Angie Sullivan is an elementary school teacher. She is concerned about a bill that has been introduced in the Nevada legislature that would permit children to pray at any time and place while in school. Angie explains why this is a very bad idea. It is hard to believe that legislators meddle in the work of schools in other countries as much as they do here.
Angie writes:
“I am spiritual and I pray all the time. I also observe a moment of silence every morning at my public school in Las Vegas. And sometimes I pray silently at that time.
This bill is not doing what it is intended to do.
Picture this: My classroom begins. We are having a reading lesson and a student loudly announces we need to pray and continuously shouts a loud prayer for an hour. Disrupting my instruction. Possibly offending students of other religions. And I can do nothing.
Now picture this: a Muslim Child enrolls and does the same thing praying loudly whenever they want in Arabic. And I can do nothing.
Then picture this: a Wiccan Child enrolls and does the same thing praying loudly whenever the thought hits. And I can do nothing.
Are you going to intolerantly spell out which religions are allowed to pray in schools? That would be an interesting list – will you include my religion – who will you exclude?
Since I think this bill is about being able to pray in your own religious language – you have not considered fully the diverse religions that pray. If your child are allowed – so is everyone else whether they are Christian or other.
I’m not actually adverse to prayer by any and all. And I’m tolerant of religions. I appreciate diversity. If I did not have a job to do I would probably find it interesting.
But I’m not a spiritual leader – I’m a public school educator.
I’m adverse to the disruption that will occur in my classroom – if I cannot tell a student – now is not the time or place.
Separation of church and state makes us all more free because we exercise our personal beliefs at the appropriate time and no one is allowed to take our academic instruction.”
Diane Ravitch's blog 
Maybe then they could pray that the Lord compels the legislature to adequately fund their schools.
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Yes, but the problem with many “right wingers” is that their dys-orthodoxy makes them believe that all money should be kept by them and that “Caesar” should get minimal taxes; that the State really has no role in educating children (or so they believe…..though in the OT the Jews did have “town schools” supported by local taxes).
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Do you mean “heterodoxy?”
Heresy on the Right? Since when did local control become a favorite of the Left? Probably when Barack and Arne arrived in Washington…possibly, Dubbya.
Most astute political scientists would put local control in the conservative camp.
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Unbelievable what politicians will do. Whatever happened to separation of church and state?
There is nothing wrong with silent prayer but I’m against interference in the classroom. I taught overseas and had students from 50 different countries in my classrooms. What a raucous mess if Hindus, Muslims, Christians, spiritualists and animists all started praying in their own way at any time. Muslims pray five times a day at certain times with a prayer call.
At what point are people going to get tired of the political meddling that is taking place in public schools? Students in Indiana don’t even have to have ever attended a public school to get voucher money to help pay for their private religious school intuition.
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“Students in Indiana don’t even have to have ever attended a public school to get voucher money to help pay for their private religious school intuition.”
Publicly-funded private schools in Ohio don’t have to administer the Common Core tests. They’re essentially advertising as a benefit to parents.
I didn’t see this mentioned when ed reformers were scolding the public on how we all have to take the Common Core tests for the “common good”. It doesn’t apply to their preferred schools.
They’ve pretty much replaced “publicly-funded” with “public” re: public schools,, and now they’re reducing “the common good” to a duty to take standardized tests. They’ve taken a big expansive idea and made it much grimmer, smaller and meaner.
We wuz robbed. It’s a shoddy, cheap replacement.
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Indiana just passed a law that doesn’t require private schools to take the same multiple hours and hours of testing as public schools. Indiana dropped out of Common Core but set up standards which our Tea Party Governor Pence has proudly stated are much higher. This ‘higher standard’ resulted in public schools having to struggle through more testing time than had been required in Common Core.
I believe this problem of Indiana’s over-testing was noticed when private “publicaly-funded” schools weren’t competing very well. So, the answer was change the test for them.
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“There is nothing wrong with silent prayer. . . ”
. . . other than reinforcing a childish servility in a person.
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I would like to know more about the elected members of the assembly who introduced the bill, who else supported it, and whether there is a paper trail indicating that versions of this will be introduced in other states.
Six legislators do not, without considerable legal help, come up with the elaborated language in this bill, including a tier of “appeal processes,” with the peculiar exceptions for “gifted students” to have an expedited appeal process.
Bizarre, scary, and clearly intended to disrupt instruction, in addition to getting a batch of court cases on “free exercise of religion.” If passed, it takes effect in July 1.
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There were eight sponsors, seven are Republican with one Democrat.
You can find their names here:
https://legiscan.com/NV/bill/AB120/2015
A little background information on three of them is pretty interesting:
Jim Wheeler (R) – Quoted in 2013 that he would re-institute slavery if that is what his constituents wanted him to do. He, of course added, that he would do so while holding his nose, and probably holding a gun to his temple.
Brent Jones (R) – Member of the Church of Scientology who was involved in a failed ostrich-egg scheme with an irreversible brain trauma patient who was swindled by the church to the tune of $1.7 million dollars.
John Moore (R) – Former Army Ranger who had an active warrant for his arrest at the Las Vegas City Marshal’s Office for traffic offenses while campaigning for the Nov. 4, 2014 election.
As for the language of the bill, we know who excels at providing model bills, don’t we?
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Thanks. I have not looked at ALEC to see if this close to anything they have in the works.
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Something similar happened in Orlando, Fl. The school board allowed religious literature to be distributed. You can probably guess what happened. An atheist group demanded to be allowed to distribute literature. There was grumbling, but it was allowed. Then, a satanic group wanted to distribute literature. Suddenly, the school board dropped the policy. Go figure.
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You can always count on the Satanists.
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Speaking only from the history of my own family and of acquaintances, people who support the idea mentioned in the posting are opening wide the door of religious intolerance and animus.
One of the fall back positions for those that disagree with folks like the teacher in the posting will be “community standards.” And that will be a dagger in the heart of tolerance and acceptance and any feeling or thought that there is such a thing as the “public commons” and “public good.”
And, although they don’t and apparently can’t see it, many of the first victims of a proven toxic practice will be the very people that think—at the beginning—it’s a good idea. They’ll just complain, reflexively, that the “implementation was bad.” Kind of like trying to separate CCSS and its high-stakes standardized tests from “bad implementation.”
The predictably catastrophic results will be a feature, not a bug, of a very bad idea.
Just my dos centavitos worth…
😎
P.S. obediahbentley and carolmalaysia: thank you for your comments.
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Who will they allow to pray? Is it going to be exclusive or inclusive? And do they not understand that prayer is often used to dessiminate religious doctrine?
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Even more disturbing is the fact that these legislators don’t understand the Constitution or Bill of Rights. I’m all for candidates having to take a Citizenship or Civics test before they can be placed on a ballot. It’s the least we can require.
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Maybe we can get Pearson to develop that test!
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“…to the same extent and under the same circumstances as each child is allowed to meditate, reflect or speak on a nonreligious matter…”
I don’t know about your classroom, but shouting out indiscriminately was never part of acceptable behavior not would it be under these circumstances. there is enough to be alarmed about in this proposal without added hyperbole. I agree that the proposal is inappropriate and I would think unconstitutional. Class activities would inevitably be disrupted especially while the limits were tested. How do you grade a paper that is heavily laced with religious beliefs offered as support for an argument better supported in the secular realm?
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Oh good, the Goth Club is back in business …
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Remember why SEPARATION of CHURCH and STATE is important.
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There is no law preventing any student from SILENTLY praying at any time.
Poor persecuted xtians.
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No problem, pray silently, in your spirit, which is already done, whenever, wherever. God is a spirit and omniscient, so no one needs to say anything out loud.
Why the NV legislature needs to address this issue shows that someone is upset and/or wants their specific religious views mandated in class. Kids already have the freedom to pray whenever they want, but their prayers need not have decibels, and need not by agreed to by other children. The State must remain neutral, 1st amendment.
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As an atheist in a Bible Belt state I deal with people pushing religion on me all day. Whether it is trying to sneak in a “spiritual guidance” lesson that they expect me to teach in home room ( which totally is against the law in public school) to expecting to accept my kids getting back late from prayer meeting at the flag pole, to religious coworkers who sign their emails with biblical verses at work, but are nasty gossips. I love my students but way too many of them are intolerant of any view but Christian and Baptist ones, to accept other religions praying in the classroom, or me feeling abused by the overly religious, unconstitutional religiosity at my work where I just go to do my job. It is bad enough having to be “in the closet” with my atheism in the south, without having to deal with that: nightmare!
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Maybe we could make this work to our advantage. We just need to get enough students to pray in the middle of testing or test prep. “Dear God in heaven, please make this stop!!”
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Tago!
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🙂
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Dienne: if I were a religious person, I would call your suggestion “divinely inspired.”
For now, I’ll just stick with “inspired.”
😎
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Maybe they will stand and pray during the test–“I pray that the answer to number 27 is b.”. Then the next one stands and prays “thank you God for answering my prayer.”
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I can see the ISIS recruiters rubbing their hands together.
1. “See? This is the sort of crap we put up with, Americans imposing infidel religions on poor students of Islam, who can’t get an education now with all the anti-Muslim prayers.” How many kids from Nevada have joined ISIS?
2. So, essentially this is “turn Nevada schools into madrassahs” legislation. Is the sponsor Muslim? Wahabi? If not, why is the sponsor doing what killed the schools in Pakistan and Afghanistan? Where’s an AP Human Geography text when you need one to hit a legislator with?
Here’s a picture of a school where kids pray at all times, and the Common Core or any state standards are banned: http://cache.pakistantoday.com.pk/2012/09/MURDRASSAS.jpg
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Nevada: the state of crucifixes and legally paid love, and also one of the most underfunded public school systems in the country, probably among the top 8.
I don’t know about Nevadans, but what a bunch of lunatics that make up their elected officials. I was going to remark, from Lewis Caroll, “Off with their heads”, but after reading Mr. Darrell’s comments, I realize hardly anything is funny any more.
Maureen Dowd, take note . . . . .
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Other than the obvious, my big problem with this is that students would get to speak together, distribute literature etc.–to the same extent that other students do with non-religious topics. That means EVERYTHING else-including school work.
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There is a $10,000 fine if a teacher does not obey this prayer anytime anywhere at school law.
Read down to the bottom.
Click to access AB120.pdf
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To all of whom it may agree:
Here is a letter from Australian Prime Minister
She Did It Again!!!
Australia says NO — Second Time she has done this!
She sure isn’t backing down on her hard line stance and one has to appreciate her belief in the rights of her native countrymen.
This is a breath of fresh air to see someone who leads. Australian Prime Minister does it again!!
The whole world needs a leader like this!
Prime Minister Julia Gillard – Australia
Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of
Australia , as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks.
Separately, Gillard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying she supported spy agencies monitoring the nation’s mosques. Quote: ‘IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST A D A P T… Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians.’
‘This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom.’
‘We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, learn the language!’
‘Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.’
‘We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.’
‘This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life,
I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, ‘THE RIGHT TO LEAVE.”
‘If you aren’t happy here then LEAVE. We didn’t force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.’
NOTE: IF we circulate this amongst ourselves in Canada & USA, we will find the courage to start speaking and voicing the same truths.
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