Chris Savage at Eclectablog says that we should ignore any politician who offers “thoughts and prayers” if they voted against reasonable restrictions on access to assault weapons. He includes a great tweet from a Michigan Congressman Jeremy Moss:
“I literally never want to hear again that LGBT people in the bathroom are a threat to public safety.”
Steven Singer knows who the real culprit is: the powerful lobby that wants everyone-including terrorists–to have guns.
Diane Ravitch's blog 
Couple universal healthcare with a ban on semi-automatic assault weapons, and the problem is greatly diminished. Pathetic on how neither the DEMS or GOP will bring up the real root to mass shootings: lack of universal healthcare
Keep in mind, as a nation we have been at war for many years now. By far the majority of deaths by firearm are suicides. 22 vets per day take their life, almost one every hour. All while we continue to shutter VA Hospitals. And the veterans facilities that are left, have closed the door for in-patient services, and turned into out-patient centers. Since Reagan, we have closed mental facilities and used incarceration for the mentally deranged. As the author and professor note, disenfranchisement of people is the leading cause why these things keep happening.
The Orlando shooter was said to be anti-gay on first reports. But, with more analysis, it has been noted that he was a regular visitor of the pulse night club for 3 years. It was also noted that he has a gay profile in social media. Finally, not only did he state his allegiance to ISIS in the 911 phone call, but he also talked about other groups who are in fact competing factions at war with ISIS. This perplexed the FBI. It should not have. This was obviously a conflicted and very mixed up mentally ill individual who was seeking attention. The signs were there amongst his co-workers. And the same is true with almost every other mass shooting that has taken place since Columbine. We severely lack mental health facilities. Why is that?
Give people universal healthcare, and they will have easy access to medical help, which more than often will stop a catastrophe from happening. As a nation we are long past due. It is no coincidence that in nations with universal healthcare, these incidences rarely ever happen. Where as in the USA, it has become common place. Repubs blame it on all the muslims. Dems blame it on all the guns. Neither one of them are actually getting to the root of the problem. We need universal healthcare coverage. This article explains very clearly why, and how it should be done: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/making-sense/face-mass-murders-case-universal-mental-health-insurance/
Responsible gun owners need to break from the grip of the NRA and realize not every reasonable gun restriction means the end of the Second Amendment. We’ve had teachers, students, professors, police officers, firefighters, on and on all gunned down by people who have better access to guns than mental health treatment and social services. We have more guns now than people in the U.S. but the violence continues at far too high a daily occurrence. The most disturbing aspect is we are no longer surprised and there is now a routine response to every mass shooting.
Thank you for making us aware of Michigan state rep. Jeremy Moss’s tweet. He found a way to say what I’ve been struggling to articulate. Retweeted on my rarely used account.
Watching MSNBC Rachel Maddow show this evening…
Rachel points out that ISIS manages to take ‘credit’ for felonies committed on American soil– e.g., San Bernardino & Orlando– simply by virtue of those felons– having had no previous contact w/ISIS– simply ‘crediting’ their action to ISIS just prior to a mass-shooting/ suicide action. I say, these folks are simply nut-jobs no different from Jared Laughner or Dylan Roof. Why give credit to ISIS. Why even call these folks terrorists??
When it is domestic, it is a “mentally disturbed person” so that guns are not the issue. But when it is a real mentally disturbed person who latches on to delusional “ideologies” that person is a “terrorist.” That way gun nuts win in either case.
Let’s get back to the basic in humanity and tolerance. People, who are narrow minded, cause chaos in community and society due to their own intolerance for others’ differences in emotional needs.
We will go nowhere if we do not have a mutual-respect for humanity. Fascism, Communism and terrorism are the form of controlling the general public with stresses, shortage of foods, jobless and fear of death.
Hetero- or homo-sexuality is not the problem. The real culprit of problem is rooted from ignorance and gullibility in general public that is brain-washed by media (= owned and controlled by puppet master, and fueled by corporate writers’ shills). Life is in a circle for thousands of years. Back2basic
With 300 hundred million people here there will always be some who simply want to kill and will find a reason to do so. The real problem is the easy accessibilty of guns. That’s the bottom line. I’m tired of hearing about standing up to hate etc. It’s long passed due that our political leaders acknowledge that guns enable the warped to act out their horrific deeds!
“We know the FBI investigated him twice and found no reason to pursue the inquiry or to keep him on a terrorist watch list.
So this person looks as though he was unbalanced and extremely prejudiced individual who bought two semi-automatic weapons only last week and then committed a mass shooting against a group against which he was bigoted.
He may have invoked Daesh (ISIS, ISIL) as he began his mayhem, but there is no reason at the moment to think that he was involved with them in any practical way.
He was about to commit a mass murder that he must have known would likely end in his own death as well.
So it may be that he was searching for a way to make sense of his homicidal impulse, a way to give meaning to his senseless killing and senseless death.
So, a major, major hate crime for sure. But terrorism? What is the governmental policy he wanted changed?” :
http://www.juancole.com/2016/06/rightwing-homophobia-terrorism.html
His analysis may be even more on point as more is being revealed of the killers past.
But of course the right will do its best to portray this as terrorism a political act with an end goal . an external threat to America , ISIS will be happy to take credit. Although they would have preferred Disney for the optics.
Trump will bloviate about political correctness and resort to more demagoguery.
But there is one certainty , tens of thousands of Americans will head to the nearest gun store, buy more assault rifles and more ammunition. A week ,a month a year from now we will revisit this tragedy somewhere else in America .
We’ve always had guns. The boogie man gun of the moment, the AR-15 rifle, has been available for sale since the 1960s. It’s semi-automatic, meaning it fires one bullet per trigger pull. Anything more would be illegal. The Orlando shooter had to stop and reload after firing 15 bullets.
I’m going on a limb and I expect to be pilloried; when we have drills in my school, we huddle in a dark corner and….wait. I wonder, should we not be doing the opposite? To be blunt, we’ve become a very flabby and morally wobbly society. Perhaps us teachers should be trained to charge the shooter with the understanding that some sacrifice will happen in order to save many many more lives. I know, easier said than done.
(At the very least, all schools should have the security a basic county courthouse has; I still don’t know why this isn’t so, 15 years after 9/11 and 10 years since Beslan.)
Before you get too angry, look up the elderly Holocaust survivor Liviu Librescu and read about his actions during the Virginia Tech shootings. An old man, in a classroom filled with many younger and more capable young men, he saved countless numbers of his adult students.
And here’s an interesting tidbit from the wikipedia page on the bell tower University of Texas sniper (also from the 1960s):
” [Police Officer] Martinez later credited the numerous civilian shooters for saving ‘many lives’ by forcing Whitman [the shooter whose actions were driven by a brain tumor] to take cover, limiting his range of targets.”
Among those civilian shooters was a college professor who kept a rifle in his car trunk. Can you imagine such a thing today? In the Stalinist halls of academia, I can’t even admit I vote Republican…
I understand what you are saying, but there are serious aspects to arming teachers.
What if a teacher mistakes a drill or false alarm for a real active shooter and shoots a student?
What if the school gun safe is broken into by students? Will other students be hurt? Will the teacher be fired? What is the school liability?
Police officers receive hours of training including range time, situational drills, legal procedures, gun maintenance. Are teachers now going to be given ample time and resources to be trained to the same level?
Many of these mass shooters are suicidal and heavily armed. The teacher will have to “neutralize” the shooter. Will we match armament to level we often only see for SWAT – body armor, high powered weapons, multiple rounds?
When police enter in uniform as they are now trained to do, how will the police distinguish an active shooter from an armed teacher? Will we just accept the teacher is also shot by police as part of the new strategy?
Of course, we protect our legislative buildings extremely well, but those legislators refuse to protect schools and, as always, “blame the teacher”. If they were serious, our financially conservative lawmakers would provide resource officers, in uniform and properly trained along with more secure buildings.
“. . . I can’t even admit I vote Republican…”
Voting Rethuglican (or even Dimocrap) must be the result of the rum, or sodomy or the lash or some combination, eh!!
Wikipedia might be the reason that you are shunned in the “halls of academia” which have never been Stalinist not even close.
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/10/oregon-shooting-gun-laws-213222
And as far as your keyboard courage asking for kamikaze teachers, active shooter training says to first get out of the area and then fight with what ever you have if cornered. But it is worth noting that there was an armed student at Virginia Tech who, when interviewed, admitted he was armed but did what any sane person would do and ran like hell.
When we do lockdown drills, I’m always aware of where my 17 and a half inch Brown Bess bayonet is (I teach early American history),it wouldn’t be easy for someone coming through my door wanting to do harm.
He pledged his allegiance to ISIS. Please read Graeme Green’s article in the Atantic magazine “What ISIS really wants”, a religious group….
In a country that so glorifies violence, death and destruction on a daily basis (hey, aren’t those ‘flyovers’ by the military at a MLB, NFL game just peachy keen neeto??) why wouldn’t one expect these things to not happen. The US of A is the leading purveyor of death and destruction in the world–by far, no one else is close. Isn’t there an ancient saying:
“One reaps what one sews”
To repeat an earlier post:
It’s not the weapon that kills, it is the ideology of the person using it. Ask all the dead Iraqis and/or Afghanis killed by the ideology of American Exceptionalism since Georgie the Least’s god told him to invade those countries. No different than the SOB that committed the Orlando tragedy.
I still stand by that comment.
Honestly, the Afghan war was to eliminate the Taliban and not sure what other response to 9/11 was going to work at the time. The Iraq war was a mistake as Hussein was well controlled between the two parallels and had no WMDs.
I think we aren’t seeing American exceptionalism as there’s nothing wrong with believing in our country, how ever imperfect. We are seeing pure greed coupled with a party of chickenhawks. When Paul Ryan releases a policy suggesting we need to send more wives, husbands, sons, and daughters from our families into combat, while HE (Ryan) wants weekends off to spend time with HIS family, we see a hypocrite and fraud. When Donald Trump insults John McCain, a man I don’t often agree with but deeply respect, and Dodging Donald used his wealth to avoid the draft, then we see disgust and perversion.
I do understand the anger, but respectfully disagree with the equivalence.
The Taliban?
You mean Unca Ronnie’s “Freedom Fighters” whom this country encouraged and armed to the teeth??
What did the Taliban have to do with 9/11? Please explain because from what I know 19 of the supposed hijackers supposedly came from Saudi Arabia. I believe that one came from Afghanistan. Makes sense to bomb and invade Afghanistan (which the vast majority of Americans at the time had no clue as to that country’s location on this planet, but an ignorant population is easily manipulated) when a bit player (if even that) of 9/11 came from that country.
9/11 the biggest false flag operation the world has ever known.
This guy was not moved by Ideology ,he adopted a convenient one to justify his personal demons.. Which in the context of a national election against a demagogue is an important distinction to make.
http://www.juancole.com/2016/06/someone-salafi-jihadi.html
Guns don’t kill people . People with guns kill people . But to your greater point Nations with weapons kill people and the Union of Concerned Scientists has reset the clock forward.
The more that comes out about the shooter, the more what you say about a “convenient justification” appears to be correct!
“9/11 the biggest false flag operation the world has ever known.”
…Oh boy are you asinine.
Is your last sentence a question or a statement?
Certainly been called worse (and better) so don’t let my thoughts distract you.
See what over 2,000 architects and engineers, many of whom have been involved in buildings such as the three that were brought down on 9/11, have to say about the building “failure” events of that day using sound scientific, engineering and architectural knowledge and expertise:
http://www.ae911truth.org/gallery/evidence.html
Duane, say it ain’t so!
To what does the “it” refer, F L E R P !?
Duane:
9/11 denial = holocaust denial
Did you read any of the link?
Did you wake and bake today because your logic and sense of reality isn’t there today. I’ve never seen where anyone has “denied” that 9/11 occurred. I certainly have never denied that 9/11 didn’t occur nor have I ever denied that the Nazis slaughtered of millions of not only Jews but fellow Germans, Poles, Russians and many others.
RS&L, getting so defensive and resorting to the denial/conspiracy canard does nothing to discuss topics. I made a statement. You do not agree with it. I have linked what I consider very important information concerning my statement and that information is put forth by those who have studied the appropriate and applicable sciences-architecture and building engineering. To not at least read, and then reject if that be the case for you, is a piss poor attitude that shows lack of critical thinking skills.
Your implicit name calling is ludicrous and risible (and that’s being nice.)
“9/11 the biggest false flag operation the world has ever known.”
That’s a shame.
I wonder where Noel Wilson stands on 9/11 conspiracy theories.
Please explain what you mean by “that”. TIA, Duane
Wow, Tim, could you go any lower?
To bring in someone not even remotely related to the conversation as a blast at me? I would call it sophomoric but I think “middle school hormonal induced stupidity” would be a better description. Any other blog/forum and I wouldn’t hold back. Low, low, and low-Tim’s all time low comment.
Proud of yourself little big-boy?
I could go lower, Duane! I could say that 9/11 was a false flag operation, e.g.
I’m not sure why you find the Wilson reference so insulting. Surely he would be interested to know that the man who moved him from complete into relative obscurity subscribes to a totally refuted, completely debunked theory.
Well, Timmyboy, when you have the balls to use your given name I’ll respond further. Until then chplapnga and Foff!!!
Or should that be big little boy?
I’m trying to understand you. Afghanistan harbored the terrorists. Granted Saudi Arabia is a troublesome ally. And Frontline did a great analysis of the twin towers and there were sound structural reasons they failed. Plus the fact they were not designed for an entire jet liner to hit full of fuel. And I’m seriously wondering if you are not losing it as your posts are increasingly deteriorating from several months ago. If you need to, get some help and I mean that in a nice way. Teaching can be stressful.
Vale Math,
Thanks but no thanks for the suggestion (and I know you mean well). I’m retired now so not stressed by teaching as I was in the past. Because one sees the world with different eyes than the majority does not constitute “losing it” (except in authoritarian regimes). I’ve just decided that I’ll say it the way I perceive it (and those perceptions are based on a hell of a lot more reading and research than the vast majority of folks, and a vast arrary of life experiences that most have never contemplated doing-guaranteed) and quit being “nice”. I read the links here and many other places, have any number of books and articles being read at any given time. NO, tis not I who is “losing it”. I say what many think but are too afraid to voice their concerns.
I would not consider “Frontline” to be a credible source when it comes to understanding high rise building structural failure. I do consider thousands of engineers and architects who daily work with those structures to fully understand and explain the problems with the government’s explanation.
Have you even looked at what those engineers and architects have researched and written in the link I provided? If not, then you don’t even have the beginnings of understanding of these types of structures and how the three collapsed that day. Look at the evidence as it is laid out by those who work with such structures.
I have a very difficult time in folks not reading what is offered but criticizing it blindly. Do you realize that the government official report on 9/11 only details what happened up until the moment of collapse-nothing about the collapse itself? And that is where the scientists, engineers and architects at ae911truth continue the investigation.
What bothers me most are the blind attacks (not even considering opening and reading the link) on me by folks I generally consider to be usually open and intelligent. But you that do, feel free, I can take it. My thinking has always drawn criticism of being “way out there” even when I can show that it isn’t “way out there”. I’m not afraid to attack the status quo and “conventional wisdom” when it is absurd.
And let us also ignore and depose every politician who votes to defund the essential support role of our school guidance counselors. The public school system is where the FBI should have begun their information gathering, years ago.
HEADLINE
“Orlando shooter Omar Mateen ‘threatened to bring a gun and kill students at his elementary school’, former classmates reveal
Former classmate says Omar Mateen would often make threats to students.
Lesley Hall claims he threatened to bring a gun into Marisopa Elementary.
She says he then told children he would kill everyone when he was just 10.
Ms Hall also says Mateen would always bully others and spit at teachers.”
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3640621/Orlando-shooter-Omar-Mateen-threatened-bring-gun-kill-students-elementary-school-former-classmates-reveal.html#ixzz4BYZ7x6hF
Gun laws are local. Like public schools. The emotional impulse to federalize every solution, is the wrong impulse.
Lynn,
My impulse is to ban all assault weapons. If they are banned only by some localities and some states, they will be easily available. Why should any civilian–ANY CIVILIAN–own weapons of war?
Diane,
“Weapons of war” is a very large category. Please define.
Because as I see it, why should some people in the government, which is supposed to be of by and for the people, be the only ones who are allowed to possess and use “weapons of war”? That allows for tyranny to obtain. Why shouldn’t “civilians” be able to have those same weapons to protect themselves?
Oh, I know, the “government” can be trusted to do what is right, right?
Again “It’s not the weapon that kills, it is the ideology of the person using it.” And the American government is well known to not be afraid to use those “weapons of war” against not only “the other” but American citizens. See the Obomber’s ordering of the killing of an American citizen with no judicial oversight/mandate and then ordering the killing of that citizen’s son, again without any judicial proceedings whatsoever.
In a society that openly celebrates death and destruction as does modern American society, why wouldn’t one expect to see such violence erupt. In such a society violence IS the answer.
I believe since guns are sold across state lines, they become a federal issue as well as interpretation of the second amendment’s “well regulated militia” as applying to citizens owning guns. Correct me if I’m wrong, lawyers.
Thank God for the Constitution, which saves me from impulse. BTW, we know what a committed few can do with just a couple of box cutters.
Well, we now ban box cutters on planes. And if this shooter was armed with a box cutter, the outcome would have been much different.
When is enough enough? How many more mass shootings do we need before we do something substantive about the easy access to powerful guns and ammunition? Obviously nothing will ever be done with a GOP controlled congress and with a GOP in the White House.
To answer your questions:
Never, not in a society that is so permeated with the glorification of death and destruction that is America today.
No amount of “mass shootings” can overcome the above mentioned glorification of death and destruction in this country in which so many revel. (see the blatant displays of nationalism-no not patriotism-that happens everyday in this country from monster sized flags to military power displays at fairs, sporting events, on TV, etc. . . .)
What is sad is that these mass shootings now have an established response – first an interrupted news cast, then hours of coverage with sketchy information, pictures of the aftermath and stories of inside, a few later stories of heros, a backstory of the unstable shooter, a speech by president Obama, a counter speech by wild eyed pro gun maker Republicans saying any gun restriction eliminates the Second Amendment, more debate, and then nothing is done and we simply move on to other news until the next mass shooting.
Banning the sale and resale of all automatic and semi-automatic weapons is a no brainer.
At the very least, it will make it significantly more difficult for the “impulse killer” who does not already have access to these weapons.
Actual terrorists and others who are bound and determined will find a way no matter what (after all, there are already millions of these guns out there and a ban will not prevent black market sales — though it would make them more difficult )
Some will surely instead use a shotgun or single action hunting rifle or pistol to do their dirty deed, but that will not produce the kind of carnage that a military weapon is designed to produce.
Finally, for anyone who says that “we need an assault rifle in case the government ever takes over”, I’d point out that the government has orders of magnitude more firepower than any individual will ever possess and resisting with an assault rifle against a tank or grenade launcher is downright stupid — virtually assured to lead to the very worst outcome for any individual or group.
“Banning the sale and resale of all automatic and semi-automatic weapons is a no brainer.”
Not often we disagree SDP but your suggestion is a no brainer in that it does not make any sense IF you know anything at all about what the difference between automatic (which are banned) and semi-automatic which defines almost every gun made (except single shot muzzle loaders, shot-guns, etc. . . .)
Each of my hunting and sporting guns would be illegal under your scheme of banning.
Sorry, but to allow that to happen is to allow tyranny to obtain as those (the government/police/security forces) would be able to do whatever they deemed fit with impunity. And we have seen what happens when those in power are the only ones who can possess weapons-present day North Korea, Pol Pot, Mao’s China, Stalin’s pogroms, and many other historical examples should give one pause as to allowing only one “chosen” set of humans to be armed.
If citizens have to arm themselves (futilely I might add) against their own government, tyranny has already won.
Military weapons are already illegal. Every gun sold in this country is one bullet per trigger pull, whether a handgun or a rifle. It’s been the law of the land since 1934.
The shooting difference between a “hunting” rifle and the “military weapon” you describe is only aesthetic. One looks mean, the other doesn’t. Imagine a Honda engine in a Ferrari.
I actually do know what semi-automatic means, but I am no doubt ignorant of hunting.
Perhaps you can explain why people need a semi-automatic rifle for hunting (deer, for example)
One of my friends is a hunter and he actually hunts deer with a bow and arrow and ducks with a shotgun. Perhaps other hunters are just not as good at shooting as he is?
But a ban on ‘sale and resale’ (not a ban on ownership) would actually let you keep any guns you currently own, at any rate — so you can relax. 🙂
The argument about defending oneself from tyranny makes no sense given the firepower of our military and police. Some people have actually “tested” that theory with entirely predictable outcomes.
Hunters don’t use Bushmaster AR-15 assault weapons.
The military does.
Adam Lanza did. Omar Mateen did.
Are we crazy letting anyone buy military weaponry? Yes
Well, I just looked up semi-automatic rifle and i was wrong.
I thought it was a military style rifle with the magazine.
Never mind.
SDP,
In regards to hunting (quite popular out here in the hinterlands of rural Missouri) I basically agree that if it takes more than one shot, then the hunter shouldn’t pull the trigger, whether that shooting is with a firearm or bow/crossbow. But things happen, like a small twig that one can’t see that deflects the bullet or arrow, seen it happen more than once. Many times the animal will not move at the sound of the first shot and a second shot is available.
Far too many supposed hunters are not hunters but killers who haven’t taken the time and developed the appropriate skills to be a true hunter. And the “killers” have no qualms about unloading a magazine in attempting to kill the animal. For me, anything less than a sure one shot kill is unethical (and even then, as noted above, that one sure shot may not suffice but if the hunter has the one shot attitude then those mis-happen chances are very few).
The problem right now and has been since Sandy Hook is being able to find the appropriate rounds since all the gun nuts (yes there are many gun nuts-see comments about killing vs hunting above) buy up all the ammo worried that the gubmint will outlaw ammo. Try buying .22 rounds, the simplest of rounds used for target practicing. Almost impossible around here. Paranoid folks buy them all up the day they are available.
There are legitimate and legal uses of firearms, and while some don’t like that fact, usually because they have no clue about firearms other than the brief nonsense they see/hear on TV, firearm ownership and proper usage has had and will continue to have many supporters (and be constitutional legal).
On the blatant hypocrisy of gun owners who claim to need weapons to defend themselves against the tyranny of an unaccountable government:
Every mass shooting, every unjustified gun death is proof of the tyranny of the NRA and it’s most rabid supporters, of the tyranny of an unelected business/ideological faction holding government and therefore the will of the people, including a majority of gun owners, hostage. When a front group for the gun industry prevents any and all legislation and regulations that could prevent such events, when they prevent the nation from even collecting and processing data on gun violence, when they threaten and intimidate politicians who would oppose their agenda on behalf of their constituents, THAT is the textbook definition of tyranny, of the illegitimate rule by threat of force of a self interested few over the natural rights and freedom of the many.
And, as SomeDAMPoet pointed out, the firepower available to the US government, if they were in fact tyrannical, would allow them to obliterate any “patriot” gun owner without said owner ever knowing that death was imminent. Just look at the Youtubes of the Spectre Gunship and Apache Helicopters in action in Afghanistan and Iraq. Or the artillery systems in use around the world. Your tax dollars at work.
The government has showed, at times, incredible levels of restraint. That idiot cattle rancher and his throngs of supporters and the subsequent hostage taking of a NAtional PArk Facility in Oregon come to mind. In both cases, the tyranny was on the part of the citizens.
Duane, I’d point out one area of hunting where a magazine would be needed, the eradication of feral pigs who travel in packs and are dangerous both as individuals and as a group. I’d find an exception to large magazines for that purpose acceptable. FYI for the rest of readers, feral pigs absolutely wreck ecosystems and there are almost no natural predators remaining that can deal with them.
Jon L.
Interesting thought on the problem of feral pigs/hogs. And you are correct that they can wreak havoc on the ecosystem and can be very dangerous to humans.
The Conservation Department in Missouri (considered one of the best in the world) although allowing for shooting feral hogs prefers to trap them and then destroy them. Evidently the hogs are smart enough to figure out where they are being shot at and learn to avoid those areas, moving on into other areas scattering and forming smaller groups which then become larger more spread out. The MDC would prefer to net the herd(?) entirely if possible. Otherwise the hogs spread further and become that much smarter in regards to humans hunting them.
BAN ALL ASSAULT WEAPONS NOW!
Orlando, FL (50 killed, 53 injured)
Blacksburg, VA (32 killed, 17 injured)
Newtown, CT (27 killed, 1 injured)
Killeen, TX (22 killed, 20 injured)
San Ysidro, CA (21 killed, 19 injured)
San Bernardino, CA (14 killed; 21 injured)
Edmond, OK (14 killed, 6 injured)
Binghamton, NY (13 killed, 4 injured)
Aurora, CO (12 killed, 58 injured).
These mass murderers were NOT part of a “well-regulated militia”.
The NRA must be forced by law to stop using the 2nd Amendment as an excuse to make profits off the sales of assault weapons.
And all Republicans and Democrats counting on funds from the NRA must be defeated.
It’s not Disney world out there. It never has been.
1622- Jamestown, VA (300 colonists massacred by their dinner guests: Powhatan Indians)
Define “assault weapon” please. TIA, Duane
It isn’t Disney, but we can do better. Otherwise, why not just give up and go with anarchy? I don’t think we need to look like Somalia or Honduras to preserve the Constitution. Right now, there are more guns than people, and that certainly isn’t working. I am baffled why those that oppose gun control seem to not understand we need gun control to avoid arming terrorists and criminals.
If you believe that the Second Amendment protects the right of individual Americans to bear arms as a bulwark against tyranny, then you necessarily believe that guns should not only be broadly available but should also be as deadly as possible. You aren’t going to win a war against the U.S. armed forces with shotguns and 22s.
Frankly, I don’t understand why anyone who truly believes in this reading of the Second Amendment would support even a ban on fully automatic weapons, regardless of how much mass murder might be committed using fully automatic weapons.
“You aren’t going to win a war against the U.S. armed forces with shotguns and 22s.”
Maybe not, but the Viet Cong, the Taliban, and many other small under-armed groups have defeated far stronger adversaries-France, USSR, USA, etc. . . . It’s not the size of the dog, dog meaning weapon power but the size of the fight in that dog that ultimately will win.
You might be surprised at what U.S. citizens would be capable of doing were the scenario you are suggesting to happen.
And I’d wager that the U.S. armed forces would refuse to fight against their fellow citizens and turn their arms on those demanding that to happen.
True Duane, and what this really indicates is that the whole tyranny of gov’t myth is just that a myth, a puerile fantasy. The reason that the VC et all were able to prevail is that they could easily blend into the population at large, that was their primary survival tactic. If we defaulted back to the rules of engagement of WW2 where cities/civilians were bombed indiscriminately, that advantage ceases to exist in large part. The more important truth here is that the soldiers themselves would absolutely refuse to engage their own families and communities, so the whole tyranny thing is an absurd anti-government propaganda dynamic.
The irony is if you need to arm yourself against your own government, tyranny has already won. If people would just get out and be informed voters, tyranny would not stand a chance. It works much better than wearing goofy hats or plastering your car with bumper stickers.
CIVILIAN vs. MILITARY versions of the AR-15, a legalistic difference.
The only mechanical/physical difference between the civilian AR-15 and the military issued M-4 is the select fire switch that lets the shooter go from semi to full automatic. THIS IS A TECHNICALITY ONLY. When in combat, the M-4 is rarely used on full auto for a number of good reasons. The rate of fire is so high that use on full auto would deplete all of the ammo in all magazines carried by a soldier in less than a minute if the soldier was in sustained combat. A magazine will be emptied on full auto faster than it can be switched out by most soldiers. Continued use on full auto will heat the barrel to the point where the gun may not fire. On full auto, the rate of fire is so high that only a small number of targets can be engaged, and far more rounds than needed will be expended on each target whether or not they find their mark.
FYI, When a group of soldiers heads into combat, one of soldiers is a SAW gunner, or Squad Automatic Weapon. It is a true machine gun designed for that purpose. It’s magazines have a far greater capacity than the M-4 for that reason. It has two rates of fire which I believe are termed standard and adverse, both are full automatic. It is designed for more sustained automatic fire.
WHAT THIS MEANS. During every mass shooting involving it, the AR-15 and other “assault style” weapons have been used exactly the way soldiers use their M-4’s in combat: acquire target & shoot. The AR-15 is, for ALL PRACTICAL PURPOSES, an assault rifle, not a civilian version of the military issued weapon. That is a mountain of sophistry balanced on the head of a pin (select fire switch) by the NRA and the gun industry.
Please feel free to check my analysis out with any active duty or retired military personnel you know.
Thanks, Jon, for that lucid explanation
Can ANYONE point to any of these shooters who belong to a
“well regulated militia”/
2nd amendment statement.
well-regulated (well-equipped) militia (citizen/soldier).
Some further thoughts in no particular order.
Australia solved this problem after their first mass shooting. It can be done, but their gun culture and national identity is quite different than ours in this area. Putting the toothpaste back in the tube will be incredibly hard for America.
We have arrived at a place where the conundrum exists that there is a legitimate case to be made for guns as a means of self defence in some circumstances. The genie of the circular argument for that is out of the bottle. It was not a circular argument when it was contained: the bottle’s contents then were the absence of the influence of the gun industry/lobby. In fact, there was no genie until it was created by them to be released upon us. I think that they did not understand the nature of the genie they created when they rubbed and uncorked that bottle, thinking it would only make them rich and have no other effect. Now the genie has metastasized and it’s creators are defending the power, wealth and influence it has bestowed upon them. Their foul rhetoric and influence aside, they have a tiger by the tail and appear not to care one whit. Their genie owns them body and soul.
Concealed and open carry laws present significant problems for law enforcement when they are responding to active shooter incidents. If civilians are wielding weapons for the purpose of self defence during such incidents, it is highly problematic for law enforcement to rapidly determine who is the active shooter and who is not since all appearances indicate that anyone with a gun is the active shooter. Law enforcement will not take the time needed to sort that out since their lives and those of potential victims are absolutely on the line. It will not be the fault of the cops if innocent civilians holding weapons are killed by them for the failure to instantly obey their orders during the incident.
A similar dynamic takes place before the cops arrive. How can non criminal gun owners determine who is the correct criminal target? How can they tell each other apart?
Accurate combat shooting is a complex, perishable skill that requires constant training at a level that few gun owners have the time to do properly, let alone develop to the needed high level in the first place. Who will be held liable and to what extent for collateral damage/injury/death caused by those with massively inferior skills? Will the gun industry seek to put laws in place to indemnify such people in defence of it’s own interests? Wild west anyone?
“Australia solved this problem after their first mass shooting. It can be done, but their gun culture and national identity is quite different than ours in this area.”
Australia also doesn’t have the 2nd Amendment. So whatever arguments people were having in Australia as part of the debate that preceded the National Firearms Agreement, nobody was able to argue that the proposed law was unconstitutional.
I’ll tell you what, nothing is more dangerously boring than the reading selections in this year’s ELA Regents.
My daughter is 27. She and her friends are some amazingly loving and embracing human beings. They are all well educated, tech savvy and generally knowledgeable. None of them has a prejudiced bone in their bodies, and none of them can understand how anyone of their generation can commit heinous crimes and/or murder. They don’t understand the shootout down the block about gang territory, the robbery for a few dollars or a pair of sneakers or iPhone, not the campus rapist, not the child rapist/murderer, and absolutely not the terrorists, abroad or home grown. They parrot that muslims are good and not murderers while ISIS is beheading people, raping children, keeping sex slaves, because they don’t blanket any race/religion with a broad stroke. I don’t know what to tell any of them, except that I love them, and hope for a future without such atrocities.
Murder-Suicides are apparently a ‘contagion’ (copy cats) of other murder-suicides. It’s time to repeal the first amendment and force the media to censor these horrific attacks for collective our security.
Click to access SuicideAndTheMedia.pdf