Moi Naturale is a new blogger. She is Evan Seymour, who worked for KIPP in New Orleans until she learned that had a disability and was unceremoniously abandoned, including losing her health insurance. This is her report on her disenchantment with charter schools.
I will be perfectly frank here. I have seldom criticized KIPP. In part, it is because I like Mike Feinberg, one of the founders. I was very impressed when Mike invited me to speak in Houston a few years ago, knowing that I was a critic of charters. That is the kind of open-mindedness that I admire. And I feel I don’t know enough about how KIPP schools operate, so I have hesitated to make any generalizations.
For those who credit KIPP with having cracked the code of urban education, I have issued what I called the KIPP Challenge: Take over an entire district, no exceptions, no excuses, including the children with disabilities, the ones who don’t speak English, the ones who don’t want to go to school. All of them. I hit a hornet’s nest when I suggested it, and received many vituperative responses.
Evan Seymour knows more about KIPP than I do. She has a personal issue with KIPP, because of the shabby treatment she received, but she has other issues.
She writes:
This is the truth when it comes to charter schools — they aren’t working like society has been led to believe they are. There are a variety of problems with the country’s charter schools, including these:
- a lack of oversight
- exploitation of teachers
- non-compliance with Federal Law as it pertains to students with disabilities
- fiscal irresponsibility
- hiring practices (see: inexperienced teachers, teachers who aren’t interested in remaining in the classroom, teachers who do not at all represent the demographic make-up of the student population they serve)
Evan Seymour was born in Pasadena, California, earned her BA at Spelman College, and studied journalism at the University of Southern California. She currently lives in New Orleans.
Diane Ravitch's blog 
That is the challenge, fix an entire system, not just a select group of students. If the billionaires and reformers aren’t just in it to make more money, prove it. There is Philadelphia, there is detroit, fix the schools and leave no child behind. Show some REAL philanthropy for once, like Carnegie or Waite Phillips, and leave a real legacy of giving.
“That is the challenge, fix an entire system, not just a select group of students.”
It’s more than that, though.
Reform cannot damage or harm existing public schools. I am past thinking our district will benefit from reform. It’s been a decade and the public school kids here have not benefitted.
All I’m asking at this point is that there be SOME thought given to how these reforms might harm existing public schools, which, after all, are the schools that 90% of kids attend.
Increased testing, additional mandates, and a decrease in funding. Those are direct harms, and they’re a result of reform.
Is anyone even bothering to measure if the existing public schools in these “reform areas” are made stronger? Wasn’t that what we were told, that reform would not just create charter schools but ALSO strengthen public schools?
That’s how they got the parents of children who attend traditional public schools on board with reform. So where are the promised benefits to traditional public schools?
““That is the challenge, fix an entire system, not just a select group of students.”
NO! That isn’t the challenge, “fix an entire system.” The vast majority of the “system” works.
YES! the challenge is to fix a “select group”.
AMEN! Put up or shut up!
This is truly shocking. It’s the
part of the story that needs to
be focused on. KIPP likes to
hire mostly, or ONLY early-to-
mid-20’s teachers because
statistically speaking, they are
healthier, and thus, less costly
for insurance companies to
insure. The payouts on claims
are minimal or non-existent.
However, what if one of these
young corporate charter
school teachers at KIPP—-or
a KIPP employee who has aged
out of the early-to-mid-20’s
demographic—is unexpectedly
faced with a catastrophic, and
expensive-to-treat illness?
What if there’s no stong union
contract that contains safeguards
against dumping teachers who—
through no fault of their own—
get seriously sick?
Well, NOW we have an answer
to that question.
THIS BELOW is what happens:
———————————————–
Moi Naturale:
“In April of this year, I had a seizure
episode, as those of you who have
been reading Moi Naturale regularly
already know. After the seizure
episode, I went to a neurologist who
ordered an MRI, and I then discovered
there was abnormal scarring for
someone of my age on my brain.
“So not only was I still recovering
of the effects of my seizure, but I
had to come face to face with the
fact that I there was something
abnormal about my brain.
“Great…
“I reached out to KIPP New Orleans
Schools, and at first, they were
incredibly supportive.
“But that was just in the beginning.
“During the summer, I reached out
repeatedly to my school leader,
requesting a meeting with him so
I could discuss my future with the
school.
“Time and again, I received his full
voicemail box. Eventually, he got
back to me via text message,
making excuses about how busy
he’d been, but promising to
schedule a time for us to sit down
and meet.
“That meeting never happened.
“On July 1, I received a text
message from one of the higher-
ups at KIPP informing me that
based upon a text message I’d
sent to my boss, after almost a
month of trying to get in touch with
him, that they were going to start
moving forward with ‘closeout
procedures’ on my employment
with them. In his message, Mr. K
said that they wanted me to return
my KIPP cell phone and KIPP-
issued computer before the 4th
of July.
“My head was spinning. I
couldn’t believe that the principal
of the school would take such
steps \without reaching back out
to me, especially since I was out
on disability.
“I reached out to Mr. K, and
explained to him my concern
with how the situation had been
handled (including an
announcement made to the
entire staff about the fact that I
would not be returning).
“He told me to reach out to the
director of human relations for
KIPP New Orleans Schools,
someone who I had already
called and emailed several
times, to no avail.
“Later, I was told she had been
on vacation. Must be nice to
be able to go on vacation and
not respond to emails or voice
message for weeks at a time.
“I have never worked a job that
afforded me such a luxury.
“Well, soon after that came the
news that my health insurance
had been cancelled. Let me
remind you, readers, that I still
was out with an open disability
claim, filed through MetLife.
“So, now I find myself with no
health insurance and a newly-
diagnosed auto-immune disease.
“This is what happens when
unions are demonized and folks
are left to fend for themselves
against major corporate entities
like KIPP.”
“After reaching out to an attorney,
I sent an email to the COO of
KIPP New Orleans Schools, my
principal, the director of human
relations at KIPP, and Mike
Feinberg and Dave Levin, the
founders of the schools that
preach the motto:
” ‘Work Hard. Be Nice.’
“Not surprisingly, I never heard
back from any of them.”
The following book has been mentioned before on this blog re New Orleans & KIPP:
Sarah Carr, HOPE AGAINST HOPE: Three Schools, One City, and the Struggle to Educate America’s Children (2013, hardcover).
The author tries very hard to be “objective” but much of what she writes is an indictment of the fundamental tenets of leading charterite/privatizer efforts.
While I urge people to read the book and place the following in context, I follow with two paragraphs:
The children were more reluctant KIPP converts. Many of them enjoyed the trips (those who violated KIPP’s rules too many times were barred from the excursions, however), spoke enthusiastically about at least one or two of their teachers, and experienced some degree of academic growth after starting at KIPP. But they chafed under KIPP’s rules and long hours, and all but a few had some story of an unfair benching or other punishment.
“Mr. Dassler says we won’t have bench at his high school, which is a good thing,” said fifteen-year-old Moira, just days before starting at KIPP Renaissance. “The kids call KIPP Kids in Prison Program because we don’t get out of school until late,” she added. “I joked to one friend ‘Next year I’m going to be there at KIPP Renaissance with a lot of convicts.’” [end of quotation]
KIPP. Knowledge Is Power Program. Kids in Prison Program.
Make up your own minds.
I spent time working at a public school which was co-located with a KIPP school.
The children at both schools came from the same neighborhood and had roughly similar demographics–almost all Black, almost all poor. But the schools actually had vastly different students.
The KIPP parents had to sign a contract promising to volunteer a significant amount of time at KIPP. This means that KIPP was siphoning off children whose parents had the means and motivation to get involved with their kids’ education.
The public school had the “leftovers” (I hate to call them that, but that is how they were treated): kids who lived with a grandmother or an uncle, kids living in foster care group homes, English language learners, homeless kids, and kids with academic or disciplinary problems. Then the scores from the two schools were compared, and the public school was declared a failure. The whole situation was sickening.
I could not agree more that KIPP must prove that they can teach ALL students before they can be declared a success.
Do you think the students in the KIPP program had a better learning environment? Did the KIPP students learn more faster?
Probably depends on what you mean by “learned”. Yes, they probably stuffed more in their heads long enough to regurgitate it for the test. But there is a limit to what can be truly learned, as in available for long-term retention and application to other situations, in what amount of time. Rest and play are very important components of the brain’s ability to learn for retention.
Dienne,
I agree.
Also, wasn’t there an article on this blog recently about schooling in one of the Latin American countries (I think Chile or perhaps Brazil?) The point was they have had decades of “market based school reform” and tons of drill and kill type schools. According to that article, which was a first hand account, as I remember, the kids who are now adults now ,know nothing but cramming for tests. In colleges they are doing poorly in classes and seem to see no reason to understand anything, just pass the test.
“The KIPP parents had to sign a contract promising to volunteer a significant amount of time at KIPP. This means that KIPP was siphoning off children whose parents had the means and motivation to get involved with their kids’ education.”
Agree.
This is also the story for any charter school I have ever heard of in my area of the world
In my experience, these places siphon off kids who were doing very well in the traditional public school anyway.
Do you think they will do better if they are all in a school of good students? Dr. Ravitch has discussed peer effects and charter schools in the past.
Define do better.
I will go with the same definition you used in your comment that about students that ” ….were doing very well in the traditional public school anyway.” Are the students now doing very very well instead if just very well?
There are many ways that a student can “do well”. Students do better in the long run – including social and emotional factors – when they are with all kinds of students. Life is diverse. Kids need to learn to deal with all kinds of people, not just those who are academically advanced.
I think this is an interesting point, but I wonder how far you would be willing to go. Would you close academically challenging limited admission magnet high schools? Would you require more mixing of academic abilities within a given school?
Then my answer is no.
Dienne, agree.
When you look at the larger picture of layoffs and abuse of employees throughout our economy, it is interesting to note that people who were making middle class wages have been laid off and can find only lower paying jobs. Corporations seem to think that paying a living wage with benefits is a drag on their bottom line.
Frequently, when companies are bought out and are down-sized, local employees lose their jobs, are replaced by non-locals and within a few years, the company is sold or shuts down. With excessive profits being the primary goal of investors, the people who lose those jobs are collateral damage, not humans with families, homes, and debts. They lose all their livelihood so that strangers all around the world don’t forfeit gaining that extra dime.
This corporate style has invaded the public sector jobs where public servants are expected to take on more and more responsibilities for less and less pay, just like in the private sector. There is a difference, though. When dealing with children, not objects, when trying to make an impact on individuals no upon objects, teachers and students need more individualized time to concentrate on succeeding. With the business model, there is a belief in efficiency, not of excellence, but of profits made. In the end, when the going gets rough, the private owners will take their money and run. Their marketing tactics are to make promises they can’t keep or sustain, but they aren’t concerned with children or teachers or learning. They are concerned with a profit and will stick with it as long as their marketing works.
I wonder where ethics and conscience come into play. I am not speaking of the teachers here but of the private owners who are getting more wealthy by pulling the wool over parents’ eyes.
Sure, public education and teachers have room for improvements, as do workers in every job. This isn’t the way to do it though.
Corporations also have a policy of planned obsolescence for their products, so they can sell us the next new iteration. (iphone anyone?) Our children should not be educated for obsolescence. Education is not about churning out cheap labor that gets replaced after a few years.
I believe they wish to churn out teachers for less expensive new ones. The teachers become obsolete. Actually, I have to say that experienced teachers have been made to feel obsolete as soon as they reach a point where their salaries have been appropriate for all the work they do, and the extra work that is all about compliance with new testing demands.
I am sorry, but I don’t appreciate the manner in which forced jargon has replaced intelligence and experience. If teachers don’t know the current buzzwords then they are considered behind and on the way out.
Yes, this has always occurred. But technology changes so rapidly that it has overtaken classroom expertise.
TE. I am NOT making any such argument against specialized schools. Not at all. But, I am tired of trying to communicate when it is pointless.
Deb,
I am quoting from your posts. If you do not mean to be arguing what you are posting, perhaps a period of reflection before posting would be useful.
Is TJ High School inclusive of all?
TE you are misinterpreting. Perhaps I will just avoid you. Good night.
Deb,
Perhaps you could help me understand your position. I understand your statement that “”public” is inclusive of ALL, not cherry-picked for any purpose” to mean that admission tests like those used at TJ High School are inconsistent with what we public schools. That is certainly a defendable position, but is it yours?
Since these schools are publically financed what gives charter schools the right to cherry pick students and parents, not follow state ed code and local regulations, not deal with behavioral problems, ESL and special education especially the moderate to severe students and have no real oversight at all, read the latest DOE OIG report on the total lack of accountability at all levels in Florida, Arizona and California. They really have nerve to try to compare the two without the “Correction Factor” as they are so dissimilar. What an intellectual joke they are trying to perform. The charter school students have no right to have a special place different from regular public schools. How do you prove you are better when you have none of the difficulties of the regular public school since charters sent back or send to the street any student who has a problem of any kind. And this is straight up comparison? Who are you trying to kid especially when your people say they are not public schools. If not, why do they take public money. My parents sent 11 to private schools to get a better education. That is how it should be. Private schools, which charters really are, should be privately funded completely and they do what you want. Just like where I went, Crespi in Encino, my parent paid and I got an education way above a public school education while they paid the taxes for all else. What is their cheating problem now?
Isn’t the very term “public” inclusive of ALL, not cherry-picked for any purpose? Public schools are entrusted with educating all students, whatever their issues, whatever their background, whatever their socio-economic stance. There can be no direct comparison when the student bodies are so different.
We have spent decades, though, dealing with parents who don’t want their children “labeled” even though they know that their children have special needs. They want their child to be treated exactly the same within a classroom when the child needs to have one on one attention, yet they complain that other kids are aware that their child has the issues. Somewhere along the line, we need to simply educate children, where they are, physically, academically, socially, and emotionally. If it takes one on one or groups of 12, then why not do what the child needs? I know. It is too simplistic. It is too expensive.
Hmmm, but privatizing education doesn’t cost us more in the end? And that money doesn’t go to the owners, not to the kids’ education?
I am tired of corporate anything.
Qualified enrollment magnet schools like T J High in northern Virginia only take very strong students. Is that school a public school?
Magnet schools care public. I am against private schools taking public money and selecting students as they please.
If public means that schools accept all students in a geographic area “whatever their issues”, TJ High does not qualify as a public school. T J only admits very high performing students and defiantly takes taxpayer funds.
I don’t live there, don’t know about that school, don’t know its specific demographics, and furthermore, I am not privy to every anecdotal school situation in Ohio, let alone in other states.
Of course, you can find whatever anecdotal evidence to prove or disprove every comment made by anyone. So what? The point is not what happens in isolation but what makes the most sense given the variety of communities in the US.
You ask us questions that have nothing to do with anything that applies to our personal experiences. Even if we say that we don’t know the answers, you continue to make many if us feel sucker punched. Do you wish for us to bow to your superior knowledge?
If you know something important, then state your sources and post some links instead of asking obtuse questions for other people to “answer”.
If you have some “evidence” of your assertions, then pony up.
Deb,
Are you asking for evidence that Thomas Jefferson High School has strict admission standards? It is just a click away: http://www.fcps.edu/pla/TJHSST_Admissions/index.html
You might be interested in the student handbook for the freshman admissions exam for Thomas Jefferson High School. It is here:http://www.fcps.edu/pla/TJHSST_Admissions/forms/Fairfax_Stdnt_Hndbk_2011.pdf
My point is that you are not making an argument against charter schools, you are making an argument against any specialized education program in the public school system.
Without getting into the merits of magnet and specialized schools, they are unquestionably public because they openly publicize and make no bones about their selective enrollment criteria,
KIPP and other charters are duplicitous because, while claiming to serve “the same kids,” they stealthily cherry pick on the front and back end.
Correct. I know that.
@Michael Fiorillo,
Surely there must be more to the distinction between acceptable schools like Thomas Jefferson High School and unacceptable schools like the Community Roots Charter School than simply publicizing explicit or implicit admissions policies?
teachingeconomist
If KIPP described themselves as a selective magnate school, that would be one thing. But, they seem to imply that they have a solved the problem of educating the most unmotivated students and drop outs. Other than that, I agree with your point that specialized schools should be judged on an even basis.
Surly you would not put KIPP into the same category as TJ high school in terms of selectivity?
I am serious… and don’t call me Shirley.
If a community identifies a need for a magnet school program and decides to fund it as a public school, that school is subject to all the rules and regulations established by the public school system. We have already established that charters operate under their own set of rules and frequently are not subject to the same standards (especially when it comes to financial transparency). As public schools, we are tasked with trying to meet the needs of each student where they are. The much harder discussions come when we discuss what meeting the needs of each student means without morphing into a discussion of education as a consumer commodity. The services we provide are not only for the benefit of the individual student but for society as a whole as well.
True.
What if a community identifies a need for a charter school? One that requires the same admission standards as TJ high school,a public magnet school. Could the charter school use the same admission test as TJ High school? Can they deny admission to all but the most capable students?
Honestly! No one is saying it can’t or shouldn’t be done in public schools. Public. Public. If their methods and pedagogy are wonderful then spread the ideas to all. Don’t focus on competition! I am sick of constant competition. It is unhealthy when it us an obsession. Kids should never grow up feeling like losers! But they do! And now entire schools and systems and teachers are labeled as losers and getting replaced with PRIVATE schools that have no long term desire for anything but profits. They can well afford to the take the money and run leaving disasters in their wake and never being accountable to anyone.
Sorry. My job was to teach all my students to the best of their abilities. I detest competing against other classrooms. I went into other classes and helped those teachers all the time. But we had one male teacher who was all about making his kids succeed without caring or sharing with anyone else’s students.
I found him to be problematic.
So I think we have come back to the definition of “public”. Does it mean that there is a place for a student in a school or does it mean that every school must be every thing to all students? Does it mean that every class in a school be appropriate to every student or the school offer classes that are appropriate to the students in the school?
If an entire community chooses to establish a charter school subject to all the oversight of the public school system, I see no objection. Then again, I don’t see a need for a charter school when a public school can do the same thing. The state and federal government could allow leeway in their governance just as they do for charters. As charters were first considered as incubators for ideas to be tried in public schools, so too we can have incubator programs within the public schools. Given the current idiocy being imposed from above, it is better to run pilot programs within the public schools and under the governance of the public schools. If we create a dual system, one subject to state and federal law and the other given considerable freedom from federal, state, and local oversight, we have no way to compare the programs. There are too many uncontrolled variables and too much opportunity to subvert the purposes of education for private gain.
Charter schools can do some things traditional zoned schools cannot. Specialized forms of education like Montessori or Waldorf schools come to mind. I don’t think government regulation is the reason why public schools have fundamentally the same approach to education, so I don’t think that relaxing those regulations will have a large impact on public schools. Far more important is requiring students to attend schools based on geography rather than the approach to education in each school.
“Give me, get me, buy me, take me” was a phrase we used to use with our children when they began to demonstrate a tad too much consumeritis. I’m sorry that your public schools were so awful that you can see no other alternative than a food court of educational choices. I’m sorry that your public schools were so rigid that they never piloted new ideas or instituted novel programming ideas. I’m sorry that you felt your public schools owed you and your family something they did not deliver.
I think I was around forty when I told my mother rather tongue in cheek that I figured I was old enough at that point to take responsibility for my own life and that she was “off the hook.” I think there is a little too much tendency to demand “more” and blame the system rather than figure out how to do more with what we have. Am I making any sense?
This is not especially about my district. There are over 67,000 public elementary schools in the US. Do any traditional zoned public schools provide a Montessori or Waldorf or progressive education? Should diverse approaches to education only be available to the relatively wealthy?
Progressive education, yes, although the corporate reform movement is doing a good job of killing it. I do not know about Montessori or Waldorf. I have no problem with the educational choices that the wealthy make for their children. We could probably do better if we shifted more of our resources to meet society’s needs in a more proactive way.
NO, I was not asking if TJHS has strict admissions. Why would I ask you that? That has nothing to do with what I was talking about. I was merely asking you why you ask these questions if you are already in possession of your own answers. It appears that you are trying to get people to consider tangential topics by posing questions to them. Good grief.
Perhaps I was confused. It seemed to me to me that you argued that public schools never cherry pick for any purpose. Thomas Jefferson does more cherry picking than any charter school, yet you seem to give TJ a free pass. Joe Nathan would not be do generous.
My question is about your position. Why do you think that a school that requires a cut score on a standardized exam is a public school while a school that basis admission in a lottery is a private school which accepts public funds. I think you need to answer this question if you want to make a pursuasive argument.
IGNORE TE, folks. You are just wasting your time. He has posited this argument many, many times before and flatly refuses to listen to facts about public magnet schools that are able to offer different programs, including Montessori, when those schools have been given the autonomy to be run by local school councils.
Elder,
Perhaps I have not made my position clear. I present arguments in favor of allowing parents to choose a school so I am very much in favor of magnet programs. I am critical of arguments against allowing students to choose schools, including those that are critical of magnet schools.
When poster deb is critical of schools that admit students based on anything other than geographic location of their residence, she is taking a position in opposition to magnet schools. When some maintain that the act of applying to a school results in a selection bias that harms the students whose families do not apply, that argument applies to magnet schools with the same force as charter or private schools. When others argue that all students from a neighborhood must attend the same school in order to maintain neighborhood cohesion, they are arguing that magnet school programs destroy neighborhoods and should presumably be shut down.
Encino: have you even BEEN to Pacoima? How would this crazy fantasy of yours about charters work here? If we sent every kid with a “problem” back to the street, we wouldn’t have any students left!
We take whoever shows up, just like any other public school. Got lice? We’ll wash it out! Hungry? Everybody gets free breakfast and lunch. Having an autistic fit? We’ll dodge the rocks you throw at us and when you’re finally calmed down, we’ll take you to your math class.
We take the students that live in our community. As a conversion charter school, we serve the same area and the same population that we served as a traditional LAUSD school, only this time, we are able to serve our students better and use tax dollars more effectively. The parents in our community are not people who would be able to pay private school tuition. For our pre-K program we surveyed the parents two years ago, and found out that half of the parents were unemployed. The recession hit this area very hard.
Since it is St.Francis’ feast day and you are obviously a fellow Catholic, let me share with you our unofficial school motto: “Start by doing what’s necessary, then do what is possible, and suddenly you are doing the impossible.”
That’s pretty much how most teachers, staff and principals everywhere in the Northeast Valley in any school, go about their day, every day. There are no simple blanket solutions for this area and each school, including my school, has had to make decisions about how they can get their students’ needs met (educational, social, physical). We have to all do our best in the real world, which in Los Angeles is a political minefield, that’s for sure!
Karen, it sounds as if you are doing the right things but how do you avoid being labeled a “failing school” based on test scores (which I don’t agree with)?
Well, at this point, just about every school in California is on “program improvement” status based on not being 100% proficient on the state tests, so we’re in good company!
In Indiana our “beloved” Supt of Public Instruction tried to tweak the way charters were judged. He was ousted and then had to resign when he took a job in Florida for his shenanigans. While he was here it was pointed out repeatedly that charters did no better than public schools when comparing apples to apples. That made no difference. He pushed ahead his agenda anyway.
From the research Dr. Ravitch and others have presented it seems that this is pervasive, overall charters fare no better overall. They are, when dealt with properly, presented with the same societal problems as the public schools.
My view: schools have become the whipping boys for political and corporate failures. Repeating myself: when I first started teaching over a half century ago when Sputnik was launched the schools were to blame. We absolutely must emulate the great Russian schools. When we put a man on the moon, did schools get any credit? Likewise, when Deming went to Detroit and tried to persuade them to put out a better profit he was sent packing. He went to Japan which listened, put out a superior product. Detroit faltered, would have went bankrupt if not bailed out but is was the schools which were the cause of our economic problems brought on by the automotive debacle. We again must absolutely emulate the great Japanese schools in order for our economy to prosper. Now, for how long has the Japanese economy stagnated? Do you now hear that we must emulate those great Japanese schools.
Ad nauseum.
Ahhhh, isn’t this a heart-warming story. Fineberg and Levin are so big-hearted. They care so much about employees,”Be nice”. I guess the writer didn’t have enough GRIT. Charters are shams and the founders are in it for the money.
At my PUBLIC charter school in California we are visited/audited by both the district AND the state. Teachers work together to collaborate and peer review with our PAR system. There is due process at my school. I have students with 504s and IEPs, ELLs, newcomers… and over 700 of the students at my school are homeless (most students under this category live in garages). We have a school psychologist and three school counselors. We have a case manager who helps our families get assistance, such as family counseling, food, clothing, dental and medical care via our partnerships with local social services.
We do look to hire new teachers who are recommended to us by our partner school, Cal State Northridge, but most of our teachers have more than 10 years experience.
There are great LAUSD “traditional” public schools, and there are some horrific ones, just as there are fabulous charters like mine and some really bad charters. The difference is, a bad charter school implodes or gets closed down pretty quickly.
I don’t know ANYONE who believes that public schools in New Orleans before Katrina worked for students. I would compare graduation rates from before and now. Someone is doing something right.
I think the issue I have with Dr. Ravitch is that she demonizes charters nationwide and doesn’t consider the political and social realities of working in a district like LAUSD or in New Orleans. So anyone who isn’t with the “traditional” school is the bad guy. Her friend Matt Damon is a great advocate for public schools (and the son of a great early childhood educator) but when he came to Los Angeles, even HE chose to put his children in private schools. This doens’t make him a bad person but it illustrates how hard it is to be willing to experiment with your own kids when you don’t feel a district or school is working, even though everyone is doing there utmost to improve graduation rates (which can be 90% at some schools but only 60% at others in LAUSD).
When you go to meetings to “collaborate” with the traditional district people, you do find amazing, dedicated people, but when you get kicked in the stomach enough, it makes you wary about being friendly or “collaborating”. But hey, I’ll keep trying!
Just because children are graduating does not mean the schools are doing something better. In the charter I’ve worked in the teachers are basically forced to pass students that really shouldn’t have passed. Also, the credit recovery involved is a sham.
We have some students who are doing credit recovery and that IS a concern. Some choose to get it through summer school, others go through other programs in the area which basically just require them to complete a lot of worksheets.
There are some students who really struggle to meet graduation requirements, either due to learning difficulties/new to English/other issues. They might need learning/vocational goals that are more realistic and achievable for them so they can eventually get what would be the equivalent of the GED. We are working with some special education students to assure that they are able to be successful with these goals and to start communication with our local community colleges to offer these students support as they transfer over.
One thing that would help both traditional and charter schools would be to track the students AFTER high school to see which students are continuing college after freshman year; which students graduate from college in four years; in six years; and/or which students are employed full time. My school is working to track this using student representatives who help us keep in touch with their cohort after high school graduation.
If Matt Damon wishes to spend his money to put his kids in private schools for any reason, it is his business and his money. That isn’t the issue.
Also PUBLIC charter schools aren’t the issue.
PRIVATE charter schools taking public money to make a few people wealthy IS the problem. Evaluating the public schools negatively in order to take them over is wrong.
If these wealthy philanthropists want to help PUBLIC schools succeed without making a PROFIT on their billions, then let them help the PUBLIC schools instead of spending money on bogus tests by bogus companies that just take money from the community and give it to their investors.
Reality check: destination, New Orleans.
Link: http://deutsch29.wordpress.com
Link: http://crazycrawfish.wordpress.com
Link: http://louisianaeducator.blogspot.com
Link: http://louisianavoice.com
Remember, there are many areas where charter schools are not permitted to be for-profits and we see a different kind of profiteering at those schools, where executives earn six figure salaries that are up to twice the income of superintendents of large urban school districts, while teachers work long hours for low pay. They also often give jobs and no-bid contracts to family and friends. Non-profits, as they currently exist, are no panacea and should be regulated.
Thanks for each for sharing their diverse experiences. Makes for a more comprehensive and complete, though complex view of what’s happening.
Sorry Diane.
I am making one last post here. I do NOT wish to “argue” with you, TE, to defend my comments to suit his interpretations. I am tired of being belittled and wasting space on Diane’s blog in order to “explain” what I have posted to your satisfaction. It is a pointless endeavor because you want the last word.
Get this, TE. I am for PUBLIC educational opportunity as it can be afforded by the geographic area in which someone lives with occasional cyber-classes when necessary. If enough people wish to demand Montessori or Waldorph style classes within the public framework then go for it. If ONE (or few) parent(s) makes a “demand” to have their child in a program that isn’t feasible (financially) under the public schools programs, then he/they need to foot the bill to get “their way”.
I don’t know what your intent is, but it seems to be irritatingly directed at some personal beef you have. So be it. Get over it. You pose pseudo questions to cleverly parse out what you want to believe.
I don’t know if it is possible to include in public schools what you seem to desire. I don’t know if Waldorf and Montessori schools have trademarked their methods making them inaccessible to public schools. I don’t know what laws are in place in every state nor do I pretend to. If you wish to learn this, research it yourself. To me, methods are available and good teachers select the methods suited to their capabilities, modify them, and move forward, constantly adjusting, not being rigidly focused on someone else’s magic.
We all don’t get our way. That is life. I didn’t. My kids didn’t. Big deal. Learning how to adjust to a classroom full of heterogeneous learners is more beneficial to society because the adults we become are heterogeneous.
If your learning style is to pose endless questions, I suggest you use Google to find your answers.
I post my thoughts on public education, whatever the form, as long as private schools aren’t supported by tax dollars. When the money goes into the pockets of private for profit owners, students are being used in an inhumane manner.
If you don’t like me your public schools then move to an area that suits your demands.
Minneapolis and St. Paul both offer elementary Montessori public schools. Cincy has elementary, middle and high school Montessori public schools. Minnesota also allow students to cross district lines so long as the receiving district has room.
Simply put, if it were possible to meet all demands perfectly, public schools would try. Dealing with those demands from tunnel-visioned parents that wish for a perfect solution for their children despite its cost to the public, its damage to other children, and the lack of employees from every school of thought existing in every community, no matter how small or poor lacks the substance needed to perpetuate a caring society. We don’t always get what we think we want. And many who get what they want aren’t satisfied then, if ever.
I am all for private dollars being donated to public schools …with the investment being in a better society for as manyvas possible, not for dollars in the bank in the Cayman Islands.
Those seem like excellent policies that would work well in large urban districts. It gives teachers the freedom to teach in creative and innovative ways and the parents the freedom to find those teachers who can best serve their children.
There is certainly nothing personal here. It just seems to me that two of the important goals of many who post on this blog, first that teachers in individual school buildings have the freedom to pursue different and innovative approaches to teaching and second, that the students going to these innovative and differentiated schools have no choice about which school to attend (unless, of course, the students families are sufficiently wealthy). These two goals are incompatible with each other.
It seems to me that it would be impossible to convert a school in the traditional “all and only” zoned school system into the more differentiated approach to teaching offered by a Montessori school, a Waldorf school, or any other approach to education that is out of the mainstream. Not every family in a catchment area will want to convert, not every family outside of the catchment area will remain satisfied with their neighborhood school once the conversion takes place. The current structure of public education, more importantly the top down nature of it, is the product of our practice of assigning students to schools. If parents have no choice about which school to attend, they will demand a strong regulatory framework and the end result is a set of relatively homogeneous schools.
Deb, you don’t have to quit posting because of TE. He likes to ask provocative questions. If you don’t like them, ignore them. This is a marketplace of free ideas where I have the last word because it is my blog. Just don’t let yourself get rattled. He is trying to rattle you or someone, anyone. Pass on by.
I second Dr. Ravitch’s thought that you should keep posting. I was told to shut up and listen to my betters with my firsts posts commenting on this blog. I took it to be a challenge and have posted ever since. I hope you will continue posting as well.
TE, nothing ever stops you!
!!!!!
Diane, I apologize. I am not rattled per se. I am just tired. I repond to a question and get more questions. There are a few who post and just hammer away at the same old type of tangential lines of questioning. It has gotten old and worn my patience thin.
I am really not interested in confrontational conversation, but have tried to give an answer that is suitable only to be told I need to answer further. These are things he can answer himself using Google. I am not interested in trying to prove an opinion. All I have to go on is my experiences. Not his or anyone else’s.
I left the blog once before because of another man’s posts. I don’t appreciate being told “perhaps I should” do anything by him or any other anonymous poster. I will continue to read but I really am tired of this absurd public display that I get stuck in.
He can have the last word.
Deb, ignore him. It is not worth it. That is his style. He will never change. He likes to annoy people.