I try to write clearly, because I understand that words matter.
In the aftermath of the terrible tragedy at Newtown, I posted dozens of statements from readers expressing their sorrow and shock and sympathy.
I wrote a tribute to the principal for her valor as an educator and a courageous person devoted to her students.
The next day, as I learned more about the other five members of the staff who died that day, I wrote a tribute to them, called “Hero Teachers of Newtown.” I expressed my hope that what happened in Newtown would quiet those who had been saying that unions and tenure were bad, since the teachers belonged to a union and some had tenure.
This statement led to a barrage of complaints that I had “politicized” the tragedy by referring to the fact that the staff at Newtown belonged to a union. Some said I insulted teachers who don’t belong to unions, which frankly was far-fetched. The outrage began with a tweet from a VP at Teach for America, who demanded that i retract the post. He probably thought I was criticizing TFA. I was not. The post did not mention TFA. (A number of TFA alums contacted me to let me know they did not agree with the VP.)
Critics claimed in some comments and posts on other blogs that anyone who tried to draw a lesson from the tragedy was politicizing it.
This is bizarre.
We now are having a national conversation about gun control and mental health. People are rightly asking how to change the laws to keep assault weapons out of the hands of non-law enforcement personnel. Others are wondering what might be done to intervene to help those with mental problems. Some ask how schools might be made more secure to protect them from deranged intruders.
They are trying to draw lessons from what happened. They are not politicizing the tragedy. They are trying to learn from it.
Teachers, at least all those I know, have reacted with sorrow for the children and their colleagues. Some have said that they felt proud to be a teacher because now the public understands that they are first responders to the needs of their students and their communities. Let’s hope the public doesn’t forget.
No one has said that only union teachers would react as the teachers at the Sandy Hook Elementary School did. Certainly I did not. I believe that those who teach are committed to help, educate, and protect children; that’s an essential part of their job.
The point I was making is that it is time to stop the attacks on teachers and on our public schools. This is not the time or place to document the frequency and inaccuracy of these attacks, though I promise to do so in the future. The narrative of “bad teachers” has been hurtful and demoralizing to many teachers.
It is time to respect teachers and the teaching profession.
It is time to grieve for the children and their educators.
And, yes, I hope we learn and draw lessons from this tragedy.
Diane Ravitch's blog 
You don’t need to clarify your point. Those who were (are) attacking you understand your point perfectly. That’s why they need to attack.
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Thank you.
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Having tweeted in defense of your piece, I received tweets from several TFA people, claiming that David Rosenberg’s attack on your piece was completely correct, that your piece was all sorts of horrible, etc. Oh, and that they were simply expressing their personal opinions. One actually implied strongly that he had no connection to TFA and stated that he had several union teachers in his family, but was calling ’em as he saw ’em. Only problem? He had it in his Twitter profile that he is in fact TFA. As was the woman who first replied to my comments about Mr. Rosenberg, and then acted like she had no idea what I was talking about, etc.
I wouldn’t want to generalize about all TFA officers, employees, or volunteers based on this tiny sample. But it seems very odd indeed that they’re all suddenly acting as “private citizens” when going on the warpath to attack you, Diane, and defend an organization that was never mentioned in your piece.
I’d love to see what they had to say if a union teacher tried that defense. Of course, in my case, I don’t have to claim I’m acting as a “private citizen” who just happens to be a unionized teacher. Because I’m NOT a member of any union and haven’t been since late 2006. And the two times I really need help from my union, I didn’t get it. I should be vehemently anti-teachers unions, based on my limited personal experience, but am not.
Why not? Because my individual experience is not relevant to the larger questions of why teachers unions arose, were necessary, and remain essential for democracy.
Have there been “bad” people at the head of some unions, professional, industrial, or otherwise? Of course. Capitalism ensures corruption because of the potential of power and money to make those in charge dangle bribes to gain control of workers movements, and the temptations of a corrupt capitalist system to simply be too much for mere humans to resist, even if no one is trying to lead them astray. Organized crime saw unions as an easy way to make money and did a pretty good job of exploiting that opportunity in some instances. And yet, when we look at the history of labor and capitalism, the alternatives to NOT unionizing are far uglier.
Will US labor (including teachers) regain full control of unions, find ways to make them work in the best interests of both those they represent and the “customers” of the work (those who buy manufactured goods, benefit from janitorial services, health care, teaching, etc.)? Maybe. But until the time comes when capital and management decide to let humanistic values trump greed, it’s going to be hard for those most readily exploited by unbridled capitalism and market forces to act more purely themselves. This is at least a two-way street (three-way, in my view, if you count the public), and there aren’t a lot of saints out there. Putting all the blame on UNIONS, particularly public service workers who don’t happen to be police officers or fire fighters is the latest tactic by big capital and its right wing servants. And while that approach should be completely transparent to anyone without a vested interest in profiting from exploiting teachers, nurses, etc., at this point, there are far too many receptive ears to that pitch.
And so, much as I’d love to live in a dream world where everyone was treated with respect, I don’t. And so, I will remain a supporter of teachers unions and public education, EVEN AS I REMAIN A CRITIC OF BOTH, but from the left.
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Thanks, Michael. Unlike you, I have never been a union member. But in my study of U.S. history, I learned how important unions were in creating a middle class and in giving workers decent conditions and wages. They have been central to social progress in America. As they shrink, we will see more hourly workers without benefit, without voice, without representation, living just above or below the poverty line.
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Yes, the history of the labor movement has a great deal to teach us. Unfortunately, many ed deformers and their allies know only what it’s convenient for them to know (or have been taught), and that ignorance, willful or otherwise, allows them to make a lot of anti-union statements that simply don’t hold up. We must never forget that public school teachers in this country were women in the early days, and their working conditions were unconscionably bad, consistent with the way factory laborers and many others were treated in the bad old, pre-union days.
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No need to defend your point. It was fully understood by those working in the ranks of education. “Politicizing the issue” is only used when one’s own stance is being threatened by reality.
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The funny (not ha ha) thing is that had any of those teachers who died protecting their students been TFA members, do you think for one second that TFA wouldn’t be trumpeting that far and wide and loudly?
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Of course, you’re completely correct.
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One can always count on hearing reflexive wailing, whining and playing the “victim card” when facts are cited to contradict the “failing public schools” and “union thug” narrative of the “reformers” (lots of quotes, but I think correctly employed). It is a fact that the teacher-heroes of Newtown were union, career, professional public school teachers. If that fact is somehow inconvenient to corporatist shills, it does not mitigate reality. To paraphrase The Bard, “methinks they doth protest too much.”
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Your “corporatist shills” is just as bad as ‘ “union thug’ “. SOME teachers are heroic, in both private and public schools. SOME teachers are lazy and ignorant in both private and public schools. SOME of the latter are not dismissed because of union protection in some districts. SOMETIMES in this blog no one will admit that SOME public schools have problems as well as that SOME privately managed charter schools work very well. In addition, public sector unions are continually conflated with private sector unions. Unions that are part of government service have additional political responsibilities. SOMETIMES public unionized schools provide excellent service, but SOMETIMES they do not. In NOT every case does union=good or private=bad.
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Can’t speak for anyone else, Harlan, but I repeatedly criticize public schools, bad teaching, insane educational policies, etc., and take flak for so doing from a number of union members who either accuse me of being a shill for corporatists and a closet teacher-basher myself, or believe I’m out of line for washing “dirty laundry” in public. To which I answer, just as I do those who defend the corporatists, profiteers,and privatizers (why add any epithets, when those are all pretty dirty words to me?), take a flying leap at a rolling donut (that’s if I’m feeling polite).
So here’s one critic of both sides. But right now, with unions and teachers and public education under assault from the RIGHT, I’m standing with the, ahem, so-called status quo, pretty much for the same reason that I voted for Obama this time, despite knowing that he’s far from the great progressive I hoped he was in 2008: because I feel there’s a far better chance of making positive change without the totally anti-progressives in charge. Won’t stop me from criticizing bad teaching, bad administrating, bad books, bad programs, bad policies, etc.
But never mistake me for a education deform advocate. I’ll never swallow the voucher/charter Kool-Ade, the high-stakes testing mania, the value-added malarkey, or the phony accountability nonsense. You’ll never hear me mouth the “No excuses!” mantra, or support the notion that untrained “teachers” who plan to hang around for two years before moving on the B-school, law school, or the Broad Academy are a good bargain for high-needs schools or the children in them.
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Glad to hear it MPG.
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Thank you. There are good and bad in all areas. Companies, Charter Schools, Public Schools, and Unions all have to work together to weed out the bad and improve education for all students. There is room for union and non-union schools. It’s a shame unions are needed at all. If society could trust districts and companies to provide fair wages, good conditions, fair working conditions, fair processes, we wouldn’t need unions at all. But that is an ideal.
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It’s possible the “national conversation about gun control and mental health” could turn into an international conversation about a curriculum for values education, peace, non-violence, emotional literacy, social intelligence and personal wellbeing. Education has the potential and the power to transform people and communities.
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Not alone it doesn’t. Not if you don’t also address (in no particular order) poverty, unemployment, gun control, hunger, mental health, early childhood development, neo-natal care, parenting assistance, drugs and alcohol, and general inequality (race, class, sex, etc.).
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Agreed.
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Michael Paul,
I’m in accord with everything you said, right down to being a former union member who should be their biggest critic. Unions are all about our individual experience not taking precedence over the collective intention. The collective intention is rarely the same as the collective reality, but that doesn’t mean we abandon the intention.
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Thanks. I’m glad but not surprised to discover others who’ve shared my experiences and hold similar views despite not having had the best outcomes from being in a union.
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In response to the situation, people do need to speak out.
Across the river in Virginia, in reaction to the massacre, some delegates and senators want to force schools to have armed personnel on site.
The governor just proposed a budget that cuts $1.5 million from mental health and would spend $15 million for merit pay for teachers. It would be appropriate to use the shootings in Sandy Hook as an example not to cut mental health spending. (also, I imagine that the vast majority of VA public school teachers would rather see $15 million spent on mental health rather than (yet another to fail) merit pay system.
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Corporate “reformer” Policy 101: attack by any means of exaggeration or prevarication in order to discredit any opponents.
This blog has caught the “reformers” attention. By eliciting the “truths” and exposing the “lies” , this blog has become a threat to the “reformers”.
Expect many more “attacks” and hopefully, many more “victories”!
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I thought The Baltimore Sun’s editorial board nicely expressed what we all know has been going on vis-à-vis the profession of public school teachers and what constantly streams out of the mouths of the rabid members of the TFA cult, M. Rhee, and others of that ilk. Your critics found themselves in a highly defensive position because, as you pointed out to them, this deeply tragic incident profoundly challenged the negative narrative they have been working so very hard to spread.
http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2012-12-18/news/bs-ed-educators-20121218_1_special-education-teacher-public-education-public-employees
“The heroes of Newtown: Our view: The strength and courage of teachers and school staff — the kind of public employees so often scorned of late — are the revelation of Sandy Hook…
“Teachers and other public school employees deserve more respect than to be vilified as lazy, overpaid union thugs, or any of the other various taunts that have been hurled their way in recent years. In some states, they are been stripped of bargaining rights. Often, they are cited as a threat to public education and not its chief asset.
“We adopt standardized testing of students, in part, because we don’t trust that teachers are doing their best. Too often, we judge them harshly for not achieving the near-impossible: creating a model citizenry from the imperfect products that show up at their doorstep.
“Next time we discuss the state of education, let us also recall those images of teachers leading children out of harm’s way in Newtown or those half-dozen adults who died in the line of duty. Public educators deserve our respect, not just for what happened in Sandy Hook but for their extraordinary, daily devotion to the education, health and welfare of the next generation.”
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Diane and Friends,
Your blog has been a crucial forum for educators to process this tragedy of unfathomable depths and sorrow for all of us, as mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, grandparents, neighbors, communities… and yes… as teachers.
Never once have I thought of the senseless loss of these beautiful young children and their teachers as union, non-union, fair share… not one molecule of my sorrow has been attached to a union/non-union label.
We are all connected to the Connecticut community of Newtown as we grapple with what, why, how… and this must never, ever happen again. These blogs have been about humanity in the depths of despair, this blog has been about all teachers, being on the front line every minute of every day with our children. This is about sharing a profession that has love at its core, every minute of every day, week after week, month after month, year after year.
The country lifted and supported its first responders after 9/11… teachers have become first responders today, we are lifting each other up in our grief.
It is all about the children, it is all about their civil right to a childhood safe from harm and violence, it is about never again witnessing our kids’ young lives being taken at point blank range, in the blink of an eye…
Union or non-union, Teachers laid down their lives for their students… our children… out of love, just as their parents would.
These are the women and men who take our children from our parents’ arms each morning, guide them, support them, challenge them, protect them… and teach them.
This is called being a Teacher.
This is an honorable profession.
And in 29 years of being a member of this honorable profession, I have never witnessed such a senseless barrage of criticism and vitriolic attacks leveraged against all of us…
It has to stop.
The violence has to stop.
The shootings have to stop.
And together… we have to figure a road out of here to a better tomorrow…
For our children, for their future… for humanity.
And that is what this blog is about.
Maureen Reedy
Parent & 29 year Teacher
Columbus, Ohio
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How eloquent and moving! Thank you.
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Dianne, bless you for your courage and integrity, and for creating a forum for voices that are otherwise not heard. What you wrote was not only appropriate but much needed.
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It is simple fact that the heroes of Newtown were career, professional, union public school teachers. That objective truth does not fit the prevailing narrative of the corporatist profiteers who demonize public school teachers and their unions at every turn. Whenever reality contradicts their anti-teacher, anti-union, anti-public schools agenda, one can count on the reformers to wail, whine and pull out their “victim card.” Self-serving ropaganda cannot be allowed to mitigate reality.
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Diane, those attacks are not sincere. The so-called “reformers” are following a script, and part of their script is to attack you most ferociously, since you have the strongest voice.
The script goes like this: Wide-eyed, deny that you have ever engaged in or have ever even been aware of any teacher-bashing. Then attack all discussion of Sandy Hook teachers that involves the context of teacher-bashing as “exploitation.” All of them are following the script and none of them are doing it honestly or sincerely.
Was the Baltimore Sun editorial board exploiting and politicizing the tragedy in saying the exact same thing that you and many others have?
From the Baltimore Sun editorial: “Teachers and other public school employees deserve more respect than to be vilified as lazy, overpaid union thugs, or any of the other various taunts that have been hurled their way in… recent years. In some states, they are been stripped of bargaining rights. Often, they are cited as a threat to public education and not its chief asset.
“We adopt standardized testing of students, in part, because we don’t trust that teachers are doing their best. Too often, we judge them harshly for not achieving the near-impossible: creating a model citizenry from the imperfect products that show up at their doorstep.
“Next time we discuss the state of education, let us also recall those images of teachers leading children out of harm’s way in Newtown or those half-dozen adults who died in the line of duty. Public educators deserve our respect, not just for what happened in Sandy Hook but for their extraordinary, daily devotion to the education, health and welfare of the next generation.”
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/bs-ed-educators-20121218,0,6383452.story
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Hear, hear!
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The believers in simple fixes are going to see the world as black and white. All our problems are due to bad teachers and bad schools and the bad unions and pundits who support them. And anything Diane says will just put her in the camp of the “evil-doers” in their simple minds. This is entirely predictable. I see that Bill Gates is calling, in a recent book review, for value-added measurement of college professors and standardized tests of college students.The assault on teachers has just begun, and plans are afoot for expanding the field of battle beyond K-12. What noble spectacle–Gates and Bloomberg and Rhee and Jeb Bush riding into battle, their shields emblazoned with the image of the true cross!
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The only way we can make sense of such a senseless event is change the status quo to make sure it is not going to happen again! Being a teacher and the father of a six year old, it’s the only way I can halfway deal with that.
The ones claiming politicization are the ones looking to politicize the issue. They see the word “union” and instantly think there’s an angle there. I am proud of those teachers at Sandy Hook, and their administrators who gave the ultimate sacrifice for their kids, and those that were prepared to, and thankfully did not have to. Saying they were union members does not politicize it, it merely points out that these union members, like 99.9% of them, love their kids and go beyond any contract to ensure their safety and learning.
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Keep doing what you’re doing Dr. Ravitch. I love your blog.
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Behind all the latest union bashing effort is the clear accusation that unionized teachers are just looking out for their own self interest at the expense of improving education. Millions of people watched “Waiting for Superman” that famously characterized unionized teachers as self interested, incompetent and uninterested in the needs of students. The message was crystal clear. We can’t make our schools better because of the teacher unions. Unionized teachers only care about protecting their own.
Reminding us of the unswerving dedication of teachers to their students in the face of a crisis is not politicizing. On the contrary, it is saying out loud what needs to be said: Teachers care deeply about students and put students first, before their own needs, even before their own lives.
My experience with unions is that while not perfect, on the whole the process of teachers advocating for both a liveable career and workable teaching conditions improves our schools and the profession in absolutely crucial ways. Teachers intimately know what matters in a classroom. Teachers understand the absolute joy of witnessing strong learning taking place in a nurturing environment. And, in the face of a crisis, just like parents, teachers will defend their students with their lives.
The current efforts of ed reformers to end public schools, reduce education to test prep, limit a teacher’s value to performance data, while engineering end runs around collective bargaining for teachers to reduce costs and increase their unchallenged decision making power are an ugly and demeaning insult to our profession.
Every teacher I know, unionized or not, wants this simple thing: to be able to earn a respectable, modest income doing the work they love under workable conditions and for one reason: to help all of their students get the best education humanly possible.
Thank you, Diane, for standing up for all teachers.
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Thanks, Diane. The idea that we should not learn lessons from tragedies is so clearly bizarre that one suspects there is politics behind the complaints. Of course.
They were, take note, all women too–which could be construed as an attack on men?
They should be ashamed of themselves for taking their time to criticize YOU for honoring those who lost their lives.
When people become that irrational t’s best to ignore them. But thanks for trying to educate even them
Deb
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To be attacked by TFA-bots is probably the highest form of flattery one can receive. Congratulations, Diane
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Diane, like everyone else I have been thinking about this for the past week. There is another angle that I am waiting to see evolve. Our schools are often the nexus for treating not only children with learning disabilities but behavioral disabilities as well since the two so often go hand in hand. From my initial reading Adam Lanza was removed from school and home schooled by his mother. By doing this she might have cut off one of the lifelines to getting better mental health services for her child. She most certainly cut off her interaction with other adults who could have provided knowledgeable advice and support, never mind school based services. I know as educators everything can boil down to issues about education, but our schools are strapped for cash and we rely on them for so much more than education. This is an issue that has not been addressed. Like I said, I am waiting for this to unfold and to learn more and I’m afraid when it does the conversation might become even more “politicized.”
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Diane.
Thank you for what I feel should have really been an unnecessary response.
The TFA VP’s comment started it all. What is telling is how the leadership of TFA is in their own protectionist world, without even thinking of the countless numbers of teachers (many TFA corps members included) and students in poor schools who are in danger of gunshots daily.
The backlash from his “grunts” is well deserved.
Carefully I tread…..I wonder how TFA would have “not politicized” something like this if it were Corp Members you spoke of.
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Diane,
You do write clearly. Your words do matter. Where else in the media have teachers been able to voice their thoughts and concerns and actually given respect? You allow voices to be heard and I thank you for continuing to allow us, your guests, into your living room. Your home has become our home and for so many of us who care for children, we are most grateful.
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Do not back down. You have a right to express your opinion just like everyone else. People are looking for any way to distract from your message because your message is true.
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I had a very similar response to my CBC radio broadcast about Newtown two days ago:
http://goo.gl/9mxal
At least I’m in good company, Diane.
Best,
Joel Westheimer
@joelwestheimer
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How are unions and tenure relevant to the school shootings? Those drawing lessons about gun control and mental health are dealing with issues directly related to the “why” behind the shootings. How do unions or tenure make the likelihood of future shootings more or less?
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Well, there are a couple of possibilities here, “EdEd.” 1) You’re not bothering to check back to the original post Diane made that set off the TFA mob; 2) you did check back, but are a very poor reader; 3) you’re being intentionally dense; 4) you really ARE dense; 5) you’re part of the TFA or a related group or an astroturfer, etc.; 6) a combination of these.
Don’t expect you to come clean, but if it’s #4, let me try to enlighten you: there has been a concerted attack on public school teachers and their unions over the last several decades that has been growing exponentially over the last ten years or so thanks in no small part to funding from anti-public school groups and very wealthy individuals. Motives for their attacks range from a desire to turn public education into a privatized, for-profit enterprise that puts money into their pockets; a desire to gain control over what may be taught and done in public s chools; a specific political, social, and/or religious agenda they wish to ensure is promulgated in as many places as possible, particularly places that court rulings and the Constitution of the United States have heretofore made difficult to reach.
A major piece of the attack is focused upon unions, with the general, though unsupported assertion that teachers who are unionized are lazy and don’t care about kids, and that doing away with unions, tenure, seniority, etc., would be a major breakthrough for improving American education.
[is any of this starting to resonate, Ed?]
So, if you’re still following me, we have a vicious physical attack on a public school with unionized teachers, several of whom risk their lives to try to protect the children and/or disarm/disable/stop the shooter. Some live, several die in the line of fire.
Diane Ravitch, among others, makes note of this fact. And TFA and its minions go berserk, calling her post “reprehensible, demanding that it be retracted, and accusing her of politicizing a tragedy. Note well that in that post, she never mentions or hints at TFA or anyone in TFA.
Have the scales fallen from your eyes? Because your final question above is, of course, meaningless, and it indicates utter lack of comprehension of Diane’s blog piece or very intentional deflection of what the issues are here. I suspect that’s not an accident on your part.
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It’s enlightened, considerate responses like this that are sure to influence things in your favor.
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Oh, Wilbert: people like you and EdEd aren’t “winnable” because you come in with such an obvious agenda. Like David from TFA who started this whole thing. Like the three TFA members who attacked me on Twitter. No one is fooled by the game, the sudden call for civility after Diane’s perfectly civil post is called, “Reprehensible” and demands are made that it be retracted.
Go try that on some naive child who can’t see what’s going on. On veterans of the education and culture wars, it’s a pathetic tactic that will never fool us.
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Michael, your comments sound very paranoid. What agenda do you suppose I come to you with? What do you suppose my stance is on various educational topics?
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In honor of the holiday season, would you like me to buy you a fainting couch?
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Michael,
Do you really expect me to engage with you professionally when you use a disrespectful and sarcastic tone? Do you consider yourself a professional, and if so do you know of other fields where professionals engage each other by calling each other “dense” in professional discussions?
Addressing your points, I’m with you on the attack on public education. I don’t hate every reform attempt of the past 10 years, such as RtI, as I think there have been some good advances in the field. However, I hear what you’re saying, and agree with many of your points.
My specific response was about this particular school shooting. I’m not against Diane (or anyone else) mentioning that victims were members of a union no more than I’d be against mentioning that they were part of a social club or church, as I think we are taking time to remember those lost, including the details of their life. However, to use this situation as support for OR AGAINST unions or tenure would be inappropriate, as nothing related to this incident was caused because of unions, tenure, or really anything else related to public education.
More broadly, Michael, and related to my initial point of disrespect, I’d urge you and others who are against privatization (including Diane Ravitch) to reconsider your approach to public discourse about the topics you’re passionate about. If you are truly passionate about education, and want others to see your perspective, it will be important to engage in respectful and professional conversation. I know you (and many others) have been hurt and offended by some corporate reformers, but please understand that that group of folks is very small, and the rest of us are simply educators – like you – who are trying to work out way through these issues.
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One thing I’ve learned on this blog is that every single post must be construed in the context of the ongoing war against pro-charter, anti-union education reformers. You can’t be a neutral or curious observer. With very, very rare exceptions (such as a recent post endorsing the idea of a “bar exam” for teachers), if you express anything other than total agreement with something Ms. Ravitch writes, you’re (1) uninformed, (2) an agent of the corporate ed reformers, or (3) both. Usually it’s #3.
In fairness, I suppose there may be many pro-ed reform web sites with the same vibe. And to her credit, Ms. Ravitch doesn’t do much if any censoring. But bottom line, this is a pep rally, not a debate.
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I’m trying to interpret your comments – I hear you saying that, on this site, you feel that it’s more a “pep rally, not a debate.” Are you supportive of that, or do you feel that healthy, respectful conversation leading toward consensus would be more helpful?
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This particular thread is in response to an out-of-left (or perhaps right-) field attack on a post Diane made by, initially, a bunch of people who work for TFA. This is not unlike what happens when someone writes anything about Khan Academy or Sal Khan that isn’t full of worshipful praise, or about Scientology, for that matter. What makes this particular incident so strange is that no names were mentioned or hinted at in the original post.
Sorry, but this isn’t a case of “both sides do it, too.” This is a matter of a programmatic attack by an organization that has become so warped that they are now conducting PREEMPTIVE strikes on perceived criticism that isn’t in fact criticism of them. Guilty consciences? Egomania? Paranoia? What ever it is, they acted badly and got called out for it. Their response? More ridiculous behavior.
Sorry that some people here are so put off by a vigorous defense. And sorry, too, that some people think that there MAY be “the same vibe” on pro-deform sites. If you only THINK there MAY be, you apparently have not spent time on any of them. And you can’t seem to recognize what happened with the Twitter kerfluffle that was started by a TFA OFFICER.
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“And sorry, too, that some people think that there MAY be “the same vibe” on pro-deform sites. If you only THINK there MAY be, you apparently have not spent time on any of them.”
Correct.
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If that is your opinion…why would you want to attend our pep rallies everyday?
Start your own blog and move on.
By the way identify your profession, training, experiences….how are you an expert on education children? What do you do everyday to work directly with children, IF you do?
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Ed Ed — I’m cranky by nature, and not particularly peppy, so I always prefer debates to pep rallies. But I don’t think that you can have a “healthy, respectful conversation” about any political topic of importance, certainly not on the Internet. Almost everyone on every message board is already dug in when the conversation starts. The goal is smackdown.
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“If that is your opinion…why would you want to attend our pep rallies everyday?”
Believe me, I’ve asked myself that before. Maybe it’s just the low urge toward rubbernecking, or like picking at a scab. I do learn things, even if it’s more by observation and inference than instruction. It also reminds me of listening to Rush Limbaugh in the 80s and yelling at the radio, or watching O’Reilly in the early 2000s and yelling at the TV. How can you stand that crap, people would say. I guess I just enjoy agitation.
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Well go back to watching Rush and we will ignore you. And before you go, please detail your experience, subject areas, grade level, setting when educating children.
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Linda, I’m not a teacher or an expert in education. My interest in public education stems from my children, who attend public school in NYC.
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Ed, read your initial comment here. I don’t need to imagine your position on anything else. The comment speaks for itself, and I accorded you all due contempt for it. I’m not here to assuage your feelings any more than you posted what you did to make friends among those who agree with what Diane wrote and are baffled by the TFA assault on her and her post. You claim that *I* sound paranoid: what would you call David. G’s slamming of Diane when TFA was NEVER mentioned or hinted at?
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You might not need to imagine his/her position on anything else, but s/he’s provided it anyway. This is hardly the first time Ed has posted pro-deform talking points and pretended wounded innocence to vigorous responses. There are plenty of good actors amongst the deform crowd.
And to EdEd – my offer to Wilbert is open to you too – do you also need a fainting couch?
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Michael, I’ll take your comment to mean you aren’t interested in respectful discussion. If you’re interested in returning to a relevant point of discussion, please address points I make without making off-topic, derogatory comments.
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Get over yourself…you sound like the typical eduexpert who never taught or who scabbed or slummed for a while and then became a self-serving pompous bloviator. Stay in your circle and you will feel better about yourself.
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Ed
These teachers were union members. Union members all across the nation are now working hand in hand with districts to review, revamp, and renew safety measures in the schools in which we work.
Without our union our seat at the table discussing our student’s safety would be empty. Too many decisions are based on budgetary needs. Many times the union must use their influence to get what’s needed.
Yes, unions and their importance is an important factor than must be addressed in this conversation.
Tenure also is an important factor. Tenure denotes trust, experience and confidence that those with tenure can perform their duties without the threat of losing their jobs without due process. These teachers demonstrated the importance of those 3 tenets, trust, experience and confidence.
I’m with Michael on this one 110%
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Yes, there are some bad teachers. However, they are most of the employees in many school districts. LAUSD has about 33,000 teachers. In a group of that size you will find terrible people as you would in any profession with that many people. The real bad people are administrators. If you looked at the bad apples as a percentage you would find very low ratios in teachers and very high ratios in administrators. We recently presented to the California Assembly Select Committee on Preventing School Districts from going into Receivership, bankruptcy, with 10 year spreadsheets on 20 school districts in California. Did teachers make it so that in 2010-11 over 102,000 students did not come to school everyday which cost in lost revenue about $1.15 billion. This is up from in 2002 when LAUSD had 156,000 more students only 14,500 did not come to school everyday. And this Board of Education has the gall to call themselves the “Reform Board.” I call them the “Deform Board. When I compared the teachers without jobs against the lost students the ratios were within .7%. That makes sense because you do not need employees for students who are not there.
The conversation is not on administrators and on teachers because the Broad, Gates, Walton, HP and others who want to control education with their plan to control everything have placed just last year 47% of the superintendents in medium to large school districts along with many administrators. Think about it, they placed John Deasy as superintendent of LAUSD and he has a phony PHD. When this story breaks while Deasy is superintendent of Price Georges County he quits his job in one week. One week after he quits he is hired by the Gates Foundation. One year after that he is at LAUSD. Before he is voted in as superintendent I called every board members office on Deasys phony PHD and not one board member had put Deasy’s name into Google. I spoke to the issue before the vote and they still voted him in. This is total corruption and a total lack of ethics by administrators not teachers. At LAUSD in their $27 billion Bond Construction Program they are spending 2-3 times the average for construction as all other school districts in L.A. County according to the Jan. 2008 Office of Public School Construction (OPSC) study on school construction costs. The average for L.A. County was about $280/sq.ft. and LAUSD was $700-1,100/sq.ft. Does this make sense and was that teachers work. No, it was administrators and total corruption.
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The accusation that Diane is ‘politicizing’ this issue is fundamentally misguided, for two reasons. First of all, there is already a hot political debate over the role of teachers in educational improvement, and many have attacked the competence and caring of teachers. Second, there is nothing wrong with being political. I am reminded of Bernard Crick’s excellent book In Defense of Politics. Crick’s point is that politics is the way we settle serious conflicts that otherwise might be settled by war and violence.
What Diane did was to use this tragedy as evidence in the ongoing debate. And it is relevant evidence. EdEd, I agree with you that name-calling is counter-productive. But you are quite wrong in saying that the union membership of the martyred teachers is irrelevant. Those attacking teachers as incompetent and selfish have demonized the unions as part of this attack. That these heroic and caring teachers seemed to have believed in the merits of their union does speak volumes, and is relevant. It refutes the idea that those supporting the teacher’s unions are just doing so because they are selfish and don’t care about children.
So Diane’s argument is a rebuttal, and one on point in a very important on-going argument about the future of this country.
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Diane, Those of us who read your blog every day know you were not making any attempt to politicize this tragedy. But lets face it:
POLITICS contributed to the massacre of these sweet innocents.
Politics enabled the NRA to influence legislation that could have protected these children and their teachers’
Politics enabled the murderer to have access to these horrible weapons.
Politics prevented the assault weapons ban from being renewed
Politics enables weapon owners to hold high volume ammunition clips
Politics enables gun shows to operate that exempts background checks
Politics enables the purchasing of assault weapons over the internet
Politics stands in the way to comprehensive mental health services
Politics has place teachers in the cross hairs due to the deform movement
Politics continues to create hurdles for any new discussion on gun control.
Politics allows idiots like Gov Perry to state teachers should carry in their classrooms
Let’s not kid ourselves.. politics is as much to blame for our nation’s sorrows as anything else
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Always enjoy what you have to say.
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Politics is also responsible for the constitution and the existence of public education. As I wrote above, we need to engage in politics effectively, not disparage it.
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Politics should be disparaged when it’s used in evils ways. The Constitution at one time ignored slavery, women’s rights, civil rights, and is now responsible for gun owner’s so called rights.
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Right, and it should be praised when it’s used in beneficial ways—such as creating public schools. If we only look on politics negatively, we can’t accomplish what needs to be done, because it can *only* be done through politics, by building alliances and getting laws changed, and public funds going the right places.
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As you’re likely aware, it’s only “class warfare” when we fight back, and only political when someone on the side of working people stands up for workers, unions, or any group that isn’t particularly powerful. Oh, I know: the teachers unions are SUPER powerful. Which explains why, for about a decade now, the top leaders nationally and in some big cities (thankfully, not Chicago), are tripping over themselves to capitulate to the politicians. Just as have been the leaders of auto workers and many other industrial unions in Michigan and environs, which is why, at least in part, our governor, the self-proclaimed “tough nerd,” suddenly decided to support a lame-duck end run in conjunction with the GOP against unions, workers, teachers and public schools.
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My point is the political *isn’t* the dirty word that those accusing Diane of ‘politicizing’ want to make it. It’s political on both sides. Let’s engage the debate, not use ‘political’ as an epithet.
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I think it’s a safe bet that everyone has an agenda (or two or three), and the common accusation is to say that someone is being “political” as if there are some people who aren’t. As long as someone is pushing (openly or otherwise) for a “side,” a position, a point of view, then s/he’s engaged in a political act (the underlying root, “politik” and has to do with “among others,” “civil,” and, ultimately from “polis” meaning “city.”
So unless you’re a hermit, you’re political. And every decision outside your immediate personal life tends to have a political implication. (Of course, there are individual, personal, psychological and emotional factors at work, so politics alone doesn’t suffice as an analytic tool for human actions, but neither are tools that look strictly at individual interests, motives, behaviors). And weighing in on the current incivil war on teachers and public education is, of course, political.
Whether someone feels that it’s a “dirty” word to say things like that makes no nevermind to me, any more than being told that I have an agenda or suggesting that someone else does. The question is: what’s that agenda? For what are you fighting politically? Or, to make it simple, Which side are you on?
My point was that one of the tools the ruling classes use is to claim that thing are political ONLY when those they exploit fight back. The choice of names and skin-colors in 1950s mathematics textbooks for little kids was political, but because everyone took it for granted that all students in math class were white, were named Bobby and Janey, etc., no one said anything about it, though some people no doubt noticed. Today, we’re told that the Occupy Movement is “class warfare.” As if the oppression and exploitation of those not at or near the top of the economic and political heap wasn’t class warfare, just the natural order of things. You won’t get a “Great Chain of Being” idea from the peons: only from the Church, the King, and the few intellectuals in their pay. Centuries later, we’re still being fed a flavor of that idiocy. But many of us aren’t swallowing it.
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To put this another way, Michael, I am agreeing with you that calling something ‘political’ is a way of trying to shut down debate rather than to answer a valid point. We shouldn’t fall for it because politics is good. It’s another name for Democracy.
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William, I never thought we were disagreeing. I was simply elaborating upon your points and bringing the recent history of Occupy v. the “class warfare” complainers from the plutocracy. 🙂
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To Flerper:
Well I am an educator and the murdered principal, Dawn, was a former colleague and my friend. Things are raw for us here in CT.
This is our sanctuary.
We are abused everywhere else, so forgive me for not having patience for your anti-teacher, anti-union rants.
I need to save all my patience for the 125 twelve and thirteen year olds I am responsible for this year (and for the past 25 years). God bless you and your family.
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I am so sorry for your loss, Linda. Thank you for all you do in support of teachers and their students. Your friends and colleagues in CT have reminded the world of the work that teachers do and I don’t think it will be soon forgotten.
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If something good comes out of this tragic and senseless massacre of innocents, it’s that I believe this will be the incident that truly changes many conversations about both gun violence and public educators for the better (despite TFA and some of the gun extremists and the gasbags like Ann Coulter).
That said, I can only offer my meager condolences. Dawn seems like she was a wonderful person, from what I’ve read about her.
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Regarding the above discussion, I’m starting a new comment – still can’t figure out why comments keep getting shoved to the right and unreadable on my screen.
Anyway, trying to return to a point of neutrality, for the educators here, I believe we owe it to the kids we work with to attempt to work together on positive solutions. I have always found it more helpful to address specific points folks make, as opposed to making interpretive statements about motive and character. If you feel I’m wrong about something, by all means call me out. However, you take us off track when you call names or make interpretive comments far beyond the scope of what’s been said. Michael and others, I don’t presume to know your thoughts on every educational topic simply because of how you’ve worded a post – I expect to the same level of respect.
I’m not sure if there were other outstanding comments/points of disagreement with my previous statements I haven’t addressed. If so, please feel free to point out.
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“we owe it to the kids we work with to attempt to work together on positive solutions”
Maybe this is a news flash to you, but I do that everyday and so do thousands and thousand of unionized and non-unionized public school teachers. What the heck do you think we do all day? We are on the front lines. We see children and adjust day by day, period by period, minute by minute. Maybe you should work in a school so you can become more knowledgeable.
Teaching is a human interaction based upon relationships and developing relationships. I don’t consider them assets and I don’t live for testing and test scores. I find positive solutions every day to academic difficulties, social problems, behavioral issues, family problems; the list is endless. Evidently, you haven’t a clue what we do.
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Linda – what in my comments suggested I don’t think you do that? My comment was related to how we are speaking with each other in this thread – not whether you do that in schools. Could I ask you why you’ve chosen to interpret my comments in the way you have?
I’ve also worked in a number of schools in a number of states over a number of years – I’m quite familiar with the dedication and effort teachers put forth, and could probably count on one hand the number of teachers who aren’t genuinely invested in doing the right thing. Again, what about my comments has indicated otherwise to you?
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I wasn’t referring to your posts within this thread, but the theme of your posts overall. They do not support the diligence, commitment, dedication and the love of lifelong professional k-12 educators.
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Could you be specific?
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I didn’t say I presume to know your thoughts on every or ANY other issue: I said that your post speaks for itself. And I stand by that. Did I crack out of turn, misrepresent what was behind the “naive question” about the connection between unions/tenure and the Connecticut shooting? I took great pains to explain, on the outside chance you REALLY didn’t know Diane’s point. But I’m confident that you did. And that was and is what’s so aggravating about your posting what you did here. It wasn’t the WORST thing I’ve read thus far on this issue, but in the context of being posted here, it was terribly reminiscent of the TFA folks who tried to play dumb (and even deny that they were TFA folks, in a couple of cases) yesterday.
I am not paranoid: I’m experienced with how these games are played. TFA isn’t the first and won’t be the last to use these tactics. They’re not even good at it. But my patience for what they tried to pull yesterday was already worn extremely thin. I don’t apologize for that. If I misrepresented your views, you have only to make clear what you purpose was with the original post. Until I read something to the contrary, however, I presume I had you pretty well sussed on that point. And that’s as much as I care to take to heart just yet.
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Fair enough Michael – I apologize then if I somehow was disrespectful. I can see how my initial question could have caused that reaction. I can see from your posts that are a thoughtful and intelligent individual, and I look forward to more discussions as they come up.
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Why would TFA have a gripe? Their teachers when hired like any other public 4 yr degree teacher is part of the union. Our school is loaded with TFA, and they are also part of our union. I don’t get the gripe.
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I don’t think it was the union thing that TFA necessarily was complaining about, but the tenure and professional parts, since TFA is neither concerned about long term or tenured teachers.
That being said, their complaints are all much ado about nothing.
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Oh how I wish ‘politics’ didn’t become disparaging word. Unfortunately when campaign payouts are tied to policy it defines the current state of politics ~ Dirty
Hang on as we all go over the cliff together due to politics.
The tenure debate is based in policy decisions based on campaign funding- Look at StudentsFirst’s political contribution – That’s politics
Union bashing is based on campaign funding- we all know about the Koch Bros- politics
NYS has an arbitrary 2% tax cap- more policy based of politics- Wait til this Spring when the devastation of NY’s school districts begin all because of the political aspiration of Gov Cuomo- more politics
My heart aches for NewTown- we need to recognize that political posturing will not address and correct the underlining issues here. However we need to recognize that it is the cause
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I completely agree. Our politics is broken, corrupted for years by selfish big money. We need to fix it by organizing and voting. The re-election of Obama is hopeful, in spite of his terrible education policy.
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But when was it not broken? When the only people that could vote were male? Where white? Landed?
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It was less broken 1950-80. The concentration of money in organizations, news and think tank is corrupting the national dialogue. A conservative friend agrees. It’s really bad. Demint thinks he has more power at Heritage, which really sums it up.
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Oh, so when women could vote but not get jobs outside if a few approved occupations and African Americans knew their place.
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But “seldom” is a discouraging word. . .
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The stakes are too high to be neutral. We’ll all look back on this blog as being the simmer to the boiling point.
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If you step back from this – it speaks to the broader issue and picture. The point that Diane mentioned support for teachers in other arenas besides protecting children is a sign that teachers are under outrageous attacks. In a different era perhaps it would not have come to mind or be necessary to make the point. That’s not politicizing – that’s 2012. The point that teacher for awhilers are offended means she’s struck a chord and that, too is significant. None of this diminishes the pain of last week and staying focused on the tragedy.
There was once a time (the ’60s) when the police were not in good favor in most eyes. I am sure somewhere in the aftermath of 9/11 some writers made note of that “maybe now the police will get the respect they deserve as our first responders and protecting us.” Vietnam veterans faced hell upon return until there were wake up calls to the those who spewed first and thought about it later. And, whenever there has been a group that has oppressed or demeaned and then representatives of the group shine a light on their true proud character and contribution – the tenor changes and it is natural to remind people of that.
Teachers are under attack. Public education is under attack. The point that Diane mentioned it in her tribute to those heroes in CT and those who protect kids every day highlights that the critics and quick fixers don’t have a clue what a teacher does, what a teacher loses sleep over, and what it means to be a professional teacher, especially in 2012.
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Excellent comment, cogently put.
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This is to address the critical issue brought up by rrato, which is that our current politics are broken, and a lot of bad things have been happening. TeachingEconomist questioned when this has been better, and I said 1950-80. He responded that that was when “african americans knew their place.”
First of all TeachingEconomist, I didn’t say that everything was peachy in 1950-80, so your comments are irrelevant. I said the political process was less broken. For example, we were able to pass the civil rights legislation of the ’60s.
There is a very important point here, which is central to the education debate. As Joseph Stiglitz documents in his book The Price of Inequality, the increasing inequality means a corrupting influence on politics. In the 1950-80 period our society was much more equal economically, and the political process was less corrupt.
Stiglitz quotes fellow Nobel-prize winning Economist Paul Krugman on this point: “Extreme concentration of income is incompatible with real democracy. Can anyone seriously deny that our political system is being warped by the influence of big money, and that the warping is getting worse as the few grows ever larger?”
And in poor countries a key thing keeping them poor is extreme inequality, and the corrupting influence of that inequallity, as my economist wife, Isabelle Tsakok documents in her book Success in Agricultural Transformation (Cambridge UP 2011).
When I hear those who are in the trenches on this issue, like Diane Ravitch, I keep hearing of the outsized influence of Gates, The Broad Foundation, Walmart and other super-rich people and their organizations on politics and public institutions, especially the schools. Do none of them know what they are talking about?
I think counteracting the misguided concentrated wealth by organizing large numbers of people is the critical task of those who want to improve education. The path to educational improvement is through regaining political strength through organization.
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And we are also able to pass civil rights legislation in 2012!
If there is some conspiracy to keep the poor poor, it is failing miserably as the number of poor people in the world continues to decline, both in absolute numbers and as a percentage of the world’s population.
In the words of Carol King, “there are the good old days”.
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You took a chance with your reputation allowing folks here to know that your spouse worked for the World Bank. When I have cited statistics or studies produced at the Bank, they have been dismissed because the Bank is seen as part of the conspiracy to exploit the poor.
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This is not about the world; it’s about America. If you don’t believe there is a conspiracy, Google ALEC,, read their “model” legislation and watch Bill Moyers’, The United States of ALEC: http://billmoyers.com/episode/encore-united-states-of-alec/
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TeachingEconomist, you are not addressing the point I am making, the impact of wealth inequality on US politics and education.
Some things are better now, and some things are worse. In the US what is worse is the inequality of wealth. This is just a fact, indicate by the GINI coefficient measures, as I’m sure you know. In addition our politics have become much more polarized and dysfunctional, as many people working on the Hill, as well as Senators—most recently Susan Collins—and Members of Congress have said over and over. You are not addressing these realities, which as I said are impacting education in a profound way.
As for the World Bank, my wife in her book has a lot of criticisms of it, as well as appreciative remarks. The views in her book are not generally speaking Bank views.
as
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Certainly the income distribution in the US has become more unequal, but I would not list that as my top explanation for increasing polarization in the legislature.
The top of my list is much more effective gerrymandering of districts by the state legislatures. My favorite policy change to address this would be to require legislative districts to be convex.
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Correction, the quote from Krugman should read: “the warping is getting worse as the wealth of a few grows larger”.
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