In Heather Cox Richardson’s calm response to the Biden v. Trump debate, she said that Trump was using the “Gish Gallop” on Biden by overwhelming him with lies and nonsense. The lies and nonsense came so rapidly and assuredly that Biden was stuck with the choice of responding to them, which would entangle him in a web of Trump’s lies, or leave them unchallenged, as if they were true.
She wrote:
It went on and on, and that was the point. This was not a debate. It was Trump using a technique that actually has a formal name, the Gish gallop, although I suspect he comes by it naturally. It’s a rhetorical technique in which someone throws out a fast string of lies, non-sequiturs, and specious arguments, so many that it is impossible to fact-check or rebut them in the amount of time it took to say them. Trying to figure out how to respond makes the opponent look confused, because they don’t know where to start grappling with the flood that has just hit them.
I looked up the Gish Gallop.
The Gish gallop is a rhetorical technique that involves overwhelming your opponent with as many arguments as possible, with no regard for the accuracy, validity, or relevance of those arguments. For example, a person using the Gish gallop might attempt to support their stance by bringing up, in rapid succession, a large number of vague claims, anecdotal statements, misinterpreted facts, and irrelevant comments.
The Gish gallop is also known as argument by verbosity, proof by verbosity, and shotgun argumentation. It was given the name “Gish gallop” by Professor Eugenie Scott—then the executive director of the National Center for Science Education—who used it to describe the common format of debates with Duane Gish, a Young-Earth creationist, stating that “the creationist is allowed to run on for 45 minutes or an hour, spewing forth torrents of error that the evolutionist hasn’t a prayer of refuting in the format of a debate”.
The Gish gallop is widely used in debates on various topics, so it’s important to understand it.
Yup, that’s Trump. He probably never heard of it. He exemplifies it. He spouts nonsense and lies because it comes naturally to him.
Diane Ravitch's blog 
Good morning Diane and everyone,
I said this exact thing to my husband. Trump just spews everything and Biden doesn’t know where to start. Instead of attempting to respond to this, Biden should recap everything his administration has accomplished and what he wants to do in the future. Completely forget about trying to respond to all the crap, have an answer for the question. Literally IGNORE that Trump is there.
Rhetorical…
If an honest measure of a man is the size of the “thing” that bothers him, does like still dissolve like? Does Mumble in the Jungle dissolve Mumble in the Jungle?
?????????????
Trump is a pathological liar. But it’s even deeper than that. Trump is a pathological liar who, when he makes up a lie, then immediately believes it. He is like the Red Queen:
Alice laughed. “There’s no use trying,” she said: “one can’t believe impossible things.”
“I daresay you haven’t had much practice,” said the Queen. “When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I’ve believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.”
Trump says something he knows to be false. Then, he immediately believes his own falsehood. So, this is not garden-variety con man’s flim-flam. No. Trump is ACTUALLY INSANE. He LITERALLY believes his own falsehoods as soon as he utters them. And he has NO ABILITY TO REFLECT CRITICALLY UPON THEM. This is the essential, defining characteristic of psychosis–the gross distortion of reality. He lives in this Alternative Facts Universe that he has spun out of his ID, as commenter Birdchum says. Birdchum. I freaking love that screen name.
Diane Ravitch continues to discredit herself by endless postings trying to convince readers that they didn’t actually see and hear what they saw and heard on Thursday night. There is still time for her to repair her credibility. When special counsel Robert Hur released his report and stated that he recommended against prosecuting Joe Biden because of his impaired faculties, Ms. Ravitch hurled all manner of invective against Hur. Mr. Hur has proven to be correct. A person of integrity apologizes for making claims against someone else that turn out to be false – here’s your opportunity.
https://jonathanturley.org/2024/06/28/robert-hur-emerges-as-the-clear-winner-in-the-presidential-debate/
Diane has not been trying to convince people that they did not see and hear what they saw and heard. She has been trying to get people to understand that a) Biden’s TEAM has delivered for the people, b) Biden’s TEAM will continue to do that, and c) the alternative (Trump) would be catastrophic. Biden is not so old that he cannot and is not providing direction to his people, and his people have delivered for the American people. See my comparison of the records, below:
Exactamundo, Bob.
Mr. Shepherd,
I know you want to maintain good relations with Diane so you are reluctant to disagree with her. Since the debate, she has quoted numerous people who deny that Biden has a serious problem with cognitive decline. She is clearly trying to persuade others that Biden has no serious medical issues. In response to another commenter, she said that she believes Biden is cognitively fit to serve a second four year term. Absolutely preposterous, as you have said yourself in so many words.
Diane is a dear, dear friend of many years’ standing and one of the brightest people I know. I have enormous respect for her. I’ll leave it at that.
Alas, my comparison of the Biden and Trump records is in moderation. Here:
Trump v. Biden: Comparing the Records | Bob Shepherd | Praxis (wordpress.com)
Did you reach the same conclusion after President Biden’s raucously energetic and sharp State of the Union address a few months ago–which came after the gratuitous Hur Slur? People of integrity apologize for speaking only when the evidence supports their preconceived notions. Here’s your opportunity.
Apples and oranges. Shouting words written on a teleprompter requires far less cognitive ability than responding to moderater questions and to the responses of your debating opponent. And if Hur made gratuitous slurs, let the audio of his interview with Biden be released to the public. That won’t happen because the Attorney General knows that the audio recording would be extremely damaging to Biden – it would corroborate Hur’s conclusion that Biden is seriously cognitively impaired.
This is not a political question – it’s a medical diagnosis. Eventually the public will know how corrupt most journalists and Biden’s doctors have been in lying about his cognitive state. You obviously are OK with such lying.
Bill Kennedy,
Who demonstrated more cognitive fitness to be president in the debate, Biden or Trump?
If you watched the debate and you can’t admit that it is TRUMP who is far more cognitively unfit to be president, then that makes us question every statement out of your mouth. You have a lot of chutzpah insulting Diane Ravitch.
We could all sleep with the supposedly cognitively unfit Biden in office, because RIGHT NOW we know the country is in safe hands with Biden in office. If Trump took over RIGHT NOW, I would be terrified because Trump is unfit by every measure. Trump is cognitively unfit for any job, period. He is cognitively unfit to be a parent or a friend, which is why he has no real friends or even people who would spend any time with him if he wasn’t rich and had power.
Who is MORE cognitively unfit – Trump or Biden? If you can’t answer that because you want to pose as someone who doesn’t want Trump to win, you are simply trolling.
Amen to every phoneme of your post as it rings in my ear. I would also like to ask Bill Kennedy whether he is a neurologist who has conducted a medical examination of Joe Biden’s cognitive capabilities. If not, Mr. Kennedy, then what gives the right to make a medical diagnosis?
That’s the thing, Bill. Yes, Trump sounded more confident, because he didn’t have to remember ANYTHING. He just pulled numbers and information out of his butt. A person can sound very sure of themselves when they are making it all up.
People who are completely insane OFTEN sound very sure of themselves. Insane people don’t doubt the visions and voices they hear are telling them the truth. Just like Trump supposedly believes that he really won the 2020 election and it was his patriotic duty to incite an insurrection and violent overthrow democracy to achieve it.
Bill Kennedy is trying to convince us that the guy I describe above is MORE fit to be president than Biden.
Ironic that it is Bill Kennedy demonstrating his own cognitive failings by viewing Trump as someone more fit to be president than Biden.
It took me two days to interpret what I saw from the debate and here are my conclusion:
My first response the day of the debate: Biden may have to step down and allow someone younger to take his place who has a better chance of beating Traitor Trump. And I thought that the best candidate to BEAT Traitor Trump would be Michelle Obama.
Two days later, and I changed my mind.
Trump spewed the usual lies as fast as he could ignoring any questions. This is the first time I’ve heard of the “Gish Gallup,” and that is what Traitor Trump did.
Trump doesn’t debate. He shouts from his malignant narcissistic bully pulpit.
Traitor Trump is a convicted rapist.
Traitor Trump is a convicted fraud.
Traitor Trump is a convicted felon.
Anyone, and I mean anyone, who still supports Traitor Trump is aiding and abetting a criminal.
Justice Manual | 2474. Elements Of Aiding And Abetting | United States Department of Justice
Bill Kennedy, if that is your real name, I think you are guilty of aiding and abetting a traitor and a convicted felon. I also think you may be a Russian Troll, and/or a MAGA fascist cult loyalist, another traitor to the United States.
And the blog post I got up and wrote at 0200 AM this morning reveals my latest thinking on the results of the debate.
Did Donald Trump Sabotage the Atlanta Debate? – Lloyd’s Anything Blog (lloydlofthouse.org)
Ahahahahaha.
You want your comment to be treated seriously and you’re citing Jonathan Turley as “evidence?”
Get a grip, bro.
His citing Jonathan Turley made me laugh, too. It’s like citing Alito and Clarence Thomas and then ranting at us for not recognizing Alito and Thomas as admirable, unbiased lawyers with the very highest integrity who will “MAGA-splain” to us about why we are wrong.
Maybe that’s unfair to Alito and Thomas to say that they are as bad as Turley. Turley possibly makes them both look halfway decent in comparison.
FactChecking the Biden-Trump Debate – FactCheck.org
Neither man had an impressive grasp of the facts. Even if he tried to be fully honest, Biden’s memory is now too impaired for him to be consistently accurate. Trump is exceedingly lazy, he makes little effort to be well-informed, and by his own admission he makes decisions based on his “gut” feeling rather than by logical reasoning.
I always say that Trump makes a lot of untrue statements. I don’t doubt that he lies a lot, but lying means you’re wrong on the facts, know that you’re wrong, but you say it anyway. Trump is so uninformed that it’s often hard to know if he is merely wrong or if he is deliberately lying.
To sum up, after seeing the debate, it is Biden’s current cognitively fitness for the job as president that concerns you, and not Trump’s.
Your hilarious normalizing of Trump’s cognitive fitness in that description tells readers all they need to know about which candidate you would rather have in charge. I sympathize with how much stress and concern you must have had for the last 4 years because the cognitively impaired Biden is in charge instead of the cognitively superior Trump. I appreciate that you will feel blessed relief when the cognitively impaired Biden is replaced with the opponent – Trump – who you tell us demonstrated superior cognitive fitness in the debate.
The fact remains, Bill Kennedy, that the cognitively impaired Joe Biden had a successful presidency that improved this country and let us sleep at night.
The man you keep trying to present as less cognitively impaired – Trump – had a presidency that was so damaging to this country that we will have to deal with it for decades.
Of course, you probably believe that a sign of cognitively fitness is believing that Trump really won the election in 2020 but Biden “stole” it.
Folks like you keep telling us that we need to get rid of the guy whose reign has been good because the guy who was a disaster and fomented a violent insurrection to destroy democracy is more cognitively fit than Biden.
Stop lying already. If Biden’s last 4 years are an example of what a cognitively unfit president will accomplish and Trump’s 4 years are an example of a guy who you tell us has superior fitness, then I question Bill Kennedy’s cognitive fitness.
Bill, why not post on pro-Trump boards to warn them about how unfit Trump is. Unless you like Trump.
NYC Public Nutcase strikes again. As she so often does, she puts words into the mouths of other people, attributing beliefs to them that they don’t have. Ask Bob Shepherd about this matter – he was the first person on this blog to note this character flaw that NYC Public Nutcase has.
Ideologues cannot imagine that there are any subtleties to any matter, that there are positions that are not either a) theirs or b) the opposite of theirs. And so they don’t bother reading carefully because they don’t think they have to. Any tiny thing triggers the “with me”/’not with me” switch that opens the floodgates.
The big issue is that the race is very tight–neck and neck–and much depends on how the candidates come off to young voters, undecided voters, and independent voters. Yes. Trump is a buffoon and criminal and a traitor and an utter POS. But Biden delivered a disastrous performance, and that was troubling. Most indicative of cognitive decline, I think, is the fact that he had prepped a lot for this debate. Everything that Trump was going to say was utterly predictable. If those prepping him for the debate were at all competent, and I assume they were, then they gave him, to memorize, a brief, fact-based, extremely memorable rejoinder for every anticipated point. But Biden could not remember these, obviously. He was TYPICALLY searching for words. This bothers me not because I think Biden would have a disastrous second term. No, his people would continue, I suspect, much as they have. It bothers me because Biden could lose. And that would be a catastrophe for the United States and for the world. An utter disaster.
Bill Kennedy,
Thank you for providing a prime example of the kind of attacks Bob often makes about my posts.
I am so sorry. I was wrong to assume that your comment above attacking Biden’s cognitive fitness and normalizing Trump’s lies as Trump just being lazy and going with his “gut” was extremely biased FOR Trump.
You avoided answering my question as to whether Biden or Trump was more cognitively fit to be president. And then you attack me for calling out the clear innuendo and bias in the pro-Trump comment you made. With nasty personal attacks. Thanks for explaining you model yourself after Bob Shepherd. That makes all your nasty personal attacks ok in some folks’ eyes.
It’s actually a compliment to me that the guy who is insulting Diane Ravitch with falsehoods is also attacking me. I appreciate that you are invoking Bob Shepherd to justify your personal attacks on me, Bill Kennedy.
My fav meme today: “OK. Alfred might be a little old to take care of the Batcave. But that doesn’t mean that you replace him with The Joker.”
Bob, I saw that meme, too, and was thinking how it perfectly encapsulates the message the Dems should be sending.
Thank you for posting it. Having recently watched the latest Batman trilogy (years after it was made), I have the image of Michael Caine as Biden/Alfred. Definitely looked old, not spry like he was as a young leading man actor, but Caine showed that “old” Alfred was vital to Batman’s saving the world.
We should note that Biden has a documented history of an expressive language disorder. Nerves may play a role in Biden’s stumbling attempt to word find, not necessarily cognition. Stress can often be a trigger for such a spasm.
True, but his facial expressions showed often that he was trying to remember something. I think that his staff tired him out by scheduling other events during this important day. Really stupid, that. And consequential.
How can Trump get away with lying CONTINUALLY? Beats me. It’s a mystery, like the Trinity. However bad Biden’s performance, that crap from Trump should be disqualifying. That it isn’t to large numbers of Americans tells me that I live in a country where have the population is made up of morons.
Trump v. Biden: Comparing the Records
Some are arguing that Biden is too old and is slipping too much to be president. Well, that’s not true, but even if it were, I’ll take a competent corporate Biden presidency over the absolute disaster that was Donald Trump ANY day. To the horror of his Joint Chiefs, Trump abandoned to Assad and the Russians our allies the Kurds, who had helped us defeat ISIL, leading to their SLAUGHTER and to the resignation of his superbly competent SECDEF, James Mattis. He ordered his Secretary of Homeland Security to have the Border Patrol SHOOT innocent, unarmed asylum seekers and, when he was told that could not legally be done, SCREAMED at her while calling her “honey.” Then he suggested that the Border Patrol could “just shoot them in the legs” because Trump gets his ideas from television. In the runup to the 2016 election, Trump actually told a reporter who had asked him where he got his military advice that he got it “from the shows.” President Trump conducted a campaign of mass kidnapping whereby kids as young as little babies were taken from their parents and shipped off God knows where. He completely gutted the Clean Air and Clean Water Acts. He was a one-man environmental catastrophe. He never delivered the healthcare bill that he kept promising “any day now” or “within a week.” He similarly never delivered his infrastructure bill. He increased the federal deficit by 7.8 TRILLION dollars. Both were just examples of his typical bloviating bullshit.
And he thought that stealth airplanes were actually invisible and that we should send astronauts to the sun and nuke hurricanes and sweep forests and buy Greenland and inject disinfectant. He thought that a dementia screening was an IQ test. He thought and still thinks that other countries pay the tariffs we place on their goods. He’s profoundly ignorant about most everything. He has likely never read a book in his adult life.
A choice between Trump and Biden is one between a traitorous, seditious career con man and sexual predator versus a statesman.
This is not a difficult decision to make. If Biden’s presidency is being run by the astonishingly capable people he hired, who cares? At least Biden is not A SICK F–K who keeps talking about how he lusts after HIS DAUGHTER. At least he is not a pathological liar and a malignant narcissist. When Trump finally passes on, his tombstone should read,
Here lies ex-President Trump.
But that’s nothing new.
Ronald Reagan was completely senile during his second term, but he delivered Perestroika and Detente. Biden has great people around him. His PRESIDENCY (the total package, including him and his staff and his agencies and departments) has delivered brilliantly. WE NEED MORE OF THE SAME.
So how is Biden doing? Let’s look at some leading economic indicators:
The current unemployment rate is 4.0 percent, significantly below the historical average of 5.69 percent.
The average annual inflation rate over the past 12 months was 3.3 percent. This is a TINY bit over the average annual inflation rate over the past 20 years, which was 2.51 percent. Hourly wage increases are at an average of 4.1 percent–HIGHER THAN THE INFLATION RATE.
The Dow Jones Industrial Average, today, is 38,589.16 USD. On the last day of the Trump presidency, it was 30,930.52, 7,658.64 points lower. The S&P today is 5431.60. At the end of the Trump presidency, it was 3,798.91, 1632.69 points lower.
Under Biden, American oil production has reached its largest volume in recorded history—more than 13.2 million barrels per day in October, official figures show—outpacing its highest point under Don the Con,13 million barrels daily in November 2019.
Trump tried to bribe Ukraine and delayed aid to that country illegally. He was impeached for this. He says now that he would cut off aid to Ukraine before his second presidency even starts (ofc, he cannot do this; Trump is an idiot and is profoundly ignorant about most everything; he STILL thinks that China pays the tariffs we place on its goods). Trump unilaterally withdrew from the INF and Open Skies treaties at the very time when Putin was fielding hypersonic nuclear missiles. Trump stored top secret documents containing info about our defense capabilities and plans and our intelligence sources and methods, in violation of the Espionage Act, in a freaking bathroom and on the stage in a ballroom at his breathtakingly tacky golf club and home in Flor-uh-duh.
Quite the guy. A career con man who cheated children’s charities, blue-collar contractors, and middle-class people trying to further their educations (with his fake university). A “Christian” who cannot name a single Bible verse and thinks there is a book called “Two Corinthians” (as in “two Corinthians walk into a bar?) and who exemplifies in excess every one of the seven deadly sins. An adjudged fraudster and rapist and lifelong sexual predator. A guy who told a reporter that he was carrying on an affair because his wife had “ruined her body” having children (his children!!!!) and that, being rich, he could have anyone he wanted. What a POS.
You have a way of pulling so much together.
Thanks, RT. The memory of this stuff is so important.
In the case of Trump, it was Gish Tsunami at 7,000 RPM.
Trump doesn’t ever change his rhetorical technique.
I wonder why Biden’s debate trainers didn’t teach Biden to take control of the debate by pointing out in each response to Trump’s statements that Trump had (1) avoided answering the question, and/or (2) jumped from topic to topic, and/or (3) created a tissue of lies. Then each time, from the statement Biden was refuting, Biden should have picked out and confronted just one example of an important point or a deplorable lie. Biden could also have been taught to point out that none of Trump’s answers made a clear point, none was developed logically, and not one presented accurate documentation.
Biden was not capable of doing any of that. His voice was barely audible.
That is a different topic entirely. Politicians need to be able to respond to the rhetorical strategies of their opponents.
It’s the only point that matters. It’s irrelevant whether Biden could have had a different substantive strategy if the end result—mumbling, barely audible, having trouble finishing sentences—would have been the same. And it would have been the same.
That said, if I were coaching Biden, I would tell him to slow down. Stop speed-reciting lists. It’s always been ineffective and it’s even more ineffective when the speaker isn’t physically able to enunciate the words properly. I agree with you (I think) about the importance of making just one point, whether it’s in rebuttal or it’s an affirmative case. Biden needs to slow down, say fewer words, and make fewer points.
And yet the next day, it was much improved.
I read a credible story a few months back that said that according to sources close to the President, he puts in about three hours a day. That’s not surprising for a man in his eighties. I just read that his staff had him do a bunch of other events on the same day as the debate. If so, that’s just idiotic. Anyone who has spent a lot of time with elderly people knows that many of them are good for a few hours a day and then need rest. One of the issues that occurs with aging is that one tires easily, and when one gets tired, a lot of stuff goes to hell–memory, lucidity of thought, speech, perambulation, balance.
“Grandpa has good days and bad days.”
Pssst.. We all have”good days and bad days.”
Herm … I think this is exactly wh
Apples and oranges are both fruits. You missed or are deliberately ignoring the many cogent, on-point responses President Biden made to the moderators’ questions. I note in particular his reply to being asked how he planned to keep Social Security solvent.
Why do so many admirers of Biden want him to step down?
Because they are rightly afraid that the public perception of him as cognitively incapable will doom his candidacy.
Exactly right
I admire Biden due to what he has accomplished as an elected representative of the people starting in 1970.
I think that Biden shows that he is not senile if we pay attention to everything he does, and not only what the MAGA Christian-Nationalist Cult and their Traitor Trump focus on.
Biden is a “member of the Democratic Party, Biden was elected to the New Castle County Council in 1970, and became the seventh-youngest senator in American history when he was elected to the U.S. Senate from Delaware in 1972, at the age of 29. He was re-elected to the Senate six times, and was the fourth-most senior senator.”
Joe Biden, Jr.’s Political Summary
Vote Smart – Facts For All
To learn where President Biden’s wealth came from, one must click on the next link and read the piece that appears.
How The Bidens Earned $16.7 Million After Leaving The White House (forbes.com)
Now, I am going to focus on Traitor Trump.
To do that, I’m going to add a link to a recent blog post I published showcasing Traitor Trump’s decades of history outside of politics.
To compare President Biden to Traitor Trump, an open mind who wants to learn will click the Vote Smart link and learn all they can about Biden’s history in politics.
A closed mind, a troll, a MAGA Christian Nationalist and/or a Traitor Trump loyalist will not click that link. Because they have already made up their mind from what they’ve been programed to think.
Who is the Real Traitor Trump? – Lloyd’s Anything Blog (lloydlofthouse.org)
I also don’t want to ignore where Traitor Trump’s money came from. We know where Biden’s money came from. We should also know where the Traitor go this and it isn’t what he tells us which is more lies.
“Forbes has estimated his wealth for decades and estimates it at $4.9 billion as of June 2024, with Trump making much higher claims. Trump received gifts, loans, and inheritance from his father. His primary business has been real estate ventures, including hotels, casinos, and golf courses.”
How did Donald Trump make his fortune? – BBC News
Show me with the facts from reliable and reputable sources.
Do not bother to tell me with lies and BS!
Biden forgot the first principal of poloitical debate: Don’t answer the question that was asked. Immediatelly turn the question into the question you want to answer.
Trump often began his resposne to the “next question” by reverting to the previous one. This enabled him get the final word in the matter–seeming to refute Biden (Aside: We know it was amplified bullshit) and to avoid addressing a new subject.
Biden looked over-coached. He answered a number of questions in a formulaic way: Point #1 …… Point 2 etc. This llimited his chances to be spontaneous. It seemed rehearsed and scripted.
Unfortunately the incoherent crap Trump threw out so naturaully won the debate over a guy who is so much smarter.
That debate went horribly wrong for Biden and the dems . Not so bad for Obama, great for Trump. Not exactly sure what lies you are all talking about . Funny thing is, lies you are hearing are the truth . Sadly, Diane has succumbed to what we call TDS. She has been fed the lies for 10 plus years and many others here. It’s hard to hear Nancy Pelosi admitted on her daughters video she was to blame. Charlottesville which Biden looked horribly stupid was debunked 7 years ago and just recently even Snopes said it was not true. Hard to swallow and difficult to know you have been lied to with Russia Howx , Smolett Hoax, Ukraine Howx, and soo many more irs hard for your brains to realize you have been wrong .
Ms. Right, you could not have made a better case for Biden. I know if I say that your post demonstrates that you are rabidly pro-Trump, the resident tone police haters here will jump on me for “putting words in your mouth” and invoke Bob Shepherd. How dare I read your comment and refer to you being pro-Trump, when any rational person reading your comment would understand that you are a fair-minded, intelligent and unbiased person who is just providing fair and balanced information about how Biden is unfit to be president.
Ms. Right, you have posted a lot here in the last 2 days and no doubt folks believed your earlier comments were just fact-based analysis that Biden isn’t fit to be president. I find it depressing when trolls fool intelligent folks who don’t see the propaganda in their one-sided posts amplifying the “Biden is too cognitively unfit to be president” narrative.
I suspect most folks here who aren’t trolls know Trump is too cognitively unfit to be president.
You can recognize the trolls by their unwillingness to make the same sweeping attacks on Trump’s fitness to be president as they do to Biden.
But thanks for revealing yourself with this comment. I suspect you will have to use a new screen name to post more of your anti-Biden propaganda.
So if we fact check your screed we will find it completely factual and accurate? Try again. NYC is “right.” After this post you will need a new screen name.
Telling more right-wing lies, Ms. “Right”, shows how little you actually know and how immoral you are.
Are you a Trumper, or a Russian troll?
Hint: neither is good.
Sound advice for Biden from inside the left-wing bubble.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/29/opinion/biden-debate-president-exit.html
For people who want to believe that only Trump supporters think that Biden has suffered cognitive decline, read a few dozen of the reader comments in the NYT op-ed by Maureen Dowd that I linked to above. Here is a representative comment:
“I am an age peer of Biden. Based upon sad personal experience I can assure Biden that you cannot beat the house. You cannot avoid the erosion of mental acuity and physical stamina as you move through the eighties. There was obvious decline in mental acuity on Thursday. That is not reversible. Biden is a great American who loves his country passionately. That passion will be best served if he passes the WH baton to a next generation Democrat. There is no better way for Biden to serve his country.”
I agree.
I don’t disagree.
Here is another comment:
“One comment made by the many pundits analysis of debate night was the observation that there is a difference between “governing” and “performing.” President Biden is very good at governing and terrible at performing. Trump the exact opposite, great performer, terrible at governing. It is the rare President that is good at both—Lincoln and FDR come to mind. The reality in today’s world of media, is the public values performance over governing—a terrible turn of events for a democracy, but, that is the reality. I will leave it at that.”
“Read Heather Cox Richardson’s piece from June 27. Everyone has been so quick to dogpile on Biden, make this all about Biden’s age, ignoring his opponent who just spewed a torrent of lies for 90 minutes. Yes, Biden is old. So he looks and acts old. He is also running the country quite well, because he has decent values, has integrity, and chooses good people for his cabinet. So I’m standing by him. My far bigger concern is the failure of the media to ever call out Trump on his lies and his own signs of aging and incompetence. Trump is corrupt and selfish to his rotten core, yet he consistently gets a pass from those who are supposed to call him out for each and every lie that comes out of his mouth. So nitwits who have the right to vote but don’t know the facts, watch the debate and come away impressed by Trump’s confident, aggressive delivery. Never mind the actual veracity of what he says. And yes, I get it, optics do matter. But the least the media can do here is balance the scales. Is it too much to ask the media to simply do their job?”
Which he should start doing immediately AFTER he wins the election. None of the next generation have the name recognition and/or the national experience that would make them a winning candidate in November.
The vice president does. She may have other liabilities, but she possesses both of the characteristics name.
Sorry—the previous post should end with “characteristics you name.” This is my second omission of a word on Diane’s blog today. It’s time for a cognitive test. Hope I ace it!
Ah, or as Donald Trump calls dementia screenings, “IQ Tests.” How does one get to be his age and not know the freaking difference between a dementia screening and an IQ test. This may be the dumbest adult being I’ve ever encountered, and millions of Americans think he is a genius. This makes my head hurt. Who would have known that we live in a nation of morons?
Maureen Dowd?
Grasshoppa, when things go over your head, standing on your soap box won’t help. Talk does not cook rice…
Rice does not usurp cartography, except lemonwise and rolf.
Swimming, that is, jejunely, lanquidly, Socratically, mintily with the crackling, fluid perihelion, as they (post Derrida) say interstitially ex cathedra
We’ve now gone full blown Joyce!
Bannon calls it “flooding the zone with shit,” or something like that. They’ve been doing it since 2016. Not expecting Trump would do this and not having some plan for combatting it is incomprehensible. Also, negotiating a debate with Trump with CNN that allows him a platform to spew his shit unfact-checked, and having no other plan to rebut what you had to know was coming is, again, incomprehensible.
I’ve seen snippets of the debate, near its beginning, I think, senior moments that cannot be explained away by a cold or a stutter. Biden looked slack-jawed and stricken, something was up there that should not be ignored.
Regardless, I’d vote for Biden over Trump if Biden had to be wheeled into his inauguration on a stretcher. And I have absolutely no doubts about Harris finishing Biden’s job should it come to that.
In other words, I’d vote for any Dem, anyone, over Trump: the differences between the parties right now– women, immigration, climate change, the economy, foreign affairs, human rights, separation of church and state, anything, really, has never been starker or more imperative in my lifetime. The key here, the only thing that matters, is defeating in November the violent fascism Trump and the Republicans represent.
That said, should Biden step aside the nomination has to go to Harris. Whitmer, Newsom, Shapiro, whoever, might be fine people and should have bright futures in Democratic politics. But passing over Harris would be the stupidest unforced error by a Dem leadership that has been smarter and more effective these past four years than I expected.
Also, say Biden stays in it. No way should he debate Trump again.
This is a guy who still insists he won 2020, has been indicted for trying to overthrow that election, and will not commit to accepting the outcome of the November election. Biden should do absolutely nothing to legitimize Trump’s candidacy.
I know the Republicans and SCOTUS want to gaslight us otherwise, pretend the traitor and convicted felon is legitimate, and the major media help them do so, but Biden and the Dems should have none of it. One response: See you in November.
Biden has good days and bad days. He should definitely debate Trump again. Rested and on the top of his game, as at the State of the Union. People need to see him in better shape, if that is possible. If it is not, then he should step aside.
I like Harris, but her approval ratings are even lower than are Biden’s, which are abysmal. She would lose. The unspeakable would happen. That vile lowlife traitorous filth would be in the Oval Office again. A catastrophe for the U.S. and the world.
Correct.
Nailed it.
Here’s the best, most evidence-based editorial on the debate that I’ve seen so far. It puts – rightfully so – the NY Times debate editorial to shame.
Bravo, Philadelphia Inquirer.
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“Joe Biden’s debate performance was a disaster…But lost in the hand wringing was Donald Trump’s usual bombastic litany of lies, hyperbole, bigotry, ignorance, and fear mongering. His performance demonstrated once again that he is a danger to democracy and unfit for office… The only person who should withdraw from the race is Trump… To build himself up, Trump constantly tears the country down…Throughout the debate, Trump repeatedly said we are a ‘failing’country. He called the United States a ‘third world nation.’ He said, ‘we’re living in hell’ and ‘very close to World War III.’
Trump told more than 30 lies during the debate to go with the more than 30,000 mistruths told during his four years as president. He dodged the CNN moderators’ questions, took no responsibility for his actions, and blamed others, mainly Biden, for everything that is wrong in the world… Trump’s response to the Jan. 6, 2021, insurrection he fueled was farcical. He said a ‘relatively small number of people’ went to the Capitol and many were ‘ushered in by the police.’… The debate served as a reminder of what another four years of Trump would look like. More lies, grievance, narcissism, and hate. Supporters say they like Trump because he says whatever he thinks. But he mainly spews raw sewage.
Trump attacks the military. He denigrates the Justice Department and judges. He belittles the FBI and the CIA. He picks fights with allies and cozies up to dictators…Trump is an unserious carnival barker running for the most serious job in the world. During his last term, Trump served himself and not the American people… As president, Trump didn’t read the daily intelligence briefs. He continued to use his personal cell phone, allowing Chinese spies to listen to his calls. During one Oval Office meeting, Trump shared highly classified intelligence with the Russian foreign minister and ambassador.
Trump’s term did plenty of damage and had few accomplishments. The much-hyped wall didn’t get built. Infrastructure week was a recurring joke. Giant tax cuts made the rich richer, while fueling massive deficitsfor others to pay for years. His support for coal, oil drilling and withdrawal from the Paris Agreement worsened the growing impact of climate change… Trump stacked the judiciary with extreme judges consisting mainly of white males, including a number who the American Bar Association rated as not qualified. A record number of cabinet officials were fired or left the office. The West Wing was in constant chaos and infighting.
Many Trump appointees exited under a cloud of corruption, grifting and ethical scandals. Trump’s children made millions off the White House. His dilettante son-in-law got $2 billionfrom the Saudi government for his fledgling investment firm even though he never managed money before…Trump’s mismanagement of the pandemic resulted in tens of thousands of needless deaths. He boasts about stacking the Supreme Court with extreme right-wingers who are stripping away individual rights, upending legal precedents, and making the country less safe. If elected, Trump may add to the court’s conservative majority.
Trump is a convicted felon who is staring at three more criminal indictments. He is running for president to stay out of prison…If anything, Trump doesn’t deserve to be on the presidential debate stage. Why even give him a platform?..Trump allegedly stole classified information and tried to overturn an election. His plans for a second term are worse than the last one. We cannot be serious about letting such a crooked clown back in the White House.
Yes, Biden had a horrible night. He’s 81 and not as sharp as he used to be. But Biden on his worst day remains lightyears better than Trump on his best…He has a substantive record of real accomplishments, fighting the pandemic, combating climate change, investing in infrastructure, and supporting working families and the most vulnerable…Biden has surrounded himself with experienced people who take public service seriously. He has passed major bipartisan legislation despite a dysfunctional Republican House majority…Biden believes in the best of America. He has rebuilt relationships with allies around the world and stood up to foes like Russia and China.
There was only one person at the debate who does not deserve to be running for president. The sooner Trump exits the stage, the better off the country will be.”
To serve his country, Donald Trump should leave the race | Editorial Board
inquirer.com
Amen
Just because Biden and Trump are standing at podiums in the same room on a stage does not mean it’s a debate. Nobody can debate Trump because it’s not a debate. It’s a shit show. When a question comes up about, let’s say, immigration, Biden should give his accomplishments and tell what he wants to do in the next 4 years. Do this for every issue. Don’t get into it with Trump at all. Don’t get into the, “My d— is bigger than yours” smack talk (ex. the whole golf handicap conversation). Call out the fact that Trump is making no sense with what he is spewing and then give accomplishments and plans for the future. That’s it. Pretend he’s not even there. If Biden is going to do this again, it’s the best strategy he can use.
I also think we need fact checking in real time.
Mamie, that’s what Trump did. Ignored the moderators and Biden to give his stump speech.
I do not need the NYC public nutcase to get nutty on me. Already nuts as is . I didn’t know 2-3 posts in a week is horrible whereas you are posting constant gibberish daily. You only accept folks who believe your faulty perceptions of everything going on. You were fine with mandated vaccine and masks how democratic you are .
Anyways, the dems are in panic as they should and arresting Trump or even using the illegals to steal an election won’t happen .
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
I confess that I feel quite flattered that MS. Right keeps insulting me by name.
If MS. Right was praising and complimenting me, I would consider checking myself into a psychiatric institution which would hopefully treat my delusions.
It is indeed an endorsement of one’s character and ethics to be insulted by anyone who uses the dehumanizing slur “illegals.” Mazeltov!