Kate Raymond of the University of Oklahoma challenges the claim by Mate Weirdl of the University of Tennessee that the Common Core is deeply flawed in the early grades.
As a mathematics educator, I was disturbed by recent comments made by Dr. Mate Wierdl on your blog site and felt the need to contact you to respond, educator to educator.
It is interesting to me that Dr. Wierdl ended this comment by saying he is not an expert on ELA; implying that he is an expert on the teaching and learning of mathematics. While Dr. Wierdl is a mathematics Ph.D., nowhere could I find any reference to education he has received or research he has done on teaching and learning.
Perhaps if he had such an education, he might have avoided some elementary mistakes he made in his critique of the common core. While I am by no means a proponent of, or an expert in, common core mathematics, the baseless and inaccurate assumptions Dr. Wierdl only serves to muddy the waters when it comes to a discussion of standards, curriculum and assessment in mathematics education. In large part, this is because Dr. Wierdl fails to distinguish between standards (which can generally be thought of as goals), curriculum (the experiences of students) and assessment (a measure of students’ understandings). Most fundamentally, Dr. Wierdl has conflated Common Core Standards with the standardized tests referred to in the article that compares Finland and the US. The tests referred to in that article were not written by the creators of common core, and the literature in mathematics education already documents that they are not well aligned with the intentions or the content of common core; the article itself references this problem when it speaks to the fact that Pearson, a for profit company, developed both textbooks series and standardized tests for the state of New York. So to critique the common core based on these tests is simply illegitimate.
More disturbing however, Dr. Wierdl makes several assumptions that, had he had an education in teaching and learning, he might have avoided. For example, he states that young children can intuitively understand the difference between 12 and 21. While I am sure this was intuitive for him as a young student, research shows that for the vast majority of students, this is not at all intuitive. Young children often see the difference between these two numbers as akin to something like * # verses # *.
Would you necessarily see these two as fundamentally differently? Would you intuitively know that one is larger than the other? As the article that Dr. Wierdl points out, students are just learning to read in grade one; that includes learning to read numbers. Many mathematics standards, including Finland’s, as it turns out, place an emphasis on “properties of numbers” and “the use of manipulatives to break down and assemble numbers” (language I quote from a description of the Finnish mathematics standards, see http://timssandpirls.bc.edu/timss2015/encyclopedia/countries/finland/the-mathematics-curriculum-in-primary-and-lower-secondary-grades/) in order to help students build a schema for understanding numbers. While many (but not all) students may be able to successfully add relatively small numbers without such a schema, those who do not begin to have difficulty in adding and/or multiplying large numbers. For example, if asked to add 3472 and 1248, students without such schema struggle to remember when to “carry” (or “borrow”, for subtraction), because they have not build the concept that 2 and 8 make one whole ten (so that they can carry a one to the tens place) or that that carried ten, the 70 in the first number and the 40 in the second number combine to be one whole hundred and two extra tens, so that a 2 should be placed in the tens column while a 1 is carried to the hundreds column.
The difficulties become even more pronounced when students are asked to multiply 54 times 19. I would imagine Dr. Wierdl, like many mathematicians, is fluent enough to understand that he can multiply this in a number of ways, including multiplying 54 by 20 (which is a much more simple problem due to the round number) and subtract 54 to get 1080-54= 1026, rather than a long step by step procedure which often makes very little sense to young children. I imagine that Dr. Wierdl finds such flexibility with numbers intuitive, but research shows most students do not. However, students’ ability to be flexible with numbers can be greatly improved if they learn to communicate mathematical thinking. Vygotsky’s social constructivist theories of learning have been proven time and again in mathematics education research; students learn by reflecting on their own thinking and the mathematical thinking of others. This is reflected in Common Core and other standards by emphasizing the development of students abilities to communicate mathematically, a skill by which Dr. Wierdl makes a living. However, contrary to Dr. Wierdl’s assertion, I challenge anyone to find a set of standards that requires students to “explain the difference every time they see it”.
Given all of that, I do agree that “fake” real life questions are a significant problem in US mathematics instruction. However, while standards promote application of mathematics to real problems, nowhere do the standards promote the use of contrived “fake” real life scenarios. Those scenarios are largely the result of textbooks (which are generally not developed by writers of standards) and teachers who do not have the educational background or mathematical strength to apply mathematics in more authentic and interesting ways. This is again a problem with the curriculum, not the standards, and one that is being addressed by many leading experts in mathematics education (see https://www.ted.com/talks/dan_meyer_math_curriculum_makeover, for example).
While I have a Master’s degree in mathematics, I would not presume to present myself as an expert in the field of mathematics. Since Dr. Wierdl has no background in education, I would respectfully ask that he do the same and that the community at large be wary of opinions put forth by ‘experts’ who have no background in teaching and learning.
Sincerely,
Dr. Kate Raymond
Kate Raymond, PhD
Department of Instructional Leadership and Academic Curriculum
Mathematics Education
University of Oklahoma
Jeannine Rainbolt College of Education
820 Van Vleet Oval, ECH 114
Norman, OK, 73071
kate.m.raymond@ou.edu

“and the literature in mathematics education already documents that they are not well aligned with the intentions or the content of common core; the article itself references this problem when it speaks to the fact that Pearson, a for profit company, developed both textbooks series and standardized tests for the state of New York”
So the problem is a blog comment, not that the whole state of New York and Pearson has blown the standards?
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Point taken. But at long last I’ve lost patience with the experts who have done so much damage to education and those who have failed to right the damages. More people, experts or not, who have sufficient experience and wisdom, as teachers or parents, need to weigh in.
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Ms. Raymond
From your ivory tower in Oklahoma to the 3 to 8 classrooms of NYS and the 3 million children held hostage to testing. Wow! Let me help you out: NYS won $700 million in the USDOE contest known as RTTT. In order to win, states were required to link CC test scores to teacher evaluations (APPR). With this one irrational demand, Arne Duncan corrupted and debased 3 to 8 classroom teaching and learning in ways that you probably cannot imagine. These were not just high stakes tests. they were career threatening; the psychological impacts of this caveat were debilitating.
“So to critique the common core based on these tests is simply illegitimate.”
Under RTTT and APPR, the only CC math standards that mattered were those that were tested. The TEST became the de-facto CURRICULUM. The fact that Pearson wrote the tests is a straw man argument. Those who write educational standards never write the tests. What makes you think that the test writers for PARCC or SBAC did any better. They all sucked because the standards sucked. As a consultant test writer (Measured Progress), I can say this unequivocally: as written, the CC standards were a test writer’s worst nightmare. The CC standards have been, in every sense of the word, an abject FAILURE. If the standards were developmentally appropriate and well written, they never would have been repeatedly “unpacked” so poorly.
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I know of a very successful home school math curriculum, which is at least two decades old. About five years ago it was aligned with Common Core, which required some minimal rehashing of existing material between grades, and adding some topics that they did not have. By and large, the program remained the same, very successful. I used ideas in this program in my own practice. So, the content and the spirit of the program has not changed, despite Common Core alignment. On the other hand, there are other 20-year old programs that have been crappy and still are crappy despite the Common Core re-labelling.
Ultimately, it is not about Common Core, because the standards make sense. It is about the particular program that can be good or bad irrespectively of Common Core. It is absolutely pointless to use a particular program and blame or praise Common Core because of faults or benefits of the program.
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GREAT response, Rage! (& that’s DR. Raymond to all of us peons on the ground, actually working WITH the first graders.)
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I want to state right out of the gate that since I do not teach math or hold any math degrees, nor have I ever given Ted a Talk on YouTube to my knowledge, I can therefore be attacked ad hominem for everything I write herein, including a lack of specific degrees in various subjects, dangling participles, a general distaste for trigonometry, or a lack of experience playing professional basketball in Australia like some former U.S. secretaries of education who ineptly drove a bunch of nonsensical, data driven high stakes into everyone’s hearts. So, ok, there’s that. Fling stones at will.
Now, the problem here seems to be the whole standards versus tests versus curriculum thing. Regarding curriculum, that’s where the teaching part of education happens, or is supposed to happen. Teachers are supposed to be well trained, educated professionals given the academic freedom to devise lessons that meet their students’ individual and group needs and interests, not TFA interns fresh out of college who need canned “curriculum” scripts on computers, irregardless of subject. There is no call for or legality behind a national curriculum (or state curricula, for that matter.
Which brings me to the tests. I won’t mince words here. I agree, the tests are stupid, talking pineapple stupid, 2 + 2 = 22 as long as you explain why stupid. Why testing companies are allowed to control anything in education with their poorly written questions, poorly selected content, and poorly graded by minimum wage scorers found on Craigslist is beyond all reason. But, the tests are now the end all be all, and test prep is sadly many teachers’ modus operandi.
If we got rid of the tests and the push for centralized, automated control over curriculum, why would we need standards? The tests have in fact become ‘de facto curriculum’. Might we do a little better returning control over content to teachers and principals? Couldn’t we have content frameworks or guides, and return academic freedom over methodology to professionals on the ground? Yes. One day when the testing and tech companies stop lobbying Congress. The standards are just an excuse for the tests and the data, the data, the confounded, profit driven data. Just as there are multiple algorithms for adding together 3472 and 1248, there are multiple ways to teach them. But I will sarcastically add that maybe students just have to do a “close read” of the number sentence, make some notes, and figure everything out for themselves; then they will be college and coding career ready fer sure!
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“If we got rid of the tests and the push for centralized, automated control over curriculum, why would we need standards?” – Because as a student you will know what you are going to study this year and the next year and the year after that. If you are not happy with the pacing, you know beforehand where you need to accelerate or augment. Because the textbooks from different publishers are supposed to be compatible. Because the family can move across districts and states without lapses or repeats in education. Because colleges know what to expect, which become especially important when many colleges abandon SAT/ACT as a requirement.
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Students first! Ahem. Teaching is, within limits, supposed to be centered on students, not textbooks, not what other schools are doing, not what colleges are doing, not what David Coleman says. Teaching is a profession that requires constant adjustment, not an assembly line job. We don’t just follow steps in instruction manuals.
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“We don’t just follow steps in instruction manuals.” – yes, if you are one of a kind kung-fu master who has his own school of twenty followers deep in the mountains. No, when we are talking about 3 million educators teaching the same basic stuff, which then will be relied on by colleges and by employers.
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You seem to think very little of teachers. We’re actually pretty good. Believe it or don’t.
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“Because as a student you will know what you are going to study this year and the next year and the year after that. If you are not happy with the pacing, you know beforehand where you need to accelerate or augment.”
What planet did you say you came from BA?
Never once in 21 years of teaching did I encounter a student who thought in the manner that you describe.
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First of all, education is not some sort of manufacturing process that turns out widgets for the benefit of colleges and employers.
Second, whatever obligation schools do have to colleges or employers is not a matter of stuffing all heads equally with the “same basic stuff”. Education is matter of learning to make one’s way in the world, to solve the problems that one encounters in the world, to get along with the people one has to live and work with and to learn to be one’s best self. None of this involves any necessity for “about 3 million educators teaching the same basic stuff”. Colleges and employers themselves are best served by having students and employees with unique experiences who can think and interact, not ones who can spout “the same basic stuff”.
BTW, BackAgain, I don’t think we’ve been properly introduced. What is your connection with education? Are you a teacher? Parent? Other?
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“First of all, education is not some sort of manufacturing process that turns out widgets for the benefit of colleges and employers.” – In the modern world it is a manufacturing process whether you like it or not.
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No, BA, it is not. Just because the neoliberals say so doesn’t make it true. You’re far too eager to sell. One wonders why….
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Hmmm, BA, no, it’s not a “manufacturing process”. I was involved with “a manufacturing process”, metal building manufacturer, in a couple of different capacities ending up as the materials manager which if you don’t know involves scheduling everything from start to finish and making sure the materials are ready as needed for the manufacturing process needs them.
The teaching and learning process is not a “manufacturing process” by any stretch of the meaning of that term, except perhaps to those who have no clue about the teaching and learning process.
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“the materials manager which if you don’t know involves scheduling everything from start to finish and making sure the materials are ready as needed for the manufacturing process needs them.” – and this is exactly what say, 5th grade teacher must do to ensure 6th grade teacher can take over. This is what high school teachers must do to ensure that college freshmen do not take humiliating remedial courses because not only they don’t know math or physics or whatever else on college level, they barely know it on high school level.
On another forum I’ve read of a college teacher whos students do not have prerequisites for his course – not a single student! Is is the “unique experience” Dienne and you are advocating?
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Again, BA, it’s not “manufacturing”. Have you worked in a manufacturing industry? Have you taught in public schools? If you have done both I don’t think that you’d make the statement that you made.
Have you seen this about the Blueberry Story? (go to the 3 minute mark to get the story)
“And that’s why it’s a business and not a school” (@ 6:56)
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Manufacturing is all about standardizing and reducing variation in output from some standard value. When manufactured products are the output, variation is a bad thing.
But the future of our country depends on innovation and innovation depends on variation, not standardization.
Reducing variation in the education system reduces the likelihood of innovation by those who come out of the education system.
“Nonstandard Deviation”
(versification of Yong Zhao – aka “The Zhao
of Education”)
Deviation from the norm’s
Anathema to school reforms
But variance is future’s seed
It’s NOT a thing that we should weed
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@SDP
“The future of our country depends on innovation and innovation depends on variation, not standardization.” – I don’t think that this country needs millions of innovators, unless you call innovator anyone who opened a taco joint or has a YouTube channel.
“When manufactured products are the output, variation is a bad thing.” – true, but like parts, people can not only meet standards, but exceed them. So, you meet the reading standards, which is good enough for employment, but you can also write witty stories. Or you can do basic algebra, which is good enough for not repeating algebra in college, but you can also do some fancy group theory.
Standards in education do not put limits from above, only from below.
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@Duane,
this was a fun video. He should do standups in his second life. But I would not compare people with blueberries, which can get rotten or squished or dried up. I am thinking of something more humane… how about pegs of different shape and size, that you want to put in a perfectly polished round hole? The whole idea of elementary school is to machine, polish, harden those pegs so they would fit the hole. And if some pegs will have got extra polished or extra strong, that is even better, that is not against the spec. Quite contrary, everything beyond spec is good.
If a country has significant number of “non-spec” children, so significant that this affects the curriculum, then this may be a problem with the country, eh? Why so many kids are either malnourished or obese? Why they have developmental problems? If there are so many of them, maybe something wrong with the air, water, food, society? Maybe it is lead in drinking water, or maybe it is 40+ year old giving birth to their first child? This problem must be solved as a system, this is not just the school’s issue.
But turning from these basic issues and instead saying that school must take all the blueberries no matter what quality they are is putting unfair pressure on schools. Schools should have programs and curricula designed for normal people not disabled ones, because normal people should be the norm. But it is simpler to water down curriculum for underdeveloped kids than fix water supply in cities like Flint.
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BackAgain
I didn’t claim our country needed millions of innovators.
Only that standardization, by it’s very nature, reduces the number of innovators.
If the future of our country depends on innovation — and I think few would debate that it does — and standardization in education reduces the likelihood of innovation even by a small amount, that could have a very large effect on the country.
The reason for this is precisely that the innovators are outliers on the distribution who comprise a relatively small fraction of the total. If by rexucing variation in the education process, you e!iminate even one Steve Jobs, it has a large effect.
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The real goal should be a developmentally appropriate “Scope and Sequence” document for each grade level, in each subject.
One of the fundamental flaws of the modern day standards movement (NCLB and CCSS) was the exclusion of the majority of school subjects. This was unfair for every stakeholder except the money makers.
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Your response, Left Coast, is right out of the park, as well.
And–here’s the latest (no, this is NOT satire!): a school district (only in ILL-Annoy, folks!) just announced that it want the 8th Graders to think of what career they want to work on (when they grow up!), & then start readying themselves for that track in high school.
The news report stated that parents have begun to respond to this with some trepidation, as they think that 8th Graders are a little too young to make up their minds about careers.
Parents: 1 Adminimals: 0
(I will be sending more news {sure to be fascinating} about this after I talk to an acquaintance who teaches in this district! Perhaps he can send something for a post, here.)
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In my district they start preaching “college and career” readiness in kindergarten. Yes, they actually bully kids into reading with fear that they will not be accepted into college. They start having them “think” about what they want to be when they grow up while still in kindergarten when they have absolutely no life experience whatsoever. It’s sinful! This is not new…it has become the norm.
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This is what they should want to be: a cowboy, a fire fighter, a police officer, an astronaut, a dancer, a singer. a swimmer.
I don’t know what five year olds want to be when they grow up, but they should be allowed to dream.
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It seems that in the U.S. school students are considered brainless and infantile all the way through high school. This is different in other countries, where kids as young as 12 are able to make a sensible assessment of their own abilities and desires, for example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Belgium :
When graduating from primary school around the age of 12, students enter secondary education. Here they have to choose a course that they want to follow, depending on their skill level and interests.
The Belgian secondary education grants the pupils more choice as they enter a higher cycle. The first cycle provides a broad general basis, with only a few options to choose from (such as Latin, additional mathematics and technology). This should enable students to orient themselves in the most suitable way towards the many different courses available in the second and third stages. The second and third cycle are much more specific in each of the possible directions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_the_Netherlands :
After attending elementary education, children in the Netherlands (by that time usually 12 years old) go directly to high school (voortgezet onderwijs; literally “continued education”). Informed by the advice of the elementary school and the results of the Cito test, a choice is made for either voorbereidend middelbaar beroepsonderwijs (VMBO), hoger algemeen voortgezet onderwijs (HAVO) or voorbereidend wetenschappelijk onderwijs (VWO) by the pupil and their parents. When it is not clear which type of secondary education best suits a pupil, or if the parents insist their child can handle a higher level of education than what was recommended to them, there is an orientation year for both VMBO/HAVO and HAVO/VWO to determine this.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secondary_education_in_France :
Lycées are divided into (i) the lycée général, leading to two or more years of post–baccalauréat studies, (ii) the lycée technologique, leading to short-term studies, and (iii) the lycée professionnel, a vocational qualification leading directly to a particular career. General and technological education courses are provided in “standard” lycées, while vocational courses are provided in separate professional lycées.
According to the official statistics, for the 2003–2004 school year, 33 per cent of all students chose série S; 19 per cent chose série ES; and 11 per cent chose série L.
—
It seems that in all these systems a change can be made about halfway through a certain “sub-school”. Translated to the U.S. soil, that would mean high schools specialized either in humanities, or STEM or vocational skills, but having EXACTLY THE SAME programs in the first two years, giving an option of switching the track. Then, in 11th and 12th grades these tracks would be locked, and actual specialization would take place.
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Regarding, “It seems that in the U.S. school students are considered brainless and infantile all the way through high school.”:
This is NOT how we view our students.
One way of putting it is that we consider our students to be individuals; many with differing and diverging developmental stages and patterns.
We want them to develop their skills and talents at their own pace and have the opportunity to change their course if and when they desire.
We want to develop in them the concept that they CAN make small or large scale changes in career development at any point in their lives.
I wanted to be a fireman. Then a Secret Service agent. Then a pro football player. Then an actor and/or musician. I ended up doing a LOT of different jobs while continuing on as a professional musician through the entire time. If you’d told me, as a teen, that I was going to be a teacher of 24+ years, later in life, I’d have laughed in your face.
As I said: I’m glad you’re happy with your educational system in Belgium. Ours is not and has never been broken, here in the USA. It’s just different from yours.
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“We want them to develop their skills and talents at their own pace and have the opportunity to change their course if and when they desire.” – of course, of course. This is why physics, chemistry, foreign language and lots of other things are electives at best, and even when elected they are just one-year courses to not overload the underdeveloped brains of the young ones.
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Dr. Wierdl only serves to muddy the waters when it comes to a discussion of standards, curriculum and assessment in mathematics education. In large part, this is because Dr. Wierdl fails to distinguish between standards (which can generally be thought of as goals), curriculum (the experiences of students) and assessment (a measure of students’ understanding)
That’s actually a very ironic — and funny — statement, given that no one has muddied the waters more than the people behind Common Core, whose very PURPOSE was to blur the distinction between standards, curriculum and assessment.
In fact, they wanted the distinction to disappear altogether.
Here’s what Bill Gates (who underwrote the development of Common Core) said in 2009
Identifying common standards is not enough. We’ll know we’ve succeeded when the curriculum and the tests are aligned to these standards.
…next-generation assessments aligned to the common core. When the tests are aligned to the common standards, the curriculum will line up as well—and that will unleash powerful market forces in the service of better teaching.
And here’s what David Coleman, chief architect of Common Core said:
these standards are worthy of nothing if the assessments built on them are not worthy of teaching to, period.
teachers will teach towards the test. There is no force strong enough on this earth to prevent that. There is no amount of hand-waving, there‟s no amount of saying, “They teach to the standards, not the test; we don‟t do that here.” Whatever. The truth is – and if I misrepresent you, you are welcome to take the mic back. But the truth is teachers do. Tests exert an enormous effect on instructional practice, direct and indirect, and it‟s hence our obligation to make tests that are worthy of that kind of attention.
It is in my judgment the single most important work we have to do over the next two years to ensure that that is so, period. So when you ask me, “What do we have to do over the next years?” we gotta do that. If we do anything else over the next two years and don‟t do that, we are stupid and shall be betrayed again by shallow tests that demean the quality of classroompractice, period
///////End quotes
So, let’s dispense with the silly notion that critics of Common Core are muddying the waters by failing to draw a distinction between the standards, curriculum and tests for Common Core.
That tired old idea needs to be put to bed.
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If only Comrade Stalin knew what is being done in his name!
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Muddy Waters
sang the blues
He lived his life
and paid his dues
No one told him
what to do
He spread his wings
and off he flew
Muddy waters
stay that way
so no one sees
a better way
Poor Mate
just can’t say, “boo!”,
He’s not among
the chosen few
imho:
Ms Raymond’s post is well written and intelligently thought out. By definition, “Standards”, “Curriculum”, and “Assessment” are separate entities and one shouldn’t be mistaken for the others.
But the originators, propagators, and enforcers of the CCSS (and other areas of education “reform”) have drawn up their own guidelines to suit their purposes by combining the three into one, tight, neat package.
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My only question is this:
Has Kate Raymond ever received payment from the K20 Center at OU?
Gates Foundation is listed as one of their partners and as we all know, Gates Foundation underwrote Common Core.
Oh, one more question:
Why is it that Mate Wierdl has to be an expert on childhood math learning to comment on CC when the lead author of the CC math standard, Jason Zimba, who claims to have written the standards in his garage, is not an expert in that area either?
Zimba is a PhD physicist and Weirdl is a PhD mathematician, so I assume both can do the math.
The main difference between the two would seem to be that Zimba has made hundreds of thousands of dollars off of Common Core while Wierdl has not made a cent.
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Nicely done, SDP.
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Bravissimo, SDP!!
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David Coleman readily admitted that he and his partner Jason Zimba, who made hundreds of thousands of dollars through their company Student Achievement Partners (in 2012 alone, Coleman made about $270k and Zimba $330k, according to 990 tax filing for SAP) had qualifications to write standards. In fact, Coleman seemed quite proud of that fac, saying
“Student Achievement Partners, all you need to know about us are a couple things. One is we’re composed of that collection of unqualified people who were involved in developing the common standards. ”
And though Coleman continues with “our only qualification was our attention to and command of evidence behind them”, SAP never provided any evidence to CC validation panel member Sandra Stotsky (who subsequently refused to sign off on Common Core*), though she requested such evidence. Nor was any pilot testing ever done of CC in it’s finalized form. (See Common Core Dilemma by Mercedes Schneider
*Stotsky was not the only validation panel member who refused to sign off on the CC. Neither did mathematician James Milgram nor Dylan William. The upshot is that CC was NEVER validated.
See “Why Do Common Core’s Supporters Try to Discredit Critics of Common Core’s Mathematics Standards?” By Dr. Sandra Stotsky
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Coleman readily admitted that he and his partner Jason Zimba had NO qualifications to write standards.
we’re composed of that collection of unqualified people who were involved in developing the common standards. ”
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Inciddntally, I find it utterly astonishing that someone who got a Rhodes Scholarship to attend Oxford University would actually say some of the things Coleman has.
Seriously, how many “Rhodes scholars” would actually brag that their company was “composed of that collection of unqualified people who were involved in developing the common standards”?
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She was the Math Curriculum Designer https://www.linkedin.com/in/kate-raymond-11a634106
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Exactly.
In the logic of so-called reform, if Mate Weirdl is so smart, then why hasn’t he gotten rich off the kids yet?
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“Common Core Math”
The math of Deform
Does not count the scholars
Instead, it’s the norm
To count up the dollars
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SDP “Why is it that Mate Wierdl has to be an expert on childhood math learning to comment on CC”
Does the driver of a car need to be an expert in car manufacturing to be able to report on a car breakdown? It’s of course standard practice from car manufacturers to try to blame the driver so that they can get out of warranty obligations.
Btw, has anybody seen the terms of CC warranty? What number can I call to complain to the experts and have my wasted tax dollars back?
“The main difference between the two would seem to be that Zimba has made hundreds of thousands of dollars off of Common Core while Wierdl has not made a cent.”
Another difference is that I doubt anybody is qualified to write detailed standards for 50 million kids. Some people have the ego to think they could do it, but ego is not qualification.
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I am a retired high school mathematics teacher and one of the winners of the Presidential Award for Excellence in Mathematics Teaching. I currently teach the two-semester mathematics for elementary teachers program at our local university and have been doing so for the past eight years. While I do not agree with much of the common core, a few of the sequences of approaching content do make some sense, for example, beginning fractions with what are called unit fractions (numerators are 1) an then moving on to the other more common fractions such as 2/3, 3/4 and so on. However, I am not an never have been a fan of standardized tests of any kind (including the SAT/ACT) I did teach a one-semester SAT prep course in high school based on parent and student requests. It was in this course that I gave the only multiple choice tests I gave outside of final exams (we had very little time to correct finals); otherwise, the tests I gave in other mathematics courses were the “show all work” type.
Asking a young child to not only sit for hours and days taking invalid standardized tests (whether they are used for teacher evaluation or not – bad idea) is just crazy. If one wants to know if a child has learned basic number facts, the test shown from Finland does just that. If one wants to know how a child has solved a more difficult problem, one needs to listen to that child explain his/her way through it. This is true of elementary children as well as my high school students – listening to them talk about how they attacked and solved a problem is of more value than asking them to write it down especially at the elementary level when their verbal and writing skills are not as well developed. The test sample we saw of a “common core” test was bizarre – mathematically I knew what was wanted, but it certainly was a strange way to phrase the questions. Since the tests come from the same people who write the textbooks and who are clearly not experienced, practicing classroom teachers, it is no wonder that the testing is bizarre, badly worded and statistically invalid. We must all remember what we learned when we studied our education courses – the textbook is not the curriculum. The text, if one is used, is a support to a well-constructed curriculum and a curriculum is best written by those in the field who know and understand how children learn and what content should be taught and learned prior to moving on to other content.
A word to SomeDAMPoet – I look forward to your posts – they are always right on target. Thanks.
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“. . . it is no wonder that the testing is bizarre, badly worded and statistically invalid.”
Not only statistically invalid but more importantly onto-epistemologically invalid. Statistics on invalid concepts nets one invalid statistics or at least statistical information that is meaningless. Standards and the standardized testing are fundamentally conceptually flawed from the gitgo. The ol garbage in garbage out.
Noel Wilson showed us all the onto-epistemological errors and falsehood in the assumptions of the standards and testing regime and some of the psychometric fudgings in the making, using and disseminating of the results of standardized tests. His never refuted nor rebutted “Educational Standards and the Problem of Error” can be found at: http://epaa.asu.edu/ojs/article/view/577/700
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& thanks to you, Susan, as well. Valid opinions–from one who really knows.
Please post more comments on future blog posts–yours was “right on target” as well.
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Thank you. I have enjoyed your posts enormously.
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Susan “If one wants to know how a child has solved a more difficult problem, one needs to listen to that child explain his/her way through it. ”
Susan, this is a way too classical method. There is nothing new in it, nothing inventive, 21st century; I even feel the dusty wind of Socrates in it. Are you trying to switch frames from education leadership theory, standards, curriculum to actual teaching involving listening to kids? Don’t you know that there is nothing exact, rigorous, testable in this outdated approach? Why do you think this country switched to grading based solely on written tests? Seriously, what do kids know that is worth listening to? What new can they tell us?
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Are you serious with the “testable” reference? Testing is a form of assessment; so is listening to students and engaging them in a dialogue. Just because something is classical, not new, exact, or whatever, doesn’t mean it is outdated….especially if it works. I happen to like Socrates….
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“…Just because something is classical, not new, exact, or whatever, doesn’t mean it is outdated….especially if it works. I happen to like Socrates….”
But Socrates is so pre 21st century, Susan. Get with it.
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Susan, I was sarcastic. I agree with you completely.
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(I think Mate was being a bit tongue in cheek, there, Susan)
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I am not an expert in math or teaching math but I curious to know what the math experts checking in on this blog thinks about TEACH TO ONE.
Teach to One is a middle school math-only franchise offering multi-grade paths to right answers for math problems of different types.
Here’s the gist of how it works. A school signs a contract that requires it to provide a space (usually the school library), Chromebooks, and other resources, including large video panels connected to the internet (like airport screens listing departures/arrivals).
Computers decide what each student will learn, in what sequence, for the whole year, based on diagnostic tests.
Every day, students check the large video panels to find their own “play list” of tasks and “exit slips.” At the end of the 90-minute class, their exit slips go to the central server in New York City. Computers grade the tests, then choose and post a next-day playlist of tasks and tests for each student.
In the space once used as the library, students rotate among computer-assigned “learning modalities” every 30-35 minutes (large or small group instruction, worksheets, online). Two teachers and two aides manage over 50 students who must raise hands to ask questions or risk a penalty.
Teach to One markets this as personalized learning. I think the priority is getting a proof of concept that can be scaled up. So far, more than 25% of 53 schools have dropped the program. “Personalized” is a marketing term for more and more computer-centric classrooms.
Teach to One, originated in the NYC Department of Education but is now supported by: “Anonymous,” Bezos Family Foundation, Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, Carnegie Corporation of New York, Chan-Zuckerberg Educational Alliance, New Profit Inc., Oak Foundation, Michael & Susan Dell Foundation and about 47 other individuals and foundations–all conspicuous critics of public schools.
For more:
This link has classroom photos of students whose math curriculum is largely determined by algorithms
https://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2017/03/29/curriculum-playlists-a-take-on-personalized-learning.html
This link gives more information, including costs, and the informed opinion of scholar Larry Cuban who visited schools with Teach to One math. http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2015/02/teach_to_one_what_happens_when_computers_pick_what_students_learn.html
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The first line from the first link says it all…”it is neither cheap nor proven”…
Here again, we are parking children in front of a screen instead of a teacher. While the idea of one-to-one teaching may be helpful to some children, there are other and, in my opinion, better ways to teach. Sitting in front of a computer is not teaching.
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Here again we are parking children in front of a screen…computers are an adjunct to learning…they will never be the main source of knowledge.
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Caligirl
You are right.
Computers are a tool. Nothing more.
Parking a kid in front of a computer and expecting them to become educated is like giving them a hammer and expecting them to build a house.
The education they will get will stand up about as well as the house.
In order for a tool to be useful, you have to know how to use it. And building a house requires knowing and being able to do much more than using a hammer.
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Oh, & I had forgotten to mention–when I was talking about the absurdity of that first question, w/the 5 coins & that cup w/the 6 on it–I had interpreted something about the author(s) of that test trying to make a statement about the cup, that, perhaps, the cup was 6 oz. (when a real cup measure is 8 oz.).
Confound it all! Back to Duane & his Wilson rant!.
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No, no rant this time, just a reference.
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To: Kate Raymond, PhD
Department of Instructional Leadership and Academic Curriculum
Mathematics Education
University of Oklahoma
Jeannine Rainbolt College of Education
820 Van Vleet Oval, ECH 114
Norman, OK, 730
I am a reader and I read that Dr. Máté Wierdl wrote:
[start quote]
I think the operative expression to use when we talk about teaching math is “make sense to the students” instead of “proof” or even “understanding”.
This suggested expression implies that we are not talking about some kind objective, unique standard of understanding, a verification of truth at a fixed level,
but an understanding which very much depends on the students such as their AGE, MATURITTY level or BACKGROUND and perhaps even PERSONALITY
[end quote]
Ms. Raymond, you state that you have master degree. So, I do not address you with title Dr. I hope that I do not offend you.
As you can read other posts from many well respected contributors in this platform, like SDP (SomeDAM Poet), Susan L Osberg, retiredbutmissthekids, Duane E Swacker, Laura H. Chapman, and of course Dr. Wierdl, you must have your own answer from their feedback.
In short, I am taking up your challenge which you ask: “…… I challenge anyone to find a set of standards that requires students to “explain the difference every time they see it”.
Here is my answer to you. In math, the TRUTH is in the logic table (AND, OR, NOR,…). In humanity, human survival is love, NOT LUST, care, knowledge, and kindness in a logical sense.
All students of ALL AGES will definitely “explain the difference every time they see it” whenever they master, thoroughly understand and have lived with:
1) the logic table
2) Love, NOT LUST, care, knowledge, and kindness in a logical sense. Back2basic
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To clarify, I do hold a Master’s degree in mathematics, and a Doctorate in instructional leadership and academic curriculum in mathematics education. But no, I am not offended.
To further clarify, let me quote myself. “I am by no means a proponent of, or an expert in, common core mathematics, the baseless and inaccurate assumptions Dr. Wierdl only serves to muddy the waters when it comes to a discussion of standards, curriculum and assessment in mathematics education.” In other words, I am not here to defend Common Core, standardized assessments, or any other specific component of the standardized educational complex. In fact, I agree with many points made in comments.
However, I do want to argue that we should be clear about what we disagree with and why we disagree with it. In Dr. Weirdl’s post, he said he was critiquing common core, while he was referring to an article that discussed standardized test- which are two distinct things, just as mathematics, truth, and standards are all distinct things. I have no doubt that student experience and see things very often I would rather they did not, but standards are a written document, nothing more, and may not be the source of the things that go on in real classroom, which are also affected by federal, state, and local policies as well as parents and teachers. Hence, my statement regard the need for students to explain certain things “every time” was merely pointing out that this is not a requirement of Common Core or any written standards. I am quite certain there are individual teachers or districts that have interpreted the standards in such a way, but that is a problem of teacher education and district policy.
He also made some specific criticisms of elements of mathematics curricula that exist in common core, the state standards for Oklahoma where I work, the Finnish mathematics curriculum, and many other mathematics curricula worldwide, including the need for students to communicate mathematical and be able to decompose numbers. These are elements I will defend, as the need for such has been thoroughly documented in educational research, as described in my original post.
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I don’t think a global math standard for first and second graders is too complicated. Let the world decide, why would it differ from one hemisphere to another? it’s basic math, it should be simple, open source, free and global.
The common core, in trying to take a thousand years or so of math knowledge it didn’t invent, fence it, make it proprietary, and monetize it, is a troll charging a toll under the bridge it didn’t build.
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The Common Troll
The Common Troll
Is under bridge
Collecting toll
From passing kids
It copyrights
The parts of speech
And sets its $ight$
On kids we teach
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“Pay the trolls”
When public serves the pols
Instead of other way
The public pays the trolls
For passage every day
“Trolling for Dollars”
The trolls are waiting under bridge
To pounce upon the passing kids
Disguised as Broads and Billy goats
With candy and with diet kochs
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The architects of Common Core: teachers:: British generals: the soldiers at Gallipoli.
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I have to confess I’m a bit astonished by the level of vitriol in the comment thread here, but perhaps that’s no surprise on the Internet in 2018. It also seems to me that Professor Ravitch did Dr. Raymond no favors when choosing the headline for this blog. Much of the anger directed at the author seems to take her as a defender or proponent of Common Core math. However, the third paragraph of the post makes clear that the author of the post sees herself as neither. Rather, she is critiquing Weirdl’s criticism of Common Core. There’s a key difference. I can say that someone offers a poor critique of market economics, or of religion or of atheism – or of anything else! – without endorsing the thing being criticized. Maybe there are simply better criticisms. Or maybe the world is a bit more complex than things being completely wonderful or absolutely awful.
The contribution her post makes is to defend the expertise of researchers and practitioners of math education (in which she has a Ph.D.), as distinct from researchers of mathematics (in which she has an M.A., and Weirdl has a Ph.D.). She shows that, in several ways, Weirdl makes unfounded assumptions and arguments about math teaching and learning. She also suggests that the literature on mathematics education shows the value of students learning to express and communicate their understanding of mathematics, as opposed to simply learning rote procedures.
It’s a shame the headline wasn’t more reflective of the author’s intended contributions. It’s also a shame that the discussion here hasn’t paid a bit more attention to her points – rather than to her credentials and CV, or to distorted portrayals of her position on Common Core math.
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I’m sorry if you thought I misrepresented the author’s view. I read Mate Wierdl’s critique. She was challenging his depiction of common core math. Readers are able to read and think and reach their own judgments.
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To ProfessorX:
I am sorry to offend you that Dr. Raymond, being PhD in Department of Instructional Leadership and Academic Curriculum Mathematics Education, did not know well all readers in this platform because Dr. Raymond do not do research well enough!
The majority of all contributors are educational veterans who have more than 30+ years in teaching career. We did NOT, do NOT, and will NOT AGREE or MISUNDERSTAND any expression that favors corrupted corporate and leaders who try to destroy PUBLIC EDUCATION. Period.
However, everyone entitles to his/her opinion. According to Annie Lennox, in her song “Sweet Dreams are made of” from the band “Eurythmics”, you might hear:
Who am I to disagree?
I travel the world and the seven seas
Everybody’s looking for something
Some of them want to use you
Some of them want to get used by you
Some of them want to abuse you
Some of them want to be abused.
IMHO, The rich want to use, and abuse the poor, but only the ignorant, uneducated, and brainwashed want to be used and abused by the con artist or by conditional and greedy philanthropist.
In this platform, the majority is educators with many years (20, 30, 40…) of experiences. These benevolent teachers are in this educational field for the humanity, and civilization of their beloved country.
In short, we welcome philanthropist. But, please “donate your billions without strings attached. ”
“If not…don’t give anything. Stay out of the way. And let real educators work with what little they are given.”
Most of all, teachers do not want corrupted leaders experiment on people’s children. Back2basic
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Vitriol and name calling is ok if they are collinear with the Party line.
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Prof X “She also suggests that the literature on mathematics education shows the value of students learning to express and communicate their understanding of mathematics, as opposed to simply learning rote procedures.”
Are you implying that I suggest, kids learn rote procedures? If yes, why would you think that?
Here is my favorite video of a math class.
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With $30K / year tuition it better be fun, engaging and indeed, useful. Now find a similar video – a very well produced, I must say – from a public school.
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Hmm, I really liked that video too. Students started by “critically analyzing the math problem”. Students shared thoughts with each other and “critiqued” other students reasoning. They showed that they could use the puzzle “flexibly” and “make use of its structure” to find a solution they “looked for repeated reasoning” until they could “model with mathematics” while “attending to precision”.
Are those some of the reasons you liked this video? Because the things in quotes are all standards for mathematical practice from Common Core. The teacher in this video clearly has a deep understanding of those practices, while the person shown in the other video you posted below clearly does not. Does the fact that many, or even the majority, of teachers don’t understand the standards of mathematical practice mean they are bad practices, or does it mean teachers need better professional development?
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RK, those ideas you quote about good teaching are nothing new, and it’s unlikely the great teacher in the video didn’t learn them by reading CC. Actually, I think much of the stuff he does comes naturally to him. He is a born teacher, and I suspect, he’d be great in teaching anything.
I do not want to speculate on how to make teachers better adapt to CC for a simple reason: I think such detailed standards are a mistake (even without the tests). I am terrified at the thought that one day, universities also need to teach according to such standards. There are signs of this: privatization is spreading very fast at universities, and more and more control of the curriculum is taken out of profs’ hands.
Here is another video from the same teacher, Justin Solonynka, on a completely different problem.
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Prof X “The contribution her post makes is to defend the expertise of researchers and practitioners of math education (in which she has a Ph.D.), as distinct from researchers of mathematics (in which she has an M.A., and Weirdl has a Ph.D.). ”
Are you saying, teaching math in college is not a practice in math education?
What was I doing when I taught gened math to nursing students, introduction to proofs to high school kids, calculus to engineering majors, CC math to elementary school teachers?
Am I allowed to peek into the K-12 math educational background of my students (and my kids) without having my qualifications questioned?
Am I capable of reading math K-12 standards and understand what they mean?
Am I qualified to be alarmed when I feel, a standard doesn’t serve kids well or may not help preparing them well for college?
Instead of trying to make the distinction between college and K-12 sharper, shouldn’t we try to make the transition for kids smoother?
Profs are criticized for living in their ivory tower, I get out of there, and Kate feels like kicking my butt for it.
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So then you can show where in standards they say students have to cummunicate the difference between two numbers every time? Or point to research that shows the difference is intuitive for most students? She seems to be arguing factual points more than anything, and I’ve not seen anyone counter these facts.
Also, how do you know she doesn’t “get out there”? All the profs I had in colleges of ed were current or former teachers, are you sure she isn’t? Does she do her research in schools? Or are you throwing out another unfounded accusation with no evidence?
There is a difference between teaching and studying how children learn. I’ve change the oil in my car, but that doesn’t mean I understand how the motor operates.
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MD “Also, how do you know she doesn’t “get out there”?”
What did I say that prompted this question?
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MD “There is a difference between teaching and studying how children learn. I’ve change the oil in my car, but that doesn’t mean I understand how the motor operates.”
Now that’s ivory tower speech. A kindergarten teacher is not qualified to say “The Kindergarten CCSS is inappropriate for my kids”. What she experiences in her class every day is only in her imagination.
A college prof is not qualified to say “Kids are less prepared for college than they were 10 years ago. I don’t care what the stated goal of the CC system says, I don’t care what deal my race to the top recipient state made to align CC with tests and teacher evaluations, I don’t care if ACT or other test scores improved or not. What I care about is what students’ show me in a math class.”
To use your metaphor: experts gave us a new car, told us, all we have to do is change the oil regularly, but the car doesn’t work, the motor makes strange noises, stalls all the time. We are now searching for the warranty terms.
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Prof X “I have to confess I’m a bit astonished by the level of vitriol in the comment thread here,”
Well, Kate’s post is as much of an objective, to the point criticism, void of personal remarks as poor, innocent CC can be considered and judged separately from the tests and evaluations that were imposed on 100 million people as part of the package. So I am not sure, the tone of the responses are out of line.
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The common Core standards were written by the National Governors Association Center for Best Practices (NGA Center) and the Council of Chief State School Officers (CCSSO). The PARCC tests were written by The Partnership for Assessment of Readiness for College and Careers (PARCC). States are, and have always been, free to choose both what standards the use and what assessments they use. There are common core states that don’t use PARCC test. They are not part of any “package” and never have been. If you write a bad test for one of your classes, do you blame the textbook?
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MG “States are, and have always been, free to choose both what standards the use and what assessments they use.”
Nevertheless, somehow, accidentally and miraculously, they ended up with CC (and also with VAM).
Why? State politicians analyzed the decades long research that went into developing and backing up this system, consulted thousands of teachers and happily raced to the top.
Mercedes Schneider investigates the background of CC and Race to the Top, in particular, she looks into the MOU the purpose of which is
Purpose: This document commits states to a state-led process that will draw on evidence and lead to development and adoption of a common core of state standards (common core) in English language arts and mathematics for grades K-12. These standards will be aligned with college and work expectations, include rigorous content and skills, and be internationally benchmarked. The intent is that these standards will be aligned to state assessment and classroom practice. The second phase of this initiative will be the development of common assessments aligned to the core standards developed through this process.
Her comment
Not only was the product, CCSS, never tested; in signing this MOU, states agreed to an as-of-yet undeveloped “second phase” of “common assessments.”
It sure sounds like the state signing these MOUs are “following,” not “leading.”
Mercedes concludes with
So. The “background” of CCSS is rooted in both Achieve, Inc., and NECAP, and the background of Achieve is rooted in ALEC, and the background of both is rooted in Gates.
But never forget that it is the “states” that are “leading” this CCSS effort.
[…]
In the next section, “Benefits to the States,” NGA and CCSSO are making promises. But keep in mind that the states signing the MOU are committing to a process that they agree to implement (in the future), not one that they themselves have already written. So to make promises of what CCSS is supposed to do in the future while calling it “state led” for states just signing on is a contradiction.
This article, also by Mercedes, also points out the ties between Pearson and CCSS, and discusses VAM. Shady story about top down management and politics
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/mercedes-schneider/nea-aft-common-core-and-v_b_4252679.html
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MJ: the NGA gave the green light to the propagation of the CCSS. Here’s who wrote ‘em:
https://seattleducation.com/common-core-standards/who-wrote-the-common-core-standards-the-common-core-24/
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Thank you Dr. Raymond for your precious time to reply my post.
I like your reply in a set of boundary. You may misunderstand Dr. Wierdl’s expression. However, his presentation of two tests from Finland and from USA, as a reader, I must say that I prefer Finland test over USA test if I were a grade 1 student.
I hope that you would agree with me that all learners regardless of ages, culture, sex, race…will learn better in a joyful, loving, and respectful environment. Therefore, under threat, stress, fear for punishment, learners and teachers will not improve their MUTUAL goal in education.
I hope that leaders in DOE in USA will realize how precious the bond in LOVE, TRUST, honesty, respect, humor and care BETWEEN teachers and learners in K-!2, especially in primary level. IMHO, children are like the roots and foundation of a country that need soil (= love + care + knowledge) and water (= music, sport, and literature) in order to be strong and to grow to the best of their individual potential.
In short, most importantly, each human being is composed of body, mind and spirit which are enhanced or influenced by both inner and outer conditions, such as karma and environment where that person live in, learn and accustom to. The research will be false in assumption or comparison without an equal foundation of time and space. Back2basic.
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Are you sure you meant LOVE not LUST? Just double-checking.
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Hahaha, That is really funny! Back2basic
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Let me state this first: I am not representing my university now or any other time I post on a blog. I do not even represent my own profession.
In particular, I do not intentionally argue with the cheap weaponry of “believe me, because I have a PhD in math and I have been teaching math in college at all possible levels for over 30 years”. Similarly, I ask my students to call me simply Máté and do not use Dr, because I want to achieve respect through the merit of teaching and not through credentials. It is also my hope that the reason people may pay attention to what I write on this blog is mostly because what I write makes sense to them and not because I have a PhD in math.
Second, a blog is not a scientific paper. Kate or anybody is welcome to take apart my math papers piece by piece. But taking a blog post and demanding scientific or legal precision from it is foolish—as foolish as demanding precise language at a picnic or asking kids to provide rigorous explanations in math.
For example, when I say “kids can intuitively understand the difference between 12 and 21”, there is no reason to assume that I somehow believe that a 6 year old looks at the symbols 12 and 21, and miraculously understands the difference without any guidance. In fact, it certainly is beneficial to the kids that these symbols are meaningful for them and that they understand when 12 and when 21 needs to be written down. But there is no need for a “deep” understanding which would be required if the kid would need to give an explicit explanation for the difference. A 6 year old can understand the difference between “pour the water out of the cup” and “pour water
into the cup”, but asking her to explain the difference appears unnecessary and even counterproductive. To test her knowledge, we can just ask her to fill a cup with water or empty a cup filled with water.
How do I dare to talk about 6 year olds when I teach in college not in 1st grade? Well, one of the explicit goals of common core is to make sure, kids do fine when they get to college. Now, even in college, students need “only” intuitive understanding of math. Except for mathematicians, nobody needs rigorous explanations. In fact, mathematicians use rigorous explanations and proofs only when they write papers, but when they talk to each other about math, they aim for understanding each other, while rigor and the accompanying technology rarely promotes understanding. So if somebody is talking about deep understanding and rigor being beneficial to
kids, especially young kids, my doubts start talking to me and want to get out.
Let us now take these two requirements from CC for 2nd graders.
CCSS.MATH.CONTENT.2.NBT.B.7
Add and subtract within 1000, using concrete models or drawings and strategies based on place value, properties of operations, and/or the relationship between addition and subtraction; relate the strategy to a written method. Understand that in adding or subtracting three-digit numbers, one adds or subtracts hundreds and hundreds, tens and tens, ones and ones; and sometimes it is necessary to compose or decompose tens or hundreds.
CCSS.MATH.CONTENT.2.NBT.B.9
Explain why addition and subtraction strategies work, using place value and the properties of operations.
If CC was “just another innocent, standalone document to help teachers”, the teacher might have the option to say “This is way too much for my 2nd graders to really learn to explain the nuts and bolts of the addition algorithm, so I’ll spend a few classes on making sure the technology (such as the occasional need of converting a 10 to ten 1’s) in the algorithm makes sense to the kids, but I test them only on the algorithm.”
But CC is not just a standalone document. For the teacher, it comes with a textbook and mandatory tests, and school funding and the teacher’s job depend on how kids do on these tests. The text book and test writers quite rightfully think, the above CCSS goals indicate, kids need to do the addition algorithm along with producing the
justification for every step, so the book will have countless hw problems on this to prepare kids for tests, and the teacher will assign these because she wants to keep her job.
To understand the huge difference between making sense of math vs demanding explanation every time, consider this easy to understand video on calculating 8+5
Once explaining to a 2nd grader why 8+5=13 using the video’s method is appropriate, imo (though I have no idea why anybody would choose the cumbersome notation). But asking kids to produce the explanation every time two one digit numbers need to be added together makes no sense, and strains the kids (and everybody) unnecessarily, since, for one, kids do need to learn the sums of two one digit numbers by heart, anyways.
Now one can ask, how I dare to even just look at Common Core standards when I do not have a degree in writing standards. Well, is it the case then that only standards’ writers are qualified to understand and criticize, say, CC?
Is a math teacher allowed to ask, without having her qualifications questioned, “well, why do we have math standards for kindergartners? Is it in the interest of 5 year olds to learn math? What’s this emphasis of word problems in the text books I am forced to use?”?
Is a math prof allowed to say, without having her qualifications questioned “I am afraid, these standards don’t make kids college ready. Indeed, the CC suggests, kids constantly need to explain what they are doing, and they will end up with more math anxiety and, paradoxically, less understanding—as I have been seeing it in my own
practice.”?
Here is what nobody can say in good faith.
The CCSS as a standalone document is excellent, world class, it accomplishes its goal of making kids college ready. This claim has been proved via numerous small scale experiments before the CC went wild.
On the other hand, it seems fair to say
Millions of kids’ learning and teachers’s teaching have been screwed up by the standards and the tests and evaluations they inspired.
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Stay up on that soap box Mate! You are spot on.
Here are some of the new
Next Generation Science Standards (NGSS):
NGSS: Grade 2 (Age 7)
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RTT, what does this say? “Ask questions, make observations, and gather information about a situation people want to change to define a simple problem that can be solved through the development of a new or improved object or tool.”
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“But CC is not just a standalone document. For the teacher, it comes with a textbook and mandatory tests, and school funding and the teacher’s job depend on how kids do on these tests. The text book and test writers quite rightfully think, the above CCSS goals indicate, kids need to do the addition algorithm along with producing the
justification for every step, so the book will have countless hw problems on this to prepare kids for tests, and the teacher will assign these because she wants to keep her job.”
Isn’t this just evidence that your problem is really with textbooks, school funding formulas, and standardized tests, and not with the standards themselves? why do you say writers “quite rightfully think” kids need to do the justification for everystep when you clearly think that this isn’t right and, as pointed out, that requirement is not actually part of the standards, just that they are able to make a justification (which by the way, the standards don’t specify how intuitive or foral the justification needs to be) when asked?
I’m all for throwing out the standardized testing requirments, and most textbooks, and certainly school funding formulas. And I don’t necessarily agree with Everything in the common core standards, but standards in mathematics keep getting throw out and started from scratch over and over, making teacher get used to new standards every five to ten years. Cacn’t we just realize that, like almost any policy document ever written, the comon core has some strength and ome flaws and build from the strengths and rcorrect the flaws?
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“Can’t we just realize that, like almost any policy document ever written, the comon core has some strength and ome flaws and build from the strengths and rcorrect the flaws?”
The CCSS replaced everything. The standards were written by amateurs. Why are we looking at them as the new benchmark to work off of, to begin with?
One essential question would have to do with whether there is a need for national standards at all. Different states (and cities for that matter) have different cultural makeups. Separation of States and States Rights are important to our constitution. Why should what works for New York City be forced upon Island Pond, VT?
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“Why should what works for New York City be forced upon Island Pond, VT?” – You could as well have said, why what works for the whole world should be forced onto the U.S.? No, this country will be using the Imperial system, created by its former mother country, or should I say by its former owner. Now the U.K. has long switch to metric system, but the U.S. has its own way.
Sure, why Island Pond should use Arabic numerals, how about something more godly, like base-7 numbers, huh? Why they should study evolution, why not read about people and dinosaurs living together. Why eating with knife and fork when one can pick up fries with fingers (well, this I might agree with).
Geez.
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You’re using ridiculous examples in order to refute and demean my point. I don’t know or care “why”. You just are.
Education is supposed to be within the States’ jurisdictions. CCSS, through Gates’ $$$ and influence, put a major dent into that practice.
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“Education is supposed to be within the States’ jurisdictions.” – supposed by whom? By God, by constitution, by you? I really don’t care whether it is supposed to be within States’ jurisdictions, I just see that there is no clear system grade to grade, within a single subject and across subjects even within a single school, not to mention the whole country. This “system” was ok for 17th century, but not ok for the 21st, too much interconnections and interdependencies.
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BA ” I just see that there is no clear system grade to grade, within a single subject and across subjects even within a single school, not to mention the whole country. ”
Leave schools alone, and they will have the appropriate “system”. Making up federal or statewide systems sends the message to schools: “we do not trust you guys that you can educate properly, so let me tell you what to do 24/7”.
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Mate,
Great insight
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BackAgain:
First: what state/town/city are you talking about? My daughter got a first rate education in the NYC public school system. She had a couple of clunker teachers…but everything worked out very well due to her hard work and our diligence as parents. She’s a very intelligent and worldly individual who was well served by our public school system.
Second: I’m allowed my opinion, as are you. Second time you’ve tried to demean my position…this time by equating me with God and the Constitution. That you don’t care is your right, as is mine to call you on your bullying tactic.
Third: We’re not just talking about whether public schools choose to teach Latin, here. When I first started teaching I was working with severely emotionally challenged kids who had been born crack addicted and/or had fetal alcohol syndrome. There were a LOT of these kids and the city didn’t know how to deal with them, so we were given latitude. Workshops in anger management techniques, dance/movement moments in the classroom, memoir based writing to spark interest and motivation, theater writing workshops. It worked for our population. Breaks in the routine to regroup. Age appropriate remedial math and ELA curriculae that were freely chosen by the school.
Nothing worked ALL the time, but we did start to make order out of the chaos (some would label that as “art”) and were actually able to begin teaching these kids. Then along came the CCSS. We were told to “find some other time” for those “extraneous” activities. “Get rid of the fluff”. “Grit”. “Nose to the grindstone”.
There WAS no other time. There WAS no “fluff”. The standards and resulting curriculum/assessments had no relevance whatsoever to my student population, who ended up suffering. Schools were closed. Teachers and admins were fired. Why? Because we didn’t meet up to the standards.
Now I work with kids who have autism. If I thought THE STANDARDS were irrelevant to my emotionally challenged kids, this population makes those years look like a stroll through the park.
Are you a teacher, BackAgain? Are you willing to listen to what teachers from the many, many areas of education have to say about the imposition of a blanket set of standards and the resulting curriculum/assessments that don’t address the needs and hidden talents of their students, both in general and special education?
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“Leave schools alone, and they will have the appropriate system” – They have not and they will have not. A proper system is to study Homer in ELA when learning about Greece in history class, or study linear motion in a physics class when learing about linear function in algebra, or learning about formal logic when studying geometry. In a proper system there is a tight connection between grades and between subjects. American public schools are on contrary very compartmentalized, starting with re-hashing of classes every year in elementary school (and you get a new teacher every year), to separate elementary/middle/high school districts who don’t care about each other, to electives that one may or may not take, so you cannot rely on it to build your course. Everyone is by themselves. If you are lucky you may have a good year, but the next year may be a complete disaster. And because of crap like this we see the ascendence of things like context-based mathematics, which tries to incorporate geometry, chemistry, physics, logic into a single course, but the result is a ugly five-headed monster.
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I do not understand this pessimism. Why would teachers be different from scientists? Scientists have been working without leadership, without centralized guidance or standards, and still kept up with the world extremely well.
These centralized common standards remind me of the 5-year economic plans of the communist countries. The idea was that people needed to be told what to do or the economy would collapse as the capitalist economy would surely collapse. So overtime, workers became followers; they lost their confidence that they can do stuff without these centralized 5 year plans. Though these plans were never accomplished successfully, leaders used flowery language to describe all the nonexistent successes—similarly to how CCSS creators and VAM-mers try to hide their system’s failure behind endless self praise and fake data.
The fact that the communist economy collapsed, perhaps should be a grave warning to those who believe in central control and leadership for workers in any profession.
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Instead of addressing my very specific issues with American public school system you disregard them altogether as pessimism and mount your own theory of failed planned economy. Are you comparing economy to education? Are you comparing the former USSR to the U.S.?
“Why would teachers be different from scientists? Scientists have been working without leadership, without centralized guidance or standards, and still kept up with the world extremely well.” – quoting Richard Feynman: “I thought my symbols were just as good, if not better, than the regular symbols, but I discovered later that it does make a difference. Once when I was explaining something to another kid in high school, without thinking I started to make these symbols, and he said, “What the hell are those?” I realized then that if I’m going to talk to anybody else, I’ll have to use the standard symbols, so I eventually gave up my own symbols.”
“The fact that the communist economy collapsed, perhaps should be a grave warning to those who believe in central control and leadership for workers in any profession.” – first of all, it has not collapsed because it has never existed. There has been not a single Communist country on the face of the Earth so far. If you mean the Soviet Union, it was a Socialist country at best, and a centralized tyranny at worst. The reason it disintegrated was not because of central planning per se, it was that the government was great at planning TV towers and power stations and ballistic missiles, but was completely disinterested in planning VCRs or cars, and replacing them every five years with a newer model, because in a socialist system there is no commercial interest to do that. You got that? Panasonic is interested in making a new camera each year because it competes with Sony, and because market share means profit, but in a socialist system there is no profit, therefore no one cares about market share, about quality, about having the newest and coolest toy. This killed their system, when after the WWII the life improved, and people moved to their private lives, bought better apartments, bought private cars, bought TV sets they realized that the government cannot provide them with these cool things, yet it did not allow private businesses to produce these things. Hence the conflict of interests and collapse.
But Panasonic and Sony do plan their products. Starbucks, they had that racial/social training in all their cafes all over the country at the same time – this is planning. Take defense companies, that lobby the government to buy F-35s – this is planning. Walmart, Microsoft – everyone does planning. Just because Soviet system used planning and the collapsed does not mean that planning itself is wrong, because planning itself was never a culprit.
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One of the things that’s not being addressed here is the fact that the “norm” in our educational system for almost two decades has been it’s dismantlement. It’s replacement: a narrowed down curriculum that focuses almost entirely on math and reading to the exclusion of science, social studies, the arts, and special education.
This is a direct result of the imposition of the CCSS and the test driven culture that came with them.
Two decades is a long time but still not enough to rebuild that airplane in mid flight.
We’ve not been well served by the self appointed experts.
Who are you criticizing here?
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BA “There has been not a single Communist country on the face of the Earth so far. ”
As you very well know, countries in the Soviet block called themselves socialists but in the US were and has been called communists. If I had talked about socialist economy here, people would have thought about the Scandinavian and Western European countries. You are picking on words instead of listening to the possible ideas so that you can rant.
CC appears to be part of a plan to impose uniformity in education because then technology can replace human, unpredictable teachers, and kids can obediently become part of the 1%’s economy, “choosing” careers that suites the needs of billionaires.
That’s exactly what they had in communist countries: people were working in factories and in agriculture, serving the higher need of the communist economy. Education was designed to serve this need.
Gitapik gives a passionate description of how this imposition of uniformity destroyed his own work with disadvantaged kids. The CC culture told him, his work is unimportant, because it doesn’t fit into the STEM driven education that needs to produce workers for the 1%.
But what Gitapik says is unimportant. What’s important is to reiterate that schools are bad, teachers do not know what they are doing, and hence smart people need to tell them what to do.
But you know what: I received a fantastic education under the highly controlled communist education system, and this was because of the teachers who somehow managed to open up the world for us. Communist leaders made the mistake of valuing educators a great deal, and hence the best people went to teach.
The designers of CC and friends do not want to repeat this mistake hence they put down teachers left and right—as you do, BA.
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BA “But Panasonic and Sony do plan their products.”
Why state the obvious? The question is whether they are allowed to do their own planning or somebody from above does the planning for them.
CC is part of a top down education plan, disguised as a helpful standards-assessment system driven by the states.
We can stop pretending that CCSS is just about standards, as soon as we look at its purpose: ensure that kids are career ready. CCSS ultimately was designed to serve the economy—the 1%’s economy.
But any education standards have a potential problem, even if they appear to serve only the kids’ interest and not the interest of economy, society, government: they may interfere with teachers’ creativity if they are too detailed.
When standards speak to teachers, they should say “we are here to help you to do a good job” and not “we don’t trust you that you can do a good job”.
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Why did you switch the talk from standards to planning? Planning is “this year we will have 200,000 computer engineers, 150,000 MDs, and 500,000 registered nurses.” I was talking about standards. You changed the subject.
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Again, neither planning nor standards do not require reducing curriculum to math and ELA. This is happening because the development and roll-out of the standards was given to commercial entities. If instead USED imposed federal curricula, it could – not necessarily would, but could – be completely different. See this link, scroll to the Table 1: Curriculum for Soviet elementary and Secondary schools, this is 1957, by the way, the year of Sputnik: https://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/handle/2027.42/68955/10.1177_002248716001100420.pdf?sequence=2
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Federal law specifically prohibits the US Department of Education from interfering in curriculum.
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It was Gates’ expressed desire to involve the commercial sector and the competition it would engender in the area of public education.
The imposition of the business model has been a major factor in the education reform movement. The problem is that the vast majority of “employees” are children at varying degrees of development. Not adults who should, rightfully, be held accountable for their actions. The adult “employees” (teachers) are being held accountable for the actions of the children.
There was competition from the public sector before the CCSS and technology. I used to go to curriculum fairs to help in choosing what would work best for our kids. Different companies competing for our business. Nothing unusual. My antennae started to buzz when more and more of the curriculum became script based. “And the best thing is that you, the teacher, don’t have to do ANYTHING!” was the buzz phrase. I asked, “What if we WANT to do things?” and was told that there were suggestions for differentiation included in the teachers manuals.
We’re in agreement, here, BackAgain. The private sector has been given too much power and sway. I checked out your link on the Soviet model. Many of my friends from the Soviet Union (and post Soviet Union) have had excellent educations. I don’t knock them. They don’t knock me, either, though. They recognize that I’ve had the same. CCSS were designed to fix something that wasn’t broken.
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@Máté,
“Education was designed to serve this [economic] need.” – you are talking about it as if there is something wrong with it. Would it be better to spend 13 years in an establishment, read great philosophers, listen to classical music, spend days in discussions and arguments, socialize, learn something like fencing or horseback riding, but after graduating find oneself completely unemployable? Because you know, unless we live in a blissful Communist heaven, everyone must work to provide for themselves and there family.
“I received a fantastic education under the highly controlled communist education system, and this was because of the teachers who somehow managed to open up the world for us. Communist leaders made the mistake of valuing educators a great deal, and hence the best people went to teach.” – which supports my point that having a well-planned curriculum does not have to impede learning, neither it should stifle teachers. Which returs us back to CC, which some consider way too prescriptive, but I consider these prescriptions merely as recommendations. I consider CC as the first step. It can and should be revised. It must become either open-sourced, or must attain the power of a federal document. High-stake testing must be abolished. Direct link from the standards to the computerised tests must be severed. CC is critisized for it being new and untested, but as I said, it is built on top of NCTM and NCTE standards, so it is not really new.
“When standards speak to teachers, they should say “we are here to help you to do a good job” and not “we don’t trust you that you can do a good job”. ” – what do you know, I completely agree. As I said, forget about the detailed prescriptions in the CC, just look at the goalposts, which are quite sensible. I bet you could count to 1000 when you were in 2nd grade. Why? Because you knew the base-10 system and understood how smaller boxes go into bigger boxes.
@Diane,
I know that feds cannot impose the curriculum on the whole country, but I do not agree with it. These are all human laws, not imposed by a bearded man in the sky, so these laws can be changed.
@gitapik,
“The private sector has been given too much power and sway. … CCSS were designed to fix something that wasn’t broken.” – right, but it did not start with CCSS. It started with ANAR.
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No one in Congress has proposed allowing the Department of Education to write a national curriculum.
It is prohibited.
Do you want a DeVos curriculum?
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Goalposts about what to teach at federal level: maybe. But not CC’s. At the state level, perhaps look at the style (lack of micromanagement, “goalposts) of the Finnish. Imo, the Finnish math is a bit much, btw.
And forget about CC’s career and college ready mantra.
Just don’t micromanage teachers and don’t make them teach more than 4 classes a day, so that they have energy and time to be creative.
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If there needs to be a mantra, then make it “less is more”
Btw, according to the Finnish education website, the Chinese are officially cooperating with Finnish on education issues.
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“Do you want a DeVos curriculum?” – DeVos is simply a face of a department. At least that what she should be. She is just one of the many. She represents the department. The department represents the federal outlook on education. You conflating a whole department with one person is a sign that this country is already halfway to totalitarian state, where one person makes decisions for everyone. Same with EPA. Same with POTUS. A bunch close-knit buddies ripping the country apart for themselves. Tell me this is different from Putin’s Russia.
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BA,
I didn’t realize how naive you are. The policies of the Department are shaped by the party in power. What they can get Congress to approve is a different matter.
Did you know that most of the people who work for the ED are not educators? Most are clerks or administrators. They do not have the capacity to write national standards.
When the Department was created, both parties worried that the other one would impose their views. That’s why they agreed there should be no federal interference in curriculum.
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I know that the primary function of ED when it was created as basically gathering of statistics. But as I said, these are not God’s or Universal laws, and thus they can be changed. I know that ED does employ educators, but it can commission the creation the national curriculum, creating a committee of prominent educators. Without firm and clear federal action we have CCSS and the next best thing.
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“Without firm and clear federal action we have CCSS and the next best thing”
Somehow we survived through the dark ages of non-federal intervention and CCSS. Just “how” is, unfortunately, beyond my personal scope; old school dunce that I am.
Regarding the Secretary of Education:
DeVos is much, much more than a figurehead, unfortunately. As was Arne Duncan under Obama. The person in that office is more than capable of bringing about significant change, according to the political and economic climate of the country.
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BA, get the law changed and let me know when it happens.
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Whether the law should be changed or not is debatable. If we’re worried about what DeVos could do as Secretary of Education, now…
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“But taking a blog post and demanding scientific or legal precision from it is foolish” – why then do you require it from the others?
“In fact, it certainly is beneficial to the kids that these symbols are meaningful for them and that they understand when 12 and when 21 needs to be written down. But there is no need for a “deep” understanding which would be required if the kid would need to give an explicit explanation for the difference. ” – Of course there is no deep understanding, it is enough to say that one has one ten and two units, and another has two tens and one unit, and that a ten is made of ten units, and that a ten is like a box that is “complete” when it has ten units. That is all that they need to understand. CC does not require them to explain it each time. If Pearson or EngageNY requires that, it is not CC’s problem.
Have you watched the video that I posted?
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Does anyone else find it ironic that some of the same people here who blast the fact that Common Core mathematics standards writing team was headed by a math and a physics prof because they weren’t experts in the field of teaching are also blasting a education professor for suggesting that a math prof is not an expert in teaching? Just me?
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KM, I think Kate’s meant to doubt my formal training (or expertise) in education theory, research and possibly standards writing.
As I explained, her doubts are well founded, but I think are irrelevant, since I am not pretending to be an expert in that stuff and I am not giving advice on how to do them. On the other hand, due my training in math and over three decades of teaching, I am capable of spotting problems in some of those education theories, papers when it contradicts my field experience (any driver is qualified to spot problems with the car she is driving).
I think the people here who object the composition of the committee which evaluated CC do not think teachers should be always on such committees to take a significant part in the actual creation of the standards. No, teachers’ should be there to spot errors, and match the intended effects of the standards with their own experience.
In fact, where the heck were the educational research experts when the discussion turned to introducing CC in practice? They surely would have suggested years of small scale experiments to iron wrinkles out.
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I have been meaning to respond to this post for some time. If I understand the writer correctly, she is objecting to the equating of the common core standards with the curriculum and assessments that they have spawned. The curriculum and assessments are, in my opinion, deeply flawed. I state this both as a parent helping a child navigate through common core aligned math classes from 6th grade to algebra 2 and as college mathematics professor. The content being taught is a jumbled up mess which frequently fixates on what I consider to be highly technical trivial points. The assessments are an accurate reflection of what is being taught. The point I would like to make is, if the curriculum is truly a reflection of the standards, then there is something wrong with the standards and if the curriculum is not a reflection of the standards, then the standards must be so poorly written as to be incomprehensible to those responsible for creating the curriculum and the assessments.
For the record, while I have not thoroughly reviewed the standards(a truly mind numbing task which would be bad for my blood pressure), I have certainly looked over them enough to feel that the curriculum seems to follow the standards. I do feel that the language used in the standards is confusing at times, e.g., I don’t know exactly what “Interpret parts of an expression that represent a quantity in terms of its context.” means or understand its relevance. I am not a supporter of common core, although I do know those in the mathematical community who are. I do find that most of the supporters either do not have children or have children who are not struggling with common core aligned math classes.
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I believe the standards ARE “incomprehensible to those responsible for creating the curriculum and assessments” because those responsible are not mathematics educators and are not seeped in the language and literature in the field. That’s what needs to change. People need to be better educated so that they understand that “interpret parts of an expression that represent a quantity in terms of its context” means that if I am looking at the context of “three bags each have the same number of apples” and I see the expression 3a, I understand that 3 is the number of bags and a is the numbers of apples in each bag and that when the standards ask students to “justify” what they are doing, they don’t necessarily mean in a precise technical way, but in a way that demonstrates that the math makes sense to them. In other words, the standards have been badly misinterpreted, by the policy makes who insisted standardized tests be attached to them, by curriculum designers who claimed to have aligned their textbooks to CC but have not (https://www.heartland.org/news-opinion/news/most-major-textbooks-not-fully-aligned-with-common-core), as well as by district leaders who impose requirements (like justifying work every time) above and beyond those in CC, to individual teachers who also may not have received any professional development about the standards, nor textbooks aligned to them, not time to investigate and research the standards on their own (https://edsource.org/2014/teachers-want-more-common-core-prep/68454). This is a giant problem, but will not be solved by simply replacing CC with another set of standards that are equally misinterpreted and implemented equally badly.
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LA “… because those responsible are not mathematics educators and are not seeped in the language and literature in the field. That’s what needs to change. People need to be better educated so that they understand that …”
Are you seriously suggesting that when math educators write something not for each other but for the outside world, the entire outside world needs to be educated to comprehend the language and terminology of the educators? Or should we appoint a Supreme Common Core Court to decipher the intention of some questionable parts of the Common Core Constitution for the rest of the world?
How about, instead, math educators learn to write comprehensibly? .
In any case, you seem to be convinced that CC is a misunderstood piece of great art. Shouldn’t the artists have first showed it to a small audience to see how they react to it? These gross misinterpretations surely have appeared there without causing a nationwide damage.
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This was posted earlier:
“The common Core standards were written by the National Governors Association Center for Best Practices (NGA Center) and the Council of Chief State School Officers (CCSSO). The PARCC tests were written by The Partnership for Assessment of Readiness for College and Careers (PARCC). States are, and have always been, free to choose both what standards the use and what assessments they use. There are common core states that don’t use PARCC test. They are not part of any “package” and never have been…”
I worry about comments like this. I don’t personally know the person who wrote it, but statements like this, ime, fall under the category of, “If you tell a lie enough times, eventually people will believe it’s the truth”.
Whether the writer is aware of the fallacies within the post or not is almost irrelevant. If so, then he or she is purposely disseminating false information in order to advance an agenda. If not, then it just means that another person has swallowed the bait and is going to spread it as though it’s the gospel truth to another person who will possibly do the same. And the agenda (CCSS/reform) will be further advanced.
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Thank you for the correction, Gitapik. The NGA and CCSSO did NOT write CCSS. The CC standards were written by a committee headed by David Coleman and Jason Zimba of Student Achievement Partners. The plurality of members of the drafting committee were from the testing industry. There were no classroom educators, no one knowledgeable about special education or ELL or early childhood on the committee. Read Mercedes Schneider’s Common Core Dilemma for the full story. CC was bought and paid for by Bill Gates.
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This is all part of a big choo-choo train, and Gates or Zimba or NGA weren’t the designers of CCSS who appeared from nowhere and created the standard in what? two to three years. At least in relation to math, it goes back to NCTM 1991 Standards. Now after CCSS adopted integrated math as legitimate approach, the old NCTM programs that were hiding in the rat holes, are coming back with vengeance. When a parent and professor above talks about pitiful state of CCSS math in middle and high school, what he actually talks about is all these horrendous programs that were created way before CCSS, and which came from their half-dead state as walking zombies, like Connected Math or Core-Plus Math or other junk like that. The programs are used in school under the banner of Common Core. The CCSSM was a Trojan horse that brought these programs back. The reformers do not like to throw out stuff they’ve created, so they retreat, regroup and attack from the flank. They organized their latest attack quite well, for it was not obvious five years ago how it would end. Not that other programs much better. Saxon is just an inchoherent collection of topics and exercises. Holt is one that is the least horrible of them, probably. Frankly, they all suck big time, which is why I am using books purchased elsewhere, not provided by district. Frankly, my district does not provide math books for elementary and middle school – horror of horrors! – but seeing how bad these books are, this is probably for the best. Oh, and I can tell you that one DOES NOT neet to teach for the test for the kids to ace it. The tests are quite lame, and there is lots of time to do real math.
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I suggest you read Mercedes Schneider’s Common Core Dilemma. The CCSS were not derived from the NCTM standards of 1991, except that they both use the word “standards.”
Coleman and Gene Wilhoit of the Council of Chief State School Officers approached Gates and asked him to bankroll the Common Core. Without Gates’ money, there would be no Common Core.
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Diane,
how about this: https://www.brookings.edu/research/reading-and-math-in-the-common-core-era/
“Most state mathematics frameworks were modeled after the 1989 standards of the National Council of Teachers of Mathematics (NCTM), with the basic structure of math curriculum stable until adoption of the Common Core. Content was organized by five domains (or strands): number and operations; algebra; measurement; geometry; and data analysis (which includes statistics and probability). The NCTM standards envisioned these five math domains—even algebra—being taught every year from kindergarten through twelfth grade. To this day, NAEP has a similar five-strand structure and awards each strand a different weight. Common Core takes a more restricted view of mathematics than the five strand approach. That means fewer topics. David Coleman, leader of the Common Core project, has described CCSS as focusing on whole number arithmetic from kindergarten through fourth grade. Jason Zimba, one of the lead writers of the CCSS math standards states that they “revise the previous ‘strand model’ of mathematics content in order to emphasize arithmetic, algebra, and the connections between them.”
To me, the above says that Coleman & Zimba took NCTM Standards as a starting point and “revised” them, one may say simplified and shortened them, as simple as that. Do you believe they wrote their own standards from the start? Do you believe that NSF who bankrolled “New New Math” in the late 1980s, or NCTM that took to the task, or universities that did the actual job of creating these programs, or the publishing houses which poured millions in these programs, any of them – would they allow Coleman & Zimba to significantly deviate from NCTM standards? I don’t believe it.
What Coleman & Zimba did, they combed through NCTM standards, added ELA standards and called it Common Core. NCTM is one of the members of Common Core spec and supported it wholeheartedly: https://www.nctm.org/mathcommoncore/ Further, here https://www.nctm.org/uploadedFiles/Standards_and_Positions/Common_Core_State_Standards/Math_Standards.pdf it says: “The Standards for Mathematical Practice describe varieties of expertise that mathematics educators at all levels should seek to develop in their students. These practices rest on important “processes and proficiencies” with longstanding importance in mathematics education. The first of these are the NCTM process standards of problem solving, reasoning and proof, communication, representation, and connections. The second are the strands of mathematical proficiency specified in the National Research Council’s report.”
NSF, NRC, and NCTM are contributors if you will to CCSSM. CCSSM is recycled from NCTM Standards to ensure that money spend into developing NCTM-aligned programs are not lost. Their business decision was right: now, when the districts switch to integrated math, they accept the programs that they rejected 20 years ago. The same deeply flawed programs, with the only difference: they have “Common Core” label on them.
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Without Bill Gates’ agreement to pour unlimited resources into the development, writing, advocacy and promotion of Common Core, it would never have happened. No one paid for it but one man.
Have you read Mercedes Schneider’s book “Common Core Dilemma” yet??
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Diane, no I haven’t read Mercedes Schneider’s Common Core Dilemma. If I can get it on Kindle Unlimited, I might give it a try, otherwise I am not paying $30 for something I already more or less know.
But please read what I say, don’t just skim over.
I am not interested whether Bill Gates financed Common Core. What I am saying is that CCSSM did not get from nowhere, it is a rehashed NCTM standards, which NCTM itself pretty much admits.
Further, Ms. Schneider writes: “Both the NCTM and NCTE standards are completely voluntary: neither is connected to federal funding, neither is must be adopted on a “by state” basis, and neither is must be adopted in whole”.
Right here, she is either grossly mistaken or she glosses things over, and this alone makes me wary of her “findings”.
NCTM obtained money for its “research” through National Science Foundation, which is a federal agency, so it used federal money. Then under NCTM’s supervision, several universities created as many as 13 (thirteen) math programs. Then these programs were given to publishers to make profit (not just to recoup the money and return it to NSF, no siree). The publishers and the programs’ designers are interested in adoption of these programs. Twenty years ago this adoption stalled because many states including California created their own standards. But now California has switched to CC, the books received CC seal of approval, and are back in the schools. It is a classic retreat and attack from a flank. And now we are circled, because there are no math programs that are both integrated and are not developed by NCTM guidelines. We are screwed.
Gates very much could have financed the CC boondoggle, but its content was not created by Coleman and Zimba from scratch – it clearly is a re-hashed version of NCTM and NCTE. Now, everyone (of them, not of us) wins: Gates gets CCSS to write computerized tests for, Pearson gets publishing contracts, Coleman gets SAT aligned with CC and guarantee from the universities that they will accept students who pass CC-aligned exams.
My point is, they are all in that. Gates is just a major financier, but the core of the Common Core comes from NCTM and NCTE.
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When Common Core first came out, I was at a Leadership Conference for officers of state affiliates of NCTM (I was then president of the Rhode Island Mathematics Teachers Association). Attending that conference was the then President of NCTM who explained to us that NCTM had not been involved in any part of thre creation of Common Core, but since the purpose of NCTM, in part, is to support teachers at all levels, they were working to see what align,ent might exist between the NCTM Principles and Standards and .commin Core. Any statements on their website nowadays reflects years of their working to find ways to support teachers who must use the CCSSM every day.
NCTM revised their initial standards after a long series of discussion groups across the country with classroom teachers K-12 having input (I participated in a series of those sessions). When their 2000 Principles and Standards for School Mathematics was published, it was after teachers had had their say regarding all facets of that document….state education departments of education held similar discussions (at least in RI), but not, I think, to the same degree as NCTM did. CCSSM was accepted at the state level because of Race to the Top funds. NCTM standards were never mandated; they were suggested.
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Susan, I am not privy to the internal discussions among NCTM members, but the external documents and videos that I can see, show that NCTM has fully embraced CCSSM. They show NCTM standards and CCSSM on the same timeline and they talk about 25 years of development of the standards. The difference between NCTM being “suggested” and CCSSM being “accepted” is meager to me, it is akin charter schools being “non-profit” vs private schools being for profit, or something like that. NCTM does not make money directly of its standards, but numerous programs that were spawned under NCTM guidance and NSF funding, do. As NCTM were pushing the integrated/investigative/collaborative/technology agenda, all the programs developed under NCTM standards followed this pattern. Now CCSSM picked up the banner, re-hashed the standards and lent its seal of approval to quarter-century old programs. This is clear profit to the authors of NCTM-guided programs, and it is an easy approach by CCSSM crowd to “create” standards. Everybody – from NCTM, CCSS and publishers’ crowd – wins.
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What is falls about that statement? Do the states not choose their own standards and assessments? Were the organizations listed not responsible for common core and parcc? This is an honest question.
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I know this is a long thread, LA. I sometimes don’t want to read through long threads, myself, so I can understand that you mIay have missed the replies that cover your question.
It was a two part statement. It’s important that this is stressed because the first part had to do with who actually WROTE the standards, which ties in to the second part (assessments).
It was NOT the Board of Governors, as the poster said. They signed on to the concept of national standards, regardless of the fact that they’d never even read them. They hadn’t read them because they weren’t yet completed or vetted/tested (the latter was never implemented, btw).
As Diane says, above: the writers of the standards were headed by David Coleman and Jason Zimba, who had been bankrolled by Bill Gates. Here is a link to a list of the people they’d hired:
https://seattleducation.com/common-core-standards/who-wrote-the-common-core-standards-the-common-core-24/
There was a TON of knowledge excluded from this grand endeavor, LA. The experts in the field were considered part of the “old guard” who’d so miserably failed generations of children. New blood would save the day.
Second part had to do with your question: the assessments.
Race to the Top was the brainchild of Obama and Arne Duncan (his Secretary of Education). In order to get the money offered by the Feds, the states had to sign on to the CCSS bandwagon.
This also required adoption of CCSS aligned curriculum and assessment. Pearson made a fortune: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2015/09/23/common-core-the-gift-that-pearson-counts-on-to-keep-giving/?utm_term=.0dbad2e90238.
(The “assessment” part of the package applied to the teachers as well as the students, btw. Our effectiveness is tied in to the test scores. It’s called “VAM” or “Value Added Measures”).
As I said: maybe you haven’t read the entire thread. Mate’s got it down pretty well here. So I leave you with this (WARNING: sarcastic and vitriolic content):
MG “States are, and have always been, free to choose both what standards the use and what assessments they use.”
Nevertheless, somehow, accidentally and miraculously, they ended up with CC (and also with VAM).
Why? State politicians analyzed the decades long research that went into developing and backing up this system, consulted thousands of teachers and happily raced to the top.
Mercedes Schneider investigates the background of CC and Race to the Top, in particular, she looks into the MOU the purpose of which is:
“Purpose: This document commits states to a state-led process that will draw on evidence and lead to development and adoption of a common core of state standards (common core) in English language arts and mathematics for grades K-12. These standards will be aligned with college and work expectations, include rigorous content and skills, and be internationally benchmarked. The intent is that these standards will be aligned to state assessment and classroom practice. The second phase of this initiative will be the development of common assessments aligned to the core standards developed through this process.”
Her comment
“Not only was the product, CCSS, never tested; in signing this MOU, states agreed to an as-of-yet undeveloped “second phase” of “common assessments.”
It sure sounds like the state signing these MOUs are “following,” not “leading.”
Mercedes concludes with
“So. The “background” of CCSS is rooted in both Achieve, Inc., and NECAP, and the background of Achieve is rooted in ALEC, and the background of both is rooted in Gates.”
But never forget that it is the “states” that are “leading” this CCSS effort.
[…]
In the next section, “Benefits to the States,” NGA and CCSSO are making promises. But keep in mind that the states signing the MOU are committing to a process that they agree to implement (in the future), not one that they themselves have already written. So to make promises of what CCSS is supposed to do in the future while calling it “state led” for states just signing on is a contradiction.
This article, also by Mercedes, also points out the ties between Pearson and CCSS, and discusses VAM. Shady story about top down management and politics
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/mercedes-schneider/nea-aft-common-core-and-v_b_4252679.html
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What if we step back and up a few steps from discussing the merits of national educational standards and look at, from a distance above, the possible utility of such standards and ask “Do we really need them?”
In trying to answer this question, can we learn something from how the exact sciences and their community work?
Let us look at the relationship between theoretical and experimental scientists, and compare it mentally with the relationship between education leaders and teachers.
In the exact sciences, nobody calls theorists “leaders”, since no sane theorists think, they have the authority to tell experimentalists what and how to do.
I do not think it’s possible to find any theorist who, in her right mind, would support a national committee that would prescribe in standards how the experimentalists should conduct their experiments and test theories.
Nobody listens to theorists who blame the repeated experimental failure of a theory on the competence of the researchers conducting the experiment.
Yeah, the exact sciences and education are different. But: the exact sciences are exact, hence national standards could be written in a 100% precise language, every scientist would understand them, and there would be no possibility for misinterpretation. Still, scientists don’t do it. Why? Because it would fatally confine them. Do we see utter chaos in how the exact sciences are conducted despite lack of high level leadership? Does this lack of federal operational guidelines and control results in low level science in our country that doesn’t keep up with the rest of the World?
Can we discover some similarity to teachers and their relationship to federal standards and their creators? Isn’t the community of educators closer in spirit to the community of scientists than to the community of business and politics which presently try to enforce their values on educators?
We could go a bit further in looking into what scientists are doing, and turn to evaluations: do the exact sciences need a central evaluation system in addition to or replace the peer review system they have been using for many centuries and in some cases even for millenniums? Do scientists need to be pressured via central evaluations to keep their research nationally and internationally relevant?
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