Brown University: Hundreds of Thousands of Lives Could Have Been Saved…

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1. d says:

   May 21, 2022 at 12:10 pm

   I would say, ‘Hundreds and hundreds of thousands of lives’.

   Now, when I was a kid, this guy (Jonas Salk) made a vaccine and released it to the world. In most arenas (schools, etc.) the vaccine was required. In those days, important research was funded by our government, since it was considered a ‘public good’.

   Now, it’s all about the few owners taking away from the many. Different country.

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   • Lloyd Lofthouse says:

     May 21, 2022 at 2:07 pm

     When we look at the known recorded history of vaccines, only the dangerous MAGA zombies on the extreme right that still worship their false prophet, the Emperor of Lies and Cheating Traitor Trump, would refuse to accept the evidence that for more than a thousand years, billions of lives have been saved.

     “Early references to inoculation can be traced back as far as the Chinese Liao Dynasty around the 10th century where the son of a statesman was said to have been inoculated against smallpox by having a powder made from smallpox scabs blown up his nose. Inoculation was also achieved by scratching smallpox into the skin.”

     https://www.vaccinestoday.eu/stories/history-of-vaccines-part-1/

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     • Daedalus says:

       May 21, 2022 at 2:38 pm

       Right (and thanks) Lloyd. It’s been ‘science’ (inductive logic) for a long time.

       Have you read, “The closing of the Western Mind” ? I think it pretty much points to the heart of the problem.

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     • Lloyd Lofthouse says:

       May 21, 2022 at 11:45 pm

       The closing of the western mind is a mental virus known as willing ignorance. It doesn’t afflict every American but those that are infected refuse to be healed and start threatening others and even killing people they fear might try and educated them of their false prophets lies.

       This mental virus isn’t exclusive to the US. This mental plague has struck before throughout the ages, causing empires to fall.

       It happened to the Roman Empire, too, and we could list a lot more. It’s also happening in Russia at this time. That one is called the Putin Mental Virus. Iran and North Korea also have their own mental pandemics spreading and causing destruction.

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   • FLERP! says:

     May 21, 2022 at 9:36 pm

     Bear in mind that these vaccines were developed and brought to market in about a year—much, much faster than the polio vaccine development and rollout (which had some serious bumps and took many years to gain public acceptance). And the vaccine has been available it Americans for no charge, and we have vaccinated a far larger percentage of Americans than got the polio vaccine in its early rollout. We tend to bitch about everything, but the vaccine development and rollout has been amazing to my eyes.

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2. Wait, What? says:

   May 21, 2022 at 12:21 pm

   When does the House form a committee to investigate the effects of elected officials’ lies, faulty information, attacks on scientists, and denial of data?

   As more of these studies are released and reported just possible some of the local, state, and national officials (aka former president, GOP senators and representatives, Attorneys General…) who vocally denied and attacked or silent about those who denied will be seen as COMPLICIT in the deaths. (Of course, millions think the election was fraudulent)

   And, as more are reported as an almost undeniable reality – – Will there be “reports,” “white papers,” editorials and purchased space for commentary (AFT), and others?

   Right under the 2020 White House should be the STATE AGs who SUED SCHOOL DISTRICTS for imposing mask and vaccine requirements

   10 years from now this will be undeniable in the Guilty Old Party and on the conscience of some of them who knew and know better.

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   • Daedalus says:

     May 21, 2022 at 6:58 pm

     Yep.

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3. Susan L Osberg says:

   May 21, 2022 at 1:14 pm

   Between this post and the previous one of Diane’s, I had a thought (and I’m sure I am not alone with this thought)…it seems that today’s Republican Party (clearly, not the one from when I was growing up) feel that it is not OK for women to have choices for their bodies, it is not OK for people to have choices about their families, it is not OK to read books of your choice, but it is OK to to spread lies about elections, it is OK to threaten public officials who certify elections, it is OK to have vigilante enforcement of their absurd laws, it is OK to choose not to get a COVID vaccination, it is OK to disbelieve the science about COVID, it is OK to spread COVID throughout the country and the world, it is OK to have 1 million people die of this disease, and so on. Such a bunch of hypocrites!

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   • Susan L Osberg says:

     May 21, 2022 at 1:15 pm

     cx: only one “to”

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   • Wait, What? says:

     May 21, 2022 at 2:17 pm

     A loud mouthed, self-indulged, pathological lying, inherited racist (“good on both sides”),ignorant playboy (“they let you do it”) got on stage with a bunch of used-to-be intelligent and mostly bona-fide conservatives and the audiences and news shows loved him.

     It was like going to the alternative circus with the bizarre contortionists and snake-oil salesman or those phony wrestling matches – the crowds loved him

     He tripped over one fact:
     A whole of people think they are victims, have no voice, and need someone to blame.
     These are billionaires, white males who thinks government is intrusive (from McVeigh to the guy who thinks the dog-catcher is overpaid), behind-doors-racists, people who don’t want to wear helmets, people who think medicare and food stamps are unfair…) –

     This guy howls at the moon, blames and blames more, and says things they wish they could say to their boss. This guy blames liberals, tree-huggers, scientists, and anyone who is actually smarter than he is (that’s a large group). They love it.

     And, he understands one thing: The power of mass communication. The world is his game show and a hooting and hollering audience.

     All he needed to do was say “Hillary” and the dollars and votes rolled in. “The Wall” “Liberals” “Hunter’s laptop” Slurs. Degrading comments. Mocking people who are disabled. Any international partnership with an acronym – and they went crazy with support.

     And that Guilty Old Party you refer too fell in line because it worked. They sold their souls to the devil because the devil raises millions and can claim lies and blame anything that doesn’t go his way.

     ONE MILLION PEOPLE DIED.
     Any other President – of any party – would not have let that happen.
     And if it was a Democrat in the White House, the Guilty Old Party would be screaming for science, facts, data, proof, and yes, even some compassion.
     You said it – hypocrites
     Period.

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     • jwund@frontiernet.net says:

       May 21, 2022 at 2:26 pm

       You know, I understand your rage.  However, simply using ‘name calling’ pretty much devolves into ‘name calling’ hatred of the other side.  This does not build a coherent community.

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     • Bob Shepherd says:

       May 21, 2022 at 5:18 pm

       Yup. Musk gets caught doing a payoff to curtail a sexual harassment lawsuit, and suddenly he is a Republican.

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     • Wait, What? says:

       May 21, 2022 at 7:05 pm

       @ jwund@frontiernet.net
       I understand your comment about understanding my rage – – – but where is the outrage? Seriously – what will it take? A deadly attack on our Capitol did not wake up anyone.

       I do not understand the psychology of 50,000.000 voters giving this person a “pass” on countless dangerous and on the brink of disaster decisions and no decisions and comments.

       And, the media doesn’t even bother covering the silence of our elected officials whose job it is to “check and balance” this. He and his crowd are the root cause of hundreds of thousands of deaths, hundreds of thousands living in poverty with less support than ever before, and a nation torn apart when evidence of lies and misinformation are ignored.

       We went to war against the wrong country when tragically and heinously 3,000 people were attacked with the country on 9/11. 1 MILLION died of covid of which at least a couple hundred thousand were preventable.

       Suppose ANY president was handed iron clad proof that a foreign or terrorist enemy was going to attack and kill hundreds of thousands. I can’t imagine one of them, not even the previous administration ignoring that and getting away with it. But they did

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     • Daedalus says:

       May 21, 2022 at 7:17 pm

       Well, I think I might agree. Totally. And, that’s odd for a teacher.

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     • SomeDAM Poet says:

       May 22, 2022 at 1:38 pm

       Bob

       What do you call an allegation that Musk exposed his erect penis on a SpaceX jet?

       An X rated Elon-gation

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     • SomeDAM Poet says:

       May 22, 2022 at 1:45 pm

       Ground Control to Chairman Elon
       Ground Control to Chairman Elon
       Take your vitamin pills and put your condom on
       Ground Control to Chairman Elon

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     • SomeDAM Poet says:

       May 22, 2022 at 1:51 pm

       Ground Control to Chairman Elon
       Ground Control to Chairman Elon
       Take Viagra pills and put your condom on
       Ground Control to Chairman Elon

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     • SomeDAM Poet says:

       May 22, 2022 at 1:56 pm

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   • dianeravitch says:

     May 21, 2022 at 2:25 pm

     Susan, exactly right.

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   • Bob Shepherd says:

     May 21, 2022 at 5:28 pm

     Nailed it, Susan.

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   • Joel says:

     May 21, 2022 at 8:31 pm

     Susan L Osberg

     Now I would not presume to know when it was that you were growing up. However I think Stewart Stevens and I would disagree with you. By 1964 the Republican Party had changed. Nelson Rockefeller was booed off the Podium (Civil Rights ) .

     BY 1968 they colluded to sabotage Johnson’s peace deal . By 72 using CIA types to break into Democratic Headquarters and lets not forget the “Southern Strategy”.
     If not for the tapes Nixon would not have been abandoned.

     By 80 we had “Welfare Queens” Voodoo Economics from tax cuts to deregulation. And I would bet the House a scuttling of the Hostage release. The I don’t recall defense invented by the —-bag Reagan . Followed by Bush pardoning the criminal conspirators .Then in 88 there was that Willie Horton thing .

     Which brings us to the utter hypocrisy of impeaching Clinton for lying about a sexual affair with a consenting 24 year old Adult.

     I left a lot of blanks.
     “It Was Always a Lie”

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     • Joel says:

       May 21, 2022 at 8:52 pm

       Correction: 21 year old.

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     • Susan L Osberg says:

       May 22, 2022 at 12:22 pm

       Point of information…I was a child at the time of Dwight Eisenhower….

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4. loved2teach says:

   May 21, 2022 at 3:36 pm

   What everyone doesn’t understand is that if Trump won & stayed president, then those lives could have been saved because then, of course he might have endorsed the vaccines harder since he, Donald the Magnificent, had pushed the vaccines to be created in record time. Then I’m sure his minions would have taken the shots—or maybe not? Is it terrible to say that those who refused the vaccs for stupid reasons, not true medical reasons, got what they deserved? Ouch, that’s cold, but…. oh well.

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   • Daedalus says:

     May 21, 2022 at 5:20 pm

     ‘Donald’ is an extreme narcissist. If he did anything for someone else, it was by mistake.

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     • Bob Shepherd says:

       May 21, 2022 at 5:29 pm

       Exactly

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     • SomeDAM Poet says:

       May 22, 2022 at 9:14 am

       Like most narcissists, Trump is also a liarcissist

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   • Joel says:

     May 21, 2022 at 8:34 pm

     Call me cold!

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   • Joel says:

     May 22, 2022 at 11:13 am

     I agree with your central point . However the 2nd big lie was that Trump pushed the development of the Vaccine . We will leave Pfizer out for now they received no US dollars for their Vaccine development or testing . They did receive German dollars to build production facilities.

     Operation warp speed a very catchy name was announced on May 15 2020. Yet

     “Moderna delivered the first doses of its Covid-19 vaccine to the NIH for testing on Feb. 24, 2020, and “the first Moderna shot went into a volunteer’s arm in Seattle on March 16, 2020,” ”

     The Chinese released the genetic code on Jan 31 and within days Moderna and Pfizer had similar candidates ready for testing . In February and early March Trump was still calling the virus a hoax .

     Sadly it was the virus that sped up development of the vaccine.

     It created plenty of infection to collect data against . Plenty of volunteers for a Jab . And a market for any vaccine that was developed. The risk for Governments who did not commit to buying the eventual Pfizer vaccine was being locked out of the early market.

     For most disease those elements are present to a far lesser degree. Making it to risky for Pharma (in a capitalist system) to make the investment necessary to test at the scale that Pfizer did without any Government money .

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5. FLERP! says:

   May 21, 2022 at 3:37 pm

   Even today, the “surge” in NYC hospitalizations is almost entirely unvaccinated.

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   • NYC public school parent says:

     May 21, 2022 at 6:51 pm

     Unfortunately, we have learned the hard way that the danger of COVID isn’t just being hospitalized. Even mild cases can later cause problems. Worrisome about all the kids too young for vaccines and what long term effects might be. Sure most will be fine, but how many deaths are acceptable? That is always the question.

     I grew up in the 60s. We didn’t have car seats or use seat belts and piled into the “way back” of station wagons. I knew hundreds (really thousands) of children growing up, and the only one in my entire community I knew who died in a car crash was a graduating senior drunk driving. That was before MADD made people far more aware of the dangers of driving drunk.

     We know using seat belts and car seats save lives. But are the numbers worth it? Are they worth it for babies and toddlers only?

     Lots of children have to suffer “discomfort” of car seats and seat belts just so a few more might live. Just like they might have to suffer the discomfort of masks just so a few more might live.

     But you are absolutely right that the danger to the unvaccinated is much higher.

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6. Bob Shepherd says:

   May 21, 2022 at 5:15 pm

   Trump has the blood of hundreds of thousands of Americans on his dirty little hands.

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   • Wait, What? says:

     May 21, 2022 at 7:08 pm

     And there it is!
     And, very few seem to care how that tactic has infected hundreds of elected representatives and leaders and hundreds of thousands of voters

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     • Bob Shepherd says:

       May 21, 2022 at 8:01 pm

       Yes. I look at Trump and his enablers, now, and I see them drenched in the blood of their constituents. What a horror show.

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     • drext727 says:

       May 21, 2022 at 11:40 pm

       on a morbid thought….if they keep it up, they might kill off enough of themselves to make winning elections easier…

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     • GregB says:

       May 22, 2022 at 2:09 pm

       Why assume that thought is morbid? It would be the only silver lining I’ve yet seen in this Covid cloud.

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7. James Eales says:

   May 21, 2022 at 10:40 pm

   Studies show that hundreds of lives (200,000+) could have been saved if Medicare for All had been implemented before the pandemic began. The government’s failure(s) are many/bipartisan.

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8. Joel says:

   May 22, 2022 at 12:04 pm

   So let us assume that M4all was supported by every we have Democrat.. How many Republicans was it supported by . The false equivalence is absurd . As the proposal has never come for a vote we have to use proxy’s to judge. We know that more than half the house Democrats have co sponsored the Bill . How many Republicans ???? That would be ZEROOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

   The Pro act a good proxy received the vote of all but one Democrat who abstained . But only 5 Republicans . 223 + to 5 in what world are those both responsible.

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   • Joel says:

     May 22, 2022 at 12:06 pm

     Correction

     So let us assume that M4all was supported by every Democrat we have.

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     • James Eales says:

       May 22, 2022 at 12:19 pm

       Most Democrats and most Republicans support Medicare for All. Alas, the “leadership” of the two corporate-sponsored political parties opposes Medicare for All. Citizens needlessly die every single day and hundreds of thousands of Americans declare bankruptcy each year due to an extremely dysfunctional health care system. The system’s priority is to generate profits, not healthy citizens.

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     • jwund@frontiernet.net says:

       May 23, 2022 at 7:51 pm

       So, James, why do we call this a ‘democracy’?

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9. Daedalus says:

   May 22, 2022 at 3:07 pm

   True, Flerp. However Salk did it first (before we even knew about mRNA). We didn’t get the vaccines ‘fast’ because we turned over our medical research to private corporations. By limiting information so as to control an eventual ‘patent’, one actually slows down progress and creates BS. Remember ‘cold fusion’? That was caused because the scientific community could not examine what was going on simply because a handful of people wanted a patent.

   Once, it was clear that the Soviet Union had problems with science because ‘secrecy’ kept them from communicating with the world. Then, I worked (summers) at an AEC site, and found out that we had the same problem. Science dies in ‘secrecy’, and so does democracy.

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