Mercedes Dchneider found and posted a wonderful high school graduation speech by an emergency room physician in Indiana.
“You’re a Doctor? I Thought You Were Stupid”: Stellar Grad Speech by Indy ER Physician
Dr. Louis Profeta spoke to the graduating class at his alma mater, Borth Central High School in Indianapolis. He told them what a terrible student he had been in high school. He told them how he made the transition from adolescent slacker to ER doctor.
He began like this:
“In kindergarten, I got a prize in the science fair for painting Play-Doh black. I wedged plastic dinosaurs and saber-tooth tigers in it to make it look like the La Brea tar pits. I think it was in 4th grade when I won a ribbon in the Allisonville grade school pancake supper poster contest.
“And those two pinnacle moments pretty much sum up the entirety of my academic accolades in Washington Township schools, including all the way through high school.
“I got an F in high school chemistry, and an F in algebra and a bunch of C’s, a couple D’s and if it weren’t for gym and kings court singers, I doubt I would have gotten any A’s. Any kings court singers here? I was the jester in the madrigal dinner. I did a few other things. I was in junior spec, Reviewing the Situation, 1981 baby. I played trumpet in band — actually I was second to the last trumpet — which means I played exactly two notes in every song. Blaaamp blaaammp. Nobody ever saw my name on some academic kudos report sent out by the school and no parent ever uttered the words:
“Louis Profeta made honor roll, why can’t you?”
“And if I had to apply to college today at Indiana University, I would not get in….
“So years later, after college and medical school and residency, I found my way back practicing emergency medicine in the very same community and township I left and a remarkable thing happened. I started seeing old classmates and their families as patients and they would all say the same thing.
“You’re a doctor? I thought you were stupid. Can I see some ID, a diploma, something like that?””
Read it yourself.
Diane Ravitch's blog 
“I got an F in high school chemistry, and an F in algebra and a bunch of C’s, a couple D’s and if it weren’t for gym and kings court singers, I doubt I would have gotten any A’s.” – the very fact that he was not ashamed to say this on a graduation ceremony, and that he got supportive “ahhs” and “yaahs” says a lot about how people in this country think about education. Basically, he admitted that 13 years he spent in school were completely useless, either because he was incapable to learn (what did Roy said in another thread, not mature enough?) or because his teachers failed him. But that’s ok, ultimately he became someone, he is a doctor now. Nowadays he does not need basic algebra to calculate a solution for IV injection, the machine does it for him.
The miracle stories like his, like Bill Gates who dropped college and became a billionaire, perpetuate the American Dream myth. These stories are the reason why the poor do not revolt – they still think that they will make it, just like this dude, and when they do, they would not want to pay 90% taxes, no siree, they would fly their jets and ride their Cadillacs, and screw everyone else.
This is good propaganda.
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This is painful to type, but I agree with you. Well said.
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I think the speech is a useful antidote to meritocracy and fatalism based on test scores and grades. I don’t think the message is that anyone can pull themselves up by their bootstraps but that one should not ever give up.
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I take the speech the way Diane did, I guess. I liked it – a lot. The author sounds like the kind of doctor I’d want to run into if I find myself in an ER -which I have. (Most of us will end up there at some point, of course, either for our own needs or with loved ones.)
Knowledge and expertise always matters -BIG time. But a healthy dose of wisdom goes a long way, too, when you find yourself in a hospital at 2 a.m. standing knee deep in a tidal rush of fear.
Back in 2011 I suddenly found myself standing in the middle of the night beside my wife in the ER after she had a stroke. Her age, the textbook, the algorithm led the doctor to tell me she was only suffering from a bad sinus infection. But when I put up a fight, thank God the doctor had the wisdom to back off, listen to me and then reconsider his judgement. Me, who never spent a moment in medical school. What I heard from my wife, what I saw, well, it was obvious.
I’m also amazed at Mercedes. If I read it correctly, she had 140 seniors in her classroom this year. I don’t know how she finds time to do all that teaching and still turn in such great work researching and commenting on education.
These are extraordinary individuals, Mercedes and Dr, Profeta. They give me hope at a time when our electoral system has elevated a dangerous fool to lead our nation.
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John: I agree completely with you, “They give me hope at a time when our electoral system has elevated a dangerous fool to lead our nation.”
This cartoonist got a new boss at the Pittsburgh Gazette and was fired for making fun of Trump. [He says he will keep fighting this president.] I’ve seen a number of this fellows cartoons and think they’re great!
…………………………..
Opinion | I Was Fired for Making Fun of Trump | USA News, Latest USA News | Vidohub.Com
in News, USA News, World News June 15, 20189 Views
After 25 years because the editorial cartoonist for The Pittsburgh Put up-Gazette, I used to be fired on Thursday.
I blame Donald Trump.
Effectively, type of.
I ought to’ve seen it coming. After I had lunch with my new boss a number of months in the past, he knowledgeable me that the paper’s writer believed that the editorial cartoonist was akin to an editorial author, and that his views ought to replicate the philosophy of the newspaper.
That was a brand new one to me… The paper could have taken an eraser to my cartoons. However I plan to be at my drawing desk on daily basis of this presidency.
http://philly.com/philly/news/rob-rogers-cartoonist-pittsburgh-post-gazette-fired-trump-20180614.html
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Pittsburgh Post-Gazette cartoonist speaks out about having his Trump cartoons killed
[view cartoons they wouldn’t publish]
http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news_top/donald-trump-political-cartoons-pittsburgh-post-gazette-rob-rogers-keith-burris-20180608.html?photo_10&modal=y
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JOHN,
When Mercedes says she had 140 seniors, I understand her to mean in five classes.
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GREAT cartoons, Carolmalyasia. And, distressing they were killed. Very distressing. I find way too many journalists take teachers to task for not having more of a backbone. So the editors as the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette ought to take a good look in the mirror.
And, Diane, yes, that’s the way I took it, too. Mercedes would have 140 students in, say, five classes.
Of course, that’s a lot of students in a public school nowadays. And, I’m sure there are readers here who had classrooms this year with more kids….many more.
I had 116 kids in my courses this year and I finally feel I can take a deep breath and relax for a moment. At times, I was whupped, what with the very significant needs of individual students today plus the technology that goes into teaching now.
I went through yesterday and deleted much of the huge pile of e-mail that had heaped up in my computer since September. I finally had the time to catch up. What a task. It made me WEARY just to read the headings And, this wasn’t all junk e-mail. Much of it involved important work me and and my colleagues had done on behalf of seniors, now set to graduate.
When I first started teaching I had a blackboard. On a special day I might break out some colored chalk..red, yellow and blue chalk. Blue was really cool. And, if someone in the office wanted to talk to me or a student, well, that person (or at least someone) had to get out of his or her chair and hike up the stairs. Perhaps I’d set up a projector and show a film once in a while.
I don’t think people in the non-teaching world understand how complicated the job has become. Teaching 140 students today is not what it was, even just five years ago. And, elementary classrooms….wow. That’s a whole different realm of complications. Deep, deep complexity…
So, congratulations to Mercedes and all the other teachers out there. Hats off to you.
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I think he was offering a message of hope and a reminder that your test scores and grades need not be a lifetime stigma.
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I couldn’t agree more, Dianne.
What this shows is the poverty of our ability to measure human potential and the changing nature of our society.
I taught. For some students, I was a good teacher, for others, not so good. I tried to accommodate different ‘learning styles’, but I could only approach an idea from so many angles. Tests gave me some ‘feedback’, and let me know that some students where probably not there to learn. Instead, they were in class because their parents wanted them to be there, or they were told they ‘had to have’ Physics. I created ‘levels’ so students could select the one best for them, and the ‘conceptual’ level (almost no math) became my most popular and (oddly) challenging course. In truth, it’s easy to hide behind an equation, but treating Physics as a series of concepts is not only helpful to students but enlightening to the teacher. It opens up the story of Western Thought and it’s impact upon Western Civilization.
I hated giving grades. Why was I forced to do it? Did Socrates give grades?
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I confess: I was really good at test-taking. I got excellent grades. Along with three others in my graduating class of 400 in Houston, I was valedictorian. Because scores and grades were good for me, I believed in them. It took many years in my life to recognize that academic achievement is only one kind of success. Others are far better than me on many dimensions. I could list all my flaws, but they are too many to list.
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Daedalus wrote:
“Tests gave me some ‘feedback’, and let me know that some students where probably not there to learn.”
And that is one of the main problems with testing students. The assessments and tests should not be for the teacher but for the students to learn more about where they are in their own process of learning. Generally, I knew from classroom interactions which students knew what. Assessments should not be for the teacher’s usage but for the students’.
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I am going to respecfully disagree with some of what was said (or perhaps the implications and tone he exudes) by Dr. Profeta in that I will continue to disagree with people who voted for Trump and still support him . . . I will not like too much or befriend people who are okay with the elimination of SS, Medicare, Medicaid, and the privatization of public schools, people who are just fine with the status quote of the GOP and Democrats. Of course, I’m not out to behave nastily or aggressively toward such people either. I believe in social skills, as they are appropriately extolled by this good doctor.
Yes, I will listen to those who disagree with me and be respectful , but I will spend far more time banding together with the like minded and fighting the good fight. I am not interested in holding hands and singing Cumba-ya when there is a battle of big fat class warfare going on right now, and I don’t need to waste my time losing myself in the diversity of POV when I can be spending the time and precious energy fighting the good fight (without, of course, condescending to people who don’t agree with me or who are far less informed than me).
I have learned big time that is is superior to educate people than to condescend to their stupidity and ignorance. This is a phenomenon I find to exist in so many countries, Europe included, but is especially endemic and intense here.
Thank goodness the doctor emphasizes the acquisition of knowledge.
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Tough, tough call -at least for me. (Though very often I find it feeling so very EASY on the surface…) Strange!
Yeah, I know some people who are real IDIOTS who voted for Trump. Idiots and RACISTS. Reprehensible people. These are the “deplorables”. (Wow. I just looked up the Hillary quote. It was September 9, 2016, when she used that word. It seems like such a long, long time ago now. My God, not even two years have gone by.)
But then I also have good friends and even loved ones who pulled the lever for the current president. WHAT THE HELL? These are wonderful, intelligent people who I like and even admire -for other things they do in their lives. Some people I LOVE.
So, yeah, I agree with you, Norwegian Filmmaker. I agree, we should “fight the good fight.” But then I find myself ripping apart my own “house”, so to speak, as part of this good fight. And, you know, like Lincoln said about a house divided…
Hating people you love. What a crazy thing this election has done to our country. Or maybe it’s just exposed some sort of craziness that’s been there for many years, lurking beneath the surface…? Perhaps getting it all out into the open, into the sunlight, will eventually lead us to some better place? I hope so.
It’s like a civil war of ideas going on right now. Ideas -plus for many people a very dangerous brew of emotion, fears, age-old prejudice and tragically misplaced anger, all AMPLIFIED by incredible new technology with effects that we don’t even fully comprehend yet.
What a mess.
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John O,
I agree. This is indeed a civil war of ideas. Unlike the Civil War, there were people deriving tangible economic benefits from slavery. This, of course, does not excuse the reprehensible institution of slavery.
But in this new war, those who vote for Trump and his ilk do not stand to benefit from anything; in fact, they will lose big time whatever basic, modest safety nets that were established about 80 years ago. It is unacceptable. If there is less love and family and friends to have, then so be it. It’s a schism worth the greater good of society.
For me, it’s not hating the people per se, but it is hating the lack of awareness, the stupidity, and the ignorance. People love labels and personalities. “I’m a this or they because the official I vote for is (adjective), (adjective), and very (adjective).”
Meantime, people are glued to labels and PR personalities manufactured by publicists and campaign managers instead the actual governing record the officials put into office. This explains why Paul Ryan and McConnell kept on getting re-elected.
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I am fortunate to live in a like-minded bubble where I do not encounter friends/ relatives who voted for Trump. But I remember well the days when clan gatherings were freckled w/reactionaries [dead now ;-)], & we learned how to debate intelligently w/o coming to blows or creating feuds – blood was always thickest [or water married to blood]. And I check my tongue among gatherings of friendly acquaintances just in case. Mine is a liberal-leaning community, so anti-Trump cracks among neighbors, choristers, et al serve only to isolate & embarrass the aleady-defensive Trumpistas.
I don’t think we have to do a lot of soul-searching or backbends to understand that Trump-voters we otherwise like are not hiding hateful agendas, they are mostly folks who feel the pinch of winnowed middle-class, rue jobs lost to globalism & immigration – bought into a pack of lies & stick w/it out of “cognitive dissonance”.
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“middle-class, rue jobs lost to globalism & immigration”
I’m sure this is what most people think but a recent reliable study discovered that most of the lost jobs have been automated. I wonder why the rest of the media isn’t correcting that misconception.
https://www.ft.com/content/dec677c0-b7e6-11e6-ba85-95d1533d9a62
Financial Times — Most US manufacturing jobs lost to technology, not trade.
And according to another report, that automation could eliminate another 73 million jobs by 2030.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2017/11/29/automation-could-kill-73-million-u-s-jobs-2030/899878001/
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I also think Trump voters don’t know his life story—a story of fraud, bankruptcy, cheating working people, constant boasting, and shameless womanizing.
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I think Trump’s supporters are avid Fox News watchers (and/or the Sinclair Broadcast Group) and they don’t watch the other news outlets because they have willingly been programmed to not trust the other news that might be allegedly biased but does all they can to NOT deliberately lie and mislead.
Fox News deliberately lies and misleads and so doe Sinclair.
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John O, Diane, Bethtree and Lloyd,
I agree with all that you have to say.
Trump voters got what they wanted to hear based on how much they were suffering and have become disenfranchised. They are not bad people. They are suffering and desperate and were tossed a bone of hope. When we’re starving, we don’t examine what we ingest.
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Norwegian: I don’t understand why Trump voters, the wealthy well-fed ones, don’t rebel against this inhumanitarian behavior? Is this justifiable due to all the other great things Trump is doing? [I’m trying to figure out what they are thinking. I personally don’t see anything great about what he is doing.] Perhaps this is all part of the ‘fake news’ that is circulating. (???) Are immigrants going against the law and therefore, taking their children away is perfectly alright? How do Trump supports justify this? [Feel free to answer if there are any Trump supporters who wish to speak out.]
‘America is better than this’: A doctor raises concerns after visiting shelter for migrant children..WaPo
The pediatrician said workers were doing their best to meet the children’s basic needs. But they could not pick up or touch the children, or get their parents. “The really basic, foundational needs of having trust in adults as a young child was not being met. That contradicts everything we know that the kids need to build their health,” she said.
By Kristine Phillips
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I had to sleep on this one from our Norwegian Filmmaker: “They (NF meant Trump’s supporters) are not bad people. They are suffering and desperate and were tossed a bone of hope.”
Does that mean the members of the KKK are not bad people?
Does that mean the members of the American Nazi Party are not bad people?
Does that mean America’s white supremacists that have come out in support of Trump are not bad people?
Does that mean all the Americans that support Trump and think MAGA means “Make American White Again” or not bad people?
Does that mean all the Americans that agree with Roy Moore, who wants to get rid of all but the first ten amendments to the U.S. Constitution are not bad people?
All of the above, and more, are probably hard-working Americans and most of them are probably struggling financially too. Just because someone is a racist doesn’t mean they don’t work hard to earn money.
“Inside the Minds of Hardcore Trump Supporters
“New research finds the president’s earliest and strongest followers embody a particularly belligerent strain of authoritarian thinking.”
https://psmag.com/news/inside-the-minds-of-hardcore-trump-supporters
Let’s not forget that without the support of many hard-working Germans that thought they were good people because they were willing to work hard, the same Germans that deliberately ignored the horrors the Nazis were responsible for, Hitler would have never become the leader of Germany and caused so much suffering and death.
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Much to think about. Thanks. Hope you all had a chance to get outside today at least for a while. It was a beautiful, June day in this corner of New York State.
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Let me very clear.
NOT all Trump voters are bad people. Some are; I was referring to the ones who have been left way behind in the economic cycles, which is a burgeoning and growing number of people in the USA. They have voted against their interests because they were told the things they wanted to hear out of desperation. It becomes easy if some of them were to give into scapegoating other groups, but that, of course, is inexcusable and unacceptable.
All I’m saying is that people are human and fragile, and they will become their worst sometimes if the right conditions prevail. Inequality and economic disenfranchisement can bring out the best and the worst in people. When I think of the worst, I think of looking at Germany 79 years ago, just as one of many examples. When I think of the best, I think of the current Poor People’s Campaign and Reverend Barbara.
Do you know what I mean, Lloyd?
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Lloyd understands — people can justify anything when they are miserable and/or angry enough.
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Lloyd, as a Vietnam veteran, do you consider yourself “good people”?
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Back Again, I don’t decide if I’m “Good People”. That label is up to others that know me or don’t know me. And I’m sure there are people that think I’m good and others that don’t. For sure, my first wife doesn’t think I’m good people.
And what does being a Vietnam Vet have to do with being a “good person”?
I spent one tour of duty in Vietnam in 1966, along with 2,709,918 other Americans that fought in that war during the 19 years it lasted. In addition, in 1966, only 26-percent of Americans thought the war was a mistake.
When I was sent over there, the Vietnam war was popular in the U.S. Later, it started to become unpopular and it took until August of 1868 for more than half of Americans to turn against that war.
But that should not count as part of my decisions to join the Marines, because I first heard about LBJ’s escalation in boot camp. I didn’t join the Marines to go fight in Vietnam. I had other reasons that had nothing to do with any war.
https://www.shmoop.com/vietnam-war/statistics.html
And what about the fact that I have lived the rest of my life outside of that one tour in Vietnam and that adds up to 72 years?
What about you, Back Again. — If you live your life by the following words most or all of the time, does that mean you are probably “good people”?
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. A command based on words of Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount: “All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them.” The Mosaic law contains a parallel commandment: “Whatever is hurtful to you, do not do to any other person.”
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Lloyd L – I think you have it, bringing up automation. This is the element that most Trumpistas blink at, cuz it hits too close to home.
I can tell you how it hits my millennial kids — they are musicians/ composers/ trained audiotechs who have watched their industry diminish over 20 yrs as they moved into the field. Their training would have guaranteed them steady work 1980-2000 (while they were still in K12). Then miniaturization accelerated, & with that, eqpt that would once have been the province of major studios became accessible to hisch kids.
Of course hisch kids, & most performing artists do not have their talent/ training. But then the whole performing-artists industry has diminished — there are no more dominant ‘record-labels’ – wannabes must tour constantly & plump their bands via social media in global competition. The expertise my kids have to sell today is still viable, but on a much smaller, gig-economy scale.
I suspect there are many once [circa 1980]-viable, middle-class careers which parallel those of my kids’. How about my father-in-law’s 40-yr printing career, which due to his smarts & prowess, he was able to pursue beyond massive layoffs to the transition to computers? How about graphic arts, another onetime middle-class living that has been reduced to a gig-career by automation? I’m talking millennials here: my sis has 4 of them, & only one has a steady middle-class job as an engr for a mid-western mfr, the other 3 are (a)Post Office, (b)caterer, (3)waiter – despite various, interesting BA’s.
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I have been surprised by a few of my students that presented as “slow learners” in elementary school. The first was a timid, Haitian third grader that did not speak for most of the first year. He eventually did learn, but he was not too motivated. Today, he owns two successful restaurants, and he sells a proprietary blend of Caribbean spices on Amazon. The second was a Russian American student from a middle class family. He had a hard time adjusting to early elementary school as he stayed home with his mother only speaking Russian and did not attend preschool. He stayed in ESL and compensatory reading for several years. When I ran into his mother many years later, she told me that her son had graduated from Columbia with a degree in engineering. He had a good job with an engineering firm in NYC. Third, a sweet, smart former student grew up and became a drug dealer. He was sent to jail for stealing a woman’s purse.
These types of students remind us that we should not make snap judgments about students and their potential. I believe that our country should be about second chances. Rapper and business mogul, Jay-Z, started out as a drug dealer in Brooklyn. There are late bloomers, and young people that may take several years to find their way. That is why we need to provide young people with as much opportunity as possible. There are also those that seem to have good potential that will throw it away.
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Read the whole speech. It sends a very profound message. Dr. Profeta does not advocate being a slacker, instead it is a call to make learning and knowledge, both in and out of school, one of the cornerstones of a successful future. Very positive and uplifting for any young student not blessed with the gift of supportive parents who value education and understand the importance of high expectations that they are willing to back up.
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You are so right.
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When I was seven, my mother was told by experts in the local public school district that I was retarded and would never learn to read and write. I was held back to repeat 1st grade. I’m sure I was put on some list so I’d never end up in a college prep class. The only math I took in high school was basic math. Ignoring the verdict of the so-called experts that were not classroom teachers (sounds familiar), my mother asked my 2nd first-grade teacher for help and advice. With that help, I learned to read.
And how many teens graduate from high school with a 0.94 GPA? That was me.
Some of us are late bloomers and the reasons for this differ but poverty is probably a major factor. I was born into a family living in poverty and both of my parents were high school dropouts and my dad was an alcoholic and a gambler. They could read and as a child growing up, I saw them reading all the time in our cigarette smoke filled living room.
My dad was an addicted smoker almost to the end of his life when his lungs finally stopped working.
Fast forward a few decades through the Marines and Vietnam, college on the GI Bill earning three college degrees: AS, BA, MFA and a teaching credential followed by thirty years in the classroom. By the time I was ten years old I was an avid reader and now I write and publish award-winning books that have sold tens of thousands of copies.
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Funny you should mention ‘Basic Math’
I think I had an epiphany in a ‘Basic Math’ course that applies to this discussion.
In grade school, I was ‘good’ in math… not quite as good as one other student, but good enough to ‘test’ well above my ‘grade level’. In High School, I was close to the top and, thus, placed in one of the early ‘advanced placement’ calculus classes with a rather uninspiring (for me) teacher who proclaimed, when I came in third on a Statewide ‘standardized’ test, that she had no idea how that could possibly have happened. (She ‘flunked me out’ of that class at the semester by counting every single ‘inequality statement’ wrong NOT because my statements were incorrect, but because I had the ‘arrow’ pointing from right to left instead of from left to right [or something like that]).
From there, I went to an ‘Institute of Technology’ and majored in Astronomy, and then to graduate school in physics. Eventually at about age 28, I decided that I really wanted to teach… took certification courses at the Graduate level, and started as a science teacher in High School.
But, I was also ‘certified’ in math. When my school messed around so long that they discovered that there were no longer any certified candidates available for their open math position, they opened the year with the guy who supervised student teachers at the local college doing a math class (basic math) with the rest of the High School department picking up the ‘slack’.
It was a joke. The students gave him a week, then began to eat him alive. In week three, he brought in his wife to ‘help’. In week 4, he quit.
Since I was ‘certified’, I suddenly became part of the ‘math dept’, taking over some of the surplus, but also the ‘basic math’ kids. I lost my physics students.
The ‘basic math’ kids and I hit it off pretty quickly. We both had the same opinion concerning ‘math’. As a ‘science guy’, I always considered math to be a game, like chess. Fun to play, maybe, but only useful so far as it informs our experience. Most High School math has almost no connection with the life of a High School student. Therefore, only a game-nut would find it ‘interesting’.
I did have one advantage… These kids had flunked every single math course they had taken in High School and needed to pass mine as their ‘last chance’ to graduate. However, I had not written the curriculum, nor the final exam. And, so, it was a team effort to get us through. In the end, every single kid passed, and I came to understand that ‘lower level’ students had amazing potential. For the most part, they didn’t ‘fail’, but our system failed to discover and nurture the unique lessons that those ‘failing’ students could teach the rest of us.
That ‘Basic Math’ class informed my view of humanity, and solidified my dedication to teaching for the rest of my career (and a bit beyond).
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“Most High School math has almost no connection with the life of a High School student.” – School should be fun, right? Singing math, dancing physics, cooking chemistry – anything to keeps the darn kids interested. At the same time the Chinese complete a 9-hour test, which will define their future. The result of this test is now being accepted by some American colleges, so much for leveling the playing field by making SAT/ACT optional – https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/13/world/asia/china-gaokao-new-hampshire.html
I bet that you will never hear “I had F in math, now I am a doctor” on a graduation day in a Chinese school. The Chinese do not believe in one in a million miracle, they believe in hard work right from the start.
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In China, a few super pressurized, high stakes tests are used to label most of the children as failures and then those children are out … I repeat, out. Wealthy Chinese families have an option when their children don’t get into senior high school or college. Those families sent tier children to college in the UK, Canada, the EU and the US. In fact, the current, for life president of China sent his daughter to the US to attend college. I wonder if she failed the high-stakes do or die test to get into one of China’s top colleges. Is that why China’s president sent his daughter to Harvard?
In addition, there is a debate in China to do away with those high stakes tests or water them down so they aren’t as significant as they have been used for about two thousand years.
“In stark contrast is the situation in China, where a national, government-administered, two-day exam called the gaokao pretty much entirely determines each student’s academic and professional future. For example:
http://blog.socrato.com/high-stakes-standardized-testing-in-china/
The China Daily reports that 43 percent o China’s high school graduates are admitted to colleges.
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2017-10/17/content_33370581.htm
“China has the largest education system in the world.
With almost 260 million students and over 15 million
teachers in about 514 000 schools (National Bureau of
Statistics of China, 2014), excluding graduate education
institutions, China’s education system is not only
immense but diverse. Education is state-run, with little
involvement of private providers in the school sector, and
increasingly decentralised.”
Click to access Education-in-China-a-snapshot.pdf
Last, but not least, the United States is not China just like China is not the United States.
In addition, China is increasing its investment in its public education system and supporting its teachers while the United States is destroying its public education system and demonizing and punishing its teachers, destroying the profession.
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Read Yong Zhao’s book “Who Is Afraid of the Big Bad Dragon?” about Chinese education.
The big things there are incessant test prep and cheating
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The striving Chinese live in a pressure cooker that keeps them from bringing shame to their family. While America has its own type of pressure cooker, there are more options for young people here. As a result, China has a very high suicide rate. It is particularly high among young adults. http://www.asiaone.com/health/chinas-suicide-rate-among-highest-world
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The success of any educational systems is in its fruits. The Chinese system may be demanding, but they are increasingly ready for a rapidly changing world and are about to leave the U.S. in the dust. Check out the trends in patents, trademarks and industrial design:
http://www.wipo.int/pressroom/en/articles/2018/article_0002.html
BTW Back Again, I agree with you. It is as if the idea of excellence is something shameful in this country. Be careful what you wish for.
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Abby,
Read Yong Zhao’s book, “Who’s Afraid of the Big Bad Dragon?”
They don’t have excellent education. They have intense pressure to pass tests. Lots of test prep. And cheating.
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In China, cheating on those two-or-three high stakes tests has become a science.
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Try this Google Image search:
“Chinese test cheats”
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BackAgain: “I bet that you will never hear “I had F in math, now I am a doctor” on a graduation day in a Chinese school. The Chinese do not believe in one in a million miracle, they believe in hard work right from the start.”
First of all Profeta is hardly a one-in-a-million miracle, he’s just a guy who settled on life goals after K12 then worked hard to attain them. I know at least a dozen such people personally, among them one of my brothers. Though ed-reformers would like to paint it so, it has never been true in American society that you have to jump through x hoops in y order within z years to make a successful career. Ergo you don’t have to score ‘proficient’ on all your NCLB/ RTTT/ ESSA tests – corollary: those who don’t are not doomed to a life of min-wage jobs – nor is a school w/only x% scoring proficient ‘failing’.
Secondly, what the Chinese actually believe is they’d better prep every yr from age 5 for that 9-hr test, because if they fail it, all bets are off. Is that the system you want us to emulate?
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Don’t forget the test cheating that is common in China, according to Yong Zhao
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Diane,
Test cheating and test generated suicide are very common in China.
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It’s true that some of the suicides in China are from the stress caused by these very high stakes tests, but China’s suicide rate is 10 per 100k vs. 14.3 per 100k in the US.
How many of America’s children are also killing themselves over high stakes tests?
http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/suicide-rate-by-country/
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“Don’t forget the test cheating that is common in China” – If I google for “school test erasure cheating” what will come up?
The spreading of hearsay and promulgating of denigrating comments about a culture that makes pretty much everything that is sold nowadays in the U.S. does not look good on you.
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BackAgain: Cheating happens in schools in the US when the pressure gets too heavy and a school’s existence is at stake. Cheating takes place in China when a whole student’s future life is at stake.
I”m not denigrating either culture. Both have problems with ‘high stakes testing’.
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Back Again,
Read Yong Zhao’s book “Who’s Afraid of the Big Bad Dragon?” Students’s Test scores determine their lives. There are no second chances. There is an entire town where people send their children to live and prepare for the tests. On the test itself, cheating is rampant. When officials tried to stop the cheating, thousands of students rioted and said they had a “right” to cheat.
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Diane,
I have read Zhao’s book. Unfortunately, it doesn’t match with current reality. This country can continue to deal in delusions or look around at reality. The Chinese are leading in environmental reforms (they took the world’s plastic and dumped it in the ocean – no longer. Now countries are responsible for their own plastic waste) -they are also leading in alternative sources of energy. In the meantime, China has gained all of our industrial secrets due to corporate greed. Now they are poised to take over – they don’t need us anymore!
By the way, I coach an enrichment math team and attended the state finals. The students who made state were 90% Asian. Why?? Because they cheated?? Please!
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Abby, I think they were referring to Chinese students cheating on the Gaokao to get into college.
The cheating must be serious or the China Daily wouldn’t have run this piece?
“Chinese authorities are imposing strict measures to prevent cheating in this year’s test－known as the gaokao－and those who cheat could get three to seven years in prison.”
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2016-06/07/content_25631796.htm
I don’t think anyone wrote a comment indicating that Chinese students don’t learn because they cheat. No, the opposite would be true. Chinese students work so hard and study so much that they have little time for a social life.
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I just returned from China in February. While there, I had no access to the Internet. Blocked.
My guide told me her family had to pay for her schooling and medical care.
A surveillance state.
There is no question where I would rather live.
What about you, Abby?
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Diane,
Yes, China has censorship but I know people (Americans) who live and work there that know how to get around the censorship. I’m told it is not easy and can be frustrating, and you never know when the censors will find that hole in their wall and plug it. When they do, a window opens on your screen with a flashing warning not to do it again.
The CCP also censors books they don’t want their people exposed to but there is also a black market for these books. All of Anchee Min’s, my former wife if 16 years and we are still friends, books are blacklisted in China but she had no problem finding copies in Mandarin and was impressed by the quality. Her books are published in more than 30 languages but not in Mandarin.
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True, but I still prefer to live here,not there.
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Even if I wanted to, I can’t live there. The Chinese have fallen in love with owning cars
(the most popular brand is GM’s Buick) and the pollution and gridlock are worse now than they were in 2008, and it was bad back then.
Try crossing an intersection. Drivers in China ignore the green and the red lights. Major intersections have open-air raised walkways with escalators to help pedestrians avoid being run over. You go up to cross a very busy street where the drivers never seem to stop and then take another escalator down on the other side.
One of my American friends that lives and works in Shanghai says he goes to work on too many mornings where the thick air looks like fallout from a nuclear war. Everyone is wearing masks.
I think that’s the reason China leads the world in clean energy. They are struggling to reverse the pollution before China becomes unlivable.
Then there is the risk that the Chinese will get fed up with meddling foreigners and do what they’ve done before several times throughout their history going back centuries — and slaughter them all.
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Lloyd: “The Chinese have fallen in love with owning cars” I read that the problem is people in their 50’s and 60’s who are buying cars for the first time and driving them with no training. They are a major reason traffic is so bad.
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Makes sense
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Keep in mind that you are not a human person. You are human capital. Your value is determined by your output minus the cost of keeping you working. The cause behind 21st century eugenics, er, I mean meritocracy, er, I mean education reform is to determine your worth in the cradle for the purpose of maximizing your value ’till the grave. Big data is used in algorithms that measure your value added. The data are immutable. The data are irrefutable. You ARE your data. If you learn and grow and change for the better after school, that’s great, as long as it helps your company’s bottom line. Learn how to program the robot that will one day replace you. Irregardless of any lifelong curiosity, the fact remains, however, that your test scores and other data in school determine your future value, so if you aren’t proficient, you have no value. Remember that. Keep it in mind, and go make some billionaire CEO some more money. Daddy needs a bigger super yacht.
Now, with all my sarcasm toward testing and Competency (computer) Based Education spent, let me say how deeply moved I was by this speech. Be sure to read the whole thing, everyone. Diane, you made me shed tears twice today. I woke up before sunrise and cried when I read about the inconsolable child separated from her parents by the Trump administration. I went back to bed. I awoke again a couple hours later and moistened my eyes a second time reading this graduation speech, tears of joy. Thing of beauty!
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THIS is the best graduation speech of the year. This young man from Plano, Texas, is autistic and generally non-verbal. Watch this:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/06/14/student-autism-who-rarely-speaks-gives-graduation-speech/700656002/
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“I played trumpet in band — actually I was second to the last trumpet — which means I played exactly two notes in every song. Blaaamp blaaammp. ”
I’m sorry, but as a retired beginning band teacher I had to chuckle. I did hear some really good playing and some who struggled.
It is wonderful that Dr. Louis Profeta overcame all of this and turned out to be an excellent doctor. Schools should never label kids as losers, and that is just what standardized tests to…year after year after year. They beat kids down so far that many have no self esteem left. How sad that this continues as the way to ‘improve’ education for all. BS.
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“Schools should never label kids as losers, and that is just what standardized tests do…year after year after year.”
Exactly, Carol!
From my summary of Wilson’s work:
“So the mark [grade/test score] becomes part of the story about yourself and with sufficient repetitions becomes true: true because those who know, those in authority, say it is true; true because the society in which you live legitimates this authority; true because your cultural habitus makes it difficult for you to perceive, conceive and integrate those aspects of your experience that contradict the story; true because in acting out your story, which now includes the mark and its meaning, the social truth that created it is confirmed; true because if your mark is high you are consistently rewarded, so that your voice becomes a voice of authority in the power-knowledge discourses that reproduce the structure that helped to produce you; true because if your mark is low your voice becomes muted and confirms your lower position in the social hierarchy; true finally because that success or failure confirms that mark that implicitly predicted the now self-evident consequences. And so the circle is complete.” (Wilson’s writing)
In other words students “internalize” what those “marks” (grades/test scores) mean, and since the vast majority of the students have not developed the mental skills to counteract what the “authorities” say, they accept as “natural and normal” that “story/description” of them. Although paradoxical in a sense, the “I’m an “A” student” is almost as harmful as “I’m an ‘F’ student” in hindering students becoming independent, critical and free thinkers. And having independent, critical and free thinkers is a threat to the current socio-economic structure of society. (my commentary)
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I LOVE this man!!! What a gift. The La Brea Tar Pitts, wow!!!
I had a similar poor academic life. In my 50’s I took the GRE and aced it. I had always scored well on standardized (bubbled in) tests. They were very focused and I needed that. I found my passion in librarianship and sailed through.
Every child has promise. We owe it to them to nurture it.
I also agree with the doctor’s thoughts on random knowledge. That’s the stuff that engages us. We connect to it and thus we learn. That’s what it’s all about.
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“I had always scored well on standardized (bubbled in) tests. They were very focused and I needed that.” This reminds me of something a friend told me about my eldest – when he was just 4, in a Montessori program, & I was relaying his issues. She was a parent of same-aged child — and also a grad of Bank St Early Childhood program. She said, “He just needs a desk. He’ll do better in structured K.” She was right!
Every child is different. My eldest was ‘different,’ & a desk didn’t always do it for him. But her insight taught me to be sensitive to his learning needs.
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my best friend in high school struggled & was told by her guidance counselor that she was not college material – she finished college & ultimately earned a masters at UW-Madison – my early personal example that the system couldn’t get it right has influenced ALL of my actions as a teacher – NEVER give up on your kids!
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“my early personal example that the system couldn’t get it right has influenced ALL of my actions as a teacher – NEVER give up on your kids!”
Exactly! Me too! Except past tense.
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former cheesehead: My high school counselor told me that I wasn’t smart enough to go to college. She said my parents were too poor to afford college and to give up the idea. I graduated honors with my Bachelor’s degree and high honors with my Master’s. I was a member of the honor society in high school. I don’t know what that counselors problem was.
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