As a graduate of an excellent, life-changing women’s college, this story strikes me as bizarre.
Harvard is trying to stamp out single-sex fraternities and sororities. Students who belong to them will be banned from no,ding campus leadership roles. National sororities and fraternities are suing the university for violating their freedom of association, as well they should.
The university says that it wants to stamp out exclusion.
Harvard is taking legal action to preserve its punitive policies towardsthose who join sororities or fraternities.
Nuts.
Diane Ravitch's blog 
The obvious parallel between organizations that are segregated by sex or gender is organizations that are segregated by race or ethnicity. How can one be condemned and the other praised?
There is also the issue of violence against women that is disproportionally associated with fraternities: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/24/rape-sexual-assault-ban-frats
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TE,
Do sororities engage in violence against men?
Are you opposed to single-gender women’s colleges like the one I attended, Wellesley, or only to men’s fraternities?
There is a huge difference between racial segregation–where students are assigned based on their race–and girls’ right to choose to attend an all-female school or college.
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TE,
Your replies here are posted by my sufferance. When you are snarky, sarcastic, snide, or displaying your intellectual superiority, your comments do not appear. End of story.
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Why can’t there be room for everybody!
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This is so bizarre that I can 1/2 believe that this was pushed by some kind of infiltrator or small group working on behalf of those who want to stand up another Political Correctness strawman just so they can attack it. Even worse would be if those responsible at Harvard are actually serious and think this is a good idea. Just…..WOW…
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After reading Harvard’s position, it seems they are trying to throw out the baby with the bath water by tossing the tub out the window rather than just giving the tub a proper cleaning.
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I don’t find this bizarre at all. Harvard applied this only to the class of ’21 and onward, so students applying to the university were informed that this would be the case. If the class of ’21 and ’22 feel they were misled and believed they could have their privilege and still get what they wanted from the university, then this policy can start next year with each applicant signing that they know exactly what they are applying for.
If a student felt the need to join a club that would exclude students that he or she did not want to have to associate with, that student was free to apply to Harvard knowing that if he was admitted and chose to attend, joining such an organization would mean he could not captain a team or get the university’s endorsement for the Rhodes scholarship.
And that student would have been free to apply to a university where he or she would not be prevented from taking full advantage of his or her privilege for 4 years without sacrificing something that may or may not be important to that student.
There are other universities and colleges — like Amherst, Williams, Middleburg and Bowdoin — which have banned Greek organizations altogether.
Unlike those other colleges, Harvard is recognizing that those privileged students might find it far too difficult to give up a way to easily associate with other students of privilege while excluding students who they deem NOKD, so Harvard is not forbidding those students who cannot do without their finals clubs from joining them. They may have to sacrifice something else, but that is completely the choice of each student.
I don’t really see the problem here. Plenty of other universities to apply to if that is important to the student.
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NYCpsp,
What is NOKD? Thanks!
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Not Our Kind, Dear. For the love of God can we just start spelling words again!! There was an uproar over Eubonics and then Spanglish, but for some reason the tech lingo is OK? I just don’t get it.
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Google, Duane, Google! 🤣😂🤣
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Those who supply unidentified acronyms have the responsibility to identify them. Common courtesy, eh!
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Duane,
You have an excellent point and I should not have used that acronym without including what it stood for. I’m sorry!
NOKD (“Not Our Kind Dear”) is the phrase that rich, privileged people use to describe those who they do not want to associate with.*
** That’s a stereotype — I don’t even know if rich people use that term now or if they ever did, but it is shorthand for the attitude that some people are not worthy of being in their social circle and excluding them is absolutely necessary.
I thought I was going out on a limb when I posted my approval of Harvard’s policy, but I’m glad that other people seem to agree.
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I am an alum and happy that Harvard is doing this. When I was an undergrad, only about 5% of male students belonged to private clubs and fraternities. These organizations did not allow women to join. Most of them were also limited by class, in part because belonging cost money. As of a few years ago, nearly 30% of male and female Harvard undergrads belonged to single sex and select admission organizations. I am proud of Harvard for pushing against this kind of exclusionary and elitist association.
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It doesn’t sound like a bad idea to me? It seems like most of the “troubles” that colleges seem to have start at a Frat/Sorority house. This may be a good way for the universities to control the madness of young adults gone wild. I always thought Greek life was creepy and intrusive. The kids are there to go to school and expand their horizons and the greek life seems to be a never ending party with really bad outcomes. Sometimes change is good.
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Lisa,
First, let me say that I am old. Secondly, let me say that ‘frat’ is derogatory… it sounds bad and glosses over the meaning of the word ‘fraternity’ (and the succeeding ‘liberty’ and ‘egalite”) . Why aren’t sororities known as ‘Sors, or Soro’s?
But, let me give you a bit of my history. My father never graduated from High School. My mother got that far, but never attended college. I was lucky enough to attend High School in the 1950’s, a time when the ruling elite was scared stiff about the possibility that the Russians might surpass us. As a result, I was given access to an excellent education so I could serve as a ‘mandarin’.
In the second semester of my Freshman year at a fairly exclusive college, I was ‘rushed’ by several fraternities. I chose to join one because it was CHEAPER to live in the fraternity house and eat there than it was to live on campus. The fraternity house was off-campus and owned by the fraternity, so the maintenance of the place was in the hand of the members. As a result, we had a crash course in ‘home economics’, although the ‘national’ chapter loomed as an external hand to intervene should things go awry. Weekend ‘parties’ were certainly part of the scene, they were considered an obligation by those in charge, a ‘mixer’ like a High School dance.
I ‘rose’ in the fraternity because we were encouraged to take on obligations for the benefit of the whole (fraternity society). First, I was ‘float chairman’, directing the design and construction of the first place Homecoming float (an exercise in both management, graphic design and psychology). Next, I became ‘house manager’, responsible for the nuts and bolts of managing the various outside contractors (food, for example) and keeping the establishment solvent. You may think of this as being ‘trivial’, however bear in mind that it I was an Astronomy/Physics major and around the age of 20. My experience certainly added a lot to that. I was probably in line for a higher position, however….
In my junior year, the University decreed that ALL fraternities had to move into campus housing. And, we were ‘chosen’ to be one of the first. Thus, our traditional house was closed and the ‘brothers’ took up residence in university-owned housing. I was left (as ‘house manager’) to live in the old building to prevent ‘vandalism’ (extraction of pipes, for example) that would diminish the value of the former “frat house”, our home. There were no problems because I (a jazz fan) had built a bridge into the surrounding Black community. Those days were, however, a bit lonely.
During that time, however, I noticed that the ‘ethic’ of the younger members of the fraternity became more ‘party’ orientated. After the removal of autonomy and responsibility, what else remained?
So, the ‘problem’ with fraternities is (in my experience) created by divesting them of the responsibility they once had for providing not only a physical place to live and eat, but an opportunity to learn how to interact in a larger society. To blame ‘frats’ or their female alternatives is very similar to blaming public school teachers for the result caused by regimens forced upon them.
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So let me point this out to you. You were a token and you were used. You were the poor or middle class kid that got “accepted” and in return for their “brotherhood” (that just makes my stomach turn) you got to do the dirty work of keeping the place running smoothly and efficiently so that the rich boys could coast along and have a good time. Sure, they would help you out with the “required” service projects, but you were the unpaid project manager for them. Sorry, but your story is the epitome of privileged, greek life in it’s “finest” and another good reason for it to fade away.
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Lisa,
I volunteered to serve on the Democratic Party county executive committee for no pay. I volunteered to help organize my district for no pay. I volunteered to help several candidates for no pay. I volunteered to be manager of the local farmers market for no pay. I served as both treasurer and secretary of said market for no pay. I wrote for, and edited a column in the local paper for no pay. Not to mention what I did in various schools for no pay.
And, so, you would say that I was being ‘used’. However, I found that, without seeking any reward, I often got back at least as much as I gave and, in my personal evaluation, much more.
Looking back, I think a lot of my ethic was enhanced by my fraternity experience. At no time did I feel ‘subservient’ and, in fact, the ‘rich kids’ were not at all separate. We didn’t even notice. And, I also learned that wealth was a poor measure of value. I was in line to be President (not by my design), but the University had different ideas. Instead of seeking ‘independent growth’, the University demanded (taught) submission to authority.
My fraternity experience later allowed me to feel comfortable discussing school dynamics with the billionaire business partner of a former Treas. Sec., and at the same time helped me incorporate an understanding of ‘egalite, fraternite and, yes, liberte’. I have had no ‘boost’ in my ‘career’ as a teacher from my membership in a fraternity, and I don’t think I’ve ever listed it as a ‘credential’.
Of course, my understanding of ‘value’ doesn’t revolve around money. I am fortunate enough to have almost no mortgage debt on my home, and live fairly comfortably on my pension of about 1K and my social security payment of about the same amount. Thanks to my ‘community service’, I know that my immediate neighbors will help in any way they can (including taking me into their home, should I need it), and the two neighbors I trust the most never graduated from High School.
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Finding it difficult to get worked up about this one, as a practical matter.
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I’m witcha on this.
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Personally I never saw much worth redeeming in Greek culture. In college I was pretty much equally disgusted with fraternities and sororities, each of which seemed to bring out the worst tendencies you could imagine in groups of young men and young women with high social/sexual anxieties, coupled with extreme substance abuse. I’m sure Harvard is pretty tame compared to other schools, but even so, I would be vocally disappointed if my son or daughter wanted to “rush” any frat or sorority.
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Witcha all over again! In my experience, fraternities and sororities are actually more important for post-graduation networking and connections. Much like Ivy League degrees, which have never, at least in my experience, corresponded with ability, intelligence or aptitude. Only connections. But never having had those connections, perhaps my feelings can be distilled into envy.
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For a good laugh, everyone should watch the opening scene of “The Social Network” and Mark Zuckerberg’s obsession with joining the right Finals Club at Harvard and the reaction of his date.
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Since I could not reply to your later comment, let me do it here.
Please don’t call fraternities ‘frats’. Use the word ‘fraternity’, it’s not poison.
Although I found my fraternity experience to be educational, I’m not sure what ‘Greek Life’ is today. The University eliminated the autonomy that fraternities once had and, as a result, eliminated the responsibility they had for providing food and shelter. Those who view ‘Animal House’ as a glimpse into fraternity life are way off base (at least in my experience).
The ethic of a fraternity was similar to the ethic of Law Schools, or Medical schools. The pretense is that only the ‘elite’ are chosen (but, of course, the quota will be filled), and that only after ‘proving worthy’ can you become ‘one of us’. This pattern is so common in human history that it almost defines the way we raise our children. Think, for example, of ‘Confirmation’ in the Protestant Church, or ‘Bar/Bat Mitzvah’
Come to think of it, isn’t that the way of medieval academia, passed down to us teachers today?
So, don’t be too surprised or disappointed if your offspring feels a tug toward ‘belonging’ to a ‘Greek’ organization. The ancient Greeks (Athenian, most importantly), were a wonderful people that essentially mapped out the course of Western Civilization (brief 1,000 year lapse during the Dark Ages).
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I cannot understand how to equate attending an all women’s college with protecting fraternities and sororities at Harvard. Fraternities and sororities have historically served as elitist clubs. There is no reason for them to exist. Campus community organizations formed to serve the entire campus body are far more inclusive and helpful to the greater good of all students than an exclusive fraternity or sorority in which one must have just the right parentage or level of perceived class to be considered, never mind the hoops one must jump through in order to prove oneself ‘worthy’. Nothing will convince me that these snooty private clubs are worth anyone’s time. I have read your blog for years and have molded much of my own education politics as a teacher from your incredibly informative views. However, this is a non-issue that is long past it’s elitist due date.
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I take it you never belonged to a fraternity…
Please see my long note to ‘Lisa’, above.
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The Greek System is a blight on American Universities. Fraternities and sororities are not automatically entitled to the university’s approval.
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Really? If so, it is the University system that brought upon itself that blight (see my earlier comments to Lisa).
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Yeah, I have to say you’ve lost me on this one. Greek life needs to be fazed out. I don’t see the value and it’s a huge liability for the college. I would prefer to pay tuition for my child to attend a school without at sorority or fraternity. Colleges shouldn’t sanction Bacchanalian rites.
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I never had any interest in a Greek fraternity in college. Then I saw “Animal House”. John Belushi must be turning in his grave.
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Who condemns all black or all female colleges? Or are they now no longer allowed?
Drat. I missed that. Not paying enough attention, I suppose.
When I graduated Holy Cross it was all men.
The new class that fall was the first coed class.
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This isn’t about an objection to the idea of single sex groups. As a product of a university steeped in fraternity and sorority culture and social strata, I am all for banning them. Their purpose is to make a certain group of individuals feel superior simply by arbitrarily excluding others. They perpetuate extreme racism, extreme sexism, division and unearned rewards. Off with their heads!
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I’m constantly amazed at how vicious women are. ‘Off with their heads!’ ?
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I remember when the Masters started accepting black members and just a few years afterward Tiger Woods played and won. Fact is, the Bill of Rights doesn’t really protect discrimination. It’s not supposed to be the Bill of Wrongs.
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While I am not a fan of fraternities and sororities (and am happy that the college where I am on the faculty teach doesn’t have them), it seems to me that banning all single sex organizations is a bit heavy handed. If there are individual organizations which are problematic, review them and reform the or get rid of them. Otherwise, leave them alone. Single sex organizations were never really my thing, but I knew women in my discipline who felt that the Association for Women in Mathematics was an important outlet.
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Not commenting about the post subject, but about Duane’s comment. Can someone please tell me what LMAO means? Thanks!
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LMAO=Laughing My Ass Off.
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