Other countries regulate guns the way we regulate automobiles.
You can’t just walk into a dealer and buy a car. You have to be a licensed driver. You have to pass tests. You have to renew your license periodically. The car must be registered. It must be inspected regularly.
Sure, there are accidents with cars. But the car was not designed to kill. Guns are designed to kill. They should be treated as the lethal weapons they are. Every gun should be registered. Every gun owner should be licensed and subject to tests at least as rigorous and as regular as drivers. Every gun owner should be legally liable for the misuse of his or her gun.
The United States has minimal requirements for buying a gun. Although some cities restrict gun ownership, guns are readily available in most states and at gun shows and on the Internet. A purchaser might buy a gun in less than an hour.
Other countries have established high barriers to gun ownership. It is possible to buy a gun but not easy.
Japan
1. Join a hunting or shooting club.
2. Take a firearm class and pass a written exam, which is held up to three times a year.
3. Get a doctor’s note saying you are mentally fit and do not have a history of drug abuse.
4. Apply for a permit to take firing training, which may take up to a month.
5. Describe in a police interview why you need a gun.
6. Pass a review of your criminal history, gun possession record, employment, involvement with organized crime groups, personal debt and relationships with friends, family and neighbors.
7. Apply for a gunpowder permit.
8. Take a one-day training class and pass a firing test.
9. Obtain a certificate from a gun dealer describing the gun you want.
10. Buy a gun safe and an ammunition locker that meet safety regulations.
11. Allow the police to inspect your gun storage.
12. Pass an additional background review.
13. Buy a gun.
Japan has the lowest rate of gun homicides in the world.
Australia
After the Port Arthur Massacre in 1996, where a man methodically killed 35 random people and injured many more at a popular tourist site, Australia made it more difficult to get a gun. Gun ownership is a privilege, not a right.
1. Join and regularly attend a hunting or shooting club, or document that you’re a collector.
2. Complete a course on firearm safety and operation, and pass a written test and practical assessment.
3. Arrange firearm storage that meets safety regulations.
4. Pass a review that considers criminal history, domestic violence, restraining orders and arrest history. Authorities may also interview your family and community members.
5. Apply for a permit to acquire a specific type of weapon.
6. Wait at least 28 days.
7. Buy the specific type of gun you received a permit for.
The article in the New York Times describes the gun laws in 13 other countries.
Those who mistakenly claim that the Second Amendment protects their unlimited right to buy any kind of gun ignore the fact that Congress banned assault weapons from 1994-2004. Before the ban was passed, it was endorsed by former Presidents Ronald Reagan, Gerald Ford, and Jimmy Carter.
The Second Amendment does not prevent us from regulating guns. The NRA and their bought politicians do.
Diane Ravitch's blog 
Thank you for this. It’s time for gun control, I think most people have had enough of the massacres and want real action on controlling guns. Guns and bullets damn well do kill people. Strict gun regulations and the 2nd amendment are not mutually exclusive. It should be hard to purchase a gun and it should take a few months to complete the transaction.
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Agreed. These regulations make sense, and they will save lives. Our Constitution says nothing against having rules for guns, and it was written during a very different times. Some regulation is necessary.
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One suggestion.
AFTER you call your representative and senator, CALL your local newspaper and tv station and tell them you just called your representative and senator. Hold them and their sponsors responsible to report on officials who are not doing their job.
The sickness out of DC is only surpassed by the hypocrisy of those who would have crucified President Obama for 1/100th of what this president has done and the acceptance of the president’s and DC lies, reverse-robin hood legislation, and deregulation of anything that protected the environment, the poor, and non-white males.
Why would guns be any different?
More murders. So what? The president tweets the WH will do everything it can. He’ll go complain about gangs. The base believes that and elected officials ride it out. Business (literally) as usual.
It’s sick.
Mo. Senator Blunt’s received over $3 million from the NRA. Zero comments about any of the school shootings. No interviews. Not even “thoughts and prayers.” He ignores murders in the streets. Probably hasn’t set foot on an urban street in years. Sick.
Why aren’t the media on the doorstep of every elected official demanding comments?
Why aren’t officials pressed to hold public meetings?
To paraphrase Arlo Guthrie, “can you imagine 50 people a day, 50 people a day, calling their local newspaper about unresponsive officials…
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Indiana LOVES its guns. These two off duty officers found out how safe guns are making us.
……………………………….
[NWI Times] UPDATE: Two off-duty police officers shot outside Growlers Bar in Highland early Saturday morning
…Sources identified the man shot in the head as East Chicago police officer David Aguilera, who was at the bar as a patron. He was bleeding from the brain and eventually transported to Advocate Christ Medical Center in Oak Lawn, Illinois, sources said. His condition was not available late Saturday morning.
The other man shot — an off-duty Gary officer named Dwayne Brown who was working as a bouncer at the bar — was taken to Methodist Hospitals Northlake Campus in Gary and eventually released, sources said…
http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/update-two-off-duty-police-officers-shot-outside-growlers-bar/article_f901e751-1cf1-50e5-96ca-dd61d6a53e29.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=email&utm_campaign=user-share
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I suggest that everyone keep an eye on firearms sales in the next weeks after this shooting. Sales will not experience a “spike”. There is no serious push to enact any more firearms control legislation. The people know it.
Politicians are constrained by the 2d amendment, and their oaths to preserve and protect the constitution.
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Constrained by the 2nd amendment how so? And who are these constitutional scholars . Certainly in other areas, concern for the constitution does not seem to be much of a concern . Those with a perverted notion of the 2nd amendment have no problem attacking the 1st amendment on several levels .The 4th amendment Nor do most have a concern for their responsibility in article 1 section 8 . Having last exercised that responsibility on 12/8/1941 .
As that the strictest gun laws in the Nation are constitutionally sound or have not been knocked down.Would you argue that the constitution does not prevent the states from doing so but restricts the federal Government.
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If automobiles had been invented in the late 18th century, there would be an amendment protecting drivers’ rights, and the auto owners’ association would be fighting efforts to license cars and drivers.
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The right to drive is certainly more fundamental to most Americans than the right to bear arms. And I don’t even own a car!
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FLERP!
Fellow New Yorker, completely off topic . The NY Times yesterday had a piece on what really caused the massive increase in Subway delays.
Mirrors a link I had posted but more in depth. . . I would post it but the URL would take half the page. As I said the system is not falling apart . The title :”How 2 M.T.A. Decisions Pushed the Subway Into Crisis”
The short of it when you intentionally slow down trains for saftey reasons spacing , rules and speed . Trains slow down .. When you put up the equivalent of red light cameras ,with heavy fines , drivers (motorman) slow approaching the green light and stop on yellow
The long of it . Cuomo starts a pissing war with DeBlasio . The most complicated system in the world is portrayed as a. basket case . The anti Union Center For Union Facts uses the non crisis to attack Unions public and private and Nixon proves she is not ready for prime time joining the assault.
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“… the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed”. That is the constraint that the constitution puts on the government, and since politicians are under oath to preserve, protect, and defend the constitution, they are thus constrained. Simple. If you need further clarification, see Heller v. District of Columbia (2008).
There are a variety of firearms statutes on the books in the USA, federal/state/municipal. The existing statues must meet constitutional muster, or else they would be struck down by the courts. (Again, see the Heller decision, where the Supreme Court struck down an unconstitutional law in WashDC)
The firearms legislation in the several states, obviously varies from state to state. Under our federal system, the states are empowered to enact firearms legislation (provided that the legislation is in conformance with the federal constitution).
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Charles, you forgot the beginning of the sentence, about the need for a well-regulated militia.
Do you think the Founding Fathers would support the right of children to “bear arms”? How about the right of babies to bear arms, the toddlers who pick up Daddy’s gun and kill Mommy?
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Q Charles, you forgot the beginning of the sentence, about the need for a well-regulated militia.
Do you think the Founding Fathers would support the right of children to “bear arms”? How about the right of babies to bear arms, the toddlers who pick up Daddy’s gun and kill Mommy? END Q
I did not forget the prefatory clause, I omitted it, in the quotation, and indicated the omission with the (…).
The 2d amendment has two clauses, the prefatory clause refrains the federal government from infringing on the right of the states to have their own militias. (Territories and the District of Columbia have national guards, as well).
I believe that the framers were reasonable individuals, who would not be supportive of individuals below the age of majority, in having unfettered and unrestricted access to deadly weapons.
I also believe that the framers were understanding of the need for law-abiding adults to keep and bear arms for legitimate purposes. The new United States, in 1789, had potentially hostile powers on its borders. (War actually broke out with British Canada in 1812). The population was dispersed in rural areas, and only four cities had populations over 50,000. Rural people needed firearms to hunt game for food, and for protection from hostile native tribes and wild animals.
The conditions of 21st century life, are remarkably different from 1789. Perhaps it is time, to revisit the 2d amendment, and modify/repeal certain of its provisions.
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Charles
Here is what you forgot . The sheriff told the gunslinger to hand over his weapons before he entered the Town . So here it is translated into case law.
Heller only ruled on the right of a person to keep a fire arm in his home .
The two previous court decisions upheld the concept of militias and the right belonging to the states . Without having to look up case law on the internet . The 1939 Miller case ruled that a sawed off shot gun had nothing to do with a well regulated militia. The post civil war case
Cruikshank 1876 ruled that “infringed” did not refer to States. So there was nothing the court could do to prevent a state that said blacks can not own fire arms.
But Heller I will quote.
“Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues. The Court’s opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms. Miller’s holding that the sorts of weapons protected are those “in common use at the time” finds support in the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons. ”
So it would seem that the individual right to bear arms is a new right that was created in 2008 . And may yet be altered by a new court in the next case. after 2020 .
John Paul Stevens stated that the court’s judgment was “a strained and unpersuasive reading” which overturned longstanding precedent, and that the court had “bestowed a dramatic upheaval in the law”.[52] Stevens also stated that the amendment was notable for the “omission of any statement of purpose related to the right to use firearms for hunting or personal self-defense” which was present in the Declarations of Rights of Pennsylvania and Vermont.[52]
“The Stevens dissent seems to rest on four main points of disagreement: that the Founders would have made the individual right aspect of the Second Amendment express if that was what was intended; that the “militia” preamble and exact phrase “to keep and bear arms” demands the conclusion that the Second Amendment touches on state militia service only; that many lower courts’ later “collective-right” reading of the Miller decision constitutes stare decisis, which may only be overturned at great peril; and that the Court has not considered gun-control laws (e.g., the National Firearms Act) unconstitutional. The dissent concludes, “The Court would have us believe that over 200 years ago, the Framers made a choice to limit the tools available to elected officials wishing to regulate civilian uses of weapons…. I could not possibly conclude that the Framers made such a choice.”
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Thanks for posting this, Diane
An article in The Onion carries this headline:
“No Way to Prevent This,” Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens
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One of The Country’s Most Powerful Police Chiefs Is Calling for Gun Control After the Texas School Shooting…Mother Jones
The evening after a gunman killed 10 people at a high school in Santa Fe, Texas, Houston police chief Art Acevedo took to Facebook to write an impassioned plea for gun control, writing that he had hit “rock bottom” after the massacre.
To all my Facebook friends. Today I spent the day dealing with another mass shooting of children and a responding police officer who is clinging to life. I’m not ashamed to admit I’ve shed tears of sadness, pain and anger.
I know some have strong feelings about gun rights but I want you to know I’ve hit rock bottom and I am not interested in your views as it pertains to this issue. Please do not post anything about guns aren’t the problem and there’s little we can do. My feelings won’t be hurt if you de-friend me and I hope yours won’t be if you decide to post about your views and I de-friend you.
I have never accepted the status-quo in anything I do and I’ve never accepted defeat. And I won’t do it now. I will continue to speak up and will stand up for what my heart and my God commands me to do, and I assure you he hasn’t instructed me to believe that gun-rights are bestowed by him.
The hatred being spewed in our country and the new norms we, so-called people of faith are accepting, is as much to blame for so much of the violence in our once pragmatic Nation.
This isn’t a time for prayers, and study and Inaction, it’s a time for prayers, action and the asking of God’s forgiveness for our inaction (especially the elected officials that ran to the cameras today, acted in a solemn manner, called for prayers, and will once again do absolutely nothing).
I close by saying, I wish those that move on from this page the best. May God Bless you and keep you…
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/05/one-of-the-countrys-most-powerful-police-chiefs-is-calling-for-gun-control-after-the-texas-school-shooting/
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Thanks for posting this!
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After yet another school shooting, NASA announces new program to search for intelligent life in Washington, DC.
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There isn’t any intelligent life in DC.
This was put out by Rachael Maddow: “GOP member of Science Committee blames falling rocks for sea-level rise”
How about this one from WaPo? Faith in America, Vice President Mike Pence said, is “rising again” because of Trump and his administration.
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OMG …
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Yes, religion is on the rise thanks to the most irreligious immoral unethical president in history.
By the way, the authors of the study cited by Pence said he misinterpreted their finding. Religion is not on the rise.
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Diane is correct. The latest polls I see show those claiming to be without belief in a supreme being increasing faster than any sect. This from a friend who is a minister. Naturally, I do not believe someone just because he claims to believe a certain way. But if you go into churches, the gray on the heads of the communicants will make a much more concise statement than all of the Gallopping, Harrissing, and polling you ever want to do.
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How to prevent shootings in school?
This is a radical idea, but it can be used for good or evil. It’s hard to trust Duncan, but it has its fascinating aspects to it:
https://www.aol.com/article/news/2018/05/20/obamas-education-secretary-boycott-schools-until-gun-control-laws-are-passed/23439320/
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The perpetrator in the Santa Fe shooting used a shotgun. Maybe there will be calls for banning of shotguns. A firearm is a tool, it has no mind of its own. Maybe this time, there will be some serious action on mental health issues.
Schools will never be made safe. They can only be made safer. There is a myriad of serious and real actions that can be taken, without infringing on our 2d amendment rights.
I am getting numb at this carnage.
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If you’re getting numb at this carnage, as you state, then you are getting desensitized to it. Do you really think that’s healthy?
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I am an engineer, not a psychologist. I am not sure how I feel. When I was in high school (admittedly, many years ago). The biggest problem was chewing gum. Maybe the occasional bully, and some kids smoked pot. That was about it.
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Guns are really making people safe. People are falling like flies. Guns don’t kill. What other country maintains such a stupid quote?
…….
Police: 2 arrests in fatal shooting after Georgia graduation
JONESBORO, Ga. (AP) — Police announced the arrests of two people Saturday in a fatal shooting outside a high school graduation ceremony in Georgia.
One woman was killed and another was wounded by gunfire Friday night following an argument in a high school parking lot across from the Clayton County Performing Arts Center, where the Perry Career Academy had just held its commencement for graduating seniors.
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution reported that Clayton County Police spokeswoman Marcena Davis confirmed the arrests, but said their names and charges are not being released yet. Local media reported that police said two people began shooting at each other after the argument, and that one victim was fatally wounded with shots to the chest, while the other was taken to a hospital with leg wounds.
The arrests were made after investigators interviewed several people late into the night, Davis said…Clayton County Public Schools Superintendent Morcease Beasley tweeted Saturday that “hearts are made heavy” by the violence.
The shooting happened in Jonesboro, about 20 miles (32 kilometers) south of Atlanta, in a high school parking lot used for overflow parking outside the graduation of more than 200 students from the career academy.
https://www.sfgate.com/news/texas/article/Chief-2-shot-after-Georgia-high-school-12927264.php?utm_campaign=email-desktop&utm_source=CMS%20Sharing%20Button&utm_medium=social
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Crazy. This country has a mental health crisis.
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Thanks for this post, Diane.
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We have TOO many guns and it is TOO easy to buy another one. There needs to be a buyback program and stringent laws with lots of hoops to jump through. If nothing continues to be done, this will occur over and over and over and over again. Is this fear the America we all want? Fear to exist?
…………………………
Police say Dimitrios Pagourtzis used a pistol and a shotgun, firearms that even gun-control advocates generally regard as utilitarian.
Las Vegas introduced Americans to the rapid-fire lethality of bump stocks. Parkland reminded the public how quickly someone can inflict mass carnage with an AR-15, the weapon of choice in many rampages.
But Friday’s shooting at Santa Fe High School, which left 10 dead, was carried out with a pistol and a shotgun — firearms that even gun-control advocates generally regard as utilitarian.
The reality that weapons not included in proposed assault-rifle bans can still exact a double-digit death toll further complicates a wrenching national debate about how to prevent future tragedies.
“That’s true” that weapons other than assault rifles can kill many people at once, conceded Avery W. Gardiner, co-president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, which favors a federal ban on assault rifles but not on shotguns or pistols.
Gardiner added, however, that “the reason most mass shootings are conducted with assault weapons is that shooters know full well what weapon to select, if they want to kill the most amount of people in the shortest amount of time possible, and that’s an AR-15-style gun with a large-capacity magazine. If this shooter had had one of those, quite likely there would have been more deaths and injuries. But we don’t know.”…
http://thebaltimorepost.com/you-can-do-this-with-anything-santa-fe-shooting-suspects-choice-of-guns-complicates-debate-over-assault-rifles/
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This is a plan that would work. Doubt that it will catch on.
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Obama Education secretary: Pull children out of schools until gun laws change..From TheHill.com:
Former Education Secretary Arne Duncan said Friday that it was “tragically necessary” for parents to pull their children out of school en masse until U.S. gun laws are changed.
In a tweet, the former Obama administration official asked what would happen if no children went to school until “gun laws changed to keep them safe.”
“My family is all in if we can do this at scale. Parents, will you please join us?” he asked…
Democrats and anti gun violence activists reacted to Friday’s shootings with calls to vote out Republicans who oppose gun control measures in November’s midterm elections.
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/388468-obama-education-secretary-pull-children-out-of-schools-until
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In my state, that would absolutely DESTROY our budgets, because our budgets are based on average daily attendance.
Besides, Duncan’s faux outrage is pretty rich, coming from a guy who had almost eight years as a major force in the excecutive branch to lobby hard for something to happen. He rarely, if ever, said ANYTHING about gun violence while he was Secretary of Education. Now that he’s got his money, NOW he speaks?????
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Threatened: There is so much corruption and hypocrisy in our government. How did we ever get to a place so far removed from the original plan of freedom for all and government for and by the people? Now, its okay for children to be killed and nothing comes except ‘thoughts and prayers’. I haven’t read much of that this time around. I think people are getting sick of it.
I wish there was a way to get strict gun control. It has to happen or these killings will become more frequent as the number of guns in society increases. The NRA works to promote fear. Protect yourself and your home by purchasing a gun, or a number of guns. Arm teachers. BS!!
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I’m totally with you on this. Gun control needs to happen NOW, and should have happened after Columbine, and especially after Newtown. HOW could our “leaders” stand by with the deaths of babies and not do SOMETHING?
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Politicians who have sold their soul and their vote stay bought.
They offer “thoughts and prayers” when children die because of their inaction.
They should all be voted out of office.
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Q Politicians who have sold their soul and their vote stay bought.
They offer “thoughts and prayers” when children die because of their inaction.
They should all be voted out of office. END Q
I am having trouble latching on to this line of reasoning. Politicians have several goals, serving their constituents and getting re-elected (and other goals, as well).
Also, they are bound to the constitution, including the 2d amendment (not all politicians enthusiastically support this amendment, I concede).
If the people vote out, all politicians who do not support firearms rights, then who will replace them? A new batch of politicians, who are similarly constrained by the 2d amendment (and the remainder of the constitution).
I submit, that the only way to deal with the 2d amendment, is to get the amendment repealed. We have a government of laws, not a government of men/women.
Since the amendment process requires 3/4 of the states to assent to repeal, and states like Wyoming and Alaska will never assent, then repeal is just not in the foreseeable future.
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The Second Amendment does not guarantee unlimited access to guns. Why did Congress ban assault weapons for 10 years from 1994-2000 with no challenge to its constitutionality?
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None of our rights are absolute. The old adage of not being able to shout “fire” in a crowded theater, is quite correct. Freedom of the press, does not confer the right to libel.
Government has the right and the responsibility to enact reasonable and necessary legislation that will restrict the improper use of deadly weapons, while simultaneously protecting the rights of law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms, for legitimate use. It is a difficult “balancing act”, and Congress does not always get it right.
Congress has the right to restrict/ban access to certain “classes” of firearms. (See Miller v. US ,1939). Using this construct, Congress passed the ban on certain types of “military style assault” weapons for a ten-year period. see
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/02/22/the-real-reason-congress-banned-assault-weapons-in-1994-and-why-it-worked/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.d56d6e8f6422
There was never a serious attempt to challenge the constitutionality of the ban, due to the Miller decision. It would have been pointless.
The consensus of opinion, is that the ban you cite, had little discernible impact on the overall level of firearms crime. Keep in mind, that the alleged shooter in the Santa Fe shooting did not have an assault rifle, and was still able to kill ten individuals, and hold off law enforcement, alone, for over 30 minutes.
Congress saw that re-enacting the ban would be pointless, and therefore decided not to renew it.
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Charles, you have convinced me. There should be a recall of all guns not owned by law enforcement or military.
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Q you have convinced me. There should be a recall of all guns not owned by law enforcement or military. END Q
I had no idea that you favored a ban on private ownership of firearms. How would you accomplish such a “recall”?
I can envision federal agents, driving to a remote cabin in Wyoming, and knocking on the door. The owner answers the door. The feds flash their IDs and badges. The feds tell the owner: “We are from the federal government. We are here to recall your firearms. You will hand over all of your firearms, and all of your ammunition.”
The citizen tells the feds. “Thanks for stopping by. Here are my weapons and ammunition. Have a nice day”.
FAT CHANCE!
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Tough if you don’t like it. Blood is on your hands too
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It is not a case of my not “liking” the concept of a national firearms recall. I was just attempting to use a humorous and ridiculous example of the impossibility of a national firearms ban and recall.
Tell me, how would you accomplish such a recall? Would it not require the repeal of the 2d amendment?
And then there are over 180 million Americans who own at least one firearm. Many Americans own multiple firearms. Some keep their weapons in their homes. Some keep them at a firing range, or alternate location, like a skeet/trap club.
And have you considered the financial and logistical costs of confiscating 300+ million privately owned firearms? And the costs of reimbursing firearms owners?
And would you restrict firearms ownership solely to municipal/state police and active-duty military? Would you still permit states/territories to keep their militias (national guard)? How about private security guards, like for banks and airports?
There is no national data base on privately-held firearms. Millions of firearms are “off the grid”, unregistered and unaccountable. My uncle makes Kentucky long rifles in his workshop, none are registered. He makes his own bullets and gunpowder, entirely out of the view of the ATF agents.
And how do I have “blood on my hands”? I don’t even like guns, and I refuse to have one in my home. Guns give me the “heebeejeebies”.
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Charles, you have posted dozens of times here that ”nothing can be done”to control or regulate firearms.
You have also posted with glee whenever money is diverted from Public schools to private and religious schools.
Don’t go hypocrite.
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Be fair. I am 100% in favor of reasonable and necessary firearms regulations, consistent with the 2d amendment, and the Heller decision.
Congress/states/municipalities MUST enact workable legislation to protect innocent citizens.
-Keep firearms away from dangerous mentally ill people.
-Ban exploding ammunition, and “cop-killer” armor-piercing bullets
-Keep firearms away from domestic abusers
-Require age-appropriate firearms safety training in schools, to teach children to NEVER touch a gun, and to RUN for an adult immediately.
-Track huge purchases of ammunition. No one should be able to go into a store and buy 10,000 rounds all at once (without being questioned, and identified)
-Improve and require point-of-sale background checks for firearms purchases
-Require mandatory weapons safety training for individuals planning to purchase a firearm.
-Require firearms owners with children at home, to purchase trigger locks and gun safes.
-Promote VOLUNTARY buy-back programs, for people who do not wish to keep a firearm in their homes. Better to sell it to the local police station, than to put it on Ebay.
-Increase mandatory supplemental prison sentencing for individuals convicted of firearms crime. Slap an additional 5-15 years of prison time, on top of the sentence received for the underlying crime.
There are MANY things that our governments can do, to reduce firearms crime, and make our society safer, without infringing on the rights of law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms, for legitimate purposes.
Our nation is NOT helpless, in the face of firearms-related crime. We just have to find the backbone, to take the necessary steps.
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Charles: Gun manufacturers should be held liable for any deaths that occur from their product.
Who Is Eligible to Sue Tobacco Companies?
Lawsuits against tobacco companies can be brought by individuals or as class actions lawsuits:
Individual Claims
If you have suffered an injury as a result of smoking or exposure to second-hand smoke, you can file a lawsuit against the tobacco companies. Furthermore, if a family member has passed away as a result of a smoking-related illness, you can sue the tobacco companies on behalf of both yourself and the deceased. Speak to an experienced personal injury attorney immediately to learn more about preserving your rights and remedies.
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Q Gun manufacturers should be held liable for any deaths that occur from their product. END Q
@Carol: You are quite mistaken. See this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protection_of_Lawful_Commerce_in_Arms_Act
The Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act (PLCAA) is a United States law which protects firearms manufacturers and dealers from being held liable when crimes have been committed with their products.
By your reasoning, if a person took a baseball bat, and beat a person to death, then the manufacturer of the baseball bat, would be held responsible and liable for the death.
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Charles: “The Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act (PLCAA) is a United States law which protects firearms manufacturers and dealers from being held liable when crimes have been committed with their products.”
I know that this law exists. I’m saying it showed bad thinking by Congress and was a give away to gun lobbyists.
How many mass murders have been committed by baseball bats? How many schools are now putting up high security equipment due to the number of baseball deaths on the baseball fields?
Personally, I don’t think the Las Vegas killer would have done much if he’d been welding a high powered baseball bat.
What are the statistics on baseball deaths? Do they number over 30,000 a year? When they do, I’ll consider your thoughts on needing laws to control these devils that kill.
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Charles,
Laws are written by Congress and can be repealed and rewritten by Congress.
Gun manufacturers are Merchants of Death. They should be liable for the murders they facilitate, just as the tobacco companies were held liable.
The opioid manufacturers should also be held liable for their aggressive marketing of their product.
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The baseball bat analogy was just an example. All sorts of tools are used by people, to inflict harm, including lethal force on other people. A person was sentenced to 12 years for killing another boy with a baseball bat. see
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/12-years-for-baseball-bat-killer/
No one ever considered legal action against the bat manufacturer.
A person used a van to drive into a crowd, and killed ten people. see
http://time.com/5251437/toronto-van-attack-latest/
No one considered legal action against the vehicle manufacturer.
Why would anyone think that firearms manufacturers should be held liable for crimes committed by people using their products?
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Because guns are meant for killing?
You can’t hit a baseball with a gun.
You can’t drive a gun.
You can’t use a gun to cook or clean.
What can you do with a gun? Kill.
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Why is it that after these shootings almost no one will point out the 6,000 lb elephant in the living room?
This country was built on the death and destruction not only of the original inhabitants but the now largely forgotten Africans who were chained and enslaved and brought to this land. That death and destruction, the lifeblood of this country, has been amplified and sanitized now since WW2, so much so, that to question the cult of death and destruction-especially the military, one is seen not only “unpatriotic” but not of a right mind. How goddamned sick is that?
Until we break the hold that death and destruction as epitomized by the US military and our militarized law enforcement, which seeps through the pores of this country like sweat on a 100 degree day, WE SHOULD EXPECT more mass murders and killings. But oh, we wail and moan when it happens. One reaps what one sows. Sad!
Death and destruction normalized-that is America today!
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Oh, and “regulating guns” will do absolutely nothing to stop the death and destruction, nothing!
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The NRA, in its sick analysis, probably considers this shooting a “win.” No semi-automatic weapons. No underage purchasers. Just good old-fashioned pistols and shotguns. Perfect for the argument that “see, I told you, even if you take away all the semi-autos, people will find a way to kill.”
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No one considers any school shooting a “win”. The fact that the alleged perpetrator did not use a rifle, does not win any points. Nevertheless, the continual focusing on types/classes of firearms, fails to address the larger problem.
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I agree, Charles. The problem is not the type of gun. The problem is the lack of regulation of these deadly weapons.
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I think the NRA is perfectly capable of considering something like this to be a win.
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What sort of regulations are you advocating? Firearms are already the most highly regulated consumer product on the market.
Would it not be more productive, to take a “holistic” view on reducing school violence?
Should our society not be addressing the mental health issues, of these sick individuals who pick up deadly weapons, and then go snuffing out innocent lives? Can we not monitor school children, who exhibit the warning signs and “red flags”? The alleged Parkland shooter had some 39 separate police calls at his residence.
Can we not work to provide for improved school security? Video cameras, trained professional security guards, fencing, alarms, etc.
I maintain, that firearms are only a very small part of the overall picture. Of course, legislation can be enacted to restrict access by children to deadly weapons. The Sandy Hook shooter, and the Santa Fe alleged shooter got their weapons from their parents. Restricting access of purchases of firearms by minors would have made no different. But that does not mean, that we cannot enact such legislation. Maybe it makes gun-control people feel better, I do not know.
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How about a total recall of every gun in America that is not owned by a law-enforcement or military person?
I’m for that.
We could rest easy that our children won’t be murdered in school or on the streets and that babies won’t accidentally kill a sibling or a parent.
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Diane: “How about a total recall of every gun in America that is not owned by a law-enforcement or military person?”
You are aware that Australia had a successful buyback program. I see that as absolutely necessary to get guns off the streets. If it takes 20 years or more, who cares how long?
My daughter wants my 6th grade grandson to carry a cell phone so that he can call home if someone comes in the school shooting. I don’t know what good that will do, but how can we continue to exist in this atmosphere of fear?
The NRA is a domestic terrorist association that promotes fear so that everyone will purchase a gun, or more guns, to ‘keep our families safe’. It is this promotion of unregulated guns that is the problem.
The newest gizmo: Ritalin is now the cause of gun deaths. BS. Oliver North, NRA’s incoming president appeared on Fox News two days after a gunman killed 10 people in Santa Fe High School. He blamed Ritalin for the shooting.
“Nearly all of these perpetrators are male and they’re young teenagers in most cases,” North said. “Many of these young boys have been on Ritalin since they were in kindergarten.”
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@Flerp: How can you arrive at this conclusion? No one considers 10 innocent lives snuffed out, to be a win. Gun rights advocates abhor violence, both for its intrinsic brutality and senselessness, and because every mass shooting renews calls for more restrictions on firearms rights.
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Gun rights zealots have blood on their hands.
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This is a letter that I wrote and was printed in The Times of NW Indiana shortly after the shooting in Parkland, Florida.
…………………………………
Congress ignores data about guns in setting policy
In the last fifty years alone, more civilians have lost their lives to firearms within the United States than have been killed in uniform in all the wars in American history. All developed nations regulate firearms more stringently than we do. Compared with the citizens of twenty-two other high-income countries, Americans are ten times more likely to be killed by guns.
Abundantly clear statistics have no effect. In Massachusetts, which has some of America’s most restrictive firearms laws, three people per 100,000 are killed by guns annually, while in Alaska, which has some of the weakest, the rate is more than seven times as high. In Louisiana, another weak-law state, the rate is more than six times as high as in Massachusetts.
Congress not only ignores such data but has shielded manufacturers and dealers from any liability for firearms deaths, and has prevented the Centers for Disease Control from doing any studies of gun violence. The top ten recipients of direct or indirect NRA campaign funds in the US Senate had received more than $42 million from the organization over the past thirty years.
The right to bear arms cannot supersede everyone else’s right to domestic tranquility, general welfare, and the blessings of liberty.
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Not only all of this, but our very longevity (esp. that of our precious kids) DEPENDS upon our elections. If we can take the time to read Diane’s blog every day, we MUST take the time to investigate campaign contributions to elected officials, & work with gun control groups to ensure that these legislators are NEVER RE-ELECTED. Also, the same for candidates. It is easy to Google campaign contribution sites (in IL, you can find contributions on Illinois Sunshine, or the IL Campaign for Political Reform). Also, find out who among your legislators are members of ALEC, who are surely involved. Then, it is an URGENT calling for you to be involved in groups that investigate ELECTION FRAUD, & I’m not talking about Russia; I’m taking about too many examples (New York, 2016 Dem Primaries, where voters were kept off the rolls; Ohio, 2016, where security devices on voting machines had been shut off; in Florida, where, when losing candidate Tim Canova tried to produce ballots in his losing race w/Debbie Wasserman Schultz, these ballots had been illegal DESTROYED {a ruling was recently made against the local election authority}; in ILL-Annoy–all over the place, but a specific lawsuit was filed by an election fraud watchdog group RE: the 2016 Dem Primary in Cook County {recently lost, but we’ll keep fighting!}). And these are just a FEW examples.
We MUST MAKE SURE that we keep our elections honest, &, again, that people who continue w/the “People kill people, guns don’t kill people” are voted OUT.
Elections–local, state & federal–are our first line of defense. Register to vote if not already registered. Volunteer to be a registrar. Join the League of Women Voters.
Join anti-gun groups. Join area election protection/watchdog groups. Do your homework (& we’re a group that knows the value of homework!) by researching your legislators & legislative candidates: information is easy to find (that’s why the powers that be don’t want net neutrality & there are companies like Cambridge Analytica {&, whoops, Mark Zuckerberg made a big mistake!}).
Guns DO kill many more people than other weapons, “ignorance of the law is no excuse”
and ignorance is NOT bliss: knowledge is the difference between life & death.
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Folks might be interested in this podcast about how we interpret the second amendment: https://www.wnycstudios.org/story/radiolab-presents-more-perfect-gun-show/
The group that got the ball rolling was the Black Panthers in Oakland, California. They felt they needed to defend themselves against the police.
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The Futility of Trying to Prevent More School Shootings in America
As long as there is easy access to guns, there’s no way parents, teachers, and other specialists can thwart every violent teenager.
The 17-year-old who killed 10 people at Santa Fe High School, in Texas, allegedly used his father’s shotgun and .38 revolver. After a firefightwith police, he surrendered, saying he did not have the courage to kill himself, as he had planned, Governor Greg Abbott told reporters.
In the hours after the May 18 attack, some students were shocked that Dimitrios Pagourtzis felled his classmates and two substitute teachers with buckshot. Heplayed defensive tackle on the football team. He made honor roll. He is not known to have a criminal record, according to Abbott. Just the day before, he had been joking around with friends on a field trip to a waterpark. Others found him disturbing, often wearing a trench coat, said his classmates, and, on that day, a black T-shirt with the haunting message born to kill….
Faced with a dangerous child, families, schools, and police can do their utmost, and their utmost frequently staves off tragedy. But events like this point to a discomforting reality: Even though many potentially violent children can be treated and do get better, it’s impossible to ensure that every dangerous child will be reached. And, in the end, there’s not much that anyone can do to stop a determined shooter, aside from preventing him from getting a gun in the first place…
Here is the first hole in the first line of defense: Denial. Parents are often confused and overwhelmed by their child’s behavior, but they grow used to it, tolerate it, adjust their lives around it, and attempt to cope with it alone…
But even parents willing to hospitalize their mentally ill child may run into problems. They have surprisingly few options when faced with a dangerous son or daughter. …Even the most severe behavioral cases—children exhibiting psychopathic tendencies—usually grow out of their scary behavior as they pass through adolescence. This is one of the greatest dilemmas of psychologists and parents: How can they possibly tell in advance who is a real threat and who isn’t?…
But hardware upgrades won’t stop a committed shooter, says Ronald Stevens, the executive director of the National School Safety Center, an advocacy group. Consider Adam Lanza, who killed 26 people at Sandy Hook Elementary School. “They had metal scanners, camera surveillance, perimeter controlled, visitor screening, fencing—you name it,” Stevens says. “The guy still came in, and he managed to overpower those at the entrance and then get on to campus.”…
The researchers compiled a list of characteristics and behaviors that many of the shooters shared, and concluded, “there was no single profile of these kids that would be scientifically reliable,” says Dewey Cornell, a psychologist at the University of Virginia who worked closely with the Secret Service and the FBI. “People say, ‘Well, these kids are victims of bullying, these kids are paranoid, these kids play violent video games, these kids are narcissistic.’ And many of the kids who have committed school shootings have those traits. But so do a million other kids. And this is a problem of specificity—that is, you find characteristics, but they’re not specific enough to be useful.”…
Virtually everyone I spoke with, from the FBI to academic researchers, told me it’s nearly impossible to stop a determined shooter; they’re always one creative step ahead. …
Children outside the U.S. “don’t have access to AR-15s or Glocks or other weapons that our kids have access to,” says Dewey Cornell. “That’s a huge glaring obvious problem. It’s obvious to scholars in the field. It’s obvious to folks in other countries. For some reason it’s not obvious to our politicians.”
Read More:
http://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2018/05/school-shootings-prevention/560753/?utm_source=eb
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