As a secular Jew, I find it hard to write about the Hasidic community at a time of rising anti-Semitism. But the way they have organized their political power in New York to protect their religious schools is a cautionary tale. They have amassed political power by voting as a bloc. They have used that political clout to gain huge amounts of public money to fund schools that don’t teach English and don’t teach most secular subjects, even though state law requires them to offer an education that is equivalent to a secular school. They ignore the law because they have friends in high places.
The New York Times told the story on Sunday. The Hasidic community is about 200,000, or 1% of the state’s population. Their first priority is to protect their schools. State law says that religious schools, which receive public funding for required services, like transportation and special education, must offer education equivalent to public schools. Recently a state court fined one of thr state’s largest yeshivas $8 million for misusing public funds. The Times previously reported that the 100 of the state’s yeshivas have received more than $1 billion in public funds in the past four years. Most don’t take the state tests but when some did recently, not one student passed the tests. Why? Because they are taught in Yiddish or Hebrew, and many never study history, science or other secular subjects.
The secret of their power was the relationships they cultivated with politicians. Andrew Yang sought their support when he ran for NYC mayor but it was too late: they had already pledged their loyalty to Eric Adams, who won. To win their support means hands off their schools but keep the money flowing. On election night, a Hasidic leader was on the dais with Eric Adams. They previously forged close relationships with Rudy Guiliani and other mayors and governors.
As the Times reported:
During last year’s mayoral primary in New York City, Andrew Yang, then a leading Democratic candidate, made a calculated investment: If he could make meaningful inroads into the Hasidic Jewish community, its bloc of votes could help carry him to victory.
He hired a Hasidic Democratic leader in Brooklyn as his Jewish outreach director. He publicly pledged not to interfere with Hasidic Jewish religious schools, which were being investigated over whether they were providing a basic education. Still, some were not persuaded.
“I told him he might be a very nice person, but I don’t know him,” said Rabbi Moishe Indig, a leader of the Satmar Hasidic group in Williamsburg, Brooklyn. “I said we have a good history with someone who is here for years; we know that he cares for the community. It’s not nice to take an old friend and throw him under the bus.”
That old friend was Eric Adams, then the Brooklyn borough president, who won the primary and became mayor in January. Mr. Adams, like Mr. Yang, has been supportive of the Jewish schools’ independence, saying on the eve of his inauguration that they generally served as the basis for a “well-rounded quality education.”
Particularly disgusting is the Orthodox takeover of school boards in communities in Rockkand County and in New Jersey where their own children do not attend the public schools. The school boards use their power to cut school budgets and to direct public funds to their yeshivas. The children in public schools in these districts suffer the cuts and lack of voice.
Politicians offer services beyond protection of the religious schools.
As mayor, Michael R. Bloomberg once drew more than 10,000 members of the Hasidic community to a rally where they filled six blocks of bleachers. In 2004, he helped bring water from the New York City drinking supply to Kiryas Joel, a village 50 miles outside the city — a project still ongoing.
Mr. de Blasio worked with Orthodox leaders to ease regulations of a circumcision ritual, metzitzah b’peh, that led to numerous babies becoming infected with herpes.
Mr. de Blasio also faced scrutiny in 2019 for acting too slowly to declare a public health emergency in Orthodox communities in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, over a measles outbreak and for not requiring vaccination sooner. The community also resisted vaccination requirements during the coronavirus pandemic, and cases were often higher in their neighborhoods.
In this year’s governor’s race, Mr. Zeldin is enthusiastically courting Hasidic leaders,many of whom are concerned over new state rules requiring private schools to prove they are teaching English and math. Mr. Zeldin, who is Jewish, has defended the schools in his visits to Hasidic areas in Brooklyn and Rockland County, and frequently mentions that his mother once taught at a yeshiva, although it is unclear if it was a Hasidic school.
Many Democratic leaders are also hesitant to criticize yeshivas, or call for greater oversight of them, including Governor Hochul, who said in response to The Times’s investigation that regulating the schools was not her responsibilit
Unfortunately, the otherwise excellent Times article did not mention one of the leading critics of the yeshivas, Naftuli Moster, who organized a group of yeshiva graduates to call attention to the failure of the yeshivas to provide a secular education. Moster was born to a Hasidic family of 17 children. He attended college and then earned a degree in social work. He was keenly aware of the limitations of his yeshiva education. He founded Young Advocates for Fair Education(Yaffed), an advocacy organization dedicated to ensuring that students at Hasidic yeshivas in New York City be given a secular education.

Unfortunately, this NYT article unfortunately left out the fact that de Blasio slow-walked the investigation of substandard education provided by many Hassidic Yeshivas in 2017 as a promise to certain Legislators in return for their decision to support the renewal of mayoral control. This was first revealed by NY Post but subsequently reported afterwards by many other media outlets, which published leaked emails from then mayoral adviser Karin Goldmark, who later was appointed Deputy Chancellor. In an email, Goldmark told de Blasio that they had made clear to Legislators that the city would go easy on the yeshivas:
“We have made clear that when we do issue a report it will be gentle and will cite progress (assuming progress continues). We have not said that we won’t make findings, but we have gently hinted at that,” she wrote. https://nypost.com/2020/05/09/internal-emails-reveal-mayor-bill-de-blasio-helped-stall-yeshiva-probe/
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Hello Diane: “The secret of their power was the relationships they cultivated with politicians.”
But of course, no other group does this sort of thing (snicker alert). But I see more of a problem in the tribalization of the curriculum than in the funding.
In my view, Reagan did democracy a massive disservice when he said “Government IS the problem.” In saying so, he opened the door for all sorts of private concerns (political, religious, and otherwise) to fill the vacuum he created between “the people” and their SECULAR/democratic government with propaganda and absences of knowledge, rather than with an education of whole persons.
At least in part, we are presently suffering the effects of that vacuum. In education, if we have to continue suffering Bill Gates, we should encourage him to fund the arts, which has been shown, over and over again, to build the ground for mathematics. CBK
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Kudos to you for writing this note, Diane, btw. CBK
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Well said.
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I do not think anyone needs to be apologetic about feeling differently than some sub-group of his or her fellows. I have much in common with people for whom I have associations that border on kinship. But there are great differences I feel with these same people.
The relationship between a pluralistic society and populations that wish to be separated is fraught with problems
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Couldn’t agree more with this. Well stated.
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Apparently today’s election in Israel pit some of the same forces opposite each other.
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Hello Roy and Diane: The problem is universally human, and it manifests itself in groups in different places and times throughout history. Being biased, as a matter of course, against one group or another is about naivete and often about extreme dogmatism (aka ignorance and shortsightedness and then again HATE) more than it has with any specific group as somehow “less” or completely different from another.
But such activities, like bias itself, t goes back to different forms and expressions of human development and distortions of it. CBK
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One of my Jewish friends whose husband was the president of B’nai B’rith in NYS at the time urged me to not buy a home certain neighborhoods of Rockland County because of the Hassidic community’s history of ignoring rules and regulations. One of the causes of the rapid spread and high death rate in the early days of Covid was the refusal of the large Hassidic community to isolate and wear masks. I don’t wish to malign any community either, but this one has been gaming the system for years and costing the taxpayers a fortune when politicians continuously appease their demands and ignore accountability.
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Dare I presume to offer a tiny correction? You wrote, “Their first priority is to protect their schools.” I would say their first priorities is to protect their privilege and their insularity, in whichever order one chooses.
Thank you for what you do. wp
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I accept the correction. The schools are central to preserving their insularity. Like many religious schools, they indoctrinate their students.
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Diane You do so much good, it’s amazing. And thank you for your note (here somewhere). . . I read all of your main posts, but not the responses anymore (only a very few, and the ones that I respond to), and I forward many to my friends and colleagues, and some to the National Literacy Association.
But I want to be careful in my praise in Linda’s presence, because she has said before that, like all Catholics, I am bowing mindlessly to the “authority.” Oh, well. . . CBK
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CBK,
A dear friend who is a religious brother shared dinner recently and told me about his cousin’s experience in childbirth. The doctors knew the mother was unlikely to survive the birth of her child, for medical reasons. She gave birth, became terribly disabled, and died a few years later. Not all Catholics believe the doctrine.
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If readers of blog comments have read the 63% statistic that I cite repeatedly, they understand the reciprocal, 37%, is proof that no claim about “all” has been made.
I have no idea why anyone would attribute to me a comment like, “bowing mindlessly to authority.” I assume that most people make conscious choices of action.
When I puzzle about motivations, my first thought is what gain made them select the action.
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I as an Orthodox Jew support yeshivas giving the education that parents want. If you don’t like it you do not have to send your kids there. The public school system is fraught with danger. No yeshiva needs to have police checking their students for guns.
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“If you don’t like it you do not have to send your kids there.”
And taxpayers do not have to send their $$$ to said schools.
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Heshy,
I agree with you.
You should send your children to the school of your choice, even if they don’t learn English, science, or history.
But if the school doesn’t meet state standards, it should not get public money.
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The parents sending their kids to private schools are taxed to pay for kids in public schools. Public schools spend over 25 thousand per kid while private schools cost from 4500 to 9500 on average. The city and state save tons of money because a hundred thousand jewish kids don’t attend public schools. So the meager support given to yeshivas is bus transportation and lunches. Some tutoring which is given to public school kids as well.
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If you want to raise your children to learn in Yiddish or Hebrew, that’s your right. But don’t expect the public to pay for an education that doesn’t include English, history, or science, as the state requires.
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The city could never handle a hundred thousand jewish kids entering their public schools. They are having problems just with 5000 illegal immigrant kids. You would have to build massive school buildings in a city that has no space. They are more than happy keeping the jewish kids in yeshivas. Financially the city comes out winning. The sad part is about the secular Jewish kids not getting a jewish education and going lost. They have no future as Jews and usually intermarry and go lost. Religious Jews marry young and can have as many as 10 to 18 kids. There are in fact two ladies who each have 22 kids. One lives in Boro park and the other in Flatbush. It’s only a matter of a decade where Orthodox Judaism will be the largest jewish denomination.
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What happens to the kids who go to your school and can’t read English, know no science, advanced math, of history.
People who have no children pay taxes for public schools. So do those whose children have graduated. Public school is a public service that everyone pays for, whether they use them or not. Like police, firefighters, highways. I have never called the police or firefighters, but gladly pay taxes to support them for the entire community.
Orthodox Jews must pay for their own schools, which are not open to everyone.
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You ask what happens to kids who don’t know science or advanced math. How will they make a living. I know many people with advanced degrees who don’t have jobs. On the other hand I know many who never went to college or even high school who are extremely wealthy. Today there are many young chassidim who speak English with a yiddish accent and own massive amount of real estate throughout America as well as the world. Drive by areas like Boro park Brooklyn and see the massive new construction sites for housing and yeshivas. You see young chassidim directing the construction. The same is with on line sales. Making money is not dependent on knowing evolution or other such strange ideas. The biggest electronic dealer in America B and H photo knows nothing about secular education. You hire lawyers and accountants to do the legal work.The study of Torah and Talmud makes you very sharp. Just the other day I met this satmar Chassidic guy about 30 years old I know and he directs construction of this nine story building. He does not have to know public school history or science to be successful. Orthodox Jewish areas always go up in price. Non jewish areas are for the most part way cheaper. Look how in New Jersey where thousands of young Orthodox Jews are moving to start creeping up in price as they move in. Jackson,Toms River,Howell and all areas near Lakewood. Same is upstate New York near Monsey. Areas like pamona,airmont,etc are all turning very religious. Yes there are poor people in every society. But the amount of multi millionaires and billionaires are very high among chassidim. The yeshivash world a bit less despite having more of an English education than chassidim.
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So according to your Orthodox logic, those who do not learn English, science, math or history and have no contact with anyone but other Orthodox Jews, are likeliest to succeed and become fabulously wealthy. Why are so many in the Orthodox community living in poverty? I don’t understand.
It seems you are quoting a line from George Orwell: “Ignorance is strength.”
Do you know who George Orwell was? Do the Orthodox children read “1984” or “Animal Farm” or other literature? Or do they read only the Talmud and the Torah?
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“How the American Catholic Church became powerful in advancing the GOP agenda in states and in the nation”
Unlike the Hassidic community referenced, the Catholic Church doesn’t limit itself to protection of religious schools, the Church targets and wins in legislatures and in courts against women’s rights.
Headlines indicate that Pope Francis is shoring up a relationship with Islam’s leaders. Never underestimate the resolve of the Catholic Church to perpetuate a male patriarchy with religious men in power.
Examples of how the Church gained its power-
(1) Experiences like those of Amanda Marcotte (Wikipedia) who faced smear campaigns (2) well-positioned tribalists creating a narrative for media (3) connections with wealthy, political libertarians who promote Republicans (4) the creation and funding of state Catholic Conferences which act as the political arm of the bishops (5) a PR offensive that perpetuates myths about discrimination against Catholics and that steers the public to believe erroneously that Catholics and their Church lean liberal (6) the size of the Church’s coffers
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“There are in fact two ladies who each have 22 kids.”
If one is looking for a reason NOT to publicly fund schools that don’t adhere to minimal math and science requirements, one need look no further.
No “advanced” math required to understand the problem.
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The math of rabbits is actually pretty simple.
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Heshy-
Your type of advocacy allowed taxpayers to make Catholic organizations the 3rd largest U.S. employer. One out of 6 U.S. hospitals are Catholic. The conservative Catholic SCOTUS, exempted religious schools from civil rights employment law. Predictably, all other religious institutions will be exempted. There is a Catholic Medical Association and a Catholic Bar Association.
You should read the new book, based on recently- released archives from the Vatican, about the Pope and Hitler and Mussolini.
Jefferson warned, in every age, in every country, the priest aligns with the despot. The history of the Jewish population indicates fascism doesn’t end well for Jews. The U.S. (and Russia) stopped Hitler. Rhetorically, who stops a fascist U.S.?
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You had to go there! As if I was not depressed enough. Had the Japanese not bombed Pearl Harbor we might never have entered that war. Right Wing Republicans were accusing Roosevelt of precipitating the attack on Pearl Harbor with an Oil Embargo against Japan. Accusing him of allowing it to happen. Lindbergh and Henry Ford NAZI sympathizers before the war. The attack forced them underground with their views. Today the difference is Pearl Harbor might be called a false flag !
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Food for thought!
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If Roosevelt actually did not know of the Japanese plan to attack Pearl Harbor, it would have to be the case that he was not informed of that by folks in the Navy who had intercepted and decrypted messages indicating as much.
https://www.independent.org/issues/article.asp?id=408
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Linda . . . Still BLA-BLA-BLA-ing, I see. . . how many times have you repeated the same stuff about Jefferson, Hitler, Mussolini, etc., and the Catholic Church.
I tuned back in, and am leaving quickly. You’d be much more helpful if you’d get your head out of . . . that biased bag you think in. And BTW there is a liberal branch of the Catholic Church, as I am sure there is in the Jewish faith traditions. Try reading Commonweal Magazine. The only monolithic religious idea is located in your mind. CBK
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CBK,
Please don’t leave. I know the liberal wing of the Catholic Church. I know priests and nuns who were upset by Dobbs, overturning abortion rights.
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Catherine
My inclination is to ignore your attack as I have countless times. But, as I explained to readers in an earlier thread, psychologists say that a, “no response,” action to a personality type like yours, will escalate your attacks.
I don’t like to increase Diane’s reading nor, to legitimize you with an answer. Under the circumstances, I’m given no choice but to reply.
Jewish, pro-democracy people and atheists, etc. should be warned about and they have every reason to fear the rise of the political alliance of conservative Catholics and evangelicals.
Readers can form their own opinion about how defenders of weaponized sects that advance reactionary policy conduct their arguments, by reading your comments here and in your prior personal attacks against me.
Since you said, you are “leaving”, you won’t have the opportunity to read my comment below at 11:54 which describes the cruelty of the Catholic doctrine that prohibits birth control. The clear and present threat is that it will become government policy following Roe’s overturn by conservative Catholic jurists on SCOTUS who make decisions in service to their religion.
I recommend all Americans read, “The new official contents of sex education in Mexico: laicism in the crosshairs,” posted at the Scielo site. Yes, I have referenced the article which is broader in scope than the title indicates, before. There may be new readers to the Ravitch comment thread who haven’t learned about it.
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Hello Linda AGAIN, your response to my notes tells me that you still haven’t understood my criticisms of your posts. For new readers here, it’s an old and hashed over argument. I happen to agree with the arguments, e.g., about abortion and all-things-totalitarian about ANY religious group and consider their takeover of SCOTUS, if not a death knell to democracy, very close to it. We’ll see. . . .
The argument from a totalitarian mindset in ANY religion, including “the Catholics,” Jews, and evangelicals, however, is that, yes, we want a religious state, as long as it OUR religion. It’s basically a prescription to a return to tribal warfare; it’s uncivilized, and, in our time self-destructive, at least. Then we can add Putin whose “religion” is no religion at all, but rather anti-human.
My problem with your avalanche of anti-Catholicism, however, IS personal . . . precisely because your own brand of complaint about Catholicism sounds very much like anti-Semitism. Just change “Semitism” to “Catholic” and you have the same disgusting way of thinking. But apparently you cannot hear that, and write as though you insist that I and all-things-Catholic are the stereotype you have in your head, e.g., I am and all Catholics are anti-abortion (no, we are not). But yes, after all this time, it’s personal: You are your own worst enemy here; aka: God, are you just dumb? And BTW, not ALL priests align with despots (duh); and many do so to keep from being killed. (Your quoted book has MANY well-known flaws.)
So (as I have said many times here before, for those who are new here) I agree with at least some of your complaints about Catholic personal and political over-reach (and also evangelical), but not the bag of over-generalizations (like Jefferson’s despot quote) and stereotypical blocks that your thinking is so obviously couched in. CBK
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Please don’t read my following reply to Catherine. The back and forth makes her and me both look small.
I understand you, Catherine, but, I won’t delve into my observations, that’s hitting below the belt.
You can feel as threatened as you choose to by the info. I write about the Catholic church’s politicking for the right wing. The amount of bad v. good, your support for or opposition to church doctrine and practices isn’t interesting, IMO.
I will not stand down against an organization with political power that threatens to maim, to lead to the death of or threatens economic opportunity for women. Sects with low national numbers (2-3% of the pop.) and/or that are, in states where I don’t have knowledge about the politics or prevailing culture, won’t be the subject of my comments. Deem it unfair if you want to.
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Linda: You keep proving my point. “Please don’t read my following reply to Catherine.”
I didn’t think your mind could close any tighter than it already was. Apparently: wrong again.
BTW, we INVITE FASCISM into the vacuum when we refuse to acknowledge positive movements already at work in ANY group, and especially in religion as such (which, it seems to me, what it is really about).
But I forgot again, your method of discourse is about pushing your own bias and stereotypical “small” ideas; like all fascists, riding into political discourses on a warped dialectic that “forgets” or disregards any truths but your own, and so soiling the whole thing.
The only question is whether or not you know what you are doing. CBK
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Again Catherine, I refrain from insulting you but, I am forced to reply because if I don’t, you will escalate. You will not succeed in your tactic of putting me on the defense. What you write about me personally should be viewed by all, through the lens that shows you as quick to insult without substantiation.
You have chosen to be part of an organization that overtly discriminates against women and gays. The Church’s money is used politically to deny equal rights to gay people and women. The Church’s PAID staff, congregants like Barrett and Kavanaugh and, its leaders have put girls and women’s lives at risk through forced pregnancy (Church doctrine).
Report back when the liberal minority in the Church affects change that leads to acceptance of LGBTQ and women’s rights and prohibits the Church’s money from being spent (in the millions) to keep women and gays as 2nd class citizens. When Catholic universities reject Koch and his social Darwinism, report back. When the Church uses its sophisticated political operation including its state Catholic Conferences to lead the campaign to promote democracy (majority opinion rule), report back. When the Church leaders are a substantial force in the campaign to restore separation of church and state, report back.
You have a hope and a wish that the Church would change. Neither word has power.
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As usual, I will refrain from insulting Catherine. However, if I don’t reply she will escalate.
It will be worthy of note,
when the Catholic church stops using its money (in the millions) to politically keep women and gays in 2nd class citizenship,
when Catholic universities denounce Charles Koch and his social Darwinism,
when the Church’s PAID staff, congregants like Barrett and Kavanaugh and its leaders demonstrate that they subscribe to majority rule (democracy),
when the Church- funded organizations created for political purposes e.g. state Catholic Conferences lead the campaign for separation of church and state instead of working to overturn the founding principle then, people who rely on wishing and hoping for Church change can make a claim that the two words have power.
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Linda, I think Catherine hit her stride right here: “BTW, we INVITE FASCISM into the vacuum when we refuse to acknowledge positive movements already at work in ANY group.” The message is about binary vision, and divisiveness: ‘it’s them vs us,’ ‘you’re either with us or against us,’ is populist propaganda designed to discourage any trust in institutions. You may not think you do that, but in fact many times you have questioned the moral consistency of anyone simply seeking a place to sit & pray in a ritual that resonates with them spiritually, regardless of what political machinations are happening in the hierarchy– that they should be political activists or leave.
This ignores that institutions— not just govts, but even churches—are made up of a wide spectrum of people with varying opinions that morph over time. Institutions like the Catholic church may seem to be a backward, anachronistic tyranny leading obedient ‘sheeple.’ But they too—however slowly—have to change with the times or die. And in fact, in most congregations in most sects, there is always a cohort that seeks to bring a backward church forward, as regards morals/ inclusivity.
This has no bearing on my gratefulness to you for sharing info over yrs now, showing that my faith organization is as guilty as Prot Evangelists in supporting a political movement directly contrary to my own political leanings. But my sense is: the place to confront that is in the political sphere. Even churches, supposedly ‘moral,’ are bureaucratic orgs which will follow the $ to keep themselves afloat—especially in this swiftly secularizing era. The culprit here, IMHO, is a govt/ judiciary which has been chipping away at the separation of church and state for decades.
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Bethree-
What points would you make in your personal reconciliation of the millions that the Church spends politically to keep gays and women as 2nd class citizens?
What attribution of success do you give to the Catholic Church (1) in getting tax dollars that position Catholic organizations as the U.S.’ 3rd largest employer (2) in achieving Roe’s overturn (3) in the election of politicians like Ron Johnson (please read my 9:04 comment to Diane’s 11-3 post about Big Oil), (4) in electing Trump in 2016 and the attempt in 2020 (remember the photo op at the Knights of Columbus shrine after Trump’s walkabout with an upside down Bible?), (5) in legislating school choice (self-admitted ownership) in states like Indiana, etc.?
The number who fight theocracy including those who refuse to enable it will determine whether democracy survives.
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Bethree
“Chipping away” is initiated and implemented by people. It doesn’t spring out of nowhere!!!!!
All 5 Wis. Catholic Bishops supported the judicial nomination of Gordon Giampietro according to Sen. Ron Johnson. Johnson publicly made the statement so as to undermine support for Sen. Tammy Baldwin, a Democrat who opposed the nomination.
Leonard Leo, a conservative Catholic with 9 kids, filled the courts with conservative appointees via his position with the Federalist Society and via right wing politicians elected with the support of conservative religionists.
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To Heshy, I also wondered why parents unhappy with their kids not being taught basic academics don’t just switch to another school. So I asked and found they feel there is no alternative because they are in tightly knit sects with deep religious and cultural bonds. Those who leave or simply speak out face retaliation for disloyalty to the religious leaders. They have been ostracized and even received death threats.
I appreciate all the success stories you point out, but they seem a bit anecdotal as this community has seen some of the highest poverty rates in the US. If youth are discouraged from getting educated and to have as many kids as possible, it is a recipe for high rates of public assistance.
The original purpose for public education was to ensure sure all citizens are discerning and informed participants of our electoral process. In New York State, the law tying state funding to at least a modicum of academic instruction is crystal clear.
The Times is exposing what politics watchers have known all along – that politicians at the highest level have been looking the other way as a number of yeshivas commit fraud, taking public money without offering academics. The politicians are all named with specific quid-pro-quos on the record.
This community is free to worship and teach as they like, but is your argument that they should continue to receive public funds? if so, that would not just require a change in the law which would shift enormous sums to ALL religious schools, but would seem to also require a NYS constitutional amendment to strike down our Blaine Amendments which very clearly and very explicitly codify the separation of church and state.
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Jake-
Thanks for adding your comment.
Reading about the demise of the social gospel movement which drove the politics of FDR and U.S. majority opinion/votes, from the decision that the U.S. should fight Hitler to the New Deal legislation, assists in understanding the current rise of the right wing. Btw- Historians credit Italian American Catholics with adding the necessary additional votes to achieve the New Deal legislation.
About the time of the 70’s, evangelicals and conservative Catholics formed an alliance to advance the GOP. The development is explained in a Ryan Girdusky 2014 interview with Pat Buchanan which is posted at the Buchanan site.
Interestingly, during the Scopes trial, Catholic intellectuals supported the teaching of evolution. When the two major U.S. religions were wary of each other’s sects, there was a check and balance. After they bonded to promote conservative religion, the dynamic shifted.
Prominent right-wing Catholics who are very politically active and who media avoid describing as religious, include Matt Schlapp, John Eastman (was President of Robert P. George-founded National Organization for Marriage, NOM’s attorney was Cleta Mitchell, associated with the Koch network) and, Koch’s Paul Weyrich (now deceased). Weyrich’s training manual which called for parallel schools to destroy public schools is posted at Theocracy Watch. Weyrich was a co-founder of ALEC, the Heritage Foundation (paid its employee, Ginny Thomas, $600,0000) and the religious right.
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I e wondered why Ohio is so committed to charters and vouchers. Then I saw a thread on Twitter by Doug Oplinger @doplinger, which said:
“According to Pew Research polls, about 18 percent of Ohioans identify as Catholic. However, the entire Ohio Supreme Court is Catholic, as are the governor, lieutenant governor, secretary of state, treasurer, more than half of the Ohio Senate and 27% of the house.”
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Common schools are for all citizens. We all contribute to them. In addition to various people of different religions, childless property owners and senior citizens, neither of whom use the public schools, pay for them too. We all pay for the police, fire department, public schools, libraries and parks, even if we never use them. They are public services!
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Jake Jacobs (and Heshy) “Sorry to go all standards-based on ya, but the main idea of Judaism is the rejection of all other ideas.”
Thanks for clearing THAT up.
I think that anyone who lives in a democratic political system is fooling themselves if they think they can pursue and embrace such tribal and totalitarian ideas and NOT be a supreme hypocrite, right at the core of your life. Send your note to those people who emigrated from Europe circa WWII and felt what they felt when the ship they were on sailed past the Statue of Liberty.
You and Heshy, whose highest horizon is apparently monetary wealth, should keep quiet and then do some heavy-duty thinking before you speak again. From what you both have said here, you are a paradigmatic picture of the stereotypes we all hate to hear about, or at least most SAY we do. CBK
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Jake Jacobs A CORRECTION: I quoted from LeftCoast. Sorry for the error. CBK
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Diane –
I knew the number of Ohio politicians in Columbus who are White, Catholic, and Republican (mostly men) was large but, your numbers shocked me. Thanks for providing the info.
The data should put a kibosh on the false notion that there is discrimination against Catholics. IMO, it’s the reverse when Catholic schools get the lion’s share of voucher money.
The Koch ALEC has many GOP members in the Ohio legislature. A case can be made that the Koch network and conservative Catholics (in a coordinated effort?) drive policy for the Republican agenda.
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Diane-
A while ago I wrote to Pew about research they conducted that showed political messages from the pulpit were not common in Catholic Churches. My point to Pew was that the Church’s apparatus to influence politically was the state Catholic Conferences. I’m glad to learn that Pew has expanded the scope of what they interpret as religious influence to include the decision makers’ sects, which I infer from the report that Olinger cited.
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CBK– thanks for saying the quiet part out loud
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I’ve been staying away from commenting on this issue because it’s so thorny in today’s America, but I as a Torah following Jew can refrain no longer. Judaism has a main idea and details. Sorry to go all standards-based on ya, but the main idea of Judaism is the rejection of all other ideas. The first three commandments: Don’t follow others. There are 613 laws in the Torah of the Old Testament, and nearly every single one of them has to do with being clean, healthy, and prosperous in a way completely independent of others. When in Rome, we do not do as the Romans do — even when they threaten to destroy the Temple if we don’t.
If the Hasidic Jews of NYC were true believers, they would reject public school funding and find a way to live and learn Torah without relying on assistance from a country, a state, and a city that worship the dollar and Wall Street, that worship Google and Amazon, that worship McDonalds. The kibbutz comes to mind. I am embarrassed by the weakness of Hasidic Jews taking money from goyim to pay for Torah study. Shame on them. Oh, and the Torah is not written with the ambiguity of the Constitution. It’s very clear about what happens to Jews who halfheartedly follow laws and allow greed instead of God to rule their hearts. They are cut off from the children of Jacob and die. Probably of heart disease from eating McDonalds. Put that in your menorah and smoke it, Hasidim. Shame!
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LCT-
Why is the subject “thorny”?
Does pulling our punches about religion embolden those who politically take away our rights and take our money for their sect’s institutions?
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It’s different for Jewish and Black people. We need to be careful about criticizing each other because when white supremacists get fodder to be angry with us, we get mass murdered.
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LCT-
How to fight the clear and present danger of U.S. fascism?
Keeping the advance of right wing religion by the government and increasing funding of Christian religious institutions (primarily Catholic) on the down low since the appointment of Judge Scalia has not led to a lower profile presence by Neo Nazis.
If appeasement and silence appeared to be working, there would be reason to support it.
Relative to Kanye West’s view, IMO, the strongest argument the Jewish community can make to the Black community is that 86% of Jews vote Democratic. The hate directed at both Jews and Blacks is overwhelmingly from the GOP party.
A pundit pointed out that the general public knows who Mitch McConnell is. The pundit’s point was that it contrasted with the anonymity of Chuck Schumer. I agree with the pundit, Schumer has the platform, he should be using it more effectively.
I don’t want to come across as unsympathetic to the history of the vulnerable. The forces against them are strong and, as has been true in all times of history, there are traitors to their cause among them e.g. Clarence Thomas and Jewish NFL owners who condone a system that takes advantage of Black players. I’d like to think that a new persuasive script can be written with convincing dialogue to avoid current developments that advance the right wing.
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I agree, but I am aware of the dangers of criticizing Jews. Tact must be the way, and I must always be self aware enough to admit to myself that I am sometimes too honest to be tactical — unless I take great pains over the course of long periods of time to plan and revise what I write.
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LCT-
Please read my comment at 9:04 in the thread for Diane’s 11-3 post about Big Oil. It relates to this discussion.
Regards, Linda
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If there were a strict wall separating church and state, criticism of public funding of religious schools would not be “thorny.”
In fact, such criticism would not even be necessary because the practice would not exist.
The issue has only become thorny of late because some religious folks want to (as Ronald Reagan said) “tear down that wall”.
Turns out there is a briar patch on the other side.
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Good points- Poet.
Jewish people (2-3% of the population) putting their eggs in the basket of government-ordained religion seems profoundly unwise.
On the other hand, if the over arching cultural/political objective is men over women, I’d say, “have at it.” But, I try not to be profoundly unwise when the subject is cvil rights.
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What a novel idea, have 8 kids(average ) . Accept low wages or being paid off the books. Then collect Federal and State tax dollars to supplement your income.
From Housing assistance that winds up with a Hasidic Landlord in the community , to Food Stamp assistance , to Medicaid ,to income assistance ,to tax dollars going to religious schools with low paid teachers also on assistance; why the hell would you need an education . In NY the “Welfare Queen” may wear a wig.
Jefferson’s letter to Mordecai M. Noah a Jewish Colonial American , laid out the the case for the separation of Church and State as protecting all religion from religion.
But in that letter Jefferson also touches on the importance of Education in putting all peoples on equal footings.
“nothing I think would be so likely to effect this as to your sect particularly as the more careful attention to education, which you recommend, and which placing it’s members on the equal and commanding benches of science, will exhibit them as equal objects of respect and favor.”
And for various historical reasons most American Jewish immigrants understood that well. Their Children excelling in educational achievement.
As James Michener pointed out in “The Source” the Hasidim a sect are an embodiment of centuries of repression not of Judaism . From their dress, the equivalent of black youth wearing sagging pants emulating Prison Garb. To the long curls (Payos) used to identify Jews and be pulled on during the Italian inquisition ,to their wives bald heads done to be unattractive to Cossack rapists. To a large majority voting for Trump and his merry band of Christian White Nationalists and Nazis . This secular Jew finds them abhorrent.
Equally disgusting the politicians that empower them to continue the fraud . To continue the theft of resources from Community Public Schools. To continue the disservice to their own children . A system that would collapse with out tax dollars, leaving these kids totally unprepared for the 21st Century.
Not to mention my (very mild ) case of Covid diagnosed the day I was scheduled to get my third booster in Sept. . Three days after returning on a Virgin Air flight from London with a large group of Hasidic Youth, returning from Israel. God didn’t protect them . The death toll in Boro Park among the highest in the City. Did not convince them to vaccinate .
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Spot on post,Joel.
Hope you are recuperating OK.
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bethree5
Thank You .
I am fine.
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Conservative religion perpetuates gender stereotypes and inequality.
The U.N. conducted a study of gender-related killing of women and girls. The study’s conclusion, in 2019, “Women continue to bear the heaviest burden of lethal violence targeting them as a result of gender stereotypes and inequality…Tangible progress has not been made in recent years.”
As nations like the U.S. which has one of the highest femicide rates among wealthy nations, allow a courting of the religious right for political power, women will continue to pay the price in violence targeted against them and financial opportunity denied them.
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Linda A note about gender stereotypes? Now THAT’s rich. CBK
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The Catholic Church prohibits ALL women from clergy roles citing Jesus’ discrimination as explanation/reason.
Church doctrine is anti-gay and anti-abortion. The Church has worked diligently to achieve its doctrine politically. Its members belong voluntarily.
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Linda I thought this thread was about Jewish schools? For you, and from my past experience in reading your notes, it seems virtually EVERY CONVERSATION finds its way back to “the Catholics”? This is an example of what it means to be siloed, obsessed, and extreme. CBK
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The blog is international in scope. Jewish schools are an issue in New York. It’s good to learn about relevant situations wherever they occur particularly those that have political consequences. My comments introduce another location where right wing religion has adverse impact, the central states. If a commenter thought new readers to the blog would learn from info. in this thread about, for example, Gulan schools, I wouldn’t want them to self-censor.
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Grand multiparity is the descriptive term for a woman who has more than 5 births. It is associated with increased prevalence of maternal and neonatal complications, for example, low Apgar scores. Grand multiparity, in addition to other adverse symptoms, increases incontinence in a woman. Conservative religious men expect others to sacrifice for their objectives wile they lack the empathy that goes with experiencing the sacrifices which are forced on people like women who have 22 or 24 children. The conservative God, if he had a conscience would make the fathers of 22 children, incontinent.
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I can relate to that. I had my first kid at 37, & complained to my ob-gyn in short order about incontinence. She explained it in terms of minor herniation [can fix it with surgery!– no thanks]. Had two more kids at 39 & 41… Believe me, you don’t need to have 22 kids to have this problem! I was told (after 3 childbirths) that this was a very minor issue that barely suggested surgery: live with it!
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I don’t understand just because they are not learning history their kids need to go by the foot. since u are knowing math could u tell me what does one have with the other
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