Mother Jones magazine posted the CIA-NSA report on Russian efforts to help Donald Trump win the presidency. As noted in the report, it does not contain the actual sources of the conclusions so as not to compromise them.
Sources whom I trust tell me that there are recordings of Russian leaders celebrating Trump’s victory and praising themselves for their success.
Folks, we have an illegitimate president who has promised to wreck our federal agencies, eliminate Obamacare without a replacement for 20 million people, wreck public education, purge the EPA and NASA of climate change researchers and funding.
#Putinspuppet
#notmypresident
Diane Ravitch's blog 
in an interview on NPR this morning, Senator Kaine (The same one that ran for Vice President) made the statement that, according to the Intelligence report, the voting systems of (a lot of States” were compromised.
That is FALSE NEWS. It is an INCORRECT statement. According to the public version, “ From August to November 2012, RT ran numerous reports on alleged US election
fraud and voting machine vulnerabilities, contending that US election results cannot
be trusted and do not reflect the popular will. ”
That is the ONLY statement, and all this tells us is that reports were circulated about the vulnerability of the voting machines. And that statement is proven to be incorrect after the recent election. States checked their equipment, and no hacks were to be found.
“. . . the voting systems of (a lot of States” were compromised.”
Tell that to former high level Republican (notice I didn’t say rethuglican) consultant/operator Michael Connell, eh!
Been going on for a long time.
Look at the documentary on Youtube ” The New Math of American Elections”
Its true, electronic voting machines have been compromised in the past. Voters continue to be surpressed, and the Electoral Vote is obsolete.
I read the public report from the Intelligence units and their conclusions. Kaine quoted the report as the basis for his statement re. election systems.
That there MAY have been tampering with SOME equipment is not the debate. But where issues have existed, the majority ended up being plain human error, rather than an organized attempt to alter votes.
Unleashing the Trump-loving Kraken comments in 5, 4, 3, 2…
I do hope you understand that questioning our intelligence services does not make someone a “Trump-loving Kraken”. In fact, questioning intelligence services used to be pretty standard among liberals and other left-leaners, at least when said services were, for instance, trying to lead us into war with Iraq and promising that they weren’t spying on our email.
Dienne,
The people who run the intelligence agencies have put their jobs on the line by telling Trump that his election was tainted. He will fire them. He will replace them with stooges.
Which side are you on? Looks like Trump.
Diane, we’ve been over and over this “sides” thing. The fact that you keep insisting I’m on Trump’s “side” (when you really do know better) really speaks poorly of you, which is very disappointing considering how much I admire you.
I hope that a time will come when people will wake up and realize what’s happening here and have the decency to be embarrassed about things they said and did. The people in the 50s who questioned whether everyone who dissented was a Commie/Russian sympathizer ended up being right. Most people accused of being Communists/Russian sympathizers were neither. People who made those accusations now look rather bad in the light of history. The same just might be true here. Before you go slinging accusations, you might want to think about how posterity is going to judge you.
Dienne,
I am very conscious of how history will judge my actions. I hope to be remembered fighting the rise of Trumpism with every fiber of my being. I will not seek for reasons why his “win” was legitimate. I believe from what I know that he won by lies, false promises, clever branding of his challengers in both parties, fake news, and propaganda. I lived through the McCarthy era. I knew it first-hand.
You choose never to believe the CIA or the NSA. Why believe any federal government agency? Why save your scorn for intelligence professionals? Maybe the EPA and NASA lies about climate change? Maybe the Surgeon General lies about the dangers of tobacco? Was 9/11 perpetrated by the CIA as a ruse to go to war? Was the Sandy Hook massacre a hoax? Why believe anything? You are into “The Truman Show.”
I believe Putin is a clever, evil man. He is much smarter than Trump or any of his circle. I do know people familiar with Putin’s inner circle who said he was delighted with Trump’s victory.
I don’t know what you believe, Dienne. I give up.
Putin is funding ultra-right parties across Europe. Not left: ultra-right and nationalist.
Dienne, you are correct, I should have written,”Trump-justifying and/or Hillary-hating Kraken.”
Healthy skepticism when questioning intelligence services is one thing. Questioning or accepting their conclusions because one has a pre-determined, unchanging (or even an instantly malleable) opinion is quite another. As is being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian.
For example, we often read the justification of why we should question today’s intelligence is because of “how the CIA got it wrong on Iraq.” The verifiable truth is that Cheney and his apparatchiks were the ones who politicized and quashed the information that the intelligence services had gathered that went against their political agenda. As Oprah might say, here’s a red herring for you and you and you.
GregB
In total agreement as per Seymour Hirsch in 2003.
Now before Dienne questions my credentials as a certified lefty . Yes Dienne American intelligence services have been responsible for dozens of coups and mysterious plane crashes dating back to Mosaddegh and as recently as Argentina,Brazil and unrest in Venezuela. . Notice how Obama quickly hopped on a plane to congratulate the new right wing Argentine government , when Kirchner was removed in a soft coup . Very similar to the soft coup engineered by Putin against Clinton/Obama.
So again Dienne there is no question that the Russians tossed this election very effectively to Trump with a narrative not necessarily false about Clinton. A constant drip of negative news. But there is absolutely no equivalence between Trump and Clinton.
The problem is that they have delivered the Nation to a group of fascists.; What do you propose to do about that.
Yes: Dmitri, my Russian control agent, has instructed me to say that this report is filled with suppositions and assumptions from agencies with long records of lying to the American public and, at least in the case of the FBI, interfering with domestic US politics, rather than proven facts.
Dmitri also wants me me to say that the report makes no real distinction between more traditional forms of “open” propaganda such as RT – half the report deals with RT – and “black” propaganda such as hacking and publicizing private emails, which in fact are quite different. Oh, he also wants me to say that the US has its own propaganda outlets and propaganda black ops in many other countries, so “potski, meet kettle-ski.”
Dmitri has convinced me that these efforts are folly, which aids and abets attacks on independent journalism, and is indicative of the intense denial that exists regarding the decades-long failures of the Democratic Party, demonstrated by its collapse at all levels of government.
Ha ha ha ha ha, the Ruskies assigned Dmitri to you. My contact is Natasha!
I recently discovered that I overlooked Boris and Natasha from my children’s education. I’ve apologized and I’m tardily trying to bring them up to speed.
Christine, I learned all about Cold War politics from watching Rocky and Bullwinkle when I was a kid. I started indoctrinating my kids with the dvds when the youngest was 6. Don’t deprive your children!
Major oversight! Must be because the fall of the Soviet Union came about just days after the younger two were born.
Voice of America
Abigail: Yes, Voice of America, the USIA (United States Information Agency) and, for covert propaganda ops, the CIA.
Dmitri (he’s my control agent only because Putin sent Boris and Natasha – whom I preferred – to Siberia) also wants me to direct readers to the July, 15, 1996 cover of Time Magazine (“Yanks To The Rescue!”) and its corresponding article, for a triumphalist view of US involvement in Russian elections, before Putin was leader.
Dmitri also says, “Don’t get me started on the National Endowment for Democracy!”
According to the pro-Putin Hillary haters, the United States put out FALSE information with all sorts of lies to sway Russian elections in the past.
According to the pro-Putin Hillary haters, it’s amusing that we have a President who those same Russian intelligence agencies most likely have all sorts of nasty stuff on. We have a President who is very likely in financial debt to Russians and has been bailed out in the past by Russians with ties to questionable (illegal) activities.
Not to mention that anyone who questions Putin in Russia ends up dead or in jail.
I can only imagine the glee and joy if Bernie and his wife’s private e-mails about all their dealings with getting a huge loan guarantee for the college that she ran were selectively made public so that it looked like Bernie was a crook. Plus a thousand fake news stories that repeated the “proof” that Bernie had done everything from run a child prostitution ring to meet with muslim terrorists. I’m sure Michael and Dienne could not stop laughing about how funny it was that half of America knew Bernie was a child molester.
Their hatred of Hillary runs so deep that they cannot even see the danger of what is going on. Derangement syndrome is all I can think of. Who do these “educators” who find so much glee think all the Russian trolls posting here are? You believe those are real people posting some of the most outrageous things that all repeat the same talking points? You think “both sides do it” so isn’t it funny?
I wonder if they will all be laughing when Trump takes over and continues this takeover of democracy. No doubt there were similar enablers in Nazi Germany who thought people’s fear of Hitler was just so amusing. After all, anything nasty Hitler said could easily be laughed away as being just like those nasty politicians in the past. No biggie.
“According to the pro-Putin Hillary haters, the United States put out FALSE information with all sorts of lies to sway Russian elections in the past.”
There is absolutely no doubt that the US has conducted propaganda in foreign countries. This is not a false equivalence between the two powers.
It’s another matter that, imo, to judge what the Russians did during these elections, it’s not relevant what the US does in Russia and elsewhere.
Looking at the CIA report, I have the impression that most of what the Russians did was propaganda. It doesn’t seem clear what the actual hacking of computers accomplished besides propaganda, and the report clearly states that there was no actual hacking that would influence actual voting machines and hence vote counts.
DHS assesses that the types of systems we
observed Russian actors targeting or
compromising are not involved in vote tallying.
Thank you for FACTS!!!
The report didn’t say there was no hacking.
They never went to much trouble to make sure there was no hacking nor have they really investigated it. But let’s say there was no hacking so the Hillary-haters feel good. So what?
Richard Nixon didn’t stuff ballot boxes either. His men didn’t stuff ballot boxes. By the logic of the Hillary-haters/Putin defenders, that means that the Watergate investigation was wrong.
How dare the Senate spend any time investigating Richard Nixon’s crimes when they should have been conducting post mortem on how awful George McGovern was so that no candidate with any of his policies should ever again get close to being a Presidential candidate.
What’s a Kraken? A cracker?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kraken_in_popular_culture
plus a very funny commercial:
Thanks! Who says an old dog can’t learn something new?
This is the same thing that you posted Friday. It says nothing new. It’s just the written form of “trust us”.
The real question is where was the Republican Party’s vetting of their own nominee? They willfully closed their eyes by putting up a candidate who is unquestionably compromised in their eagerness to knock off Hillary.
See attached artcile http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/1/9/1618540/-Was-Donald-Trump-bailed-out-of-bankruptcy-by-Russia-crime-bosses
I wondered the same thing! Of course they knew what he was all about.
I’m just raising some questions, not making any judgments one way or the other about the Russians and their hacking. Who helped Trump defeat all those GOP gargoyles? Trump said outrageous and disgusting things before and during the GOP primaries and yet he defeated established GOPers like Bush and Kasich. Did the Russians help him defeat Jeb Bush or Ted Cruz? I’ve never heard anyone make the accusation that the Russians hacked or influenced the GOP primaries or did I miss it?
Joe, I see where you’re coming from, but the Republican primary voting crowd is an entity that doesn’t need contemporary hacking to change minds. Those minds just try to out nut job each other. The Russians targeted low information voters, not no information voters.
Or……….maybe……..the Russians didn’t expect Trump to win the primaries (like everyone else)……….but when he did win the primaries, the Russians decided to back Trump against Hillary? Just my wild speculations.
Joe, you’ll have not argument from me. Not wild at all.
Joe, I think you might have an interesting idea… The Russians didn’t have to hack anything to “help” Trump win the primary. Whose to say that his campaign strategy was untainted by Russian interference outside the cyber field? Should we assume that false stories or just slanted stories weren’t fed to the press in other ways? At that point, I was totally focused on the Republican candidates’ education agendas and even the more moderate candidates, if that term can be applied, were opposed to public schools. I am not a good person to judge the possibility of shenanigans in the Republican sphere. If I were them, though, I think I would be examining the record very carefully.
Whether or not one accepts this report as fact, the FACT is that great numbers of people were disenfranchised, enough to have turned the election. It is being deliberately used to nullify people who may not vote the way some wish.
Greg Palast reported that thousands of votes in Detroit were never counted. To my knowledge Palast is a legitimate non partisan reporter of integrity.
It us unnecessary to infiltrate the voting machines. Several devices are used to keep “illegitimate” voters from voting.
Too: there is PLENTY of false news out there spread not just by the Russians. Post-truth is running rampant and too many people just do not care – AS YET.
Several people have stated that the Trump administration will be the most corrupt in American history. Look only at who Trump is naming to cabinet positions.
I personally am DEVASTATED by t he thoughts of a Trump presidency.
This country will NEVER be the same after the George W presidency. Trump will, I greatly fear destroy what may have been left.
Someone rightly said that the only thing we have to hope for now is our Constitution.
Let us make sure that it is utilized to the fullest extent..
Yes, and isn’t the obsession with what Russia did or didn’t do a wasteful, even dangerous, distraction from that?
The whole point of what I (and Dienne, I think) are saying is that focusing on Putin and Russian hackers is a distraction from what Americans are doing in (and to) America.
Michael,
I don’t agree. If Russian hacking made Trump president, then the public should know. That is way more important than endless handwringing about Hillary.
“If Russian hacking made Trump President…”
But it didn’t, Diane. Saying so is a misguided DNC talking point, which does nothing to stop Trump. In fact, it pushes his voters closer to him, rather than prying them apart, as we should be trying to think of ways to do.
I would say it’s more accurate to say that we don’t know, and will never know, whether Russian hacking, or any other single event or combination of events, made Trump President.
If I believed that (a) there was no “hacking,” and/or (b) there is no reason to think that Russia was behind the hacks, then I probably would agree that “the obsession with what Russia did or didn’t do” is a waste of time and a distraction.
But if I think as I do) that there is even a reasonable basis to believe that Russia (or frankly any other country) may have hacked and leaked DNC email with the intention of affecting the course of a presidential election — regardless of whether the outcome of the election was in fact altered — I can’t begin to understand the idea that it’s not worth discussing that possibility at length. The idea that everybody should just shut up about something that important just because it might “push [Trump’s] voters closer to him” just seems crazy to me.
In any event, obsessing about what Russia did or didn’t do is much, much less of a waste of time than obsessing about whether people should be discussing what Russia did or didn’t do. You’re not going to convince anyone who thinks it’s an important topic otherwise. In fact, it trying to convince them to stop discussing it may actually “push [them] closer to [that discussion], rather than prying them apart” from it.
Ditto.
Michael that’s exactly what Richard Nixon said! I won and nothing that happened would have changed the results of the election. Let’s shut down this Watergate investigation right away because I won! Why are you focusing on whether something happened that we can never prove without investigating it, so let’s not investigate!
Yes! Says the left wing democrats! Let’s focus on what a nasty candidate George McGovern was and everything he did wrong. We don’t need to know anything about what Nixon’s men did because after all — he won! And McGovern ran such a bad campaign and that’s much more important to focus on how bad it was. Illegal activity is worthless to look closely out. It should be kept hidden so we can focus on how bad McGovern was as a candidate.
Can you imagine if Michael and Dienne and other posters here telling us to move on were shutting down the Watergate investigation?
Just think how we’d all be better off. It’s important – they would say – not to investigate any illegal activity unless it is Hillary Clinton in which case there should be dozen of investigations until something sticks.
What did Donald Trump’s men know and when did they know it? If THAT is not worthy of an investigation, then why didn’t we give Nixon a pass? No doubt we would have if certain posters on here hated McGovern as much as they hate Hillary.
NYCpsp,
Your analogy is false, since in 1972 Republican operatives were caught red-handed during a burglary, whereas we still have not been provided any verification whatsoever of what Russia/Putin/Stalin’s Ghost did or didn’t do.
Now, I’d like suggest an analogy of my own, based on the assumption that Russia did hack the DNC emails (but ignoring the ridiculous assertion that RT propaganda broadcasts constitute “interference” with the election):
All states spy, on their enemies, allies – recall, please, verified news reports of the NSA hacking the personal cell phones of Angela Merkel and Dilma Rouseff, as well as proven episodes of Israeli spying on the US – and citizens.
Let’s refer to this constant intelligence gathering as a form of background radiation, always present, but with varying levels of intensity (the US having unarguably been very aggressive over many decades in this regard).
My point is that US democracy is suffering from a Stage IV malignancy, yet too many people are intent are arguing over the levels of background radiation in the atmosphere. If that is the situation, then where should attention and care be focused?
So what that Republican operatives were caught red-handed. We didn’t KNOW they were operatives nor how high their communications with CREEP went. By your standards, it was no big deal — they would get a few months jail for trespassing and you would be demanding that the investigation stop. To focus on what a nasty, nasty candidate that McGovern was and how it was all his fault he lost because he was so nasty and awful — as YOU would claim since of course that’s why he lost by so much.
You hate Hillary so much you don’t want to know any evil. Stop the investigation NOW! says Michael. Michael already knows everything he needs to know and it’s that McGovern was a loser and Hillary was a crook. Everything else about the election needs to be left uninvestigated because it takes away your ability to hate Hillary and blame everything on her. Because some of your racist white working class friends decided to ignore Trump’s racism and xenophobia because hey, he seemed so much better than evil Hillary and you, of course, couldn’t bring yourself to defend her.
By the way I am from that industrial midwest, too, and the only people I knew that voted for Trump also posted vile racist things. Maybe they weren’t racists, but they sure aren’t bothered one bit by racism.
It IS a distraction. I am glad that a few Democrats are willing to take an honest look at what really happened.
And something tells me that whatever the Russians did or tried to do made no difference in the outcome.
Some democrats are honest enough to say, “WE screwed up. WE missed cues.”
Some democrats have learned lessons and started to work on changes.
“Some democrats are honest enough to say, “WE screwed up. WE missed cues.”
Some democrats have learned lessons and started to work on changes.”
Yup: we didn’t try to change the Electoral College system with full force.
NYCpsp,
Your false reasoning and insistence on misrepresenting what I write discredits you, not me.
Maybe Trump has had a greater effect on you than you’re willing to admit.
This election is not an indictment on Russian interference. It is an indictment on the large segment of the American populace who knowingly voted an unbalanced, ignorant, unqualified, bigoted, crude, lewd, crass, misogynistic, liar into the most powerful office
on the planet. Time to sleep in the bed we’ve made.
Yeah, there really are a lot of morally repellent Americans out there. Yesterday at my gym I overheard two Trump voters discussing their generous pensions from a local chemical plant (probably the result of union effort and Democrats’ making America safe for unions) and then shifting to a celebration of Obamacare’s demise. “Who pays for those subsidies? OUR taxes!”, one said. Well, no, it’s the taxes of rich people, but even if it were your taxes, you’d rather the poor be bereft of insurance than for your comfortable standard of living to be diminished a bit. How do we make Americans more morally beautiful? These folks are hideous. Would they be more moral if they were less ignorant?
YEP!
And yet, we kill 900000 unborn children a year, and that is mortally acceptable???
What a strange country
A lot of those “people” are scarcely more than masses of tissue. Jesus never spoke about treating fetuses well: he spoke about treating out-of-the-womb humans compassionately and how God hates the haughty and heartless. Like Jesus, I’m more concerned with fully-existing humans than potential humans. Trump is the antithesis of a true Christian, as are many of his supporters. If they call themselves Christians, they are deluded by the charlatan, pandering ministers who are legion in this country.
Unfortunately, that means you don’t care about people with Alzheimer’s, ALS, dementia and all other people who are as helpless as an unborn child.
Not to surpring. If the beginning is not cared for, the end will fare the same.
And I’m called heartless…
I know you feel that on occasion people put words in your mouth. I would think that you be extra careful not to do the same.
I don’t Feel that, I Know that happens…
My conclusion is based on the statement that a “fetus” is worthless, has no value and should not be cared about.
I thought “statement” implied someone had said it. I can’t find anywhere where someone referred to fetuses as worthless in which case your response is your interpretation of what someone meant or, in other words, put words in their mouth. Since you KNOW that other people put words in your mouth, I would think you would be extra careful not to do the same to someone else.
Rudy, I’m glad you care about the disabled; I do too. Do you think Trump’s policies are likely to help these people? If so, how?
Whatever trump does is his problem. Not mine. Whether or not he does anything does not change my responsibilities.
ponderosa
Your gym mates are on welfare, both the employer and the employees get a tax break for their health insurance coverage. Another words they are receiving a federal subsidy to help pay for their healthcare. Costing 250 billion a year to the Federal government.
I have no problem with those whose economic interest might be served by Republicans ie large or small business owners voting for Trump. When I see ignorant union members voting against the interests of the institutions that gave them a decent standard of living it makes my blood boil .
YEP!
Just like the Nixon-McGovern election was an indictment of a MUCH LARGER segment of the American populace who despised the progressive Democrat so much he only won one state. One.
Shame on the Democrats and ethical Republicans for not insisting that America should “sleep in the bed we’ve made” and investigate Watergate. Just like RageAgainstTheTetsocracy says. Nixon would be the best loved President ever if only we all agreed that investigating any wrongdoing is not allowed because it is far more important to bash the losing candidate and note how terrible McGovern was so no one ever like McGovern ever runs again.
Did I get that right, RageAgainstTheTetsocracy? You think our country made a grave error by wasting time investigating Watergate when we should have been spending more time attacking McGovern and whatever corrupt DNC allowed that loser to win the primary?
You are completely misreading my comment. No you did not get me right. The popularity of Trump is a symptom of a cultural/social disease. Never “insisted” that we sleep in the bed “we” made. Just noting that is what is happening. I pray for the day Trump is indicted and/or impeached – I just don’t think that Repubs will let that happen. Hopefully I will be wrong.
“You are completely misreading my comment. ”
Indeed. Let’s not start politicizing by quickly labeling dissenters after casual reading of their posts. Let’s not forget, public education is attacked via unfair, generic labeling. If we don’t understand something in a post, ask a question instead of jumping to convenient, knee-jerk conclusions.
Republicans cannot fail to recognize Trump’s insanity. I understand that they supported him to win control of the federal government. I cannot understand their recklessly endangering the country. Republican senators have the power to make sure Trump gets cabinet members who could protect us from his insanity but they are letting him fill it with people who are defined by their intentions to destroy the very departments they are assigned to manage. I only hope that they pay in 2018 and that we don’t all pay a catastrophic price before then.
Rank dismissal of the results, which Trump and others are willing to do, requires a kind of pretending that, for whatever reason, disregards the legitimacy of three independent intelligence agencies, the skills acquired and honed over decades, as well as the implications of the consensus formed- which is consistent with intelligence from England and other countries.
Likely all the people who worked to put the report together, did their ernest best to get it right. This is why the results are not presented as absolutes, but on a continuum that acknowledges a margin of error.
The integrity of our democracy (and millions of peoples votes) has been seriously undermined to serve the agenda of Putin.
http://www.counterpunch.org/2017/01/09/allegations-against-russia-less-credible-every-day/
Whoops, Duane: you just outed yourself as a Trump/Putin proxy, by referring to a site that Jeff Bezos doesn’t want us to read.
Look on the bright side, however: Dmitri, Boris, Natasha and Pooty-Poo will give you a medal.
Michael,
Please contact me at dswacker@centurytel.net as I think that you might be interested in and could be valuable member of a group of us interested “educational justice”.
Look forward to hearing from you.
Duane
Duane,
I was unable to do so without the message being unencrypted. Feel free to contact me at ginseng4@earthlink.net.
Michael Fiorillo
This is the document that is all over the Internet.
I am not posting it because I can’t verify its authenticity.
But since Linda Giffin referred to the “golden showers,” it means she has read it.
You should not be in the dark.
https://www.google.com/url?hl=en&q=https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3259984-Trump-Intelligence-Allegations.html&source=gmail&ust=1484234498758000&usg=AFQjCNE2YrulUMZVgRNaQdoK6RpBdIMGyg
Donald Trump, Russian hookers and golden showers: I’ve long known that power, politics and money is a profane, fallen world, but eeeww…
You don’t have to maintain an 8th grade Civics class view of politics to think that, true or not, this is all very yucky…
Just a bit of preemptive info against fake news about President Obama supposedly giving Iran tons of uranium. First, the natural uranium is coming from Russia, not the U.S., as a part of the MULTILATERAL (which includes the U.S., Russia, Germany, France, the U.K.) agreement with Iran in exchange for enriched uranium that Iran has shipped out. This is NOT “Obama giving Iran uranium.” Natural uranium can be used for energy producing and medical research applications. I’m sure we’ll be seeing this twisted into all sorts of misinformation, not that any nuts out there who believe that our president is not American can be convinced. But those of us in the fact-based world should know. Since their dear leader is trying to cozy up to Russia, they’ll obscure the fact that this natural uranium is coming from Russia. This is another reason why we need educators now more than ever.
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/diplomats-world-powers-natural-uranium-shipment-iran-44649533
The other side of the Obama story. No one person is more responsible for Trumpism than Obama . Right up to the very end.
You do not fight a right wing agenda by being a little less extreme. You fight it with a progressive agenda . There was none.
Once again, you’ll have no argument from me. As I wrote earlier, the one thing I’ll really miss is his sense of decency. In another sense, I’ll be glad to see his sense of decency go. It would have been nice for him to stand up and show some aggressiveness. Standing up to Bush tax cuts, for single payer health, to close Guantanamo, and so on. If we lived under a parliamentary system, he and his family had all the qualities to have been an exceptional president, but he doesn’t have what it would have taken to be an effective prime minister. I think that’s what we Sanders supporters see in him.
And it’s a shame that the woman who DID have the qualities to make an effective prime minister was bashed to pieces.
I can only imagine the left getting their hands on LBJ (well, I guess they eventually did). But if only he would have been destroyed much earlier we wouldn’t even have to have this debate because there’d be no safety net, no real social security or medicare. They’d all be trashed long ago. But Americans could feel really good about making sure that corrupt LBJ never got to do a thing. After all, what’s caring about the poor when you made a mistake in foreign policy? It would have been ‘better’ for Goldwater to win! Imagine that America wasn’t quite as blinded by pro-goldwater propaganda painting LBJ as the criminal the left knew he was as we saw in this election. But then, the left didn’t really bash LBJ nearly as much as they trashed Hillary.
Joel, you’re risking accusations of being a Trump/Putin flunky by raising such heresies.
Interesting read on the influence of RT on US elections…
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/01/12/if-russia-today-is-moscows-propaganda-arm-its-not-very-good-at-its-job/?utm_term=.ebbf20b8b5d0&wpisrc=nl_wv-draw6&wpmm=1
Tillerson is not a billionaire. How did they sneak him in?
That is interesting .
CEO’s are salaried employees yielding the most influence on the corporatocracy. But they are not technically the owners . Yes not a billionaire until he starts investing his 500 million in options and becomes an owner rather than a manager.
Exxon’s coming deal with Russia should cement his first billion.
Thanks Joel for relieving my anxiety!
There will be some more billionaires in the world thanks to the Trump gravy train for which an exclusive few will have tickets. For the rest of us it will be a Hieronymus Bosch painting come to life.
Have you guys read the report?
The assessment is clear and it is
We assess Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered an influence campaign in 2016 aimed at the US
presidential election. Russia’s goals were to undermine public faith in the US democratic process,
denigrate Secretary Clinton, and harm her electability and potential presidency. We further assess
Putin and the Russian Government developed a clear preference for President-elect Trump. We
have high confidence in these judgments.
Further, there are some details given. Some are not very strong, like the unified (Russian) nationwide press opinion, but there are some pointers about email hacking activities.
The reference to the Kremlin financed, US based “RT America” at the end is worth reading. Sounds very similar in function to what Voice of America used to be.
https://www.rt.com/usa/
A point and a question:
whatever level of confidence the intelligence agencies (who, with an extensive history of lying to the American public, should have everything they say transact at a high discount, as should be the case with any spy agency) have about their “assessment” of Russian behavior, it remains just that, an assessment that provided no facts or verification.
“… what Voice of America (and by implication USIA) used to be?” Really? .
Michael,
Remain skeptical. But don’t say they are all liars. Why should they lie to the man who is about to become their boss? He will fire them all and staff the CIA and NSA with staff from Breitbart News and the Alt-right.
More will be revealed.
I choose to separate intelligence professionals, who mostly/often try their best to do their jobs honestly, from the institutions themselves, which do lie and/or delude themselves reliably, as recent and not-so-recent history shows.
The case of WMDs in Iraq is a case in point: while there were people of integrity in (or, more likely, previously in) the CIA who tried to provide the American public with their best efforts at unearthing the truth, the Agency itself, in the person of George “Slam Dunk” Tenet, lied. The results of those lies are still with us, in the form of ISIS and other scourges.
Intelligence agencies – Russian, US, Martian – lie, in service of political ends; it’s axiomatic, and it’s part of their craft.
CNN catches up with David Corn and Mother Jones: http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/10/politics/donald-trump-intelligence-report-russia/index.html
Greg,
I don’t know if we will ever learn what “compromising” stuff Russia has about Trump, but my guess is that it is videotape of what happened in his hotel room while he was in Russia. If you read David Korn, you know that a high profile figure like Trump is under constant surveillance. Fill in the blanks.
And we know that Trump has the self-control of a toddler. I can’t believe he is about to have his hands on the nuclear armaments.
“I can’t believe he is about to have his hands on the nuclear armaments.”
The more we find out about the presidential privileges, the uglier the picture gets. For example, I heard it this morning on NPR that the usual conflict of interest laws do not apply to the president. So, in particluar, he is not going to get into trouble for nominating family members, or having family members lead international businesses that could benefit from the president’s policies in foreign countries.
In that same interview, it was made clear that there is a “vast amount” of federal and constitutional law that trump cannot discard… So it is not a done deal – yet.
FYI, all comments insulting me are automatically deleted.