The New Books Network selected my memoir as the book of the day on October 28.
They posted this interview with me about the book. I hope you watch.
I really liked the conversation with Tom Discenna, who is a Professor of Communication at Oakland University whose work examines issues of academic labor and communicative labor more broadly.
Tim read the book. Very often, I have been interviewed by people who read the copy on the jacket or had questions prepared by their staff. Not Tom. He read the book.
Let me know what you think.
Diane Ravitch's blog 
I just finished listening to your interview. I could write pages on what you had to say, but, geez, I wish I had you around to sit down and talk to during my days as a classroom teacher. I mean just to tell me, “Rick, what you are thinking is not wrong despite what they are telling you.” I never viewed myself as a teacher, but rather “some guy” who was supposed to be hot shot “ad man.” But, as typical, I wander into places trying to figure out myself until someone said, “You know, you would make a good teacher.” I had no clue what that meant. I write based on my experiences not to gain attention, but just to let people in on some “real stuff.” As an arts person, I lived in a multi-diverse culture especially when I was able to leave my comfort zone and loved it, well, until they took it away. I learned to do multiple things. I tried to escape working with the marginalized kids (that’s where all the bad teachers go), but it never happened. I remember being so down about not getting the comprehensive high school art teacher position, but my son said, “Dad, you will have so much more of an impact on those kids at your school. You will teach them and give them “the shirt off your back” so they can have a better life. That would never happen at the regular high school.” Like I said, never thought of myself as as a teacher, but rather a “compass” with years of “doing stuff” and making mistakes, but always learning why. My wife said, “You get along with the kids so well because you don’t believe you are better than them; you view your kids as people you want to help better their lives no matter what they do and do whatever it takes to help them.” Your words were wonderful; I visualize all of what you said and connected it to what I experienced. I remember talking to one of my admin (a very nice man and who I could trust) and said, “Wouldn’t it be cool to be able to voice our views without feeling retribution? I mean just discussing what was best for students and then getting coffee?” Yeah, that would never happen as I felt very guarded my entire career. Thank you so much for your dedication for “seeing” and making a difference. You made me feel I did what was right by being in the public classroom and working with all those kids who had nowhere to sleep, rarely food to eat, and someone to give them hope despite what the world threw at them. Many are very successful now. Thank you for allowing me to share my stories.
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Dear Rick,
What a remarkable career you have had! Teachers like you are amazing. Your reasons for teaching are inspiring. I could never do what you did over your career. I am in awe of your accomplishments!
Diane
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You know, it’s like the fish keeps getting bigger stories, but true. The things I witnessed, the kids who were just moved forward for someone else to “deal with” because if one really wanted to help a child, it took time; time that wasn’t paid. I saw little kids cry when their brains didn’t process correctly and dismissed as behavior issues. The learning disabilities that were ignored; kids who needed glasses, and who were abused. Kids who were so happy that I gave them CheezIts and water at school. Kids who had dirty clothes and had nowhere to go to the doctor. I never thought about it just that I was “standing up for what was right.” My wife said, “That’s who you are.” And the fact that she comes home from the bank and tells me, “I just met someone who said they were in your class (these kids are closing in on 40) and broke out in tears.” Now that I have time to reflect, I am glad I didn’t drink the “kook aid” and fought for these students. Oh, and as far as testing, I taught SAT test prep. I studied these tests and found they had patterns where answers were within questions. I taught kids to “McGuyver” tests because answers were within plain sight. Well, sort of. And I also noticed that these tests were geared for elite students. I never knew there was an 8th grade PSAT. I sat and thought, “How does it make a kid feel that they can’t even read the directions?” I found the test and there was no way I could pass it. And, the tests were geared not to find the truly correct answer, but the closest answer. I posed a question and asked students if the correct answer was A, B, C, or D. They all chose. The correct answer was that they were all right depending on how one supported their thinking process. The argument was that students really never get to tell you how they came up with their answer. I used that more times than not as it gave me a true insight to their metacognition. In fact, I remember saying, “Dang, that is insightful. I would have never looked at it that way.” And the last thing on tests, there were two guys from UCLA who guaranteed high scores on the SAT because after testing the tests, they found patterns so they could guarantee passage. And another last thing, I found a YouTube video that I played before these “end of your life” exams. It reminded students that not all of them were good test takers and the tests would only benefit those good at asking them about English and Math. So remember you dancers, artists, musicians, and dreamers, if you do not do well, they weren’t talking to you. I gave them the best of my advantage because, well, I was never supposed to be a teacher because my NTE score was too low (passing was 660; I got a 659). Oh and my GPA was too low. And I was booted from the teaching program Not until I figured out what to study (I found a study guide that paralleled the test), scored extremely high on the NTE and petitioned to be let back into the program…well, that’s how I changed lives including mine. Thanks again.
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I watched the first 20 minutes and then my phone started ringing off the wall…so I will have to try again tomorrow or tomorrow night. We are going to see the movie Eleanor the Great tonight at an artsy theater. Walter “Sandy” Silvers
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Thank you for sharing your remarkable evolution with your readers. You have certainly have had varied life experiences that helped shape the person you are today. It was easy to pick up on the fact that Mr. Discenna had read the book as he referred to specific incidents, people or events. Thank you for all the work you do in support of the nation’s public schools and the many students that depend on them.
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BTW I enjoyed the discussion about standardized testing and reading. While I have been critical of my grandson’s education in Texas, I don’t blame the teachers as they are victims of the same standardized system. You talked about students reading “snipits” instead of books. My grandson is in advanced English this years, and he still is being fed excerpts of books. Compared to my own public education, including my somewhat troubled junior high school experience where I had to do a book report every two weeks, we are impeding their education by such a nonsensical approach to reading and understanding. I leaned so much about the world, people, technology, science, human nature and history from reading both fiction and non-fiction. We’re preparing students to be bots instead of thinkers.
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@retired teacher — Yeppers! I had to use StudySnyc (aka Study Stink). It was difficult to use and it took quite a bit of time to figure out what the heck was going on with the “excerpts.” I spent hours after school researching across the nation on how teachers were using Study Stink; it also made me feel I was sane for my thinking. After I figured that out, I had to figure out how to convey this to the students. They always had the “Huh? Can’t we just read a book?” look. And everything was on grade level despite my readers being “emerging” although in 8th grade heading to high school. And all the questions were the same, i.e., What is the author’s tone, purpose, cost of living in their home town, how many children do they have (you get my gist) but never really questions like: Did you like the story? Who was your favorite character? If you could make the story more relatable to you and your friends, what would you change? (Of course I asked those questions). I hated it and it took so much time to front load. I also used YouTube to explain, e.g., Lord of the Rings. One student of mine got the “Ah, hah!” moment (I believe I got her a copy of the entire book) and she read it three times. She said it was her favorite once she understood. But, as THEY said, “This is so easy, It does all the work for you.” I missed the days of reading for enjoyment with no strings attached and being able to love reading. THEY even told me I could not read out loud to the kids (I did because I could model punctuation, enunciation, and so on). Glad you brought that up.
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The reading of whole books allows for much deeper understanding of the text. It provides context for what was written. Particularly with fiction, without context students are missing out on so much which may relate to history, culture, politics, art, etc. “Snipits” deny students the opportunity to see the bigger picture and connect the dots.
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Thank you for this book, Diane Ravitch! I have ordered it after listening to the interview. Eleanor Leacock wrote a book in the 1950’s entitled Race And Class in NYC Schools. She had to change the title to Teaching and Learning in City Schools. Your book seems like it would be an excellent sequel. I am a retired educator from the NYCPS. As educators, we are harbingers of what is happening in the country. Thank you for your clarity and evolution.
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