This is a site for discussing better education for all.
You know that.
And you know that I won’t permit comments that are blatantly offensive.
I am the judge of what is offensive.
It seems that one of my posts, in which a teacher asked whether parents were always the best judge of what is best for their children, got published on a home-schooling website. I don’t know which site it was, but for hours I have been receiving offensive comments. Some describe teachers as perverts. Some curse teachers for daring to think that they ever know better than any parent. Some curse public education in vile terms.
I have deleted almost all of them because of the level of abusiveness and scurrilousness.
They can continue ranting on their website. Not here.
If anyone wants to disagree with anything printed here, welcome.
But mind your manners and your language.
Good advice. I am the biggest supporter of home-schooling but we can have CIVIL discussions on our differences.
I appreciate your standards, Diane.
Given what I’ve seen on other websites, you may be the model for decorous discussion.
Keep it up.
Sorry you have to deal with such nonsense, Civil discourse shouldn’t be destroyed by uncivilized behavior
I talk too much, but I wanted to thank you for writing this blog in spite of the abuse you have to take.
Your page. Your expectations. Your expectations are mature and civil. It’s a shame that others too often forget how to be mature and civil.
Kathy1,
Boy I used to hate it when my mother would tell me to “grow up and act more mature”. Never did like that concept. Except that now it serves more to describe my current stage in life than anything else, but I hope I’m still immature enough to enjoy my “maturity”.
Thank you & the more we are civil the more we will communicate ideas and considered opinion over bombast.
RE: Internet Manners
Bruce Schneier (security expert) short video on Morality of Security:
The yet to be written social media laws. New area of law. Coming soon… Social Media Fraud.
Diane, thank you for your courage. It’s not possible to have a rational discussion with people that don’t base their beliefs on logic. I hope you continue your work as it is inspiring and educative.
On the other hand, other blogs have taken a different tack: Set up a page in which abusive e-mails and comments are put on display for the world to see. You don’t have to respond to them. You don’t have to mock and taunt them, though the temptation be great. But the abusive, ignorant, and frequently ungrammatical missives are there in all their glory, displaying all of the logic, erudition, persuasion, and manners their authors are capable of mustering. Kind of a Hall of Shame for the opposition.
The letter you posted actually offended me, too. I didn’t think it was respectful to the disabled children in that teacher’s care, or to their parents. I tried to reframe the question, but I don’t think anybody can undo the breach of trust when a teacher denounces the families she serves with such contempt.
I know the teachers who took care of my son had to “clean dried feces off his butt.” I am so thankful that his teacher, Lillian, never flung it at me like that. She didn’t stay with severely impaired children because she could “do whatever I want”.
I hope the parents who are spitting and cursing understand that most teachers don’t agree with those statements. I apologize to them.
As one who disagrees with much of what you say, I also strongly disapprove of vulgar behavior in any discussions.
The reactions are indication of how some people handle things they disagree with, think that kids don’t see that and learn by these actions?
Mr. White’s statement was designed to provoke strong emotion and it did the job it was supposed to do — namely, slip his description of the situation past the guards of critical attention.
There is nothing wrong with speeches that speak to our deepest feelings, but we need to examine the aim of the speaker in doing that, or else we may find ourselves racing down some path without quite knowing where it goes.
Thanks, Jon. When people are under attack and disempowered, they face a moral hazard in argumentation; but where it really matters is in schools and communities, among parents, teachers, and children.
Some teachers might fall into the ugly defensive posture of asserting their immunity to criticism, especially by low-income parents, by dishing up demeaning and unwarranted stereotypes. That’s wrong, and actual teachers have to oppose it whenever it arises.
A lot of public school policies can fail or harm individual children even in the best of circumstances; but parents are our allies in protecting the children in our charge, and we’re their allies. Without unpacking the whole thing again, I can testify that the parents I deal with are overwhelmingly worthy and reasonable people, who are vastly maligned in the narratives of just about everybody who seeks power over them.
It is always helpful if they come and talk about their child. i have to be careful not to accidentally reach over and touch a shoulder or something, though, because parents of sick or vulnerable children can fall into your arms and cry if you’re not careful.
Discourse like the comment Diane posted is important, though harrowing, and I hope parents as well as teachers can help walk us back from it.
Thank you, Diane. I could not be in stronger agreement.
It has become “sport” for some people—particularly those with a visceral, deep hated for our schools and our teachers—to post vile, repulsive, personal attacks, while they cowardly hide behind false fronts on the Internet.
In the past, these miscreants would have had to provide their real name. They would have had to say those things, in effect, in front of their entire community. Their children, their relatives, their neighbors and co-workers. It kept a certain degree of civility with us at all times.
So, I greatly appreciate not only your brilliance, your quiet confidence and well-grounded authority, and your courage, I now also applaud you for demanding a decent standard of behavior on your blog. And I hope it encourages others to do the same.
When people know that their boss, or a potential future boss, or girlfriend, or old college friend, can search and instantly see what they’ve written, it might force a bit more mutual respect and civility in our discussions.
But wait…aren’t you “forcing people to censor their own comments” and “limiting my freedom to express myself”? Of course you are. And that’s a very good thing. 🙂
Excellent post, Diane. Thank you, again.
However, it raises another point that’s very important in the public discussion on education.
Go to almost any other website or blog, where people are discussing public education, and you’ll see a plethora of vicious, horrible, truly odious comments about our schools, our teachers and the people who support them.
This attitude has crept right up to the highest levels…and back down again. Could you imagine a governor, 10 or 20 years ago—or even 5 years ago, calling public school teachers “thugs” during an interview? And yelling at a constituent to “MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS!” when she asked him about his education policies and if they were influenced by the fact that his own children attended private schools?
He would have been loudly and publicly denounced, even by members of his own party. And rightfully so. But, in the year 2012, he has been invited to be the Keynote Speaker for the Republican Party convention; delivering the most visible speech of the entire meeting, with the exception of the nominee himself!
And we wonder why our children aren’t more respectful and conscious of their words?
Why haven’t we heard anyone—absolutely anyone—from the “education reform” network speak out against this type of rhetoric? If they really do “care” about our schools, our children, and the people who teach them, why have we not heard one single word of dissent when their allies and backers excoriate our teachers in the most egregious way imaginable?
It appears that no anonymous blog post or attack from a prominent public figure, no matter how absolutely reprehensible, will ever be criticized by a Michelle Rhee or Eli Broad. And that reality is quite telling.
I reread Diane’s blog, the teacher’s comments, and the postings that followed. I am sure that at least some of the outrage directed against Diane is real but it is patently unfair and is an excellent example of the publicly accepted bullying of everyone who works in a public school.
My experience working as a TA in two different LAUSD schools, as well as my life experience, leaves me convinced that the vast majority of parents love their children and do the best they can for them. However, with all due respect, that doesn’t mean that they automatically always know what is best for them in particular situations [e.g., regarding best medical practices]. **Nor, to make complete disclosure, do I. Collaboration and mutual respect should come into play.**
One incident in particular sticks out in my memory. While working in an elementary school I noticed that one little boy seemed to get some extra attention from the main teacher I worked with/for, a formidable woman named Ms. Barbara Pene. Over time, I found out from other TAs and teachers that this short, dowdy woman who made her way around with some difficulty using a cane, had stood up to the boy’s father. School staff, female and male, were afraid of this man, a physically imposing and scowling type, a real bully. This particular parent thought that threatening and verbally abusing his son, along with denying him food as punishment, were acceptable practices. I hope it didn’t get much worse than that.
Ms. Pene insisted the father come to school. She made it clear to this paragon of the “spare the rod and spoil the child” school: no more abuse, no more starving, and she would see to it that when his son came to school that he was properly fed and clothed. I know that some of the money came directly from her purse, with no reimbursement.
Ms. Pene never talked to me about this. I only found out about this from other school staff who admired her courage and generosity. Teachers are often the front line of defense for children. And why should that be a surprise? Most of the dozens of teachers I worked for were parents themselves.
I will repeat the obvious for those who are abusing Diane’s blog: I am not defending anyone — parent, teacher, administrator, spiritual advisor, you name it — who abuses children. Let them suffer the consequences of their ill-conceived actions. But give credit where credit is due.
A shout out, after lo these many years, to Ms. Barbara Pene. And to all the other Barbara Penes who quietly, without public fanfare, have defended their charges because it was the right and honorable thing to do.
Read the newest comments and let me know what you think.
Agreed! Saying parents don’t always know what is best is not the same as accusing parents of not loving their children or being abusive. When my children were sick I would take the advice of doctors. When we needed help with college funding I took the advice of a financial planner. If we had needed legal advice I would have taken the advice of attorneys. Professional educators go to school for a reason.
The tendency in the nation now is to dismiss the expertise of educators. Why would it be any different? The nations “top” educator is a former semi-pro basketball player with a degree in sociology. Arne Duncan never taught in a public school…he never even attended a public school. His attitude is that teacher training isn’t necessary. The children coming out of TFA with 5 weeks of training are being hailed as the saviors of public education. Edupreneurs are opening schools to make a quick buck. Just take a look at the fiasco in Louisiana….
Parents (and I include myself in this group) may love their children…but that doesn’t mean that they always know what’s best for them. Sometimes doing your best for your children means asking the advice of experts.
I know this is a bit of a tangent here but my mom used to think I was better off with “Sally” (name protected). Glad I didn’t listen to her, Sally was a piece of work! Anwyay underneath my mom really just wanted me to be safe & secure/happy,
Just as many parents do for their children, it doesn’t mean they always know what’s best for them.
“Could you imagine a governor, 10 or 20 years ago—or even 5 years ago, calling public school teachers “thugs” during an interview? ”
Yes, I can and could probably find worse examples but I’ve got to get ready to go to school.
There never has been a golden time of “political” civil discourse, it (politics) is an ugly game of power trips and egos. When one puts oneself up as an expert they best not live in glass houses as we all have our own pecadillos.
I use my name. I wish all would but I know why teachers might be afraid to do so as I’ve been forced out of a district for challenging the powers that be. I was until this past year when I said screw it, if they want to come after me they will and then it will be a legal battle for which I have no funds.
Duane, I don’t agree with you here.
There are many examples in our history of rudeness, incivility, hostility, even violence among political foes.
In one famous example, one senator thrashed another on the floor of the Senate, in response to an insult.
“In 1856, South Carolina Representative Preston Brooks nearly killed Charles Sumner on the Senate floor for ridiculing his relative, Sen. Andrew Butler, as a pimp for slavery in his vitriolic denunciation of the ‘Crime against Kansas.'”
But, no, I know of no example where a Governor called the teachers in his state “thugs,” or anything similar.
Even when they were underpaid, they received a modicum of respect from elected officials.
The current Governor of my state and his Superintendent of Public Instruction, Indiana, has never called us “thugs” specifically, but their contempt for public school teachers is fairly obvious.
The President and his Secretary of Education never called teachers “thugs,” but they cheered from the sidelines when the staff of an entire school in Central Falls, Rhode Island was fired.
…and don’t forget Rod Paige, who called the NEA a “terrorist organization.” What does that imply about the 3.2 million teacher members?
Some elected (or appointed) officials don’t even pretend to offer teachers any respect whatsoever.
Sorry, Duane. You’ll have to produce some footnotes or links for me to believe your statement. As acrimonious as politics often is, there used to be, particularly in the Post-WWII period, a more decent and mutually respectful public dialogue. No governor—not even the miscreants and flamethrowers like George C. Wallace and Lester Maddox—used terms like “thugs” to speak of their political opponents. That type of language was used very infrequently, if at all, and it was used only to describe…well, actual thugs, criminals, sociopaths, etc.
Calling your opponents names, being vicious and deliberately inciting hatred, and claiming that you are disloyal and anti-American has yes, always existed in our country; but such behavior and crass invective has never before come directly from “prominent” office holders such as Republican governors, congressmen and senators.
When a governor of a relatively affluent and well-educated state boastfully pontificates in a way that makes him sound like a mixture of Rush Limbaugh, Bill O’Reilly and Tony Soprano, you know we’ve entered a new era, where any means will be employed as long as it is perceived as “effective” in getting the powerful what they want.
@John Foster
How specific are we getting here? You say that “no governor—not even the miscreants and flamethrowers like George C. Wallace and Lester Maddox—used terms like “thugs” to speak of their political opponents.”
Not too many, I agree, but none? Not quite. Chris Christie is governor of New Jersey and he made a specific comment when talking about some of his political opponents — teachers unions.
He said that the teachers union were “a group of political thugs.”
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/jersey-governor-chris-christie-calls-teachers-union-political/story?id=13310446#.UC1SwkI6ywc
Rod Paige, the Secretary of education under G. W. Bush said that he “considered the N.E.A. to be a terrorist organization.”
So, perhaps no governor (or politician) has used the actual term “thugs” when referring to teachers (as opposed to their union), but there are quite a few governors who have worked hard to politely destroy teachers and their unions…Daniels in Indiana, Walker in Wisconsin, Snyder in Michigan, Kasich in Ohio…
There are governors, and politicians of all stripes who might say how wonderful teachers are but then turn around and do everything they can to destroy public education, public schools and teachers unions.
Politicians have said rude things to their political opponents since Jefferson. I never heard of any governor calling teachers “thugs” until NJ’s Christie.
I come here for relief from other sites/blogs/postings. Your standards should be the Common Core standards. Thank you
No, Common Core should not be the “standard” to which we aspire. To paraphrase from Blazing Saddles “Common Core, we don’t need no stinkin Common Core”*
*From Wiki: The original version of the line appeared in B. Traven’s 1927 novel The Treasure of the Sierra Madre:
“All right,” Curtin shouted back. “If you are the police, where are your badges? Let’s see them.”
“Badges, to god-damned hell with badges! We have no badges. In fact, we don’t need badges. I don’t have to show you any stinking badges, you god-damned cabrón and chinga tu madre!”
The line was popularized by the 1948 film adaptation of the novel.[3] In one scene, a Mexican bandit leader named “Gold Hat”[4] (portrayed by Alfonso Bedoya) tries to convince Fred C. Dobbs (Humphrey Bogart)[2] that he and his company are Federales:
Dobbs: “If you’re the police where are your badges?”
Gold Hat: “Badges? We ain’t got no badges. We don’t need no badges! I don’t have to show you any stinkin’ badges!”
In Mel Brooks’ 1974 Western Blazing Saddles, the line was delivered as “Badges? We don’t need no stinking badges”.
By the way, the Spanish in the original quote is quite, how shall I say it, “strong”, “foul mouthed” or certainly “not to be used in polite company”.