Marty Levine used to write regularly for the Nonprofit Quarterly, and he seemed to be the only person writing about philanthropy who understood the danger of the billionaire foundations’ disparagement of public schools and their love of privatization. Now he hashisown blog called Change Counts, which is consistently interesting. In this post, he examines the emotions that drive today’s angry protestors, who disrupt school board meetings and other public gatherings
He begins:
A few months ago, Rachel Pisani explained to Fox News what she was protesting at a recent Loudon County, Maryland school board meeting to Fox News. . “The goal was really parents being able to speak and express their concern about CRT (Critical Race Theory) and the fact that our school board wants to indoctrinate our children. We do not want to co-parent with our government. We want to be able to instill beliefs and instill our faith in our children without hesitation…we are an army of moms and parents that will not stop until we’re heard. So, they can mute our mics, they can arrest us, they can kick us off of public property. We’re not going to stop…This is insanity in America. This isn’t freedom of speech. It’s not freedom of religion. It’s racism and it’s cloaked in socialism.”
I have spent more hours than I care to count watching videos of public meetings where folks like Ms. Pisani are fired up to fight against CRT, or COIVID-19 policies, or library books, or gender-neutral policies. The subjects vary but the protests all seem to converge around a battle to protect the individual’s freedom. Speaker after speaker step forward and crowds shout to angrily decry the harm that is being done to them, their children, their community, and their nation by the elite, liberals, socialists, and communists. The voices are disrespectful, angry, often threatening…
The frustration, the sense of being wronged, of being ignored, of being dismissed and devalued resonates with me. But these protestors are different. They are not the marginalized. They are not battling to change corrupt systems or right past wrongs. They are fighting to prevent change, to keep the status quo. They speak of harms and threats I cannot see and do not feel. They see themselves as the marginalized and the oppressed; I see them as powerful, fighting to retain their position of privilege and control.
Unlike racism or poverty, they are battling manufactured problems.
The issues on their signs serve as smokescreens from the real motivation of these protestors. These are people who are motivated by their fear of loss not by a desire to make their community better for all. They fear that they will not get some benefit because it will go to some “other” who is not as deserving as they are. They fear that they will be replaced by others who have not paid their dues and waited for their turn…
To mask the game, the victimizers cast themselves and those that they are enlisting in their struggle as the victims. The Heritage Foundation has a “model bill”, one that it wishes Republican state legislators will enact, that speaks to this manufactured threat. The bill which holds back progress is couched in the very issues it opposes. When passed, it ensures “that administrators, faculty, and other employees of public elementary and secondary education institutions maintain policies in accordance with Title IV and Title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.”
The sheer audacity of this rationale for new legislation is breathtaking. The 1964 law was needed to give the Federal Government the power to desegregate the nation’s educational system over the objections of those still fighting to keep black Americans in the back of the bus. Title IV gave the Attorney General to intervene to end desegregation based on race, color, religion, or national origin; Title VI made the funding of all Federal programs conditional on ensuring that there was no discrimination. For the forces behind the protesters, this is the wizard’s curtain above all curtains.
This inoculation of righteousness is designed to mask the fear or replacement they believe will motivate protestors and voters to hold their line. It is designed to feed the fear of a changing country, of an uncertain time. It builds a fantasy that things were never really bad, that there are no real problems needing to address, that there is no challenging work that we all must do together. It clouds a reality that some have benefited from the pain and suffering of others and that repair of past harms is needed…
The orchestration of this “grassroots” uprising of outrage are those who have the most to gain from keeping us, as a nation frozen, in the past. They are those who fear their wealth and power is at risk if America addresses its wounds and lives its vision.
Standing behind these efforts are a group of ultra-wealthy men and women fighting to maintain their wealth and privilege at a time when it is clear how much richer the rich have become while everyone else falls further behind.Politicians can be purchased with campaign support; social movements are fueled by funds using the benefits of our nation’s charity rules which allow the wealthy to not only spend heavily but gain the benefits of a tax savings to boot!
A recent conference organized by ALEC (The American Legislative Exchange Council) to bring legislators and advocates together to build support for the manufactured outrage over CRT was paid for, according to the Center for Media and Democracy, by “ the Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation, a $934.4 million foundation funding right-wing campaigns to influence lawmakers in statehouses across the country.” And several other nonprofit organizations, also supported by Bradley, provided their expertise to fuel the fire. Included were “Garrett Ballengee, senior policy and research analyst at the Cardinal Institute; Jonathan Butcher, education fellow at The Heritage Foundation; Lance Izumi, senior director for education at the Pacific Research Institute; Libby Sobic, director of education policy at the Wisconsin Institute for Law & Liberty (WILL); and Jim Copland, director of legal policy at the Manhattan Institute.”
As Levine notes, the angry protestors are manipulated by the very rich and powerful. They are foot-soldiers in a well-funded effort to preserve the status quo. The ultra-rich play to their fear of being “replaced” by the others, whom they believe are undeserving. That they borrow the language of the civil rights movement to attack efforts to reduce racism is outrageous. But we have seen this movie before, when Arne Duncan, Joel Klein, President Obama, Michael Bloomberg, and then Donald Trump and Betsy DeVos told us that ”school choice was the civil rights issue of our time.”

“the angry protestors are manipulated by the very rich and powerful. They are foot-soldiers in a well-funded effort to preserve the status quo.”
“Foot soldiers” is a nice word for “saps”, which is what these people are.
Just like all the working class folks who support and vote for Trump: saps.
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And the rich and powerful don’t just want to “preserve the status quo. ” They want to roll everything back to a time before the civil rights movement.
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try before the New Deal
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Yes, but even “a time before a second after the Big Bang” would be included in “a time before the Civil Rights movement.
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Although I have no reason to believe they want to roll things back quite that far.(before the Big Bang). But maybe some do.
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Before a second after the Big Bang.
Before the Big Bang, time might not have existed (unless the universe is cyclical, as Roger Penrose believes)
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Then again, maybe some want to roll things back to a time when there was no time.
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I fear the logical end of such a condescending attitude is civil war, which we will lose. It behooves liberals to find a fresher, more compassionate perspective on the Trumpers, if only for selfish reasons.
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Dissolution of the union need not mean civil war. In fact, I believe it would be the height of stupidity to fight to keep states like Texas in the union when they are not willing to work with the rest of the states and instead are making every effort to impose their extremist policies (eg, antiabortion) on everyone else. I certainly would not volunteer to fight to keep Texas in. Would you?
And do you have a better word for people who continue to back policies and politicians (like Trump) who have quite clearly acted in opposition to their own interests?
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Being kind to fascists has never worked. Asking them politely to “stop,” has never worked. The more they feel welcome and respected in spaces, the more their numbers will grow. Sure, a few might change their ways and reconcile for their past. But, those are outliers, and we are running out of time for all that.
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If my Civil War you mean action in the streets between protestors/dissidents and a military acting as a police force, then that’s where we are headed. But the fascists will achieve control without an all-out Civil War.
People tend not to vote in Midterms. If they don’t in 2022, the Republicans win back the House and the Senate and won’t need Manchin and Sinema to render the Biden administration completely ineffectual. This sets them up for complete control of federal government by winning the Presidency in 2024. Then, with simple majority votes, the Republicans can expand the Supreme Court and create an even more Extreme Court than the current one is, a court that will rubber stamp authoritarian repression of dissent and of voting by the opposition.
And that’s how a minority party establishes a fascist dictatorship in the U.S.
We came close during the first Trump administration, but in the end, Milley, Esper, and Barr wouldn’t play ball.
The fall of American democracy will happen while people are busy watching Spiderman: No Way Home on their TVs and eating from that “Family Sized” bag of potato chips that was 3/4ths empty when they opened it.
Not with a bang but a whimper. With a pfooot
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Being kind to fascists has never worked. Asking them politely to “stop,” has never worked.
Exactly so.
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Dear Mr. Vader, if you keep insisting on using the Death Star, we shall be forced to hold a candlelight vigil and write letters to the editor in protest. You don’t want that! But we appeal to your good nature, to finding common cause with us. Would you like to come to a nice vegan dinner and discuss this with us? Sincerely, the Rebellion.
Vader, btw, means “father.”
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Really, Mr. Vader, you don’t want us linking hands and singing “Kumbaya,” do you?
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LetThemLearn
Agreed !!!
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Bob, you are right that the term “civil warr” is completely inapt in this case because it would be nothing like the original Civil War, which was initially fought simply to hold the union together and later on to end slavery.
The people who would start and encourage such fighting today would be those whose only interest is in imposing their own extremist fascist “vision” on everyone else.
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Darth Vader was a sap.
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A Sidious sap.
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The reason this happened is the media and the scolds telling us we had to “be nice” to the fascists. We had to “understand” the fascists. Those who called out their most reprehensible actions were ‘too mean” to people who wanted to hurt them.
These people needed to be marginalized from the start, and instead the media bent over backward to treat them with kindness and elevate their nastiest fact-free beliefs as if they were just as valid as the truth.
I also see it here, with certain Trump apologists who post fact-free attacks on Democrats and normalize the racist actions of Republicans.
Constantly making false equivalencies in which there is no difference between peaceful Black Lives Matters protesters and violent, hate-filled insurrectionists storming the capitol to install their leader because he couldn’t win an election but they wanted him to be president anyway. Constantly blaming Democrats for supposedly exaggerating the wrongdoings of Republicans.
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Ponderosa’s statement reflects a cultural and economic shift.
The GOP’s message is working. They’re telling lesser educated White men and their wives/girlfriends that Republicans will make POC and women stand back so that, as God intended, Whites can get a bigger piece of the (declining) economic pie.
The following is what has changed since FDR. In terms of the nation’s White voting majority, from the mid 1940’s to the 1980’s, intelligent Americans largely went to college. It was the same for all White demographic segments regardless of national origin (German, Irish, Italian) or, religion (Catholic, Protestant). Most of them made good salaries and the threat of poverty didn’t loom for them. And, from the 1960’s to the mid 1980’s, most were happy to have Black families rise with them. A caveat- there’s reason to believe that they wouldn’t have welcomed a large Black segment rising above them.
During the same 1940-1980’s, unions who represented workers guaranteed respect and good pay for the unskilled. When paychecks provided security and a good living, the disparity with the college-educated “elites” didn’t rankle them. And, the majority of the college-educated, knowing their own parents had been working class, weren’t as condescending with the less educated.
Reality is only selectively introduced into discussions like Levine’s. Whites who aren’t in the the richest 1% don’t have reason to be economically hopeful (nor, do other segments).
Attempts to build cohesion of view will be tough when (1) conservative religions are working for the GOP’s divisiveness (2) great wealth disparity exists and (3) the wealthy demand that the poor be loathed.
Rational people telling the fearful and incensed (regardless of the merits of their claims) that the end of times, which brings with it the promise of reward, is not headed this way, is going to be a tough sell.
One small point that provides example of cultural and economic change.- Italian Americans were a key component of the coalition of ethnic groups that elected FDR in 1932.
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I’m really surprised and disappointed that so many otherwise intelligent liberals seem to park their intelligence when it comes to thinking about Trumpers. Instead it’s all blind hate, sneering, snark, incuriosity, mercilessness, name calling, keyboard tirades, ignoring their humanity and treating them like demons……All this makes them hate us more. Folks, we are married to these people. If we want to avoid divorce or worse, we must learn to love them. Most of my students are Trumpers;so I know it’s possible to like and respect them despite their noxious political views and ignorance on many fronts. I’m trying to educate them with respect; in turn, they like me, despite my differences. Spewing hate and disrespect at the Other will just lead to disaster. Why do so many liberals seem to think it’s smart policy to poke the tiger over and over?
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Quote from Ponderosa: “It behooves liberals to find a fresher, more compassionate perspective on the Trumpers, if only for selfish reasons.” end quote
What it should have been: It behooves right-wingers/Trumpers/GOPers to find a fresher, more compassionate perspective on the liberals/progressives, if only for selfish reasons.
Oh wait, that was redundant, right-winger/Trumper/GOPers are selfish by definition.
The right wingers, GOPers, and Trumpers are not looking for amity and cooperation, they are looking for the destruction of the Democrats and democratic (small d) norms.
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“Instead it’s all blind hate, sneering, snark, incuriosity, mercilessness, name calling, keyboard tirades, ignoring their humanity and treating them like demons……All this makes them hate us more.”
Esqueeze me? Who, again, are you describing? Where are the threats to the concept of democracy coming from? Who’s been asserting their so-called 2nd amendment rights? Who’s been differentiating between “real Americans” and everybody else? It behooves the Idiot’s cult to see their self-described “enemies” as human beings, if only for selfish reasons. Once they do that, give us a call. Give me a break.
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“unthinkable, non existent 50 years ago”
The source for the following (1) “hostility to political liberalism” (2) the “invention of political militancy against ….” (3) “a narrative built around the theme that they were endangered”, is identified – – people are named to present day, and the author’s hope for the future can be found– in the Nov. 19, 2019 paper, “Catholic Colonization of the American Right: Historical Overview”, by Blandine Chelini-Pont, posted at the HAL Open Science archives.
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Ponderosa,
Don’t you see your double standard?
When do the others have to treat us with respect?
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GregB,
Absolutely right. It is the Trump voters who are more like Ponderosa described. “blind hate, sneering, snark, incuriosity, mercilessness, name calling, keyboard tirades, ignoring their humanity and treating them like demons”. That is what Trump supporters do.
I have been in group discussions on Facebook with (real) people from where I grew up where the non-Trump supporters (some of them former and likely future Republicans) have been almost universally kind, compassionate comments during the conversations.
But the Trump supporters are angry and say ugly things. I am trying to think of even one reasonable or kind comment by them during the many discussions pre and post the 2020 election and I can’t. All about the anger and sense of victimhood.
Ponderosa’s comment tells you how deep this problem is — the bending over backward to normalize what should not be normalized and the scapegoating of others for their behavior.
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NYPSP, just watched the exchange between Fauci and paul in today’s hearing. Paul is such a vile human being, as are so many of the Republicans. I mean just as humans, not politically. Cruz, Jordan, Desantis, Blackburn, Gohmert, and on and on. Not that all Dems are angels, but I can think of few who are just horrible. Now, remind me why the burden on is us to make nice and bend over backwards to see their point of view (even though we know it well) is on us?
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Greg, in your list of loathsome Republicans, you left out some of the worst, like Marjorie Taylor Greene, Matt Gaetz, and Madison Cawthorne.
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I saw Sen Rand Paul berating Dr Fauci. He wouldn’t let him speak until the committee chair insisted
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There are Trump voters who are bonkers and awful people. There are also Trump voters who are generally ok people and not that difficult to get along with. I find humor smooths over a lot of differences.
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I don’t get the vitriol. Ponderosa simply sad that it would behoove people to be nicer. I don’t agree with her. I think that Biden is making PRECISELY that mistake with regard to Trump and the other insurrectionists–trying to play by the rules and to maintain civility at a time when there is a freaking hole in the hull. And I think that that civility could be the death knell of democracy. But jeez, people, Ponderosa is not a fascist. I disagree with her on this point–I think that negative social sanction is a powerful force for change–but ease up already.
And yes, the other commenter are correct that the most extreme vitriol is coming from the Right. These are the people who are CALLING FOR civil war, the execution of political leaders, insurrection. And they are the ones with the military-style weaponry.
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Her or him. I don’t know Ponderosa/s gender or sex.
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So true. There are many fine Trump supporters who are OK people! They are OK with restricting women’s health rights but demand everyone else keep away from theirs. They are OK with spending trillions on unneeded defense, but not spending a fraction of that to provide health care, education, public works, and so on. Oh, and they are OK with tax cuts and elimination of all progressive taxation. They are also OK with death threats being lobbed at public officials like Mardi Gras doubloons. The are OK with so much, how dare anyone question that. They’re doing just fine after all. And will continue to do so because it will be OK when we have laws that keep those pesky people from having us return to the good old days and know their place.
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Greg,
You forgot to mention one OK.
They are OK with shooting to kill unarmed people with an AR or a shotgun (whichever is the preferred weapon for “patrolling) — including someone who is out for a jog in broad daylight.
You know, because you never know when a jogger might actually be a serial killer carrying a concealed gun in his shorts.
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Poet:
When you sneer at Trumpers for voting “against their interests” you repeat something I hear over and over from liberals. It seems to me that this shows liberals just don’t get it. Humans don’t live on bread alone. Humans live on respect, a sense of dignity and meaning and other “spiritual” items. THAT’S what Trump gives them, and that’s what they’re voting for. Democrats, perhaps because of Marx’s materialism focus trickling down to them, seem utterly blind to this. It’s a major failing. MSNBC/CNN hosts spewing disrespect toward them just drives them further into the Trump camp, beneficial economic policy be damned. We should show respect for their religion, their guns, their tastes, their values to get them to back down from their crazy extremism and flirtation with fascism. Instead we idiotically withhold the respect that they need.
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Ponderosa
Is that how you show respect for people?
By lying to them and telling them what they want to hear?
Remind me again who is showing the greatest disrespect for them: the one who tells them the truth: that people like Trump are just using them and that they are voting against their own interests?
Or the one who tells them lies in an attempt to fool them?
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SDP, right on the mark.
“Humans live on respect, a sense of dignity and meaning and other ‘spiritual’ items. THAT’S what Trump gives them, and that’s what they’re voting for.” You know, exactly the way they treat everyone else who reads, pays attention, and is capable of thinking.
[The Idiot]…respect…dignity…spiritual… Jeesh. I think my head is about to explode. I wonder what Arendt would have called deluded enablers of fellow travelers?
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Ponderosa’s comments show the very precarious position our democracy is in.
I know Ponderosa is a good person. I know Ponderosa supports good policies and doesn’t agree with the views of Trump voters.
But she does not realize how important it is NOT to be complicit.
In Nazi Germany, it wasn’t that the vast majority of Germans agreed with the ugly rhetoric and actions of the Nazis.
It was that the vast majority of Germans were complicit.
I can’t believe that Ponderosa is invoking right wing tropes — she keeps using the term “liberals” which she seems to identify as a group other than herself — blaming “liberals” for why the people she knows support Trump.
That’s called scapegoating. I wish she would stop finding a scapegoat — us — to blame for why the families she knows are drawn to hateful and ugly and violent rhetoric. If they find a hero in Trump, that is solely because of them.
I know plenty of conservative voters who got what is wrong with the Republican party. They are some of the loudest critics of the people who remained. They don’t blame “liberals” and I don’t understand why Ponderosa does.
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Have you guys heard a word I said?”
Yeah. A butt. Hey heh heh heh
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Donald Trump’s the Antichrist
Donald Trump’s the Antichrist
Of this we can be sure
His deeds and actions do suffice
To make the case de jure
He’s opposite to Jesus Christ
In every single way
And followers should be advised
To fear the judgement day
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No other single thing will ensure that you go to Hell than following the antiChrist.
So even if there is a very small probability that Trump is the antiChrist, followers should be concerned.
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NYCP:
I’m trying to give constructive criticism to my fellow Democrats. Our communication skills suck. As Bob said, I’m coming from the perspective of one who sees our inadequate curriculum and the full gamut of American humans on a daily basis –the F students to the A students. I know these people. I know what registers and what doesn’t register with these people. I’ve also spent thousands of hours in Walmart parking lots talking to the People about voting. Because I’m a teacher, I can tell when my words are hitting home and when they’re not. There’s a certain register of speech that IS NOT COMPREHENDED. Because of my teaching and especially because of my reading E.D. Hirsch’s profound works, I know more about mental processing of verbal information than many people, and so I can detect Democratic strategists’ deficiencies in that department. Trump is no scholar but he understands on an intuitive level the limitations of C-F students’ comprehension ability when it comes to matters of the public sphere. A construction worker may be a genius when it comes to drywall, but he’s often feeble minded when it comes to public policy. So to reach him you’ve got to talk in a certain way. As Bill Clinton advised Obama: “You’ve got to put the corn where the hogs can reach it.” And you’ve got to stop insulting them (I know: the Clinton quip is somewhat insulting, but he was saying this in private).
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Here’s a progressive who understands how to connect with rural whites:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/01/11/what-progressive-champion-rural-maine-can-teach-democrats-about-winning/
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Ponderosa,
It’s funny that you cited that Washington Post story about the Maine progressive politician because I was specifically thinking of another story I read a year or more back about a progressive young woman in Maine or Vermont (can’t recall where) who also won a local election in a largely Trump-supporting rural Republican district.
I love these stories. Just like I loved the stories in 2000 when “she who cannot be named” (loser to Trump in the 2016 election) decided to run for Senate as essentially a carpetbagger. “She who cannot be named” was lauded because she went to the rural areas of upstate NY and engaged with the voters. They loved her. She won handily.
Here is how it is described: “many New York residents saying that Clinton “seems like one of us.” She discussed local issues such as price supports for the dairy industry, fares for air travel, college tuition levels, and the brain drain in parts of the state”.
They continued to love her right up until the Republican smear machines’ lies were repeated by the media and progressives who eagerly embraced the tropes blaming “she who could not be named” for why they and the media needed to amplify the “honest” character attacks against her. She hadn’t changed one bit. She worked for everything she said she would. It was the media who destroyed her. Same thing happened to progressive Bill de Blasio and the extreme hate that the progressives helped amplify about how awful and useless and corrupt a progressive politician is.
Here is what will happen to Chloe Maxmin. If that wonderful Maine progressive runs against a Republican in a Senate or governor race or any race that the billionaires decide the Republican needs to win, she will be re-cast as an out of touch Harvard elite, and all those rural voters will believe she is the embodiment of commie socialism or whatever attacks work, and they will turn against her.
But only if people who should know better join in the attack on her and the media decides the way to be fair and balanced is to make sure to publish at least a few major articles every day about how “everyone” perceives Chloe Maxmin as being “too Harvard” and “doubts are sown” about how out of touch she is and “she just doesn’t speak their language”. Or if that doesn’t work, there will be something blown up into some “corruption” that involves progressives and media amplifying that “voters have doubts about her integrity”.
Honestly, I have heard the exact same conversations since 1980 when Jimmy Carter lost to Reagan. The same certainty by voters who themselves reinforce the right wing propaganda that destroys good candidates who then claim it was all the candidate’s fault.
I saw it in 1984. I saw it in 1988. I saw it in 2000. I saw it in 2004. I saw it in 2016.
Notice I left some years out? In 1992, after their 1988 debacle in turning a once popular, regular guy from working class background who served his country in the military into an “elite, out of touch pro-rapist liberal”, the media had a reckoning. They did not play along with all the attempt to smear Bill Clinton. And no one was willing to smear Obama, likely because anyone who wasn’t a right winger – including the media – understood that they would look like racists by amplifying the propaganda of racists. Obama’s missteps — like Clinton’s and Trump’s and Bush’s and Reagan’s — were reported once and not turned into a musing about how untrustworthy and dishonest the candidate was.
Untrustworthy, dishonest, elite, out of touch. Al Gore. Kerry. She who must not be named. And Chloe Maxmin, as soon as she runs again any Republican that the right billionaires’ propaganda arm decide must win.
And when those rural voters who previously supported Maxmin start talking about how out of touch and corrupt she is, will you understand?
Those politicians you say were out of touch NOW were lauded for being in touch, just like Chloe Maxmin was.
You see the same thing happening to AOC. The same kind of smears. so far, hasn’t worked, but I don’t have a lot of faith that it won’t eventually if there are people out there who legitimize and amplify it because, like you, they say they only want to “help.”
Read closely what Chloe was saying to voters and understand that is what the majority of democrats say to voters. Stop pushing right wing propaganda about how they are all elite and out of touch and don’t speak the same language or go out there.
The ONLY people out of touch are the Republicans who sell their voters on hate and lies and give them absolutely nothing! And the voters respond to THAT. So think about if that means that another strategy is to give the voters you talk about the same hate and scapegoats as the Republicans do.
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I can think of a few choice words better than saps. However even Zuckerberg has stopped me from using them.
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To your point, SomeDAM: When Trump famously had his picture taken in the Oval Office with all those Evangelical preachers doing the laying on of hands and prayer bit with him, after they left, he said to the staff that remained behind, “Can you believe it? They actually believe that shit.”
To people like Trump, the world is divided into manipulators, like him, and marks, like everyone else. Don the Con.
And the Biden administration is fiddling while democracy burns by attempting to let bygones be bygones and not dealing aggressively to bring the con man to account. The danger of this inaction is incalculable.
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“Can you believe it? They actually believe that shit.”
That was also my reaction, but I have a slightly different interpretation for the last two words: Trump.
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Trump happens.
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In Michael Cohen’s book, he recounts the story of Trump meeting with evangelical leaders and how Trump sneered at them after they left.
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I’m sure Trump did sneer at them –in private. In public he fawns on them. This performance is what endears him to the the evangelicals –they probably don’t even care if it’s genuine. The important thing is that he’s genuflecting to them and lauding them with his megaphone.
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Ponderosa
The protection squad for the other, more powerful conservative religion includes mainstream media, well-known influencers and, blog commenters?
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Let us praise ”
Let us praise
The Trump enablers
Leit’s appease
The 6th’s invaders
Let us bow
To Qanon
Here and now
And well beyond
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I believe that the future of democracy hinges up on democrats getting out the vote this year, that we are at one of those dramatic inflection points of history–a pot on the stove just before it starts boiling–a phase shift–and that if that vote does not come, and overwhelmingly, we are in for a very long, horrific time in which an overtly fascist government assumes power in the United States.
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
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Yes, yes, yes.
I was thinking that the main message that the Democrats need to get out is VOTE. Get out the vote. Go out and vote. Don’t worry about the people who claim you need a “message”, who have cowed the Democrats into believing the ridiculous idea that because they are “too conservative” or “too progressive”. Just get people out to vote, by telling them that voting in the Democrats with a sweeping majority is the only way to make things better.
And we should know this from the Republicans’ intense battle to make it as hard as possible for people who aren’t their traditional white voters to vote.
We should know this from the Republicans’ intense propaganda efforts targeted directly at progressive voters who push the false narrative that there is no difference between the parties so don’t bother to vote. Somehow that message is never repeated by Republicans who know very well that there is a huge difference between the parties and the far right will come out to vote for Republicans even if Roe v. Wade wasn’t repealed as soon as George W. Bush or Trump took office or as soon as they voted in their right wing Senator. Republican voters understand the long game, and the rest of us need to understand it too. Vote.
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I’ll be getting out the vote for Democrats again this cycle. But selling democracy is tough when many voters know so little about civics and history and why democracy for all it’s flaws is the best alternative. “Democracy” is just a vague abstraction for them; Biden’s seeming senility or trillion dollar budget deficits or rampant homelessness are much more real. At times like these I wish our schools were doing a much better job of teaching about the horrors of dictatorship and that Democrats really understood how to communicate with the masses in clear, intelligible terms.
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You may call yourself a Democrat, but I don’t understand why when you completely accept the narrative of their opponents? Sounds republican to me: “Biden’s seeming senility or trillion dollar budget deficits or rampant homelessness are much more real.”
Senile to whom? Deficits, why? Rampant homelessness, again why?
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GregB,
Nailed it. Why didn’t Trump’s seeming senility and the huge budget deficit caused by giving the wealthiest Americans bother those voters and cause them to stay home instead of worshipping Trump and their Republican leaders who also worship Trump.
Maybe Ponderosa can answer that.
I bet Ponderosa could walk into class and ask her students whether it is better to have a huge budget deficit so billionaires can have even more money or to have a huge budget deficit so we can build more roads and bridges and make sure that their families have affordable health insurance. I bet her students would have a difficult time defending their support for Republicans if they were taught the reality. And if her students tell her that Republicans also want to provide affordable health insurance, she can ask them to show her their plan. That’s better than showing compassion that just lets her students go on believing that the Republicans have a great plan.
But if Ponderosa accepts the false right wing narratives as true, then I fear that is exactly what her students are learning. Biden is senile and Trump isn’t. Democrats cause huge budget deficits and Republicans don’t.
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The nile is not just a river in Egypt:
Trump is all the niles rolled into one: senile, juvenile, penile, spleenille, venile, denile, meanile,
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Excellent!
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puerile
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This one’s for you, Bob:
https://crooksandliars.com/2022/01/desantis-wants-fox-news-run-ecudation
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Greg
While Trump is indeed puerile, that is not a nile, although puernile might work iinstead (since some of mine are also apocryphnile)
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NYC,
I don’t believe Biden is senile; my point is that that’s probably how many low information voters see him –and not just because of Republican propaganda. It’s a perception that breaks through the perpetual fog that surrounds the minds of the average non-intellectual. The Democrats are not getting any clear perceptions to break through this fog –or at least not the perceptions they want. The Republicans are much more skilled at this. Democrats don’t understand how the minds of C-students work. They act as if everyone’s a Wellesley grad and that big words and complex sentences will win them over. But America is a land of C-students who are put off by big words and complex sentences. This includes many black and brown voters who are already beginning to migrate to the plain-speaking common sense party. I fear Democrats won’t realize they’re in Cloud-Cuckoo-Land until it’s too late.
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Putin doubtless intends to invade Ukraine, whatever happens. He has moved helicopters (used for evacuating wounded soldiers) to the Ukrainian border. The timing might well be such as to make Biden look completely ineffectual, unable to stop it.
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Too birds in one fell swoop. @@($@(*@!!!
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Now you see why I would never be called a poet. Although, in this case, I know it.
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I would say that anyone who writes “plain-speaking common sense party” when referring to the current grouping that calls themselves Republicans is skirting pretty close to fascism, and even that’s giving quite a lot of leeway. Hope that’s not considered vitriol. I think it is just an obvious observation.
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Didn’t she mean that that’s what Republicans think?
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“They act as if everyone’s a Wellesley grad and that big words and complex sentences will win them over. ”
This is how insidious right wing propaganda is. This is just patently false but it is repeated as if it is true.
Ponderosa, democrats believe that TELLING THE TRUTH will win them over. If you completely mischaracterize TELLING THE TRUTH as “big words and complex sentences” instead of what it is — TELLING THE TRUTH — then there is no hope for your students.
And if you don’t teach them the difference between a misstatement by a Democrat that the Democrat corrects when it is pointed out, and the endless lie after lie where Republicans want your students to believe a FALSE REALITY, then our country is in even graver danger than I thought.
Ponderosa, the best evidence that you have been propagandized is that you wrote the sentence above: “”They act as if everyone’s a Wellesley grad and that big words and complex sentences will win them over. ”
And you also wrote: “we idiotically withhold the respect that they need” and “such a condescending attitude
So to sum up, Ponderosa blames “liberals” for using sentences that are too complex for those C- voters when we talk to them and she also blames “liberals” for not showing any respect for them.
This is classic scapegoating. Trump could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue — or try to violently steal an election he lost — and no matter what “liberals” do, it’s their fault that Trump supporters are perfectly fine with it.
This is an unwinnable argument because it’s about the side that is telling the truth being blamed for the side that condones lies and violence.
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I think that Ponderosa is being misunderstood. Ponderosa believes, if I understand this correctly, that U.S. education is in a woeful shape and that as a result, the electorate can’t understand much of anything. It’s all big words and complex sentences to an uneducated populace. So, this is not “blaming liberals.” It’s blaming an education system that doesn’t give citizens what they need in order to participate wisely in democratic processes.
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I think that Ponderosa’s argument is being misunderstood and mischaracterized.
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It’s not an attack on liberals. It’s an attack on an education system that has gone down the “all skills, all the time” rabbit hole and hasn’t taught students the essential knowledge they need in order to participate rationally in a democratic system.
The fact that 74 million people voted for the guy who thought we should inject disinfectant and that stealth airplanes were actually invisible should give us pause.
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No, Bob, I think you are the one who is confused in this instance. You quite rightly state that at the core of Ponderosa’s is an admirable goal, but the logic used to get there makes no sense whatsoever. One cannot adopt the complete narrative of the opposition, especially if that narrative is easily, objectively torn apart because neither the rhetoric nor the actions in any way lines up with the stated goal. [If Communists, Jews, social democrats, liberal Catholics, and atheists would only be nicer to Nazis and try to understand their points of view, things would be so much better!]
These arguments are rooted and transparently visible to all in white grievance. Let me get this straight. As I understand this argument, I would summarize it as: people who support the Idiot are misunderstood and if those of us who don’t agree with them would only take the time to see their point of view and move closer to it, we would save democracy. That’s how I read it. And that’s why it’s no longer worthy of comment.
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No compromise with fascists.
Oh, don’t worry about this Hitler fellow. We can control him, keep him in line. I say, give him the title, work with him, compromise.
How did that work out?
So, I totally understand where you are coming from, Greg.
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Once again, timing. The Cleveland Plain Dealer published an editorial today imploring Sen. Rob Portman to run for reelection. They do so in part because of the crazies in the race so far. (For those of you not in Ohio, check out Bernie Moreno ads on YouTube; some of the most offensive, racist, and patently stupid stuff you couldn’t make up.) They go on to use the buzzwords upon which Portman has made a long career out of doing nothing and acting like a boring, non-threatening white guy who votes for and supports virtually every item on MAGA and corporate donor checklist.
Instead of pointing out the fear and how any Republican will give us more of the same, they go back to the exact same policies but with a bland, unoffensive (if you’re not paying attention) facade. Fascism is just fine if it’s polite dinner company. And newspapers like the Plain Dealer would rather live with that than any Democrat, especially one who might stand up for the rule of law.
https://www.cleveland.com/opinion/2022/01/rob-portman-ohio-needs-you-dont-retire-seek-another-term-editorial.html
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nycpsp 1/12@1:03am– “Ponderosa, the best evidence that you have been propagandized is that you wrote the sentence above: ‘They act as if everyone’s a Wellesley grad and that big words and complex sentences will win them over.’ ”
Dismissal of a point via ad hominem doesn’t answer it. As one who grew up rural (& maintains contacts there) I can testify this attitude is common as dirt among rural blue-collars and working poor, and has changed little over my lifetime. This attitude has if anything been reinforced in recent decades: education makes some inroads, but when your better ed lands you no better (or worse) job/ income than your parents/ grandparents, you tend to no-fault to what you heard growing up.
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Anti-intellectualism does have a long pedigree in the U.S. That’s what H. L. Mencken raved about so humorously. The fact that he could think and speak was death to any potential presidency on the part of Adlai Stevenson. When the Pugs fielded Reagan as their candidate, I thought, surely people won’t vote for a B-movie actor who wants to end Social Security? When they fielded Little Bushie, I thought, surely they won’t vote for a guy who dodged the draft, went AWOL from his service, drove several companies into bankruptcy, and has a history as a rich party boy. When they fielded The Orange One, I thought, surely they won’t vote for a fascist, criminal, utterly ignorant money launderer for Russian mobsters.
I’ve come to think that there is no underestimating the stupidity of the American people. Heh heh. Fireworks. Yeah, man. Freedumb! Masks kill! Trump is Mussolini’s grandson and was appointed by God! Heh heh. Bevis and Butthead vote for their President.
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“They act as if everyone’s a Wellesley grad and that big words and complex sentences will win them over. ”
We can thank the College Board for that.
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Let us thank the College Board”
Let us thank the College Board
For Ivy grads and such
The College Board should be adored
For giving us so much
The great big words
And sentences
That few can comprehend
Are like the prison sentences
That never seem to end
For
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The U.S. still has more people in ail, in prison, and on parole than does any country in the world.
And that’s what “freedom” means in a country ruled by the money of oligarchs.
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cs: overestimating. Yikes. Maybe it’s contagious.
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Boarded Up Society
The College Boards
And corporate boards
And prison boards
Are our rewards
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Contagious and contiguous
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Llearned the latter word for the SAT decades ago and I think that’s the first time I have ever actually used it.
Which makes it even more amazing that I actually remembered it
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Most people just say “the lower 48” instead of “the contiguous United States”( or even more pompous “conterminous United States”
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I never thought of contiguous as a particularly fancy word. It’s not one of those for which a simple, precise, one-word Anglo-Saxon-derived alternative adjective exists. Adjoining and abutting are equally Latinate (the latter from Old French and Germanic sources combined) and so “fancy,” and neither carries the full sense of the word. So, nothing wrong with “contiguous.” When people make these kinds of objections, I say, learn the freaking language.
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“Adjoining and abutting are …”
He said ” a butt. ” Huh, huh, huh huh
Yeah, yeah. he said a butt. A butt. Huh, huh huh huh
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I was referring to the Governor of Arkansas, SomeDAM.
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Married my cousin up in Arkansas
Married two more when I got to Utah
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bethree5 says:
“nycpsp 1/12@1:03am– “Ponderosa, the best evidence that you have been propagandized is that you wrote the sentence above: ‘They act as if everyone’s a Wellesley grad and that big words and complex sentences will win them over.’ ”
Dismissal of a point via ad hominem doesn’t answer it. As one who grew up rural (& maintains contacts there) I can testify this attitude is common as dirt among rural blue-collars and working poor, and has changed little over my lifetime. This attitude has if anything been reinforced in recent decades: education makes some inroads, but when your better ed lands you no better (or worse) job/ income than your parents/ grandparents, you tend to no-fault to what you heard growing up.”
bethree5, you didn’t read my entire statement. Even if you believe the patent lie that we nasty “liberals” use words that are “too big” and “too complex”, it is the most hypocritical thing to ALSO be saying that liberals are “talking down” to those people and being condescending to them. You are the one being condescending to them and acting like being working poor makes them stupid.
You can’t have it both ways. it’s pure hypocrisy.
Ask yourself why working class and poor people who are NOT white don’t believe the same lies. They have the same education, and suffer from the same economic hardship — even worse. Bending over backward to excuse the racism of white Trump voters is part of the problem. They love Republican businessmen because their issue isn’t economics, it is their belief that the reason for their situation is the “other”. They WANT those scapegoats.
Furthermore, I grew up in Trump country and I know those people and it is absolutely insulting to the many who are conservative but understand the difference between truth and lies to pretend that the TRUTH is “too complex” for them to understand. Talk about a condescending attitude.
And invoking “Wellesley”? Give me a break. The only sneering person is Ponderosa.
Unless you grew up in Trump country and know those people personally, I question yours and Ponderosa’s innuendo that we need to sympathize with their racism and embrace of the lies that will destroy democracy because they are just too stupid to understand the difference between the truth and lie because that is “too complex”. Have you ever tried having a conversation with them? They are BRAINWASHED. Their good friends who are just as conservative as they are cannot get them unbrainwashed, and it has nothing to do with their very conservative good friends talking like “Wellesley grads”.
It has to do with the media and those like you and Ponderosa who are unwilling to actually call them out for what they are because they feel so much sympathy for them. Treating them kindly doesn’t make a difference, but it does reinforce their CERTAINTY that they must be right. They know they are right because their side has no problem saying that the our side is full of liars and criminals while our side – teachers like Ponderosa – reinforce their side’s narrative that we are the ones at fault. Look at us liberals, we don’t even have the courage to tell them they are wrong, and their side stands up for what they believe in and isn’t afraid to “tell it like it is” and call out the lies and criminality and corruption of “us liberals”.
This has got to stop before it’s too late. Which, given Ponderosa’s complicit view, I suspect it already is.
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Can’t argue with that, NYPSP. A bit long, but who am I to criticize? (see Pot v. Kettle, et al) But I think you buried the lede in that comment. I was struck by “and has changed little over my lifetime.” Again, why? And is that what they want?
I would say another thing that has changed little are the racial/cultural demographic percentages. I would assume big changes in age demographic, but they reinforce the status (what’s past in Latin?). And if you think about it, perhaps the only way that a little change might get into the community is through education. Learning about other people, places, and ideas that are not in your community. When I do that, I notice a lot of changes in me that accumulate into fundamental ideas over time.
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If they knew enough archaeology and history to doubt the Exodus story? If they knew enough comparative mythology to understand that the early Hebrews were not monotheistic and that the story of the flood was picked up from earlier Sumerian and Babylonian epics? That one of the two contradictory creation stories in Genesis contains a reference to the primordial Mesopotamian Sea goddess Tiamat? Again, I think it would.
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The Republicans want to restrict what can be taught and learned precisely because they want to keep the base ignorant. Some share that ignorance of the base. Others find it extremely useful.
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If they knew what the OECD was? If they knew that the U.S. is the only member of that organization without a national health insurance plan? If they knew that all those other countries have better health outcomes? If they knew what a Social Democratic state was?
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This is a blog devoted to “better education for all.” The fact that Trump voters were poorly educated matters.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/education-not-income-predicted-who-would-vote-for-trump/
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nycpsp 1/12 2:20pm– What I related to in Ponderosa’s post is an attitude, not a reality. S/he may actually believe the “C- students” [which I take to be shorthand for people who follow instinct/ attitude of those around them] are too simple to understand the language of liberals. I don’t. I’m talking about an attitude toward people who talk like that. The immediate assumption “they” are arrogant and down-putting and live in an ivory-tower echo-chamber that insulates them from life on the ground as lived by regular folks.
You can bet your bippie that the sector I’m talking about (in upstate NY) voted Trump– people in the rural outlying areas, who back when I was a kid were riddled with John Birchers. The anti-intellectual attitude intensified due to the declining arc of economics there. There were always uneasy town-gown relations with the big Ivy League U & med-sized privcollege, a bubble of liberal ‘outsiders’ in a bastion of conservatism. But it was more ambivalence, not anger. Ed provided a stable econ base, balanced by industry & ag work. In the ‘60’s & ‘70’s industry disappeared, & in ‘80’s ag jobs (like everywhere) got downsized by big ag-industry. College/ U (which let’s face it mostly employ higher-ed folks) expanded while the rest contracted.
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OK. This is an interesting debate. Would it make a difference if the average Trump voter knew what terms like “money laundering” and “malfeasance” mean or knew what the Posse Comitatus Act was? If they understood enough genetics to doubt the scientific validity of a term like “race”? If they knew the difference in meaning between “gender” and “sex”? I think it would.
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bethree5,
You are describing something entirely different that is unique to an area somewhat dominated by a large, elite university and a smaller exclusive private college. (I can certainly guess what town you mean!) I agree with you that there is problematic town-gown relationships under those circumstances in many college towns, but I think it is a questionable excuse for why some white people support Trump. There is similar conflict (and economic hardship) in other places, but that doesn’t mean the people who hate the snobs in their town vote for right wing racist politicians. Do the largely African-American communities outside of Wash U. hate Democrats?
I am talking about something different. Where I grew up there was a small “state” university – not a flagship – that was full of the students who had grown up in that community and largely commuted from their homes. Sure not all students went to college, but it wasn’t unusual that someone who didn’t had a cousin or sibling who did go there. It wasn’t for the “elites” — it was for them. For their families, even if they didn’t use it. It wasn’t hard to enroll — more like a community college. Students could go part time.
What I found is that it doesn’t matter what your background is — a group of friends all graduated from the same high school from the same types of working class/middle class families. But there are conservative graduates who despise Trump and his ilk and conservative graduates who were drawn to it. That has always been the case but now we have been ordered to “understand” the people drawn to the most hateful rhetoric by claiming that it’s really the fault of us “liberals”.
People make their choices. They get drawn to hate and violence. We HAVE to stop acting complicit and normalizing the people who are drawn to it. We only do that with white folks. They get a special dispensation to act hatefully and violently and we are ordered to understand them and blame ourselves.
I continue to believe that is exactly why we are in this mess and their numbers are growing. We have actually internalized right wing propaganda that they are that way because of some external factor (usually the fault of liberals), and not that way because they choose it. We have actually internalized that it’s good to present scapegoats for their twisted and ugly beliefs, even though there are many people from the same experience who don’t have those beliefs.
White privilege. Can you imagine if the 1960s was dominated by the false narrative that white voters in the south supported racist candidates for good reason and here is a convenient scapegoat for why they would do that? Fortunately, at that point their beliefs were rightly called out, not normalized.
I remember Bernie Sanders getting heavily criticized when he revealed some of his own biases and said that white voters who refused to vote for candidates who were African American were not racist.
To Bernie’s credit, he didn’t try to defend his statement. He acknowledged his biases and apologized and did better. That’s exactly the right response.
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Thanks, Bob –you understood me correctly.
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AIf they knew enough archaeology and history to doubt the Exodus story? ”
Or the Noah story.
The central problem is that they study “arkeology” rather than “archeology”
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The Bible’s arkeology
The study of the ark
It isn’t like biology
The study of the shark
It isn’t like geology
The study of the earth
Instead, it’s like phrenology
The study of the girth
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LOL. It is. It’s hilarious to me that the so-called History Channel, in the 21st century, runs “documentaries” about stuff like the search for the Ark. Again, which one? The one in the far older Babylonian epics The Enuma Elish, The Atrahasis, and Gilgamesh? Same story, but the characters have different names. A myth.
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The History Channel has become the history and mythology channel.
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It has. Also weird is the Bravo Channel, which originally carried programming related to “high culture”–opera, ballet, classcial music concerts, etc., but morphed into Andy Cohen doing gossip about celebrities and reality shows about right-wing, white, upper-middle-class suburban housewives.
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From Wikipedia
“An interesting phenomenon that has arisen within twentieth-century conservative American evangelism – the widespread conviction that the ancient Ark of Noah is embedded in ice high atop Mount Ararat, waiting to be found. It is a story that has combined earnest faith with the lure of adventure, questionable evidence with startling claims. The hunt for the ark, like evangelism itself, is a complex blend of the rational and the supernatural, the modern and the premodern. While it acknowledges a debt to pure faith in a literal reading of the Scriptures and centuries of legend, the conviction that the Ark literally lies on Ararat is a recent one, backed by a largely twentieth-century canon of evidence that includes stories of shadowy eyewitnesses, tales of mysterious missing photographs, rumors of atheistic conspiracy, and pieces of questionable “ark wood” from the mountain. (…) Moreover, it skirts the domain of pop pseudoscience and the paranormal, making the attempt to find the ark the evangelical equivalent of the search for Bigfoot or the Loch Ness monster. In all these ways, it reveals much about evangelicals’ distrust of mainstream science and the motivations and modus operandi of the scientific elite.[76]: 245
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Arkeology, Apeology and Nessiology, the three pillars of Evangelical science
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It’s just RELENTLESSLY negative as far as public schools.
The Indiana state legislature has spent the past 3 weeks demanding teachers testify on CRT. It’s all they do. They’re currently embroiled in a debate over whether fascism is bad or is the jury still out on that?
One would think at some point the public would ask what any of these people contribute to any public school anywhere, but instead we just cycle from manufactured outrage to manufactured outrage and no one ever gets anything positive accomplished for public schools. This isn’t about “students”. If it was about “students” they would have some positive record of accomplishment that benefits public school students. They don’t.
When a governor or a state legislator or a candidate for those positions comes out to campaign ask them to list what they accomplished this past term that benefits public school students and if they recite the litany of ed reform criticisms of public schools, ask them again because they haven’t answered the question.
You’re permitted to insist that these people actually perform some productive work over the course of 9 months. If they want to call themselves “public education advocates” they should have to show their work.
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Well perhaps it is time for real freedom. Let us start with the Medical Profession. Doctors Nurses and front line medical workers should be free to not treat those Covid patients that show up at emergency rooms without a valid verifiable vaccine certificate. If you think that is harsh check out our abortion laws. Freedom!
Teachers should (but wont ) walk out of classrooms where students do not have valid vaccine certificates and wear masks. Freedom!
Insurers should be free to treat the unvaccinated in the same manner they do alcohol related injuries(not illnesses) . They do not have to cover them . Even smokers can be charged an increased premium.
As for CRT and the other social issues it becomes a bit trickier. I would not assume that vast numbers of teachers especially geographically are not part of the problem. As I am reminded of Red for Ed demonstrators who acknowledged support for the same Republican legislators whose policy devastated them in the first place.
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The daughter of a friend is the head of infectious diseases at a large hospital in New York. She has been working seven days a week for two years, and she is exhausted. The anti vaxxers are the people that have prolonged the outbreak. By refusing to get a vaccine or even wear a mask, they have have callously allowed Covid to spread much worse than if we had a higher rate of vaccine compliance.
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That’s exactly right.
They ARE responsible for worsening and prolonging the death and suffering from covid.
They put their own “freedom” to do as they please regardless of the repercussions above the health and well being of everyone (including themselves)
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We had an opportunity–to require masks and vaccination of all kids coming back to in-person classes–but . . .
freedumb
And the Supreme Court is all set to codify that.
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The Supreme Court of recent times has been instrumental in introducing and perpetuating the idea that the US Constitution guarantees persons (which includes corporations, according to the Supremes) the right/freedom to do whatever they damned well please, regardless of how it impacts other people or even the country as a whole.
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The Supreme Court bears a large responsibility for the current climate, which makes the claim of the “Conservative”majority to be acting in concert with the original intent of the framers very ironic.
Was the original intent of the framers to undermine and destroy democracy?
Is doing so “conservative”?
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If they keep it up, the Supremes, far more than any other institution or group, are going to lead to the end of the United States.
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Bob Shepherd
Does the right say but the SCOTUS even as they own it . Teachers in Chicago went about this all wrong. Instead of demanding the City provide safety protocols they should have demanded a vaccine mandate and masks for children. Should have mobilized the parents of those children who are vaccinated to join them in the street.
Teachers sitting home is one image. Teachers out on the street with parents another.
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Exactly. Add to that the needless death and suffering because of the selfishness of these people. Cancers and other chronic diseases not being diagnosed, diagnosed much later, or ignored because of cost and fear of Covid. Anyone who is unvaccinated without an expressed medical exemption has blood on his or her hands and it will never wash off.
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Do our schools bear any blame for failing to teach biology robustly enough? Have there been any investigations into how schools teach about vaccines –or if they do at all? I wonder how many anti-vaxxers actually understand the mechanisms at work. Has anyone attempted to find out if they do? It seems to me American schools’ denigration of content and glorification of generic thinking skills could be a factor in this debacle. Do countries with better science programs have fewer issues with anti-vaxxers?
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Ponderosa
You would have a valid point if the anti vaxxers were anti-vaccine or if they could be reasoned with by presenting facts. If they were not at the same time the anti maskers and in a huff about CRT or teaching actual History, a history that is taught less than biology. This is about neither.
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Ponderosa,
Are you blaming the schools in the 1950s through 1980s where all those middle class white anti-vaxxers never learned about vaccines?
I do agree that my science education during that era was terrible. It’s much better now.
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What’s taught in schools today is far more advanced (or “harder”) than when I was in school in the 1950s
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NYC public school parent
Science education was fine. Just look at the technology developed because of that education.
This is not about vaccines.
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Can’t speak for the 50’s but Science education on the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s was pretty good.
I have worked with a lot of very knowledgeable scientists and engineers who were educated during that period of time.
I think the problem is tgat a lot of students simply did not take thei science education seriously because they figured it didn’t matter to them.
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Joel,
Facts would penetrate more readily if the mind was prepared with a solid biology background. I bet most of them never had a class where the vaccine mechanism was explained.
Others:
Fact teaching has been on the decline ever since the rise of child-centered progressive education in the beginning of the 1900’s. Read Diane’s Left Back to see that the war on traditional education has been going on for a long time. So the fact that some of you had crappy science education in the 60’s is not surprising. There are bright spots especially for the advanced students, but the average HS graduate’s grasp of science is probably very weak. I suspect the Next Generation Science Standards are making things worse.
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41% of 12th graders scored “below basic” on the 2019 NAEP science test.
https://www.nationsreportcard.gov/highlights/science/2019/
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You mean 40% were below average?
Who decides what “basic” is?
My kid’s school teaches science that engages students. If the white middle class Trump voters got bad science education in the 1970s and 1980s, it’s a good thing that’s in the past.
Clearly those students in your school have no idea what evidence is, if they believe Trump. But plenty of students in public high schools all across the country do.
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No, NYC Parent. This is a criterion-referenced test, not a test graded on a curve. It measures absolute achievement of some level of proficiency. The student who answers x number of questions scores at a basic level. At least, that’s the theory. You are confusing this with a kind of standardized test graded on a bell curve. A different beast altogether.
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Sorry, NYC. You didn’t make the argument I thought you did. But it is important for people to understand the differences between criterion-referenced tests (which purport to measure achievement of an absolute standard by an individual), norm-referenced tests (which compare people to others), and ipsative tests (where a student’s responses are measured against his or her own prior performance). So, on a norm-referenced test, half of the students will always be below the mean and half above. On a criterion-referenced test, EVERY student could score at the basic, proficient, or advanced level. Such tests are NOT standardized in the sense of the scores being converted to standard scores for comparative purposes, though that can, of course, be done with scores on those tests.
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The Twitter Criterion
The Twitter Test depends
On limiting the word
To fewest that offend
The greatest in the world
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Bob,
Who decides what is “basic”?
Let’s give all folks 40 – 80 the same test and see if 60% of them score above basic.
Acquiring knowledge is not about memorizing facts. That’s why Trump voters can cite all kinds of “research” to support their beliefs.
It is about understanding how to evaluate and judge facts.
I think the young people today, for all the flaws in their education, understand that a lot more than the white middle class voters who support Trump.
And I never understand why anyone can cite economic background or lack of education as the reason that white people support Trump and people of other backgrounds do not.
It is perfectly rational for someone who isn’t white who is rabidly anti-abortion to support the Republicans. There is no way that a “liberal” can truthfully convince them that voting for a Republican is not a correct vote. Same with those who want prayer in public schools and religious schools funded by the state. Just like there is no way to convince someone who embraces white supremacy or deep down believes that white people are better that their vote for the Republicans isn’t in their interest. I don’t think Democrats should even try.
The only thing Democrats can do is to call out the lies of people saying they are voting for Republicans for a reason that is simply not true, and tell them what the truth is. Stop trying to understand why they believe a lie, and tell them in no uncertain terms it is a lie and what the truth is. And tell them if they want to continue to believe a lie, they are no different than the people who gave Trump money to attend Trump U. If that is “too insulting”, tough. It’s the truth.
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a well-funded effort to preserve the status quo
Not just to preserve the status quo but to replace it with a much more extreme version of absolute rule by an elite
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In a way, these folks do support the “Status quo”, with the emphasis on “status”.
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Well said, SomeDAM. Exactly.
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I almost wrote “these folks support the Twitter-status quo” but since Trump and some others are now persona non Twitta, it would not be accurate.
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Unless we are already ruled by an elite.
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We are, but the codification of the New Feudal Order is not yet complete.
The U.S. is not a democratic country.
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Th U.S. is not a democratic country, but it’s going to get a lot less democratic soon. It can happen here. It is happening here. Right now. And there’s a lot of fiddling while the last vestiges of democracy burn.
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Bob-
A 11-19-2019 research paper by Blandine Chelini-Pont, posted at HAL Open Science, describes a goal, “to conspire against what America had become.” The name, Brent Bozell, is identified as one of the sources for the animus to the secularization of the U.S. His fervor is to make the U.S. a Christian Republic- “obtain Constitutional recognition that American political order and American society are based on Christian principles.” Bozell IV was arrested in connection with Jan. 6.
The title of the paper, “Catholic Colonization of the American Right: Historical Overview.” The article author described the landscape as “unthinkable, non existent 50 years ago.”
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Brent Bozell is mentioned at the Wikipedia entry for Christendom College in Va.
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It’s been fairly calm here, for which I am hugely grateful. Covid and schools was hard enough without all this screaming.
All of the same people who are insisting schools should be running like clocks after covid spent the last 6 months inciting and promoting a CRT panic. They haven’t lifted a finger to make any positive contribution to any public school, anywhere.
Remember who pitched in when it got tough, and who made it worse. They made it worse. That’s all I need to know.
You want to call yourself a “public school student advocate”? Contribute something positive or practical or worthwhile to the schools they attend. Spending 6 months running a political campaign inside public schools as they attempt to recover from covid is not a “positive contribution”.
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So far in this pandemic the total contribution to “public schools” from these “movements” has been passing state laws banning speech, screaming about masks and vaccines, lobbying for vouchers and campaiging against labor unions.
Not one positive contribution to any public school student, anywhere.
They were following my governor around yesterday insisting he denounce CRT, although he has already denounced CRT (as all Republicans are required to do now) and they’re all working hard passing ridiculous laws “banning CRT”. That’s the “work” they perform.
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A bored rabble…
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Indiana looks set to pass Senate Bill 167, which contains the following provisions:
Teachers must post lesson plans and curricular materials in advance with sufficient time for parental review.
Parents can opt their students out of any part of the curriculum, and the teacher will have to provide alternate, parent-approved lesson plans.
Hard copies of any course materials that are not electronic must be in the school office for parental review.
The curriculum of a district will be determined by a committee composed of 60 percent parents/community members and 40 percent educators. There is no requirement that there be any teachers on the committee.
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The bill also bans teaching that the Nazis were of low moral character.
cx: Senate Bill 167
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Teachers will not be allowed to teach that Nazis were of “low moral character.” Are they supposed to teach that Hitler, Goebbels, Himmler and the rest were men of “high moral character,” who made mistakes?
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Ah, I just read the bill and it says that it is wrong to teach that members of any political affiliation are immoral. Thus, membership in the Nazi Party, for example, would not imply a defect in moral character.
Directly from the bill:
That an individual’s moral character is necessarily
14
determined by the individual’s sex, race, ethnicity, religion,
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color, national origin, or political affiliation.
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(6) That an individual, by virtue of the individual’s sex, race,
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ethnicity, religion, color, national origin, or political
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affiliation, bears responsibility for actions committed in the
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past by other members of the same sex, race, ethnicity,
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religion, color, national origin, or political affiliation.
21
(7) That any individual should feel discomfort, guilt, anguish,
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or any other form of psychological distress on account of the
23
individual’s sex, race, ethnicity, religion, color, national
24
origin, or political affiliation.
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(8) That meritocracy or trait
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So, presumably,Hitlers Naziism should not color our thinking about today’s Nazis who are all very find people., Undoubtedly.
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Yes, Hitler, Himler and the others were very fine, upstanding moral individuals who simply made a few (6 million) minor mistakes.
Let he who has not erred throw the first stone.
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History, Indiana Style
Students, today we are beginning our unit on World War II. We are going to start with the war in Europe. The Nazi Party in Germany believed that Germanic people were descended from a superior group of ancient people known as the Aryans–a master race of culture creators (as opposed to other races, which were inferior physically and intellectually and were culture users and destroyers). The Nazis taught that the Aryans were destined to rule over lesser people and that Germany had been defeated in World War I and had suffered economic hardship because of an “enemy within”–Communists and Jews. They believed that people of lesser races should be subjugated or eliminated. They invaded neighboring countries for two reasons: 1. to appropriate resources to pay off enormous debts that their leader, Adolf Hitler, incurred in order to reboot the German economy and build a war machine; and 2. to exterminate large parts of the populations in those countries to make “living room,” they called it, for the superior Germans to expand into. They built camps to carry out eradication of people they considered less than superior: people with mental and physical illness or disability, Jews, leftists, Roma, Poles, intellectuals, Jehovah’s Witnesses, and other groups. They killed millions and millions of men, women, children, and babies. They started a World War that killed 75-80 million people. They created a textbook called Blood and Soul, used in their schools, that purported to demonstrate the racial superiority of Aryans in general and of Germanic people in particular by comparing them to all other races, the “defectives.” Now, don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying that they were wrong or lacking in moral character. It would be improper to judge them.
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“history Indiana style”
Rhetorically, is Indiana State Sen. Scott Baldwin (provoked this discussion), conservative religious?
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I don’t know about his religion. The Wikipedia article on him says that he was identified in a data breach as a member of the extremist fundamentalist Christian right-wing ultranationalist group The Oath Keepers. The same article contains this infamous quotation from Baldwin:
“I’m not discrediting Nazism, fascism, Marxism, or any of those ‘isms’ out there…I have no problem with the education system providing instruction on the existence of those ‘isms.’ I believe that we’ve gone too far when we take a position on those ‘isms’… We need to be impartial… I’m not sure it’s right for us to determine how that child should think and that’s where I’m trying to provide the guardrails,”
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Baldwin’s on the Finance Council of his Catholic Church (stated at his government website). If I recall correctly, it was Lady of Grace.
Probably not strange that a news consolidating group would miss it- kind of a pattern- like the news blackout on the successes of the state Catholic Conferences in getting school choice legislation enacted?
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Linda:
Imagine that you had never heard of Christianity. A missionary comes to you and says, “Here’s the deal. There’s this all-powerful guy in the sky, and He created everything, including the first humans, Adam and Eve. These two were immortal and never had to work. Everything they needed was provided to them. But they committed a horrific sin, one so horrific that when I tell you what it was, you won’t believe how horrible it was. The guy in the sky said, “You’re gonna pay for this!” So, He condemned the two of them to death. Capital punishment. Oh, and slave labor. He told them that henceforth, they would have to work all their lives to sustain themselves. “No more freebies!” But this sin was so horrible that it wasn’t enough that Adam and Eve pay for it. All their descendants were also condemned to slave labor and death. And then, when they died, they would roast in flames, not for a day or a week or a month or a year to sixty years, but for all eternity.”
The missionary pauses before delivering the punch line: “What was the sin so terrible that it required the slave labor and capital punishment for everyone who would ever live, followed by eternal torture? Well, you won’t believe how bad this was:
They ate a fruit they weren’t supposed to. I know, right? Terrible. Just terrible.”
You would think that this missionary was totally freaking nuts. But the insanity doesn’t end there. The missionary continues: “After a while, the guy in the sky started thinking that maybe He was too harsh. But people still needed to be punished for this terrible crime. So, He decided to send His own son to die in a breathtakingly excruciating way–nailed to a cross–to pay for human sin and ruled that if people believed in this son’s sacrifice, they could then escape that eternal punishment. So, clearly, the guy in the sky was a great father. That’s why we refer to him as ‘Our Father, who art in heaven.’”
Of course, if you had never heard this stuff before, you would think it absolutely bonkers, and it would surprise and shock you that 2.382 billion people believe this nonsense. Clearly, there is nothing so crazy but what great numbers of people will say, “Hmmm. That makes sense.”
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Of course, we can thank St. Augustine for these doctrinal aspects of Christian teaching. Augustine wrote an extremely readable, engrossing autobiography called The Confessions. In this, he told about how he was, as a young man, a sex addict and frequented brothels, but he was ashamed and horrified at himself for this. His mother, whom we now honor as Santa Monica, prayed for him, hoped that he would reform. Finally, he saw the light. He decided that his addiction was due to inherited Original Sin and that every baby, even though he or she hadn’t done anything yet, inherited this and so deserved eternal punishment. A really sick, twisted fellow, that one.
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Oh- I see now why we should respect religion in the public square. Thx.
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I am not a fan of this cult, in most of its many, many forms, though I think that the revolutionary radical Yeshua of Nazareth was a pretty cool guy. He taught, for example, that people will be judged according to how they treated “the least among you, your brethren.”
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Linda:
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Bob-
Good that lunacy self-regulates (sarcasm).
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Bob
I recalled a chapter in David Hopen’s 2020 novel, The Orchard, after reading the “Vast Unseen”. A character described as the most expert scholar of the Jewish religion drew the conclusion, it doesn’t matter if God exists or not. We need him.
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Many people who have never read Nietzsche nonetheless know that he wrote that “God is dead.” What they don’t know is that Nietzsche’s madman, in The Gay Science, who says this, goes on to say to the people in the market (symbolic of people in general) that “you killed him” and then to argue that the general run of people NEED the idea of a god. The idea is the basis of George Santayana’s Reason in Religion, and a variation of it is argued in William James’s Varieties of Religious Experience. James presents an argument from Pragmatism: what matters in judging the truth or falsehood of an idea is its actual, practical consequences. These, he argues, in the case of religion, are positive, and he bases this claim about religion on a comparison of the actions, ways of life, of the holiest, most saintly leaders of a number of world religions. I emphatically disagree with James. I think that the ignorance and superstition and tribalism engendered by religion have left rivers of blood throughout history and enriched charlatans and should be called out. It’s time humans outgrew this superstitious nonsense from the infancy of our species.
My argument is different. It’s that based on comparative study of the cognitive and perceptual limitations of various species, we can be certain that we also have severe cognitive and perceptual limitations that limit our access to “reality,” and so there is, doubtless, a lot about how the universe works that we don’t have access to and don’t understand–perhaps are incapable of understanding. I believe that skepticism about claims about ultimate realities, especially claims as preposterous as those made by religions (which are simply cults grown large) is required.
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The claims about ultimate realities made by religions are so preposterous and so unwarranted by what we actually know that almost no one without severe cognitive deficits would believe them as adults if they weren’t brainwashed to believe them (and to fear stop believing them) when they are little kids and too young to recognize fairytales as such.
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And, of course, there is enormous negative social sanction against deviations from accepted tribal beliefs. Bizarrely, it almost never occurs to people to think that if they happened to be born in a particular tribe in New Guinea or into a particular 1st century BCE Roman family, they would be as fervent about their belief in the Pig Goddess or in Sol Invictus as they are in the guy in the sky they were taught to believe in as children.
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If someone asks me, “Do you believe in God, I say, ‘Which of the tens of thousands of them are you referring to?’ Bastet? Cybele? The Morrigan? Ahura Mazda? Thor? There are so many, and all so interesting.”
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“Fear is the mind killer,” Frank Herbert wrote. Exactly right.
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Bob
I read what you wrote and appreciate your recognition of the harm done by religion. It will be especially harmful if more of U.S. education is in the hands of the religious. I’m very surprised that the Christian nationalism motive for school choice has received so little attention. Marvin Olasky’s role in the Gingrich et al campaign was new to me as of today.
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The school choice crowd know that the majority of Americans oppose public subsidy of religious schools. So they can’t name their true goal out loud. Instead, they talk about freedom, civil rights, and other reassuring words.
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I’d like mainstream media to make Paul Weyrich’s legacy as well known as the PR image of Bill Gates.
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Most of my right wing friends share this author’s distrust of the economic elite. They define, on the other hand, who that is. They point to “liberals” like Bill Gates and Zukerburg, and California and New York liberal elites who are seeking to usurp the values they hold dear. These people are in favor of Queers, Quacks, and fake science (mostly evolution).
I personally feel that the values they hold dear are selected by a group of men in a closed room carefully selecting which social buttons to push. I feel these men are opposed by advocates for a disparate group of sub groups who have traditionally been shut out of society. It is not a fair fight.
If I were to make this argument to my right-wing acquaintances, I would be accused of being on the left fringe. Their attitude toward me would be close to my attitude toward Marjorie Taylor Greene and her space lasers.
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This must be quite difficult for you, Roy. I know that you love these people, your neighbors. Sorry you are experiencing this.
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Roy, you remind me of what the anti-democratic elites were saying in 1972, when Senator George McGovern ran against Nixon. The message against McGovern (a prairie populist) was that he favored “Abortion, Acid, and Amnesty.”
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MY uncle Ed (does not every boy have one?) was a Roosevelt Democrat. Born in 1908, he worked in farming and construction through the great depression and the war (he helped build Oak Ridge). Democrats could do no wrong. One afternoon in the 1972 election, we were filling silo, which put us in the pickup truck for some reason. I can hear him telling me how McGovern was “sounding like a regular old Democrat” the closer the election came.
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Unfortunately McGovern was clobbered by lies and slogans.
Republican campaigns for the past generation have been run in a narrative of “Democrats are dangerous Socialists who want to take something away from you and give it to The Other.”
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Diane: I wrote a paper back in 77 arguing that American conservatives have raised the red menace since the Trainmen riots in 1877. From Anarchist fears and the reaction to the assassination of McKinley, through A Mitchell Palmer and the first Red Scare, through the House UnAmerican Activities Committee and Martin Dies, on to Joe McCarthy as the republicans fought desperately to push back against the New Deal. This has always been the republican way.
Only today you are a communist because you do not support an agenda that is so radical that it requires teachers to prove that they are loyal. Remind you of the loyalty oath days? Does me.
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Roy, yes, I’m reminded of the ‘50’s.
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McCarthy “often used anti-Semitic slurs.” McCarthy lobbied for the commutation of the death sentences for a group of Waffen-SS soldiers convicted of war crimes (Malmedy Massacre of American POW’s).
Wesley Swift, a Ku Klux politician, enthusiastically supported McCarthy.
McCarthy attended Marquette University (Wisconsin). Wikipedia’s information about McCarthy includes a section, “Support from ….”, that is worth a read.
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Roy-
“a group of men in a closed room”- those men have money from Charles Koch who funded Paul Weyrich. Please read, Blandine Chelini-Pont’s 11-19, 2019 paper posted at HAL, Open Science.
“Catholic Colonization of the American Right: Historical Overview.”
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The referenced paper ties in McCarthy, placing him in the context of the conservatives’ change.
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You know, if we could all just unite as a country against the Jews and their space lasers
, everything would be fine.
Wouldn’t it?
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You forgot Muslims.
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Do the Muslims have space lasers? I thought they lived in caves.i n Afghanistan.
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Get your official gear here: https://dissentpins.com/collections/secret-jewish-space-laser
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So pleased that there is a Goyim Squad for the Secret Jewish Space Laser club.
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Greg
Thanks for reminding us that there’s a lot of imaginative humor on the left.
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I’ve pre-ordered my Goyim Squad t-shirt. Awaiting further orders.
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Greg, welcome aboard, mate!
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Here’s what the Fordham Institute accomplished for public school students in Ohio this year:
“Educational choice. To end on a high note, this was a big year for school choice in the Buckeye State and around the nation. Let’s count the ways that lawmakers strengthened choice in Ohio. One, they removed caps on the number of available EdChoice scholarships and raised the private school scholarship amounts. Two, they increased the supplemental funding available to high-performing public charter schools, doubled the state’s charter facility allowance, and removed the geographic restrictions on charters. Three, they provided modest tax relief to parents who either homeschool their children or enroll their children in a non-chartered private school. Four, they launched a tax-credit scholarship program to encourage individual giving that opens more nonpublic school options. And five, they created an educational savings account that helps low- and middle-income parents access afterschool and enrichment programs. All told, these remarkable steps continue to empower more Ohio parents with the quality choices their children deserve.”
So…nothing at all for public school students. Another banner year for ed reform. Nothing for public school students, but enthusiastic advancement of the privatization goals.
Public school students should have some people in government who work on their behalf- it’s only fair. It’s nuts that we’ve let this “movement” utterly dominate all of K-12 education policy , to the exclusion of any and all other voices, when they offer absolutely no benefit to students who attend public schools.
Ask them next time their politicians come around counting on your vote. Ask them for a list of what positive contribution they made to public schools in your state. They’ve been at this 20 years. They should be able to point to something.
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Fordham should be asked how the Christian nationalism goal for religious schools differs from their’s.
But, that would require citizens of states like Indiana’s to acknowledge the source of school choice legislation. (Southwestern Indiana Catholic Community Newspaper, April, 2021, “An Insider’s Look…”)
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Levine’s grave omission could be corrected if he read, “Catholic Colonization of the American Right: Historical Overview”, by Blandine Chelini-Pont, 11-19-2019, posted at HAL Open Science. Fewer people would be chasing their tails for answers if they read the paper.
The author identifies 3 events that moved the U.S. from what was “unthinkable and non existent 50 years ago” to today’s political division. (1) Economic growth which facilitated the social advancement of what had been a Democratic religious block of voters (2) the religious openness and secularization of some protestants and Catholics and their leaders (3) the “excited nationalism” provoked by the Cold War. The author describes the desired outcome from the events as a “political authoritarianism that could be shared by conservative Catholics and non-liberal protestants.”
Goals included (1) “subordinating all American legal and political order to the God of Christians” (2) ” financing faith-based Christian schools (3) “giving rise to Catholic conservative ideas through publications, websites and lobbying activities carried out by associations or specialized think tanks,” which the author sums up as, “not marginal.”
The author describes the means employed to move the U.S. from a nation (1954) without a Catholic political philosophy to the desired Christian Republic. The author ties in the American exceptionalism component. The means included (1) “formulated hostility to political liberalism” (2) “invention of political militancy against abortions and sexual liberty” and (3) creation of a narrative around the theme that Christians are endangered.
The author claims that the plans were “studied and taught at renowned Catholic universities and new radical Catholic universities.”
Ravitch Blog readers can accurately view Hillsdale College, which is cited as having transitioned to the most conservative college in the nation, by reading the faculty/administrator signees of the Ted Cruz press release (2016), “Catholic Leaders Endorse Ted Cruz”, posted at UCSB, American Presidency Project.
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I think it’s important to start visualizing what American fascism will look like. It will look nothing like the Third Reich, it will be a kinder, gentler fascism. Especially if you side with the winners.
I mused a while ago that it would not be inconceivable that the Obamas would leave the country to seek asylum. After all, it is quite conceivable that a fascist regime would lawfully revoke security and other perks and local law enforcement could decide not to enforce harassment and intimidation laws. It is also quite conceivable the federal legislative agenda will not be determined by public need or safety but instead become a prioritized list of grievances that will drive committees, hearings, and lawmaking. And most importantly of all, American fascism will elevate anecdote to public policy. As long as the anecdote fits nicely with the predetermined agenda of favoritism. See post above for pertinent examples.
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I’m not so sure, Greg. I think that the Right dramatically underestimates how backward, how behind the populace they are. I would say to them, “You think that the BLM protests were bad? Baby, you ain’t seen nothin’ yet.” They will respond to the massive civil disobedience with violence. That will escalate. Things will get really bad. That’s what my crystal ball is telling me.
Herding cats would be easy compared to ruling as they wish to rule.
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The opening to this essay details some of the distance between Republicans and the populace:
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Be careful, Pugs, what you wish for.
Pugs. n. Abbreviated version of Repugnicans
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For example, Hitler and Lenin both started movie studios and squashed competing media. While our media are controlled by an oligarchy–the oligarchs who control them are moderate to right wing, and the Right HATES the moderate ones. What is Trump’s most commonly used phrase? “The Fake News Media.” So, real, down-and-dirty violent repression will be necessary to turn everything into not-so-Brightbart and Fox.
Btw, it’s worthwhile checking out Fox right now. They are conducting an unrelenting extremist campaign against Biden. They have become MORE, not less, extremist.
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Giving their rabid audience red meat.
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yup
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There’s a reason why Lenin and Hitler both started movie studios: movies are extremely effective as propaganda. They capture the viewer’s attention and manipulate emotions toward a particular end, and they are extremely effective at doing this.
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HB 1 (2021) in Flor-uh-duh, signed into law by DeInsantis, gives local police the authority to declare, on their own, any group of more than 3 people a “riot.” Indiana is the process of passing a similar law.
The current court might squash that out of some nostalgia for the right to assembly. But the expanded Extreme Court that the Pugs will put in place should they seize all the reins of government will not have this quaint qualm. They will end Posse Comitatus.
And to Ponderosa’s point: I bet that you can count on one hand the number of U.S. high school students who know what that is or why it matters.
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Bob, I prefer DeSatan.
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Vade retro, DeSatana!
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cx: 3 or more people
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If ever there were a time for teachers to take courageous stands and teach actual history, it’s now.
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But I think that you are right, Greg, that AT FIRST, it the new Repugnican Fascist Party government won’t look like full-fledged Fascism. But that will change.
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And pretty rapidly, I suspect. “May you live in interesting times,” says the old curse.
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American Fascism would require:
The facade of capitalism unfettered. No government could sell the American public on tyranny without convincing them that they are actually living in a free market utopia
The facade of religious freedom. No government here would exist without recognition of the civil religion
The facade of fair trials. Judges and lawyers will continue to interpret the law
The facade of an opposition party. But it would be a sham
The facade of States rights. States would have the right to abridge the rights of its citizens in ways that would be very similar to the JIm Crow south.
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Every nation state that has not failed has a monopoly on certain kinds of violence. A major difference among nation states is that some have no compunctions about using extreme violence against dissent. Those almost always PURPORT to be functioning “within the law.” Stalin’s show trials were trials. But I think that the time will come before long when, with regard to violence against citizens, the facade is dropped entirely. No more little green men, though there will be “citizens’ militias” to take the worst of the heat off the thugs officially in power.
I suspect that the protests against the U.S. fascist government that emerges in 2025-26 will be met with the same sort of response one sees in China or, to take more recent examples, in the Philippines, Belarus, Myanmar, and Kazakhstan. And there will be lots of military parades and speeches and fireworks and new nationalist curricula and sloganeering and loyalty oaths. And when objections arise, these will be quickly and violently crushed. That’s exactly what much of the Republican leadership called for in reaction to BLM.
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One of the truisms about Nazism is that almost no one believed that it would be as bad as it was. They didn’t even believe it when it was happening.
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The symbols and language of American democracy will be adopted by the Fascists and put through a funhouse mirror distortion. All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others. Consider the swastika. This was an extremely ancient symbol for the sun, found in cultures worldwide in prehistoric and early historic remains. Some historians have suggested that it is so ancient that it originated, as a sun symbol, before the human dispersal around the globe. The Nazis co-opted it, and it can never again mean what it did.
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Bob: I pray that 2025 will come, and you and I will sit down to a cup of coffee while I laugh at you for being wrong about all of this. I would not bet you a cup of coffee that you will be wrong, however.
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I’m afraid of what the right wing paramilitaries will do while the official authorities turn a blind eye or even egg them on. The Left does not have many friends left among the police. You think police brutality is bad now…
The way to avoid this nightmare scenario is to do whatever it takes to win elections—but progressives don’t seem to do pragmatism. They don’t seem interested in understanding and compromising with their fellow citizens, or registering how odious and noxious they seem to others. Instead they go online and affirm each other.
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“The way to avoid this nightmare scenario is to do whatever it takes to win elections—but progressives don’t seem to do pragmatism. They don’t seem interested in understanding and compromising with their fellow citizens, or registering how odious and noxious they seem to others. Instead they go online and affirm each other.”
Ponderosa, according to your logic, I am supposed to believe that the winning formula for why Republicans win in your part of the country is this:
“Right wingers do pragmatism. Right wingers are very interested in understanding and compromising with their fellow citizens and right wingers always worry about how odious and noxious they seem to others. Right wingers never go online and affirm each other.”
But of course that is false. So why are you telling progressives to do the OPPOSITE of what Republicans do that makes them so successful?
What you should be saying is that progressives aren’t doing enough noxious and dishonest things and if they want to convince the people where you live, they better copy the tactics of the Republicans and start lying to them and trying to make them want to act violently toward Republicans so those people you want us to convince will start voting for Democrats.
Right? You want me to do “pragmatism”? What is more pragmatic than copying the ugly tactics of the Republicans? You seem to want Democrats to lose by acting the same way they always have and letting the Republicans do all the noxious and odious things that make the people you know like them so much.
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The Left does not have many friends left among the police.
Or in the rank and file of the military, which has become radicalized. Not the officers, by and large, but definitely the rank and file.
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No compromise with fascists. This is what they hope for.
Oh, don’t worry about Hitler. We’ll give him the title, but we can control him, keep him in line.
Well, how did that work out?
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“I pray that 2025 will come, and you and I will sit down to a cup of coffee while I laugh at you for being wrong about all of this.”
So do I. But I can’t imagine what would keep the scenario I’ve outlined from occurring. I think that we should be figuring out how we are going to respond when this happens. I’m deeply worried for my kids and grandkids. I’m an old fart with not a lot of time left, but for them, I am terrified.
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Given that Koch learned from his dad about Stalin’s methods…
Given Steve Bannon…
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If this movement based on lies and conspiracy theory leads to a bloody Civil War. those manipulated MAGA foot soldiers of the rich and powerful will be the ones dying and being wounded, while the rich and powerful hide on their yachts and behind the walls surrounding their mansions watching and pulling more strings to keep their army of zombies enraged and angry.
That is exactly what Trump did on January 6, when he told his MAGA mob to march on the capital and “fight like hell” or they would not have a country anymore. Trump told them he was going to go with them. Then he didn’t. He did what most if not all of those hypocrites and vampires that belong to the rich and powerful cast, he watched it all unfold on a flat screen TV. And trump would do it exactly the same again without hesitation no matter how bloody it turned out to be.
How is that different from what the other rich and powerful extremists on the right are doing?
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When Democrats don’t want to win…At the end of last year, MSNBC posted, “The gap between the Democratic rural problem and the party’s solution.” The article focused on farmers. Farmers and ranchers make up 1.3% of the U.S. population. Yes, they are in rural areas but, it’s not like they are a concentrated voting bloc. The article made no mention that rural populations are more religious. The largest university in western North Dakota is owned and run by the conservative religious. One would think that that detail might offer a clue in identifying a problem and solution to competing for trump/GOP voters.
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I don’t know if the German people “couldn’t handle the truth”, felt powerless to affect change or, if something else drove their acquiescence.
Today’s parallel, SCOTUS makes taxpayers fund conservative Christian schools and faith based services (3rd largest U.S. employer). And, SCOTUS sets precedence for the future by exempting a sector from civil rights law.
Despite overwhelming evidence about who the politically, consequential enemy is, Americans only dare to discuss the late-to-influence evangelical protestants…hmm
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It’s extremely important to the current Repugnican Fascist Party, aka, the Greying Old White Person Party, or GOP, to fund religious schools. They have totally lost the younger soon-to-be voters, and they need an explosion of religious schools to inculcate extremist ultranationalists beliefs into the young. Without these, the Party becomes the Know Nothings. It dies out when the younger generation of citizens comes of age.
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Children exploited by the right wing- that’s not surprising.
Right wing women willingly sacrificing their political rights – that’s surprising.
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I think this author missed the boat. “Why are they so angry?” He put his finger on it here: “They speak the language of the marginalized.” But immediately disparages them—not marginalized at all, just selfish, lacking any sense of what’s good for the public, etc. “the protests all seem to converge around a battle to protect the individual’s freedom.”
Ask why it is so easy to stir up outrage of the “my voice is being ignored” kind, particularly when expressed in rabid protests [over trumped-up nonsense] at school board meetings—one of the only places in America where Tom Dick or Mary can [fleetingly] command the floor. “Voter fraud” [the Big Lie”] is another example, which led to 1/6 violence by people willing to wrench the floor away from their elected representatives conducting the people’s business.
I think we’re listening way too hard to the words being inserted into angry citizens’ mouths by cynical political manipulators. The feeling is genuine, and has real sources. It’s a sense of utter lack of agency—helplessness. IMHO this is primarily about loss of upward mobility, middle-class shrinking as upper class expands. The govt response to multiple economic shocks [automation/ digitalization, rise of 3rd-world countries as global competitors] was entirely a trickle-$-to-top and $cloutiest grab biggest pieces of shrinking pie. Disguised as voter-led populism or whatever costume fools ‘em. Bottom line, voters bought a bill of goods and were cheated by their “elected” [bought] representatives.
Linda at 1/11 1:02pm explores how that interplays with racism/ theocracy over the decades. The pandemic is a maximum booster to the paradigm, adding fear while requiring middle/ lower classes to expose themselves while uppers zoom from their laptops.
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Your theory doesn’t explain why this is a WHITE phenomenon. You don’t see African Americans – who have suffered just as much if not more – being drawn to the Republican lies.
Not all white people feel this way. But the ones who do are being normalized and legitimized, when they should be marginalized.
The white anger should not be normalized. The double standard in the way the media treats white anger because their candidate lost the election and peaceful BLM protests about real lives being lost is outrageous.
Invoking “Hillary didn’t accept her loss” while ignoring that women weren’t violently destroying properly to force her into office. The double standard where even asking for proper recounts was “not accepting the election loss” and didn’t even happen, while the Trump voters got HAND recount after recount and endless court reviews and they still felt entitled to use violence to install their losing candidate.
Double standard. We bend over backward to make white anger okay even though those white people have no more reason to be angry than people of other races. Why don’t we stop the myth that we need to “understand” when whites fight violently to end democracy and turn the US into a fascist nation.
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^^Also, if that were true, those voters would hate BOTH parties equally. They would not come out to vote in such high numbers for Republicans now that Republicans specialize in white grievance.
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nycpsp– Yes of course these angry folks are pretty much 100% drawn from ranks of [mostly 40yo & up] middle/ working-class whites. This the sector who moved from working to middle class between ‘20’s and ‘50’s, with social mobility’s wind continuing to fill sails until the ‘80’s, & declining ever since (hence “we wuz robbed” attitude). A long arc, with both liberal and conservative admins; they’ll credit whomever fits their predisposed [family/ area] culture.
Blacks’/ Hispanics’ working-to-middle-class arc was more like 1960 thro ‘90’s, so later reaction to shrunken pie is to be expected. Whom do they credit for advances? Blacks obviously the liberal admins, tho the worm may turn a bit (as in ‘what have you done for me lately’ expressed by nouveau black Reps). Hispanics mostly Dem but mixed— religio-cultural conservatives may favor Reps, plus Cubans—but the trend is Dem.
Linda’s 1/11 1:02pm post includes [re: whites rising into middle class] “And, from the 1960’s to the mid 1980’s, most were happy to have Black families rise with them.” Which they did, thanks to the post-war boom that raised all boats including especially women and minorities [see Jim Tankersley’s research in “The Riches of This Land”]. What this tells us is, folks will get along when the economy provides ample opportunity for all. When the pie shrinks AND middle class loses assets in a major way to the upper class, middle class fights among themselves, becoming tribal.
Where does all this racial analysis get us? Sure those with the bad attitude are white— what do we do with that? Scold them or something? IMHO, the effort has to be toward a cross-racial middle/ working class movement, who all have everything to gain from recognizing common interests and demanding better distribution of wealth. Labor-oriented (with or without unions)—now, while labor force is tight. We need to find out who’s working toward that goal and support them. My only clue at the moment is a convo I heard on CSPAN between Heather McGhee and a writer from Jacobin (can’t even find it)… hopefully there are other brains out there working on this.
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NYC:
We do see Blacks and Hispanics increasingly drawn into the Trump camp. And we see plenty of white Trumpers who eagerly vote for Black candidates when they speak their lingo and share their values (e.g. the VA Lt. Gov.). The race lens is blinding progressives to reality.
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“eagerly vote for Black candidates when they speak their lingo and share their values (e.g. the VA Lt. Gov.).”
What VALUES are you talking about? What “lingo” are you talking about?
It is true that during the very rare times that the approved Republican candidate is an African American who has the blessing of right wing
Republicans, there is no one to to invoke racist innuendoes to scare voters, because only the Republicans are despicable enough to do that.
Let’s see how many white Republican voters in Georgia vote for Senator Warnock. You think a vote for Hershel Walker proves they aren’t racist? It’s about the values they share with Walker that Warnock doesn’t have?
Somehow those voters cite “shared values” when they vote for people who abandon their wives and carry on affairs and steal money from foundations and try to grab you know whats and are caught lying over and over again.
Ask yourself why the Republican party won’t just disavow racism. Ask yourself why the Republican Party won’t pass voting rights legislation.
Shared values? What are those values?
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bethree5 says,
“the effort has to be toward a cross-racial middle/ working class movement, who all have everything to gain from recognizing common interests and demanding better distribution of wealth. ”
bethree5, that would be nice. But ask yourself why it is so easy for the Republicans to win votes by invoking “socialism”.
Ask yourself why Ponderosa keeps saying that those candidates that Democrats are putting up don’t “share the values” of the Trump voters she knows. I agree it’s not just racism — when the Republicans can’t use racist innuendo to win elections, they just invoke that age old enemy and scare voters about “socialism”.
If those very angry people were really angry because they weren’t getting more of the pie, they would not be voting for Republicans, either.
The false narrative that someone like Bernie was going to win votes was always a myth. Much as I wish it were true. It’s fine for some unnoticed candidate to win a conservative district with a working class message, but as soon as that candidate gets noticed by the powerful right wing spin machine, it’s just another scary socialist who is going to take away your Medicare.
Just look how many of those people hate AOC with a passion. They hate working class Dems and adore Ivy League Republicans.
Why do you think Ron Johnson defeated Russ Feingold, despite a record in which the only thing he did for working class whites was to give the guys that owned the corporations in town a huge tax break? This time, he’s running as the biggest purveyor of Trump lies in the Senate.
Republicans are good at appealing to the people looking for scapegoats. Instead of wasting all this time trying to appeal to those angry white voters, it’s long past time for Democrats to get out their vote by completely marginalizing the disaffected progressives and disaffected moderates to get away with their massive lies to undermine the party. AOC knows how to talk about progressive values without undermining the Democratic party. Pete Buttigeig knows how to talk about conservative values without undermining the Democratic party. They come from very different wings of the party, but they both understand how to fight for what they believe in without undermining their party. Others like Manchin and some of the writers dienne77 loves to cite do not, and they should be marginalized.
Ever see a single Republican talking about how they have to appeal to more voters like us? Never. They get it. They know how weak that looks and their only focus is to motivate their base by making them angry and to pass laws to make it harder for people who aren’t their base to vote.
And Democrats turn off their base by listening to the people telling them to reach out to working class white voters more and play down everything good that they stand for because those voters might be turned off if they talk about the things that matter to the thoughtful people of all races and background who already support them.
It was always a recipe for losing.
Do you ever hear Stacey Abrams pandering to working class white voters and saying we just need to convince them we are on their side so they vote for us?
She knows how to win. It is being proud of what you stand for and getting out the vote.
Bob Shepherd is right. Focus on the base and call out those reprehensible people for who they are. Stop pandering to them and focus energies on getting out the votes of the people who aren’t drawn to racist appeals.
The Democrats won Georgia. Not just the presidency, but the Senate, too. The way for Warnock to win is to make sure voters know that the Republican party is so hateful and obstructionist that they need to vote for Warnock to prevent the end of the democracy. It is that important.
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Here’s why I am so worried about the midterms:
The Repugnican Party today is unrecognizable. It has morphed into an antidemocratic, fascist party.
Things look bad economically. Presidents are at the mercy of business cycles. A report out today says that inflation is likely to hit 7 percent this year. Many areas of the country are experiencing food shortages and dramatic spikes in food prices and gasoline prices due to supply chain issues and companies taking advantage of those to gouge customers. Ofc, this barely registers with wealthy white people, but poor people feel it big time. Putin is set to invade Ukraine. He has made impossible demands as a condition of not doing so, a typical fascist ploy to “justify” extreme actions in violation of international law. As an added bonus, from Putin’s POV, Biden’s inability to do anything to stop this will make Biden look weak, ineffectual. And members of Biden’s own party–Manchin and Sinema–have effectively stalled Biden’s legislative agenda. The Trumpy Supreme Court is set to undo Biden’s vaccine mandate, states and school districts are not insisting that public school students be vaccinated, and Repugnican governors are tripping over themselves to outdo even Trump in politicizing the response to Covid, so cases and hospitalizations will continue to surge, with all the attendant problems of that.
Midterm election turnout is generally far lower than in Presidential election years. Add to this the aforementioned problems that the Biden administration faces, and it looks as though the Democrats will experience a rout this year., even though there are far more Democrats than Republicans in the country. The Republicans will seize control of both houses of Congress this year and be able, by that means, to grind any Biden agenda to a complete halt. Manchin and Sinema’s 15 minutes of infamy will be past. The Pugs won’t need them to undo Biden’s agenda.
Given all this, it seems likely that the Republican candidate will win in 2024, and then the party that wanted to send the military into the streets to fire on U.S. citizens participating in BlM will seize TOTAL CONTROL of the U.S. government.
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Biden has been a pretty good president so far. He ended the war in Afghanistan while evacuating more people than anyone ever imagined possible. His has taken executive action to deal with climate change. He oversaw a hugely competent vaccine roll out, as well as a booster roll out and tried almost everything to get brainwashed people to get vaccinated, being careful to treat them with the respect that Ponderosa seems to think works with them and not to talk down to them. It didn’t work.
I could go on, but the false narrative — repeated not just by the right wing but internalized and amplified by moderates and progressives — is that Biden is a failure. Everything he touches gets worse.
His successes are mischaracterized as massive failurees and his missteps are characterized as even more massive failures.
Part of getting people out to vote is also getting people to amplify how good of a president Biden has been. He is even better than I thought. Willing to take risks and speak out. If the message that was amplified every single day in the media was that “everyone is saying” that Biden is one of the most competent presidents in history, that message would be amplified.
And voters would be more likely to come out to vote to prevent those nasty and horrible Republicans from stopping Biden’s agenda because those Republicans take their marching orders from their rich donors who only care about getting even more tax cuts and taking away the social security that middle class folks depend on.
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I think he has been an amazing President, far better than I expected, but he is dealing with intractable idiots in his own party and in the fascist party that the Republicans have become.
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I find Nancy Maclean’s Book “Democracy in Chains” very instructive. The right has been working since the infamous Powell memo in the 1970’s to tilt our system to favor the very wealthy. Over the years, the wealthy have largely succeeded. Having achieved this success, it is in their interest to create discord in society, so that change becomes impossible. Some of the largest corporations in the country are members of ALEC. These companies’ profits depend on being able to exploit legal loopholes to maximize profit, and manipulate consumers’ emotions to get them to buy their overpriced products based on “feelings” and “loyalty” to particular brands, regardless of the merits of their particular products. The modern GOP and conservatism is simply is simply a “product” that they have pulled out all the stops to market as being beneficial to its followers, and the rules of our system, including the Electoral College, gerrymandering and oversight of laws and regulations by, for the most part, unelected judges, allow them to achieve their aims with the support of only a minority. Unfortunately these interests have found that the key to the most effective marketing of their defective product is to stoke some emotions that are very counterproductive to social cohesion. However this side effect is tolerable to them, so long as they are able to bring all change to a grinding halt, thereby locking in the benefits they have worked to achieve over decades.
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ALEC was co-founded by Paul Weyrich (funded by Koch) who also co-founded the religious right. His training manual can be found at Theocracy Watch.
There are several references to Paul Weyrich in the research paper, “The Catholic Colonization of the American Right: Historical Overview” 11-19-2019, posted at HAL Open Science.
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I love MacLean’s book “Democracy in Chains.” I reviewed it for the NY Review of Books.
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Ponderosa
Americans have shown a lot of respect for the Catholic religion. Their tax dollars made the sect’s organizations, the 3rd largest U.S. employer, crowding out similar government services that can’t discriminate based on religion, sex, national origin, disability, age and race.
The conservative wing of the sect holds 6 of the 9 positions on SCOTUS, an accomplishment that earned Leonard Leo an award from a Catholic organization.
Maybe America should try door number 2 as a strategic option.
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Oh- and, respect for the two major U.S. religions has led the nation to a singular position among developed countries- Americans lost their reproductive rights.
Of course, it you insist that anti-abortion is an issue that has nothing to do with religion, never mind.
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A tiny taste of what politics will be like under Repugnican Fascist Party control come 2025:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/the-supreme-court-takes-up-a-case-brought-by-ted-cruz-that-could-legalize-bribery/ar-AASHvgV?ocid=msedgntp
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Sent this to an old prof of mine and his description of Cruz’s case is “vicious gibberish.”
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I agree. Fear of “otherness” had always been a negative, but powerful driving force for many people. It is horrible to see it stoked by a former President and his political lackeys, thereby radicalizing so many, and threatening our democracy.
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What I know of Mr. Levine is what is written above.
One of my frequently asked questions presented to my children was, “Did you Listen or Observe to Understand or Respond?”
And if Mr. Levine and I were on speaking terms, I would ask him the same question. And it is not as if I haven’t had to take a step back on more than one occasion to ask myself the same question.
I would also ask Mr. Levine if he could understand the “Relative Location of who they are?” Yes, relative location is used to place books or in Geography. But for the lack of a better-known term, I am using it to ask if he understands where the described people are:
Depth and breadth of knowledge
Experience (too many kinds of experience to list all)
Travel experience, in out of State, Country, Continents visited.
Social Experience, in out of State, Country, Global.
Religion
Political affiliation and sub-faction.
And I am stopping the list here…
In the twenty years, I served in the Army, more than eighteen were in leadership positions responsible for other adults. And if I did not learn “the relative location of who they were,” I frequently did not understand the choices they made. And to know “the relative location of who they are” requires personal interaction—not just watching videos.
And the TED talk by Daryl Davis is an example of getting to know the relative location of who someone is. And there is some inappropriate language.
Then again, it’s possible Mr. Levine cannot engage with the people he writes about for a good reason.
And if anyone knows a better word or phrase to describe, “the relative location of who someone is.” Please let me know. I appreciate any help you can provide.
The issue of scientific knowledge was brought up by commenters. If I used what I study as an example of how much Science people know, I would post more than 60-years of ACT Science scores as report card letter grades. And I only need one letter from the alphabet. The letter “F”
And the NAEP average Science scores: “F”
4th Grade 90th Percentile average Science score: “F”
8th Grade 90th Percentile average Science score: “F”
12th Grade 90th Percentile average Science score: “F”
@ NYC public school parent. ‘Who decides what is “basic”?’
The National Assessment Governing Board (NAGB) https://www.nagb.gov/
“In overseeing The Nation’s Report Card, the Governing Board identifies subjects to be tested, determines the content and achievement levels for each assessment, approves all test questions, and takes steps to improve the reporting of results. The Governing Board is responsible for communicating NAEP results to a wide range of audiences.”
https://www.nagb.gov/governing-board/overview.html
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B Kendall,
Who decides what “basic” is? It is defined, as you note by NAEP. Bt who defines basic for NAEP? Panels of citizens, some of whom are knowledgeable, some who are not. The judgement about where to draw the line between “basic,” “proficient,” “advanced” and”below basic” is completely subjective. There is no objective measure.
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PS: I served on the NAGB board, which oversees NAEP, for seven years. The scoring of NAEP was often criticized by scholars as “fundamentally flawed.”
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Diane, Thank you. However, I already knew what you shared and much more. Something I could not state the last time we discussed NAEP. Today I can express everything wrong with standardized tests in two words. But to explain the two words, I would have to break it down into twenty-seven parts, more or less.
I do appreciate your kindness.
And I appreciate all the links, Something I failed to mention previously.
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