understand that they can make a gender change at a fairly early age but postpone making a sex change until they are old enough to make so momentous a decision.
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Here’s why I would not support an absolute ban on beginning hormone therapy and puberty blockers earlier than age 18: There are some trans kids, like Casey in the anecdote I posted above, who are quite clear early on about their gender orientation, and such people should have the right to pursue the best course for them, based on what they, their doctors, and their parents decide.
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Toward the end of my career, I returned to teaching high school after years in the textbook industry. Two things struck me: One, that teachers have lost almost all autonomy in the intervening years, since I taught at the beginning of my career. Two, that high-school kids think that they are adults but really, really aren’t. They are still very much children, given to emotional extremes, extremely variable, extremely unformed, mostly clueless about most things, even as they tend toward absolutism in their opinions. Not news to anyone who deals with highschoolers a lot. It would be a very good thing, I think, if they understood that they can, in their youth, experiment with gender fluidity without taking steps they are not ready to take because of their lack of maturity and stability.
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Mr. Shepherd,
I agree with everything you say about the inadvisability of young people making irreversible decisions like very intrusive surgery for gender-affirming reasons. My first comment says likewise. But the radical transgender lobby disagrees with you and would label you “transphobic”. Such is the state of debate these days.
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Fact check: People udner the age of 18 do not undergo reassignment surgery in the United States.
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/mar/05/viral-image/no-young-children-cannot-take-hormones-or-change-t/
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See also: https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/2019/11/11/fact-check-what-does-law-say-about-children-and-sex-reassignment-surgery/984431007/
So, the position I have taken is identical to that of the American Academy of Pediatrics and of the World Professional Association for Transgender Health.
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Kelly,
You wrote an insulting comment on this blog yesterday. You insulted me and the many commenters by asserting that some or all of us endorse gender surgery for young children. That’s a flat out lie. You should be ashamed of yourself.
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Ms. Ravitch,
What are you talking about? I just read again every comment I wrote on this thread, and nowhere did I state or imply that anyone here endorses gender surgery for young children. I’ll only go so far as to say that some people are afraid to publicly oppose such surgery for fear of being labeled transphobic by radical transgender activists. I’ve seen that happen many times in online comments sections on other blogs and online publications.
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Kelly, I referred to this comment:
You wrote:
Linked below is just one of numerous articles that discuss Swedish policy on this issue. If you have more current, contrary information I’m happy to review it.
This blog so often descends into personal attacks whenever dissenting information or opinions are offered. It’s not a “lie” to have a different viewpoint; it’s not right-wing to be concerned about immature minors making irrevocable medical decisions about procedures that are far from universally accepted by credible experts.
https://genderreport.ca/the-swedish-u-turn-on-gender-transitioning/
dianeravitch
May 24, 2022 at 12:30 pm
Kelly, if it helps, I have never written a word in support of “immature minors making irrevocable medical decisions.” I don’t know if anyone who comments here has written in support of such an action. I happen to be personally opposed to any medical decisions by minors or to any unnecessary surgical procedures. I refuse to pierce my ears, for example, and abhor the thought of a tattoo. I have no idea where you got the idea that “this blog” supports views that it does not support.
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Kelly, you write that “the blog so often descends into personal attacks whenever dissenting information or opinions are offered.”
If you had said “some commenters,” I would have not cared. But when you say “the blog,” that’s me.
Please tell me when I have descended into “personal attacks” on you or anyone else.
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We really, really need decent sex education in this country. And that would include teaching young people about the difference between biological sex and gender identity. In every culture, there are LEARNED modes of being that are traditionally associated with being of a particular sex, and that’s what gender is. It’s not sex. For example, among the Masai of East Africa, the men wear brightly colored clothing, gather in groups and gossip, and engage in small handicrafts. Those are things associated with being a male. And that’s learned behavior completely opposite the behaviors learned by, say, a young man in 1950s America, where wearing bright colors, gossiping, and doing small handicrafts were considered feminine.
It would be useful to reserve the terms male and female for sex, for the biological inheritance, and man and woman for gender, the traditional acquired (and sometimes learned) behavior and modes of thought. The latter is quite subtle. One of the exercises I used to do as a teacher of theatre and film was to teach boys how to walk and sit as girls typically do and vice versa. These are really quite distinct, and for the most part, they aren’t learned but are acquired unconsciously. And they certainly aren’t biological GIVENS. Girls tend to walk with the shoulders back and the hips slightly forward, and they place one foot in front of the other as they walk, Boys tend to lean the shoulders slightly forward and swing their arms and shuffle their feet straight ahead of their resting positions. The placement of one foot in front of the other leads to the movement of the buttocks associated with feminine walking. It’s not that girls and women are consciously swinging their behinds. It’s that the alternation of one cheek up and the other down happens naturally as a consequence of placing one foot in front of the other when walking. An actor who is going to play one of the parts in a Shakespeare play that involves a single actor playing two different genders has to know these things.
I would use this instruction as part of a greater lesson in learning, as an actor, to observe everyday interactions with greater attention to detail than people usually do so that unconscious behaviors and tics can be incorporated into the actor’s toolkit.
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I once read a study of interactions with male and female cashiers and clerks. Both men and women tended to be a lot more chatty with the female cashiers and clerks and to be, generally, a lot nicer, a lot friendlier. When I read this study, I thought about a party I had been to recently at which there were two newborn babies. There I witnessed people going up to the male baby and doing things like fist bumping him and saying things like, “Hey, Luke, how’s the little man,” and going up to the female baby and saying things like, “Oooo, goo goo, aren’t you just the cutest little thing!” And then I thought of looking down the toys aisle at Toys ‘r’ Us and one of them being almost all pink and purple (Barbies, My Little Ponies) and the other being almost all green and black (G.I. Joes, action figures). Lots and lots and lots of gendered microconditioning from Day 1.
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Today, only four years later, in Flor-uh-duh, I would probably be fired for doing that lesson on boy-walking versus girl-walking. Even if it was in an acting class.
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It’s very useful, as well, to distinguish between LEARNED (consciously taught and attained) behaviors and ACQUIRED (unconsciously modeled and adopted) ones. This fundamental distinction should be an important part of every teacher training program but, alas, it’s not. Not understanding this distinction leads to all kinds of bad teaching, curricula, and pedagogy. But that’s another long discussion.
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Of course, as everyone except Republican legislators and governors and education commissioners knows, it’s the red states with the worst sex education that have the highest incidences of teen pregnancy, STDs in young people, early marriages, and divorce.
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A 5-16-2016 tweet from Robert P George, “With Obama’s bathroom edit, the right of parents to direct the upbringing and education of children is in graver peril than ever. Vouchers!”
George is described in the article as suggesting transgender rights are a danger to children.
The article that cites George’s tweet introduces Princeton Professor Robert P. George as “one of the country’s foremost Christian intellectuals.” (There’s ample evidence across the board that political writers studiously spin to omit one sect’s identity.)
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Robert George would say that vouchers are the answer to every problem.
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The right to make decisions about one’s own medical care and what interventions one accepts on behalf of themselves or their children is fundamental to human rights. Otherwise, we might all become part of constant medical experimentation without informed consent. This is why Covid19 vaccine mandates are wrong and have been wrong and need to be tossed. I’d welcome some articles about these that are written to enlighten, because so many of the mainstream outlets are ignoring the negatives the mandates have brought. Among the negatives, kids’ sudden loss of trusted school employees who were forced out of NYC Schools for not taking a vaccine whose current effectiveness and safety are now in question.
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