What can you say when the gun violence becomes a regular occurrence? What do you say when the politicians funded by the NRA offer their ritual “thoughts and prayers” while making clear that they have no intention of demanding new gun laws to stop the carnage? No ban on assault weapons. No background checks. No mandatory training. No limits on who can buy a weapon.
This is madness.
The killer posts a hate-filled manifesto. The talking heads on TV pontificate about “motive,” which is plain as daylight.
When does it end? Do you have any answers? One seems obvious. Gun control. Tight restrictions on who can get a gun. A complete ban on assault weapons.
How about an end to hate-mongering? How do we do that? I don’t know.
Any ideas?
This is becoming a dangerous country, where death looms in shopping malls, schools, movie theaters, festivals, anywhere that people gather.
Trump spoke in his inaugural about “American carnage.”
Yes.
Diane Ravitch's blog 
It doesn’t end until we retake control of the public sphere instead of allowing it to grow into an even more effective space for propaganda and manipulation. That people are easily manipulated into violence has been evident for centuries. For centuries, we have erected social, moral and educational barriers to circumvent this. We have never been completely successful, obviously, but our greatest failure, to date, may be social media.
I don’t know what to suggest, but we all have to become the gatekeepers around a humane public sphere, keeping the rabid out. if we could at least come to agreement on that, perhaps practical means of implementation will follow.
It seems to me that hate filled speech borders on yelling fire in a crowded theater. I wish it was so clear cut that we could shut it down, Any suggestion of violence in the public sphere should be condemned, but whether we can take some action against it is less clear. What is free speech and what is inciting violence? Even individuals on this blog have not been beyond some pretty lurid descriptions of what they might like to do to certain other individuals. Social media seems to have given people license to say things that they would never say on the street although that is changing as well.
Yes. The problem is deeper and older, however: https://onefleweast.net/2019/08/04/they-are-the-instigators-not-me/
When the President of the country spends two years inflaming racial division and hatred and fear of immigrants, this is the kind of thing that happens. Pelosi, enough. Do your job. Initiate impeachment proceedings against the cretin who inspires these outrages.
This is the 249th mass shooting in the United States so far this year. Will the Repugnican Senate continue to block any sane gun legislation. Yup. It will.
https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/
More “thoughts and prayers” anyone?
This type of thing will NEVER end until there are strict gun control laws. How many innocent people need to be killed before something meaningful is done? Politicians are being bought off by the NRA. My hope is that the NRA officially goes bankrupt.
My Senator Todd Young [R-IN] received $2,896,732 from the NRA. Trump received $30 million. No wonder my thoughts on gun control never matters.
I wrote a comment to my Senator regarding lack of gun control every day for a month and a half….nothing ever changes.
Ban semi-automatic weapons, 3-D printed weapons, and rifles that shoot more than a single round.
Require extensive background checks. Raise the minimum age for gun ownership to 35. (Most of these shooters are young men.)
Outlaw concealed carry.
Ban gun shows and private gun sales. Allow gun sales only through licensed dealers.
Require all gun owners to keep their guns in a locked, wired “smart safe” subject to routine, surprise inspection, and install on all approved safes a feature that allows two means for opening: 1) routine opening after having called a police department hotline to describe the purpose (going to shooting range, hunting, etc) and to get a code allowing the safe to be opened; or 2) emergency opening that automatically notifies the local police department that an emergency is in progress at the safe’s location.
Some ideas off the top of my head.
Excellent summary of gun control, thank you Bob. Take away the guns and oversee who owns what tp make this right-wing deranged fringe of men less lethal. 2 yrs of bombastic Trump has aroused and mobilized violent passions along a broad spectrum, from the 44% who approve of Trump and will do nothing more lethal than voting for him again in 2020, to the Charlottesville right-wing mob, to the armed fringe of angry men ready for mass murder. Trump is a minority pres. who plays a weak hand very strongly, his outbursts dominate national news and discussion, he sets the agenda by shameless ridicule and lyin, bullying all around him into compliance and nonstop mass rallies to keep his base mobilized, part of which includes a lethal fringe of racists who have always been part of this society. Democrats purged their liberal wing 40 yrs ago after McGovern’s defeat and became partners to the GOP in advancing neoliberal looting and transfer of public wealth to private hands. Electoral politics is a slow mechanism to address this while extra-parliamentary opposition, strikes, occupations, and boycotts, move the needle more quickly.
Jeff Bezos just bought a $400 million yacht.
We can’t have leaders that incite violence and revel in the fear and hatred they promote.
We can’t have outlandish inequity, domestic and global.
Social media and online information needs some degree of quality control, but we can’t become thought police, and anything approaching that will likely backfire. Yes, it needs to be more humane, though not by force or surveillance or ostracism, which is not humane.
Our culture needs a lot of improvement. From TMZ to UFC to WWE.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.tmz.com/2019/08/03/donald-jr-eric-trump-full-day-ufc-espn-5-fights-covington-lawler/
This madness will end when several things occur in a perfect storm:
People gain an understanding about what the 2nd Amendment was really about and what it intended and did not intend to do for our freedoms.
People who think the status quo with guns is just fine will start to feel the pain when they personally are affected by gun fire, directly or indirectly, and with reasonable or absolute proximity to its results. It’s very unfortunate to have to say this, but when there is enough pain, there greatly stands to be gain. Many people who are so pro-gun and believe in high capacity magazines are “testa dura” and have to learn the hard way.
When gun fire affects our elected politicians in a very close and personal way.
When far more civilians get involved in politics and become politically active on all levels.
I don’t wish gun shots on anyone. Gun power revolutionized mankind for the worse.
But until these four things happen, there is little to expect as gun deaths become the norm and, more frighteningly, people become desensitized.
I urge everyone to contribute to and volunteer service to the Sandy Hook Promise.
See:
https://www.sandyhookpromise.org
I was going to see “Ad Astra” but have changed my mind about viewing it in a public, commercial movie theater.
Sad.
“People who think the status quo with guns is just fine will start to feel the pain when they personally are affected by gunfire, directly or indirectly, and with reasonable or absolute proximity to its results.”
I agree, but do you know how many people will have to die so most of the people will be personally affected by this to bring about the appropriate changes?
Millions!
Lloyd Lofthouse: My brother keeps a gun because he believes the military is saving up canned goods and food for the day that they will begin killing civilians in the US.
I’ve said that if the military wants to kill, a hand gun will mean nothing. I don’t get through.
[Remember that Obama killed people in FEMA camps.]
You are correct. The kind of firearms civilians can buy is at best a defense against other civilians.
If the military decided to take over the country and all of the generals and admirals and troops agreed, the civilian population wouldn’t stand a chance. The best the civilians could do would be to fight a long-term guerilla-style war like we faced in Vietnam and still face in Iraq and Afghanistan and other middle eastern countries and many would die in the process.
If the United States collapses into a civil war, Trumpists against the rest of us, I expect if it was not over quickly and it dragged on for years, millions would die and even more would be maimed and wounded and most of if not all of our cities, electric power sources, damns, bridges, railroads, and airports would be destroyed.
The rest of the world would watch in shock as the U.S. destroyed itself — all thanks to a malignant narcissist like Donald Trump.
Both psychopathy and sociopathy, and APD generally, share features with narcissistic personality disorder (NPD), the condition exhibited by persons commonly called narcissists. Like persons with APD, narcissists generally lack empathy and tend to have unrealistically high opinions of themselves, and, like psychopaths, narcissists tend to form shallow relationships, to exploit and manipulate others, and to be glib and superficially charming. Unlike many persons with APD, however, narcissists are generally not impulsive, aggressive, or habitually deceitful. Nor do they characteristically display conduct disorder during childhood or criminal behavior in adulthood. Narcissists also characteristically manifest a compelling need for the admiration, esteem, or envy of others, a trait not displayed by persons with APD.
Let us not forget that Trump is a “malignant narcissist,” the worse kind. Very dangerous. If Trump knew he was going to fail, lose it all, and end up in prison, if he was still president, he might attempt to destroy the country and even the planet to get even with everyone. Those who don’t like him and those who supported him but failed to keep him in power.
https://www.bustle.com/p/8-signs-of-malignant-narcissism-34154
Lloyd, if the revolution will not be against he overclass but within the working class instead, then the politicians will still have to take notice. It’s very sad to say this or even think this, but it’s true. I don’t think it will take millions, but it will take enough of this crap to occur in major locales and in overt, public ways.
It’s already happening but most of the violence has been one-sided, meaning the hardcore racist Trumpists have been doing most of if not all of the killing so far.
“There have been more mass shootings than days in 2019” – CBS News
“The number of mass shootings across the U.S. so far in 2019 has outpaced the number of days this year, according to a gun violence research group. This puts 2019 on pace to be the first year since 2016 with an average of more than one mass shooting a day.” …
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/2019-mass-shootings-there-have-been-more-mass-shootings-than-days-this-year/
“When gun fire affects our elected politicians in a very close and personal way.”
https://thehill.com/homenews/house/353714-scalise-shooting-fortified-view-on-gun-rights
There is definitely something missing upstairs in this GOP stuck brain. More guns equals more killing and maiming. Death doesn’t matter because it limits the number of people needing healthcare. “Thoughts and prayers’ is the GOP version of healthcare and it is very cheap. That version is only available for the poor and middle class.
As my brother says, what will happen when the military comes to kill everyone? He will have his handgun and will protect his family.
…………………………………………….
“A bullet went through Scalise’s hip and damaged his pelvis, resulting in multiple surgeries. He is still undergoing out-patient rehabilitation and requires crutches and a scooter to get around.”
Getting rid of Trump in January 2021 will be a good place to start since he is the hater-in-chief.
But the only way to stop this hater-in-chief will be to put him in prison once he is out of the White House, strip all of his wealth from his family, and ban him from Twitter and all other social media sites.
The first thing Democrats can do is each stop your own inflammatory hate speech. Trump won the election. Accept it.
Trump “won” based on hate, racism, fear, insanity, desperation, analytics and foreign intervention.
Fighting for democracy and against criminality is not hate speech.
Accept it.
Does that mean accepting all the hate, bigotry and violence that goes with it?
And just what does that have to do with the shooting in El Paso? Whoops, based on the manifesto of the shooter, you’re right—everything.
But seriously, Diane, you banish Charles and allow this?
Bam
Your compassion for dead of El Paso is Humbling!
Harlan,
The first think you can do is to stop being such a dullard and stick to the topic at hand. Twenty people were shot dead in El Paso. How fortunate you were not one of them . . . .
H.U. – will you accept President Bernie Sanders? Did you accept Obama without complaint of any kind?
Dog-whistle Don has spent two and a half years spewing hate about immigrants from his perch in his Whiter House. Tomorrow, he will disavow this act. Then he will go back to his hate speech. He’s done it time and time and time again. Yeah, Trump squeaked by, losing the popular vote and barely securing the Electoral College with a lot of help from his buddy Vlad, who must be quite pleased, about now, by his enormous investment in this vile, disgusting white supremacist ultra-nationalist creep–Vlad’s Agent Orange, hero to neo-Nazis like the monster who committed this atrocity today. Harlan, how can you? How can you continue to support this? We fought a war against racist ultranationalists in the middle of the last century. Does that mean nothing to you? How old are you, Harlan? And you have learned NOTHING? Shame on you. And shame on all who support this slimy, sickening, dangerous, deranged cretin.
Your stupid comment has nothing to do with El Paso accept to appear that the deaths of 20 people at the hand of a racist terrorist don’t bother you as much as the Democrats not liking Trump.
Please MAGA and disappear.
Thank you.
I don’t put Harlan into moderation because his comments are typically so absurd that they are self-refuting.
I hope you live long enough, Harlan, to see your buddy Don the Con in prison for the rest of his life. That he is going to prison is without doubt. The only thing that could keep him out of prison for another few years is winning the 2020 election. Money laundering. Rape and assault of numerous women. Obstruction of justice. Let me add to those: Conspiracy to commit kidnapping. Obstruction of people’s legal right to claim asylum. Incitement of domestic terrorism. Oh, but the economy!
IQ45, the Stable Genius: I’m gonna put more tariffs on China. They’re gonna pay us billions!
TRUMP SUPPORTER: Yeah, get tough! Teach those Chinese a lesson!
ANYONE WITH A BRAIN: China doesn’t pay the tariffs on Chinese goods. American businesses and consumers do. This is going to cost me a lot. Is Prez Pinocchio just lying, or is he really that stupid? Yeah, both. Oh, and btw, we just happen to be in an uptick of the business cycle that started in the last two years of the Obama administration. I guess a person who’s Daddy has a lot of money can get a degree from Wharton without having taken Econ 101.
cx: whose, of course, not who’s. Oh for a correction feature for these WordPress entries!!!
Agreed, but we are in the midst (or nearing the end) of a 10-year economic cycle.
The first thing you can do is to realize that you provide absolutely nothing but your own hate-filled message that leads us nowhere but retort back to you, with rebuke and cynicism.
Obviously,
Harlan is doing this to get attention and provoke, but not to maker others think deeply. He must have been a lousy teacher.
Robert, I recall that Harlan has never been a public school teacher and has only worked in private schools … not even corporate charters.
The role of the president is to serve the people, not to inspire others to acts of violence.
The role of this president is to serve this president–e.g., violations of the emoluments clauses of the Constitution? Nomination, in a single week, of two utterly unqualified rabid Trump supporters to extremely sensitive, high-level government posts (U.N. Ambassador and Director of National Intelligence).
I’m so glad that you don’t ban Harlan, Diane. He’s comic relief. And yes, like his hero Don the Con, self parodying. This is a guy who can’t tell the difference between Denmark and the Soviet Union under Stalin. Those horrible Socialists! LOL.
Bob,
I confess that Charles is gone. He surpassed my tolerance level.
I shall miss him. Another unwitting jester.
I don’t miss him ever.
I miss Charles. As much as I disagreed with him, as much as I may have mocked with his narrow view of the world despite his claims of having been everywhere, I got the sense that he was struggling with his certainty—which I also try and aspire to do. And he certainly never displayed the raw hate of Harlan or some of the other commentators who spew their narrow-mindedness here.
Interestingly, Harlan writes some very readable poetry. People are complicated.
Harlan, with a little revision, “your flawed logic” makes as much sense as this:
The first thing all Germans can do is each stop their own inflammatory hate speech. Hitler won the election. Accept it and long live the fuhrer.
And I think it is a safe bet that Donald Trump wants to do the same thing Hitler did.
“Hitler succeeded Hindenburg as head of state upon his death in 1934, whereafter he abolished the office entirely, and replaced it with the new position of Führer und Reichskanzler (“Leader and Reich Chancellor”), cementing his rule.”
But, Trump has this obstacle in his way and it is called the U.S. Constitution that he has stomped on repeatedly in his attempt to become the leader he wants to be with total power.
For instance, every time he attacks the media, he stomps on the first amendment.
“Guns don’t kill people, people kill people” I can hear the NRA PR machine at work already.
Actually – it’s the CULTURE of guns + the president’s validation of nationalism and hate and his anything-goes deregulation that kills people.
The GOP and this president have allowed the proliferation of guns in every nook and cranny of America. But it’s not the guns – it’s the mindset that it is ok for anyone to own a gun and do whatever they want with it (including his wanting to arm teachers). But that’s only half the formula.
This hate mongering, race-baiting, gated community/America, make America white president is the pouring-gas-on-fire problem.
This president has blessed the NRA and David Duke.
He has declared “there are fine people on both sides” in race-based attacks.
He has attacked African-Americans in Congress.
He has demeaned African-American leaders of inner cities of which he has no clue except his father’s race-based housing and his son-in-law’s slum landlord management.
He allows goose-stepping rally attendees to shout “lock her up” an “send them back”
He obsesses over his wall and proudly separates immigrant families as a deterrent to migration.
When they charge this guy in Texas and looking for a possible second suspect, they need to go to DC to find his inspiration
There have been mass shootings since the University of Texas and bombings back to Oklahoma City. But the trajectory of the incidents is staggering.
What’s different? More guns? Maybe. But for sure, not maybe, the cause is this president and elected officials who are owned by the NRA and the rest who are afraid of a tweet to speak up.
If we agreed with the NRA that people kill people, all we have to do is carry that logic a bit further and say, “Since people kill people, we have to keep the most dangerous weapons away from those people to limit the deaths.”
I’m worried about “the squad” in congress. Trump’s lies and hate are getting innocents killed. I’m praying that he’s removed ASAP!
I worry too that Trump will inspire assassinations of his enemies.
Do you think the Squad will get the same level of protection as the inane DeVos?
Threats against members of Congress continue to grow, Capitol Police Chief Steven A. Sund said Tuesday at his first appearance as head of the department before the House Administration Committee.
“We continue to see the threat assessment cases that we’re opening continue to grow,” Sund said. “For fiscal year 2018, we had approximately 4,894 cases. So far, for this year, we have 2,502 cases. So we’re on par to probably break last year’s.” …
“House Sergeant-at-Arms Paul D. Irving said after the hearing that as members become more prominent in the media, his office provides enhanced support in their districts — by liaising with the district office’s law enforcement coordinator and local law enforcement — when they’re making appearances in public.”
https://www.rollcall.com/news/congress/threats-against-members-increasing-capitol-police-chief-sund-says
“American Carnage’ is what promised us when a few months ago he stated that if we try to get rid on him “his military, his police, and his bikers” would be unleashed on us. Is anyone listening to his words?
You’re right, and people think he is just joking when he says these things. The people who hear the underlying message are considered crazy. It’s happening and people are too distracted by the disaster du jour to remember the “how” and “why”.
From June 2018 – New Jersey Gov. Phil Murphy signed six of the toughest gun control bills in the nation into law on Wednesday, saying the new legislation is “common sense” and “we need to make smart policy decisions going forward.”
But Murphy wants more, saying that New Jersey can only do so much because of weaker gun laws in other states that, he says, enable people to easily access guns elsewhere and bring them into the state. end quote
NJ already had some of the tougher gun laws in the country. The Democrats need to gain control of the Senate and the WH before anything can be done. Even most of the corporate Democrats are for gun control. Vote the GOP out, that’s a start.
It isn’t just the NRA and the bought and paid for (bribed) politicians, mostly GOP, who stand in the way of decent gun laws. We have a sizable chunk of the population which loves its guns and doesn’t want any new gun laws impeding the purchase of high powered guns and ammunition.
What other civilized country would put up with these almost daily massacres?
My prediction: nothing will happen, zero, nada.
Joe Jersey, since you wrote this, there was another mass shooting in Dayton.
There are 300 million guns in America.
We need a President and Congress willing to ban private ownership of all military grade weapons, to criminalize their possession, to close all the loopholes.
After the massacre at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in February 2018, we had an extended discussion of gun violence here.
First, we discussed the strict laws that other nations adopted.
Second, we discussed the fact that the US controlled assault weapons for a decade, in the 90s, a law that Bush 2 allowed to expire in 2004.
And Justice Stevens (retired) wrote an editorial explaining why gun control is constitutional.
Another today, in Chicago
This rich kid lived over 600 miles away from El Paso. He went there because the city is over 80% Mexican. He was gunning for Mexicans. You know, the rapists, murderers and gang bangers that Trump disparages. Ugly, violent rhetoric has consequences, although he went out of his way to say that he felt this way before Trump was president.
He wrote, “This attack is a response to the Hispanic invasion of Texas.” This mofo obviously doesn’t know the history of Texas!
Also, look at how he was taken alive. No robot with a bomb, no strangle hold.
What will happen? Nothing.
“This attack is a response to the Hispanic invasion of Texas.”
This killer was the product of ignorance mixed with hate. Texas was part of Mexico and the majority of the population back then was Latinos and Hispanics before the Texans (whites, Latinos, and Hispanics joined together) and fought their rebellion against Mexico to become a nation for a short period of time before joining the United States just like California did.
Twenty-nine comments. Not one focusing on the main problem with the violence in our society. Yes, the tRump’s rhetoric is disgusting, unethical and immoral but he is just one in a long line of presidents who have presided over the militarization of this country in all facets of society.
Until we rein in the death and destruction machine and the accompanying supposedly patriotic rhetoric wherein using violence, killing innocents around the world as a foreign policy go to and here in this country by supposed officers of the law who wantonly kill innocents, until we break the stranglehold of glorifying that death and destruction, until we learn to value peace, tranquility and the inherent dignity of all human beings these mass killings will continue.
Death and destruction is in the marrow of the bones of the vast majority of Americans as shown by the “support our troops”, “blue lives matter” and/or the glorification of that death and destruction machine, the US military in mass media, at sporting events-see the huge flag being displayed on the field or court, being held by the police or the military and feel oh so damn patriotic, the flyovers and military presence damn near everywhere, the giving of personal information to the military of our children, allowing recruiting for the death and destruction machine at our public high schools. . . One can go on listing many more ways that the death and destruction machine operates in this country.
And everyone one is surprised and shocked, horrified by these mass shootings. Open your eyes folks. . . and your hearts to what is the main cause, the fundamental deadly nature of our country.
Duane, I agree and disagree. The disagree part is that I grew up immersed in patriotism, and yet there was not a mass shooting every week or day. That’s fairly recent. Maybe there would have been had bitter people had access to military weapons. Back in the 40s, 50s, 60s, the angry and bitter men had handguns and rifles, not assault guns. The “agree” part that our nation has been in involved in the longest war in our history, we have military bases and troops stationed all over the world, our mass media glorify violence, and this militarization has been going on a long time. Added to that is a president who likes to throw lit matches at every possible tinder box. Leading up to the election, it’s clear that he plans to deepen the rage and divisions by attacking the most vulnerable and stoking hatred.
I reiterate – and agree – it’s not the guns (or the patriotic rockets red glare) it’s the culture of guns in this century. Think back to the ’60s. Civil rights, anti-war, anti-hippie, ’68 convention…. imagine if guns were prevalent as they are today. The Chicago Police would have been but one of many many violent attacks witnessed.
Does unfettered access to guns and ammunition have anything to do with the death and destruction you cite?
I can’t agree that there is “unfettered access to guns”. Have you ever bought one?
But does easy access through buying at gun shows and off the street have anything to do with that death and destruction. Yes, a little. But it is a symptom and/or consequence and not the cause of the death and destruction caused by the US Military and it’s utter worship by people like you (see I can make completely unfounded and made up statements about you like you have done to me before).
So, the answer to your question is: not really.
“I can’t agree that there is ‘unfettered access to guns’. Have you ever bought one?”
Duane, it depends on the state you live in. I was born and still live in California and it isn’t easy to buy a firearm but it isn’t impossible. I have several firearms locked up in my firearm safe that I have bolted to the floor and wall. None of them is military style. I’d have to visit another state to buy me a military-style submachine gun.
The following link leads you to a guide that has everything you need to know about U.S. gun laws by state.
“It has been left to all the 50 individual states in the US to determine how they will issue permits or if a permit is even required to openly or conceal carry firearms. All states will allow in theory the carry of firearms. However, there are some states that make the application process so difficult that in practice a regular citizen is banned from having a handgun. These states are usually the ones that have a ‘May Issue’ policy such as Hawaii, California, New York and a few more.”
https://www.gunstocarry.com/gun-laws-state/
A friend who has a conceal carry permit for more than thirty states (but not California where she lives with her husband) says the NRA is working hard (and spending lots of money in the state) to break California’s firearm laws so it will be easier to get a concealed carry permit there, too.
Thanks for the info, Lloyd!
Duane: There is a gun shop about 10 minutes from my house. All I have to do is walk in and buy whatever I want. I’ve seen full page ads listing all sorts of guns. There is a gun show at a fairgrounds near me and I see big yellow signs pointing at where to go to park.
I live in NW Indiana and many of the killings that occur in Chicago comes from guns purchased in Indiana.
It is easy to purchase a gun in this state.
Yes, there is a lot of violence in our entertainment, sports, movies and games. A lot of emphasis and ceremony over how we handle tensions and conflicts around the world and in our neighborhoods.
So, how exactly do we rein that in?
As I commented earlier today on another forum: It may take a complete destruction of American society a la what happened to Germany and Japan at the end of WW2. Something that forces this country to begin to abide by international law instead of being the world’s leading aggressive war monger. How that might happen I have no clue and more likely than not I’ll be dead by the time it happens.
If we had total control over laws, all laws, manmade and natural:
Rein in our leaders
Rein in our guns
Rein in inequality
Rein in our entertainment
Rein in our police and military
Rein in our fanfare over our police and military
Rein in ourselves
When people vote Republican, they vote for the NRA. The one absolute correlation is quantity of guns and number of murders by gun.
It’s unbelievable that one Republican Congressman was shot and injured and he doesn’t believe in any gun control laws. Dimwitted doesn’t cover it.
………………………………………………………………….
On June 14, 2017, during a practice session for the annual Congressional Baseball Game for Charity in Alexandria, Virginia, James Hodgkinson shot U.S. House Majority Whip Steve Scalise.
“Don’t try to put new laws in place that don’t fix these problems,” said Scalise. “They only make it harder for law-abiding citizens to own a gun.” When asked if he believed the right to bear arms was “unlimited,” Scalise said: “It is, it is.”
Carol,
There is no cure for stupid.
Scalise is linked to white nationalists. He’s playing the odds and collecting campaign donations.
Nine are dead and 16 wounded in Dayton Ohio, last night around 1 pm in the “entertainment district.” The carnage there and elsewhere is enabled by the NRA, Trumpsters, and a bunch of complacent elected officials, local, state, and federal.
In addition to everything else you’ve mentioned, I think we need to be less antiseptic about what is happening. We need to be direct and clear about the carnage. I wrote this after the Pittsburgh synagogue shooting. https://www.governing.com/blogs/view/col-why-we-need-see-graphic-images-victims-gun-violence.html
Mass shootings are partly consequent to the proliferation of guns – gun control would help. But mostly consequent to the cultural acceptability of hate speech. Hatred of the other proliferates in a fearful atmosphere. The fear is spawned by steadily increasing economic insecurity. Mass shootings have increased hand-in-hand w/4 decades of spiraling inequality. They are part of bread and circuses.
Hate has now become the main agenda of the Trump party.
The NRA has been flush with Russian cash for ages, showering politicians (primarily Republicans) with large campaign “donations”. What does Russia get in return for their investment? Lax gun laws and greater proliferation of military weaponry on our streets leading to more massacres and further destabilization and division of their enemy the U.S. Remember the Kremlin agent Maria Butina modeling her machine gun? For the feckless GOP it never was about Condtitutional originalism it was just about the rubles.
Good point. Maria Butina came here to advocate against gun control, supposedly on behalf of Russia’s gun advocates. She slept her way to the top of the NRA and into elite Republican circles. Private ownership of guns is banned in Russia.
Just think. In order to drive a car we have to have a practice period where we can only drive with a licensed driver. We have restrictions on our first year of driving or so. We have to have an eye exam. We have to take a written test and a driving test. We have to have insurance. We have to have a registration. We are subject to all sorts of laws concerning driving and the maintenance of a car. Yet we can walk into a shop and buy a gun without having any class in how to use or maintain the gun or knowledge of laws surrounding gun use. Guns were made with the specific purpose of killing. It’s not right. I have no problem with owning a gun for home protection or hunting. And I would even give that up to have fewer or none of these violent incidents. Yes, there are many people out there who have lived their whole lives just fine without a gun. We should have some practical measures though. How about a background check, mandatory classes in using and maintaining a gun (the gun classes you have to take now are a joke. I know. I took one.), registration of your weapons. How about a complete ban on these weapons that are only used in war. But we also glorify the use of weapons in our culture. That’s a tougher one to change. In so many ways, we are just a sick people with a sick culture. Pretty much nothing our culture is healthy – our food, our relationship to work, our willingness to pollute the environment, our exercise habits, our use of drugs, our use of technology, social media, and the list goes on. We are just a sick people and we seem to like it. That’s all I can say.
I guess even deeper than all that is the underlying problem of the buying of our politicians by special interests like the NRA (and others) and the blind loyalty to political party by politicians. Our government is run either covertly or overtly by millionaires and billionaires (channeling Bernie).
I often wonder what would happen if the principal of a school hopped on the PA and said, “All you students and teachers who come from other countries, just go back home.” or “The countries you come from are filthy and s-holes.” What if the manager of a store sent out an email saying these things. Or the CEO of a company. What would happen? Yet, our government officials accept it in a president of the United States.
If Trump worked in a business he didn’t own, he would have been fired long ago for hate speech and creating a hostile workplace
“In so many ways, we are just a sick people with a sick culture.”
A nice synopsis of what I said above, thanks!!
” I guess even deeper than all that is the underlying problem of the buying of our politicians by special interests like the NRA (and others) and the blind loyalty to political party by politicians. Our government is run either covertly or overtly by millionaires and billionaires (channeling Bernie).”
This is the root of the tree, in my opinion. Even the blind loyalty to party is a manipulation by big $. We’ve had special interest influence forever, but today we have fanatic ideologue industrialists like the Kochs’, whose interest goes way beyond greasing the wheels for their products. They are intent on shaping their world in their favor. And the very existence of such wide-reaching clout [not just Kochs, but Gates & Bezos] is a direct result of decades of anti-New Deal deregulation. Once you allow so much to be held by individuals, you are handing them enough power to begin shaping their world as they see fit, & most will take up the challenge.
Every unhealthy habit you list under our “sick culture” is a direct result of market manipulation by the powerful, isn’t it? Those things aren’t exactly culture, I don’t think. Gun ownership comes closest to cultural roots, but not glorification of weapons or mindless violence. The rest of the list are habits consequent to unregulated free market.
However… we may have a cultural leaning toward unregulated free enterprise– the cultural heritage of rugged individualism et al features that supported developing a lightly-populated frontier. We are still bogged down by the cultural trappings of an obsolete era.
8Chan, a former location of QAnon, is linked to the El Paso alleged shooter. At Trump’s recent rally in Ohio, attendees wore QAnon t-shirts and held up QAnon signs.
Trump’s message last night to the victims’ families in El Paso was that he and his immigrant wife send their prayers… unbelievable.
Only his prayers, not his thoughts?
This is a man who has no thoughts or prayers, a man whose brain feeds on and spews hate.
He can’t send what he doesn’t have.
I hesitate to post this the killer’s screed. No one has to read it, but I did and my take is that the individual had a mishmash of ideas floating around in his head and they all got combined into a sad and deadly mixture of pseudo-patriotism, self pity and pseudo-heroism.
https://louisproyect.org/2019/08/04/the-manifesto-of-the-el-paso-white-supremacist-killer/
Duane E Swacker: He’s a racist sicko. How sad because he is very intelligent.
“The best solution to this for now would be to divide America into a confederacy of territories with at least 1 territory for each race. This physical separation would nearly eliminate race mixing and improve social unity by granting each race self-determination within their respective territory(s).”
Just heard on CNN that despite his racist “manifesto,” the FBI and police are trying to determine whether his murders were motivated by hate.
WTF?
and that feels to be the exact reason why this particular type of violence will be ongoing
“possible hate crime”. Are these people stupid?
Here is the headline from the NYT:
Federal investigators are treating the El Paso shooting that left at least 20 people dead as an act of domestic terrorism and a possible hate crime.
The nutposted a hateful screed online ranting against Mexicans and the authorities want to investigate whether he was motivated by hate. It sure wasn’t love.
Yes, that would be a 1,000 font size WTF!
I guess part of the problem too is that we have a Russian asset and a threat to national security (on many levels) in the White House, and our Congress has made themselves impotent and unwilling to stop it.
Exactly, Marnie. This president, when a candidate, publicly called upon Russia to interfere with our election by hacking his opponent’s emails!!! That is not collusion? Give me a break. It is collusion in plain sight. If the same comments were made to Russian operatives on a secret telephone call, they would be grounds for a trial for treason. How are they not when they are made in public? This I do not understand. We’ve become so used to these obscenities from this criminal child-man who lacks all decency and decorum that many don’t see what is staring them in the face. Yes, Trump colluded with the Russians to hack our election. HE DID SO IN PUBLIC. And we just don’t know, yet, the full extent to which he did so in private, though the evidence, there, is also extremely suggestive.
How can we accuse the Orange Swamp Monster of being racist? He says he isn’t. [Remember Putin didn’t interfere in our elections because he said he didn’t.] Trump never lies.
………..
“Well, you know, when it comes to racism and racists, I am the least racist person there is. And I think most people that know me would tell you that. I am the least racist, I’ve had great relationships. In fact, Randall Pinkett won, on the as you know, on ‘The Apprentice’ a little while ago, a couple of years ago. And Randall’s been outstanding in every way. So I mean, I am the least racist person,” Trump said while defending himself against allegations of racism in May 2011 by pointing out he chose a black winner on his NBC show.
I’ve got yer Mental Health Problem right here —
Trump laughs after audience member suggests shooting migrants
An audience member at a Donald Trump rally in Florida yelled ‘shoot them’ in reference to migrants at the border. Trump had asked the crowd: ‘How do you stop these people?’ After laughing at the response, he added: ‘Only in the panhandle can you get away with that statement’
This is a different way that children in Indiana are dying. It’s off topic but nothing gets done to help people in need and this is the result. [low income, substance abuse, domestic violence] The GOP solves all problems with more ‘thoughts and prayers’. Otherwise, you are on your own. Why can’t these people have healthcare with no strings attached? Why is it so difficult to give out enough food without requiring work when there are no jobs? How many adults use substance abuse to help survive unspeakable hardships?
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[NWI Times] Indiana child abuse and neglect deaths increased 10% in 2017, report shows
4 hrs ago
The 2017 DCS Child Fatality Report, the latest year for which complete statistics are available, shows 65 Hoosier children died directly as a result of abuse or neglect between July 1, 2016, and June 30, 2017, including six abused and three neglected Lake County children and two neglected children in Porter County…
Indiana tallied 77 child abuse and neglect fatalities in 2015, 66 in 2014, 49 in 2013 and 34 in 2012, according to DCS.
Altogether, 314 child deaths that occurred during Indiana’s 2017 budget year were investigated by local and state officials to determine whether suspicions of child abuse or neglect were valid.
The 41-page Child Fatality Report details the causes and circumstances of each of the 65 child deaths where abuse or neglect was substantiated.
It does not, however, specify the names or hometowns of the children…
According to the report, 29% of the 21 fatally abused Hoosier children were younger than 1 year old. Of the 44 child-neglect deaths, 41% never reached their first birthdays…
The perpetrator in the majority of child abuse and neglect deaths was the child’s biological parent or the parent’s partner, the report said.
It found the top risk factors leading to a child’s death from abuse or neglect were low income, substance abuse or a history of domestic violence.
DCS had prior contact with the families of 13 of the 65 children before their deaths.
The period covered by the report precedes Gov. Eric Holcomb’s reorganization of DCS after its former director, Mary Beth Bonaventura, resigned Dec. 27, 2017, with a warning that Holcomb’s DCS policies and spending priorities “all but ensure children will die.”..
https://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/indiana-child-abuse-and-neglect-deaths-increased-in-report-shows/article_deee0b2b-cdf3-53af-95de-e348bc7aa776.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=email&utm_campaign=user-share
Insinuations of bigotry and racism are divisive tactics used by the liberal media to control minorities in this country. This thinking is a little hard to follow. The president loves minorities.
Is this country really this stupid? Yep.
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At Donald Trump’s rally in Cincinnati, droves of attendees made it clear that they stood with the president despite his recent comments.
CINCINNATI—Donald Trump’s supporters would like to be clear: They are tired of being called racists…
It had been a rough week for his father. On July 28, President Trump was once again deemed racist after lashing out at House Oversight Chairman Elijah Cummings, whose district includes part of Baltimore. Trump referred to the city 40 miles north of Washington as “a disgusting, rat and rodent infested mess” in which “no human being would want to live.” Those comments came shortly after the president suggested that four progressive congresswomen of color “go back” to the “totally broken and crime infested places from which they came,” prompting the crowd at his July 17 rally in Greenville, North Carolina, to chant, “Send her back!” Trump—though he later disavowed the chant—did nothing to stop it.
Last night, Trump supporters in Cincinnati were eager to defend their man.
“It’s amazing that when Donald Trump makes a comment about Baltimore, it’s racist, it’s terrible, it’s this. But when the mayor of that town, when the congressman from that town, says the exact same thing, ‘Oh! No problem!’” Trump Jr. boomed, referring to a statement that Cummings made in 1999, calling Baltimore “drug-infested.”..
“Insinuations of bigotry and racism,” Straka claimed, were “divisive tactics” used by the “liberal media to control minorities in this country.” “This is a president who serves minorities,” he said, “because he loves minorities.”..
Read More:
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/08/trump-supporters-called-racists/595333/?utm_source=atl&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=share
Princess Ivanka hears the racist talk put out by her father and says nothing. Now it’s “God to “hold” the shooting victims and their loved ones “tightly in his loving arms.” Sorry, but I can’t swallow that one.
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Critics slam ‘complicit’ Ivanka Trump’s tweets mourning El Paso and Dayton shootings: ‘Save it and shove it’
On Sunday morning, the first daughter and senior White House adviser sent a tweet blasting the “heinous and cowardly acts of hate, terror and violence.” She then called for God to “hold” the shooting victims and their loved ones “tightly in his loving arms.”
But her message had critics accuse her of being “complicit” and called her to resign from the White House. Many cited her father’s anti-immigrant statements as fueling the El Paso shooter’s alleged white nationalist beliefs and demanded stricter gun control legislation…
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/ivanka-trump-el-paso-dayton-mass-shootings-backlash-155242702.html?soc_src=hl-viewer&soc_trk=ma
There is a connection between Trump’s racist comments and the killing of innocent people. Rifle with ‘high capacity magazines’ is only used to kill people. Indiana passed a law saying assault rifles could not be purchased until age 18. What a great move. Dang, now kids have to wait until they are 18 to mass kill people.
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After El Paso, We Can No Longer Ignore Trump’s Role in Inspiring Mass Shootings
n Saturday morning, a gunman at a Walmart in El Paso, Texas, shot and killed at least 20 peoplebefore surrendering to the police. By all accounts, Patrick Crusius, the 21-year-old alleged shooter, is a fan of President Donald Trump and his policies. According to the Southern Poverty Law Center, “a Twitter account bearing the suspect’s name contains liked tweets that include a ‘BuildTheWall’ hashtag” and “a photo using guns to spell out ‘Trump.’”
Incredibly, the nation woke up to more grim news on Sunday, with reports that a man suited up in body armor and bearing a rifle with high-capacity magazines had carried out a rampage in Dayton, Ohio, killing at least nine people and injuring 26.
Little is known yet about the Dayton shooter, but a four-page manifesto authorities believe was written by Crusius and posted shortly before the El Paso attack is full of the kind of hateful rhetoric and ideas that have flourished under Trump.
The manifesto declares the imminent attack “a response to the Hispanic invasion,” accuses Democrats of “pandering to the Hispanic voting bloc,” rails against “traitors,” and condemns “race mixing” and “interracial unions.” “Yet another reason to send them back,” it says.
Sound familiar? The president of the United States — who condemned the El Paso attack on Twitter — has repeatedly referred to an “invasion” at the southern border; condemned Mexican immigrants as “rapists” and Syrian refugees as “snakes;” accused his critics of treason on at least two dozen occasions; and told four elected women of color to “go back” to the “crime infested places from which they came.” (It is worth noting that Crusius, in his alleged manifesto, claims his views “predate” and are unrelated to Trump, but then goes on to attack “fake news.”)..
https://interc.pt/2LZwyKO
Until the malice of each heart is purged by self examination and contrition, we will have this continued abomination. I weep for the nation.
Meanwhile, I work for social justice, understanding, and the control of those who feel that hostility is permissible in a free society. I do so by advocating: control of weapons that have multiple shot capacity, funding of mental health programs, fair wages for workers, the safety of a universal health care program, and a school system that allows for the building of community.
I would settle for: a president that did not try to get elected by stirring the fire of hatred, a foreign policy that refrained from practices that alienated the rest of the world, and Republican Party that was willing to stand up and admit that they screwed up by not calling for its backers to support his opponent in the last election.
You know what makes me angry? Trump and others always blaming these things on mental illnesses. The vast majority of those with mental illness are incredibly peaceful. But blaming it all on mental illness makes the stigma even worse for those of us who suffer from it.
Not to mention that most of these shooters do not qualify as mentally ill. There is a HUGE difference between evil and mentally ill.
Not to mention, the evidence publicly available points to connections between the motivations of the shooters in Gilroy and El Paso and Trump’s tweets and policies: immigration, xenophobia, racism and white supremacy.
He has no choice but to focus on mental illness. Though that’s also a connection!
“There is a HUGE difference between evil and mentally ill.”
I would say they are mutually exclusive.
Trump is just like the high-school kid who throws spitballs or knocks someone’s books off a desk or otherwise disrupts class every time the teacher’s back is turned. He screws up his ugly, orange face and continually makes racist, anti-immigrant statements; stokes anti-immigrant feeling among white supremacists; and puts forward racist, anti-immigrant policies, but he usually stops short of the most bald racist language, preferring, instead, racist policy accompanied by dog-whistles. Then, after making some racist attack–telling congresswomen of color to go back to their countries, for example–he will, just like that high-school kid, deny, deny, deny. Trump: I am the least racist person. High-school kid: What? I didn’t do nothing.
Immaturity and disingenuousness. Not the qualities of a statesman, but those of a demagogue. “Hate has no place in America,” the Hater-in-Chief said this morning. That’s true. That’s why he should resign. And then be placed in detention.
According to DC Judge K******, assault weapons ‘should enjoy the same nearly unassailable level of level of constitutional protection the Supreme Court afforded to handguns in its 2008 decision in District of Columbia v. Heller.”
Sexual perverts think differently than sane people. Trump and K….two peas in a pod.
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Supreme Court Judge K****** Wants SCOTUS To Allow More Deadly Guns
Brett K wants to make it even easier for gunmen to obtain assault rifles. ThinkProgress: “if President Donald Trump’s most recent appointment to the Supreme Court gets his way, both assault rifles and high-capacity magazines will soon enjoy special constitutional protection. It is likely, moreover, that Justice Brett K has the five votes he needs to make this happen. In 2008, not long after the Supreme Court struck down its much stronger gun regulations, the District of Columbia passed an emergency law that, among other things, banned assault rifles and high-capacity magazines within the District. The law was challenged, and the challenge eventually reached a panel of three Republican appointees on the United States Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit. Two of those judges upheld the law. The third judge was K. In his dissent, K called for a sweeping expansion of the Second Amendment, beyond even what his two Republican colleagues were willing to endorse. Regarding assault rifles, the future Trump appointee argued that these weapons should enjoy the same nearly unassailable level of level of constitutional protection the Supreme Court afforded to handguns in its 2008 decision in District of Columbia v. Heller.”
The perils of internet and social media cannot be ignored and will not be ignored,” the president said, blaming “gruesome and grizzly video games” for the “glorification of violence in our society.”
Twitter. UFC. WWE.
Unfit for office. Unfit for any platform. Not an outsider/disrupter breaking through to the truth. A liar and hater breaking down and poisoning all institutions of truth and fairness to further enrich the wealthiest.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/trump-condemns-white-supremacy-racism-wake-weekend-shootings/story%3fid=64778938
I guess this means that the media should all follow Fox and ‘clean up’ Trump’s divisive rhetoric. Trump definitely doesn’t want a ‘fair, balanced and unbiased’ media.
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Donald J. Trump
✔
@realDonaldTrump
The Media has a big responsibility to life and safety in our Country. Fake News has contributed greatly to the anger and rage that has built up over many years. News coverage has got to start being fair, balanced and unbiased, or these terrible problems will only get worse!
78.7K
6:32 AM – Aug 5, 2019
Twitter Ads info and privacy
63.7K people are talking about this
I hope someone attempts to directly hold him morally accountable for creating and perpetuating this whole fake news meme through his outrageous and constant lying and his outright war on the media. HE is the instigator. HE deserves majority blame. Constant hypocrite and bad actor.
What a pile of_________.[filthy words] To condemn racism bigotry and white supremacy is to condemn the Orange Swamp Monster. I’m in favor of that.
This is the headline from NPR.
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‘Hate Has No Place’ In America, Trump Says After Mass Shootings
Responding to two mass shootings over the weekend, President Trump called on the nation to condemn “racism, bigotry and white supremacy.”
As El Paso Mourns Mass Shooting, Texas Gun Laws Are About To Get Even Looser
Under the current laws in Texas, legal gun owners don’t require an additional permit to carry long guns, such as the one the gunman used, in unrestricted public areas. There’s also no background check requirement for private sales, and no magazine capacity restriction.
From the age of 18, people may purchase a long arm…
Under the new legislation, Texas will have fewer gun-free zones.
Landlords will have no power to prevent tenants or their guests from carrying a firearm. Churches, synagogues and other places of religious worship will be removed from the list of prohibited locations for carrying a firearm. The cap on the number of armed marshals allowed at each public school campus will be removed.
These changes were passed after mass shootings at the Sutherland Springs First Baptist Church in 2017 — which 25 churchgoers, including a pregnant woman, and the shooter — and Santa Fe High School in 2018, which killed 10 people.
Ironically, the law pertaining to places of worship was actually designed in response to the First Baptist Church shooting. The Texas Legislature passed the measure to make it easier for churchgoers to carry guns. However, if a place of worship issues an oral or written notice, they may ban weapons from the property…
Article: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/texas-el-paso-shooting-states-gun-laws-looser_n_5d48dabde4b0244052dff9fc
Universal background checks would not have stopped either massacre. Neither killer had a criminal record.
Yup. The first step HAS to be getting rid of military-style weapons from civilian hands.
Trump is going to visit Texas on Wednesday. I think this sign should be put up to keep him out of the state where he will blab some nonsense.
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Video: Texas Is Closed
Some drivers trying to enter Texas were surprised to learn that the state has been temporarily closed and they’ll have to return tomorrow.
Everyone knows that Texas would never actually close but these people are trying to figure out how to deal with this man who says they can’t drive into the state. I hope you enjoyed this Candid Camera classic video.
Candid Camera Classics
Published on Aug 1, 2017
It’s worth noting that in addition to taking NRA money, most of the people in a position to enact stricter gun regulations have no real motivation to do so. They don’t frequent the places where these attacks occur. They don’t send their kids to public school. They don’t shop at WalMart, go to public nightclubs, attend concerts with the masses. This just isn’t relevant to them.