Mayor Bill De Blasio announced that the city would eliminate the entry test for the city’s “gifted and talented” programs, administered to four-year-olds. The children who make the cut are disproportionately white and Asian. He wants all children to have accelerated programs.
However, the Mayor has only a few months left in office, and his decision may be reversed by the new mayor, who will likely be Eric Adams, the Democratic candidate, a former police officer who has shown little interest in education, and who was funded by charter billionaires..
Instead of having a specific gifted program sorting a small number of children, all kindergarten students attending the city’s 800 elementary schools next September will receive “accelerated” instruction, city officials said Friday. Starting in third grade, all students will be screened to determine if they should continue to receive accelerated instruction in specific subjects.
“The era of judging 4-year-olds based on a single test is over,” Mayor Bill de Blasio said in a statement. “Every New York City child deserves to reach their full potential, and this new, equitable model gives them that chance.”
At least, that’s the mayor’s plan. It is an open question whether the changes will ultimately get implemented.
De Blasio has about three months left in his term and Democratic candidate Eric Adams is widely expected to replace him. Adams has offered a much different vision for the coveted gifted programs, proposing instead to keep the admissions test and add more gifted classrooms in communities across the city…
Currently, about 2,500 kindergartners a year score seats in 80 schools to the highly selective program, with many families — with and without means — spending time and money to prep their preschoolers for the exam. Many advocates and parents have blasted the test, which is administered one-on-one to children when they’re about 4, for resulting in a system that largely excludes Black and Latino students. They fill only 14% of gifted seats, but make up nearly 60% of kindergartners citywide.
Be sure to open the linked article by a teacher who has administered the test to four-year-olds.
Diane Ravitch's blog 
Four years old seems crazy young to sort and track them. They really apply for admission at FOUR? Good Lord.
I sometimes feel NYC public education is not that representative of the country- not a good or bad thing, necessarily, I’m just not sure a lot of their “exam school” issues apply outside of huge cities.
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Even though my feelings about high schools for students who want an academically accelerated experience are complicated, the question of g&t schools “exclusively” for 5 year olds who supposedly demonstrated their “giftedness” at age 4 is not at all hard.
It is silly.
The exam high schools actually prove how silly the g&t program for 4 year olds is. Most of the students went to their regular neighborhood elementary school.
I have seen a very few extraordinarily gifted students among my kid’s neighborhood elementary school classmates and many other students who were interesting and smart and went on to do very well academically.
The very few extraordinarily gifted kids are different, but they make up a very tiny percentage of the students in those g&t programs and are just as likely to be found in neighborhood public elementary schools. Most kids in those g&t elementary school programs are no different than the academically advanced kids in neighborhood elementary schools.
And the proof? Well, if you have to have your 4 year old tutored for a test to demonstrate that child is gifted, then the system is really not about identifying gifted children.
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Your last para nails it, Chiara. It’s about something, for sure, but not “identifying gifted children.”
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You haven’t a clue as to what you are talking about. I have children in a G&T program, so I know what I’m talking about. You are a White guy, so you have been socialized to talk about that which you don’t know with authority even when you shouldn’t.
I have seen your ridiculous comments about how gifted students get more attention in a mixed-ability classroom. Ha! You said that accelerated instruction is going on in mixed-ability classrooms. What are you smoking? I can’t tell you how many mothers I’ve had complain to me about the “lowest common denominator” education their child(ren) is/are receiving in GenEd. I can’t tell you how many teary-eyed mothers have said to me, “I wish we had thought about G&T.” “I wish we had signed him/her up for the test.” “I wish we had taken that G&T seat.” You haven’t a clue as to what you are talking about, so just stop already.
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“I have seen your ridiculous comments about how gifted students get more attention in a mixed-ability classroom. Ha! You said that accelerated instruction is going on in mixed-ability classrooms. What are you smoking?”
You seem to be smoking something, because I have no idea what you are talking about. You seem to be attributing remarks to me that I didn’t say. If you addressing your comment to someone else, then I apologize.
Surely you aren’t going to claim that a g&t test given to 4 year olds that – absurdly – parents actually prep their 4 year olds to take is valid. No other school system in the country believes this.
Kids who learn easily are sometimes bored in elementary school, but less so than back in my day when all students read the same things instead of students reading books at all kinds of levels.
I don’t claim to be an expert on gifted education. I have noticed that the truly gifted young kids I have seen do most of their learning outside of school. They read non-fiction adult books on subjects that interest them, not because their g&t teacher assigned it. They teach themself calculus in elementary school not because their g&t program pushed it.
“I can’t tell you how many teary-eyed mothers have said to me, “I wish we had thought about G&T.” “I wish we had signed him/her up for the test.” “I wish we had taken that G&T seat.”
So what? People feel that way about private school, too. There are “teary-eyed mothers” who wish they had taken the private school seat or charter school seat or home-schooled.
What I find weird is when the students who weren’t in g&t elementary schools end up at the same selective high schools are those who were. By rights, if the students who had the benefit of 6 years of education especially designed to amplify their gifts, they should be at least a few years ahead of the students who had 6 years of what you believe is subpar education. If they aren’t, doesn’t that mean that their gifted education didn’t help develop their gifts?
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CRAZY!
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The current system isn’t great, but “accelerated education for all” would be a nightmare. One of the main side-effects is elementary schools in sought-after catchments will become even more sought-after (as will the property in those catchments—such as Bill are Blasio’s Park Slope house). Luckily Adams probably won’t go through with it, and hopefully he comes up with a better way to do G&T than we have now.
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“de” Blasio, that is.
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“elementary schools in sought-after catchments will become even more sought-after (as will the property in those catchments—such as Bill are Blasio’s Park Slope house)”
This makes no sense at all since Bill de Blasio’s house is zoned for PS 39, which has become “even more sought-after (as is the property in that catchment)” ever since Mayor Bloomberg started his ridiculous “we can tell your kid is gifted at age 4” g&t program.
Back in 2003-2004, PS 39 was more than 81% free and reduced lunch and 21% white.
By 2006-2007, PS 39 was down to 58% free and reduced lunch.
Shortly before de Blasio took office, in 2011-12, PS 39 was 29% free and reduced lunch and 60% white.
By your logic, HAVING the g&t program must have caused PS 39 to be even more sought-after and that is why the property in that catchment is more sought-after.
Maybe you should use Manhattan schools as your reference as you likely know a lot more about them than I do. But seriously, your comment demonstrates how desperate those who support g&t programs are to try to justify their existence.
Coming up with nonsensical reasons why a nonsensical program that serves very few students will supposedly cause so much harm if it is ended.
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^^I forgot to add that in 2019-20 (the last year for which records are available), de Blasio’s catchment school is down to 13% economically disadvantaged and 78% white.
Does this mean that the g&t program’s side effect was to make de Blasio’s catchment public school a lot more sought after?
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NYCPSP – It’s so interesting to get that update in PS39, Chiara. The line between 39 & 321 catchment ran right through our block. Ours would have gone to 39, which some considered a tragedy. We liked the feel of it (back in early ‘90’s) and I think kids would have been happy there. We [reluctantly] moved because of job relocation, but thought we would have had to anyway, due to condition of zoned midsch then [during crack epidemic].
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bethree5,
Yes, the neighborhood elementary schools in District 15 have changed a lot in the last decades throughout the district. And so have the middle schools. There are also many appealing middle schools and (thanks to a many years long effort by a small group of parents) admissions is now entirely by lottery to all of them, which angered some parents but many others have been open to and it seems to be working. (probably not for everyone, but nothing ever does).
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“Nonsensical” was a term first introduced by a G&T parent to describe people like you and your fallacious, emotional “arguments” against G&T. Now you co-opt it to use against us?
Remember I would never show up to a meeting to advocate against services for IEPs, like your child. I expect the same respect in return.
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Accelerated education for all does indeed sound like no child left behind, but it could be a way to sell the deconstruction of segregationist accelerated education for some. If everyone is a winner, we are all equal.
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Had a college tour yesterday with my son…..at a state school. The students doing the tours were friendly and helpful and the info session was great. The push to “be/do better” and “do more” was the vibe. One of the tour leaders directed our attention to the new and quite large mental health building (I thought it was a dorm!). My son son whispered in my ear and asked why a college would need to have such a large area dedicated for mental health. We have pushed and tested students and placed them in competition with one another for so many years that by the time they get to college and away from their helicopter/snowplow parents, they can’t handle the pressure and need serious mental health help. Testing children, especially small children is child abuse and it needs to stop.
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WOW, this says so much: ” We have pushed and tested students and placed them in competition with one another for so many years that by the time they get to college and away from their helicopter/snowplow parents, they can’t handle the pressure and need serious mental health help.”
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Amen.
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When we eliminated the G&T program, it was decided that extremely bright students could be assigned special projects in the regular classroom instead of getting pulled out for enrichment. G&T education was a political nightmare as middle class parents campaigned to get their children into the program, although the main selection criterion was a standardized test.
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Wow. Please look into the research on gifted and talented. I don’t like the name of it (of course, I agree that ALL students are gifted and talented), but these students can be very underserved and at risk in regular classes. They can be quite intelligent/creative yet lacking in other areas and really struggling. The program helped save my child, who did not fit in anywhere else, and whose great difficulties and depression began when the program ended.
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I agree – lots of different kiddos would be better served if they were grouped by interest – learning style etc – and learning in a smaller group with a highly trained adult who understands their learning needs.
Lower class sizes and more money for highly trained staff who work directly with students to support learning could support this.
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Drum roll,
The din of propaganda remains effective.
Until cultivating individuals with “true vision”
becomes the main focal point, the bamboozle will
continue.
We may spotlight all the cretins ’till the cows
come home to roost, or close the barn doors after
the cat is out of the bag.
Until the masses can hear above the din of
concocted notoriety, nothing will change…
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When parents demanded a G and T program during a PTA meeting, my superintendent asked, “If you have a child with no gifts or talents, would you please raise your hand?” Our district had a gifted teacher in each school who pushed into classrooms on a rotating basis and worked with all children but for elitist parents that was not enough. His question shut them up though. I agree. Get rid of it. Proud of my NYC daughters who never had their kids apply, but went local public.
I see the kids waiting for the “gifted bus” on 2nd Ave in the am. None are Latino or Black. All parents are well dressed. Mayor is right.
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We had the same rotating G&T teacher model for 4th and 5th graders in my district. We never got our Black, brown or ELLs in the program, and the board felt it was more of a token than a program so it was cut.
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I am very disappointed by your response.
My children thrived in an NYC G&T program. Our decision to enroll our children in a G&T program was not only based on our children’s needs, but also me and my husband’s experiences as students. Therefore, these decisions are highly personal. I do not appreciate having my decisions and experiences dismissed.
Your daughters are not better people than G&T parents, because they sent their children to their zoned school. Assuming that parents who want G&T are elitist is a thoughtless comment. You do not know what the parents’ motivations are, so don’t guess. Could you maybe consider that you don’t see Latinos and Blacks waiting for the “gifted bus” on 2nd Avenue, because they may live in a different neighborhood and thereby take a different mode of transportation/route to school?
As a parent who has been involved in G&T diversity initiatives, I wish you would bother to investigate the DOE’s lack of interest in increasing Black and Hispanic enrollment in G&T programs, as much as you actively investigate charter schools. I’ve seen it firsthand and it was downright depressing.
I am frankly shocked and highly disappointed by your prejudiced response. I’ve considered myself an ally, but going forward I’ll have to reconsider.
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They do track in “ordinary” public schools though- at least they do here. It’s not as extreme as it was- at one point years ago we had an A Team and B Team, not kidding- and A Teamers and B Teamers literally never had a class together after freshman year. They were definitely pushing A Team to college and pushing B Team to skills/job training. It wasn’t a rigid formal policy, but it was a rigid “informal” policy where very few kids ventured out of the “side” they were placed in. OTOH we have a regional vo-tech school that is really popular and is not considered “lesser” so they got that part right.
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More super duper “results” from lockstep following the ed reform echo chamber:
“Scores released today from
NAEP_NCES
‘s 2020 assessment of long-term trends show unprecedented declines for 13-year-olds — and that was before the pandemic”
Can we possibly ask someone (anyone) else about public education, or are we just going to follow these people forever?
Isn’t 20 solid years of public education policy written by the same 150 people and 30 ed reform orgs long enough? It’s basically risk free for public school students to break from this “movement”. Ed reformers don’t do anything for them anyway. They lose nothing and they might gain.
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It’s time we finally got serious about education in this country and started giving standardized bubble tests to fetuses. How to get those number 2 pencils to them? Perhaps a Gates Foundation grant is needed to figure that out.
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I don’t think fetuses do no 2 yet
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lol
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I remember when Bill Gates actually suggested using fetal data in education. He wanted to take measurements of the amniotic fluid, and use the data to map out people’s futures. I kid you not.
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No. Do not want to believe this. Gross.
He and Elizabeth Holmes can battle it out to develop this technology.
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Here’s some more:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/new-york-city-phase-out-gifted-talented-public-school-programs-n1281134
The story notes that as part of this plan, “[t]he city will also train all kindergarten teachers to provide accelerated learning in areas ranging from robotics and computer coding to community organizing.”
Yes, accelerated learning for elementary students about “community organizing.” Lol.
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OMG. That’s hilarious, Flerp!
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Bob,
That’s a misleading quote from NBC News – that isn’t what de Blasio’s new proposal is going to do.
The Chalkbeat NY article Diane linked to in her post described it better:
“Third graders who have been screened for accelerated instruction in certain subjects would remain in general education classes, but might be pulled out for small group work or given additional assignments tackling real-world problems using robotics, coding, or community organizing.”
Aside from semantics, that doesn’t seem absurd to me.
Here is what is absurd to me — what a parent of one of those so-called gifted programs who wants to keep her kids in it says!
“I don’t see how it will work to have an accelerated program for all kindergarten students. Some children know how to read entering kindergarten. Some know how to do their math. Some don’t,” said Lila Benayoun, a Manhattan mom of four. Three of her children (kindergarten, first and third grade) attend NEST+m on the Lower East Side, her other first grader is in a gifted program housed at Chelsea’s P.S. 33.
Even within the gifted program, she sees disparities in the level of performance expected. At NEST+m, which required a top score on the test for admittance, her first grade son has more tests and higher expectations set by the school than in his twin sister’s gifted class. She’s not getting grades and only has weekly spelling tests, her mom said.”
More tests for kids in their first month of 1st grade! That’s how parents of so-called “gifted” kids know their gifted child’s gifts are being properly attended to! How dare someone suggest they use robotics to tackle a real world problem when they should be taking a lot more tests in first grade so they can have their giftedness properly attended to!
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Children are on differing developmental schedules. Anyone who doesn’t understand this should not be anywhere near an elementary school.
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yep
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To be fair, I should not assume that the quote from a parent used in the Chalkbeat NY article is an accurate representation of her views. I know the media can use a quote that implies something that was not intended. When it comes to charter schools and g&t programs and any other types of schools, I respect that parents are choosing programs that work well for their kids and I am sure that those programs are working very well for their kids. When I think about this issue, it is about the overall policy, since clearly some kids thrive in the current g&t program.
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You make an interesting point. Whenever I have read a news story about events I was close to or familiar with, there were errors (generally). So, they must indeed be taken with a grain of salt. People who have a high public profile (our own beloved Diane Ravitch for example) always have stories to tell about this.
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“When it comes to charter schools and g&t programs and any other types of schools, I respect that parents are choosing programs that work well for their kids and I am sure that those programs are working very well for their kids. When I think about this issue, it is about the overall policy, since clearly some kids thrive in the current g&t program.”
Wow! That’s a shocking bit of empathy for you. 😉
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I meant to say “from” you. That’s how shocked I am. 😉
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Not sure what happened to my comment there, but I meant to say empathy “from” you.
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Beth,
You are making all kinds of incorrect assumptions about me and my kid, like when you posted above: “I would never show up to a meeting to advocate against services for IEPs, like your child.”
Instead of defending the g&t program, your comments are simply more evidence of what is wrong with it and why testing 4 year olds for “giftedness” is wrong.
Do you know parents who prepped their 4 year old?
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Top 10 Egregious Things Parents Say to Teachers
What? You gave my child a D? I worked very hard on that paper!
Look. My child has a 504 Plan. So, she should be exempted from all classwork and be given all the answers for tests, or at least be able to bring the tests home so I can do them for her.
Look. I’m right. You’re wrong. Duh. I make 10 times what you do.
The problem is, you just don’t recognize my child’s genius. After all, she is white and upper middle class. We drive a Range Rover, for crying out loud.
OK. There is a day left in the marking period. Can he submit all 87 missing assignments tomorrow?
Macbeth! Witches? Where do you get off teaching demonology to students!
I’ve had it. I’m calling your principal. And the district office. And the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court.
What’s the deal? My child submitted her research paper an hour ago, and the grade is still not posted.
Sorry. He can’t wear a mask. It’s in the Bible. Breathing CO2 causes children to start questioning their gender identity.
CRT! CRT! CRT!
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Hahahahaha! Sounds like you’ve heard them all, Bob.
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A parent actually did call my Assistant Principal to report that “Mr. Shepherd is teaching demonology to his students” after I had them read the opening scene, with the witches, from Macbeth.
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Oh, man. Thank God I’m in Brooklyn….
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Brooklyn. Civilization.
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Oops. I forget, “The Mayor is a personal friend of mine.”
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cx: forgot
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Testing at any level is intellectually bankrupt. It is fairly demonstrated that asking questions as a way to plumb the depths of a child’s understanding is fraught with problems and consequences. All the techniques for making this a process that is “objective” have not solved this problem. There will always be problems.
There may be a basis for deciding, after some period of instruction, that some students need special attention, either because they cannot learn at the same pace or because they absorb material much more quickly or understand it much more deeply. Teachers should be able to recommend students to programs that will help them if the teachers judge this to be a good thing to do.
But testing 4-year-old children to determine eligibility for a program is absurd.
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But testing 4-year-old children to determine eligibility for a program is absurd.
Absolutely
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Agreed. They should be testing for that much much earlier.
Probsbly before the sixth week of pregnancy to let pregnant women seeking an abortion in Texas know they will be aborting the next Einstein.
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St. Louis K-12 ed twitter lately has been battling about whether to abolish the “all gifted magnet” schools. A number of the magnet schools have partial gifted programs. The all gifted schools have a significant fraction of white parents that won’t even consider a neighborhood school or a magnet school that isn’t 100% gifted. Most of the neighborhood schools are predominantly African American. The neighborhood schools often have no PTO budget; the all gifted schools have very serious fundraising and significant budgets.
St Louis also has a rather large number of charter schools. One charter chain in St Louis, the Gateway Science Academy campuses [part of the Gulen Concept charter school chain] is predominantly white.
I’m guessing that a lot of cities in addition to New York and St. Louis are having similar discussions about their gifted only schools.
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“My child is gifted–with white privilege.”
What are Batman’s superpowers? Well, he’s rich, white, and male.
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Gifted and Talented Interview
What’s your gift?
My foreskin’s white
What’s your talent?
*Always right**
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Always right
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It would be a good thing if this country really started a conversation – a non-emotional dialogue – about public education and addressing the needs of any large group of students where half are above average and half are below. Or maybe just acknowledge that there isn’t some perfect way.
Back in the “good old days” of the 60s and 70s, I never heard of being “gifted”. But even in first grade, kids knew what the “slow” reading group was without that group ever being named. By mid elementary school, my working class/middle class public school system’s classes were tracked (although there was some experimentation with the equivalent of the computer based “School of One” called CPL cards, where students worked through their math and ELA classes entirely independently at their own speed.) I don’t recall when I realized that some kids in my grade were reading one Scott Foresman’s “Vistas”, “Ventures”, “Wide Horizons” reader and other kids were reading a different one. But students were tracked whether they or their parents knew it or not.
And that continued through high school. Less accelerated 10th grade math students were in a math class where half the students were more accelerated 9th graders. Was that better than them being in less accelerated math classes exclusively with students in their own grade? I have no idea. Should high school math classes just mix students in the same grade into random math classes and expect the teacher to teach them the subject? I have no idea. The only thing I know is that this is a complicated question and every “solution” has downsides.
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I’ve seen far too many high-school kids struggling, really, really struggling, in mandatory math classes for which they were totally unprepared. Years behind. It’s obscene to do that to them.
One student typifies this for me. She was not academically oriented. But she was hilarious and witty and charming and took her cheerleading squad to win the state championship, and she was universally loved by the other kids. A kid of great, great gifts, but not of the kinds that school wanted or cared about. And that was obscene, just freaking wrong, what mandatory classes she couldn’t handle did to her. Crushed her like a bug. Really burns me up when I think of this. So, so, so wrong. Curses on Gates and his spawn throughout K-12.
Kids differ.
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Bob,
Thanks for that important reminder.
I dislike Gates and his spawn as you do, but I think the story of your non-academically student is more timeless. Those students often got lost, long before Gates. However, it’s interesting you mention the cheerleading – the extracurricular activity. The importance of those extracurricular activities that too often get cut these days is immeasurable. In my high school, it was a successful marching band, where hundreds of students from all backgrounds and with entirely different academic abilities and struggles came together. No one came out a “better” student because of being in the marching band (or acting or making scenery for the school play or playing a sport or being a cheerleader). But I suspect that years later those students were positively impacted when they participated in those activities (at least when those activities are led by adults who make it about the students, not themselves).
Part of the problem to me is the shocking “professionalization” of those kind of high school activities. It used to be that a 9th grade kid could come in knowing nothing and the whole reason to get involved in that extracurricular activity was to learn to do it — with the kids who showed an affinity and desire for it getting a chance to do more. Once in a while I come across a high school band or orchestra director today who absolutely welcomes beginners who have no idea how to even read a note of music, let alone play any instrument and I am in awe of their dedication.
And of course most of the reason is budget cuts. But even in the 1960s and 70s, I suspect schools in poverty stricken areas didn’t have much access to those activities.
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Hisch life for me revolved around the music wing– & I was no star, it was just the air I breathed & what got me up mornings. But your conversation got me thinking about stellar moments. One was getting a special Latin award. I was shocked to be called to the stage. It turned out to be the result of acing a particular test we had to take. We were never told it was competitive or connected to some award. All tests should be like that!
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This kid was a natural-born leader. Other kids–especially other girls–gravitated to and truly loved her. She clearly had gifts, but they weren’t the ones school wanted. But kids (and grownups) differ. The bring different stuff to the ballgame. But a complex game like a modern economy needs that range of abilities and predispositions. It doesn’t need one-size-for-all standardized testing and curricula. If the education deformers are truly serious about education for “college and careers,” then they should grok that there are hundreds of college majors and hundreds of possible careers, and people have abilities and predispositions for different ones and require different preparation. Schooling, by the high-school level, should be a garden of many paths, and teachers to the guide to that. Oh, swimming is over there. And down that way are the mountain biking trails. And here, the salmon habitat research center. Not the greatest metaphor here, but teachers should be the guides to the garden. Ah, this you will like. The kids should not be loaded up with 100-lb packs and force marched in 100-degree weather at a furious pace up the same mountain, with the few who make it to the top getting all the rewards. That’s cruel and stupid.
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What was your instrument, Ginny? Or were you a singer?
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Singer! Hoping to return to classical chorus next year. I stopped my mediocre piano-playing when I couldn’t get room at the piano bench anymore (raised musicians). Sons’ teach instruments for a living (one guitar, the other piano), and hubby plays various saxes in various bands..
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That’s awesome. Good luck with taking up piano again. I have also recently started this, after a many-year hiatus. I am a university-trained classical and jazz guitarist, so I understand a bit about a music. Never was my main thing though.
About those differences between kids. Garlic will kill dogs but is great for ducks and chickens. We need to stop treating every student like a duck.
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And congrats on the Latin Award! When I was in high school, I won a national Creative Writing contest sponsored by the American Academy of Arts and Letters that included publication of my poems and a cash prize. On the day when the school held the assembly and my prize was announced, I, not knowing of this, had skipped school. LOL. So, I didn’t get to enjoy the moment of glory. But the prize was nice. It bought a bunch of books.
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hahahaha! you skipped school that day ROFL.
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Yeah. That skipping school. What an idiot!
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@ Bob S. re:10:04 am comment – love this!! The garden of learning.
And the analogy of marching up a mounting with the same path for all – so true, but easier for those who want to test and make computer programs to deliver curriculum.
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Interesting post, nycpsp. I really like what they did with math classes at your high school. It seems like an end-run around limitations—not only of tracking, but of grade-by-grade content. At my hisch (‘60’s), content was strictly determined by track within grade. There was flexibility on track: they seemed to push you ahead in certain subjects if they thought you could handle it. Always resulting in oddities, like my getting bumped into ‘accelerated’ Alg II just cuz I aced Geometry—whoops! I never regretted those situations, even that one. I struggled, my teacher helped me daily after school, I was proud to share accelerated kids’ rarefied atmosphere, & didn’t expect to do as well as they did. Tracking was only deadly in those schools where they dumped you in a track & never let you out of it.
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Thanks for your interesting replies. I’m glad you mentioned being “dumped in a track & never let out of it”. That’s something that should never happen but too often does. I always imagine a dream public school system where high school students are welcome in any track with extra support to keep up if they are very motivated or no shame in moving to a less accelerated track if they decide that is better for them.
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Amen to these comments, Bethree and NYC!
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This is an Important discussion. I agree about the extracurricular activities – very important and should be diverse – not just team sport oriented. Students need to find a purpose or passion – from art to soccer to chess club….. There should be time and space for non-competitive endeavors…. communities of learning – a place for young people to be mentored, engaged with to build a skill – something that isn’t on a report card.
I agree that the whole structure of school needs to be reworked. We are too entrenched in a structure that is organized around what publishers and tech companies are pushing.
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On the gifted and talented track at Age Four
College-ready in kindergarten
Bachelor’s in first
PhD in second grade
A life that’s well rehearsed
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Gifted and Talented
My child is a Newton
At four years of age
There’s no use disputin’
He’s really a sage
So give him a pass
For study of Plato
And not just a class
To play with the Playdough
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I am a current G&T parent. “NYC public school parent” has no idea what he is talking about in his frequent rants against G&T. Every time I read one of his screeds I am thinking “No” “Wrong” and other comments along that line. I do not have the time or inclination to refute his ignorance line for line, but would just like to communicate to this audience that he is not a credible source when it comes to G&T. Thank you.
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I am starting to worry about you. Maybe you are a rational person in real life, but you have created an entire fantasy about who I am and what my (fairly reasonable, I believe) posts say. My working hypothesis is that you think posts by at least one other person are also mine.
Giving you the benefit of the doubt here –
Why don’t you actually defend the g&t program that NYC has from my criticisms? I am critical of any g&t program that purports to be able to identify gifted 4 year olds using a test that some (many?) parents pay tutors to prep their kid for. I am critical of any g&t program that claims to be able to sort the “gifted” 4 year olds from the “non-gifted” 4 year olds and then justifies as a worthy goal separating those “gifted” 4 year olds away from the “non-gifted” ones for at least the next 6 years because the “gifted” ones need their special gifts nurtured in a way that can only be done if they are separated from their “non-gifted” classmates.
Maybe I am wrong, but your choice to simply launch personal attacks on me is not going to convince anyone of that. I suspect it may convince readers that parents in the g&t program can’t even justify its existence beyond the fact that it’s nice for their kid not to have to be in a regular public school with those non-gifted kids. And I can’t really argue that it isn’t nice for your kid to be in the program. I am sure it is.
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