BAT Protest in D.C. On July 28

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1. Ajay says:

   July 23, 2014 at 3:23 pm

   I’ll be there!

   Reply
2. Marla Kilfoyle, General Manager of BATs says:

   July 23, 2014 at 3:40 pm

   Diane thank you so much for all your support. You will be there with us and we all wish you a speedy recovery so we can have you at the NEXT BIG BAT get together!

   Marla Kilfoyle, General Manager
   BATs National

   Reply
3. katie says:

   July 23, 2014 at 3:40 pm

   Wish I could be there. I will be there in spirit and I will be bombarding social media about their cause!! Go BATS :D. ^0^

   Reply
4. save public schools! says:

   July 23, 2014 at 3:42 pm

   It is a pleasure being in this fight together. Our children need us to speak up and make sure their best interests are at the heart of education. Also a free and appropriate education for all is what makes this country special. I will be at this rally with my family (AKA Special Interests…lol)

   Reply
5. Alison McDowell says:

   July 23, 2014 at 3:51 pm

   Excited to attend and reconnect with some of the wonderful advocates and friends I made at this spring’s United Opt Out event in Denver. I live in Philadelphia, and we are under siege daily. It is so important to have a support network.

   Reply
6. Delphia Mason says:

   July 23, 2014 at 4:18 pm

   Diane, thanks so much for what you do and represent. BATs have your back. Carry on.

   Reply
7. Alec Shantzis says:

   July 23, 2014 at 4:34 pm

   Thank you Diane for all you do. I am a music teacher in NJ. I teach in 3 schools and last year i had 1,100 students was paid less, worked more and was very stressed. I am a single father of three children, two in college. I am a BAT and I am grateful that you support the BATs. I can’t be in DC because of minor surgery, but i will be there in spirit. Thank you again for being both a ray of hope and a guiding light.

   Reply
8. Lauren Hopson says:

   July 23, 2014 at 4:41 pm

   I’ll be there!

   Reply
9. Rebecca Armstrong says:

   July 23, 2014 at 4:44 pm

   Thank you so much for supporting BATS. All 50,000+ of us send you get well wishes!

   Reply
   • Joseph says:

     July 24, 2014 at 7:17 am

     50,000+? We will see at the turnout.

     Reply
     • Teresa Wiley says:

       July 24, 2014 at 7:26 am

       There are 50,000+ in the Facebook group from all over the world. Obviously not all will be able to make it to DC, but we will be there in spirit!

10. laurel m sturt says:

    July 23, 2014 at 4:45 pm

    We’ll be one gigantic, outraged support group! Can’t wait to be there with my activist peeps for some reform therapy! We’re getting it done! Thanks for the backbone of inspiration you lend us with your blog every single day, Diane; we know you’ll be with us in spirit, as ever.

    Reply
11. Teka21 says:

    July 23, 2014 at 4:48 pm

    Thank you, Diane for sharing our rally with your readers! BATs and their families will be coming from all over our country to support our public schools, our teachers and to fight against destructive standards, testing, VAM, and privatization that harm students and our profession.

    Reply
12. Ken Previti says:

    July 23, 2014 at 4:56 pm

    Diane,
    Thank you for supporting all of the groups, large and small, who support teachers, teach parents why and how to opt-out of high stakes testing, and oppose charters and vouchers that drain public education funding into the hands of mere profiteers. Together, yet each in our own way, we can and will save public education. Why? Because we must.
    -Ken

    Reply
13. Jesse Turner says:

    July 23, 2014 at 4:56 pm

    Thank you for your support, leadership, and being a tireless warrior for America’s children and teachers.
    Love,
    Jesse The Walking Man Turner

    Reply
14. jlsteach says:

    July 23, 2014 at 5:16 pm

    This comment will probably not be very popular, but here goes…As a high school teacher for 10 years, including five years in DC Public schools. I completely agree with those in B.A.T. Association that aspects such as poverty impact a child’s education. Richard Rothstein’s work says it best – we must deal with other factors besides what is in the school if we want to improve…

    I also agree with the Tennessee teacher profiled on the B.A.T website on her visit to the White House to meet Arne Duncan. She noted that comparing the U.S. to other countries is like comparing apples to oranges – that we test all of our students while others test the best of the best.

    I also agree that there is too much testing in public school education…

    However, here is my question for everyone (one that I do not have a good answer to) – how can teachers, and students, be assessed reasonably? I would disagree with those that would say that we don’t need any type of assessment or any type of accountability. I truly believe that one of the reasons a liberal lion such as Ted Kennedy was behind No Child Left Behind is because he saw the inequality that existed across the country in terms of graduation rates, college acceptances, etc. It is a blessing and a curse that our Founding Fathers left education in the hands of states – so that students from one state can have different requirements than students from others.

    So, my question to all of the B.A.T., and others is…how do we assess? If testing is not the answer, what is? Or do we just say that the inequality is ok?

    Reply
    • NJ Teacher says:

      July 23, 2014 at 5:47 pm

      jlsteach,

      Stop feeding the Testing Monster! Everybody knows we are just identifying poverty. There are no surprises here.

      Reply
    • CaptnSassy (@CaptnSassy) says:

      July 23, 2014 at 6:40 pm

      The way we assessed students long before NCLB, with teacher and or district created assessments. Some examples: student created prezi’s, PSA’s, commercials, 2D and 3D works of art, movie trailers, lab evaluations, CER’s, models, stories, poems, lessons, comics, videos and portfolios of student work, just to name a few from my middle school science class. Yes, there were rubrics for each project the students chose to demonstrate their learning. More work for me, but immensely more valuable to my students.
      Now, thanks to CC$$ and the blasted tests, my students don’t have time to do most of these projects. Instead we pre test 4 times, post test 4 times, review for the end of year test, practice testing and then take the actual end of year test. And that’s just my content area. This happens in all 4 content areas. 34 standardized tests a year, before they get to the actual TEST.

      Reply
      • teachingeconomist says:

        July 23, 2014 at 10:31 pm

        There were Prezis long before NCLB?

      • Duane Swacker says:

        July 24, 2014 at 10:24 am

        What’s a prezi?

        Short for presentation?

      • teachingeconomist says:

        July 24, 2014 at 10:27 am

        Duane,

        It is a competitor to PowerPoint: http://prezi.com

      • Duane Swacker says:

        July 24, 2014 at 10:38 am

        Thanks, TE!

        So it is in essence a type of presentation. And you are correct in that it was established in 2009, way after “before NCLB”. CapnSassy just miswrote, nothing more or less.

    • Duane Swacker says:

      July 23, 2014 at 7:18 pm

      “So, my question to all of the B.A.T., and others is…how do we assess? If testing is not the answer, what is? Or do we just say that the inequality is ok?”

      Since you’ve been teaching for ten years and you can’t answer your own first question then I’d say there is something seriously wrong with you supervising principals. If all you know is standardized testing then, again, where has your supervising principals been-asleep at the wheel???

      What is the difference between testing and assessing? If you didn’t learn that in your undergraduate/graduate education work, I’d demand my money back.

      And no, the choice is not between inequality and testing. Inequality is not okay and the standardized testing only forces more inequality onto the students.

      Ay, ay ay!

      Reply
      • Duane Swacker says:

        July 23, 2014 at 7:20 pm

        where have (not has)

        And all testing and grading serve to discriminate-some get a lot more of the educational rewards and many get far less.

      • jlsteach says:

        July 23, 2014 at 11:04 pm

        Duane – I know there are many ways to assess…my question is rather this – how do we assess commonly across a large group of students? Captn Sassy, you make a great point about having students create Prezi’s, presentations, project based learning, etc. But the reality is that this is NOT happening in every school in every district in every city in every state. It should be, but it isn’t.

        Does the testing only identify poverty? Or does it also reveal poor teaching? In my years of teaching, I worked with some colleagues that were amazing – they have even had national awards named after them for the work they have done in the classroom. Unfortunately for me, that teacher never taught the grade level below me. Instead, I had students entering my Pre-calculus class who essentially did Algebra I for Algebra II and was able to get away with it because the principal was scared of the teacher (he was the union rep)…If his students were commonly assessed, maybe he would care. Or maybe not…

        Should it matter that different states have different education levels? That is a question none of you have chosen to answer, but to me is the all important one…

      • Duane Swacker says:

        July 24, 2014 at 8:47 am

        jlsteach,

        “. . . how do we assess commonly across a large group of students?”

        What is the need to, or why “assess commonly across a large group of students”? If you’re looking to identify disparities/inequities in school “outcomes” one has to first inquire into inequities in input, not output (with output being the preferred edudeformer focus, as far as they’re concerned inputs-student poverty level and how that affects the incoming students, resources, extra curricular activities, arts, etc. . . ). And simplistic dollars/student comparisons don’t cut it as each district and school is unique with many variable affecting how those dollars are spent.

        “It should be, but it isn’t.”

        “If that is true why?” Could it be because of the inane and insane federal requirements since NCLB and RaTT? Could it be because of incompetent administrators who allowed the teacher below you to pass off A1 for A2?

        “Does the testing only identify poverty? Or does it also reveal poor teaching?”

        Doesn’t do either of those things. Since the tests are COMPLETELY INVALID as shown by Wilson any results are as he says “VAIN and ILLUSORY”. See his “A Little Less than Valid: An Essay Review” found at: http://www.edrev.info/essays/v10n5.pdf

        “Should it matter that different states have different education levels? That is a question none of you have chosen to answer . . .”

        Well, I haven’t seen it worded that way so let me be the first to answer with a big NO!!! Why should all states “have the [same] education levels”?

      • jlsteach says:

        July 24, 2014 at 9:56 am

        Duane – to get to some of your points…why should all states have the same levels of education? Would you say it’s ok that kids in State A only have to take 2 years of math to graduate from HS but kids in State B have to take 4? Doesn’t that help perpetuate some of the inequalities that you claim you are trying to undo?

        The rules for NCLB and RTT don’t allow incompetent administrators as in the case that I described…Rather, the lack of accountability allows them to do whatever they chose.

        MathVale – see my point above in terms of the different expectations from each state. You are right that in a small school you had the flexibility to do things that are harder to accomplish when you try and scale up.

        I also agree with you MathVale about the search for the quick fix, but I disagree with you about teachers needs to be assessed. Doctor’s have to take board exams, lawyers take the bar exam, and yet for teachers they don’t have something in common? I think that the lack of some type of accountability has led teaching to be seen as less of a profession.

      • Duane Swacker says:

        July 24, 2014 at 10:22 am

        Have those differences in curriculum completion requirements by each state been a hindrance to the US becoming the top dog nation, at least as far as military might is concerned, not so in most social factors. Obstensibly, the US became that supposed great due to the rich variety of learning experiences and the flip side that the USSR with its top down standardized education did what?

        Each state tests its future docs, quacks-oops sorry lawyers-just funnin ya FLERP!, and teachers individually. So yes, there always has been that type of accountability and no, that “lack of accountability” hasn’t led to teaching being “seen as a less of a profession”. I’d go with the “majority of teachers are women and it’s a woman’s job” before I’d go with your theory. That supposed lack of accountability is just one of the many propaganda memes/tropes that the edudeformers and privateers use to “rouse the public” to their avaricious cause of “shrinking gubmint so it drains down the bathtub drain (except when that gubmint spending lines their own pocket as in the War Department’s expenditures or bailouts of “too big to fail corporations or the many corporate welfare handouts).

        The “inequalities I am trying to undo” are those that are caused by the whole educational standards and standardized testing and grading regime which sorts and separates, rewards and punishes students, and by extension the teachers and schools/districts.

        Individual diagnostic assessments for the determination of a student’s disabilities and/or other educational deficiencies are one thing, as are teacher and/or district made assessments. All the rest of those nefarious educational malpractices that are educational standards and standardized testing are ILLOGICAL, INVALID AND UNETHICAL.

        Why anyone can’t understandthat last statement is beyond my reasoning capabilities.

      • MathVale says:

        July 24, 2014 at 1:34 am

        jlsteach. If we could afford it, I would have enough teachers per student such that testing was more of a learning and diagnostic tool. One school I worked, I could handwrite my tests almost to each student. The pre-algebra, pre-calculus, calculus distinctions were meaningless. Students who struggled with trig identities could see a test with much more scaffolding. Or some could derive the quadratic formula first, then use it. Others were given it. Students could correct tests and master the concepts. Questions were free formed and open – “what method did you choose to solve this system and why?”. But it was a small school with very small classes. Not the norm, I know.

      • MathVale says:

        July 24, 2014 at 1:38 am

        And I’m not quite sure what you mean about states with different education levels. I have found the rigid and senseless Common Core standards useless for my current students.

    • Just another voice says:

      July 24, 2014 at 12:28 am

      I personally am not opposed to standardized assessments that inform our instruction, but the high-stakes testing of today does not do that. Getting results after the school year has ended doesn’t allow a teacher to change anything. Retaining a child to repeat the same instruction and curriculum he/she supposedly failed the previous year doesn’t help either. The “cut scores” on these tests are designed to fail almost half of the student body which tells us nothing. If we assessed at the beginning of the year and were able to see test items and responses in order to be able to specifically target missing foundation skills it would be better (not perfect, but better). Then give teachers time to collaborate to create a plan for those students who need additional support…teachers know who those kids are and often know what needs to be done, but the time, personnel, and differentiated materials are simply not available. Nor will they ever be when districts are forced to spend ad nauseum for tests and data entry systems.This “test ’em and then test ’em more” is devastating public education financially and emotionally. Students, teachers, schools and districts are being held to an accountability which is impossible to achieve or change, so all are left feeling like failures. There’s no benefit in that but there are other ways. Plus, we should never be making high stakes decisions based solely on the results of tests that are only testing 3-4 subjects anyway (of which usually only 2 matter: reading and math).

      Reply
      • Duane Swacker says:

        July 24, 2014 at 10:35 am

        “I personally am not opposed to standardized assessments that inform our instruction. . . ”

        You should be as any conclusions drawn from such an error filled process can only result in “vain and illusory” conclusions-not only “vain and illusory” but also ILLOGICAL, INVALID AND UNETHICAL as proven by Wilson.

    • MathVale says:

      July 24, 2014 at 1:13 am

      Teachers should not be assessed. While heresy in this political environment, teaching is a profession. Latin from profiteri meaning for sake of ownership or to acknowledge (help me out, Latin teachers). To me, professionals set standards and ensure all either meet those standards or are mentored to those standards. Instead, teaching as a profession has been undermined and hampered by reformers imposing irrational solutions. Elevating teaching to a respected profession takes a public that supports education. If so, then you attract the most competent and retain those many already in the field who are exceptional, but demoralized. Accountability, excellence, success – those are the outcomes but not the means. Sadly, America wants cheap teachers, not great teachers. We look for quick fixes, push button solutions, and easy answers. It also takes a certain amount of trust towards teachers.

      Students are assessed to learn, not learn for assessments. Again, America wants easy, quick answers. A 3.5 GPA student is less capable than a 4.0 GPA student. A diploma guarantees a set of skills. College readiness is measured by a standardized test. We forget students are human. Sure, assess away. But look at the tests as simply one tool in a whole strategy of learning based on the student – not statistics.

      Reply
      • teachingeconomist says:

        July 24, 2014 at 12:51 pm

        MathVale,

        If a high school diploma does not require a certain level of achievement to obtain (say reading at and eighth grade level), why do we bother giving it out? Why have ANY graduation requirements at all?

15. FLERP! says:

    July 23, 2014 at 5:22 pm

    I recommend using this as a theme song, assuming Nick Cave gives his consent.

    Reply
16. rr says:

    July 23, 2014 at 6:11 pm

    Thanks for the Shout Out!

    Reply
17. Joan Kramer says:

    July 23, 2014 at 7:11 pm

    Thank you Diane. Wish you could be there.

    Reply
18. Joseph says:

    July 23, 2014 at 7:16 pm

    God bless them if they can get any media coverage.

    Reply
19. Joseph says:

    July 23, 2014 at 7:26 pm

    There was a modest protest in NYC, but that included Opt Out Long Island.
    This turnout will determine if this virtual organization really exists.

    Reply
    • SoCalTeacher says:

      July 23, 2014 at 7:41 pm

      Regardless of the turn-out, I’m sure there will be a big round of BAT self-love and self-applause. One founder, who equates his experience as a professor at an elite private university with that of a public K-12 teacher, will boast of his accomplishments under the guise of faux humility. The other founder, an “unschooling”charter school parent, will smugly dismiss real teachers who disagree with her positions as “drinking the Kool Aid” while dismissing all dissent with a curt “we have 50,000 BATs (who managed to click “Join” on Facebook or didn’t leave when added) so we are a powerhouse.” All other BATs will act all aghast that anyone dare criticizes their beloved leaders or the group’s legitimacy.
      Then they will make some more memes.

      Reply
      • Elaine says:

        July 23, 2014 at 8:39 pm

        Could those grapes be any more sour?

      • Lisa Smith says:

        July 23, 2014 at 8:41 pm

        Uh. You have a nice day, too.

      • KrazyTA says:

        July 23, 2014 at 11:03 pm

        Elaine and Lisa Smith: as Señor Swacker knows in the original language, “no le pidas peras al olmo” [don’t ask for pears from an elm tree]. In other words, you may be asking for the impossible…

        Look, in order to successfully poke fun at someone or something else, to satirize them, to parody them, it helps to have a humorous punchline or an ironic closer.

        When you do, you show you understand that:

        “Against the assault of laughter nothing can stand.” [Mark Twain]

        The commenter you refer to would be totally at sea with Dorothy Parker:

        “I’d rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.”

        Y’all and I understand that this icon of American wit was leaning towards the former while the commenter you reference would seem to avidly opt for the latter.

        I can only end with a heartfelt plea to the owner of this blog—

        Please try to attract a better class of shills and trolls to your blog. I don’t mind if the joke’s on me sometimes, but couldn’t they at least be funny?

        I ask because I’m on a strict doctor-prescribed regimen:

        “A day without laughter is a day wasted.” [“Dr.” Charlie Chaplin, PhD. in Laughology with a minor in Chucklethenics]

        I rest my case…

        😎

      • FLERP! says:

        July 24, 2014 at 4:13 am

        Well, I never heard of “unschooling” before, so I did some searches. And now I’ve also heard of “UnCollege,” which was the BAT co-founder’s previous gig. UnCollege is a “social movement” that was started with money from one of Peter Thiel’s “fellowships,” and has a business model that involves young people paying $15k-$16k “tuition” to live in a house and not go to college and attend “workshops” and “jam sessions.” Non-refundable $1,000 deposit.

        Concerned about cost? Not a problem! Because:

        “For students with financial concerns, UnCollege works with Pave, a company that allows you to raise money in exchange for a small percentage of your future income. Pave will connect you to backers with similar passions, who will provide the tuition and mentorship in exchange for a small percentage of your individual earnings for a 10 year time period. Unlike a loan, your income share payments are designed to always be affordable and scale with your success.”

        http://www.uncollege.org/program/#program-cost

        If I were a BAT, I might ask my co-founder what the heck is up with all that. Because wow.

      • Michael Fiorillo says:

        July 24, 2014 at 10:06 am

        Thanks for the information about the Thiel/BAT connection, Flerp.

        Peter Thiel is among the most toxic of Ayn Randite Silicon Valley entrepreneur/malanthropists, and for anyone who claims to support public education to be involved with him, his ideas or organizations is seriously misguided, on par with chickens demonstrating in support of Colonel Sanders.

      • dianeravitch says:

        July 24, 2014 at 10:17 am

        Michael,

        I think we have a better chance at creating a successful movement if we spend less time picking fights with each other and building common ground. How often do you see Bill Gates and Eli Broad having public fights?

      • jlsteach says:

        July 24, 2014 at 10:22 am

        “I think we have a better chance at creating a successful movement if we spend less time picking fights with each other and building common ground”

        I completely agree with this sentiment…and yet it’s also the bane of my frustration. Do groups like BAT lead to a common ground among educators, or are they picking fights?

        The reality is that all of us want our children to have education opportunities,,,So often I feel that there is so much negativity sent towards people instead of searching for commonalities. Education has no black and white – there is no magic solution, the real answer lies somewhere in the shades of grey…For example, why does the response to too much testing have to be no testing at all?

        And Dr. Ravitch, you pointed out that when you went to public schools your teachers wrote the tests for you…You may have been super fortunate to always have competent teachers who had high expectations for all students, but the reality is that that is not the case in many classrooms today…what about those students?

      • Duane Swacker says:

        July 24, 2014 at 10:44 am

        KTA,

        I believe it is spelt, or is that spelled, chucklesthenics “often considered a sub school of laughology” (per Oye-el pensador).

      • Duane Swacker says:

        July 24, 2014 at 10:55 am

        jlsteach,

        “For example, why does the response to too much testing have to be no testing at all?”

        That is not the response from this poster nor from what I’ve seen any other posters on this blog.

        Yes, I do say no to all standardized testing which is not the same as saying “no testing at all”. There is a big difference and not just semantically speaking.

        By the way having a bit of differences on what the BAT is, is fine with me. Not sure why some are jumping on SoCalTeacher who is bringing up points that, from my understanding, some have had with the BATS organization. The sooner the BATS recognize and accept the flaws (the ol’ no one is perfect thingy) and then correct them the more valid and influential they will become (disclosure; I am not a member for a number of reasons but mainly the whole badass stuff)

      • Tim says:

        July 24, 2014 at 12:34 pm

        Flerp, be careful poking around the inner workings of the BATS. More specifically, you should mentally prepare yourself for what you would do if you found out one of your kid’s teachers was a BAT. I’d basically rather not know.

        As for Diane’s comment about Bill Gates and Eli Broad, no, I can’t recall ever seeing them squabble in public. That certainly doesn’t mean there is a unanimity of approaches and beliefs among “reformers”. There are sharp divisions on Common Core, vouchers, etc.

      • Michael Fiorillo says:

        July 26, 2014 at 11:04 am

        Diane, while I agree with you as a general principle that we must unite against our common enemies, how exactly should we build “common ground” with a group that is aggressively misleading about it’s membership, and that is notorious for censoring it’s site and not permitting debate?

        Not only have those facts not been refuted, but they have in fact been admitted to by administrators or others sympathetic to the group.

        I promised myself that I would not comment on this post, but Flerp’s information is very important, since it shows connections between BATs leadership and enemies of public education. Should we ignore that, too, in the interest of “common ground?”

        Sorry, but I have this pesky desire to see the people I’m supposed to be allied with tell the truth and engage in open debate, and I can’t help but be skeptical and want to keep my distance, and urge others to do the same, when so much of what emanates from this group is overstated (at best, misleading at worst) tone deaf and narcissistic.

      • dianeravitch says:

        July 26, 2014 at 12:17 pm

        Michael Fiorillo,

        I know BATs and they are fighting for public education in hostile environments where unions are banned. They need the colleagueship. I don’t know every bad thing that the national organization has done, but I won’t condemn them if they block naysayers. We need lots of allies and Yes-Sayers.

      • Michael Fiorillo says:

        July 26, 2014 at 12:51 pm

        Diane, I think we’ve taken this as far as we reasonably can, but I’ll finish my bit by saying that the censorship on the BATs site is not limited to “naysayers,” but also includes those who are sympathetic and probably in agreement with them on most points but commit the apparently unforgivable sins of raising questions, questioning strategy or even expressing humor that is somehow seen as a threat to the self-congratulatory groupthink that permeates the organization.

        For whatever it’s worth, I’ve been around unions and Left organizations/movements a long time, and I am confident in my ability to distinguish between a real working class organization and someone’s vanity effort.

        If BATs can draw a significant percentage of it’s claimed 50,000 membership, along with allies – say, one percent or approximately five hundred people, a very good turnout for events of this kind – to its demonstration on the 28th, then I will stand corrected, and will be open to changing my views about the real world effectiveness of this group.

        Until then, I think it’s inflated claims to leadership of this movement should be taken with a tablespoon of salt, given the unrefuted facts about their behavior.

        And I thank you for the opportunity for this “naysayer” to freely give his opinion, without being banished from your site.

20. Autumn Moon says:

    July 23, 2014 at 7:44 pm

    I will be there. Coming all the way from Florida.

    Reply
21. Donna says:

    July 23, 2014 at 7:55 pm

    When I was a kid (I’m 54) there was testing that advised what percentile you were in based on your results. I don’t remember what those tests were called, but the results were handed out to each child to bring home. If remedial help was needed, it was given; either in the morning before class or after school.

    In h.s., there were mid terms and finals, and the SATs for those pursuing college. I can’t remember what other “standardized” tests there may have been in the 1970s.

    Those standardized tests, combined with mid terms and finals and chapter tests and pop quizzes, etc. all taken together, gauged if a student “got it,” right?

    There wasn’t a created market for Pearson, etc., and teaching to the test. This standardized testing of NCLB and RTTT is all about the $$$$$ going to the test maker. Common Core is the big ka-ching on the tests, the curriculum, the books, the technology, the internet infrastructure, and big bucks for Gates, Microsoft, Pearson, et al, and adding in the characterization/privatization of PUBIC education, funded by tax dollars, well we’ve got ourselves quite a lousy tasting stew that serves no one but the “architects” of this debacle.

    Reply
    • Elaine says:

      July 23, 2014 at 8:38 pm

      EXACTLY, Donna. Standardized tests aren’t anything new. I remember taking Iowa Standards and STANINEs during elementary school. I’m 55, so these were probably the same tests you took. One of them gave percentile scores, I don’t remember which one.

      Nowadays it’s all about the money to be made.

      Reply
      • dianeravitch says:

        July 23, 2014 at 8:45 pm

        Elaine and Donna, I graduated from the Houston public schools in 1956. We never took standardized tests. Our teachers wrote the tests we took.

        Diane

      • Lisa Smith says:

        July 23, 2014 at 9:18 pm

        We took standardized tests when I was growing up in Colorado, too. But they weren’t high stakes; they were diagnostic or used for class placement for the next grade. Teacher jobs weren’t in jeopardy, schools weren’t threatened with closure, and the only test prep we had was several minutes in third grade when we were introduced to how to fill in a bubble sheet.

      • teachingeconomist says:

        July 23, 2014 at 10:34 pm

        I also took the Iowa tests in the late 60s early 70s.

        Interesting that poster Lisa Smith says that placement for the next grades were not high stakes for the students.

      • English Teacher in California says:

        July 24, 2014 at 8:24 am

        I took the Iowa test, also. It didn’t seem like that big of a deal. All of the other tests were teacher controlled. My district keeps adding “periodic assessments” that take a lot of time, and I feel that I shouldn’t add my own tests to the mix. However, the district assessments don’t give me the information I need. Last year was the ultimate. The Superintendent cancelled all of the periodic assessments ( yay!) and then they panicked and assigned two CC assessments before winter break… No, before thanksgiving! Before giving them I already knew what the results would be, because I had not taught those CC standards yet, and they were not even the equivalent of the old California standards for our old pacing plan, so what was the point of the assessments?
        It’s all done so thoughtlessly.

      • Duane Swacker says:

        July 24, 2014 at 10:57 am

        TE,

        Giving out a bit of information there, you youngster! Did you breach your own security measures with that-ha ha!!!

22. Laureen says:

    July 23, 2014 at 8:14 pm

    We need to do this around the country. Get something going in San Jose, CA.

    Reply
    • Elaine says:

      July 23, 2014 at 8:37 pm

      Are you close to San Francisco? There’s a group meeting there during the rally.

      Reply
23. Elaine says:

    July 23, 2014 at 8:36 pm

    Thanks for the shout-out, Diane. I’m sure you’ll be with us in spirit. Lots of us are skype-ing or FaceTiming with people who can’t make it, so contact some of the BATs you know if you want to be there electronically. 🙂

    Reply
24. Gus W says:

    July 23, 2014 at 11:02 pm

    Just learned about the “changes” to the NYC contract – rest assured they will still be overtesting and attaching blame to teachers…

    Reply
25. WSDuke says:

    July 23, 2014 at 11:11 pm

    Thanks for the support, from an Ohio BAT packing for the rally in DC.

    Reply
26. jlsteach says:

    July 23, 2014 at 11:14 pm

    Here is the problem if the teacher writes the test. You have Student A and Student B, both in Washington DC public schools in Algebra II. Student A is being taught by a teacher who truly taught Algebra II material all year long. Student B is taught by the teacher who did a review of Algebra I but called it Algebra II (that teacher claimed that the kids didn’t know Algebra I so he felt it was his job to teach it to them now instead of Algebra II – not realizing that set them behind more)

    Midterms and finals are written by the teacher. Both Student A gets a B in Algebra II after taking exams that covered Algebra II material. Student B gets an A in Algebra II on an exam that mainly covered Algebra I and some 8th grade math…

    Which student learned more? Which student is really ready?

    I have seen too many students supposedly do well in high school and get high grades and then flunk out of their first year of college, or be told they have to take remedial math classes (for pay but the classes don’t count as credit towards graduation). Why? Because no one was monitoring the crappy teachers…

    You can say “where was the principal? Where was the dept chair?, etc…

    One other thing to note…I noticed a change from when I was in high school (I am from a fairly well to do family and went to an IB program) and the students I taught in DC. As a HS student myself, if I did poorly on a test the blame was mine. I was the one that didn’t study. As a teacher, if the students did poorly often times the blame was pointed at me – I didn’t teach them well enough.

    To me, the real answer lies in a happy medium…to say “no testing” is too far of an extreme…how will you stop teachers from not teaching the proper material? At the same time, I agree that one cannot just blame the teachers for all of the issues and over test…

    Do protests really help? Or instead should both sides try and come to the table?

    Reply
    • teachingeconomist says:

      July 23, 2014 at 11:46 pm

      Certainly within district differences are important, but between district differences are probably much larger. There was an earlier discussion on this blog about how graduates of some traditional public high schools are not well prepared to be freshman at other traditional public high schools.

      Reply
    • Duane Swacker says:

      July 24, 2014 at 11:01 am

      jlsteach,

      What is your need to compare students???

      If I may finish your thought!

      “You can say “where was the principal? Where was the dept chair?, etc…”

      . . . and be quite correct in pointing out the problem lies with the administrator and not the teacher.

      Reply
    • Duane Swacker says:

      July 24, 2014 at 11:03 am

      jlsteach,

      Did you go through a traditional undergrad education program to be certified or did you go through another route-TFA, etc. . . ?

      Reply
      • jlsteach says:

        July 24, 2014 at 11:10 am

        Duane – neither. I earned my B.S. in mathematics and then pursued my graduate degree in secondary education through a traditional route.

        As for the need to compare students – here is the reason why – both of those students may be applying to the same college or university…and one is really not as prepared as the other…without some type of standard students will continually be set up to fail…

        And I would disagree with you – you don’t think that it’s the teacher’s problem that he/she was teaching the wrong material? Really? The teacher has no blame there at all? It’s just the administrator’s fault?

27. Joseph says:

    July 24, 2014 at 9:15 pm

    Diane
    Gates and Broad don’t need to have public fights, they control all of the players to degrade education. This group has nothing but an internet access cable. All of the
    miniscule debates are becoming numbing and self inflating by individuals who have no active role in community, while the members should be working locally, rather than looking to a national educational blog in a virtual world, and an emasculated rally without media coverage . My last posting seems to be missing, attesting to this illusion of “independent activism”, and not by outside agencies influencing the “leadership”.
    These so called activists groups like BATS and Green’s “Save Our Schools” dare not take on the teachers union and its leadership, since they are “supported” by them.

    Reply
28. Lori B says:

    July 25, 2014 at 3:04 am

    Diane,

    Thank you for all that do in fighting the political machine and CCSS…We BATS are proud to have you on our side!

    Reply