New York had the misfortune to win Race to the Top funding. That $700 million will eventually cost the state billions of dollars.
Commissioner John King just released his plan for Néw York City, where the mayor and the United Federationof Teachers failed to reach agreement. King’s big new idea? Student surveys will be part of teachers’ rankings. Imagine that! Starting in third grade, the kids help to decide whether their teacher keeps his or her job.
Here is the best round-up of reports on the plan.
Peter Goodman gathers more comment and warns that all the fireworks are unlikely to provide dramatic change. The school system does not have a large number of hitherto undiscovered “bad” teachers. And there is not a long line of super-teachers waiting to take their place.
My prediction: ten years from now, we will look back on all this hullabaloo and wonder why we poured billions of dollars into a bottomless pit.
Diane Ravitch's blog 
“we will look back on all this hullabaloo and wonder why we poured billions of dollars into a bottomless pit.”
No wonder — it was to line the pockets of a handful of Ed Deformers. Oh, and to destroy public education.
Why not ask the student’s opinion about their teachers?
My 8 year old gave a teacher a bad rap to anyone who would listen because she confiscated a stuffed fish he won at a carnival…that’s why kids should not evaluate teacher.
My 12 year old and I got into many a discussion about why his math teacher was great – he called him ‘strict’ and I would respond ‘but, Patrick, you see that every time you do your homework you understand what you are tasked to do – that is what makes a great teacher…we don’t need to sit here and relearn it’. He stuck to his ‘strict’ guns probably because that’s what all the other middle school kids are saying (the ‘fiti in at all cost’ years) though he knows deep down he was a great teacher.
I have done that and some of that feedback is insightful other times it’s a whine session. I don’t think student input should be used to rate teachers. Have you ever seen the Rate MyTeacher website? The written feedback is what would be expected from a youngster. Most don’t have the vocabulary to articulate what they want to convey. “She’s mean” could be she truly is mean or that the teacher has high expectations. Feedback for the teacher is important but this is too high stakes.
So you think students would give teachers like Beverly Hart poor evaluations? Your 12 year old would not fairly evaluate his teachers? How about as a high school student?
Most years, although lately it’s been every other year, I have surveyed my high school students. It has informed me and I have adjusted sometimes to a suggestion. But to evaluate me, no way.
Are you kidding? Allow an immature young mind to impact my evalutation/pay? What bubble do you live in, man?
I’ll make you the same offer I’ve thrown out there before…I have a large bonus room with your name on it if you agree to substitute for one week in the school I taught at last year. You are in serious need of a reality check.
Does a teacher even need to have any students in order to have his or her teaching evaluated?
Oh, how amusing.
There is a difference between the teacher using surveys as a way to self reflect and learn from the surveys, and the surveys being used to evaluate a teacher and to keep or fire a teacher.
There is nothing wrong with a teacher passing out a survey and using them to reflect and become a better teacher, but there is something very wrong with these surveys being used as part of an evaluation of the teacher.
What is very wrong with evaluating a teacher, in part, by the quality of the relationship the teacher builds with the students? I would think that the quality of this relationship is important to student learning. Do you think it has no impact?
And how might one go about “evaluating the quality of the relationships [that] the teacher builds with the students”?
I have really good teacher/student relationships with some and not so good with others (not that I don’t try, but sometimes students are unwilling to give the class a good go).
You have to remember that students (even high school seniors) are children, and while their opinions should and do matter, they are not mature enough in their assessments of teachers to have their opinions become part of a teacher’s overall evaluation.
TE,
Are children of all ages mature enough to render a fair and accurate portrayal of the teacher? Or even a fair and accurate version of their perceptions of themselves with the teacher as a looking glass?
Is such feedback from minors more utilitarian for a teacher adjusting his/her pedagogy more than evaluating the teacher?
What happens when a child transfers parent/child issues onto the teacher and is unreasonably uncooperative or severely impaired by such emotional issues to the point where home life interferes with cognition?
TE, what happens when the teacher tenaciously takes all expert steps to empower the student and the student does not respond, resulting in a student’s slanted evaluation of the teacher? Then what?
Do we let children evaluate parents when parents are not abusive? Do we allow them to evaluate train conductors, police force, doctors?
Is there a difference between a child articulating his/her perceptions of caretaker adults and acutally rendering an evaluative, value-ridden conclusion about them?
Do you have children? Or students who are minors?
I think the kinds of questions you should ask depends on the age of the students.
I am truly baffled at the hostility of taking SOME notice of student’s opinions about the education we are requiring them to have. Do there even have to be students in a class for a teacher to evaluated as effective?
There’s no hostility from me, TE.
When you pose questions frequently on this blog, it’s considered reflection. I have to assume you afford me the same consideration.
A student’s feedback is critical to both teacher and administrator, but to use it for employability purposes is potentially appropriate with children who are old enough, mature enough, objective enough, and emotionally stable enough. How one determines those attributes and cutoff points is difficult to me. Can you?
The role of teacher and student is not that of consumer and merchant. It is far more sacred. . . . not that I’m saying you think in that vein.
I am a little confused when you say that “A student’s feedback is critical to both teacher and administrator……”. How is it critical for an administrator? What critical decisions should the administrator make based on this information?
TE, there’s no confusion: administrators, if they’re good, work together with teachers all the time to reflect upon practice in an effort to refine, revise, or improve it. An administrator could help a teacher better understand, if needed, a child’s motivation for reacting certain ways and how to address it through a behaviroal management plan. Adept administrator’s use this as an opportunity for growth and NEVER as a “gotcha” approach to managing teaching, the latter of which should only be employed when there is outright abuse, which is rare.
We should. If 80-90 percent of your kids hate you that is probably the best indication I can think(much better than test scores) that you are doing a bad job. We have these in Denver, the problem is they use age inappropriate teacher speak so all you get is gauge of whether they like you or not. I give my kids a survey with child friendly and open ended questions on it at the end of the year also to help me see what I can do better.
What about if 60% of your students hate you?
Or 40%?
20%?
How do you draw these lines?
And there’s difference between a survey designed to “help [you] see what [you] can do better” and a survey that’s taken into account for personnel decisions, isn’t there?
Should federal judges be evaluated by litigants who appear before them, and removed if surveys show that a sufficiently high percentage of litigants dislike them?
FLERP! – I think you look to shades of gray, not a cut off.
Don’t Bar associations survey their members about judges performances? I did a little search and found examples from across the country.
Some of the members of the Bar may have better evaluation skills than 3rd graders! Ya-think?
Let’s take this to its nth degree: Should children (teens and youngsters, alike) be allowed to evaluate their parents, TE?
You mean like in emancipation hearings? Sure.
Trust your students. They are the reason you are there.
So when a parent is strict, it’s ok for an underage teen to be emancipated from said parent because the teen wants a more lenient lifestyle?
I would think it takes more than a parent being strict to emancipate a child, but I am not familiar with the law.
Do you think that a teacher has the equivalent of parental rights? I genially do not understand how people can affectively teach when they have such little respect for their students.
You’re making a heck of an assumption that all/most teachers do not respect their students–also, you make another flimsy assumption that students under the age if 25 have the mental and emotional maturity to understand the value of the criteria with which they are evaluating the people who teach them. Do you honestly believe that your concept of rapport is the only thing that matters? You’re way off base on this.
One if the finest math teachers I’ve ever had had an awful personality that many students found abrasive and odd–yet, I have a great amount of curiosity and high-average operational knowledge of the subject matter from having been her student three times over the course of my jr./sr. high school experience in algebra I and II and calculus. Students with less respect or drive to learn disliked her. If their opinions held any weight in firing her, I can assure you that I would have lost out as a student considering that I had mediocre, yet popular teachers for geometry and trigonometry. My physics teacher taught me more about trig than my trig teacher…but my algebra/calc teacher knew her stuff and never let a kid get away with even turning his head to the side for fear he would lose concentration. She needled us, but we learned and learned well.
The assumption that a student’s perception about respect should be a strong factor in determining teacher quality is beyond irresponsible. You’ve made a few doozies when it comes to past arguments, but this one takes the cake.
Why us it that car rental companies understand that the human brain does not emotionally mature until the mid-twenties and therefore will not rent cars to people under that age if 25, but college professors do not have the capacity to get this? I’m stunned…really.
The only assumption I am making is that the relationship between a teacher and a student is important. Do you believe it is unimportant? Are students simply irrelevant to education?
You cite your experience with an abrasive teacher that you found important in your education. Is it possible that this very same teachers turned other students away from mathematics?
As I have said before, I have been an at will employee for the last 20+ years where my employer has evaluated me in part based on what my students think of my teaching. With the exception of an occasional graduate class, all of my students have been under 25.
Did I say a strong factor? Perhaps you could point out where I said that.
It was strong enough to be the crux of your latest argument. Of course, student-teacher rapport is always a good thing, but no one can be the “end-all” to every student. With all your talk about “teacher effectiveness” being a product of student perception, how much weight in the learning equation should one give to the factor of “student effectiveness?”
If anyone was put off by my math teacher, it was the lazy and inconsiderate student who, from my memory, held back the class in other subjects. Yet, you would give students like that carte blanche in judging how effective a teacher is with your “college criteria.” I wouldn’t trust undergrads with a professor’s job. As a grad student and someone who understands what goes into teaching, I actually felt compelled to defend my professors from the stupidity posted by undergrads on that horrible “Rate My Professor” website. Students can be very vindictive sometimes for no legitimate reason at all, yet you would trust a person’s livelihood to their opinion just because you are subject to the same.
I am reacting to the notion that students have nothing of value to say about how well they are being taught. Any interpretation of how much influence they should have on the evaluation of teaching is something that you have brought to the discussion.
Students already have “carte blanche” to evaluate their teachers and routinely do it. What I am suggesting is that it might be a good idea to pay some attention to what they think. You have turned my statement that we should actually pay SOME attention to what students think about the classes they take to we should ONLY pay attention to what students think about what they are taught. Perhaps this is what always happens on the Internet.
It appears that you like to play Devil’s Advocate, but there remains a twinge of bias undertone in most of your debate points, so if you detect hostility, unfortunately, it’s from a lack of trust that your statements are innocent.
No one is saying that a teacher’s relationship with students does not matter to the learning process, but evaluation on the back of a child’s opinion is never a good thing when we, as educators, know that a child is emotionally underdeveloped. Putting people’s livelihoods up against the emotionally immature opinions of SOME students is ridiculous. Further, by qualifying that SOME students’ opinions matter, please tell us which ones? Do YOU have criteria outlining which students’ opinions should matter and which ones’ should not?
Emotional maturity is the crux of the argument here: Students in K-12 settings are not emotionally developed enough to make sound judgements with these kinds of stakes. A person’s job should never be connected to the whims of a developing personality. These emotional investments change like the weather. Let me put it this way: Why do you think there are laws protecting children from adult sexual misconduct? If a child is emotionally capable of evaluating a teacher fairly in so much as the teacher may keep or lose his job from such evaluation, then surely you must consider that a child with a crush on an adult would be emotionally capable of choosing to have a sexual relationship with said adult, right? I certainly hope you do not believe this.
Once again, I am not arguing that the opinion of a teacher’s students be the only thing considered in an evaluation of the teacher, just that it be considered in the evaluation of a teacher. The very lack of emotional maturity of students suggests to me that the teacher’s skill at dealing with a students emotions are an important factor in the teacher’s ability to create a positive learning environment.
“Once again, I am not arguing that the opinion of a teacher’s students be the only thing considered in an evaluation of the teacher, just that it be considered in the evaluation of a teacher.”
What your statement boils down to is: Should a teacher that students genuinely feel comfortable with and maybe even like have a job over one that students dislike or feel isn’t doing his job? Is this correct?
“The very lack of emotional maturity of students suggests to me that the teacher’s skill at dealing with a students emotions are an important factor in the teacher’s ability to create a positive learning environment.”
Yes, THAT statement is one with which I agree–HOWEVER, there are multiple reasons why a student may not do well emotionally in a given teacher’s classroom, many beyond the control and influence of said teacher. Classroom dynamics can change within any peer group. I have seen some the best teachers put “off their game” by certain students who are emotionally taxing to everyone around them. There are far too many variables to classroom dynamics to place any kind of “absolute power” labels on a teacher. Spend a year in an average public school elementary related arts classroom if you’d like to see a sampling of the challenges that many students bring to the classroom. There are situations with different classes that result in different scenarios with the same teacher. I can assure you that not every teacher is going to connect with every student perfectly. Teachers and students are human beings with personalities. No one is without flaws.
My brother was a victim of emotional abuse by one of his college students who failed his exams and never completed assignments, but who had a parent who was a lawyer and who wanted his kid to get an A in the class or he would sue. My brother was brought into a hearing to answer to the complaint, much to his emotional distress. Thank goodness the college had both the decency to investigate and access to a savvy attorney who found that my brother had been fair and transparent in his requirements. My brother had done nothing that he was charged with, yet the student felt he had a great deal of influence on my brother’s job. THAT story alone is why I do not condone student evaluations being tied to job security. I realize that in the post-secondary academic world, evals are held in high regard, but I can assure you that, at least in my university, a student must give specific reasons for the evaluation or it is not taken seriously. As well, there needs to be a wide consensus among students in every section of every class for this professor over time to even begin an investigation. Children 18 and younger are far less “qualified” to know how to make sound judgements.
To your first point, basically yes, that is what I am saying, though I add that a reasonable way to learn about the teacher student relationship is t actually ask the students.
To your second point, I never advocated only listening to A student, but listening to all students. No doubt a teacher can not connect with every student every year, but we should have teachers that can connect with most students most years.
“To your second point, I never advocated only listening to A student, but listening to all students. No doubt a teacher can not connect with every student every year, but we should have teachers that can connect with most students most years”
You advocate for listening to students in regard to evaluation and cite your support by pointing to the fact that you’re a conditional employee whose employment is directly related to the feedback of students. Now you have qualified your position with the indicator describing “teachers that can connect with most students most years.” This statemate is not germane to the argument considering that evaluations for employment in K-12 do not span “most years.” They are annual, and yes, conditional on this annual basis.
No one is saying that student-teacher relationships are unimportant–the issue is whether or not students under the age of 18 (and in some cases, under 25) can be trusted to make sound decisions about their teachers that will ultimately affect the teachers’ positions of employment. We don’t even let children under 18 vote, yet you believe they should decide which teacher stays or goes? Students should NEVER be given this responsibility.
Now that last point has been made over and over here, but yet, you continually attempt to connect it to some phantom evidence that proves teachers are indifferent to the emotional needs of their students. I cannot figure out why you continually bark up the same tree ad nauseum in just about every thread trying to prove how terrible teachers are. When you do that you appear to argue under the guise of ignorance or something far more loaded as if you have an agenda to somehow prove that teachers are these evil personas who have “such little respect for their students”<–your words. That is highly insulting and quite a stretch to make.
Once again, yes, the relationship is important to inform teachers of how well they engage and ultimately reach their students…no, children do not have the emotional capacity to objectively recognize quality teaching considering the many layers of professional knowledge and skill of which they are not aware. Professional educators who are trained administrators are the people qualified to evaluate other professional educators. Classroom rapport is observable by a trained educator who is objective, not a child who is emotionally "under construction."
Do you want to go again?
Once again I would not ask younger students about the quality of the teaching, I would ask younger students about their perception of the quality of the relationship they have with the teacher.
Once again I am not attempting to prove that “teachers are indifferent to the emotional needs of their students”. I am suggesting that it is possible that there are teachers that will do that and we might want to check to see if it is happening.
This discussion has been very very enlightening to me.
But what would you do with that information? Use it to decide whether or not a teacher keeps his job? This is the point.
Everyone knows that students ought to feel safe and comfortable in a classroom and obviously would make a favorable report of such. However, safe and comfortable experiences do not always mean students are learning. This is yet another reason why student feedback should not be utilized as a factor in evaluation. A trained observer can certainly see how children are being treated.
Those who do not feel safe and comfortable, of course, should be heard, and a good administrator needs to be on top of this to correct the situation or take steps to begin investigating for misconduct.
The point is that children are not emotionally equipped to evaluate the quality of teaching. Teaching is not a popularity contest–it’s an act of engaging students and guiding their learning processes so they may become independent thinkers, an act that requires a sophisticated skill-set that is beyond the ken of those who have no experience as teachers themselves. This group would include children.
It appears you are constantly trying to find fault with teachers when it comes to their perceptions of students–always trying to uncover some phantom “evidence of a lack of respect” that unfairly colors the entire profession. There is good and bad in every profession, but it seems you would suggest that teachers are emotional abusive people who need children to like them in order for them to keep their jobs. I sincerely hope you’ve never witnessed abuse by a teacher. If so, I am terribly sorry for that, but know that the majority of teachers care deeply about the well-being of each student as I’m sure you do in your own teaching capacity.
To even suggest that my argument here is that “teachers should not care how their students feel” is wholly disheartening to me. Yesterday, I spent more than half of my very brief preparation time–on a day where I’m so busy, I cannot even use the bathroom–counseling a child who was experiencing uncontrollable anxiety from a home situation. (The guidance counselor was not in the building.) When I see your words insinuating that I am suggesting that students’ feelings do not matter, I do not take it very well. So whatever it is you learned, I urge you to be cautious before placing any labels on anyone.
Once again I am suggesting that we ask the students about the quality of their relationship with the teacher, not that we ask them about the quality of the teaching being done.
Your second point confuses me. Where did I suggest that you are arguing that “teachers should not care how their students feel”? What I think I am arguing is that teachers who do not care about how their students feel about what happens in the classroom should not be teachers. As for the emotionally abusive statement, I have no idea where that comes from.
Finally, I don’t believe that your position is that “students’ feelings do not matter”, I think your position is that they do not matter when it comes to issues of employment. What is important in issues of employment is the opinion of the classroom observer about the students feelings. Is this incorrect?
“Once again I am suggesting that we ask the students about the quality of their relationship with the teacher, not that we ask them about the quality of the teaching being done.”
TE, I’ll let you answer that one with your own words:
teachingeconomist
June 3, 2013 at 11:44 pm
“I am reacting to the notion that students have nothing of value to say about how well they are being taught.”
Seems your earlier quote explains a reaction to a notion that students should not be allowed to comment on how well they are being taught–your reaction is in opposition to this notion. Now then, isn’t “how well they are taught” the same thing as “the quality of teaching?” Are you going to deny that you have just contradicted your earlier statement? Perhaps you are grasping at straws now to continually get a reaction while changing your argument. Either you think they are responsible for evaluating teacher quality or you don’t. By flipping your commentary, it appears your argument is one of desperation to prove SOMETHING, but just what, even you do not seem to know.
I’m pretty much done with this. You may continue responding if you like by rephrasing my words and then asking me if your interpretation is correct if you’d like, but I feel I’ve made my point a thousand times over.
I agree that we are done here. It has been very enlightening.
And hopefully states will look back and cautiously NOT take federal money for education, nor fall for legislation with catchy titles.
Tenure is now a relic of the past. There is no more due process. Any teacher rated “ineffective” two consecutive years will receive a “hearing” before a kangaroo court where you are guilty until proven innocent. The accused educator must prove to the hearing officer that he or she is an effective teacher. In the past the burden of proof was on the Dept. of Education to document and prove you were an unsatisfactory teacher.
There never was tenure for K-12 teachers. Due process rights, yes, and as you note now up in a puff of smoke that is the smoke part of the phrase “smoke and mirrors”.
These deforms haven’t quite arrived to Missouri but the edudeformers are trying very hard to bring “smoke and mirrors” education to Missouri. And when I try to warn educators here most think I’m crazy. (“I know I am but what are you?” is my response.
As with every single one of these reforms, it could be good or it could be bad. A teacher evaluation given by the teacher in her own class, based on the level of comfort that everyone feels to inform the teacher is fine. A systematic methodology to give all students teacher evaluations won’t work because of differences in subject matter, class size, demographics, location, economics, personalities, willingess and best of all – developmental readiness of the child.
We all need to agree on the fact that children are simply not miniature adults just waiting for their bodies to catch up to their fully-developed brains. Why have we given up on children this way?
I certainly agree that you should ask an eighteen year old different questions from an eight year old.
We just had to have students do a pilot survey of the school counselors. The questions were identical for the students, parents and faculty (I saw all three). The survey used a lot of jargon and the kids didn’t really understand it. As a matter of fact, I didn’t really understand a couple of the questions.
Now, next year I will be evaluated by BOTH teachers and students. It’s mandatory in the state of Utah beginning next year. As a matter of fact, the UEA (NEA affiliate) has been raving about how wonderful this will be.
Even our severe special ed teacher must have his students do this survey. Many of them are unable to read. How’s that supposed to work?
Ooops. I meant that all teachers in Utah will be evaluated by BOTH parents and students.
My children thought the “school climate” survey was about the weather.
Sometimes PHd’s forget that the rest of the world just is a little bit more down to earth.
Here I am also speaking as the parent of two former and one current public school students.
This makes me sick! Many of you as “good little” Educators are trying to analyze this “reform” evaluation as if there was any kind of “value” or “fairness” to it!
Let’s take a look at the “true purpose” of the evaluation system from a logical standpoint:
1) Teachers are to be “evaluated” by a mathematical formula that is based on flawed statistics that will eliminate “good” teachers as well as “bad” teachers but mainly teachers with experience or teachers making higher salaries. That is, these flawed statistics will catch up to you sooner or later! The new Teacher (low paid) will have time for the “scores” to determine “student growth” so will remain, for awhile!
2) Teachers are to be “evaluated” by students. Does this really make any logical sense? Who will be affected most by this criteria? Will it be the young perky fun teacher or the older experienced “no-nonsense” higher paid teacher? Do you really think that students can determine the value of a teacher or their actual gain in learning?
3) Cutting school budgets, Public schools forced to pay for charter school attendance, vouchers and virtual schools will put tremendous pressure on Administrators to reduce their budgets to sustain. Do you think this might put any pressure on a Principal to possibly rank an experienced teacher down a notch to save some money by eliminating the higher paid teacher?
Sure this will eventually eliminate what we now know as Public Education. Do any politicians or 1%’ers have their children in Publics? Do you think they care? This will reduce the cost of Public Education; this will also solve the pension problem for States. Since States can’t eliminate the Pension System they can simply eliminate the number of people eligible to receive a pension! All the while the corporations are collecting their huge profits.
I think asking students about their experiences in a class does make logical sense.
If I can quote from an earlier posting of Dr. Ravitch:
Recently my American Studies students (a double period class that integrates American literature and U.S. History) evaluated how the class was going so far after the first 9 week grading period. “I love this class” appeared on several papers. “You can definitely tell you enjoy teaching this class” wrote one student. “You really know your stuff. I’m excited to have a teacher who loves history so much” wrote another. “I appreciate your passion in this class. I come in here every day, and I learn” stated another student. I have a whole file bulging with student evaluations, but one comment has really stuck with me: “A very good teacher, the kind of teacher that makes it worth coming to school.” No standardized test can ever measure the impact of the Mrs. Ratliffs of the world.
These students are praising the work of a 45 year veteran teacher.
The entry is here: https://dianeravitch.net/2013/06/02/mrs-ratliff-lives/
This one example is from a teacher asking students for comments. Nothing wrong with that and a good practice.
It is no where near the same as asking a 3rd grader to rate a teacher and that rating determining the teachers job. Where are you coming from with this nonsense?
What about a twelfth grader?
Many here argue that teaching is in part a function of the relationship that a teacher builds with the student. Asking students about that relationship seems reasonable, and would likely be productively added to a portfolio of measures used to evaluate a teachers effectiveness.
Older students certainly can come to valuable conclusions about the effectiveness of a teacher. My preference would be that students would be asked about teachers early in the year after they have had classes with them. That would give them more time to evaluate the class and see how well prepared they are in their current classes.
What about having only economy students rate their teachers?
It is true that some students opinions should be taken into consideration. This is part of the evaluation process that is done by the Principal of the school. It is important to be involved with the school, students and parents. This involvement is part of the evaluation by a person that knows the students and the teacher not just some survey from possible school negative students.
I think you are reasoning from inside your box!
My University has required my students to evaluate my performance for every course I have taught for the last 20 + years. It is part of the information they use to evaluate my performance, as are student exit interviews of graduating seniors.
It is good to see that you believe there is a place for student opinions in evaluation, but I would hesitate to discount the opinions of “possible school negative students”. If we don’t listen to those students, how can we ever turn them into school positive students?
As I stated previously, these opinions are “used” but in perspective.
You are back in your box again, only thinking how these evaluations affect you not thinking about how these evaluations may affect a teacher of remedial students in Newark!
I have my students do surveys at the end of every year. Their biggest complaint? I won’t let them chew gum.
But a survey where I ask open-ended questions looking for ways to improve and a bubble sheet of yes/no answers are VERY different.
And there’s a vast difference, TE, between university students and 8th graders. I’m really concerned with these “evaluations” will do to my career in the future. I love the kids and try to make good connections, but we also work hard, and if the evaluation is right after their first-ever essay test, I expect I’ll be scored fairly low.
Is there a vast difference between a twelfth grade student and a university student?
Actually, there is, TE. 12th graders still live at home and still have some thoughts as teenagers. University students are generally more mature, often live on their own, and are often several years older than 12th graders. Several studies have shown that people’s brains change a lot in their teen years, and don’t achieve full maturity until 22 to 25. In maturity and brain development, there’s a huge difference between 18 and 22.
And even if you argue that 12th graders should evaluate their teachers, where do you draw the line? High school? Middle school? Elementary school? Preschool? Severely disabled students who may not even be able to read well? ALL of those will rate teachers starting in Utah next year.
Tim, I would take the frustration you feel and try to recruit others to start a campaign to make this public. Facebook has tons of groups. Find one in your State. Talk to parents and teachers! Make this known to those around you!
I work with many teachers who are SO FRUSTRATED but leave it at that! I am writing and continue to write letters within my own district as a parent, to administration, to the papers, etc. This has become a daily part of my life because, like you, I agree this will end Public Education as we know it. Simply sitting around and debating the merits of each and every “reform” is good to understand the counter-arguments, but without action it is useless. We need to put out as much truth as possible to counter the “positive propaganda” has inundated the uninformed!
Those of us who “know the real deal” need to start recruiting people and mobilizing. Otherwise, we will be the the former educators sitting around lamenting about “the way it was!”
Thank you, been there done that and still trying, including letters to politicians, Education “Experts”, Newspaper columnists.
Most Teachers are consumed by the new “reforms” and are trying to keep their heads above water. One of the ALEC tactics is to overwhelm with data and push deadlines before anyone can analyze the information.
Hang in there. When parents wake up, we will have reinforcements.
Well, it sounds better than the raw deal we’ve gotten in Syracuse. Our student surveys start in Kindergarten, with 40 questions, and goes up to 127 questions in middle school. And in middle school, some students will have to take 3 surveys for a variety of courses, since every teacher ( including phys ed) need to be evaluated. But in elementary our stupid district has yet to figure out that there are special education and ESL teachers, who are not part of the survey, but still need to find 6% of their rating to fill in. Also, with the evaluation, neither the special education nor the ESL teachers are responsible for any students, but the classroom teachers are being evaluated for students they don’t teach. Go figure!
Many times students have come back to visit and said something such as “I thought you were too tough when I was in your class, but now I am so glad because I am a much better writer than so many other students in my high school class.” If they had evaluated me when they were in my class, the evaluation would probably have been negative, but would that evaluaion have been accurate?
I agree that it would be best to ask the students after they have left a class and have a bit more context.