A few days ago, I was driving across the Brooklyn Bridge heading towards Brooklyn and saw that the Manhattan-bound side of the bridge was closed by a demonstration. I couldn’t make out what the signs said, so I turned on the local all-news radio station, 1010 WINS, to learn what was happening. It turns out it was a protest against the city’s vaccine mandate for teachers. About 90% or more of the city’s school staff are vaccinated. This was a demonstration by the holdouts.
One of them was interviewed. She said it was unfair that she is locked out of museums, Broadway plays, and soon, her workplace, because she refused to be vaccinated with a new and untested drug.
As it happened, we were returning from a visit to the Metropolitan Museum of Art, where we saw a fascinating show about the Medicis. In order to enter the musum, we had to show proof that we were fully vaccinated.
I didn’t feel sorry for Ms. Anti-Vaxxer, but I realized that many doors are closed to her, and the number of closed doors will grow.
So the anti-vaxxers may talk about their “freedom,” but the reality is that their refusal to get vaccinated is limiting their freedom.
To go to a new doctor, I had to show the vaccine card that documents that I have had all my shots (Moderna). Some shops wouldnt let me in without it. Some restaurants won’t let you in without it. The number of employers requiring that their employees get vaccinated is constantly growing. Broadway plays require them, as do other performance spaces.
The world is closing its doors to the anti—vaxxers.
They say they are waiting for more evidence, as if they regularly read The Lancet and the New England Journal of Medicine. I doubt they do.
In every state, the hospitals are overflowing with the unvaccinated. The unvaccinated are 10 times more likely to get sick, to be hospitalized, and to die from COVID, compared to those who got two jabs.
I don’t understand their reasoning. I don’t understand why they demand the ”right” not to protect themselves and their children from a deadly virus. I don’t understand why they willingly accept many other vaccines but not this one. Why dont they take this pandemic seriously? Why are they not convinced by 700,000 deaths?
They are losing their freedom by refusing the vaccine. I feel sorry for them but also angry at them for perpetuating the pandemic.
Diane Ravitch's blog 
You are too kind. I feel that doctors/nurses should refuse to risk their own health by treating unvaccinated people, and hospitals should refuse to admit same patients due to their choice to remain unvaxxed and denying care for people who need help through no fault of their own. The science is clear from everything I read. The drugs are safe and very effective.
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Agree
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Same. Doctors’ oath needs to be modified. Doctors need to be doctors not heroes.
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I don’t feel sorry for them….not one little bit! They get what they deserve. I do not care what happens to these people. “Actions have consequences”, “freedoms have responsibilities” is something that a lot of people never got schooled on. Even inaction is an action and has it’s own consequences.
I’m tired of living my life with the daily/weekly changing of Covid guidelines /policies because these fools have let the virus mutate and continue to spread. I’ve played by the rules, gotten my vaxx, still wear a mask indoors or in crowds and I DESERVE a return to a new-normal kind of post Covid world without these fools making it hard for everyone to enjoy life. I’m tired of dodging the invisible boogey man of Covid.
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My comment in moderation was a lot harsher than yours . However we will not defeat this virus till worldwide vaccination rates are very high. As I said; if a right winger bites the dust, “ask me if I care”. .However 48% of Blacks in NYC are not vaccinated and that aggravates the hell out of me. A community hit harder than most in the Nation and for inexplicable reasons they have lower vaccination rates than the Trumpian suburbs of the City.
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Joel – there are somewhat legit reasons that 48% of Blacks in NYC are unvaccinated. Consider that it was Blacks who were experimented on in the Tuskeegee Experiment, given Syphilis. Would you trust a government who did such a thing. Now., that said, there are plenty of Blacks across this country that are vaccinated. Changing the vaccination rates becomes a personal thing – with LOTS of patience and lots of conversations.
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jlsteach:
What you report is true for some blacks. But consider: Blacks in the Tuskegee experiment did NOT get the medical treatment, and died of syphillis. Now those who reject the medicine that white people take, prefer to have no treatment, like the untreated blacks in the Tuskegee experiment. This is very bad logic.
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I’m tired of reading the sob stories on CNN/USA Today etc. Maybe it makes me a terrible person, but I just don’t care anymore. I’m sick to death of reading the “we were waiting for more information before we got the vaccine” garbage. They made a bad decision for their family situation and now they have to suffer the consequences. If they didn’t want a vaccine, they had/have the opportunity to socially distance and wear a mask….and they won’t do that either. People like that are not worth my time anymore and if that makes me cold and hard hearted….so be it!
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jlsteach
The other part of my comment that was put in moderation mentioned a
public service ad that could have been written by Huey Newton in the 60s and I loved it. The theme was don’t be a pawn. The right is well aware that the Black Community lags in vaccinations. Blacks may not be driving the numbers of unvaccinated but they are disproportionately affected North and South.
I am well aware of the inhumane treatment of the Tuskeegee Experiment. I am not buying it is responsible for the vaccination rates in NYC. There are other social reasons that may be responsible. A false sense of invincibility generated by dealing with other social issues may be far more responsible. If you survive economic hardships, crime and or the NYPD , addiction, lousy housing conditions ….. whats a virus.
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jlsteach
Now my response was thrown into moderation.
So if it doesn’t post the short of it is other social factors are driving the low numbers.
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Re “. . . because she refused to be vaccinated with a new and untested drug.” Untested? Name another class of drugs tested upon a majority of the world’s population. Untested my ass.
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Exactly my reaction. 405million doses administered, 188million fully vaccinated in US alone– in less than a year. And the clinical trials included several bunches of 40k-50k subjects each! That’s what you call tested . I suppose people who say “untested” must believe that CDC’s adverse reaction website page is a pack of lies.
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while I agree that it is both sad and infuriating that some people are still protesting vaccination and endangering everyone else, it is worth considering that distrust of the government exists on both left and right. Talking to a very left wing friend recently, I learned that she, a frequent traveler, will no longer get on an airplane. She distrusts the handling of investigations into the Boeing 737 planes, two of which crashed a few years ago, and were thought to have mechanical flaws. Different groups, in different places, at different times, had different reasons to distrust the government- the Tuskegee experiments on African Americans, Watergate, Vietnam, Iraq War, and more. The polio vaccine arrived before such distrust was pervasive. As did other child protective vaccines.
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Good morning Diane and everyone.
Do you trust the food you eat not to make you sick? Do you trust the bridges and roads and tunnels you use not to break? Do you trust buildings you enter not to collapse? Do you trust the aspirin and other over the counter medicine and prescription medicine not to make you sick? Do you trust the car you get into every day not to have a malfunction and cause your death? Do you trust your surgeon to try to save your life? Do you trust the government to send you your social security check or do you refuse to take that? My point is that we “trust” in things every day that could be detrimental to our health (government run and otherwise) but we still get out of bed and LIVE every day. So this whole, “I don’t trust the government” bit is really a cover for something else that is going on. Sometimes it’s not about what it’s about.
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We’ve had plenty of bridges collapse. As for buildings, you remember the high rise in Florida that collapsed just a few months ago? Fact is, infrastructure in this country is crumbling before our eyes, something both parties acknowledge, but they’re fighting each other to see who can spend the least doing anything about it (while making sure as much of it as possible goes to the very private contractors that cause the problems in the first place). The fact is, the government has given people plenty of reasons not to trust them, especially when it comes to COVID.
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“So this whole, “I don’t trust the government” bit is really a cover for something else that is going on. Sometimes it’s not about what it’s about.” –Mamie
“The fact is, the government has given people plenty of reasons not to trust them, especially when it comes to COVID.” D77
I find these two statements instructive in the ongoing discussion of the disunity of our era. Some of us feel that we cannot trust. Others feel that we must trust. Some feel that we have not had the assurance of the industrial and governmental leadership of government at a local level. Others mistrust the broader, national movements in industry and government.
Why did we trust the Polio vaccine? Why did all of us have those scars on our arms? Why did we not throw away our trust in the government that told us there was provocation on the Mexican border in 1846 when there was none. Why do so many people take Trump at his word, but feel Biden is corrupt? Why do others feel the reverse of this?
Trust is a necessary ingredient of government. It is often given, sometimes deserved. We trust the other drivers to follow traffic laws, often at the risk of our own lives. So we watch out. We trust our neighbors to leave our stuff alone. But we lock our doors.
I think this trust thing is complicated.
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Well observed, Mamie!
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Yep, those private contractors all have looked for ways to cut corners on our roads and bridges, not to mention our buildings. EVIL through and through! Heck, that’s their main purpose, to squeeze out whatever they can for themselves, isn’t it? Yeah, there are problems, but I would wager that more of them have arisen because we have not adequately funded maintenance/inspection. Maintenace ain’t sexy and probably doesn’t get the votes like,… I can’t think of much we all agree on. there will always be somebody screaming. It seems to be a perennial human failing–to react rather than be proactive.
I love your summarization of congressional infighting. I’m sure if they manage to get legislation passed, you will be in there complaining about what they didn’t do rather than what they did. What happened to you? You used to have something to contribute beyond this constant negative narrative although we can all have our bitch and moan moments.
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Well, it certainly is the case that the two parties spend most of their time fighting one another. The country is getting close to being ungoverned and ungovernable. A chasm between them, and a cataclysm for the country.
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Ever hear the phrase “Trust, but verify”?
I find there is a huge amount of hypocrisy among those who write and say things like “the government has given us all these reasons not to trust them” who then completely trust strangers on the internet and Attorney General William Barr who told them that the entire Russia investigation was a “nothing burger” and the Mueller investigation exonerated Trump. There is a lot of hypocrisy among those who say they trust Bernie Sanders except for all the times Bernie Sanders says something that discredits what is most important to them – defending Trump and attacking Democrats.
There is a lot of hypocrisy among those who “don’t trust the untested vaccine” but do trust the untested medicine some right wing stranger on the internet tells them to trust.
I have noticed that some people’s definition of “trust” is closely connected to whatever they want to believe. It isn’t about weighing different facts. It is about “verifying” their own biases or justifying their hate by finding someone who tells them they are right.
For the record, doctors get it wrong sometimes. Science gets it wrong sometimes. People who lack critical thinking believe smart people are ones who – like Donald Trump – always tell them they know the truth. They think smart people always get it right. While those with real critical thinking skills understand that the people you should believe the most are the ones who acknowledge that they make mistakes and are not always right, but they follow the evidence and are always open to new evidence.
There is so much hypocrisy by those who are determined to normalize vaccine hesitancy by the very same people who have no hesitation taking untried medications or believing the election was stolen because someone on the internet who “is never wrong” told them so.
I don’t trust Trump and the Republicans and the anti-science folks because they double down on their lies whenever they are presented with evidence to the contrary. The more evidence of their lies, the more they invent more lies and the more they try to demonize and punish those who question them.
I trust people who welcome challenges and can defend against them with reason and fact. Anti-science folks too often want to attack anyone who challenges them instead of defending their position.
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I’m witcha on this one, Roy. Trust must be earned and in this case it has
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“Why are they not convinced by 700,000 deaths? ”
Some people are feeding them statistics like
“700K means that only 0.2% that is, of the population dies of covid, which mean 2 out 1000 people, while 10% of those vaccinated get covid, so vaccines actually increase 50 fold your chances of getting sick ?”
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Or how about the lies that it’s the vaccinated who are keeping this going because they get asymptomatic FROM the vaccine and knowingly spread it to those unvaccinated (to kill them) OR that the the vaccinated are super spreaders because they contract asymptomatic covid and go out in public without wearing their masks and unknowingly spread it to the unvaccinated. This garbage is crazier than Scientology! These people are absolutely insane.
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Now I am a pretty terrible person. I feel no sympathy for a right winger who gets Covid or dies. Sorry its this lefties way of “owning the right” .
But as a recent article in the NY.Times pointed out (and I have been saying for months), the unvaccinated extend far beyond the ideological right. While 90% of those over 65 have been vaccinated, this demographic that leans right has the sense to do what is right for themselves while they repeat the nonsense from the right wing anti vaxxers on Fox and Facebook.
Out front the Black population in America is not large enough to shift the numbers on vaccination and Covid too much Nationally . But those right wing lunatics marching across the Bridge are not the problem in NYC. Although the vaccination rates in NY and in Down State NY are high. The Black population in NYC is only 48% fully vaccinated . When you go to the more White more Trumpian suburbs the rates of vaccination are much higher. A case perhaps of do as I say not as I do . 90% of Fox employees are vaccinated they all wear masks off screen in the studios. Yet their hosts push this criminal nonsense.
The other day I finally heard a Public service announcement aimed at the Black community that cheered me up. The gist of it could have been written by Huey Newton in the 60s . In not so many words ” don’t let these Ho—— make a corpse out of you” .
So if only 48% of Blacks in NYC are vaccinated, how does that play out in the South. Republican Governors are well aware of who is impacted disproportionately in their states. Even if those victims are not in a majority.
Republican Governors are also well aware that uninformed voters just see headline numbers . They do not break these numbers down to state and local levels nor analyze the whys . This goes for the virus and the economy. Anti public health Republican Governors are attempting to tank the Biden agenda and the economy.
As I said in the past the quickest way for Biden to increase vaccination rates on the right would be to thank them for dropping dead.
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not being fluent in stat is a disease that is widespread.
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Worse they never get beyond a headline to understand a number.
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No feeling sorry for those deliberately contributing to the mass death of others. Time to Get A Grip! And it seems a school district near Houston, TX did just that recently.
The Katy school district near Houston said Thursday that it had RETURNED an award-winning children’s book to its library shelves and RESCHEDULED a virtual appearance by its author after a review committee had determined the book’s “appropriateness” amid parents’ claims that it espoused critical race theory.
The book’s illustrator and writer, Jerry Craft, whose books tell stories about Black children struggling to fit into unfamiliar settings, had been set to appear virtually this month at Roosevelt Alexander Elementary School until the Katy Independent School District scrapped the event after some parents objected.
Craft’s graphic novel “New Kid” was awarded the John Newbery Medal last year. It tells the story of seventh-grader Jordan Banks and how he navigates his worlds at home and at a prestigious private school where he is one of the few minority students.
The school district said in a statement to NBC News on Thursday afternoon that its review committee had met this week and “determined the appropriateness of the book, ‘New Kid.’”
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/school-district-reinstates-book-at-center-of-parents-fury/ar-AAPx4El
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Time to Get A Grip! Amen to that.
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What a disgrace that some teachers would be anti-vaxxers, I expect better from teachers.
I got the 2 Moderna shots in May and I keep the vaccine card in a very safe and secure place. So far, I have not had to produce it to get medical service. I’ve made multiple copies of it and even stored images on my computer, assuming my computer doesn’t self destruct at any given moment. I will get the booster shot whenever it becomes available; it looks like there is more latitude with the booster shot: Moderna or Pfizer seems to be OK.
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I assume most Americans, and probably most unvaccinated Americans, have never been ordered to get a shot as an adult, let alone a shot of a new vaccine. I don’t think it requires a massive leap to imagine why some people are reticent, and when pushed, grow hostile or paranoid.
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I had to have a physical and numerous blood tests to work in a hospital in the early 80’s. It was a secretarial/monitoring job in a cardiac unit….not much contact with patients. It was found that I did not have immunity to measles. In order for me to continue my job, I was “required” to get a measles shot and I did as I was instructed. As it turns out, there was a bad batch of measles vaccine in the late 60’s that produced no immunity for those who got the shot.
The yearly flu shot is an “educated guess” by those involved with it’s manufacturing, yet many people get the shot. Some still get flu because there are many different flu strains and the science may have been “off” that year.
It’s just BS that people won’t do this yet they will gladly chug down their Oxycontin for minor back pain.
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I think there is a clear difference between taking painkillers and being mandated to take a new vaccine. And again, regardless of your own experience, I think it probably is significant that many Americans have never in their adult lives been ordered to get a shot (again, let alone of a newly developed vaccine). The psychology doesn’t seem that difficult to understand, at least not to me. Frankly I’m actually impressed at how many people have chosen to get vaccinated in 10 months.
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Have you ever read the ingredients of a Twinkie? If one can’t pronounce anything on the packaging, why would one eat it? How about all the information on the cancer causing effects of artificial sweeteners in diet soda/foods? Eating at McDonalds when a hamburger can sit out for weeks and show no signs of rot? I see these anti-vaxxers vaping and smoking cigarettes while waving their signs.
It’s BS that they won’t get the shot! It’s because they have made it political. They are oppositional/defiant. These people have cluster B personality disorders and need mental health services….which they likely wouldn’t trust either….so maybe they just need a white strappy suit and a visit to a padded room. To H__L with them! If they don’t care about the greater good, then I really don’t care what becomes of them.
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Wow, Lisa, I was one of those people who got the “bad batch!” I caught measles at age 37 (&, when you get a childhood disease as an adult, it could prove to be fatal). I was sick as a dog for WEEKS, went to a dr. twice (long story), then ended up w/my husband carrying me to the car & to the doctor’s office, which was located IN a hospital, & I was immediately hospitalized. The next day I broke out in spots: measles! It was determined that I had probably caught them from an unvaccinated (!) child while on a field trip w/my daughter’s (only 22 mos. old at the time, & I was in the midst of toilet-training) former home day care (during summers, I volunteered on their field trips, even though daughter was home w/me in the summer). So, the cautionary take, & lucky I didn’t die.
&, FLERP!, if you haven’t read “Dopesick” or the latter “Empire of Pain,” I highly recommend them. Also, Netflix (or Hulu?) has an excellent ltd. series based on the book, “Dopesick.” & HBO’S outstanding documentary, “Crime of the Century,” a powerful companion to “Empire of Pain.”
So, the taking painkillers as a + comparison to vaccines (JUST.NO!!!): mixing 🍎🍎s w/🍊🍊s. &, BTW, my daughter developed a 🖤 d clot btw. her skull & brain luckily, for all of us, this was after 3016, when the truth was coming out about Oxycontin/the evil Sacklers & Purdue Pharma: whereas before she would have easily been prescribed oxy, so severe was her pain, it was absolutely not at that point. Thank G-d for those who pursued the Sacklers/Purdue so doggedly.
Willingly vaxxed 2x w/Moderna, & eagerly awaiting my booster.
&, not, there’s NO comparison btw. vaccines and painkillers.
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Have never been ordered to get a shot? Every public school system in the country requires a list of vaccinations that kids must get.
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I said never ordered to get a shot as an adult.
I believe the only times I’ve been required to get shots is when traveling internationally. But a lot of Americans don’t travel internationally.
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You did. I stand corrected.
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To avoid a serious illness, I would gladly get a jab. And I did: three times.
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You got your booster, Diane! Awesome!!!! I did too, yesterday.
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I think the main reason people oppose vaccinations is political. Here, the left is in power and most people who oppose vaccinations and masks are on the right. In Hungary, the right is in power and most people who oppose vaccinations are on the left.
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The “left” is hardly in power. The left is who the Democrats who are in power spend their time spitting on. And there is plenty of distrust of the vaccine on the left and the right. A significant percentage of the unvaxxed are poor people of color.
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By the way it is possible to combine a Covid booster or vaccination with the flu shot doctors are advising people to get. It is possible to get them at the same time.
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@ retired teacher….my pharmacist won’t give the flu shot and Covid vaccine at the same time.
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Lisa, I got the booster and the flu shot both at the same time two days ago at my local Walgreens. I’ve had no problems.
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Can you explain the lack of such reticence concerning the Polio vaccine? Indeed the extreme popularity of Jonas Salk in the 50s (more people recognized his name than knew the name of Dwight Eisenhower) suggests a sort of love affair with this vaccine. I think vaccine reticence is a part of the zeitgeist of a nation torn apart. The fact of those who benefit from this rending is hardly deniable.
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I don’t know that the two are on all fours—the polio vaccine rollout was much slower and hit some serious snags, and I don’t think it was fully adopted until years later when another polio vaccine came out.
But I do think you’re right that there is something peculiar to today. Politics are more polarizing, institutions are less trusted, mass media is completely different—I think these are all big differences that have been developing and increasingly accelerating since the 50s.
I’m sick of the polarization.
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Flerp: You are not alone. I feel as though I started life as a centrist and have watched as Pangea drifted away from me, largely to the East. Let’s pull the continents back together. Get me some dinosaurs.
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There is polarization on one side only. I am sick of people blaming the left for not being more conciliatory with people who have spurned every attempt to be conciliatory.
There were no vaccine mandates at first because the Democrats went to great effort not to politicize the vaccine! They just wanted people to take it.
The far right politicized the vaccine. Biden tried hard to be conciliatory for a long time and waited until those who politicized the vaccine caused another hospital and ICU crisis in the states where the right wing politicizers of the anti-vax movement were most powerful.
This is not a “both sides” issue. This is one side politicizing the issue and the other side being accused of politicizing an issue because they are following science.
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NYC public school parent
Few issues are both sides issues. Certainly not the ones the corporate media will highlight . They would never want to highlight the issues that affect their bottom line.
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Joel,
But people who say they are sick of the polarization are also blaming the Democrats equally for that polarization.
The main reason we are polarized is that the one side that needs polarization and wants polarization – the far right – knows they will always have complicit “helpers” who will amplify their dishonest propaganda that “both sides” cause polarization.
In fact, if those right wing propaganda pushers in and out of the so-called liberal media weren’t helping to legitimize and amplify the false narrative, the far right would have to stop causing polarization.
If the ONLY narrative that was amplified was “why are the Republicans trying to polarize this country when the Democrats are working so hard to bring us together?”, the Republicans would stop polarizing it – especially if every Republican was forced to defend the ugly things said by the far right.
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You know the world is polarized when someone says they’re sick of polarization and the immediate response is that that’s a right-wing talking point.
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NYC public school parent
I’ll keep it short I agree.
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FLERP!,
Your anti-vaxx, anti-mask, pro-Republican “the pandemic is just a bad flu and schools must remain open” have been duly noted. Not interested in a snide discussion with COVID-deniers.
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So why are you addressing me? Go to bed.
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I recently posted this to Facebook (I know, the ubiquitous tracking system), in response to a not-so-bright acquaintance who is convinced that the Covid vaccines and wearing masks are dangerous based on “science” from a chiropractor who bills himself as a “doctor” and spreads dangerous propaganda.
Hmmm. Let’s see. Which do I believe about vaccines and their efficacy? The nation’s foremost medical scientists or that guy named Ray who was on the football team at my high school and now works at Meineke Muffler? It has been shocking to me to discover how many people, including acquaintances and relatives of mine, are incapable of rational thought about these matters. The more they say, the dumber they sound.
It’s breathtaking what American adults are capable of believing. There is nothing so stupid that millions of them won’t say of it, “Yeah, that makes sense to me.” Jewish space lasers? Soros caravans? The dangers of masks? And this is especially true with regard to health-related matters, in which people are capable of all kinds of utter fantasy about their own discomforts turned imagined illnesses, about supposed vast conspiracies among our nation’s doctors, and about the efficacy of hundreds of quack treatments–some that have lingered on since the 19th century heyday of quackery as parallel “alternative” medical “disciplines.” Fortunately, leeching is not one of these. Speaking of which, the 19th century was the golden age of the snake oil salesman with his traveling medicine show. (John D. Rockefeller’s grandfather was one of these Wild West Professor Marvels.) Well, here we are again. But now it’s horse tranquilizer and hydroxychloroquine and advice about medical matters from a guy who sells pillows. Oh, and did you hear what my hairdresser said to me about her cousin Ralphie? . . . And have you tried colloidal-astro-psycho-aroma-hypno-chiro-quantum-chakra realignment, which is so much better than medical science?
Seriously. Stop believing total b–sh-t. Get vaccinated. If you don’t, you are endangering yourself and others.
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The anti-vaxxers have made it political and have dug in and won’t go back. Forget going to museums—they don’t care about that. If these misinformed people are willing to walk away from decent jobs with benefits, pushing their children down the economic ladder, maybe even leaving them orphaned, they are beyond reason. But hey, freedom! I listened to them last night at my school board meeting last night. Human wrongheadedness no longer surprises me. Not after the last five years.
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The sound you hear? I am playing the world’s tiniest violin.
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LOL
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Tinny too!
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lol
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Impressed, as always, by the wisdom of Diane Ravitch and the posters on this blog. Thank you, all.
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As a teacher of students from other countries, I regularly have nurses enter my classroom and say things like, “Maria, you have to get vaccinated by next week or you won’t be able to return to school. I fail to see why we are so precious and privileged that we should be excluded from such mandates. I also see the anti-vaxxers dropping out of the union and supporting the right-wing anti-vaxxer conservative mayoral candidate even though he likely hates us and everything we stand for (not that that distinguishes him from the two major candidates). Texas and Florida are doing exactly what the anti-vaxxers want, and things aren’t working well for them. I very much hope the mandate is extended to eligible school-age children ASAP.
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In June 1987, Congress attempted to preempt the FCC decision and codify the Fairness Doctrine, but the legislation was vetoed by President Ronald Reagan.
June 1987 should be another day of infamy equal to December 7, 1941, and September 11, 2001.
“The fairness doctrine had two basic elements: It required broadcasters to devote some of their airtime to discussing controversial matters of public interest, and to air contrasting views regarding those matters. Stations were given wide latitude as to how to provide contrasting views: It could be done through news segments, public affairs shows, or editorials. The doctrine did not require equal time for opposing views but required that contrasting viewpoints be presented. The demise of this FCC rule has been considered by some to be a contributing factor for the rising level of party polarization in the United States.[4][5]”
Since June 1987, the religious and/or political lunatics in our nation have been busy 24/7 churning out lies, misinformation, and conspiracy theories on an assembly line. Many fortunes have been made lying to people. Rush Limbaugh arguably the king of misinformation and spreading hate was worth $600 million when he died, earning $85 million annually.
“Rush Limbaugh made a name for himself as one of the best-loved and most-hated radio celebrities, hosting the widely syndicated Rush Limbaugh Show on AM and FM radio stations from 1988 until his death. His earnings peaked at $85 million a year between salary, bonuses, profit participation and personal appearance fees, says Celebrity Net Worth.” His house in Palm Beach was worth $26 million.
Rush was loved by fools and haters and hated by rational people.
Greedy, lying, monsters like Rush have had more than 34 years to program a legion of lunatics like the anti-vaccine fools that are so stupid they do not know that there are only 5 freedoms that the U.S. Constitution protects, and refusing to get a vaccine or wear a mask are not on that list.
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Sadly, many states are NOT requiring vaccines for anyone and are opposing the possible OSHA mandates coming out. And not just the obvious Texas and Florida. Utah is planning a special legislative session the minute the OSHA regulations come out in order to stop them. Masks are not required anywhere in the state (unless it’s a private business, and who knows how long that will last), kids can come to school even after exposure unmasked as long as they show no “symptoms” (I put that in quotation marks because I have kids with symptoms all the time who we can’t send home), and one of the teachers in my school just the other day said they’d lost their sense of taste but weren’t going to get tested because their spouse had tested negative. Craziness. I no longer trust the vast majority of my faculty. I’m outside in a trailer, and I almost never come in the building because of this. It’s a lonely (but less disease-ridden) place to be.
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I think people and the media are missing one HUGE category of anti-COVID vaxxers. It’s because it doesn’t fit into the typical demographic markers of race, gender, religion, income, or political party. It crosses political lines. This is akin to the Democrats pushing punitive standardized testing and charter schools.
What is this group of anti-COVID vaxxers? Health and wellness nuts. I’m not talking about the people who take generally good care of themselves but the ones who are more hardcore. They buy nearly everything organic. They may even refuse to drink water out of a plastic bottle. They may spend hundreds of dollars each month on an array of supplements (that are NOT FDA evaluated or approved by the way), trainers or boutique/upscale gyms. They don’t use the typical mainstream Proctor & Gamble or Unilever products for hygiene or household cleaning, but things that claim to be natural. (I guess this would be more of a high income group as your average Joe is not going to spend $70-100/month on a 30-day supply of “immune boosting” superfood juice powder from Organifi or Athletic Greens.)
There’s a health influencer/podcaster I followed for about 7-8 years that i finally gave up on earlier this year because I couldn’t deal with his change in rhetoric since COVID. He says that “fear” is driving the COVID policies, but will then put out episodes claiming that your household name toothpaste may give you cancer.
These people say their good state of health is their best defense against COVID. The comorbidity data is their main talking point. I believe their stance is rooted in selfishness. Yes. They will likely survive an infection, but their refusal to follow protocols put people who won’t or could have long-term complications at risk. These are probably the same [expletive]s who haven’t been re-racking their weights at the gym all these years.
I have the best of both worlds. I am in good health and I am vaxxed.
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Although I would be certain that there are enough unvaccinated NYC Teachers for a small demonstration. I am betting there was a lot of astro turf on the bridge.
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Amazing how Houston keeps infiltrating Brooklyn!
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Nah: Smithtown Alabama( as my friends call it) located 40 miles due east of the Empire State Building supplies all the infiltrators needed. And if they fail Staten Island has plenty of recruits .
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Wow, Lisa, I was one of those people who got the “bad batch!” I caught measles at age 37 (&, when you get a childhood disease as an adult, it could prove to be fatal). I was sick as a dog for WEEKS, went to a dr. twice (long story), then ended up w/my husband carrying me to the car & to the doctor’s office, which was located IN a hospital, & I was immediately hospitalized. The next day I broke out in spots: measles! It was determined that I had probably caught them from an unvaccinated (!) child while on a field trip w/my daughter’s (only 22 mos. old at the time, & I was in the midst of toilet-training) former home day care (during summers, I volunteered on their field trips, even though daughter was home w/me in the summer). So, the cautionary take, & lucky I didn’t die.
&, FLERP!, if you haven’t read “Dopesick” or the latter “Empire of Pain,” I highly recommend them. Also, Netflix (or Hulu?) has an excellent ltd. series based on the book, “Dopesick.” & HBO’S outstanding documentary, “Crime of the Century,” a powerful companion to “Empire of Pain.”
So, the taking painkillers as a + comparison to vaccines (JUST.NO!!!): mixing 🍎🍎s w/🍊🍊s. &, BTW, my daughter developed a 🖤 d clot btw. her skull & brain luckily, for all of us, this was after 3016, when the truth was coming out about Oxycontin/the evil Sacklers & Purdue Pharma: whereas before she would have easily been prescribed oxy, so severe was her pain, it was absolutely not at that point. Thank G-d for those who pursued the Sacklers/Purdue so doggedly.
Willingly vaxxed 2x w/Moderna, & eagerly awaiting my booster.
&, not, there’s NO comparison btw. vaccines and painkillers.
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“NO comparison btw. vaccines and painkillers”
Pfizer doesn’t give the high
Like the Oxy you can buy
Vaccine shots are simply flat
Little pills are where it’s at
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“Die Free or Live”
They made their bed
And there they lie
May soon be dead
But free they’ll die
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700,000 dead…and imagine how many more but for the lockdowns, social distancing, masks, and, finally, the vaccine.
Much of this, in my view, has been about leadership. Had Trump and others like him (both in office and in the media) taken the virus and their responsibility to contain it seriously (publicly) from the start, I believe the outcome would have been very different.
As is; they allowed (and/or took part in) the spread of disinformation. People had been told not to trust “The Deep State” since Trump took office. Distrust of the worldwide medical and scientific responses to the pandemic were (and continue to be) a tragic extension of this propaganda campaign.
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Deep State Deception
We don’t need no stinking vax
Distancing or even mask
All these measures? Cruel jokes
Covid virus is a hoax
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All we need is Ivermectin
Anti-worming is protection
Parasites are everywhere
In the Democratic lair
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My niece lives in northern rural Vermont. She is one of only 2 students in her school of 120+ (K-9) who’s been vaccinated. It’s a requirement for the teachers.
Her “peers” tell her that the vaccine actually GIVES you Covid. Or that it will slowly drive you insane. Or that its’ Gate’s plan to control the world. And, of course, Big Pharma is behind the entire show and is making a killing.
I’m impressed that, at 13, she’s quietly sticking to her guns.
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“it will slowly drive you insane”
The definition of “insanity” is “getting vaccinated over and over and expecting different results each time.”
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Diane and supporters of these medical mandates—It amazes me how you’ve spent the large majority of your professional career studying how millionaires/ billionaires have exploited public education but can’t make the connection between how these same millionaires/billionaires have exploited and corrupted the medical industry/field and have tricked the public into believing that their “solutions” are what’s best for society because of course, they’re just so “benevolent”… To begin, the pharmaceutical industry has its origins in Nazi Germany where I.G. Farben (Bayer, Hoechst, etc.) competed with the Rockefellers to dominate the global drug market. In order to thrive, I.G. Farben had to receive support from Hitler… During the Nuremberg Trial the I.G. Farben executives received little punishment for their crimes (as is the case with many powerful and rice people) against humanity and instead worked alongside the Rockfellers to influence world affairs along with monopolizing the healthcare industry through use of patented drugs. We see here where a crusade began to outlaw vitamin therapies and other natural, non-patentable health approaches (these approaches by the way have little to no side effects unlike vaccines) … Here are some sources that backs up these claims: http://www.profit-over-life.org/main.html & the book entitled Rockefeller Medicine Men by Richard E. Brown…
Thus, being tied to the old vices of greed and control, the modern pharmaceutical and healthcare industry’s main focus is creating lifelong customers and dealing with symptoms, not getting patients off drugs and treating the root cause. It’s under this context that we must analyze vaccines…
The major pharmaceutical company’s and the healthcare industries corruptive and lethal practices can be found here:
https://childrenshealthdefense.org/news/the-bill-gates-effect-whos-dtp-vaccine-kills-more-children-in-africa-than-the-diseases-it-targets/
https://ethics.harvard.edu/blog/risky-drugs-why-fda-cannot-be-trusted
https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/fda-nearly-half-funding-companies-it-regulates/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2875889
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-announces-largest-health-care-fraud-settlement-its-history
https://www.pbs.org/independentlens/blog/unwanted-sterilization-and-eugenics-programs-in-the-united-states/
There’s much more I could cite but the bottom-line is these companies care more about profit than your health… So, when you mention that the refusal of so-called “anti-vaxxers” is limiting their freedom this assumption is not accurate at all… It is the coordinated effort by the pharmaceutical lobbyists along with international imperialist executives like Klaus Schwab (who published a book entitled— “COVID-19: The Great Reset”; a very interesting title) that are trying to coerce every American, everyone in the world to take an experimental vaccine that is still undergoing clinical trials denying the human right of informed consent and this is a criminal act….What are your thoughts on the fact that if people get injured or die from vaccines the manufacturers are immune from liability? You make another assumption that so called “anti-vaxxers” don’t regularly read the “prestigious” medical journals of the day. There’s actually a growing body of well-respected doctors and scientists such as ex-Pfizer scientist—Dr. Michael Yedon and cardiologist—Dr. Peter A. McCullough who are speaking out against the dangers of this mRNA vaccine…
These scientists, once lauded in professional circles, are now having their livelihoods threatened because they promote the concepts of informed consent, medical freedom and bioethics. Even the term “anti-vaxxer” is a misnomer because many so-called “anti-vaxxers (such as parents) used to diligently follow the vaccine schedule until their child got injured or died from a vaccine. When these parents sought answers they were ridiculed, shunned and humiliated… There’s so much more I could say—such as how these mRNA vaccines are vastly different from old-school vaccines, how the pharmaceutical companies produce bias efficacy outcomes, the serious conflicts of interests between government agencies (such as the FDA, EPA, CDC) and Big Pharma, how the number of deaths & injuries from this covid vaccine outweighs all other vaccines…but I’ll leave some more resources for anyone looking to do research on the real reasons why a growing body of people are refusing to take the jab. I will not get caught up in the divide and conquer strategy that the powers that be have orchestrated pitting the unvaccinated vs. the vaccinated, Dems vs. Repubs, etc… I’m better than that… What we need is to have all the facts out there on the table but unfortunately the mainstream & social media are engaging in a heavy censorship campaign…Is any of this democratic?…
Dr. Ravitch, as an educator and academic I was expecting more scholarly and thoughtful responses from you and not so many assumptions. Take care…
https://rumble.com/vnlxum-against-the-wind-with-dr.-paul-episode-020.html
https://brownstone.org/articles/the-university-of-california-has-put-me-on-leave-for-challenging-their-vaccine-mandate/
https://3speak.tv/watch?v=pandemichealth%2Fkzuyihyu
https://rumble.com/vm8glv-ethics-professor-threatened-with-dismissal-for-refusing-vaccine.html
https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/covid-vaccines-menstrual-changes-nih-awards-grants-study
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I would note in reply that those who are unvaccinated are ten times more likely to be hospitalized than the unvaccinated and ten times more likely to die than the vaccinated.
That’s good evidence for me. I was vaccinated twice with the Moderna medicine–for which I paid nothing, and received a third Moderna shot as well, at no cost.
I don’t recall which drug companies profited from the polio vaccines, but I was very glad to get it, as I was happy to get many other vaccines–for measles, diphtheria, smallpox, and chicken pox, to name a few. Unfortunately there was no mumps vaccine when I was a child, and I suffered through the mumps.
I have never regretted any of the vaccines I received, nor do I care if the developer and manufacturer of the vaccine made a profit.
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Diane Ravitch, Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine have been very effective for people who are being treated for Covid-19. Just because the idiots like Rachel Maddow, Brian Stelter, Don Lemon and Rachel Maddow, speak out against it, does not make what they say true. You accused me of violating your no conspiracy theories rule with my Alex Jones reference, which was clearly taken out-of-context, however, you get information from your own set of conspiracy theorists, e.g. Don Lemon, Brian Stelter, Rachel Maddow, so your point about no conspiracy theories is moot.
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I get my information from the CDC. Where do you get your information?
Even Trump is vaccinated. He didn’t take the horse deworming pills or the hydroxy..
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“you get information from your own set of conspiracy theorists”
My favorite conspiracy theorists are Galileo, Einstein, Darwin and Marie Curie.
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Let’s not forget Edward Jenner, Mate.
Using pox from cows! COWS!! To create immunity from those little small poxes.
If I could only get my hands on that guy…
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Yes. He invented the vaccine only to enable Gates to install chips in everybody. Reliable research shows that he was funded by the Gates foundation.
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Diane Ravitch, many people have died or suffered permanent injury from these so-called safe and effective vaccines. Look up the information.
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I’m not going to allow you to continue spouting nonsense and misinformation.
People who are unvaccinated are at least 10 times more likely to be hospitalized and at least 10 times more likely to die than those who are vaccinated.
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Diane Ravitch, in the videos I shared, every bad vaccine-related story that was told came from people in their own words or from their family members. Look it up and stop paying attention to CNN, CNBC, CBS, MSNBC and other historically non-credible networks.
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I am posting Ragnarsbhut for the last time. He is in moderation, where he will forever stay. He regularly writes comments attacking science, Fauci, and me while praising the individual testimony of unvaccinated people. I have deleted dozens of such comments. I now urge him to stay true to his beliefs. No need for him to wear a mask or get vaccinated. He doesn’t believe the lies of scientists, the media, or anyone who urges him to get vaccinated.
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Please stop sending me comments expressing your opposition to vaccines for COVID.
Please stop touting Ivermectin, the horse dewormer, as a cure for COVID.
I have deleted many, many such comments written by you.
Stop wasting my time.
Your comments will never appear on my blog.
Send them to Steve Bannon or Marjorie Taylor Greene.
They would love to have your support.
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Note from editor:
The following message has been posted in the comment section about 150 times, in various iterations. The writer is in moderation. Since he continues to write multiple times every day, I am summarizing his message here:
“I urge people never to get vaccinated or boosted. Anyone who says you should is a liar. Dr. Fauci is a liar. If you get vaccinated, you increase your chances of hospitalization and death. Be careful never to pay attention to those who claim to be scientists. They are all liars, especially the owner of this blog, even though she does not claim to be a scientist.”
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Ignore whatever I write.
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Diane Ravitch, while I agree with your general premise, it is unfair to stereotype people as anti-vaccine without at least trying to understand their reasoning for any displayed skepticism. Example: If someone wanted to get the Covid jabs but was not sure what the best option was due to conflicting information related to each of them, it would be uninformed to label said person as anti-vaccine. Maybe doubtful, however, anti-vaccine would be a stretch.
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Diane Ravitch, you had reported testing positive for Covid despite being fully vaccinated. If these so-called vaccines were as safe and effective, even protective against getting Covid, either you would not have gotten it at all or a very mild flu-type situation. Pre-Covid, I was never really anti-vaccine to the extreme, at least not as extreme as people like Alex Jones. While the MRNA technology is not exactly new, Robert W. Malone, the inventor of said technology, had found multiple problems with it. Heart inflammation was one of those problems, as he indicated in his own reporting.
Ernest Ramirez, father of Ernest Ramirez Jr, reported getting the Moderna Covid vaccine and that his son got the Pfizer Covid vaccine and suffered a fatal case of heart inflammation. Brianne Dressen, a recipient of the Astrazeneca Covid jab reported that she had such a bad reaction that it resulted in her missing out on months of activities she could have otherwise had with her children. Kellai Rodriguez, who had reported getting Covid and that it almost killed her, got the Pfizer jabs and that it caused her to experience an excruciating level of pain in her body.
Dr. Peter A. McCullough, a cardiologist, reported seeing Covid patients who suffered heart damage after the jabs. Many nurses have also testified under oath that most patients in their care are those who were fully vaccinated. So any reports that you hear about hospitals being flooded with unvaccinated patients are not entirely accurate. Some people who are Covid-positive are unvaccinated, however, there are also cases of people who got this so-called virus who were fully vaccinated.
Dr. Rashid Buttar, when he was still alive, provided reports that more people died after the Covid jabs than from Covid. News anchors, people who probably had no medical degrees, have said that such things were not true. Between a news anchor who has no medical degree and an MD who spent years in medical school who reports on these issues, I would put more stock in the opinion of and MD. If someone takes medical advice from people who have no legitimate business dispensing it, that person deserves whatever fate befalls him or her.
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I had a very mild case of COVID, thanks to the vaccine. Other people my age (84), who were unvaccinated, died. The vaccine saved lives. The CDC is loaded with medical specialists. They said that the vaccines are safe and essential. You prefer the advice of quacks.
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Diane Ravitch, I prefer to hear all sides, favorable experiences with the jabs and unfavorable experiences and then drawing my own conclusions. I read one comment where you had accused a person of spouting nonsense and misinformation on this matter without a legitimate rebuttal and basically attacked him without actually checking other sources along the way. Peter A. McCullough, a licensed cardiologist, reported cases of post-Covid vaccine injury, so I will take his word over people who say, “I was not there to see it, so it did not happen.” Dr. Rashid Buttar, Dr. Jane Ruby, Dr. Simone Gold, Dr. Robert W. Malone, the inventor of the technology that was the template for these so-called vaccines, a man who suffered heart inflammation after the jabs, Dr. Pierre Kory, Dr. Joseph Ladapo, Dr. Jane Ruby and people who report adverse experiences in their own words are those who I elect to believe. Given the fact that NIH money was used to fund the research that made this so-called pandemic possible, that makes Anthony Fauci, a man who was engaging in this research, somewhat responsible, if not entirely, for this situation.
While you went for the Moderna vaccine, I would be happy to get your thoughts on the Astrazeneca vaccine, that offered by Pfizer, the Johnson&Johnson vaccine and the Novavax vaccine.
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Diane Ravitch, to borrow an airplane metaphor, there is something called pilot error. In the context of medicine in general and vaccines in particular, the wrong vaccine or medicine for the wrong person could have life-altering, even fatal results. Personally, I am happy to be off doing my own thing and minding my own business.
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Diane Ravitch, the only information I need related to post-Covid so-called vaccine injuries is from nurses and MDs who report them in their own words. If you actually listened to people who reported in their own words what they saw, you might actually learn a lot.
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Stories by individuals are anecdotes, not science.
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I should probably not bite, but I must:
The friends who I lost during the pandemic had not gotten any of the vaccines. I miss them.
My friends who got it early and survived, before the vaccines were available, were deathly sick for months and lost their sense of taste and smell for almost a year. It’s still not the same for them. They all said they thought they were going to die.
None of the people I know who received the vaccines got anywhere close to a near death experience. Either from the vaccinations or from their encounters with the virus, when and if they contracted it (myself included).
I have friends who are both doctors and nurses at well respected hospitals. According to them; the vast majority of their Covid patients (survivors and not) had not received any vaccinations.
I’m sure you have links to articles and YouTubes that support your hypothesis, Greg. And I have similar links that will support my slant. In the end, though, personal experience is a very powerful reference. You’d have a hard time convincing me, Greg. I’ve seen too much.
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It’s like plane crashes: yeah, it’s terrible for those whose family members are in a crash, but still, air travel is the safest travel, and if a parent asks if his son should drive or fly to NYC, then we could say “flying is the safest, so your son should take a plane”. Is flying 100% safe? Well, darn near it is. (Yeah, I am still afraid of flying)
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Diane Ravitch, here are a few sources related to the death of the son of Ernest Ramirez, that being Ernest Ramirez Jr. after the Pfizer Covid vaccine: 1: https://circleofmamas.com/health-news/grieving-father-ernest-ramirez-shares-heartbreaking-story-of-his-teen-sons-death-5-days-after-pfizer-vaccine/, 2: https://www.brighteon.com/c224acee-fb2a-47ef-8cd3-b1e2e7216b20 An autopsy was done on the man’s son and it revealed an enlarged heart. Robert W. Malone, the inventor of the MRNA technology also suffered heart inflammation after getting the Moderna Covid vaccine and yet he still lives. 2 separate incidents, however, the end result is the same.
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I have had two Moderna shots, one Pfizer, three boosters. I had no ill effects. I had a mild case of COVID, following an air trip to Mexico. I probably picked it up on the flight. No one wore masks. The death statistics for COVID show without doubt that unvaccinated people are likelier to get a severe case of COVID, and die.
Yes, people who were vaccinated died of COVID. But the rate of COVID deaths among the unvaccinated was far, far higher.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-to-compare-covid-deaths-for-vaccinated-and-unvaccinated-people/?amp=true
“It is useful to instead look at incidence rates—usually expressed as the number of deaths per 100,000 people. Standardizing the denominator across all groups offers a very different picture.
“Credit: Amanda Montañez; Source: Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
“Another way to think about the protection vaccination provides is to compare the ratios of death rates among the vaccinated and unvaccinated. For the month of March, “unvaccinated people 12 years and older had 17 times the rate of COVID-associated deaths, compared to people vaccinated with a primary series and a booster dose,” says Commissioned Corps of the U.S. Public Health Service commander Heather Scobie, deputy team lead for surveillance and analytics at the CDC’s Epidemiology Task Force.* “Unvaccinated people had eight times the rate of death as compared to people who only had a primary series,” suggesting that boosters increase the level of protection.”
I will ignore all future comments on this topic.
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We can discuss all day long the individual experiences with the shots. Still, statistics shows that it’s incomparably safer to get the vaccines than not taking it.
Besides its individual benefits, vaccinating a large percentage of the population prevents the disease to overwhelm humanity.
When you say “all I need to know that a boy died of the vaccine”, then you could also say “All I need to know that a person died in a plane crash, so I am not going to fly”. Both proclamations are senseless.
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“I heard that somebody died in a car crash, so I am not going to drive”
“I heard that a brick fell on a person’s while walking and he died, so I am not going to walk on the streets anymore”
“I heard that somebody died of food poisoning, so I am not going to eat anymore”
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Well said, Maté.
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The story of antivexxers, such as Greg H. above, is a testimony to the poor math curriculum in the US and basically everywhere else in the world: the vast majority of people do not have any understanding of probability and statistics, and hence they think, individual experiences have any significance in judging the effectiveness of a vaccine. The same can be said about judging the effectiveness of drugs, observing the climate catastrophy we have been going through, and this is why people gamble and play the lottery.
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Interesting, Mate. I hadn’t thought of if that way, but it does make sense.
However; as someone who never took a course in probability and statistics (though I do understand the basic concepts… so it is in the mix), there must be another reason for my understanding and acceptance of these principles.
At first I thought it might be in the area of “critical thinking”. This was a key part of my education, both in and out of school. And the past 2+ decades has seen a big decline in this area of public education.
But I have to admit that I don’t watch Fox News or any of the far right media outlets. So someone who gets info from those sources could say that I’m ignoring varying points of view, which affects having an informed opinion.
I think a big part my reason for understanding and acceptance actually does come from personal experience. Communicating with friends and acquaintances who work in the field(s) in question. And friends of friends (who I trust).
And, in an immediate sense, through what my eyes and ears tell me. There were waaaaay less ambulance sirens, throughout the day and night, once the vaccines were rolled out. My friends and their friends weren’t dying or getting deathly ill anymore, after getting the vaccines. And my personal observations went hand in hand with the media reports I was reading, seeing, and hearing.
Besides the propaganda effect; I think a big part of the disconnect, with Covid, is something we see in many areas of our personal and political lives: the dramatic difference between what those who live in urban areas experience vs those living in smaller town and rural areas. And what the immediate needs are, of those who live in these different areas.
What I experienced in NYC during the pandemic was vastly different from what someone living on a farm in Iowa saw. Just as the poverty and crime that I see here in the city is completely alien, in terms of personal experience, to a mechanic who’s spent his life in a small town in Texas.
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Diane Ravitch, as is the case with the 9/11/2001 WTC attack, Covid was an inside job.
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Yes, Greg. All inside jobs. Of course. Did you take your meds?
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Trump did it.
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And he made a lotta money in the process. ‘Cuz, as a businessman, he’d be a fool not to.
Remember, in the debates with Hillary, when he gave that line, talking about taking advantage of the tax loopholes? Told us he’d be able to stop all those shenanigans with his in depth knowledge of how to be a large scale tax cheat.
Yep. How much did he add to our national debt? Kudos to Haley for trotting that out in the open.
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Diane Ravitch, I am pro-vaccine as you are. I just believe that people should leave each other alone in this regard.
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When there’s a lethal virus killing people, we all have to abide by public health mandates.
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Why should they? Those who don’t get vaccinated are not only bring danger to themselves but to other people as well. It’s like drunk driving: it’s not up to the driver whether she wants to control her drinking and driving, it’s a public concern. A drunk driver is a danger to the public, hence we don’t ket them do it.
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I meant to reply to the sentence “people should leave each other alone in this regard”
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Thank you, Mate, and welcome back.
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Diane Ravitch, what people refuse to tell you about hospitalized Covid cases, if Covid is actually real and not a conveniently misdiagnosed strain of the flu, is that patients who get that diagnosis are put on Remdesivir and then put on ventilators. The snake venom theory is honestly more believable than the official narrative.
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Diane Ravitch, I hear all of this talk about a so-called pandemic, however, according to the symptoms specified by the CDC website, “Covid” symptoms are akin to the common flu. The flu can still affect people who are “vaccinated,” however, according to my preferred medical experts, “Covid” can still be transmitted to other people, meaning that the so-called vaccines don’t work at all.
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Troll,
You must be right. There was no pandemic. All those millions of people died of a normal case of the flu. Don’t pay attention to the scientists who say that most deaths happened to the unvaccinated. What do they know?
You: don’t get vaccinated. Don’t listen to the so-called experts.
You in particular should do whatever you want.
Nearly 7 million people died of COVID (the flu). Over one million died of it in the US.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1093256/novel-coronavirus-2019ncov-deaths-worldwide-by-country/
You have nothing to worry about. Don’t get the jab. I did. So did my children and grandchildren.
But not you! You don’t need it.
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Seven million dead. Even with a worldwide lockdown in place. Worldwide.
How many more, had we treated it like a standard yearly flu strain? No community restraints…?
I’d say it’s ok for the anti-vaxxers to do their thing, except they can then operating as spreaders in that capacity. Which endangers others.
There are those who believe we should allow nature to run its course. Similar to war: the strong shall survive. Natural population control. I don’t think it’s as simple as that.
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Gitapik,
I gave up trying to persuade anti-vaxxers. Instead, I encourage them to do what they want, which they will do in any case. Let them be unvaccinated. It’s on them.
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Diane Ravitch, you can be angry about people refusing unwanted vaccines, however, I am worn out on these hypocrites like Bernie Sanders who say, “Health care is a human right” and yet like yourself want to infringe upon people’s freedom of choice regarding vaccine issues. To say that health care is a human right and yet trying to infringe upon that right at every turn makes the sentiment disingenuous.
What’s wrong with waiting a little bit to see the effects of this new vaccine? Nothing wrong with doing some due diligence first. The same people bashing on “anti-vaxxers” are the same people saying, “My body my choice.” People who talk about hospitals being flooded by the unvaccinated are not getting all of the facts. Many people may not have gotten the vaccines, however, I would not be surprised if people who got a death certificate that labeled a death as a “Covid” death got that without a blood screening to check for a viral infection.
For all of your snide comments about Ivermectin only being used as a horse de-worming agent, you clearly have not been getting all of the facts. If there were some medicines that were used in humans that were just as effective at treating ailments in other animals, e.g. aspirin, are you going to make a snide comment that such things are meant only for other animals?
I don’t need to explain any of my medical choices to anyone. To be frank, I am worn out on these people who say, “Health care is a human right” and yet they try to violate this so-called right at every turn. For all of these people who claim that we do not have a constitutional right to refuse vaccines, government has no right to impose vaccines upon society as a whole.
Something else that is truly laughable and disingenuous is the narrative about hospitals flooded by the unvaccinated. Considering the fact that “Covid” has not been isolated by scientists and even the CDC has listed symptoms as being similar to the flu, I think the numbers are greatly exaggerated. What about the PCR Test? How many samples of DNA were collected and cross-contaminated with other things and it was conveniently labeled as “Covid-19” with no proof of viral infection?
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Hi Troll,
Back again. Spewing the same old garbage about COVID.
You can stop leaving stupid messages here because I hope you NEVER get vaccinated. Make sure that you and your children are never vaccinated for anything. Not for measles, mumps, polio, or smallpox. Take Ivermectin and sign up for the Kentucky Derby.
Do not take any precautions against COVID. Only intelligent people should. Not you.
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And the Darwin Award goes to the Antivaxxer guy.
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Hi Spooky Mulder. In the hope that you’re coming from a place of conviction and not necessarily a troll who’s just looking to stir things up; I’d like to give you my side:
We have a summer place at the end of a Class 4 (not plowable) road in northern Vermont. It’s a 2 1/2 mile stretch leading down to a very beautiful glacier formed lake. Great fishing and wildlife.
There are very old moss covered and uncared for stone walls stretching along the side of this road. Farmers have been using the many stones they dig up when clearing fields to make these walls, for centuries.
Prior to when the Spanish Flu hit in the early 20th century, there were nine large family farms operating from the upland, many hundreds of acres away, down to the lake. The stone walls along our road served as boundary markers (and herd keepers).
Of those nine large farming families, all but two sisters survived that early 20th century pandemic. The farmland was sold to a lumber baron who allowed the forest to return to its original and now present day form.
History can serve to inform and guide our decisions. Many died during the COVID pandemic. And many many more would’ve died if not for the worldwide shutdown and fast vaccine developments. That’s not speculation. It’s fact.
Whether it’s about natural selection, religious beliefs, or the concept of large scale mind control, I understand your reluctance and resistance. We all have our slants. I just don’t agree with what you’re proposing.
By refusing to take part in this cooperative effort, people are putting the lives of others at risk. Independence does not have to come at the expense of public health and cooperation.
Regarding scientists isolating the virus:
https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL1N2LS27P/
I’m sure there are articles that will refute these findings, but similar to the climate change debate; when the overwhelmingly vast majority of brilliant minds agree on a topic that I know little about, I think it best to go with that flow.
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Gitapik,
You are very kind to respond with reason to Spooky Mulder. He is a troll who posts here again and again on two subjects: (1) why the COVID-19 vaccine is ineffective and dangerous, and (2) why Trump is the greatest ever.
I have blocked him many times, but he posts every time with a different name. Then I blocked his IP server and he returns with different IP addresses. Usually I delete his comments when he sneaks one past me. But sometimes I leave them alone, just to display his ignorance.
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Diane Ravitch, I agree with you and I am not anti-vaccine. The only known vaccine that I could not safely take due to having epilepsy is the whooping cough vaccine. Here are 2 reasons that kept it from happening: 1: The judgement of my medical care provider(s) at the time was that the risk was not worth it. 2: Due to my having whooping cough once already, I had a built-in immunity.
The same people bashing on “anti-vaxxers” are the same people saying, “My body my choice.” What I find truly laughable is that the politicians who are all for vaccine mandates exempted themselves from those mandates. Another absurdity is all of the safe and effective rhetoric from them and major pharmaceutical companies while at the same time exempting major pharmaceutical companies from legal liability/
Peter A. McCullough, a licensed cardiologist, indicated that he had seen many people who got the Covid “vaccine” who had suffered from myocarditis and also pericarditis. Don’t take my word for it. Listen to the man in his own words.
All of these “Covid” deaths that the mainstream media goes on and on about indicates that they have either never done interviews with medical professionals who may have seen different things. The “I was not there and so it did not happen” attitude from people who derisively mock people who do issue reports in their own words or share other people’s stories is short-sighted.
The reports you get are slanted and omit the real details from their reporting. I know that it may be politically incorrect for mainstream media to report on this information, however, pushing an agenda to be politically correct and also to please major pharmaceutical companies is absurd.
People don’t want the shot because they really don’t know what’s in it. Personally I feel it was produced to fast. Side-effects could occur that could be life-altering, even deadly, so I am going to pass on the possibility of playing the medical equivalent of Russian Roulette with my health in order to be a crowd pleaser.
It’s people’s right to refuse something they are not sure about. For all of the people in the “health care is a human right camp, they sure don’t seem to have any problem telling people what they can and cannot put into their bodies.
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I’m impressed that you created a new email with a new name to whine about the injustice of anyone expecting you to get vaccinated during a global pandemic. I’ve told you before and I’ll say it again: don’t get vaccinated. Take the risks. But don’t get close to other people because that’s unfair to them.
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“My body my choice.”
Not in this case, because your body infects other people, so your “choice” screws up their lives. Hence there should be choice for you in this case.
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Hence there should be no choice for you in this case.
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Diane Ravitch, the only vaccine I could not safely take due to having epilepsy as a preexisting condition is the pertussis vaccine for whooping cough. I am just as pro-vaccine as you are, however, the current vaccines for Covid were created and mass produced too early for my liking. You mentioned getting Moderna and Pfizer. While there are specifications as to what is meant for one group or another, in what order did you get yours?
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Diane Ravitch, unless someone had an immune system that went to hell in a hand basket, why not just let the innate immune system do its job as it was intended for? Saying that new so-called vaccines are safe and effective when there has been no isolation of “Covid” and the only mechanism for diagnosis was a faulty PCR Test should cause a lot of people to question the statistics of numbers of “Covid” cases. Your preferred sources who claim that unvaccinated people are flooding the hospitals are lying to you. Listen to medical care providers who indicate that most of their patients are fully vaccinated. Listen to Karen Kingston and Dr. Michael Yeadon of Pfizer.
Lisa M, Not being allowed to hold the company responsible if I have a reaction to it is all the reason I need to not take it. All of these people in hospitals are probably there for reasons other than having “Covid,” however, the politically correct media and the hospitals are very likely bought off by major pharmaceutical companies to report that their Covid so-called vaccines are safe and effective.
Mate Wierdl, Mandates are a slippery slope. It is also considered bullying and harassment to badger people about getting vaccines when they claim to have no desire to. What about these people who talk about health care being a human right?
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Troll of many names, your misinformation campaign about Covid and vaccines is not just speech. It is harmful. You can be held responsible for people taking the utter bullshit you spew about these matters that you know nothing about seriously and so harming themselves. Just a reminder.
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Troll,
I have told you again and again that you should not get vaccinated. Please do not get vaccinated. Sane people do, but there’s no reason for you to protect yourself.
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But then, Troll, please do not go out among people, catch a disease because you are unvaccinated, and then spread it.
BTW, there have been a lot of dying people in hospital beds wishing they hadn’t fallen for the anti-vaxx bullshit that you have, Troll.
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I lost some friends and colleagues who followed the anti-vax line.
Some would call it “natural selection”. Or “survival of the fittest”. But you won’t be convincing the surviving kids of that.
It’s a shame that we keep dancing these same steps on this thread. Whoever you are: can we just agree to not agree and leave it at that? You’ve already made your points clear and the thread remains available for all to see. Adding more to it makes it seem more like an ego trip than an attempt to pass on information.
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Gitapik,
The writer of this comment has posted about 20 other comments that I deleted, arguing that no one should force him to take a vaccine because vaccines are dangerous. I urge him to do what he wants, don’t take a shot, but he keeps coming back.
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It’s one thing to express an opinion. It’s an entirely different matter when it’s repeated, over and over, despite requests to end it.
Some people see their posts on a well read blog as a sign of fame and glory. Maybe that’s at play here.
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Diane Ravitch, having to sign a waiver that basically says that one cannot sue a pharmaceutical company in the event of a potential injury as a result of a medicine they created that was either prescribed in error or had only been available under Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) should merit some degree of skepticism about the safety and efficacy of their products. I agree with you on a fundamental level, however, your rhetoric would very likely alienate people who would have otherwise very likely agreed with you.
Lloyd Lofthouse, the only vaccine I could never take is the pertussis vaccine for whooping cough due to my status as an epilepsy patient. I have gone back-and-forth in terms of my thinking on this issue, however, peer pressure and harassment are things I never tolerated very well personally.
Bob Shepherd, I have never had a pathological fear of needles. I just have a hard time taking people seriously who say that health care is a human right and yet try to infringe upon freedom of individual choice regarding vaccines or medicines that are still in the experimental stage. Despite the rhetoric from politicians and public health so-called experts, I have heard nurses who indicate that most Covid-positive patients in their care are those who are fully vaccinated.
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Troll, please don’t take any vaccines ever. How many times do I have to tell you that I don’t care what you do as long as you keep your distance from others? Germbag.
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To our resident anti-vaxx troll:
There is no such thing as “medical autonomy regarding vaccines” because unvaccinated people put everyone else at risk due to their breathtaking scientific ignorance and pseduo-“knowledge” gleaned from the memeshitosphere and selective choice of poorly conducted and/or unrepresentative scientific studies that they are not qualified to evaluate and due to their susceptibility to medical quackery and hypochondriasis and placebo-effect “cures,” which makes their self-reports about vaccine effects utterly unreliable.
If you are unvaccinated and therefore catch disease x and go out into the general population, you will encounter other unvaccinated people including people who could not be vaccinated for one reason or another, such as babies, and yes, you are a danger to them. If that is not OBVIOUS, I can’t help you. And yes, everyone else is at risk too because thee is a nonzero chance that vaccinated people can catch the disease from you, AND vaccinated people can lose loved ones who caught a disease because some damned fool who thinks he is smarter than professional immunologists are decided based on some bullshit gleaned from the internet that he or she should forgo a vaccine.
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Diane Ravitch, there is no such thing as “Covid-19.” This is just a smokescreen to incite mass panic.
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The troll warns us: COVID is a lie cooked up by scientists around the world.
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Diane Ravitch, I have provided services in medical facilities and seen many things. Every case of hospitalization has either been due to health issues unrelated to this faked and nonexistent virus that was fraudulently diagnosed with a PCR Test or due to these so-called vaccines.
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Ripley,
I have repeatedly urged you NOT to get vaccines. Not for polio or measles or COVID or anything. Don’t tell anyone else what to do. It’s none of your business.
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