This is the statement of charges against celebrated teacher Rafe Esquith.
There is a lot here that is shocking.
But I can’t help but wonder about the claims of actions attributed to him forty years ago. Where is the evidence? How trustworthy are those statements?
I hope that Rafe’s lawyer is aggressive and insists on a fair hearing, with witnesses willing to stand behind their statements.
I still have a strong recollection of the McMartin daycare center and similar cases, where children accused adults of improper behavior and the adults were sent to jail for years. But the charges were false. A charge is a charge. It is not evidence until someone is willing to back it up.
Diane Ravitch's blog 
Reblogged this on David R. Taylor-Thoughts on Education.
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Please also reblog the recent post with now over 75 diverse comments.
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The flirtatious and sexually suggestive emails that Esquith sent to young teenage girls were written between April 26, 2010, and February 18, 2013. Esquith does not dispute that he wrote them.
Esquith supporters said that charges against him were trumped up and that his termination was unfair. The emails alone destroy that argument completely.
There are as of now no criminal charges against Esquith. He lost his job for a very good reason and he chose not to pursue the appeals process available to him. The parallels being drawn to McMartin and to the standards of a judicial proceeding are distractions.
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Tim…you are maligning those of us who say that innuendo, and not full disclosure, should not be a basis of a public hanging. We are asking that before a partially informed public makes emotional decisions, they should wait to hear the evidence from the plaintiff(s) and the defendants. This all will come in out the courts with evidence presented and witnesses testimony given, all under oath.
That is our American jurisprudence system.
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You beat me to the punch, Ellen. Carrying out persec. . . er, prosecution in the court of public opinion has become one of the cheap entertainments of the last 30 years or so (yes, it’s been a sport for much longer, but the Internet and infotainment that has replaced anything close to serious television news has made any semblance of real reportage a fond memory). I would hate to be accused of any crime more serious than jaywalking in the current climate. There are so many arm-chair judges/juries/executioners rolled into one these days that a charge of sexual misconduct against a teacher would quickly have the lynch mobs out in force given half a chance.
If only we got this sort of public outrage against the destruction and private takeover of public institutions such as, ahem, GOVERNMENT schools.
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Agree 100%, MBG. The combination of so many seeing life as one big reality show, and also being able to comment with damaging statements based on casual opinion and not facts, saying anything they wish, but staying anonymous, makes for lack of substance. You and I use our real names and are accessible for scrutiny….these others seem very cowardly when they hide behind pseudonyms. Unless they come up with creds, it is not worth engaging with them.
Teachers who comment and must hide or be in the line of fire in their districts are at different category from shills, trolls, and enraged social media types.
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Ellen, I do wish that anonymous commenting on the Internet were the exception rather than the norm, but then screen names are so often required by sites and I often don’t know whether my real name or a screen name is going to show up. I’ve used the same screen name for so long (since 1992) that I tend to see it as interchangeable with my actual name in the eyes of some long-time followers/antagonists. But given the choice, I’d always prefer to have my legal name on the ranting and raving I write “for publication.” Doesn’t make me any nicer, but at least I figure that it makes me think for a nanosecond or two before hitting “Post.” :^)
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None of those you post here are yet to be confirmed and verified as undeniable evidence at this point of trial.
Thanks for your demonstration of “distractions.”
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I insert here, that emails are very easy to forge.
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Mate – yes, I agree, and I wouldn’t put it past LAUSD to do exactly that. However, Esquith’s lawyer has basically admitted he wrote the emails. He has made no effort to challenge authenticity. He’s only said they were “taken out of context”.
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I forgot those. I was looking at 28/g, which are called “electronic communications”. If they are not disputed then they are not good news for the teacher.
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Not just the McMartin case, but the Kelly Michaels case in NJ (http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/mcmartin/michaelsdecision.HTM) and the Little Rascals case in North Carolina (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Rascals_day_care_sexual_abuse_trial)
are two of the other truly egregious cases in which hysteria and misconduct by investigators and prosecutors ruined the lives of many adults. If you want to delve even more deeply into this sort of thing, try here: (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day-care_sex-abuse_hysteria). To say that we have a talent for witch hunts is an understatement.
I know someone whose heretofore exemplary career in public education was destroyed but false charges of sexual abuse by one student. By the time the teacher was fully exonerated in court with all charges dismissed, he took early retirement: the alternatives just weren’t viable. The only good part was that he was not that far from his planned retirement age. But still, it’s a horrific way to see a great educator, whose conduct had never been called into question, forced to live the rest of his life with nothing but bitter memories of his last year of work.
Are there real instances of child sexual abuse in this country? Of course. But statistics strongly suggest that the vast majority of cases involve one or more family members of the child and/or close acquaintances. The instances with which I’m personally familiar involved a step-father and, much later, a trusted family friend. It’s not that it can’t be the stranger or the not-well-known doctor, teacher, etc., but as many of the above-mentioned cases indicate, school teachers and preschool teachers work out in the open. Anyone can walk into a classroom. The chances that someone could teach for as long as Esquith without having a colleague or administrator or parent or janitor walk in on abuse or other sorts of physical/sexual misconduct seem slim. The smoking gun here is the telling of a joke that one has to be more than a little prudish to take seriously. After that, it’s a bit hard to make sense out of the email “evidence,” but it also seems that the district may have acted similarly to prosecutors and investigators in some of the daycare cases, eliciting false or misremembered testimony through questionable means.
I’d hate to see an abuser go free, but I’d hate more to see an innocent person’s life destroyed through false charges and/or misconduct by those investigating or prosecuting such charges. And that clearly happens.
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None of those cases involved emails about spankings and calling young girls “hottie” or talking about their bottoms being sore or hinting about “sleepovers”. This is not just a he said/she said case – it’s in writing, which, so far as we know, is his own.
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Dienne, with all due respect: you and I and the rest of the world outside of Mr. Esquith know NOTHING about this case at the moment. N-O-T-H-I-N-G. And what’s being released by LAUSD is politically motivated. I can release a statement to the press tomorrow claiming that my ex-wife anally raped my son when he was 7 years old and sent him sexually inappropriate e-mails.
Now, is she guilty?
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MPG — I just need a sanity check here. Do you not find these email exchanges alarming? And do you think Esquith should have been allowed to remain in the classroom after the district discovered the emails?
I ask because the discussions on the recent Esquith posts are so sharply divided that I have to believe that people are talking about completely different subjects.
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I have a hard time taking seriously questions posed to me by someone who goes by “FLERP!”
I’ve seen no emails. Have you?
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So much for the sanity check.
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Setting aside LAUSD’s known corruption, do you think they’d be stupid enough to claim they have emails if they don’t? Do you think they made that up out of whole cloth? Obviously the first thing Geragos is going to do is demand to see the emails. And if there were no emails, or if said emails weren’t written by Esquith, Geragos would be making that known loudly and clearly. He isn’t. His statement pretty much admits that Esquith wrote them. His only defenses are that they were inappropriately obtained and that they were taken out of context.
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Dienne, correct me if I’m wrong, but Esquith hired Mark Geragos as his defense counsel, not you or me or anyone else, right? So unless you’re a top-drawer defense attorney (I’m only lower echelon – my clients are people who can’t afford an actual lawyer), shouldn’t you and the rest of us stop playing guessing games and then concluding that if x hasn’t happened, then clearly Esquith is GUILTY AS CHARGED! (And he’s been charged, actually, with NOTHING!)? Call me crazy, but I would prefer to leave the lawyering to the lawyers. I’ll second-guess Geragos’ tactics and strategy when Faux Snooze offers me some big $$ to do so and not one nanosecond sooner.
And actually, not even then. I like my justice carried out the old-fashioned way: in a court of law, with real sworn testimony and vetted admissible evidence. How about you? Or do accusations of sexual misconduct trump the Constitution?
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Michael — Geragos is not a slow-burner as a plaintiff’s attorney. (And that’s what he’s acting as here — Esquith is not a criminal defendant, he’s a plaintiff.) As a plaintiff’s attorney, Geragos is hyper-aggressive and all about applying pressure. He has no qualms about using the term “crotch-grabbing” in complaints and press releases. So if there is even a respectable argument that the district of completely fabricated these emails, Geragos would have made it twice by now. It’s true that I don’t know this with 100% certainty, but I do have some experience in this area, and I think I’m drawing very basic, reasonable inferences.
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Did you want to be judge, jury, executioner, or bail bondsman?
I honestly don’t care what “experience” you claim to have in this arena. You’re not the attorney of record, a mind-reader, or anything of the sort. What you appear to be is someone who can judge guilt or innocence (even when there are not charges) based on hearsay. Please stay off the jury of anyone I care about.
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I suspected you wouldn’t care about what experience I have.
Btw, you shouldn’t feel like you’re not allowed to make reasonable inferences or to express them. Internet comment threads and informal debates are not governed by the rules of evidence. And it is not unconstitutional for you to have an opinion about something that has not been litigated yet.
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So you would want your children/grandchildren in Esquith’s class?
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RIdiculous question, Dienne. It’s a non-option at present. Were he teaching and my son (now 20) or my non-existent at present grandchildren assigned to his classroom: 1) this potential scandal would either not be happening or would have been settled sufficiently that he would have been cleared to teach; 2) if I had any reason to be concerned with the safety of said imaginary grandchildren, I would likely meet the teacher rather than go into a hysterical hissy-fit on the basis of unsubstantiated rumor-mongering in the press by a district with an enormous motivation to bring down the teacher publicly (without the unpleasant details of an actual trial – you know – where evidence and sworn testimony and all that awkward stuff our legal system dating back to the Magna Carta, at least, demands); and 3) at that point, I’d use my best judgment (assuming, of course, that as the magical grandparent with complete power to decide the welfare of my grandchildren, I’d be the one responsible for the child’s life – not bloody likely) to guide any request for a different teacher.
What makes your question absurd, of course, is that you’ve already convicted Esquith. So your REAL question is: would you want your child/grandchild left alone in a room with a convicted child-molester? The answer to that question is obvious. But it doesn’t apply to Rafe Esquith. He’s not even an accused child molester. Or have you somehow missed that inconvenient fact? Hey, I hear your mail carrier is a rapist. Better ask for a new one! After all, rumor equals conviction, right?
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Michael Paul Goldenberg: thank you for keeping it real, not rheeal.
Please excuse the very long length of my addition to your comments. From up close and personal.
Take a HS where an AP is effectively running the school. The rheephorm ideal: abusive, lazy, shamelessly ineffective except at being disruptive and abusive, a poster child for double standards that favored her and disfavored almost everyone else, her last stop on a district-wide career that saw her file in HQ [according to inside sources] balloon bigger than any other in complaints, bad evals, etc. *Hint: she had an inside connection, high up, to the LAUSD BofE. As rheephormsters like to say in private: nepotism rocks the Teflon Defense against any and all verifiable failings!*
So the theme for her retirement party was to catch all the evil sexual predators amongst the professional and support staff. And just how did that work out?
Oh my… For a short while I was assigned to a math teacher that, temporarily, had some SpecEd students. I was there for only a few days, but the things one finds out when one’s perceptions are not crippled by Rheeality Distortion Fields… It was determined that another adult [I was identified in his classroom as a TA, not SpecED TA, but the formal excuse was that there were a few SpecEd students in his classroom] was necessary because a female student had accused him of sexual harassment during an after-school tutoring session. He had done free after-school tutoring for years and years. I was apprised of this so as to be extra vigilant. And what did I discover the first day or two when, very casually, two female students referred to the accuser? What a shock to Campbell Brown fanboys and fangirls everywhere: that “everyone knew” [meaning, in context, all the students in his class to which the accuser had been assigned] that the student in question was very angry about the teacher giving her a close-to-fail grade and that she was openly telling all her BFFs that she completely made up the accusation as a way of retaliating against him. *Hint: of course, the AP never ever talked to any of the students.*
Result: what the teacher had been doing for free, for years and years, he ceased doing because he couldn’t be alone, after school, with students in his classroom. A second accusation on top of the first would have been disastrous. And as happens in reality and not rheeality, not so long afterwards, he did become part of a tutoring program run for, and paid for, by the HS. So the practical effect was to spend limited and precious school resources to pay for the expert services of a math teacher that they used to get for free!
Rheephorm! Ain’t it grand.
😱
And as for that cage busting achievement crushing no-excuses AP?
I still remember her walking down the hallways of the school during the time between classes, so many many times arm in arm with a particular SpecEd teacher—yes, in front of the entire school so everyone could see just how close they were, and often passing by you could hear them gossiping/dishing the dirt on SpecEd and other teachers. They were literally BFFs. *Anything that came up in a SpecEd Dept meeting in front of that teacher immediately went to her ear—as said to me directly by a couple of the AP’s buddies!* And just what did another SpecEd TA discover/uncover after I had left the school? Well, with all apologies to the owner of this blog, as I read once, “karma is a bitch.” To make a long story short: the “I am going to end my career by eliminating the evildoers” AP was protecting, covering up for, and favoring someone who was accused, convicted and sent to prison for three years for molesting SpecEd students. Oh, and the SpecEd TA that made the terrible discoveries that led to actually catching a real molester? Like myself and so many others, on that AP’s “s**t list.”
Bottom line: rather than sowthefilthfirst let’s getthefactsfirst so we don’t comfort the afflicters and afflict the comforters.
These are serious issues involved and should be treated as such.
Thank you for tackling this in a responsible and mature way and avoiding the hysteria to which the rheephormistas are so susceptible.
😎
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No, it’s not a ridiculous question. By saying he shouldn’t have been fired, you’re saying he should still be teaching. If he should still be teaching, he needs students to teach. Who should those students be? Other people’s children? That sort of thinking usually gets roundly condemned around here.
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“No, it’s not a ridiculous question. By saying he shouldn’t have been fired, you’re saying he should still be teaching. If he should still be teaching, he needs students to teach. Who should those students be? Other people’s children? That sort of thinking usually gets roundly condemned around here.”
Wow, talk about putting words into other people’s mouths, Dienne. I haven’t said “he shouldn’t have been fired” or implied anything one way or the other on that score. So what follows from you is, yes, a ridiculous set of straw-man arguments, finishing with an apparent call for my thinking to be roundly condemned. Except that my thinking isn’t what you suggest. All I said was that you’re asking a ridiculous question when you ask if I’d put my son (or non-existent grandchildren) into Esquith’s class. And I made a perfectly coherent response which you’ve not even TRIED to address. Instead, you’re off on a tangent of fantasy in which I’m putting someone else’s kids into the classroom of a CONVICTED child abuser. Who is doing that? Who’s the convicted (or even ACCUSED) child abuser, Dienne? When was someone arrested? Charged? Indicted? Tried? I missed all those stories.
Please don’t ever do jury duty on any case involving this sort of thing. You apparently are incapable of suspending judgment before there’s even a case, let alone a trial.
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I don’t think Dienne would survive jury selection.
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Not on this sort of case. If the defense didn’t get her dismissed for cause, s/he’d use a peremptory challenge to reject anyone so clearly prejudiced beforehand.
I find that most people have “hot-button” issues in regard to which they are unfit for jury duty. And in high-profile trials, jury selection experts get paid mucho dinero to be certain about who is unfavorable to their client’s interests. While that can be made to look sleazy, at least in principle if both sides have reasonable access to the relevant information, it seems like due diligence on the part of attorneys to try to get rid of folks who are clearly biased. But then, no one pays me for my views on these things. 🙂
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I’m aware of this practice to get rid of potential jurists who are clearly biased against an alleged criminal who hasn’t been proven guilty or innocent yet.
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And, again, no one is talking about conviction – no charges have even been filed. The question is, was his behavior inappropriate as a teacher tasked with the welfare of minor children? Those emails – which, again, he has not disputed – are blatantly inappropriate, even if they are not criminal. I don’t have to wait until some girl has definitively been molested before I take steps to keep my girls away from a creep. Other parents shouldn’t have to either.
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What emails? You’ve seen emails? I haven’t. I’ve read a couple of newspaper articles. Let me know when you have verified copies of some emails. Thanks in advance.
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Dienne, he may be a creep or he may interact with former students in a completely theatrical over the top manner in discussing their looks and lives. They are teenage girls so he should not be doing so. But the jury is certainly still out as to whether those were the worst out of hundreds of e-mail conversations he had with those girls. Does he talk in that over the top flirtatious manner to every kid, raving about their looks and telling them they will have boyfriends/girlfriends who can’t resist them? I have certainly seen verbal interactions like that between adult and students that when you are present, just don’t seem sexual at all, even though a third party coming in would wonder.
I am not excusing this and I don’t think it is appropriate. I just find it odd that all the teens who were getting those e-mails weren’t ever interviewed. Or were they and they said “that’s just Rafe when he wants to make you feel better about yourself.” But I certainly don’t have a problem with more investigating to find out. That’s why I can’t understand why there wasn’t a single word from any of those girls or parents in the entire complaint. Why not?
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“I haven’t said “he shouldn’t have been fired” or implied anything one way or the other on that score.”
That’s what this whole issue is about. Criminey. It started with Diane’s post with pretty much that question – should Esquith have been fired. That’s the only question on the table at this point. All the documentation provided by LAUSD has been about terminating Esquith, not indicting him. If you look at that paperwork, can you honestly say that LAUSD had no grounds for terminating Esquith? If and when any criminal charges are ever filed, I might opine on that. But as of now, yes, there is plenty of evidence to support Esquith’s termination.
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So if Diane posts a question and the conversation branches off, everyone who weighs in is still responding to that precise question? I operate in a slightly different realm of discourse, Dienne. And so do you. You put words in my mouth. Just apologize or withdraw the assertion. Or don’t. I’ll go with what I’ve actually said and anyone that cares to look will see that I didn’t EVER comment on whether Esquith “should” have been fired. For all I know, he looked cross-eyed at a janitor or assistant principle or someone. I’m sure he should be grateful he has not yet been hanged from the yardham, keelhauled, or drawn and quartered.
You don’t have any Mathers in your family history, perchance?
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Bottom line..if he admits to writing the emails he should be terminated from his position as a teacher. Why are so many here coming to his defense?
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@Bemo: you see someone saying, “Don’t care what he admits, what he did, what is proved against him, I’ll defend him to the death and he should NOT lose his job”? Because I’ve missed anything along those lines.
In case you just set foot into this complex and lengthy conversation, let me state that those who aren’t calling for Mr. Esquith to be put into the deepest dungeon in the kingdom or have his teeth knocked out are just a teensy-weensy bit concerned that there is a trial by media and innuendo going on. and that someone’s career is being destroyed without charges being brought, an arrest made, evidence put into the record legally and with a chance for a judge to rule on its relevance and legal grounds – you know – all that annoying legal stuff that keeps us from just lynching people we take a dislike to. Crazy, I know, but what can you do? Justice: you can’t beat it with a shovel, can’t throw it from a moving car. But you can destroy it by moving for us to returning to trial by ordeal, stoning, and any number of other methods that at least in this country we’ve chosen to reject.
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“…just a teensy-weensy bit concerned that there is a trial by media and innuendo going on. and that someone’s career is being destroyed without charges being brought, an arrest made, evidence put into the record legally and with a chance for a judge to rule on its relevance and legal grounds….”
But that’s the point. People can be terminated without enough evidence to warrant an arrest. Perhaps Esquith did nothing illegal. But assuming those emails are authentic and that he did, in fact write them (points which neither Esquith nor his lawyer dispute), then there is plenty of evidence to justify his termination. That’s what the attached document is – LAUSD’s case in favor of Esquith’s termination and a pre-emptive response to the class-action lawsuit. The lawsuit, of which Esquith is lead plaintiff, alleges that LAUSD targets older/more expensive/more outspoken teachers with false/trumped up/exaggerated charges. LAUSD may very well do that, but Esquith’s case is a lousy example – LAUSD had plenty of grounds to target him for removal from the classroom and termination as a teacher.
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Plenty of grounds if in fact they have “plenty of grounds.” And what is the basis of your conclusion that they, in fact, have such grounds? The unsubstantiated ‘evidence’ they are leaking to “prove” that they had plenty of grounds. Circular? Seems like 360 degrees to me. Doesn’t seem like proof. Have yet to see anything that would at this point convince me. If there is actual evidence presented that is authenticated and can’t be refuted, well, then there actually are grounds. But why would they be leaking them to the media? If I had someone by the short hairs, I think I’d wait to make my play where it counts: in a courtroom. Instead, they do what they can to destroy him without setting foot in court. And it certainly seems to be working in some minds.
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no – not putting kids in the classroom of a convicted child sexual abuser; putting kids in the classroom of a sleazebag who wrote threatening emails to girls who were very young…. fifth grade —- what age is that? 11? … and then sexually suggestive emails to girls who were 14…
we’re all pissed at sleazebag Kevin Johnson and his sexual predation on young girls (no criminal charges filed, no court case – yet), but you want to give this man a pass?
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The word you’re struggling to write, like another former commenter here, is “alleged”; it seems to be impossible for you to write it. So instead you simply insist that you need not use it since you know for a fact that Esquith is a blah, blah, blah.
I don’t. He might be. If and when I’m convinced that he is, I’ll say so. But not before. Does that make me a “supporter of a convicted pedophile”? Good luck convincing anyone of that who relies on something besides unbridled emotion.
As for Mr. Johnson, seems like there’s a quantum difference in what he’s accused of, and there are actual accusations by alleged victims, not some outside agency with a vested interest in destroying him. If every word you read about Johnson came from, say, his rivals for the mayor’s office, would that matter? Would you presume that all accusations of sexual misconduct are created equal? All judgment goes out the window if “sex” is in the charges? Seems like that triggers a degree of unreason in you that, while hardly unique, is unbecoming to someone who cares about justice.
Add to that the fact that Johnson is unsympathetic to progressives for a host of well-known reasons. Esquith is a renowned and beloved teacher who accomplished much to be admired, it appears. He’s under attack by notoriously corrupt agencies and their agents. Seems like grains of salt might be in order here. But not for you. You’ve seen all you need to see, heard all you need to hear. Who cares, then, whether any of it or all of it is true? Who cares about any sort of exculpatory evidence if it exists? The charges of Great Evil have been insinuated. “Evidence” has been leaked. String ’em up before he gets to work tomorrow to kill again. Oh, wait: he’s not working. Well, string ’em up anyway! Outrage über alles.
Sorry. I’m going to stick with due process, evidence, etc. If someone has committed egregious crimes, violated professional conduct, acted unethically, and the evidence is there, then by all means: let justice be done. Just not before.
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Here is a recent story about a teacher that spent over a year and jail and was found not guilty.He has lost everything.
http://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/community/fort-worth/article48025285.html
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Everyone deserves a fair hearing.
But I am reminded of all the apologist teachers who claimed they would feel no hesitation at all having their sons and daughters in his class. Do you still feel that way? Do you have a protective bone in your body?
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“But I am reminded of all the apologist teachers who claimed they would feel no hesitation at all having their sons and daughters in his class. Do you still feel that way? Do you have a protective bone in your body?”
I never said that, but based on zero ACTUAL evidence, I wouldn’t line up to hang him. Seems like we have a lot of folks whose concept of American jurisprudence is remarkably far from that old crazy “innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.” I beg the powers that be that none of you ever serve on a jury for any case more serious than a jaywalking charge, and then against someone who is wealthy enough to pay any fine without feeling a pinch.
By the way, what about apologist parents? Wouldn’t they be more relevant here? Or is it only teachers you’re going after? I wouldn’t hesitate to report misconduct by a colleague if I had reasonable evidence of it. I’m pretty sure that overhearing the joke that started this witch hunt wouldn’t have gotten me to report someone. But someone did. Your heroine? A teacher who “blew the whistle” when no parent ever registered a complaint, and then magically a bunch of sketchy and as of yet unsubstantiated evidence emerges. Not in the least bit suspicious. Always believe the victim, right? Even when there isn’t one, unless LAUSD is the molested, abused child in this case. Feh.
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Oh, and by the way, no, not a “protective bone” in my body. I like to sit around schoolyards watching bullies. And I never lift a finger.
Where do people come up with the idiocy that passes for commentary? Apparently, if we don’t all jump up and grab pitchforks and torches and storm Rafe Esquith’s home RIGHT BLOODY NOW, we’re all guilty of child abuse, negligence, etc. Remind me to jump out a window next time I’m not living in a one-storey home.
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MPG, therein lies the issue. Have you read the emails? Apparently, the girl’s friends had to ask Rafe to back off from engaging with her. Rafe admits this and then plays the poor jilted victim role in subsequent emails. It is true that the girl continued to accept money from him as a benefactor but that creates the power dynamics. The girl likely has limited means and might have had an unstable home. Are we to rely on 14-yr-old’s to stand up against abusive teachers? It’s quite clear you didn’t think the joke was inappropriate and had it been up to you, Rafe would still be teaching and harassing this girl. I guess you think he’s been wronged by having to end that dialogue, eh?
Explain this. How does one discover such inappropriate conduct when the perpetrators clearly warn victims not to tell? While nearly all parents wouldn’t want their kids in his class now (or certainly not any communications outside public classrooms), your behavior scares me more. It creates an environment where true pedophiles could easily get away with their crimes. I am not accusing Rafe of committing any crime but under your “see no evil” approach, it becomes difficult to even investigate potential abuse. Or are you saying LAUSD had a right to review his emails? Outside that teacher complaint, none of this was likely to be discovered. Ok, let’s hear your self-righteous response.
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Here in San Diego we had a famous case against a guy name Dale. After he spent a year and a half in jail, the deputies at the San Diego County jail took up a collection to send Akiki home in a limousine. He went from being no doubt guilty of the most horrible molestation of pre-school children imaginable to a guy that was a symbol of what happens during an over-zealous prosecution. His case was going on at the same time as the McMartin case. http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2012/may/09/dale-akiki-reflects-historic-molestation-trial/
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Those preceding this have stated better than I could why we should wait to find out where the truth really lies. I do not know. I do know that most of our great men in history had feet of clay, as do we all. Who can cast the first stone?
However, if allegations are true then he deserved to be terminated. HE knows. His accusers should know, I do not. Way too often people jump to conclusions in so many aspects of life.
Anyway, as some have said: no good deed goes unpunished. He was by all accounts a GREAT teacher. Would that people would remember us by our good deeds, not by our failings. That stands for everyone and for all times.
Eventually, hopefully the truth will come out regarding him.
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The “critics” who keep saying that there are e-mails that prove Rafe is guilty seem to be missing one vital fact. If these alleged e-mails are from 40 years ago, that would be 1975, but electronic mail, most commonly called email or e-mail had only been around since around 1993. In addition, when did LAUSD hook up classrooms to the internet so teachers would have access to sending e-mails? I don’t think it was 1993. It was even later.
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Did you read the link? The emails are not from 40 years ago -they date from 2010-2013. Hardly ancient history. Please read them and tell me that anything about those emails is acceptable. What would happen to a 50+ year old man who was sending such emails to your 14 year old daughter? If it were my daughter, he’d best learn to like Jello.
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I read the e-mails. And read the ENTIRE complaint.
A good portion is spent recounting 11 year old girls being sent by their parents to sleepovers at a 22 year old man’s house where they were sexually abused. With no explanation as to why these parents were sending their young daughters to an adult man’s house for overnights. It happened 35 years ago and the accuser doesn’t seem to be asked any question that an investigator would ask. Like why her parents were sending her there in the first place. Why not ask the obvious? Why even include such an odd story, unless it was designed to make people think that Rafe was a sexual predator?
The other portion has out of context inappropriate e-mails to FORMER students. Most seem to be 14 year old students now in high school, so around 3 years after they were in his classroom. Again, NONE of them was asked about those e-mails and how they felt. Why wouldn’t that be included?
I always find it troublesome when investigators who are supposed to want to find the truth only seem to cherry pick certain facts out of context and not explain the entire story. Why? What did the girls who received those e-mails say? What kind of investigation doesn’t ask the girls and their parents who received those e-mails.
Instead of interviewing those girls who received the e-mails, they spent a lot of time talking to another person who Another person who –decades ago — accuses him of “throwing a pack of cigarettes” at her and humiliating her in front of other kids publicly when he thought she was smoking. Really? That’s included here? Because it’s important that you interview the girl who got the cigarettes thrown at her and NOT interview even one of the girls who received those inappropriate e-mails?
There may certainly be a problem with Rafe, but this is not the kind of investigation I would have expected by people who want to find out what happened.
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Listing charges that ancient seems a sign of desperation. Probably because they have a desperate case to make…but LA Unified also can’t do the smart thing and walk away at this point.
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I agree the ancient charges seem a bit desperate. But did you read the emails from 2010-2013? I get the feeling that many people defending Esquith have not.
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I have read them but am holding on judgement until we hear the other side. The district has prepared a damning sounding list… But that’s exactly what their lawyers are paid to do – leave out context and create the appearance of horrific guilt.
We will have to see what happens – unfortunately that won’t be until court hearings because his lawyers can’t do anything else.
My one caution is: He was dealing with tough case high school students. My own high schooler (upper middle class white boy) is pretty off-color and risqué in his language and we understand exactly what he means. Much of how he would like to communicate with teachers might sound bad taken out of the context.
So I don’t know if we’re dealing with a culture challenge here. The district intentionally seeking to provoke upper middle class values when they aren’t realistic.
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Doug,
Rafe taught fifth-grade students, not high school students.
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Thanks for the clarification, Diane. Apologies for the error.
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I have always enjoyed this blog as a credible source of information countering the education reform movement, and enjoyed Reign of Error immensely.
This is why I am frustrated by Ravitch’s choice to align herself–and, in doing so, the credibility of the anti-reform movement–behind this individual. I do not know if he is guilty, though the e-mails are unsettling.
The inclination to defend Esquith parallels the police officers who defended “their own” in Chicago, as well as many other bureaucracies. Regardless of whether or not he is innocent, as teachers we should examine our own urge to argue his innocence. And certainly, it is discrediting that this site has decided to exert its credibility for his sake.
In a school, a teacher is in a position of power–just like police officers in our communities. And yes, the accusation and condemnation of the innocent is a tragedy. So is, though, the silence of too many for fear of accusing someone without absolute, undeniable proof. This is how sexual assault culture remains prevalent in our colleges and universities, how police corruption and violence goes unnoticed and unpunished, and yes, how crimes are committed against children by teachers.
As a teacher, do I hate the image? Of course. Do I want to defend my profession? Of course!
But before I speak with too much conviction, I need to think about the impulse in the first place–and the ramifications of the existing structure.
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I don’t think Diane defends the teacher. I think she just feels that the case is similar to the general accusation, by the reformers, of all teachers with being incompetent.
Let’s not forget about the thousands of teachers who got fired without due process during school take overs. They were all collectively accused of being so incompetent and were doing such disservice to the kids in their care that they needed to have their contracts terminated without delay.
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This.
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Mate-
I agree 110% with your second paragraph. Far too often teachers are the victims of scapegoating, public condemnation, and systemic abuse, which Ravitch expertly researches and argues.
My worry is that the collection of posts on this blog, along with the comments attached to them excusing Esquith’s behavior, undermine the effort to defend the teaching profession, as our first goal should be the safety and security of students.
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“My worry is that the collection of posts on this blog, along with the comments attached to them excusing Esquith’s behavior, undermine the effort to defend the teaching profession, as our first goal should be the safety and security of students.”
You really can’t control yourself, can you, Marcus? You can’t stop leaving out the word “alleged,” because you don’t think these are allegations but proved truths. So when we question the veracity of the insinuations and claims, you are aghast. But the problem is in YOUR head, not ours. We simply repeat the obvious: where is the proof of wrongdoing? Where was it authenticated and by whom? Where is provenance for the supposed evidence? Until that’s a matter of public record, there’s nothing but vapor here. Except in the minds of the would-be prosecutors, jailers, and executioners.
And you: the guy who comes off like (sorry to engage in this sort of speculation, but your relentlessness on this, Inspector Gerard, makes it hard to avoid) someone with a guilty past who is lashing out at someone else who thus far isn’t even accused of anything outside of a sleaze rag and the minds of people who apparently don’t need a trial, evidence, judges, juries, evidence, or anything else to convict someone and attack those who defend his RIGHTS not defend his alleged acts. Alleged, Marcus. Try to get that word through your head and keep it in front of you before you send another pointless email wondering why not everyone is knotting up a noose here.
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At this point I’ll bow out of the discussion. I have tried to make it clear in my comments that all of this behavior is alleged, and even have apologized earlier for leaving it out. I don’t have means of editing my posts with this medium, and I am not trying to attach a label.
I feel as if I have been clear with my positions, and I don’t believe I have done anything to warrant the name-calling hyperbole that you have been lobbing. While disheartened, I understand that this is a free forum for commenting and will simply choose to step away.
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Marcus – for what it’s worth (if you’re still reading this) I appreciate your efforts here on this thread. I think you have made your points very clearly. Seems to me that people who have suggested that Esquith committed any wrongdoing (if in fact he wrote those emails) have been lashed out against rather unfairly and made to seem as if we’re the problem rather than people who simply disagree. Normally that sort of behavior is known as gaslighting. I’m sorry for your first unpleasant experience here and I hope you’ll try again sometime. Most threads are not nearly this contentious.
MPG – I too am done engaging with you. Like Marcus, I feel I’ve made my points clearly. If Esquith did in fact write those emails (which I’ve acknowledged he might not have, but even he’s not making that argument), then he was guilty of seriously unprofessional behavior and was rightfully terminated as a teacher for cause. If you can’t acknowledge that much, then I’m afraid we’re speaking from different planets and I’m not sure how further dialogue is going to help. I have never accused Esquith of criminal behavior.
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Dienne wrote, “If Esquith did in fact write those emails (which I’ve acknowledged he might not have, but even he’s not making that argument), then he was guilty of seriously unprofessional behavior and was rightfully terminated as a teacher for cause.”
Ahh, a $1 billion dollar class action law suit filed by Esquith is not making an argument?
Since LAUSD did not go to court against him, why would he make this a national issue in the media? A billion dollars claim is very loud.
Whatever he wrote in those e-mails must be taken into context and then a law must be matched with that context to prove he actually did something illegal instead of — something that a prude thinks is a crime that isn’t a crime.
Where’s the law that makes a case that Esquith did something illegal by what he wrote in those e-mails?
How do YOU define unprofessional behavior as apposed to the laws that define it?
Again, if Esquith is guilty of breaking any laws that define unprofessional beahvior, why hasn’t LAUSD gone to court to persecute him? I suspect the reason they didn’t is because they know they’d lose in a court of law where guilt is defined by the written laws not by what an individual or group thinks on their own outside of the law.
In court, LAUSD is on trial—not Esquith. In the media, thanks to those individuals who have already found him guilty, Esquith is on trial—not LAUSD. In the court of public opinion all it takes is a few to find him guilty without a jury, lawyers and a judge. This is often called a public witch hunt. What this means is that if Esquith wins the court case against LAUSD, there will still be people who think he is a pervert and guilty.
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How many times do I have to say it? No, LAUSD does NOT have to prove that Esquith did anything illegal. All they have to do is prove that he behaved unprofessionally and that they had grounds to “jail”/terminate him. Professional misconduct worthy of termination is different than criminal behavior – no employer has to prove criminal behavior in order to have grounds for termination. I really don’t understand what’s so unclear here? You can’t possibly be disputing that, can you?
Esquith’s class action lawsuit against LAUSD alleges that LAUSD wrongfully targets, “jails” and terminates older, more expensive and more outspoken teachers on false/trumped up/exaggerated charges. It is the plaintiffs’ burden to prove that, not LAUSD’s burden to disprove it. LAUSD has, rightly or wrongly, launched the first salvo by releasing the charges against Esquith that led to his termination. I’ve acknowledged many times that those charges could be fictitious, forged, planted, etc. But even Esquith hasn’t made that claim. If he hadn’t written those emails, Geragos would be loudly and repeatedly proclaiming that – he would not simply be claiming that they were “taken out of context” (remember, as FLERP! pointed out, Geragos had no reservations about using the inflammatory phrase “crotch-grabbing” in relation to Cortines – he is NOT opposed to fighting this case in the media). If and when it is conclusively determined that Esquith wrote those emails, that destroys his case. What possible “context” would make it okay for a 50+ year old teacher to be sending sexually suggestive emails to 13 and 14 year old former students? If and when those emails are conclusively determined to be genuine and written by Esquith, it will be clear that he was, in fact terminated for cause for unprofessional behavior. No criminal charges ever need to be filed.
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Diane – I posted a fairly lengthy response to Lloyd, yet it doesn’t seem to be appearing. Is this a moderation issue?
Anyway, the gist of the comment was, no LAUSD does not have to prove any criminal wrong-doing on Esquith’s part. Just unprofessional conduct not in line with the California educational code. If those emails are valid and written by Esquith, I can’t possibly see how they wouldn’t qualify as unprofessional. What possible context could make it okay for a 50+ year old teacher to email sexually suggestive emails to former students who were then 13 to 14 years old?
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Dienne, Lloyd does not have any comments in moderation. However, I note that he did respond to you.
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Dienne,
If your comment had two or more links, then it has to wait for approval to appear. That’s the same for everyone.
As for, ” I can’t possibly see how they wouldn’t qualify as unprofessional.”
That is your opinion. But your opinion only counts for you. It would take a court case and ruling by a real judge and not an elected school board that didn’t see the evidence but fired him based on the allegations of hired and not elected district officials. Until a court with a real judge and possibly a jury rules that he was unprofessional based on the evidence that LAUSD used, I will reserve my judgement.
But since LAUSD isn’t taking him to court, then how will we ever know?
Why did you not mention the fact that he is taking LAUSD to court in a $1 Billion dollar suit? Does he really think he is innocent of the allegations and is willing to take the case to court himself to prove he wasn’t unprofessional?
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Oh great. Just after I mention that my comment wasn’t appearing, it appears. Sorry for any duplication.
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“Why did you not mention the fact that he is taking LAUSD to court in a $1 Billion dollar suit?”
Um, I did mention that? BTW, as far as the amount, good luck with that. Plaintiffs can sue for any amount they want. Whether or not they’ll get anywhere close to it… well, again, good luck with that.
Anyway, if Esquith wanted to prove that he was innocent of the charges LAUSD used to terminate him, he could have appealed the decision. He chose not to. The class-action lawsuit is not the same thing.
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Is there a like button for this comment?
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About why Esquith did not come before the kangaroo court at LAUSD to make an appeal. And why he does not now respond to the trial by media and public bashing from unproven allegations of alleged emails…Geragos months explained the first, and many in LA understand how unreliable LAUSD appeals invitations have proven for many other teachers. This is all available to those who want to take the time to search the archives.
And to those who insist Rafe sent these emails with their proof being Geragos comments, this is not factual. Geragos did not specify in the media any such determination. If he did, he would be liable for malpractice.
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“What would happen to a 50+ year old man who was sending such emails to your 14 year old daughter? If it were my daughter, he’d best learn to like Jello.”
Ah, vigilante justice! Ain’t it satisfying to fantasize about? What would happen to a 50 (plus or minus) year-old-man (or woman) who took it upon him/herself to dole out “justice” to someone without the benefit of the legal right to do so, particularly to someone the only “evidence” against at this point are words printed in the newspaper, alleged to have been taken from someone’s computer and e-mails, but not yet entered into evidence in a court, not yet found to be legal evidence by a judge, and no trial or even indictment having taken place?
Now I’m no attorney or legal expert like you, Dienne, but I’m going to guess that that vigilante would be doing some jail time. Whether s/he’d be dining primarily on liquids I can’t say nor do I care to speculate. I’m just glad that there’s still some semblance of law operating between me and people who think that their ire gives them righteous cause to take the law into their own hands, even if they’re just blustering. Because blustering feels SO good, even when it’s pure posturing. Your self-assured self-righteousness disturbs me greatly, but I wouldn’t consider for an instant knocking your teeth out just because I find your expressions of lawlessness troubling.
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So when these emails are entered into evidence and proven to have come from Esquith’s computer, is your tone going to change?
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Of course not.
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My tone? Oh, the one that is concerned about someone who is posturing about knocking someone’s teeth out? No, sorry, I never feel comfortable about vigilantes, and much less so about people who want to do “justice” based on nothing more than allegations planted in the media but which at present have no legal standing whatsoever.
Did you check on your rapist postman? Oh, and by the way: did you know that Helen Gehagan Douglas is married to a THEZBIAN? Richard M. Nixon wanted you to know. Ah, American smear campaigns are such a time-honored tradition.
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Yep, smear campaigns are an American tradition and Thomas Jefferson is guilty of doing it during his presidential campaign against Adams. Jefferson actually hired someone to spread the lies and gossip against Adams, and the hired man ended up in prison after Jefferson won the election. Jefferson didn’t send him to prison. Adams did who went to court to prove the slander and libel was wrong and he won the case, but it was too late because Jefferson won the election. The two didn’t speak for years but made up later in old age, and became close friends again. They even died on the same day.
“Just as truth persists, however, so does friendship. Twelve years after the vicious election of 1800, Adams and Jefferson began writing letters to each other and became friends again. They remained pen pals for the rest of their lives and passed away on the same day, July 4, 1826. It was the 50th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence.”
http://mentalfloss.com/article/12487/adams-vs-jefferson-birth-negative-campaigning-us
I’m watching a TV series now about this American tradition. It’s called “Scandal”. The TV series, that is and it is not set in 1800, but today.
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I knew that Adams and Jefferson fell out, that they had long been friends, and that they reconciled and died on the same 4th of July. Didn’t know about the smears or lawsuit. Jefferson was no saint, as continues to be revealed over time. FDR and Teddy R weren’t saints either, though they remain atop my list of favorite presidents. One fellow who has continued to climb in my estimation over the last decade wasn’t perfect either: Dwight David Eisenhower.
On the other hand, none among Nixon, Reagan, or the Bushes has improved with time. The stench just gets more and more rank. I do wonder what my son will have to say when he turns 65 about Barack Obama, but I very much doubt I’ll be around to find out.
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I recently read a book about Teddy and FDR. “The China Mirage” was full of shocking facts I’d never heard before. Be careful, if you haven’t read this book, it might tarnish the reputation of Teddy and FDR even further and add a few more notable names to the list.
It seems that many of our oldest and wealthiest east coast famlies—known as the blue bloods—-became wealthy through the opium trade in China during the 19th century.
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Thanks for the tip. Would be surprising if Roosevelt money didn’t come from something a bit untoward somewhere back down the line: not too many ridiculously rich American families didn’t benefit from a criminal ancestor or two: the Kennedys and Bushes for two 20th century examples.
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Sorry, “tone” was a typo/braino. Meant “tune”. If this goes to court, and if it is proven that the emails were obtained from Esquith’s computer and that he did in fact write them, will you then condemn his behavior? Will you then say he is unfit for teaching? If not, what will it take? Seems that people are reflexively defending Esquith because LAUSD is so odious (which, for the millionth time, I agree, they are). But just because LAUSD is odious it does not necessarily follow that Esquith is blameless.
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Evidently no one remembers the way LAUSD quickly sent questionable investigators, former cops, to the school, and with NO notice to the parents, they grabbed kids out of class, The children were unaware of any of this investigation, but then these district cops hammered them with questions about their teacher, looking for indiscretions while planting ideas in their minds (as with the McMartin case)…and all with no counselor from CPS, or parent, there (which is a legal requirement to question potential sexual assault victims who are underage). All this testimony is garbage and probably will not be allowed in the court as valid…and much is hearsay as well with the drivel they put out as proof…the snippets of ‘maybe’ real emails.
Their AG is a the most egregious and inept person at Beaudry and has been doing this kind ot mismanagement for years. Why do you think they have to hire the hugely expensive law firm of O’Melveny and Meyers so often to represent them, and waste even more taxpayer money?.
All these students were/are 4/5 graders and are only 9-10 years old. They were so intimidated and terrified by this storm trooper approach that some left the school, and others needed medical help. Yet remember with this vigorous and intimidating investigation, still NOT ONE parent complained about Rafe. The district has had to strong arm so many to get any of this info…if indeed any of it has even a modicum of truth.
As to the charges from 40 years ago, does the district not do a hiring search of every single teacher and employee? Of course they do. They are legally bound to do finger printing and seaching for past criminal activity. How come none of this gossip showed up then? Or have they always been so lazy and inefficient that they overlook criminal searches when hiring teachers? Either way, the district managers are far from credible.
Please…yet again…go read all this in these archives and in the media. There is a wealth of material on how badly LAUSD handled it all from the get go.
They did the same with the Miramonte/Berndt case where they shut down the entire school, traumatized the entire student body and their parents, and sent every teacher to teacher jail. Then the lawsuits started pouring in, as will surely happen here and now, It cost the District over $137 Million in payoffs to parents. With all the mistakes and lawsuits of the Deasy/Broad/Villaraigosa years, it cost the taxpayers, (due to the inept and possible fraudulent LAUSD management, and with their too often ineffectual and pathetic BoE), about $700 Million in waste…LAUSD, (run too much by Eli Broad and his henchmen), needs a deep cleaning,
Also, generally speaking….all email is open to interpretation of the reader, and can be dangerous on the face of it. When you read a few words online, without looking at the face and eyes of the sender, it is often impossible to tell whether the words are meant to be a joke. This is a common place hazard with both emails and texting…I did not come up with this…it is written about by experts in brain studies, medical research, IT folks, etc.
I worry that Dienne who is generally so rational and insightful, may have had a repressed memory awakened….or she may be feverish and coming down with the flu. But there are now so many careful thinkers/writers saying to all …DO NOT pre-judge…wait for the facts to come forward in a court of law, with witnesses who are under oath.
Also, as I said yesterday at the beginning of this disturbing brouhaha, during ‘voir dire’… aka jury selection, many here would be dismissed from jury duty for pre existing bias.
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Tune/tone. . . well, I didn’t know I was singing, but more to the point, one thing I love about hypotheticals posed by people who already presume to know the truth (and hence don’t think they’re posing hypotheticals at all) is that the best way to deal with them is to say, “Ask me when things pan out as you believe they will and not before.”
Same answer I give to HRC supporters who want my pledge in blood that if (and of course they mean “when”) Hillary is nominated I will support and vote for her. My answer has been consistent on this question: ask me when she’s nominated. Then ask me again come early November. I might answer. But in that case, my vote is between me and the ballot and no one else. There was a time when it was considered crass to ask an American the disposition of his/her ballot. In any event, I haven’t heard Hillary nominated by any party for POTUS as of yet. If there’s any justice, she won’t be. And meanwhile, I feel no obligation to commit myself to such an uncertain future.
As for Esquith, I suspect there’s a long way to go before the email question is settled definitively. Since he’s not teaching, however, why exactly are some people here, most prominently yourself, so eager to marshal folks for a hanging? I just don’t get it. I repeatedly ask about your apparent lack of respect for the rule of law and the basic tenets of American jurisprudence. You don’t appear inclined to reply. I can’t blame you. It’s embarrassing to admit that you don’t really care what the law says about situations like this one. An accusation and some evidence that has at this moment zero legal standing suffices to get the blood lust up. As at least one other person has pointed out, that’s hardly consistent with your more typical reasoned comments here.
Well, luckily for America, we still prefer to try someone before we hang him/her. I’m going to go with that: show me legal evidence, not hearsay with no force of law, and maybe I’ll venture an opinion on guilt or innocence. Until them, I remain agnostic, with a large dose of skepticism about the methods through which this innuendoes are being made and those behind making them.
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MPG – the law says that employers can terminate employees for cause without having to get a criminal conviction against them.
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In my state, teachers in charter schools (and if the governor and legislature have their way, in every school) are at-will employees. Conviction? There need be no charges, no complaint, just no renewal of contract or termination whenever the charter management company decides to end employment. “At-will” means just that. I have not for one second been discussing or arguing over Esquith’s termination. I’ve been arguing against this public conviction in the media and blogosphere. And that is a conviction of criminal charges brought nowhere but in the minds of the public with the intent of complete character assassination. Decent human beings would refuse to play along.
On Sat, Dec 12, 2015 at 2:29 AM, Diane Ravitch’s blog wrote:
> Dienne commented: “MPG – the law says that employers can terminate > employees for cause without having to get a criminal conviction against > them.”
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To Dienne:
Fascist and communist love people like you who are easily manipulated by all FABRICATED facts.
Please do not involve in any stock market. You will be penniless due to gullibility.
I am frightened to live in a society where people are nice but gullible like you. Back2basic
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Ay, ay, ay. I haven’t stooped to calling anyone names, but I get called names. Okay. But just so you know, communism and fascism are polar opposites.
I have stated numerous times that, yes, LAUSD is corrupt. Yes, they targeted Esquith after he became a thorn in their side. LAUSD does not come out looking pretty in this by any means.
But none of that excuses Esquith himself. READ the emails. Please defend what he says in those emails. If you can, it scares me if you work with children – those emails are blatantly inappropriate.
Yes, I suppose it’s vaguely possible that the emails are fictitious or planted or forged or something. But (A) neither Esquith nor his lawyers have made that defense and (B) LAUSD, as corrupt as it is, is not stupid – they’re not going to go claiming they have emails in their possession that they don’t actually have or that they haven’t thoroughly verified. They know this is going to end up in court and splashed all over the media. Trust me, they’ve got their ducks lined up on this one.
But I’ll try to meet you all halfway here. If it becomes obvious that LAUSD is, in fact, making it all up and Esquith is exonerated, I’ll be the first to be shouting mea culpas. On the other hand, how many of you, if it becomes obvious that LAUSD’s case against Esquith – especially the emails – is solid, will agree to the same?
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Dienne,
Correct me if I’m wrong, anyone, but I keep reading here that LAUSD has not filed any charges to go to court to convict Esquith of anything he wrote in those alleged e-mails. From what I understand, it is Esquith taking the district to court.
So, if it is a fact that LAUSD is just using the alleged e-mails as an excuse to fire him and he’s guilty, why not go to court?
Therefore, how can LAUSD get a conviction in court if they aren’t going to court? If we learn that Esquith is guilty of any crime, it will have to be from his case against LAUSD, right? He’d have to lose the case? But what is the case? What is Esquith taking LAUSD to court over?
“Teacher Rafe Esquith files $1 billion suit vs. LA schools.”
http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/15/us/los-angeles-teacher-class-action-lawsuit-rafe-esquith/
In fact, I Googled “LAUSD files lawsuit against Rafe Esquith,” and I couldn’t find anything in the media. Everything I found was about Rafe taking LAUSD to court for that alleged accusations.
Why would Rafe risk going to court over that alleged accusations that LAUSD used to fire him if LAUSD wasn’t filing any charges to take him to court?
Let me repeat that. Rafe Esquith is not being dragged into court by LAUSD. He is taking them to court to challenge to allegations.
“The school district declined comment. Spokeswomen said district officials hadn’t reviewed the lawsuit and couldn’t comment on the firing because it is a confidential personnel matter. One spokeswoman pointed to a report about the firing, quoting anonymous district sources, in Thursday’s Los Angeles Times. That report said the board acted on the recommendation of senior administrators.”
This lawsuit is not about Rafe’s guilt. It is about LAUSD being guilty. How can Rafe be found guilty of anything when it is LAUSD that is on trail, not him?
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“Esquith says that while he is not perfect, he is innocent of sexual or financial wrongdoing. He says he personally paid for The Hobart Shakespeareans’ productions and travel costs, including college visits and an annual trip to the Oregon Shakespeare Festival.”
I urge you to READ the CNN report:
http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/15/us/los-angeles-teacher-class-action-lawsuit-rafe-esquith/
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I believe the e-mails are solid. But those e-mails to former students who didn’t seem to view them as a problem and feel threatened. Now, I know that doesn’t make it right, but it certainly does give me pause when I am going to go on a rampage and assume this guy is a serial sexual abuser. What I read was a juvenile exchange that was embarrassing for an adult to have. “How is your new school…any cute guys?” “I want you to be happy and have lots of guys and beer and drugs and all the things that make high school great”.
A few were over the top in their sexual innuendo, but I am assuming these were the worst that were found, and most were like the ones above. Stupid. Juvenile. Wrong. But in context to the recipient, perhaps not as offensive as it seems. Oddly, the investigators did not seem to talk to the recipients. Why not? Did they provide exculpatory evidence that they preferred not to include? Did they just refuse? Are they embarrassed because they’d have to recount the far worse sexual abuse that was done to them by Rafe and they don’t want anyone to know? I think we are all supposed to assume the 3rd reason is the case, and I am suspicious of investigations that want to imply something while suspiciously neglecting to interview the obvious subjects.
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I realize that you’re not actually calling anyone here either a fascist or a communist, but only saying that people who are easily manipulated by propaganda are the darlings of such people. However, it would likely be a good idea to state explicitly that you don’t mean to suggest that Dienne is either a fascist or a communist. And frankly, there are lots of “democratic, freedom-loving Americans” who like people that can easily be led by propaganda.
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“A few were over the top in their sexual innuendo….”
“You do not understand men and their wants and desires. You are their dream come true.”
“You need to do things a LOT to get good, don’t you agree?” [Girl replies, “I don’t know, I haven’t had any experience.”] “I know, but soon you will begin and I do admire your work ethic. Once you begin practicing, you will want to practice every day and every night!!!!” [Girl replies “Oh my…that’s so disturbing”] (And, yes, he’s specifically talking about sex because later in that same exchange (which seems to make her very uncomfortable) he says “How do you think you got here?”)
“You are the greatest girl on the planet and the hottest chick too!”
That’s just the beginning, plenty more where that came from. Please defend that as just “juvenile” or “joking around” or whatever. Just a harmless misunderstanding that you wouldn’t mind your 14 year old daughter getting in an email from a former teacher. Right.
*Shudders*
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Hey, the girls didn’t seem to mind, at least that’s what Mark Geragos said, so no harm, no foul.
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Dienne…you still say “read the emails”while so many of us would prefer you say “read the alleged emails”…ALLEGED is the operant word you insist on leaving out. You are a lawyer…you know this stuff.
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Setting aside the argument of alleged/factual, as Dienne attempts to do, as a teacher I am struggling to comprehend how everyone is so willing to excuse these e-mails? This is not a slight mistake of judgment or “grey area.” This is wrong, without exception.
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FLERP! and Dienne, here is why your arguments are suspect to me:
If you read the link that FLERP! provided, much of the time was recounted telling a story of 11 year old girls who claim that Rafe sexually abused them. Not e-mails. Direct, in person sexual abuse of young girls. And neither of you even seems to care about the very worst charges. Why?
Why wouldn’t that bother you far more than the e-mails? It certainly should because it is much worse. Is it because you don’t believe the charges? But then why would they be reported in such graphic detail. There is far more graphic detail about those incidents during his regular sleepovers of 11 year old girls and far more detail about the incident where Rafe threw cigarettes at a girl than there is ANY reporting whatsoever to hear from those girls who had the e-mail exchanges. I agree that some were over the top, but I would also like to hear what the girls and their parents think since they have a much fuller picture than we do. Where are they? How is it that not a single one was interviewed? What kind of investigation spends so much time reporting on an incident neither of you seem to care much about and doesn’t spend a moment interviewing recipients of these e-mails to see if there were actually in-person moments when these girls felt uncomfortable.
When I see investigators purposely avoiding looking further into incidents that deserve investigation, I know there is something off about the investigation. That doesn’t mean that Rafe isn’t guilty, but it certainly points to these e-mails being a smoking gun that doesn’t lead very far. Thus the additional “evidence” of 11 year olds being abused that doesn’t seem to cause you any outrage. If that is true, I am far more outraged. In fact, I find it odd than any investigator wouldn’t turn over heaven and earth to find out if those facts were true. Not lack any curiosity to find out. The same lack of curiosity those investigators have about whether the recipients of these e-mails felt. And no real investigator would ignore that if they believed it was real.
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Ellen – I have stipulated many times that the emails might not be authentic, that LAUSD might definitely stoop to forging or planting such emails. But I’ve also pointed out that not even Esquith or Geragos are making that claim. Geragos has pretty much admitted Esquith wrote them, just that they were “taken out of context”.
NYC – I have also stipulated many times that the historical accusations and the he said/she said accusations can be set aside and LAUSD still has enough evidence in just the emails (or “alleged” emails) to terminate Esquith.
As far as why they didn’t talk to the girls involved, I’m not sure. Maybe they did. But in any case, I’m not sure it matters. It’s not the girls’ reactions or thoughts about Esquith’s behavior that make his behavior inappropriate – it’s the behavior itself.
A 14 year old girl getting emails like that from her teacher may cause any number of reactions from her. Girls often mistake attention from older men like that as genuine love. Or they may appreciate his financial contributions and feel that they owe him something or that any objections they may have are just ungrateful. Or maybe they just know that they never would have been able to have some of the experiences he provided, so they shut up about any misgivings. None of that makes it okay on Esquith’s part. I think it’s evident reading some of the few responses from the girls that were included that the girls often felt very uncomfortable by the emails and didn’t know quite how to respond.
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Hi Dienne:
Pls do not misunderstand. I do not label you, but concern of your gullibility in believing all fabricated facts in all ALLEGED emails.
Honestly, to me, a well-known and busy travelling author like Rafe will not have time to write all trivial, childish fabricated emails in LAUSD 32 pages accusation report
BTW, I do not go by the book or definition, BUT by experiences with reality in two dimensions of truth or fault PLUS human conscience dimension, which is, by definition,the complex of ethical and moral principles that controls or inhibits the actions or thoughts of an individual.
In short, Cortine’s dirty goal is obviously to please EVIL master Eli Broad, whereas excellent veteran ANGEL teacher Rafe Esquith is obviously a seen Angel in the poor district. Yes, I absolutely believe in Rafe until proven guilty ONLY REGARDING his teaching records
Again, today we recognize and accept all minor ethical and moral principles in society that billionaire can have many YOUNG girlfriends, and boyfriends if they want. For instance, Hugh Hefner, or Rolling Stone band members… as long as young girls/boys want to exchange their youth and beauty for their convenient money, fame, and privilege within a short period of time.
I hope that you accept that fact of life. Therefore, Rafe personal life is his own choice WITHOUT ANY AFFECT to his professional life.
LAUSD is completely criminal in harassing and in divulging citizens’ personal and PRIVATE emails to my viewpoint. Bedroom’s matter belongs to individual taste as long as individual completes his/her responsibility in society without harming or stressing mentally and physically to others. May.
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Hmm, while you make many good points, you do recognize that there are professional and legal issues when it comes to “fraternization,” let alone sexual relationships between teachers and K-12 students. I’m not saying that I believe (or disbelieve) that Esquith crossed any legal or professional lines at this point. He may have, as the lynch mob mentality already “knows” as fact and is ready to act upon given the opportunity, but like you, I don’t accept that anything has been proved. And as many have pointed out, as things currently stand, we might never have a solid basis to judge since no charges are pending against Rafe thus far: just lots of allegations the merit of which is not established, at least not in the minds of people who prefer something more solid than what a notoriously dishonest and corrupt school district leaks to the media when it’s under threat.
That said, there’s no way that teachers can date, let alone have sexual relations with students in K-12. I’m well aware that it happens, but when it does and such things come out, the teacher in question is inevitably fired or forced to resign, and if the student is underage, there will generally be criminal charges as well.
When I was a student teacher in 1972, we discussed in seminar the issue of fraternizing with students. I was the only one in the group who was adamant that sex with K-12 students while they were underage or even simply students where one taught was a line that could not be breached. Some waffled a bit, others couldn’t see a problem if the student was 17 or 18 and particularly if parents knew and approved. I thought then and think now 43 years later that it simply violates fundamental ethical principles.
So for some of the self-appointed judges, etc., here who question my views on sexual fraternization between K-12 students and teachers, I hope that was clear. The next person who suggests that I hold different views because I’m not prepared to condemn someone based on leaked “evidence” can clean my cat boxes orally (we have 5 cats).
I do think that it’s vital to maintain a presumption of innocence, however, and I’m speaking in terms of how we respond to both trials and situations like this one with Esquith in which thus far there seems like he will not be on trial (at least not as things stand). That alone raises a lot of interesting questions about the district and individuals within it, but that, too is speculation grounded upon more speculation.
And there is, of course, the larger political question of Broad and others trying to destroy public education by any means necessary. Smearing a renowned teacher who went outside the routines of dull teaching would be a particularly good feather in the cap of the anti-public-school crowd. That makes it particularly vital to retain reasonable skepticism. Instead, we see some who already “know” with absolute certainty what went on and have found Esquith guilty, a “perv,” and so forth. Such people are, in my view, very dangerous. They really are the sort who tend to form lynch mobs and are fine with rushing to judgment. They are manipulated easily by the media, which is to say by those who own the media. They are quick to condemn, slow to forgive, and virtually never apologize. And when the situation involves charges of child sexual abuse or misconduct, no amount of exoneration will ever suffice to undo the damage such people happily engender.
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m4potw – with all due respect, the “he didn’t have time” defense is about the lamest I’ve seen yet. Please.
Anyway, I’ve already conceded – about a million times now I think – that it’s possible that the emails were forged/planted. But not even Esquith or Geragos is making that claim – they have pretty much admitted Esquith wrote the emails. Saying they were “taken out of context” is an admission that he wrote them.
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Dienne says, “do you think they’d (LAUSD) be stupid enough to say they have emails if they don’t?” BWA HA HA! She obviously knows nothing about how the district ‘does business’ nor she understand that Esquith’s attorney would be an idiot to dispute the evidence in the press, rather than wait for the trial.
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True. A forensic inspection of the computers is going to be necessary. False information can certainly be planted. However, Geragos is just walking/talking like a lawyer, and tossing the burden back to LAUSD. Certainly, if claims were made, LAUSD would have had to follow them through, and if they did not, they are culpable. Geragos is just warning LAUSD to tread cautiously lest it get caught in its own web (of lies).
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“Esquith’s attorney would be an idiot to dispute the evidence in the press, rather than wait for the trial.”
I’ve worked in law firms for nearly 20 year now. I know how lawyers handle the media. When they have a good case to make, they play it in the media. It may not be right, but that’s what they do. The fact that Geragos isn’t trying to say there are no emails or that Esquith didn’t write them says a lot. In fact, Geragos pretty much admitted Esquith did write them, but said only that they were taken “out of context”. How “your bottom is going to be so sore” is “out of context” is beyond me.
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You’ve done a heroic job on this stuff today, Dienne.
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“When they have a good case to make, they play it in the media…”
Do you think the case that Rafe sexually abused 11 year old girls whose parents allowed them to sleep over without supervision when he was a 22 year old to be “a good case”?
No one is bothered by that and I think that’s odd. Don’t you believe it? Because it MUST be a good case since they are playing it in the media.
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NYC – you’re edging perilously close to blame the victim territory. First, let me stipulate that I have no idea what might have happened 40 years ago or how reliable those claims are (and as I’ve said several times, the case for termination of Esquith does not rely on those charges). But if he did molest kids, that’s on him, not on their parents. Their parents might have been negligent or bad parents or just naive/blind, but that does not make it okay for Esquith to have taken advantage of them (if, in fact he did, which, again, I don’t know).
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Dienne, I am not blaming the parents.
I am blaming the LAUSD for doing a substandard investigation of what should be a serious charge. And I am mystified as to why they would not try to figure out when part of a story seems off.
It’s like when Rolling Stone Magazine did a story about fraternity rapes at the University of Virginia. It turned out that the victim’s claims about the time and place of her attack would have meant they occurred in the middle of a party in a place where many people were gathered. Once it turned out that small part of her story could not have happened, people were skeptical about the rest. Now, I actually believe part of her story likely is true, but it doesn’t seem to be exactly as she related it to Rolling Stone Magazine. So the Magazine and the reporter got excoriated for doing such shoddy work and not following up to check a few facts. That old accusation seems similar, where a story that seems unlikely to have taken place the way described by the victim is just accepted without question. Do you think that’s okay? Would you have defended the Rolling Stone reporter because even if the facts weren’t what was said, since you still believe something took place then it’s okay?
Or perhaps it is possible that some LA parents were regularly sending off their 10 or 11 year old daughters for sleepovers alone at a 22 year old single man’s apartment. But if I was an investigator and that was part of the accusation, I would certainly want to make sure that sleepovers like that really did happen. Just like I’d expect the Rolling Stone reporter not to print an accusation if the time and place of it could not have been as described. I can still believe that a woman was victimized, but not in the manner described. And reprinting it as is without checking a few basic facts does the victim more harm than good in the long run. Do some real investigating first.
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i found it interesting that Geragos brought up the.issue of LAUSD being a mandated reporter. Will Esquith be taking a backseat to a “what did they know legally and when did they know it and who knew” follow up. Is Children’s Services involved? Curiouser and curiouser.
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Every teacher is a legally mandated reporter, as is I believe every school staff member…and every pediatrician, and social worker.
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The impulse of teachers to protect other teachers runs parallel to that of a police officer trying to cover up for another officer. While understandable, these impulses allow existing power structures to protect their own while victims, in this case children, are left to suffer.
I write this as a teacher who cringes at every news story that involves a teacher making a poor decision or committing a crime, just as I imagine police officers do when they read about Chicago, Baltimore, etc. And undoubtedly innocent teachers and officers have been accused and condemned–to the point that they may lose credibility and/or their job.
Yet a refusal to believe the victim is what props up sexual assault on university campuses, violence against minorities by law enforcement, and criminal behavior by teachers against children. I have a lost a lot of respect for Diane Ravitch [who I support and have much respect for] for her use of this blog and her own credibility to advocate for this cause.
And all of us should check our impulses to defend our own, and consider the consequences of acting upon them without deeper thought.
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Diane Ravitch isn’t “advocating for this cause”. Unless you mean she is advocating for a full investigation and not condemning a man because it seems he made inappropriate jokes about spanking two times during an e-mail exchanges that may have run into the hundreds over the course of a year or more. Which came to light NOT because the students — who had graduated from the elementary school where he taught 3 years before this e-mail correspondence — made any complaint. But because investigators dug through years and years of correspondence looking for something that could be used to show he abused his students. And yet no students are actually claiming to be abused. Except the one who said he threw a cigarette pack at her when he found out she was smoking. Did the investigators ask HER about Rafe using sexual language or anything else? She obviously felt wronged by Rafe, but she didn’t seem to know of any.
I am inclined to believe victims of sexual assault, but the only “victim” in this who has asked to be believed is the one who said her parents sent her on sleepovers at Rafe’s home 35 years earlier when she was 10 or 11 where Rafe abused her. I certainly would expect to hear from the victim of these e-mails, but the investigators didn’t bother to talk to them. Weird. And anyone who attacks Diane Ravitch because she questions the oddities in this report makes me wonder why they would not want a full and complete accounting.
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I agree that Ravitch has been explicitly advocating for a full investigation, but the tone of her posts–and therefore her blog–has been in support of his position, in the same way that people tell black protestors to “wait until they have all the facts” or sexual assault victims that they need “100% proof” before they ruin the life of an accused rapist.
All this aside, I want to return to my initial point: my condemnation is not meant to be of Esquith, as I am distanced from the case and without all the facts. My frustration reading through these comments has been that most individuals are actively excusing the content of those e-mails, questioning accusations of abuse, etc.
Returning to a point I made in comments below, the highest priority of a teacher is to make sure that students feel safe and supported. A teacher is in a position of power, and we know that far too often in history this power has been channeled to abuse children, just as it has with law enforcement to take innocent lives of minorities.
Our impulse should be to examine the power structure first and apply higher scrutiny to those in power, who indeed have a higher responsibility. That is what I am asking for.
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And please list exactly those who have been “actively excusing the content of those e-mails.” I believe there has been extensive questioning of provenance and authenticity. Last I checked, that’s not “excusing” in any sense of the word.
As for “questioning accusations of abuse,” yes, I’m certainly doing that. Until there are documented accusations of abuse, not hearsay and leaked innuendo, I have to question whether any abuse took place. Wouldn’t you want people to question accusations made towards you of ANYTHING? Or are some alleged crimes automatically true? Please note that at this point, my skepticism stems from the reputation of the accuser: LAUSD. There’s a track record of incompetence, vengefulness, corruption, misconduct, harassment, etc., at the highest levels of this entity. Their reputation precedes them and hence whatever they say is subject to careful analysis and scrutiny. To fail to do so, especially when they have such a clear-cut vested interest in covering an individual in muck and scandal, is to be gullible. It’s to allow the possible railroading of an honored professional without an open, objective investigation. It is to participate in trial by media leaks. Just what the Broadies want.
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Examples of comments that look past, excuse, or justify his e-mails:
“Dienne, he may be a creep or he may interact with former students in a completely theatrical over the top manner in discussing their looks and lives.”
“A few were over the top in their sexual innuendo, but I am assuming these were the worst that were found, and most were like the ones above.”
“Or perhaps it is possible that some LA parents were regularly sending off their 10 or 11 year old daughters for sleepovers alone at a 22 year old single man’s apartment.”
“Rafe Esquith’s teaching practices are of little or no importance to me. We have to find a way around the propaganda.”
“Don’t get involved teachers. Don’t relate to your students on a personal level. Don’t hug them, touch them, or do anything outside of the school day.”
“Exposing these kids to Shakespeare was worse than all his emails combined! I’m so glad Shakespeare didn’t have an email account!”
“The real confusion is how the district got personal emails of Esquith? Is that even legal?”
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Not a single quotation you offered is either a justification or approbation of anything. It’s called asking questions, making observations, raising reasonable doubt, etc.
Find me something that in essence says, “It’s fine if [please note the crucial word “if” since not a single person here has direct knowledge of guilt or innocence of Mr. Esquith] Rafe Esquith _________________ [fill in any current or future accusation, fantasy, etc.].
Thus far, no one has done that. If you think anything you cited is equivalent to that, you’re deeply deluded.
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I wrote some of the comments you think are “excusing” this.
I am not “excusing it.” But I don’t like it when people exaggerate and use lies and innuendo to make their case because it makes me doubt their agenda. It’s similar to how we rushed to war in Iraq because instead of actually offering up the evidence of the worst that Saddam Hussein did, the administration felt it was fine to exaggerate and imply all sorts of nuclear weapons that weren’t there. If you felt that dishonesty was justified because Saddam was a bad man, then you probably think it is justified to attack Rafe as a sexual abuser of the 5th grade students he taught because he did have a handful of inappropriate email exchanges and seemed to be on far too friendly terms with a few former female students 3 years after they left the school where he taught, while they were still young teens. But it’s weird to express outrage from a report that INTENTIONALLY leaves out any actual response from the 3 teenagers who actually received these e-mails or their parents. None of you seem to care about that because you believe that the e-mails alone are bad enough, just like you supported going to war against Hussein because you felt that what he did alone was enough to warrant his removal, so the dishonesty of the reports about his having WMD aren’t worth mentioning — we should just let it go and say “a bad guy got removed and that’s all that matters. The higher purpose is to get rid of a man you are certain is a serial predator who is evil, so a few misleading untruths in service of that goal should never be mentioned or you “support Saddam”. Or “want the terrorists to win”.
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People not willing to jail, convict, or execute Mr. Esquith quite yet must all be closet child molesters and “pervs,” don’t you think, NYCpsp? I know that only callous monsters could possible care whether there is any merit to charges of misconduct before throwing someone in jail and throwing away the key (even hypothetically). Who cares about justice? Who cares about the track record of the accusers? Who cares about rule of law, rules of evidence?
Even though I haven’t once talked about, hinted at, or mentioned the issue of this guy’s JOB and the district’s decision to fire him, I’ve been told repeatedly that that is in fact what I’m talking about. It’s fascinating to be told that I only think I’m talking about something else, even when I never mention the issue I’m alleged to be discussing. Not only am I a perv-lover/defender/excuser, but I am possessed by aliens. Or evil spirits.
Justice may be blind, but on this blog, we have commenters who’d just as soon have her dead so as to not get in the way of their Old Testament stoning parties, lynch mobs, and kangaroo courts.
The Broads, the Kochs, et al., must be glowing with Christmas joy.
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Interesting analogies, NYCpsp, and not too far off. Makes me want to go on record as having rooted constantly for the terrorists to win after we invaded Iraq and I questioned our basis for going in. And of course, not having a protective bone in my body, I root for child molesters all the time, particularly if they are teachers, because having been a teacher and still working in education, why would I want to see any child molester who happens to have a teaching or administrative credential tried and, if convicted, punished for something as trivial as sexual abuse, molesting, and the like?
So the next person who weighs in here suggesting, stating, hinting, insinuating, or otherwise implying that I or any other person not joining the lynch mob is defending sexual abuse (because the accused is a teacher), you can quote me from the previous paragraph. It’s completely serious. Maybe you can get another lynching party together for me when you’re done with Esquith. Viva Osama bin Laden, too!
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I think the bottom line for people who refuse to criticize a very misleading “investigation” is that they don’t care if there are lots of misleading and questionable facts included to rile up the public and imply Rafe regularly sexually abused his students. Over a course of a decade or so there were indeed some inappropriate e-mail exchanges this teacher had with 2 or 3 former students where words like “hottie”, “sex”, “spankings” used in a “dirty” way were used. It was wrong. Maybe he should be forever barred from any contact with children or teens.
But if the people doing this investigation really believed that, they would have spent far more time investigating THOSE incidents. Instead, they threw in all sorts of innuendos — just like the Bush/Cheney administration did — because the investigators themselves seemed not to think the e-mail charges alone would rile people up enough, and — most shockingly — displayed in deplorable LACK of curiosity as to what the recipients themselves said and whether they have ever — in person — felt any additional abuse. I don’t know of any real investigation that would give short shrift to what people like Dienne believe is the “terrible” thing he did and give a lot of attention to recounting in great detail reports from 35 years ago that they did not seem to make any attempt to verify.
That’s exactly what the Bush/Cheney administration did. Don’t verify any reports that make Saddam look like he had WMD. But include them because you are fearful that the “bad” things you know he did by themselves won’t be enough to convince the public this person is about to launch an attack to destroy America.
Did LAUSD think that the “bad” e-mails alone weren’t enough to convince the public that this man is a serial sexual abuser who needs to go? Is that why they didn’t even follow up with the “victims” of those e-mails? What if Rafe also abused them in person — apparently that’s not important to know? But it’s important to recount what someone says happened 35 years ago?
Those of you who so critical of anyone questioning this investigation are encouraging more of this kind of “let’s not get the whole story to the public”. It is a dangerous game that the fascists in this country are hoping we will support for the higher goal that the fascists know is a good thing. HONESTY. If you can’t be honest about what you are doing, then maybe what you are doing is not as admirable as you think.
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Rafe Esquith’s teaching practices are of little or no importance to me. We have to find a way around the propaganda. Ellen Lubic said it best earlier today in an earlier post: …this case is about far reaching issues into how LAUSD has set up procedures to defame by unproven allegations against teachers, a system designed to put them in teacher jail and/or fire them….and these teachers are almost always fired just as their lifetime benefits are about to vest. This is the crux of the Class Action lawsuit.
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LeftCoastTeacher: Hear, hear!
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So here is my take. Unless I’m recollecting incorrectly, LAUSD’s leaked “facts” to the rag, um, newspaper owned by Broad, who has lots of skin in the game, that included some 30 or 40 years ago a boy, or was it 2 boys, or the same boy (?) who said R.E. pushed him, wasn’t nice to him at summer camp or some such, and the same (or another?) boy who said R.E. babysat him and told him to fondle himself (paraphrasing here) and/or put his hand in the boy’s crotch……but the emails, which may (or may not) be fabricated, which R.E.’s attorneys state could not have been taken from R.E.’s assigned school computer, b/c he never used said computer, are all about females. Females, not males. Don’t pedophiles usually stick with one gender and never change their tactics? Why some 30 years later is it girls, not boys? Think on that one.
Personally, I’m in the mindset of those who feel that the court of public shaming via tawdry tidbits published in Broad’s favorite rag is just that — an attempt to sway everyone into believing the trash. Did he do it? I don’t know, but history tells me that LAUSD is dirty dirty dirty and will stop at nothing to destroy people. If R.E. went away quietly, they’d have no reason to trash him in the newspaper. CORTINES is a pig. That Cortines would have anything to say, and any finger to point, at anyone, is laughable. How Cortines still has a job working in the school district is unconscionable.
Doesn’t it just smell to high heaven how this “investigation” has been going?
I’ll follow the story and judge the evidence, or lack there of, for myself. Eventually, we’ll all know the truth.
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Amen.
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Next thing you know, LAUSD will have PICTURES to post, because everyone knows there is no such thing as photoshop. Emails can be manipulated, created, fabricated. Prove that they were, and voila. If they were not, then there are more serious issues here, like…what took them so long to take action? Knowing who we’re dealing with, however, speaks volumes as to the lengths LAUSD will go. We shall see folks.
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Don’t get involved teachers. Don’t relate to your students on a personal level. Don’t hug them, touch them, or do anything outside of the school day. Don’t set up a foundation to expose them to Art and don’t take them on any field trips. Don’t give them money if they need it for things like for music lessons and don’t drive them there. Don’t be hip, keep in touch, and joke with them when they are teenagers. Show up 20 minutes before the instructional day, teach what they want you to teach whatever that may be, and go home 10 minutes after the bell. I could be mistaken, but I think that’s the moral of this story.
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You are using 1000’s of great examples of teachers getting involved to excuse this behavior, which is reprehensible if true. I don’t get it.
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Art Smart.. I don’t think that is the “moral” at all. There IS an area, which the majority of us inhabit, between sending clearly inappropriate emails to our students and/or becoming oddly involved in their personal lives and running out the door once the last bell rings. We are adults working with kids, and have an obligation to know where to draw the line in our comments and our relationships with our students. This guy did not.
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You’re both right. But you didn’t mention the worst thing that Rafe did. He exposed these young minds to Shakespeare! Have you ever read his plays?! They’re filled with an obscene amount of sex and violence. “Out, out, vile jelly!” (The eye gouging scene from “King Lear”) Really disgusting stuff! Obviously the work of a sick mind. Romeo and Juliet is about teenagers having coitus! Juliet is only 13 for goodness sake! Sick, sick, sick! Exposing these kids to Shakespeare was worse than all his emails combined! I’m so glad Shakespeare didn’t have an email account!
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That Shakespeare! What a monster! Underaged and unmarried and adulterous sex all over the joint. Miscegenation! Kids murdered at the behest of relatives! Relatives murdered by other relatives! Antisemitism! Racism! Assassinations! Did I mention the sex?
And my school district was widely renowned in the ’60s for the prodigious amount of Shakespeare they assigned to us innocent children. No wonder I’m not ready to see Rafe Esquith’s head on a pike quite yet.
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I teach high school English, including Shakespeare and the King Lear scene you mentioned. Students have performed it in class with fake eyeballs, even. Yet that is not the point.
What I cannot grasp, reading the comments on this page, is how so many people cannot look at these e-mails [if true] as disgustingly inappropriate, and a gross abuse of the power a teacher is granted.
Just because Esquith has done many amazing things does not cancel out these actions, which are morally wrong. Victims of abuse can suffer psychologically in ways we cannot even fathom, and it seems as if few people on this page are considering that the priority ought to be creating an environment in which kids are safe and supported. That is our first and foremost responsibility as teachers. Period.
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Marcus…why would you jump in and without knowing anything about LAUSD, the history of their teacher jailing and creating false and contrived testimony, nor evidently much about Rafe Esquith?
You, a teacher, are willing to jump to the conclusion of his guilt based om what real factual, untainted, evidence?. How sad to see teachers, supposedly well educated, not have any knowledge of, nor sense of, why we have a court system. You join with others here who prefer ‘kangaroo courts’ and instant justice. Off with their heads, including insulting Diane Ravitch who makes this conversation possible….this is like ISIS behavior or that of the Salem Witch Hunts.
I will not speculate on whether Rafe wrote any of this thin material…but FYI, I DID go to law school, and I come from a family of lawyers including my son, my brother, two of my nieces, and half of my cousins…and we all learned early in our legal education not to jump to conclusions.
I feel sad that Dienne did not respond to my question asking if she is a lawyer, and if not, I feel very sad that has led us to believe for the last few years that she was Bar certified as working in law offices as a lawyer for 20 years. Being some sort of assistant does not equate to a bona fide attorney with years of legal training…and also does not equate to having the experience to.second guess Mark Geragos and his partners. It shows sheer arrogance and worse.
I expected far better from writers here whom I have always respected, but who hurtled to conclusions the last two days based not on proof but on speculation and carefully chosen snippets of contrived titillating language written by a lackey of a newspaper controlled by the charter/privatizers…
I do thank Ken Watanbe, Michael Goldberg with the silly icon who supported my position with such firm alacrity, my very respected colleague and fellow California educator Lloyd, NY Parent. retired teacher, artseducator, 2old2teach, and of course to Suzie Lee who had it all happen to her….and to all the other learned commentators here who do understand how the American judicial system works and believe in it, and in withholding judgment until the facts are presented in a court of law….and who understand how devious the small minds at LAUSD (who are under the thumb of Eli Broad), can be You keep me hanging in.
And thank you Diane for putting all these cards on your table for us to hash out.
BTW…I was most impressed to read in this mishmash of charges that Rafe has inner city students he helped with creative and consistent good teaching, win scholarships to schools such as Harvard-Westlake, the most prestigious and rigorous prep school in the nation, and to Willows, a private school in LA that has about 1600 applicants for the few openings. Also for those who went to fine universitys and medical schools. That counts for much more than PERHAPS using poor judgment and calling a young woman a ‘hottie’.
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Ellen, what’s “silly” about my icon? That’s my Simpsonized self.
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Ellen – never once on this site have I ever claimed to be a lawyer. I have worked with lawyers for nearly 20 years and one learns a lot working with them on a daily basis. But I am not – and have never claimed to be – licensed to practice in any state.
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I also, incidentally, have a master’s in forensic psychology which involved a great deal of study of how the legal systems – civil and criminal – work. Much of the confusion on these threads stem from a misunderstanding of the differences among an administrative proceeding for termination such as LAUSD initiated against Esquith, a civil suit such as Esquith filed against LAUSD and a criminal suit which no one has filed against anyone. Standards applicable to criminal proceedings are irrelevant here.
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Sounds like a non-attorney to me. And I am well aware of differences between standards of evidence required for verdicts in civil versus criminal cases. But the “trial” here is being held in the court of public opinion on criminal charges fantasized as to having been brought against Esquith. And those who would string him up appear to have no concerns about standards, evidence, or actual charges.
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Ellen-
My position is simply that if these e-mails are true, then a line was crossed that is indefensible. I am not wading into the proceedings or condemning without proof; rather, I am questioning why so many commentators are doing whatever they can to excuse the content of this behavior or downplay the accusations of sexual abuse.
There is no excuse for the content of those e-mails. It doesn’t matter if an individual has an extraordinary track record of accomplishment, which Esquith does.
We criticize police officers for “defending their own” because of excellent track records and professional affiliation. We criticize universities for downplaying sexual assault and quieting victims to preserve their reputations. As teachers, therefore, we should criticize teachers who abuse their power to participate in inappropriate relations with students.
I came to this blog because I love how much Ravitch supports the teaching profession, and how actively she advocates for its preservation and elevation. The tone of her blog posts, exacerbated by the comments attached to them, is disappointingly a departure from this cause. I love the teaching profession, and I believe it is incumbent upon all of us to hold each other to standards of professionalism and to protect children, first and foremost. That does not seem to be the priority on this comment thread.
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“And I am well aware of differences between standards of evidence required for verdicts in civil versus criminal cases.”
Well apparently not because you’re the one who keeps saying innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, which is not applicable here.
The sole issue on the table is whether or not Esquith was rightfully terminated. No one has asserted any criminal culpability. Based on the linked documents, assuming the alleged emails are genuine and validly written by Esquith, yes he was rightfully terminated. I don’t see how anyone can argue that. If the emails were forged or planted or don’t really exist at all, then he has a case, but even Esquith and his lawyer are not making that case. There is no excusing those emails. Again, if they are genuine and valid, LAUSD was right to terminate him as a teacher – they don’t have to prove criminal culpability in order to fire him. And I don’t have to prove – or even assert – criminal culpability to recognize that.
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No, Dienne, you’re wrong again (and on an unstoppable roll on this issue). There’s no court here. But there is an accusation by some of the readers of this blog that Mr. Esquith is guilty of criminal acts. He’s been called a perv and the like. Very nice stuff. I’m arguing innocence of criminal wrongdoing in THIS court. I have no standing anywhere else. Either do you or anyone here as far as I can see. There’s no trial in which Mr. Esquith is being accused or defended. Just a bunch of know-it-alls with nooses. People who can’t understand why anyone would “defend” Esquith’s actions. And that last sentence is key to this whole bloody debate: what actions? Where is there evidence that WE have that he did anything wrong? Oh, the emails. . . What emails? Has anyone here seen these emails and had the full provenance of them available to take to a computer security/forensics expert to evaluate their validity? Oh, well, no, not one of the hangmen or hangwomen has in fact seen such evidence or had it validated or the opposite.
So, for the last time to you, Dienne: yes, innocent until proven guilty of criminal acts in THIS courtroom, the one where you and the rest of the prosecutors and executioners are mispracticing your fraudulent little legal games. Oh, I forgot: you’ve worked with lawyers. Hey, I worked for some highly prestigious law firms in NYC, on Wall Street, the last being the renowned Brown & Wood (check it out: their offices and some of their personnel were destroyed on 9/11, but luckily for me, I’d left their employ in 1986). I won’t say in what capacity I worked their, but it wasn’t janitorial and I worked closely every day with contracts and a host of other legal documents. That practically makes me a supreme court justice, right?
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I don’t understand why this information was made public. Doesn’t the man have rights? Usually the police say a subject is under investigation and don’t reveal details. Shouldn’t a school district follow that example?
One of the professional hockey players from Buffalo was put through hell and accused of all sorts of sleaziness, including rape, and all but convicted in the media. Yet, the police ended up dropping the entire case.
I reserve judgement until I hear all of the information, even though what was printed makes him appear guilty.
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The case was in Buffalo, but the player is on the Chicago Black Hawks. There’s the Duke lacrosse team case in which ultimately an entire group of young men who were “convicted’ in the court of the Internet and countless campus “experts” (none of whom was, in fact, an expert, but nearly every one of whom was of the “believe the accusers” school of modern American jurisprudence in which certain crimes allow things like due process to be suspended so that anyone who is ever accused of sexual harassment, misconduct, rape, molestation, or even saying the wrong thing to the wrong person loses his/her constitutional rights, is guilty until proven innocent, and even then is likely guilty regardless of any and all exculpatory evidence) were exonerated, but there are still folks at Duke and elsewhere who wish they’d all been expelled, imprisoned, possibly castrated (that’s a popular one in kangaroo courts and Internet forums when any sort of sexual misconduct charges are brought against a man).
Is the Esquith case similar? Who here really knows? But rather than err on the side of restraint and caution, seems like those whose sensibilities are triggered by such cases get a special privilege to (in their minds if not in reality) return to the days of trial by ordeal, trial by fire, and the like. English common law? What an inconvenience. Let’s string him up (anyone got any string?)
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The Duke case is a good one to use.
One of those lacrosse players wrote despicable things about abusing women in an e-mail to a friend. They were sickening in their description of what he was going to do to a woman.
According to people on here, it is IRRELEVANT that this student may not have raped the woman who claimed he did. He wrote despicable things in an e-mail and he should have been drummed out of the school. The fact that Duke University didn’t expel him immediately for those kinds of writings — in fact, didn’t expel the entire Lacrosse team for what they did do that was wrong — makes Duke University an institution that SUPPORTS abuse of women. According to Marcus Luther. Because there is evidence among all those accusations that the lacrosse players were doing things that they should not have been doing. So what if it wasn’t rape — that should not mean they aren’t severely punished and anyone who criticizes the report that included the rape charges must not speak up. It does’t matter if they raped anyone — they did reprehensible things that were mentioned in the report that are true, so why should anyone dare to question a report that calls them rapists.
There are people who believe that it doesn’t matter whether the charges of the lacrosse team raping a woman are true because we do know that those men behaved in truly reprehensible manner that was not acceptable by any decent standards. So if you dare to question a report that makes them out to be rapists, you are wrong and supporting the idea that men should be able to abuse and degrade woman.
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The impulse of teachers to protect other teachers runs parallel to that of a police officer trying to cover up for another officer. While understandable, these impulses allow existing power structures to protect their own while victims, in this case children, are left to suffer.
I write this as a teacher who cringes at every news story that involves a teacher making a poor decision or committing a crime, just as I imagine police officers do when they read about Chicago, Baltimore, etc. And undoubtedly innocent teachers and officers have been accused and condemned–to the point that they may lose credibility and/or their job.
Yet a refusal to believe the victim is what props up sexual assault on university campuses, violence against minorities by law enforcement, and criminal behavior by teachers against children. I have a lost a lot of respect for Diane Ravitch for using her credibility and resources to support this case.
[I’m not sure why my comments aren’t being posted; I don’t feel as if these are unreasonable points to make, and I didn’t know this blog handpicked its comments..]
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What victim(s), Marcus? Right now, the only clear victims are truth and justice.
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I concede that I do not know the full details of this case, yet my operating assumption is that those e-mails were sent by Esquith and that he does not dispute that point. Is that correct?
Also, I want to apologize for the multiple posts–I did not mean to flood the forum. This was my first time posting, and I wasn’t sure how long it took to post–and I was eager to jump in.
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Innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. No charges. No legal evidence submitted in a court of law and accepted by a judge after challenges by defense attorneys.
But you’re up in arms.
Definitely the sort of guy I’d want as my wingman in a pinch. Not.
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There is no mention of victims with regards to those e-mails that used the words “hottie”, spanking, and bottom. We don’t know how the “victims” feel because apparently LAUSD didn’t feel it was necessary to speak with them. I mean, if you heard that a teacher was constantly bombarding a teenager with offensive e-mails, the last thing you’d want to do is actually hear from the “victim”, right?
People like FLERP! seem ready to throw this man in jail without ever being curious about what the recipients of these e-mails thought. I find it ironic that certain pro-charter folks on here are demanding this person be fired, and attacking people who are just asking for more investigation before making judgement. Meanwhile, if it happens in a charter school, their response is to demand that we do NOT investigate because there isn’t yet convincing evidence that anything happened and until we know for sure that something happened we should not investigate. I just wish their VERY selective outrage on behalf of teenagers who haven’t even accused this teacher of doing anything wrong could also be directed to demand an investigation when 5 year old children and their parents ARE saying that something wrong happened. But then again, I guess a faux concern for the teen being called a “hottie” by a teacher she had 3 years ago in a different school is far more lucrative to them than a REAL concern for a 5 year old being psychologically abused by a principal desperate to get him out of their school.
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MPG – innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt is a criminal standard, not a civil one, much less and employment one. If Esquith is ever charged with a crime, you are right, he deserves that protection. But that level of proof is simply not needed in order to justify termination – otherwise our courts would be absolutely overwhelmed as every HR case would have to go through criminal court. Again, professional misbehavior and bad judgment are different than criminal behavior. If those emails are genuine (and, again, Esquith has made no claim otherwise), then he has demonstrated more than ample professional misbehavior and bad judgment to be terminated.
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Dienne wrote “If those emails are genuine (and, again, Esquith has made no claim otherwise), then he has demonstrated more than ample professional misbehavior and bad judgment to be terminated.”
I don’t think anybody here doubts this. So now the question is (and this is what Diane implied originally) whether trying to make it a much bigger scandal, the admins might have fabricated the molestation charges from 30+ years ago. And the truth at this point is a speculation.
Didn’t the scandal in the movie “Spotlight” start out with uncovering some 40 year old abuses?
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MPG: “But you’re up in arms.”
As I’ve tried to clarify, I have two main stances, neither of which aim to condemn an individual without due process for criminal charges:
1) If the content of these e-mails are true, then Esquith crossed a moral line as an educator and deserves punishment for it.
2) Too many commentators on this post have been actively excusing his alleged behavior and questioning allegations of abuse. This is disappointing and tragic, but not surprising based on the “protect your own” mindset that permeates our culture, including in police forces and on university campuses.
I don’t know what happened. But far too many people here seem to be okay with what he did, and as a teacher that cares deeply about protecting my students. that makes me want to hurl my laptop across the room.
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“I don’t know what happened. But far too many people here seem to be okay with what he did, and as a teacher that cares deeply about protecting my students. that makes me want to hurl my laptop across the room.”
You don’t know what happened yet you claim that others “seem to be okay with what he did.” Except that if we don’t know what happened, the rest is a logical impossibility. You’re apparently confusing questioning accusations with condoning behavior that has yet to be proved. I haven’t read anyone condoning the alleged behavior, just questioning the source and veracity of the accusations. How is that “condoning” anything? Or are we simply supposed to take LAUSD’s word on all of this? Emails leaked selectively and without proof of authenticity to the maw of the cooperative media isn’t exactly damning proof. At least not in my mind.
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I apologize for wording that response poorly; I should have written “okay with what he allegedly did.” Thank you for pointing that out.
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MPG you posted this earlier:
“I’d hate to see an abuser go free, but I’d hate more to see an innocent person’s life destroyed through false charges and/or misconduct by those investigating or prosecuting such charges. And that clearly happens.”
This is the crux of our disagreement, and probably where we won’t be able to move each other.
I hate seeing an innocent person’s life destroyed through false charges, especially when motivated by the corruption and greed that permeates our existing bureaucratic structures. Hate, hate, hate–and have seen it already in my teaching career. That is a tragedy, and we should do everything we can to prevent it.
But I hate more to see an abuser to go free, for victims to be silenced and/or unaffirmed, and for countless future victims to suffer because of it.
My allegiance lies first and foremost with protecting students, whereas yours seems to be with protecting teachers.
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Luckily, Marcus, the law in our country is founded on English legal principles, which lean heavily on the side of preventing wrongful conviction. There was a fabulous episode of the show THE DEFENDERS (with E.G. Marshall and Robert Reed) in which they take on the death penalty and argue that it is better to allow a hundred (I don’t really recall the number) of murderers walk free than to execute a single innocent person.
I saw that at around age 12 or so. It has stuck with me as a basic correct precept of criminal law ever since.
So sorry that you feel prepared to sacrifice innocent people to ensure that revenge is meted out against the guilty. Very Old Testament of you. I may be an atheistic Jew, but I’ll take New Testament justice every time. Let he who is without sin, and all that jazz. Esquith hasn’t been accused of anything, brought to court, faced accusers, been able to challenge evidence, etc. Except in places like this blog, and there he’s only been accused. If you and those like you had your way, he’d be tried, convicted, and executed as well. Or perhaps just executed or at least imprisoned. Wrongful conviction after wrongful conviction gets overturned thanks to DNA and other improved forensic methods. People who’ve spent most of their adult lives in prison for crimes they didn’t commit are released every week. Their lives were destroyed by people like you who would sooner see countless innocent people jailed or put to death rather than let a single guilty person walk free. Shameful, twisted, sickening. Really. I’ve been in court. I’ve had friends and colleagues in court. You don’t want someone like you on a jury you or someone you hold dear has to stand in front of. I thank our system of justice that at least in principle your viewpoint is not dominant and does not hold sway. In practice, still loads of Juror Number 3s out there (TWELVE ANGRY MEN reference).
You sure you’re not really Martin Luther? You sound like a guilt-driven and vengeful man. I’m not going to respond further to you or Dienne on this thread because I’m now at the point where I’m ready to go further over the edge than I already have in this post, and I know Diane won’t approve of some of what I’ve said here. But the righteous have always left a very bad smell in my nostrils and that stench has risen beyond my tolerance here.
By the way, if Mr. Esquith has done wrong, he will pay for it, of that I have little doubt. What troubles me to no end is the knowledge that at this point it won’t matter if he’s guilty of myriad offenses, most of which have not yet come to light, or he’s utterly innocent: people like you have already tried him, found him guilty, and are itching to punish him as thoroughly as possible. For shame. And that goes EVEN if he ultimately proves to be guilty. Because only then is punishment allowed in our legal system. And a damned good thing, too.
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“I don’t think anybody here doubts this.”
Well, I don’t know about that. People have gotten awfully angry at me and others who have said it, so I have to assume that’s because they do, in fact, doubt it.
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Dienne, you are doing exactly what you are alleging those who disagree with you are doing. You said, “People have gotten awfully angry at me and others who have said it, so I have to assume that’s because they do, in fact, doubt it.”
Duh. What I’ve read again and again in this thread by those who disagree with you is that they want to wait for the court case to decide and not rush to judgement before the court case is over.
We are not supposed to judge someone’s guilt or innocence outside of the court and in the media, but of course, it’s done all the time. You and those who stand with you are living proof that only in court are we innocent until proven guilty.
In fact, there are people all across America who were found guilty in the media and by a politically correct mob but found innocent in court. Those would found them guilty, often refuse to accept the verdict of the court and some of these people face the fact that they might get killed by the mob at any time.
For instance, the shooting of Trayvon Martin by George Zimmerman. Many found him guilty before he was found innocent in court and now he has to live each day knowing there are people out there who want to kill him.
As news of the case spread, thousands of protesters across the country called for Zimmerman’s arrest and a full investigation.[9] Six weeks after the shooting, amid widespread, intense, and in some cases misleading media coverage,[10][11] Zimmerman was charged with murder by a special prosecutor appointed by Governor Rick Scott.[12][13] Zimmerman’s trial began on June 10, 2013, in Sanford. On July 13, 2013, a jury acquitted him.[14] On 24 February 2015, the Justice Department announced that “there was not enough evidence for a federal hate crime prosecution.”
The result of a feeding frenzy often fed by fools that finds someone guilty before their day in court follows:
While the shooting was being investigated, Zimmerman, his wife, and his parents went into hiding due to threats they were receiving as the case gained more attention.[154][215] Zimmerman left his job, and his school expelled him, citing safety concerns.[3][216]
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To Dienne…I totally agree with you. If he doesn’t dispute writing the emails, then he does not belong in a classroom teaching children. Why is that such a controversial notion here?
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So if you’re accused of something and you don’t deny it then you’re guilty? Where did you study US law?
And in case you missed it, he’s NOT teaching. And in all likelihood, more’s the pity. But by all means, let’s try people in the press. That’s a wonderful system of justice: may it fall upon you in due course.
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MPG I don’t understand why you keep referring to the rules of law, as in innocent until proven guilty. If he is brought up on legal charges then those rules apply. Esquith’s case is about whether he should have been fired for violations of his contract, which of course has a very different standard. If he does not deny that he wrote the emails published in the Statement of Charges, and they were written on his school-issued computer to minor students or former students, they seem to have sufficient grounds to dismiss him. They don’t need to interview alleged victims about how they felt about the emails – I don’t think you suggested this, but others did – his behavior is all the grounds they need.
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Answered these questions multiple times, not going to do so again, sorry. Check my previous comments to Dienne.
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MPG,
Those charges from LAUSD are not the same as a court verdict and a court verdict can over rule them and cause the district to pay out a huge settlement in addition to all legal fees that the teacher paid and any pay lost after being fired without pay. If the judge rules that Rafe be reinstated, the district must comply or face fines and possibly more law suits. The judge may even order that the elected school board and top administrators be arrested if they don’t comply.
The district can appeal, and ask the state teacher credential commission to resend Rafe’s credential to teach.
If the court’s ruling is in Rafe’s favor, he will get his retirement and medical back, all pay lost from the day he was fired and possible damages.
This is the process. I saw it happen in the district where I taught, twice. Both teachers were found innocent in court and the district had to pay for the legal fees for the teachers and all back pay and benefits and also reinstate them.
This is what due process looks like for teachers. A teacher who is fired for cause is not guilty the same way a defendant is after the ruling of a court judge and/or jury.
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It’s difficult to tell because he’s so frothingly angry and not using precise language. Giving him the benefit of doubt, the best I can infer is that he’s arguing that it’s unfair and generally wrong to speculate publicly about the culpability of someone who is vulnerable to professional and reputational damage and potentially criminal liability when there is a judicial/administrative process underway. That’s an ethical argument, not a legal argument, despite all the references to English common law and the Constitution and evidentiary standards, which I interpret as rhetorical flourishes. But that’s just my speculation. If only we had authenticated evidence and a full judicial process to get to the bottom of what he’s trying to say.
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For all your “cleverness,” you are too cowardly to post your snide comments under your real name. And I can understand why, given their cheapness and utter lack of concern for anything vaguely approaching any concern for Esquith, on the remote chance that he’s not quite the monster you, in your infinite wisdom, have concluded he must be.
Must take enormous courage to take pot shots at people from behind a mask. Strikes me that the real “pervs” here are folks like you: gutless wonders who snipe from the safety of anonymity.
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I thought that was a pretty good guess at what you’re trying to argue. If you can express it more clearly, please do..
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I’ve made my principle point repeatedly. You don’t care to recognize its validity. Being snide about is hardly going to make me want to waste my time reworking these points again for your dismissal or mockery. Funny how many of the sneering bullies here are afraid to use their real names. Well, not all that funny, actually. Think you could get away with that outside the cushy little womb the Internet provides for smearing people? You are familiar with the right of the accused to confront his accusers, I’m sure. Oh, right. It’s not a trial. So anything goes.
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You don’t have to “rework” your points. Just write two or three sentences that express the main point. It can’t take more of your time than it takes to insult people about how they’re a coward or how they don’t understand the US legal system. It shouldn’t, anyway.
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What I’ve been suggesting isn’t about failure to UNDERSTAND how the US legal system works. Rather it’s about not giving a fig for how it works and wanting instead to have it work closer to kangaroo courts and lynch mobs, at least here in THIS branch of The Court of Public Opinion.
But of course, my mentioning basic tenets of English law upon which our entire American legal system is based has resulted in a) reminders that there’s no criminal case pending against Esquith (really? No duh! But there seems to be no dearth of would be jailers and executioners weighing in here nonetheless. Maybe you should clue in a few like-minded Esquith-critics?
Further, my reminding people that none of us has seen actual legal evidence because until there’s a case against Esquith other than in the media no such evidence exists seems to result in repeated cries that I “see the emails.” But much as I might wish to, I cannot. Nothing has been authenticated. Nothing has passed the lowest test in court to qualify as evidence. We have hearsay. No more. But still, the mob wishes to lynch someone. We’ve seen this again and again, and not just in cases involving teachers. Verdicts rendered by armchair lawyers, with sentences passed and punishment demanded.
I’m as eager as anyone to see Bill Cosby brought to trial. But until he is, I won’t declare him guilty, regardless of how bad things look and how guilty I might believe him to be. That’s not my job. It’s not the job of anyone here to pass judgment on Rafe Esquith. But many are doing so repeatedly. I find that troubling. That you and many others don’t is just that more troubling.
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I’m going to hit the hay, MPG. Early hockey game tomorrow, and this discussion, while very interesting, is definitely generating more heat than light. I suspect that this is one of those topics where people’s first reactions color all of the arguments that follow. But I don’t think we actually disagree on that much. I find the alleged email exchanges disturbing and indicative of a man with no boundaries who seems capable of manipulating children in ways that, at a minimum, are inappropriate for an elementary school teacher. I would not be shocked to learn that worse occurred, but I have seen no evidence of that yet. I think the district was probably justified in removing him from the classroom and terminating him. But he absolutely should have every opportunity to protect his job and reputation. I don’t think he should be locked up, because he hasn’t been charged. I don’t think he should be executed, because he hasn’t been convicted of a capital crime, and I don’t support capital punishment anyway.
And although I don’t know him, and I don’t know yet whether he deserves it, I do empathize with him. I imagine he’s utterly terrified. I know I would be. To see these headlines spread through the Internet: Absolute terror, a waking nightmare. But my empathy doesn’t mean I would want my daughter or anyone else’s daughter to be in his classroom right now.
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You do know that “gutless wonders who snipe from the safety of anonymity” is the definition for internet bullies/trolls.
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Talk about the kitchen sink. The district threw every charge they could think of and then explained their lack of oversight as being that they just heard of these things in 2015. Something isn’t right about these charges. Understood that when the district brings these charges before the BOE, everything is negative and paints you in that light. I question the statements of the students included in these charges. The real confusion is how the district got personal emails of Esquith? Is that even legal? I know these charges sound bad but I would tell the public to wait until the other side is heard. This district is vile and corrupt in the manner it has defamed Esquith and other jailed teachers.
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My very dear teacher friends like Donna and Paula, who understand first hand the on-going treachery of LAUSD with their generations of cheating and lying leaders, I want you to know that I, and speaking for my group of retired educators from Joining Forces for Education, intend to stand with you to the bitter end.
I have on occasion been so discouraged at the machinations of the liars and wealth mongers in LA, and in DC, and on Wall Street, that I have written Diane to say I have to stop…to give up since I am old and tired and do not want to stroke out over this. The past three years as a muckraker has caused me friendships and even family relationships.. Her latest personal reply to my ‘kvetching’ was…”Never give up…that’s an order”.
So the past few days of such strange interactions here, with so much lack of understanding of our jurisprudence system, has been exhausting and disheartening….but when I see so much blatant emotional and destructive decision-making re a person’s whole life that had so many successes (Rafe that is)…and so little reasoning and the double standards, as an old war horse…I must hang in.
Nuts,.my family just left for Maui without me. Happy holidays to the rational allies, and hope to see the rest learn something in the new year.
BTW…Dienne, did you pass the Bar and are you an actual attorney, or are you only an employee of lawyers?
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Ellen – see my response above. No, I’m not and have never claimed to be a lawyer.
I guess I really don’t understand what we’re arguing about here. I’ve already stipulated many times that LAUSD is odious, shady, corrupted, disgusting. I’ve stipulated that they are very likely targeting Esquith because he’s become a thorn in their side. I’ve even stipulated that the alleged emails could be forged/planted/fake/non-existent/etc. But first, LAUSD”s character (or lack thereof) does not say anything about Esquith’s character – it is at least possible that both sides are shady, isn’t it? And, second, neither Esquith nor Geragos deny the authenticity of the emails.
If the emails are admitted to evidence in court (which they probably will be during the class action, if Esquith remains the lead plaintiff), and if they are determined to be authentic and to have been written by Esquith, could you then condemn him? Could you admit that his behavior was highly unprofessional and inappropriate? Can we agree that he ought not to be working with children? Or must we defend Esquith simply because LAUSD is corrupt and odious?
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Is Esquith currently teaching somewhere? If not, why do some people keep saying that he should be fired? He was. That’s part of the lawsuit against LAUSD.
I am not arguing that the same standards of evidence hold in civil cases as in criminal cases. But last time I looked, there are no charges against Esquith. So the only place where the standards for criminal law hold right now is in the court of public opinion. And there, a lot of folks appear to be using standards below those of civil court: these are the standards of, “If a teacher is accused of sexual misconduct, then he or she must be guilty.” Because, after all, why would LAUSD possibly try to get rid of Esquith or fight his suit unless he were guilty as sin?
If folks just weighed in saying, “I don’t know if he’s done anything seriously wrong. I’ve seen no legal evidence to support the suggestion that he has. I’ll reserve judgment until the courts decide, if in fact they ever do, about his culpability. Until then, I’m not going to claim to know,” I would be fine. But that’s not what’s been happening. We’re reading repeated claims that would only be substantiated by real evidence. Evidence that, if it exists, has been seen by exactly not one single person here, yet many have been weighing in as if they’d seen Esquith raping children on video.
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Dienne…if, when the civil class action takes place, and these alleged emails (not in selected snippets) are placed in evidence, and if they show that Esquith indeed did use terrible and law-breaking judgment, and possibly more, with his students, then of course I would condemn him.
It is because of the history of management at LAUSD, and looking at the last years from 2000 to today, with Cortines, Deasy, and Cortines again, leading the district, and also viewing the different BoE members who voted with these Supts, and the vast political maneuvering by those outside the district (like Broad and his followers) who wish to assume total control, this totality of background info over this period of time, and combining this FACTUAL information (including past lawsuits) of edicts, firings, non firings, disruption, and internal illegal behaviors, that I am willing to wait to see the outcome of the legal case civil where witnesses present evidence and testimony under oath.
It is my personal bent to always try to with hold judgment until all the evidence is viewed in a court of law and under oath….and to make my own decision based on facts rather than emotion.
If indeed Esquith used his position of authority to harm his students, he should be terminated, and then prosecuted criminally. However, I am waiting for parents and other witnesses to testify to this in a court of law, not in the media. This potential material evidence will most probably be introduced in the civil case to prove, or disprove, his veracity.
Criminal action, if there is any, is separate from the class action civil suit, where this evidence or non evidence will probably be introduced to validate or defame Esquith as the lead plaintiff. The crux of this suit will be for him to prove his (and 1000 other plaintiff teachers, trustworthiness and to show the lack of trustworthiness and purposeful malice, forethought, and mendacity of LAUSD. It is the role of the defendant, LAUSD, to prove their actions in firing teachers was for cause and that Esquith and the others of the class of teachers, have no valid cause of action to win.
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“It is the role of the defendant, LAUSD, to prove their actions in firing teachers was for cause and that Esquith and the others of the class of teachers, have no valid cause of action to win.”
Again, no, not really. The burden of proof is always on the plaintiff – by the preponderance of the evidence in a civil case. Esquith and his fellow plaintiff have to show that they were “jailed”/terminated for no cause. All LAUSD has to do is show that those emails are genuine and that Esquith wrote them and they will have destroyed at least Esquith’s case. Rallying around Esquith at this point is not helping the lawsuit. Esquith needs to step aside and let one of those other 1,000 wrongfully “jailed”/terminated teachers take the lead position. I’ve said before, I don’t doubt that LAUSD does target older, more expensive and more outspoken teachers with baseless claims. Esquith, however, is really looking like he’s not one of those cases.
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Dienne…agree with about what is all this that causes all the argument. You and I both have listed here that there is only one filed case at this point, and that is with Esquith as lead plaintiff and LAUSD as the defendant. Some of us have explained the broadened case, now a class action with about 1000 joined LAUSD teachers, is about illegal firing and types of harassment.
There have NEVER been criminal charges filed by LAUSD against Esquith. My point is that if they have known about ANY provable inappropriate behaviors with his students over the approximately 35 years he has taught in this district, and if they kept this under wraps for whatever reason, the district is culpable too. They would become accessories both before and after the fact. Nothing has EVER been reported until this recent statement of charges for firing.
At this time, given the history of lying by the District, of which we do have proof in other instances, and they fact that the LA Times is proven to be biased since their education reports are paid for by outside sources who are the driving force for privatization, then again, my perspective, let the courts do their job of being the impartial arbiter before any more emotional outbursts by the minimally informed public as to Esquith’s guilt or innocence.
Esquith may be a weirdo, he may lack in a sense of proportion, he may be in the throes of early onset dementia, and not understand how his own behavior can be damaging….but at this point NO ONE KNOWS.
I am glad we have a rapproachement now Dienne, I really missed you for a few hours of our estrangement.
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Let’s get real. What they did to Esquith they have been doing everywhere for 20 years.
I have told my story here, many times, but here it is again for those of you who renew to this site, and who think what is ongoing is new!
I was shocked in 1998, when suddenly, at a meeting six months after they had removed me from my celebrated practice in the school I hoped to put on the map in NYC, when I was the cohort for the real National Standards research. Unable to fault my teaching (at that time… they just took me out and made me report to the district office.
My resume is here.
http://www.opednews.com/author/author40790.html
Finally, I was to have my first MEETING to explain why I was not teaching the entire seventh grade and doing the research for the Pew/Harvard research on LEARNING standards. I was TOLD that I had been found guilty of corporal punishment…with NO charges put out, no chance to face this ‘accuser ‘ who said I cursed at her, or to have real legal council form the UFT— CERTAINLY A REAL REP MIGHT HAVE EXPLAINED THAT Even if I had cursed in front of 30 kids, it would not be ‘corporal punishment. MY costly attorney pointed that out when I filed a lawsuit, AND THEY SENT ME BACK TO TEACH A FEW KIDS EACH PERIOD …INB A STORE-ROOM!. MY famous curricula which was dismantled.
The lack of accountability for superintendent Elaine Fink was the direct result of the end of real grievance processes by the UFT in NYC. NO punishment for her lawlessness had allowed her to go even farther. Her Gotcha Squad took out the cream of NYC teachers, who would never have stood still for PARCC or VAM!: http://nycrubberroomreporter.blogspot.com/2009/03/gotcha-squad-and-new-york-city-rubber.html
She never paid the price for the slaughter (of the teachers reputations and careers) over which she presided. She wrote that letter herself… no investigation had occurred…and Ivan Tiger the UFT Manhattan bureau chief sat mute… well not ism mute…when I object he told me to SIT DOW AND be quiet!
My civil rights were shredded and this was in 1998…
http://www.perdaily.com/2011/01/lausd-et-al-a-national-scandal-of-enormous-proportions-by-susan-lee-schwartz-part-1.html
I was blindsided. Esquish should have seen this coming. Lenny Isenberg has been writing about this lawlessness in LAUSD for a decade. http://www.perdaily.com/2015/01/were-you-terminated-or-forced-to-retire-from-lausd-based-on-fabricated-charges.html
http://citywatchla.com/8box-left/6666-lausd-and-utla-complicity-kills-collective-bargaining-and-civil-rights-for-la-s-teachers
http://www.perdaily.com/2014/07/former-ctc-attorney-kathleen-carroll-lays-out-unholy-alliance-between-union-and-public-education-pri.html
http://www.perdaily.com/2014/03/lausd-continues-to-target-teachers.html
My story is like those of that of David Pakter: http://parentadvocates.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=article&articleID=7501
Lorna Stremcha: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/background-information-bravery-bullies-blowhards-lorna-stremcha
Lenny Isenberg: http://www.perdaily.com/2010/02/yesterday-i-was-removed-from-class-in-handcuffs.html
Karen Horwitz: http://www.whitechalkcrime.com/karen-horwitz/karen-horwitz-story/
Tens of thousands of wonderful teachers were sent out of the schools, ensuring catastrophic collapse.
There stories demonstrate that this PROCESS IS THE WAY IT IS DONE… visit http://www.endteacherabuse.org
This is how the Educational Industrial Complex https://greatschoolwars.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/eic-oct_11.pdf
removed the top professional educators from theAMERICAN INSTITUTION which they planned to take-over… PUBLIC EDUCATION.
THEN, with the teacher’s voice GONE, the EIC set out to BAMBOOZLE THE PEOPLE,
http://www.opednews.com/articles/BAMBOOZLE-THEM-where-tea-by-Susan-Lee-Schwartz-110524-511.html sell them magic elixirs: http://www.opednews.com/articles/Magic-Elixir-No-Evidence-by-Susan-Lee-Schwartz-130312-433.html:
and turn the conversation from WHAT DOES LEARNING LOOK LIKE: http://www.opednews.com/articles/Learning-not-Teacher-evalu-by-Susan-Lee-Schwartz-111001-956.html — and in what ways can we support the professional who facilitates learning by the human brain – to an endless national narrative about TEACHING AND EVALUATING TEACHERS…. wrong conversion
http://www.perdaily.com/2011/08/subverting-the-national-conversation-a.html
So Thank YOU, Rafe, from all of us who ran for cover… for standing up and saying ENOUGH!
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Those don’t appear to be emails but chats. They certainly are disturbing, but also easy to forge—or hack into the teacher’s facebook or whatever account to write them.
Of course, the teacher could also try to defend himself claiming this.
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The linked documents claim that they were emails obtained from Esquith’s personal email account but found on his district-issued computer. The email address was included, but redacted from the public version.
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Let me first thank Dienne, Bemo, and Marcus Luther for standing up and doing the right thing. Who would think that would be controversial in this case.
Next, let me reiterate Dienne’s point about standards of review. A criminal conviction is very hard to get. I once voted to acquit someone who I thought was likely (90%) guilty because of the words beyond a reasonable doubt. As it should be. But in an administrative hearing for employment, due process must be followed but the standard is far, far less. In fact, LAUSD has an even greater responsibility to the students and parents. At the very least, he should be removed from the classroom. It sounds like he was provided that due process and allowed to respond. He just wanted to make things public and have his own lawsuit as is his right. As someone who has been impugned and banned from my children’s school in retaliation for publicly criticizing officials, I know from which I speak. Rafe is fired and will get his day in court to review the matter.
But now let me turn to all the apologists who defend Rafe at all costs. I must assume that those who don’t speak out on this blog are not defending Rafe. To assume they are ok with Rafe’s actions works be unfair. But there are several who defend Rafe to the hilt. It is not unexpected that Lloyd would want Rafe to remain in a classroom because hey, everyone is out to get teachers. That mindset scares the bejeesus out of parents.
The reflexive tendency to back teachers just because they share a profession is what Marcus Luther referred to in the code of silence. If and when teachers demonstrate that behavior, it makes everyone again everything they say. Are they protecting this teacher to protect their profession? Would they put the interests of a teacher above that of students? Do they really believe such behavior is ok?
And yes, safety and effectiveness are orders of magnitude apart. Rafe was an effective teacher by every measure. But would teachers defend ineffective teachers for the same reason? Would they claim that clearly ineffective teachers are just fine to protect the brand? That is what I and so many others allege regarding evaluations. When we have data to prove it, teachers attack the messengers rather than saying we must address the 5-10% of ineffective teachers for the sake of the students. Because they simply care more about themselves and fellow teachers than they ever will about students.
Sad to say. Thanks again to those who spoke up.
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There is a huge difference between saying that a teacher isn’t fit to teach and having him leave the classroom, and using lies and innuendo and misleading statements to exaggerate your report of why a teacher isn’t fit to be in the classroom because you don’t seem to trust the actual facts to speak for themselves. If you write a report where you are including misleading things in order to encourage readers to believe something that you have no evidence for, it is very likely that you don’t believe the public would support you if you offered the truth.
That is exactly what the Bush/Cheney administration did. They didn’t believe the public would be behind them to remove a bad man, Saddam, so they wrote reports to convince the public of facts that they knew were highly exaggerated.
I think virginiagsp above thinks that the Bush Administration lying about WMD was okay, because Saddam was a bad guy and we know it. So anyone who dares to question the exaggerated reports must believe that Saddam was an upright guy who should be the model for all leaders.
According to virginiagsp, we should NEVER question exaggerated reports with misleading statements as long as there is even the least bit of truth in there. Because we would NOT want to hold the people who investigate matters to any standards of truth. Let them manipulate reports as much as they want if there is a “bad guy” involved. If you dare to question that Bush/Cheney were wrong, it MUST be because you support Saddam Hussein and how dare you ever say it’s wrong for the Bush administration to mislead folks. He was bad guy, just like Rafe was. Who cares if there are lies in the report? As long as there is a smidgeon of truth, we should condone all the lies and never mention them. In fact, it’s better not to so we can encourage them to keep lying whenever they think it “necessary” because after all, lies are fine and if you question them, you want the terrorists (and child abusers) to win.
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NYC public school parent, I’ll respond to each.
1. I don’t think what Rafe’s emails of the last 10 years show rises to criminal behavior (if the emails are faked, then they should obviously be dismissed and LAUSD placed under serious scrutiny but so far Rafe has not denied them). I do think that no parent would want their child in such a teacher’s class. He is clearly soliciting a minor and continues to initiate sexually-based conversations when she told him to back off (not talking about that stuff till college, etc.) Read all the emails. They alone are enough for dismissal.
2. I recall teachers saying that it was clear there were no legitimate charges when LAUSD had not been able to release all this info. They were “sure” it was all fake. Now that LAUSD has been able to provide the details, instead of reconsidering or even acknowledging that a teacher who wrote such emails (not saying they were real) should not be in a class with young kids, you all still continue to claim the evidence must be a lie used to disparage a great teacher. If God himself verifies these emails, will you finally acknowledge the obvious?
3. All gov’t policy and reports should be questioned, period. Regarding Saddam, Bush and Iraq, here is the truth.
a. Nearly every gov’t thought Saddam has WMD in 2003. That is a fact. He did not. The gov’ts were wrong. Saying that Bush or Britain or other gov’ts knew Saddam didn’t have WMDs is simply a lie.
b. Saddam admitted after being caught that he encouraged folks to believe he had WMDs. He used them to spread terror and deter enemies. He also admitted he had plans to reconstitute his nuclear program as soon as he could. We would not only be dealing with Iran now but with Iraq too. In fact, it is largely because of Iraq that Iran started its nuclear program. And for those who say Iran’s intentions are peaceful, explain to me why research into nuclear detonation triggers and miniaturization designs for warheads would ever be conducted by a peaceful nuclear power.
c. The justification for war with Iraq had many reasons but the overall premise is this. You need 3 things for fire: fuel, heat, and oxygen. If you remove any of those components, the fire goes away. For a major terrorist action, you need 3 things: intent, technology, and ability to deploy it.
i. We contain major powers all the time so we could deter Iraq. It was not Saddam’s intent but those of other terrorists like Marqawi that worried us. Nobody can argue many orgs want to deliver WMDs to the US.
ii. Even if you claim that Iraq may not hand over nukes and other devices to terrorists, their mere existence causes problems. Autocratic regimes are not stable and eventually fall. There weapons can then scatter or be stolen. This is why we must stay engaged with Pakistan. Allowing Iraq to maintain (as we thought) or develop WMD is not a long-term plan. Sanctions were being ignored.
iii. Third, the ability to deliver the weapons. 911 played a big part in this. We previously thought WMD in the Mideast would be used in the Mideast and would not affect us. So what if bad actors in that region has ill intentions and even access to weapons. Seeing our own planes used against us changed that. The US realized we could not detect WMD smuggled into the US. A single device could wreak havoc on the US and change our way of life. That was the catalyst to not allow mobile WMDs to exist in an unstable regime.
4. But I’m not suggesting that folks were not legitimately against invading Iraq. If you were, you must at least describe the alternative. That alternative includes that sanctions were failing as Saddam was opening selling oil despite the sanctions. He was violating the no fly zone and engaging our planes. Other nations just looked the other way. The sanctions would be no more and he planned to start up his nuclear program (we thought he had some at the time). Iran was coming online as a nuclear player and if you think Iran would stop creating a bomb when their arch enemy was doing so, you are truly crazy. You can argue stable autocrats are better than anarchy. But invading Iraq did not cause Afghanistan to crumble. When 85% of the people are illiterate, you cannot have a trained Army. It was destined to fall back into chaos. Make the argument that having two dangerous regimes pursuing nuclear weapons side-by-side and eschewing all inspections is a better outcome than Iraq today. We can have that debate. Make the debate that Arabs are not capable of democracy and that what Egypt, Syria, Tunisia, Libya and Iraq all need are strongmen who hold the “immature Arabs” in check. At some point, I think we must convert them to democracy and let their desires for freedom and economic stability drive their future. It isn’t easy but waiting another 40 years doesn’t exactly help either. You can hold those positions and not be “bad”.
In light of the erroneous Iraq WMD reports, all intelligence is now questioned more skeptically. That’s fine. Question the accusations against Rafe. Ask for due process where Rafe’s lawyers get to cross examine the school officials. But don’t sit there and say you are fine with a generic teacher writing those emails and then teaching a classroom of 5th graders. Whether it is an 7th century Arab man or a 21st century white male teacher, lusting after prepubescent girls/bosy is NOT normal. Normal men don’t have those thoughts and certainly don’t write them to young girls who are asking them to end that line of communication. If LAUSD had not removed this man from his position, they would be in line for major negligence awards had anything criminal occurred.
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Yes, Virginia, Rafe Esquith’s thoughts and Saddam Hussein’s bluffs are definitely grounds for firing, public smearing, or invasion and death, respectively.
Do I have that right?
Questioning the possible railroading of Esquith or the invasion of Iraq simply undermines efforts of our betters to keep us safe. We should keep our doubts and skepticism to ourselves while the bosses handle things we’re just too silly, stupid, immature, and soft to combat ourselves.
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virginiasgp, thank you replying.
Now I understand that you don’t have a problem with the Bush/Cheney administration using exaggerated claims and misleading facts that they KNEW there was no evidence for because of the higher goal.
Case closed. Regardless of what they believed, they did not trust the public to weigh the facts and make a judgement to support or not support the war using only what they knew to be true. You don’t have any problem with governments knowingly being dishonest if they think it will help fight terrorism or nail someone who is a serial child abuser.
We obviously disagree. I think that the public is never served if the government feels they have to be untruthful to get their way. You don’t have a problem with that. It’s fine. We will just continue to disagree in our belief that an honest government who doesn’t lie is something that the public should demand, and dishonest reports are something that the public should be able to criticize without being attacked as “wanting the terrorists to win”. You obviously think I supported terrorism by criticizing the Bush/Cheney administration misleading run-up to war. But I think you support fascism by condoning the Bush/Cheney administration lies because you believe they were in service to a higher goal.
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NYC public school parent, I do not think you support terrorists because you didn’t support the US going to war against Iraq. That is a legitimate position. I do suggest you need to spell out how your vision of how the Middle East would look today had Saddam remained in power and (admitted he was planning to do) pursued WMD. To just criticize all decisions as bad (as Human Rights Watch might do against Israel) is very naive.
I don’t support dishonest reports. I do not believe the US gov’t provided dishonest data prior to the Iraq war. The WMDs were not the only reason for going to war. The administration (and most countries around the world) believed Saddam had WMD. So how did they “lie”? How did they mislead the public into thinking Saddam had WMD when they themselves thought they had WMD? Saddam gave an interview in which the reporter asked him why he didn’t just allow the inspections prior to the war. He said he needed others to believe he had WMD. The gov’t should put out its best intelligence estimate. Just like many believe ISIS would metastasize, Obama should have allowed these views to become public in the last year. Bush could have been more open about opposing views inside the US gov’t about going to war in Iraq. But the consensus was that he had WMD.
The committee that determined Rafe should be removed should publish the materials provided by Rafe if Rafe allows them to be made public. The “record” should be complete. I agree. But as I recall, Rafe did not want to cooperate in that process and filed his lawsuit in court. That’s his right and I support his right to do that. But you can’t say on the one hand that the district should keep these things close hold and then on the other say the district was totally unfair because they had no evidence to fire Rafe. If employee decisions are confidential, the employee deserves due process but the public may never see the full record. If the employee chooses to put information out, then put out the whole record. How was the district knowingly dishonest? Rafe can publish his account of things but I don’t think the district has the authority to do so.
Here, I will say that I have experience with this conundrum in my own district. I have been banned from my own children’s school for asking the principal how she was protecting student privacy under FERPA for student retests on statewide tests during a public PTA meeting. Not other schools mind you where I have even been called onstage during assemblies, only my own kids’ school. The school board had been looking for ways to ban me to prevent me from communicating with other parents in the school. As soon as I received the district’s “charges”, I posted the whole thing on the internet. I did so before I had even read them because I knew I had done nothing wrong (hint: I have a DoD clearance and just completed a renewal investigation in Aug 2014). I also posted my replies to the school board (here is attached letter). I am not suggesting employee’s must do this, but that would be consistent with someone who feels they are completely innocent. Note that in my case, the school employee’s called 911 to protest my handing out flyers describing the FERPA violations on the public sidewalk. The sheriff was so not amused by the frivolous call from an elementary that they refused to even send a deputy to investigate a 911 call. Think about that for a second. As for providing a complete picture, they intentionally took my online posts out of context:
1. They referenced a link in which I referred to “calling shotgun” so that my question would be allowed the next time (as in first in line). A district parent conference on “teacher effectiveness” promised to answer questions but had not allowed a single one. Not only do they not provide the context but they conveniently leave out that I was “calling shotgun” to get in line.
2. They reference a “be prepared” quote in an online forum. That was also related to a parent conference in which I planned to ask them why they hid PISA test scores that showed my district scored high overall, but when affluence was taken into account, we scored below similar kids in the US and in every other OECD country. They claim the phrase was related to some kind of security “threat”. Seriously, from a cleared contractor?
3. They reference my post about a “target rich environment” of science fair parents to hand out my Virginia SGP info cards. They clearly knew it had nothing to do with being a security threat as minutes later, union commenters posted in the same forum that I should not be allowed to hand out such cards. But the district included an out-of-context quote anyway.
If the school board committee would have considered information from both sides, the decision would have been reversed. But in the review, 2 of the 3 admitted they had not read the administrative review packet and didn’t even have my appeals. It didn’t matter because the letter had been originally issued by their direction in retaliation for me criticizing them publicly. That’s why they are due for a large $$ penalty. Ask Rafe to publish as I have.
Lloyd, if you think Rafe should be removed from the classroom, then I will retract my statement. I do not think Rafe’s actions in the last 15 years rise to that of a crime but I am no lawyer. And no, you don’t have to have a criminal conviction to lose “credentials”. Ever heard of a security clearance? They can revoke that for a lot of reasons. Anyone who works with kids on a regular basis should have some type of investigation. Nobody who is honest would object to that.
As to due process rights, you are correct. While a district should pull someone from the classroom when there are legitimate questions, they should not be penalized until provided due process. I am quite familiar with that topic as I go through my appeal. There are different standards of due process with constitutional rights requiring the highest level. But teachers and gov’t employees are generally provided strong rights through state laws. My understanding was that Rafe was provided due process rights within the LAUSD system. He could also file a suit to protest that process. It sounds like his suit is related and that he’s bringing in a lot of additional issues. I actually don’t support Rafe losing his pension. I think each teacher should have an “account” with their pension dollars reserved for them. If they leave after 5, 10, 20 or 30 years, they should get the pension. Not having portable pensions are why Rafe is in this situation. I don’t support that since it’s essentially his money.
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“Lloyd, if you think Rafe should be removed from the classroom, then I will retract my statement.”
It doesn’t matter what I think, and he has already been removed from the classroom, so it is a moot point.
Rafe will have his day in court. Just the fact that he is taking LAUSD to court is a dramatic statement in itself.
As for him making public statements defending himself, there is no rule or law that requires him to do that just bcause some foolish mob thinks it is a sign of guilt. Unlike the foolish vigilantes and witch hunters in this thread that have already convicted him, I’ll wait for the court verdict.
And when it comes either way, it still won’t matter what I think. What I think will not change anything that is happening to Rafe.
Any evidence that has already been released by the media has not be accepted by the courts as admissible evidence. In court, the evidence will be presented in context and might look entirely different.
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” if you think Rafe should be removed from the classroom, then I will retract my statement. I do not think Rafe’s actions in the last 15 years rise to that of a crime but I am no lawyer. And no, you don’t have to have a criminal conviction to lose “credentials”. Ever heard of a security clearance? They can revoke that for a lot of reasons. Anyone who works with kids on a regular basis should have some type of investigation. Nobody who is honest would object to that.”
This is the sort of thing that cracks me up. You HAVE noticed that Esquith HAS been removed from the classroom. Why does anyone here need to grant what “should” happen, when it already HAS happened?
And you’re not the only one who seems desperate to get some of us to “admit” that same thing: based on hearsay evidence, we’re to condemn someone. But that requires more knowledge than any of us have. Why that doesn’t bother those so willing to condemn nonetheless would be an interesting area of inquiry. But what much of this recalls to me is being pulled over for speeding or some other moving violation and having a police officer repeatedly try to get me to describe what “would have happened” if some particular sequence of events (that didn’t happen) had followed my infraction. I wouldn’t. I simply repeated that if he intended to write a citation, he should do so, give it to me, and let me go on my way. Finally, he did, but he really appeared to have an enormous need to get me to agree that mayhem would almost certainly have been the result of my transgression (had a particular sequence of things occurred that in fact did not). It was weird. It felt like some sort of religious inquisition. And I wouldn’t play along.
And I won’t play along here, where there’s far less to worry about. But I can’t help but notice that there’s that same passion to extract an admission (though in this case, it’s even more groundless than in the case of that traffic stop). I really do feel like I’m dealing with some very odd attitudes and beliefs. I like my persecutions and prosecutions a little more solidly grounded in fact, I guess.
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MPG, nearly everything that could be said has been. But let me make one last point.
The scary part is when these allegations first surfaced, many very credible people did not say that we should “wait and see” but concluded this must be a sham to suppress teacher criticism and that we should not believe Rafe could possibly do harm. WP’s Jay Matthews used the word “persecute” in the headline of the story. According to Strauss and Matthews, a serious investigation should not have even occurred. Look at the comments below those articles. Teachers claimed it couldn’t be true. When someone doesn’t believe a person is capable of committing a crime, their victims are out on their own. I am not saying that you were one of the folks calling it “persecution” but Dienne and Marcus has a valid point.
None of my friends believe I could possibly be a threat to anyone in our school district. I am not. But even I must admit it’s fair to conduct an honest investigation once somebody makes that assertion since we cannot afford to put folks at risk. It’s only when folks intentionally take innocent comments out of context (and even edit the quotes) that public official behavior becomes negligent and possibly criminal. In my case, the sheriff always backed me even as the school district desperately tried to block my public criticism. That’s a sign of school districts gone awry.
You cannot rewrite history. The reflexive decision of teachers to ignore/refute any criticism of another teacher is why we must have objective investigations and evaluations. Maybe if teachers would not defend their own against insurmountable evidence, we wouldn’t have such a large gulf between parents/taxpayers and teachers. I’ll be the first one to admit that public officials oppress some teachers (I have seen it in my district) but nobody should claim innocence before seeing the allegations.
Lloyd, rules of evidence are designed to protect against falsely imprisoning an innocent person. They are not designed to maximize the accuracy of rulings. And in a civil case, the rules and standards are much less. Take OJ Simpson. Is he “innocent”? His criminal trial resulted in “not guilty”. Is that “innocent”? However, he lost his civil case for wrongful dealth. I haven’t found anybody on here arguing Rafe should be in jail based on what was released (not unless children from 1970’s can testify under oath credibly). But you can’t deny that dozens of teachers defended Rafe before seeing any evidence or even allegations just because he was a “great teacher”. I did not call for his removal when the allegations first surfaced this summer but rather a careful review by the authorities. The other side was not so patient. That is your side btw.
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I can’t worry about what people were saying about the Esquith situation before this conversation. I’m looking at what’s been written here by Diane and those who weighed in afterwards.
Is it conceivable that someone could be getting railroaded even if s/he wasn’t squeaky clean? In my experience, no one is without “sin,” so it’s always possible to find something to bring up that shows him/her in a bad light. Does that mean that s/he’s therefore guilty of any and all charges raised thereafter? The law doesn’t think so and goes to some lengths to exclude irrelevant charges or convictions. Sometimes it may go too far and other times I suspect it fails to go far enough in deciding upon what is relevant from someone’s past.
I remain agnostic on the charges against Esquith. I am anything but agnostic on the basic protections of the law (not to mention of decent and ethical human conduct) that obtain for any accused person in the US. Nothing anyone is going to write here, no matter how high their dudgeon, will dissuade from the rightness of those protections.
If someone writes that they don’t care WHAT Esquith actually did: he’s a saint and must be pardoned, I’ll suggest that such a person have another tussle with his/her moral & ethical compass. Time for recalibration, perhaps.
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MPG, fair enough.
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Virginaspg said, “It is not unexpected that Lloyd would want Rafe to remain in a classroom because hey, everyone is out to get teachers.”
Where did I ever say I wanted Rafe to stay in the classroom? PROVE it! Find my exact words in this thread.
What I have repeatedly said is that I support innocence before guilt and will not join the vigilantes and witch hunters to condemn him or claim he is guilty of any crime.
It’s in the U.S. Bill of Rights. Through the Due Process Clause established in the 14th Amendment, the Supreme Court ruled that the Bill of Rights is susceptible to inclusion against State governments. Due process is a principle outlined in the 14th Amendment that forces the Federal Government to respect all legal rights awarded to an individual according to U.S. law. The Supreme Court has interpreted this Amendment as a direct extension of the Bill of Rights (and the entire Constitution) to all levels of Government. Although some of the Amendments outlined in the American Constitution are archaic, Due Process enables most of them to extend to all matters of the law.
By the way, the corporate public education demolition derby is working hard to get rid of the 14th Amendments due process rights. If they succeed, even you will have to fear being accused of a crime byu anyone and being found guilty without a chance to prove your innocence in court.
A number of comments here that reflect my thinking have also said that Rafe will probably never teach again—at least in LAUSD. I agree. He will probably never teach again in a public school.
Will a corporate Charter school hire him—since there is repeated evidence that they hire frauds and even convicted criminals all the time, I wouldn’t be surprised?
Will a prestigious private school hire him if he is found innocent in court? Maybe, if he wants to continue teaching and the private school honors the court verdict, because even if he is found innocent in court and gets his retirement back—I understand that the allegations used to fire him also took away his retirement package and to get it back he has no choice but to go to court—-he could still lose his credential to teach. Teaching is the only profession in America where you can be found innocent in court and still be considered guilty by the state commission that grants certificates to teachers and have your certificate pulled.
It would be interesting to see if the state would pull his credential based on the allegations by the LAUSD.
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Lloyd…glad you brought up the State of California Credentialing Commission. If LAUSD has known of serious classroom and other damaging behavior of a teacher to students, they have a specific time period to report that to the Credentialing Commission. Not reporting within that legal time frame would make them culpable for legal charges by the Commission against the District for their failure to report.
Wish Rene Diedrich would jump in here and expand on this. She sent me this info some time back regarding Miramonte, Deasy,and LAUSD
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And here it is:
California’s Laws and Ruled Pertaining to the Discipline of Professional Certificated Personal – Failure to make reports is on page four.
The superintendent of a school district or county office of education, REQUIREMENTS
or the administrator of a charter school, employing a person with a
credential shall report any change in the employment status of the
credential holder to the commission not later than 30 days after the
change in employment status, if the credential holder, while working in a
position requiring a credential, and as a result of an allegation of
misconduct or while an allegation of misconduct is pending, is dismissed,
is nonreelected, resigns, is suspended or placed on unpaid administrative
leave for more than 10 days as a final adverse action, retires, or is
otherwise terminated by a decision not to employ or reemploy.
(b) For purposes of subdivision (a), a change of employment …
Click to access CTC-Laws-Rules-2013.pdf
NOTE the use of the word “allegation of misconduct”. Firing Rafe was not a conviction of a crime or proof of guilt. It was due to an allegation of misconduct. Only an admission of guilt or a court verdict legally determines guilt or innocence. And Rafe had filed a $1 Billion court case to determine his innocence or guilt. He has no other choice. Struggling to prove his innocence in the media would probably only hurt his chances in court where it really counts. No matter what he says in the media, the witch hunters would turn his words to proof of his alleged guilt.
For those who don’t know what alleged means, here is the definition:
>>> accused of having done something wrong or illegal but not yet proven guilty
>>> said to have happened but not yet proven
>>> accused but not proven or convicted
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I have personally known five different teachers who were accused of unsavory behavior towards their students. The one I was closest to list their teaching license but got to keep their pension. He also spoke suggestively to the students and talked with them outside school hours on his email account.
He claims innocence, and though I was supportive (he was a great guy and a popular teacher) and try to give him the benefit of the doubt, to this day I’m not sure what to believe.
Once accused ones reputation is suspect – guilty or not.
Lesson: Be wary and never be alone with a student – always have another adult with you.
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“Once accused ones reputation is suspect – guilty or not.
Lesson: Be wary and never be alone with a student – always have another adult with you.”
Your first statement is, of course, true.
Your second does not correspond to any teaching universe with which I’m familiar. I know of no teacher in K-12 in a position to follow that “lesson.” Teachers literally could not fulfill their duties if they had to adhere to that as a rule, unless some major change in staffing were to occur, and we all the that the current trend is towards less, not more, staff.
Maybe in a school where there is 24-hour video tape running in every classroom, a teacher would be protected from false accusations of inappropriate conduct in the classroom itself. Maybe.
As for e-mails, anyone’s account can be hacked. Anyone can have spoofed e-mails sent in his/her name. I’ve never had that happen in a job situation, but it happens daily to people. I get fake e-mails with the names of people in my (vast) e-mail address book every single day of the year. I bet you all do as well. Virtually all contain links to websites. I never bother opening such emails (since I can see the content in my preview window). I can also see the actual email address. And I have accurate radar for such spoofed emails just from the subject lines or the first few words of the message. But there is no protection against this sort of thing that is 100% certain. That’s just one way that b.s. can go out that would fool a few idiots long enough to besmirch someone’s name, and that’s assuming it’s not being done to specifically target a teacher: in the current lynch-mob mentality, having one’s name attached to an email that contained a link to pornography could create a scandal. And we’d have some of our resident prosecutors here presuming guilt and wondering why the accused hasn’t denied sending such messages (and besides, who would believe her/him? Not too many here, it seems).
Lesson: act with integrity at all times and hope you get lucky. It’s a parallel to how to avoid getting mugged in, say, NYC: be street-wise and alert and hope you get lucky.
If you’re foolish enough to think you’re immune to false accusations with little or zero evidence behind them, you’re a victim waiting to be hanged in the public square.
And that’s just some of why I will presume that Mr. Esquith is innocent until there’s more to go on than innuendo and leaked “emails” that currently have zero legal standing.
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Flos56, I think the main reason teachers shouldn’t be replaced by computers is the fact that teachers can have a personal relationship with the students while computers can’t. The more difficult a kid’s life is outside the school, the more the teacher may have to find out about the kid.
The degree of involvement, of course, should have limits, but the limits are not necessarily clear, are they?
The issue is not that simple, and varies by countries, cultures and by the age of the student. Can the teacher hug a 6 year old when he starts crying during a CC test? Eva Moskowitz probably wouldn’t do that, but others?
I think students’ feeling a teacher’s compassion is very important at any level. As soon as we agree that teaching is not about conveying information, we do need to talk about some degree of personal involvement with the student.
This is exactly what people who study human brain and learning are saying, and this is what George Lakoff is saying toward the end of his lecture. Here is the link to this punchline of his lecture,
I think this is the issue where a real educator gets separated from TFA-ers: the TFA bible, “Teach Like a Champion”, is all about techniques, and nothing about caring.
Click to access TeachLikeAChampion.pdf
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Mate…thanks for this video of one of my hero’s and teachers, the great Lakoff, a linguist who teachers epistemology at UC Berkeley. The points he makes here are empirically proven, and are at the core of teaching, and also apply to parenting skills. Hope everyone watches and listens. I am sending this on to my academic lists and others as a reminder of what our profession is all about.
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I think a highly appropriate question now is why so many people get sucked into MPG’s personal tone? Shouldn’t educators be as highly trained as martial artists in avoiding unnecessary, petty fights?
Of course, another good question is why MPG has to start a reply with questions like “Where did you study US law?”.
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Gee, I don’t know Máté. Do you think it could possibly have anything to do with posts that suggest those who aren’t ready to convict and jail or maybe execute Mr. Esquith are just teachers acting like cops covering up for corrupt cops? Or people who don’t have a “protective bone” in our bodies? Or a host of other stated or insinuated very personal insults that have been leveled here by those on the other side?
It’s certainly relevant to point out that we don’t have lawyers or legal scholars or professors weighing in here, but we do have a lot of folks writing like they have inside knowledge of the law not in the possession of the rest of us. So asking where someone studied law when s/he’s writing as if s/he had in fact done so is hardly a personal attack: it’s a relevant inquiry. That upsets you why, exactly? And why aren’t you asking about the insulting and personal comments coming from anyone else on this thread? You didn’t see them, or you don’t perceive any such comments, or I’m just more egregious than anyone else?
Well, I won’t ask where you studied law. Instead, I’ll ask, “Who made you arbiter of what flies here? I thought this was Diane’s job. I’m sure she’ll chastize me in short order, but I’ve already determined to refrain from responding to Martin Luther, er, Marcus Luther or Dienne further on this particular thread or any related to it. I’ll apologize for anything I’ve written when Dienne apologizes for her false claims yesterday about things I wrote, stated, or implied. She didn’t even acknowledge the request and simply moved on to more pseudo-legalities. So I’m not feeling even vaguely guilty if I tread too heavily on her toes. And I remain aghast at Mr. Luther’s ability to repeatedly state that people here have rationalized Esquith’s alleged misconduct when in fact no one has done so. I’ll apologize to him when he explains why he’s finding it so difficult to use the word “alleged” or something similar on a consistent basis. Until he offers a better explanation than mine, I’ll stand with the suggestion that he really feels that Esquith is guilty of high crimes and misdemeanors, has been convicted of such, and deserves punishment. And that anyone who doesn’t agree is clearly trying to justify teacher misconduct of a sexual kind towards students. Which literally no one has done. Although we’ve been told by another self-appointed prosecutor that having any sort of “wrong” thoughts makes one less than a fully self-actualized human being, a crime I plead guilty to in advance without having a clue what it means in the real world.
So on further reflection, you’re right. It’s not Esquith the lynch mob should be after. It is I. Oh, and I should mention that we did it. My family. We killed Christ. I found a note in the basement: “We killed Him.” signed, “Morty”
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MPG et al…..Just to clarify, although I went through law school, I am NOT a practicing lawyer, nor have I ever been. I am however, a university level educator of public policy, and an educational researcher and writer, and a longtime trained mediator, with a 45 year career in the field of education.
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Very few class actions make it to trial. And they can take years, sometimes a decade or more, to get to that point. There will be the motion to dismiss, then the class certification phase with discovery, then merits discovery, then summary judgment motions. The case can be dismissed at any stage, and every stage will involving appeals that draw out the process.
If, in the end, the case goes to trial, Esquith will not be the class representative, and he may not even remain in the class.
So it is likely, I would say highly likely, that a jury will ever be presented with the questions of whether LAUSD fabricated the emails, or misrepresented their content by selective quotation, or anything else that’s in this Statement of Charges. And if a jury is presented with those questions, it won’t be for years.
And then people can argue about whether the jury got it right. And we will never know for certain, because we weren’t in that courtroom or on that jury.
So my new position is that I don’t know if Esquith should have been removed and terminated. I will never know. I also have no opinion about whether I would want my daughter in his class. And I should never speculate about what that opinion might be, because that is tantamount to convicting or even “executing” him without due process.
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sorry, meant to say that it is likely that a jury will “never” be presented with these questions.
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I wonder if you have any opinion as to whether investigators should be truthful and try to get a complete story when they investigate. But I don’t want to put you on the spot, since I understand that taking a stand on whether you believe such reports should be honest and complete or not is something that many people would dare to go on on a limb to support. People can have different opinions on whether an honest attempt to get at the truth is necessary.
But I am willing to go out on a limb. I SUPPORT honest and complete investigations and not investigations designed to mislead people into believing something that isn’t true.
That’s why I objected when the Bush/Cheney administration was dishonest in their claims that Saddam had WMD. But I’m sure the same people who are offended that I would question this LAUSD report also think that it’s wrong to question Bush/Cheney. After all, Saddam was a bad guy and that’s the bottom line. Demanding an honest report to the public is just something done by people who “support” terrorists and child abusers want. If this report is dishonest in some places, who cares, because one or two things that they said are true and that’s what we should focus on — not whether dishonesty was the norm. The dishonesty isn’t important at all — and if you mention it you want the terrorists to win. Or the child abusers to win.
I know that taking such a controversial stand is problematic for some people. It’s interesting how many people are scared to support honesty because they might be called supporters of terrorists or child abusers. It’s sad that so many people on here are unwilling to speak out for them.
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Is this a serious question, or are you just trying to say that I’m dishonest?
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My question is whether you would “go out on a limb” and actually state for the record that an investigator’s report of a teacher’s wrong-doing should try to be as honest and complete as possible and not cherry pick bits and pieces and use innuendo and rumors that you make no effort to substantiate in order to rile people up and convince them that Rafe sexually abused a number of the 5th grade girls in his class?
Many people say that’s not what the report says Rafe did, just like many people say that the Bush/Cheney administration’s reports didn’t actually state for the record that Saddam had WMD. If the public believes that Saddam had WMD, it was not the fault of the Bush Administration and how dare anyone criticize them. And if people believe that Rafe is a serial abuser and rapist of some 5th grade girls, how dare anyone criticize a report that doesn’t actually say that, just goes out of its way to make the public believe that he is.
After all, if you don’t care about honesty because you don’t “trust” the public to make judgements on the facts alone, you would never criticize this LAUSD repot. So what’s your opinion? Is this a full and honest report by an investigator just trying to get at the truth? Or is it a report designed, like the ones the Bush/Cheney administration released, that is designed to get the public to believe something that there is no evidence for in pursuit of some “higher” goal?
Is it okay to criticize this report without wanting “pedophile teachers” or “the terrorists” to win?
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My interpretation of your response is that your question (“whether investigators should be truthful and try to get a complete story when they investigate”) was not a serious question. So I won’t give you a serious answer.
Separately, the Statement of Charges isn’t an investigator’s report. It’s a type of “charging instrument,” similar to an indictment or a complaint.
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Ellen
A 45 year career in education and you never once mention being a teacher of real students in a real classroom (K-12). Correct me if I am wrong.
If you have not, it smacks of being the same as the pretend teachers like TFAers. That is what I believe they are. No different from when I was young and pretended to be a teacher with my dolls and stuffed animals. How can you be an educator of public policy when you never had the experiences that make you an experienced expert of those policies? Never mind, that’s what all TFAers do when they finish their two year loan payoff requirement.
As a real teacher of real students, I did find myself alone with students from time to time. One was a girl whose mother had been arrested for drugs and taken away in front of her, just before she entered my class that year. She was very angry and lashed out at everyone. She was 6 years old. Obviously she could not concentrate on school. The expression on her face was always total anger.
She would run away from school and walk home (her grandmother’s), strike out and kick the principal in the shins, etc. When no one could deal with her, I would take her into my classroom and hold and rock her back and forth. This is what she needed at the time and I gave it to her.
I had not seen her for many years when I ran into her recently at the voting booth. She looked at me and said my name. She spoke with me and was so happy. She could not stop smiling. She was beautiful. Her face looked entirely different. Her eyes shone. She is working in the medical field.
I know I saved her life. I will never regret doing what I did for her when she was my student.
I love children which is why I became a teacher. I feel so good knowing how many children I have positively impacted over the years.
I believe most true teachers became so (after purposely choosing to enter college to actually study and learn HOW to be one, not majoring in something else and then becoming a pretend teacher for a couple of years because they can’t get a job in their field, want to build their resumes, and pay off their loans, while acting entitled and superior) because they truly like children and want to help them have a better life.
There are reasons people cannot use their real names on blogs. Even though my “name” here is male, I am a female.
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“Robert Tellman…who identifies female”….I spent many years as an educational consultant doing research projects in pubic school districts all over the US, working for major NGOs in their educational research departments. These were generally longitudinal studies with stratified randomly selected districts and schools. On occasion I was hired to add to design input and then, after vast data collection over many, I sometimes participated in analyzing and evaluating the data, but that part is not my specialty. I also was a team leader in this work. All participants had advanced degrees. I also had law school background.
My classroom teaching has NEVER been K – 12 (other than when I was in grad school and worked for two years at a private secular high school as a two day a week teacher of Comparative Religion…a fluke in my checkered academic career), but rather I have taught, and participated in text book writing, in graduate school since 1987, and as an adjunct prof now, I still do …but for the past 13 years I have also taught Lifelong Learning, and my students are often even older than I, and with heavy duty creds.
Two years ago I taught a course on the History of Economics using the Heilbronner book Learning from Worldly Philosophers as the core text. The class had 21 male students, and 7 were lawyers, 4 of them from Harvard, ( and thankfully a Keysian professor emeritus from my own university) who all wanted to show me that they were smarter than I. Kept me on my toes.
And I taught a class a few years ago on American Public Education using as core book, Diane Ravitch, The Death and Life of the Great American School System. Shortly thereafter, Diane started her blog, I joined, and now write endlessly about issues in my community, particularly about the local billionaire, Eli Broad, and his race to takeover LAUSD and privatize it completely.
You and the world now know most of my career activities…hope this satisfies your curiosity. As one who uses a pseudonym, and is accusatory about me being a TFA kid, this might relieve your suspicions. Did you know that TFA has only been in existence for about 25 years? That would have made me the eldest kid in their history. Hope you don’t teach math.
I am sorry that you feel I am not worthy of calling myself an educator. I only posted that short bit to validate my own creds, particularly to Dienne, in light of the challenging conversation here today.
But I must add that I am relieved to read the later comments by Dienne who is back to writing with her usual insight and informed positions. I have generally been in agreement with her for the past years, and today is the FIRST time we hit a snag in viewing Rafe, LAUSD, and the courts, from a different perspective.
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FLERP! It was a serious question, but I forgot that when you don’t want to answer a serious question, you pretend it isn’t.
I think this report that the LAUSD wrote sounds as trumped up as the reports that the Bush-Cheney administration wrote about Saddam Hussein. They didn’t trust that a complete and honest recounting of the facts pertaining to whether Saddam had WMD would be enough to convince Americans to invade Iraq. Just like the LAUSD didn’t seem to think that an honest and complete investigation and report of Rafe’s “crimes” and inappropriate behavior would be enough to have him removed and turn the public against him.
The question to you, FLERP!, is whether you believe it is perfectly fine for any government to greatly exaggerate evidence to mislead the public because they believe the full and complete story might not be enough to support an action those in power think is right? Do we encourage such dishonesty? Or do we criticize it? Or do we stay silent, just like many people did in Nazi Germany because the dishonesty wasn’t yet directed at them.
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Again, it isn’t a “report,” it’s a statement of charges, similar to an indictment or a complaint.
If you want to treat these discussions like you’re conducting a deposition or cross-examination (“for the record), I’ll treat them the same. If you have one question per comment, and it’s well-formed, I’ll answer it. I won’t answer 3 or 5. So:
No, I do not think it is “perfectly fine for any government to greatly exaggerate evidence to mislead the public because they believe the full and complete story might not be enough to support an action those in power think is right.”
This thread has cooled down, and I can’t imagine that either of us has anything to add beyond what’s already been said here. I think we just have different reactions to this stuff
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^^By the way, this is my problem with the pro-charter people who post here. They clearly believe that dishonesty and exaggeration are justified for the higher goal. As long as some children get a good education, it’s fine to mislead the public about what happens to the other children and lie about how many children are weeded out. The attempt to mislead should never be criticized because dishonesty in the pursuit of a higher goal is always condoned. Whether it’s getting rid of Saddam Hussein or a teacher or a bunch of 5 year olds you don’t want in your school. Saddam Hussein has WMD. The teacher is sexually abusing 10 year olds. All these 5 year old children are violent! Who cares if it is true — we have a goal and we will say and do anything to achieve it because our goal is right.
What’s sad is when people who should know better refuse to criticize that dishonesty. And pretend not to understand the question.
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Yes, I have noticed that you’ve been trying for days to use the Esquith discussion as another opportunity to yell at me and/or Tim about Success Academy. Better opportunities will arise, fear not.
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Ah, you and TIm are pro-charter, too. Perfect. Probably root for the Dallas Cowboys, Boston Red Sox, Pittsburgh Penguins, and LA Lakers, too. And drink Budweiser.
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I’m actually not pro-charter, but I’m a fan of Tim, so she gets confused.
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It’s true: I am a big, big fan of nonprofit open admissions charter schools like the ones we have in New York State.
But I did not wear the Zubaz of any of those teams in the early 1990s.
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“It’s true: I am a big, big fan of nonprofit open admissions charter schools like the ones we have in New York State.” If only the management companies that run most of them were truly non-profits in the sense of actually being more concerned about education than paying the people who hold the strings, I’d possibly find them interesting (if they were doing something actually child-centered, progressive, and otherwise truly different from the worst excesses of our 19th century Prussian military public “learning factories,” deceptively known as “schools.” If we’re talking about Sudbury schools, Brooklyn Free School, something like that, I’m all ears. Sadly, we’re not. We’re talking about a variety of deceptive clip joints like Evil Moskowitz’s little horror shows and the like. Or White Hat Management’s various scams in Ohio, Michigan, Florida and a few points west. Ad nauseam.
Open-admissions sounds so. . . innovative! Until you realize that with the exception of test-based or audition-based magnet schools, every public school is open-admissions within its neighborhood or larger community. And we don’t even have to put the phony “non-profit” label on those.
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Tim said, “am a big, big fan of nonprofit open admissions charter schools like the ones we have in New York State.”
Be careful what you call nonprofit. The CEOs or managers often pay themselves six figure incomes and rent the space they use for the so-called nonprofit school from a for profit company at higher than going rates. Some nonprofits are nonprofit in name only.
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Tim and FLERP! – you are fans of charters, I am a fan of public schools.
But being a fan of a public school doesn’t mean I would ever support using dishonesty to promote public schools. Because I truly believe if you have to be dishonest in order to defend or promote something — even if you believe in it wholeheartedly — you are an unethical person. And what you think is a good cause probably isn’t quite as good as you are desperately trying to convince yourself it is. The ends rarely justify the means, as much as you might want to rationalize that they do.
I find that when people are dishonest and try to mislead the public, it’s usually because they don’t trust the public to support them with the facts at hand. So when the Bush administration intentionally and dishonestly used false facts to convince the public that Saddam had WMD so they could go to war, I believe it was wrong. When Eva Moskowitz used false facts (we “only” suspend the violent children who need special schools away from normal kids) to convince the public that her charter schools can achieve miraculous results with any child, I believe it was wrong. When LAUSD seems to be using false facts to convince the public that a teacher was sexually abusing the 10 year old children he taught, I believe that is wrong. Apparently, Tim and FLERP! disagree and have no problem with any of that.
We try to teach our kids to respect the truth. At least, I do. So I don’t understand how Tim and FLERP! have such a disdain for it. But then, perhaps they are like all of Donald Trump’s supporters — as long as someone is saying something you like, it’s all good. And it will be a sad day for our democracy when the majority of the public has as little concern for the truth as Tim and FLERP! seem to have.
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^^correction: I should have said that as long as there is a grain of truth in what is stated — as there is even in most of Donald Trump’s statements — certain posters don’t seem to have a problem with the face that so much of what is stated are misleading statements designed to convince the public of something that is NOT true.
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MPG asks “Who made you arbiter of what flies here? I thought this was Diane’s job.”
Opinion is not arbitration. Imo. Passion is great, and in this often overjargonized field of education and law, it’s welcome. But when passion gets personal, it looses its shine and results in battle. Imo.
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And I’m all for criticism of dirty pool when it cuts both ways. When it only mentions one side, it’s not criticism of dirty pool: it’s complaining that the folks you disagree with are fighting fire with fire. I’ve been arguing with people online for 25 years and the same stuff comes up over and over: people cry “foul” almost only against one side, even when the other side not only is guilty of the same thing, but is guilty of having started the mudslinging in the first place.
I’m not sorry that I am willing to toss a little mud back.
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Mate and MPG,
I try to tone down the personal exchanges without treading on free speech. I don’t intervene unless it gets vicious.
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I can’t ever seem to get my reply under the correct post. Sigh.
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Ellen
I didn’t mean you were TFA, just TFA-like, in my opinion. Sorry for the confusion.
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Am rather taken aback that ‘Robert Tellman’ thinks I am not a real teacher, and so she finds my comments not to be valid, since I am only an educator in higher ed…which most here have known for years, and which is similar to our prime mentor and educational benefactor who also was not a classroom teacher except in higher ed, Diane Ravitch.
Never heard that kind of evaluation before. Kind of shocking to me that a K -12 self-professed teacher who is using an assumed name, would want to drum higher ed professors out of the education corps. Especially those of us who have clearly spent our lives fighting for the rights of public schools, and their teachers and students. Maybe she will google me and read my many articles about all this.
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Part of the neoconservative/neoliberal attack on public education requires a steady drumbeat of attack against university teacher educators. It’s been going on for at least three decades and it won’t go away or be toned down any time soon, I’m sure.
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Michael…the other strange and constant derision is offered by Sahila who identifies herself on the other stream on this subject 3 day ago, as being a person who is attempting to overthrow the government, and who is a shaman.
These days, with an election coming up, and with this LAUSD case and other LAUSD issues like the hiring of the new Supt….it appears that even more trolls, shills, and total whackos are commenting. It would seem prudent to call them out, and not to engage them in endless back and forth pointless conversation. They are here to disrupt, so if we do not engage, they lose.
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Ellen, I’m not sure that everyone who disagrees with me is a troll, a shill, or a follower of the Dark Side of the force. Some people just have the poor judgment to view things differently from me. And since clearly I am never wrong, they are by definition in error.
That said, Sahila and I are Facebook friends. We don’t always agree on everything, but it’s rare to find two people who never disagree, no matter how close (for example, my son likes shrimp and olives, two of my least favorite foods).
I will answer some of Sahila’s most recent comments separately, but I’m not at the point where I feel the need to unfriend or block her on Facebook. She may not feel the same way about me.
These days, the only thing that tends to make me take such drastic measures regarding FB contacts is when someone who supports Hillary Clinton starts bashing Bernie Sanders along lines that I find absurd and/or refuses to accept the possibility that criticism of HRC is not instant proof of sexism, racism (go figure!), or being in the pay of the Koch Brothers. You see, I get accused of being a Republican troll all the time, for having the temerity to enthusiastically support Bernie Sanders, and/or for not worshiping HRH, HRC (Her Royal Highness, Hillary Rodham Clinton, first of that name). I’m immune to such ridiculous accusations, but I do get tired of the more extreme ones, particularly when I’m accused of being a neoconservative. I’m not even a neoliberal, and at least that has “liberal” in it. I’m just another aging Jewish radical from Brooklyn. Like Bernie.
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The emails make it clear. Esquith is, at the very least, a creep with very poor professional judgment and consequently should not be allowed to go anywhere near children.
Those teachers who have argued in his defense (in light of the uncontested email exchanges) demonstrate why so many non-teachers distrust our unions. When we come down on the side of perverts and creeps, we lose a tremendous amount of credibility.
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My kind of person, Rage: not afraid to say more boldly what other members of the lynch mob tend to pussyfoot about with: the definitive judgments and labeling are perfect. Don’t go changing: you’re perfect as is. I really wish the others were as direct and honest about their readiness to do away with all those legal niceties like proof.
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I am more than happy to be judge, jury, hangman, and coroner. I have no trouble drawing a line in the classroom floor. Too bad some seem to hold the rights of a perverted adult over the rights of children.
Esquith’s teaching career is dead and buried. Sounds like he was teaching with more than just his hair on fire. The man clearly let his celebrity go to his head, but I’ll not say which head.
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Imagine if there were actual, certified evidence against Esquith rather than unsubstantiated leaks and innuendo serving the interests of a corrupt district! You could bite his testicles off in the public square!
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“Unsubstantiated links” = emails taken directly from Esquith’s computer that he does not deny writing?
Okay.
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You saw the e-mails? You saw them on his computer? You had a forensic specialist authenticate them?
Oh, no. Ooops. Well, the standards for evidence in a smearing aren’t too high. That’s what makes it such fun!
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No, I didn’t see them. I didn’t see the moon landing, the Newtown massacre, or Usain Bolt’s 9.58 hundred in Berlin, either.
Team Esquith does not deny that Esquith wrote the emails excerpted in the statement of charges. That is all a bloodthirsty anonymous Puritan like me needs.
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Ah, I see. Reasonable skepticism (which is what is asked of all of us when we serve on juries) is equivalent to denial of publicly available facts. Got it. Being a skeptic is the same as being a denialist. Got it. So if I question whether Iraq had WMDs or whether the main players in the Bush Administration ever believed for a second that Iraq had WMDs, I’m also a Holocaust denialist. What could be more logical?
You didn’t see the evidence, you don’t know that the evidence is reliable, it has not been vetted, and your strong argument is that Esquith’s attorney hasn’t chosen to argue the case in the media. Wow. By all means, let’s throw the man’s lawsuit out AND cut his nuts off while we’re at it. He likely kidnapped the Lindbergh baby, too.
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No, Esquith’s attorney actually did argue that element of the case through the media, by saying that emails were either A. Obtained by LAUSD’s hacking Esquith’s private email or B. Taken out of context.
Please provide a direct link to the comment(s) I’ve written asking for his lawsuit to be thrown out or his nuts cut off.
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The Dhammapada:
327.
Take delight in awareness:
Guard your own minds.
Lift yourselves out of the bad road
Like the tusker sunk in the mud.
328.
If you find a skilful companion
Who walks with you, well behaved and wise,
You should walk with him, joyful and mindful,
Overcoming all dangers.
329.
If you don’t find a skilful companion
Who walks with you, well behaved and wise,
Then, like a king leaving conquered territory,
You should walk alone, like an elephant in an elephant-forest.
330.
It’s better to walk alone:
There’s no companionship with fools.
You should walk alone and do no evil,
With few wants, like an elephant in an elephant-forest.
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Michael G….please contact me at
joiningforces4ed@aol.com
so that we can continue our conversation as allies. We are buried under a flood of language today…but this battle to save public schools is going to be long and hard fought.
Ellen
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i want to thank the three or four people who have been brave enough to call out the reality here… and then to endure the flak coming back at them for doing so…
i’ve spent the evening looking at a large number of reports relating to sexual abuse allegations/cases (involving educators and celebrities who had access to children), and the number of cases where people are accused and then acquitted as innocent, are a tiny minority…
Additionally, research says that less than 10% of allegations prove to be false Ney, T (1995). True and False Allegations of Child Sexual Abuse: Assessment and Case Management. Psychology Press. pp. 23–33. ISBN 0-87630-758-6…
i dont know if this educator’s behaviour moved into territory that would be classed as criminal…. there is no information on that (yet)… i do know that the emails are grossly inappropriate…. i dont believe anyone faked them…. the man who wrote those emails is gross…. he is not a great teacher… he has damaged his students …..
it’s tough to find that a ‘hero’ is seriously flawed, especially as he represents and holds all your fears for your own wellbeing within a deeply dysfunctional system…
it’s hard to be open to the fact that many renowned people in various fields betray the trust placed on them by their students or their patients or their clients or their audiences…. that the persona doesnt match the PR image built up over time…
sad fact is that when we put people up on pedestals, they eventually topple off and then we’re left feeling mad at them…. we’re mad because they let their egos over-ride their integrity, decency and restraining common sense, and we’re mad because we allowed ourselves to hero-worship them…
i’m mad that so many teachers are making excuses for one of their own… and, judging by the content and tone of the comments here, even if the most unequivocal evidence came to light of this man’s guilt, if much more egregious behaviour was uncovered, some people here would still find a way to defend him, to minimise the harm he has done, to make him the victim …
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Esquith became a “celebrity” teachers, held up on a pedestal for all to admire. You could almost smell Hollywood closing in a-la Jaime Escalante (Stand and Deliever). With that notoriety came a responsibility that Esquith ignored.
In the process he not only trashed his own reputation and career, and by association, he left an ugly stain on the profession. Defending this creep and pervert was irresponsible; at best if anyone thought his email exchanges were acceptable behavior for an adult toward children, they should have remained silent so as not to embarrass yourselves.
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“Defending this creep and pervert was irresponsible; at best if anyone thought his email exchanges were acceptable behavior for an adult toward children, they should have remained silent so as not to embarrass yourselves.”
That’s okay, NYS Parent: you keep posting your anonymous declarations. Must take ENORMOUS guts to do so.
I’ll keep defending people’s RIGHTS. I don’t defend anything or decry anything that I have no real knowledge of. I leave that for you and those who salivate while tying a noose.
I hope you or someone dear to you is wrongfully accused of something involving a crime or misdemeanor viewed as unspeakable by society. Then you’ll have to look in the mirror when the crowds are screaming for your head. And you’ll wonder what happened to the rule of law and those with the courage and decency to stand up for the accused (not for the alleged behavior) and demand a fair hearing in the light of day. You’ll pray that someone like me is there to help keep the lynch mob away from you. But we’ll have to remain silent so as not to embarrass ourselves. Happy hanging!
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And we start the day again with this unidentified Taliban ready to chop off the heads of teachers. These comments show how ignorant and alarmingly biased these folks are who hide behind anonimity.
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I’m a bit amazed at the suggestion that it takes courage to attack Rafe Esquith on the Internet, particularly anonymously. That’s a cheap, common tactic these days that takes precisely zero guts at all.
Did the person who sent me two anonymous, unsigned, typed letters filled with homophic, vulgar comments 12 years ago have “courage.” Was he “brave”? Were the death threats they contained an act of derring-do?
How about the guy who called me on the phone in 1975 and, without identifying himself, stated, “The next time I see you, I’m going to kill you?” Deserve a medal, did he, that fellow?
I beg to differ. It takes courage to go on record publicly to state that until there is some sort of public accusation, hearing/trial, and verdict of guilt, it is wrong to convict someone in the court of public opinion. And when the “accused” is alleged to have commited some socially despised act, to do so is to invite repeated, false claims that one is defending the indefensible. Last I checked, that’s what we do in our system. We don’t lynch. We don’t smear. We assume innocence absent public presentation of VERIFIED evidence and the opportunity to mount a defense.
So to those who insinuate that I or Ellen or any other person who wants to consider all the available facts and hopes others will suspend judgment, I have nothing to apologize for, nothing to be ashamed of, nothing to hide. Anyone who suggests that we should remain silent is unAmerican. Anyone who falsely suggests that I or these others have posted JUSTIFICATIONS FOR OR APPROVAL OF the acts of which Esquith is accused or those which are PRESUMED must have gone on that haven’t yet even been leaked by LAUSD in all its twistedness, you just stuff it. No one has done that here. No one. And if you need to lie about us, be careful. I don’t make anonymous threats. But I do protect myself.
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Ellen — i use my real name…… i have been here since the day diane opened her blog… i’m not some anonymous troll and i am not the taliban…
the man hasnt denied he wrote those emails; his lawyer hasnt denied he wrote those emails… of course the lawyer would say they were taken out of context….there is NO context in which these emails would be OK…. they are gross, they damage his students, he is gross, they are enough to get him fired…. the end…
just please grow up…
thank you
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and Michael – really??? throwing out the “anyone who…… is UNAMERICAN” crap?
we’ve been in the trenches together against ed deform for a long, long time….
i really am shocked to see you resort to such base/crude/unsophisticated manipulation tactics to deflect…
by the by – i’m not american…. so i guess i can wear that label with truth…. i am unamerican and i think rafe esquith deserved to be fired on the basis of those grossly inappropriate emails…
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Sahila, try reading what I wrote. You simply put one assertion I made and then slid it over to apply to another as well. Did you tell us to remain silent? I missed that. So I must have been addressing someone else, not you. Keep the facts straight and you’ll have less to be outraged over. Do you REALLY think I don’t know you’re not an American? Would I REALLY be stupid enough to make a charge of “unAmericanism” against you?
But it’s also the case, even if I were that stupid, that in this context, being “unAmerican” means not believing in fundamental precepts and traditions of American democracy, justice, and law. You couldn’t have missed that. So please: get down from your horse. Your ire plays much better when it’s restricted to the facts. I can’t apologize for not having said what I didn’t in fact say or imply.
And read my direct response to the anonymous, self-righteous NYC Parent to whom my comment was actually addressed: Maybe you’ll get it. But my guess is that you’re so blind on this issue that facts don’t matter to you. So what if I wasn’t actually addressing you with my comments but clearly intended them for someone different? I just won’t lie down and condemn someone based on what’s currently on the table. And you are more than satisfied that we ALL should. Oh, my. Well, here’s my thinking: you can argue vociferously that I SHOULD see it your way. If you present an argument that I find convincing, I’ll change my view. That’s as far as it goes. If you join hands with NYC Parent and suggest that I or those with whom I’m in general agreement here are CONDONING child abuse, child molesting, or actual sexual misconduct, then you’re full of crap, you’ve crossed the line, and I will deny those accusations or insinuations. Should they go any further, I will take legal action if necessary to protect myself. No one on your side of this debate has been threatened, not even vaguely. When people start telling me I should be silent, that threatens to violate my 1st amendment rights. When someone suggests that I’ve defended pedophilia (not an accused but hardly convicted person who’s alleged to have behaved badly but not committed any act of sexual molestation), they are coming dangerously close to libeling me. I don’t sit quietly when I’m being libeled. And to those who think they are safe behind a wall of anonymity to libel at will, check with an attorney and a computer forensics expert. You’re not safe at all. (To be clear, since you’re well over the line of reasonableness here, Sahila: those last few sentences were not directed at you, obviously. But if you cross that line, our friendship will not protect you. I don’t let people fling about irresponsible suggestions of sexual impropriety. Not in this country at this time. As we see, anyone can have his/her life ruined by false charges in this arena. Look at those cases you and others here would love to ignore. No, the circumstances are different in a host of ways, but the potential for someone’s life to be destroyed is the same. If you want to join lynch mobs, you should consider what’s happened all too often to good people when falsely accused. You claim to have statistics that minimize that possibility. You should read the particulars of those and the related cases I offered links to.
Citizenship or birthplace notwithstanding: should you ever be called for jury duty on a case involving anything vaguely connected to sexual misbehavior involving an adult, you might need to ask to be excused. You appear to be irrationally biased, to such an extent that you can’t seem to keep straight what I’ve actually said or to whom it was addressed, let alone reasons I might be saying it. Nothing I’ve done, said, or implied has been in defense of pedophilia or anything of the sort. And again: anyone who suggests otherwise best do it openly and with his/her real name attached to the accusation. And prepare to have a fight on your hands.
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i choose not to do jury duty Michael; the law is an ass – every single situation and every single motivation that drives what people do, is unique and different and set-in-stone rules cant/dont deliver “justice”…
then there’s the fact that no two people (witnesses) ever describe what happened in any event in the same way – different people see/hear/observe different things, so there is no objective reality, and in the end, it comes down to who can afford the best ‘lawyer’, the winning lawyer being the person who is best able to argue the semantics of something…. money buys you ‘justice’ in this country and i dont want to enable that with my participation in that process…
as to the question of my being ‘irrationally biased’…. i guess i have a higher standard as to what constitutes ethical/moral behaviour from teachers/adults towards children than you do…. the emails are inappropriate, in whatever context, and the man who wrote them deserved to lose his job…
as to the rest of your screed…. wow…. threats of legal action against people who ‘libel’ you…. i’m not sure why you feel so personally threatened by this particular topic/issue/thread…. i have read your posts and noticed the references to having been threatened in the past and i DID read the links you included about teachers having been falsely accused (which few cases do not however, prove that false allegations are common)…. still not sure why you would respond in such a personally aggressive way to anyone who disagrees with you on this and who dares to say that Esquith’s behaviour was/is unacceptable and that it is concerning that teachers are failing to acknowledge that and are rushing to his defence…
Peace…. Out….
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It isn’t rocket science, Sahila. I’m not paranoid and I am not over-sensitive. Name-calling, while annoying, concerns me very little. But anything that treads on the edges of destroying my life or career is serious. And I’ve been threatened obliquely and directly with various things intended to make it so I can’t work in my profession, usually before now simply over education and education politics, but once in that regard with a ridiculous attempt to associate me with sexual predation simply because there are people on my 10 mile long street who are on the sex offenders’ list. Cute? Not if you’re on the receiving end of that sort of tactic. So I have zero sense of humor about it. And yes, if necessary, I’ll take legal steps against someone who “goes there,” even if s/he thinks s/he can hide behind the anonymity of the Internet and a pseudonym. Funny that the other person who tried it also thought himself safe because he kept a “low footprint” on the ‘Net and always posted anonymously. Problem was, I knew exactly who he was. When I let him know that, the libelous insinuations stopped.
You think that’s overreacting? You apparently don’t know anyone personally who had his/her career ruined by false charges. Or who was threatened by someone who knew perfectly well that the charges she threatened to make were 100% fabrications. People know how vulnerable teachers are. Don’t piss off an ex-: you could wind up in jail, lose your license, etc., if s/he decides to smear you publicly with an invented accusation.
By all means, disagree with me (though it would be nice if you disagreed with ME, rather than some fantasy of things that you concoct in your ire) to your heart’s content. But when someone (not you so far) suggests that I’m supporting a pedophile, the gloves can and will come off.
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To Michael Paul Goldenberg:
You are an excellent human being.
I am 100+% to agree with your expression regarding “”teaching professional”” CONDUCT, as in
[start quote]
That said, there’s no way that teachers can date, let alone have sexual relations with students in K-12
Some waffled a bit, others couldn’t see a problem if the student was 17 or 18 and particularly if parents knew and approved
So for some of the self-appointed judges, etc., here who question my views on sexual fraternization between K-12 students and teachers, I hope that was clear.
[end quote]
As I mention that I do not go by the book or definition, BUT by “”experiences with reality”” in two dimensions of truth or fault PLUS human conscience dimension, which is, by definition, the complex of ethical and moral principles that controls or inhibits the actions or thoughts of an individual.
To become an exemplary teacher or scholar, people need to manage their time, money, and conscience to alleviate human sufferance without judgment. Have people ever wondered if Enstein, Marie curie… would have time to write like 32 pages ALLEGED fabricated facts in LAUSD report??? This is the point I try to make and to show the precious time in Rafe Esquith’s dedicated teaching career and writing a renowned educational book. Please wake up to smell coffee, gullible bloggers who rush in to condemn innocent teacher. Historically, Hitler, Mao, Ho, Stalin have manipulated to destroy many millions innocent people. How can gullible and delusional people keep believe in FABRICATED FACTS! Sigh.
In short, we need to understand and accept the nature of human conscience in actions and thoughts in certain profession or specialty, as well as human background in education, parental guidance, religious belief, and cultural belief where they brought up in childhood, and grow up in adulthood. We may accept but NOT APPROVE in the legal system whether it is corrupted or not. KARMA is the only and absolutely universal law and justice will haunt us life after life. Therefore, we need to AVOID BEING GULLIBLE and DELUSIONAL. Back2basic
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Thank you for the kind words, m4potw
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Note to our new LAUSD Superintendent…
Dear Ms. King,
Congratulations on your new appointment. I hope this little note survives the turnover but it is important to me that I express myself on the matter of Rafe Esquith. I was at Hobart Elementary for over 20 years. I taught in the same building as Mr. Esquith and never saw a hint of wrongdoing. All I ever saw was a dedicated teacher who had a very motivated group of students- graduates, who gave his all to achieve what he wanted to for everyone he felt responsible for. He was someone who matched his teaching to the abilities of his students, thought outside the box, never took no for an answer, believed in all his students and brought the best out of everyone he encountered. He also did not spare his criticism when he felt teachers/administrators at the school site and beyond were shorting the kids. I feel that this is the origin of trumped up charges that were used to drive him out.
I know the temptation, as new superintendent, will be to think of past decisions as sacrosanct. The issue of Rafe Esquith needs another very close and unbiased look.
Thank you for your time.
Sincerely,
Carol Schrillo-Maloney
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I, too, found it very odd that there wasn’t even a hint of any impropriety in the classroom or with students on Esquith’s part until this past fall. The today I ran across this in an Amazon review of one of his books:
“Afterwards, a credible-seeming series of emails arrived to my email address from somebody who said he was a former student of Mr. Esquith. He spelled out in detail accusations against Esquith in terms of his controlling and inappropriate relations with students. He asked for help in exposing them publicly. I urged him to contact a journalist or school officials.”
The above was written in 2007. (http://www.amazon.com/Teach-Like-Your-Hairs-Fire-ebook/product-reviews/B000OZ0NRG/ref=cm_cr_pr_paging_btm_next_2?ie=UTF8&filterBy=addTwoStar&showViewpoints=0&filterByStar=addTwoStar&pageNumber=2)
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100% happened.
Very cult like
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imo
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