Peter Greene read Mike Petrilli’s challenge: Mike suggested nine (or more) questions that should be asked of any Republicans who oppose Common Core. Mike and the conservative Thomas B. Fordham Institute are zealous advocates for Common Core.
Here are Peter’s answers to Mike’s questions.
Peter begins by remarking on Mike’s debating style:
“This is one of the things I find vaguely charming about Petrilli– he seems like that overeager kid on the debate team who enjoys making a verbal jousting match over anything from the death penalty to the correct side on which the loose end of the toilet paper should hang. Political advocacy/thinky tankery seems like his dream job.”
But on to the questions, which I will excerpt. Open the link to read the other five questions and answers.
“1) Do you mean that you oppose the Common Core standards themselves? All of them? Even the ones related to addition and subtraction? Phonics? Studying the nation’s founding documents? Or just some of them? Which ones, in particular, do you oppose? Have you actually read the standards?
Yeah, when Petrilli says nine questions, he’s being liberal with his use of the traditional counting methods.
I have, of course, read the standards, and the correct question is not to ask exactly which ones I object to. I would ask, instead, why I am supposed to search through all the standards looking for the unobjectionable ones, like hunting a piece of uncooked spaghetti in a stack of needles. I would not hand a teacher a textbook and say, “Some of the pages of this book are good and usable, so keep the whole thing.” I would not serve someone a meal that is part nutritious food, part plastic, and part arsenic. The fact that some standards are unobjectionable does not mean the whole thing shouldn’t be thrown out.
2) Or do you mean that you oppose the role that the federal government played in coercing states to adopt the Common Core?
Well, yes. That and the role it continues to play. Petrilli suggests that doesn’t make a GOP candidate special among other GOP candidates. So be it. It’s better to be right than to be special.
3) Do you mean that you think states should drop out of the Common Core? States like Iowa? Isn’t that a bit presumptive, considering that you’re not from Iowa and the state’s Republican governor wants Common Core to stay?
This is not so much a question as a dare. Go ahead, it says. Go ahead and declare yourself in favor of setting aside the will of the state. The correct answer is, of course, that Iowa has the right to be a damn fool if it wants to, but that doesn’t make it any less foolish, and any sensible person would offer the opinion that Iowa ought to stop being foolish.
4) If you do think that states should reject the Common Core, which standards should replace them? Do they need to be entirely different, or just a little bit different? And could you cite a specific example of a standard that needs to be “different?”
Let’s back up the assumption truck, and let me hear your support for the idea that national-ish standards are necessary or in any way useful. Which highly successful nations on the globe are successful because of national standards? Which studies show the value of national standards? Because I think the states should get rid of the standards, period. But if the state thinks they need standards, they can best design them from the ground floor up. The Common Core does not need to be (nor should it be) a rough draft, and there is no need to compare future hypothetical standards to it. If your brother gets divorced, and then remarried, you do not go to Thanksgiving dinner and ask for an accounting of how different his new wife is from his previous one.”

“If your brother gets divorced, and then remarried, you do not go to Thanksgiving dinner and ask for an accounting of how different his new wife is from his previous one.”
Well, at least some of us don’t.
“Divorced from Reality”
I never married reality
So cannot be divorced
Reality is not for me
And sure can’t be enforced
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sorry I’m posting this in the wrong place but my blood pressure is boiling… Massachusetts Business Alliance gave out a press release that they have a “report” of a “study” that says PARRC is better than MCAS…. I called the Dover NH outfit that is listed on the front page of the report and I called WBUR and asked why they are reading press releases…. WBUR said he would look into it.
jean s.
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From my count Petrilli asks a total of 25 questions, none of which I would waste my time answering to him.
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Duane,
You learned counting under the old math.
That’s your mistake.
He’s undoubtedly using the new Zimboni Method (TM) of counting which has come into vogue under the Common Core
StatesGates Standard InoitiativeLikeLike
Peter Greene does a terrific job.
Some of Mr. Petrilli’s questions are not just “questions.” They remind me of push-pull polls that attempt, through very carefully selected wording, to sway—rather than measure in truly neutral fashion—public opinion.
The classic? When I was very young I remember someone explaining how to make a point, or better yet smear, someone with the following: “Congressman, how many times a week do you beat your wife?”
Naturally, almost any answer can be attacked or lampooned or twisted to serve the questioners’ purposes.
Perhaps when it comes to making up questions Mr. Petrilli is, by his own standards, what he would call a “non-striver.” And what Mayor Rahm Emanuel calls an “uneducable.”
And everyone should be aware what Mr. Petrilli thinks of “non-strivers.” He has opined on such re charters in a classic of the “don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good.”
Last three paragraphs of his firm stand on the subject of educational triage:
[start quote]
To be sure, this raises tough questions for the system as a whole. As I said in the Washington Post video, there are reasons to be concerned that district schools will become the last resort for the toughest-to-serve kids.
But in life there are trade-offs, and I would be willing to accept a somewhat less ideal outcome for the most-challenged students if it meant tremendously better life outcomes for their peers.
Misguided notions of “equity” have turned many public school systems into leveling leviathans. We shouldn’t let the same happen to charters, the last salvation of the strivers.
[end quote]
Link: http://edexcellence.net/commentary/education-gadfly-daily/flypaper/2013/the-charter-expulsion-flap-who-speaks-for-the-strivers.html
So by his own standards—and relieving Mr. Petrilli of what he patently considers the onerous burden of thinking—in the interest of “salvation” of the ed debates from unacceptably low quality participation (even knowing that this is a “last resort” among a host of painful “trade-offs”) and in the interest of “tremendously better life outcomes” for the vast majority of students, parents, public school staff and inhabitants of the US of A—
No more “leveling leviathans” of frivolous punditry should open their mouths. After all, “strivers” like Peter Greene are trying to move the discussion forward. So while “somewhat less” than “ideal” perhaps Mr. Petrilli should heed Mark Twain:
“It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.”
And there’s an added benefit too: “en boca cerrada, no entran moscas” [Sp., loosely translates as “a closed mouth gathers no flies” with the sense of “think before you speak”].
So, Mr. Petrilli, I suggest you put something else besides flies on your edumenu. If you don’t, your mouth just might run out of its accustomed space for your foot.
Just sayin’…
😎
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Shortly after the CCSS were published I constructed a spreadsheet to inventory all of them, including parts a-e, arranged by grade level, and major topics that were used to structure them. There are 1,620 standards, not counting those keyed to specialized high school courses. Anyone who pontificates about the virtues of the CCSS as if they had studied them, should be abke to answer questions such as these.
Not counting the literacy standards, are there more ELA or math standards? How do you think
Can you explain why studies in the arts are classified as “technical subjects” in the literacy standards? Does this classification mean that studies in the arts must be limited to career preparation?
How many topics are used to structure the CCSS in mathematics?
Why is geometry the only topic for which there are standards at every grade?
Which grade level has the fewest geometry standards? Why?
Which has the mostgeometry standards? Why?
Are there more ELA standards for reading or writing?
Which grade level has the most ELA standards?
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“Almost every article and column written about the nascent GOP presidential campaign mentions Tea Party opposition to immigration reform and the Common Core—and most candidates’ efforts to align themselves with the Republican base on these two issues. (A Google News search turns up more than 11,000 hits for “Common Core” and “immigration” and “Republican.”)”
As a teacher, if I had a student who wrote this, they would fail as would anyone in college.
Let’s start off with the use of the absolute “almost every” – this is at best an extremely vague rhetorical element. There are many ways to correct it, including using “many” and “often” as these grammatically can carry the temporal/size baggage he is aiming for without being so lofty as to proclaim almost every article and column written has these elements.
His proof? A highly unscientific Google search. A fairly vague one at that – I performed his search, and even taking common core as a phrase (as opposed to the words common or core appearing anywhere on the page in any sequence) and combining it with republican and immigration yielded 30,000+ results…but in any case, despite that the current number is more than 3x what he cited (as presumably the floor which may have increased since he published) and that he is technically accurate, but, does this truly support his statement of “Almost every article and column” writing about it?
If his approach to this is that almost every article that meets his definition is what turns up in a highly structured search then it becomes tautological – of course almost everything he is describing matches his search. But then again, is what he searching for describing the same thing the “Almost every” described? If he was truly searching for “Almost every” article and column written about the GOP Presidential Campaign, he should have included Tea Party Opposition (since a close reading tells me that he is now looking in a sub-category of GOP Articles – only those including tea party opposition – and those on tea party opposition will also mention Common Core and Immigration.
As his search removes any mention of the tea party, and substitutes Republican as a general term (which likely has international meaning as well) – we can say that his search does not serve as a strong proxy for his rhetorical claim. We could go another route however though, and say that he should have consulted multiple credible sources of information…but I suppose his infatuation with context free reading makes his hewing to one source for his information perfectly OK.
I’m so glad Coleman taught me how to look at GOP logic critically!
There’s a PARCC question in there somewhere about the author’s use of evidence in supporting his point…
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“Let’s start off with the use of the absolute “almost every” – this is at best an extremely vague rhetorical element. There are many ways to correct it,”
How about this correction “damn near every”.
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I have high standards for him
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The answer to question 4 is, that the standards must be standard. That’s how tech firms make money, from the sale of curriculum software, to the sale of tests, to the sale of the software to score the tests and, the electronic dissemination of grade reports to students. (Gates-Hewlett funded Assessment Group (ASG) “Machine scoring has tremendous promise for… cost affordability to …consortia of states” (and, nations).
Customization would cut into profits. Imagine if computer software had to be individualized, in the way teacher face-to-face communication is. The latter enriches a child’s life and it keeps community money local, to create jobs. On the other hand, education deform enriches misogynist tech firms and greedy leeches on Wall St.
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Peter, you describe Michael Petrilli to a T!
His 7th grade maturity, sillyness, Archie Bunkerdom, arrogance and devil-may-care attitude toward professional highly educated and experienced teachers, as he giggles and skits his way through deadly serious issues, our childen’s lives. He has no education credentials and boasts about his knowledge in the field.
He is the pivot and social butterfly of Thinky Tanks for undereducated Peter-Pan types who are thrilled to be a part of the decimation of teachers and public education.
He loves it! What other high paying job could a BS PoliSci major get? What a waste!
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H A Hurley; I put my comments directly on his site at Fordham Institute and Education Next. I have been banned at Education Next. Checkers Finn calls us “ravitch acolytes” and “marriage wreckers”. The Commissioner of Ed in Mass insults the MTA President in the Boston Globe. I would like to share with you some of the “fan mail” I get when I leave comments at the Petrilli site. It is woman hating, teacher bashing and every other kind of contempt for my profession (not just because I am female) By the way he also put up a disparaging article on his (Petrilli’s) experience at the open house of his child’s school Montgomery County so I imagine he has been out there after Star also. What is more dangerous in my way of thinking is his contacts into the Massachusetts Department of Education, his affiliation with David Driscoll and his “blue sky” reports from his colleagues at Fordham Institute on how we should be testing students. It is an interlocking directorate; one of the articles was “principal pension pay off” and I wrote to the author. It turns out the author is a college professor and he stands students up in front of the college class and ridicules them (I found this by checking the evaluations by his students). I wrote to a board member of F.I. who is a lawyer and I got back an email that board members do not get involved in…….. etc. etc. If you think of some more things I can do other than email the Boston Globe and the Governor would you please let me know as it doesn’t really help to preach to the choir .
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jeanhaverhill~
As Peter stated, we’ve all had KIDS just like Michael Petrilli in our classes. Most of them make it through middle school and mature along the way. I’ve had them return for visits to tell me “I was their favorite teacher”. What? Some were still 1st degree schmoozers, but other actually meant it – to my surprise.
As trained RealTeachers, we know children, we know about the different levels of social/emotional development of our students, and we are the adults. Worked for hears!
What we did not receive training in, was: what happens when the Gates/Petrillis/Duncans/Obamas & Co kids grow up, get rich and powerful, harbor resentment toward women/teachers/disciplinarians, gather at Harvard/Microsoft/Fordham/Econ & PublicPolicy/PolSci Camps along the way & plan their collective, sadistic, financially well funded strategies. We did not see it coming, were busy teaching, cared only about children & had no armor for this collective decimation toward us. Revenge of the Nerds!!! Remember that? We thought it was a funny saying. Ha!?
We now have had plenty of time and experience – should know who we are dealing with. It is no longer about children, standards, and respect for our profession. They are out for blood – our blood.
My take and I’m sticking to it. Bast***s!
I will continue to speak out! No choice!
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quote: “What we did not receive training in, was: what happens when the Gates/Petrillis/Duncans/Obamas & Co kids grow up, get rich and powerful, harbor resentment toward women/teachers/disciplinarians, gather at Harvard/Microsoft/Fordham/Econ & PublicPolicy/PolSci Camps along the way & plan their collective, sadistic, financially well funded strategies. We did not see it coming, were busy teaching, cared only about children & had no armor for this collective decimation toward us.” this is accurate and true in my opinion… in my own defense I was busy because we needed health care legislation passed as a priority; I was busy helping to raise funds for the homeless shelter for women and children (as many teachers were busy in the classrooms)…. and it was only later I “woke up” to the destruction in my own profession…. the comments on “bombing the teachers colleges” and “teacher unions are terrorists” struck me as significant but it took another two or more years for me to see the devastating consequences of the so called “race” to the top and how teachers were expected to use quartiles and deciles to prove who is worthy or who deserves resources….. the whole process makes my blood boil…. Thank you for understanding. Even at the time of the Boston Marathon Checkers Finn was making nasty comments and people were saying “it’s because you taught those two brothers to read etc” that they turned into terrorists ?????? I found an ally at that time Jack Hassard who writes the Art of Teaching and of course many allies here at Diane’s blog….
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H A Hurley: this is one of the ‘fan mail” I saved in Disqus….quote: “I am in awe of your terrible post. How can every single point in someone’s argument as long winded as yours be so radical and simply wrong? But, you accomplish it. Grats!”
I will admit to being long winded ; policy cannot be made on the back of a napkin (in the bar) and policy decisions should not all be reduced to bumper stickers and hash tags.
I will also admit to being “radical’ because I own up to the extreme left-wing of the Elizabeth Warren party.
Maybe someone like you or Duane could look at my long winded comments and give me some legitimate feedback on how I can do better…. I have a series of emails sending to the Globe looking for an investigative journalist to pick up on corruption in the Massachusetts Department of Education . It has a long standing arrangement (corruption) but the price keeps going up$$$$$$$$$$
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Petrilli was patronizing with the parents…. this is what I left on their website: “I oppose the use of taxpayer money to fund “blue sky” R&D in two corporations (monopolies)… they are giving R&D money to Pearson PARRC and the politicos and state commissioners and governors think this is acceptable? Then, when the federal R&D money is used up, the products will be marketed to the states to purchase year after year with new computers required every 2 years. This is not good planning on the part of the fiscal accountability and the auditors of the finances (state or federal ). Furthermore, I opposed the logic model and the built in design flaws — like building an airplane that has a high likelihood of crashing because of the design flaws AND the poor implementation model — showing the policy makers are “yahoos” that know nothing about the educational enterprise ; 28 year old aides in the senatorial offices (who might have a fancy degree from an elite school but have no practical experience in schools)… Also, I oppose the attitude of contempt that the bureaucrats, corporate types , and the 28 year old aides in the senator’s offices that they treat teachers with derision. And, Governor Cuomo treats the seasoned professionals with 20 or more years of educational administration as if they know nothing. There are a good many things that I oppose.
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Maybe Gates gave Petrilli interpersonal skills tips, when he handed him, the check for Fordham.
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If I had to guess, Gates probably does not find a clown like Petrilli entertaining, or someone he would spend much time with, or take socialization lessons(Gates has no conflict being Gates). Conflict…not in their vocabulary.
They are the Gold Standard, just ask them!
It’s all about $B.
Petrilli is loosie-goosie enough to always scramble to keep Billionaires happy. He thrives and needs constant attention and silly immature fixes. So needy. Pathetic!
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HAVE A WONDERFUL DAY!
>
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