Various media outlets have reported that Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy’s son heads the real estate division at Deutsche Bank, which loaned Donald Trump $1 Billion when he was blackballed by every other bank.
Should these ties have been made public?
Diane Ravitch's blog 
The answer to your question – should these ties been made known – is of course, YES. But that was before we lost all moral compass and expected more from our leaders.
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Trump discloses nothing. Not his tax returns. Not his acceptance of foreign money, in violation of the Constitution’s Emoluments Clause, not his conflicts of interest, not his adult children’s financial conflicts.
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This amount of non-disclosure implies there is much he is hiding…….hmmm……
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“before we lost all moral compass”
Corrected to “before the GOP and corporate owned Democrats sold their moral compass to the highest bidder”
I don’t think everyone has lost “our”individual moral compasses.
For instance, Democratic socialist Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez defeated Rep. Joe Crowley, a Democrat that sold his moral compass to corporations long ago.
I think Alexandria still owns her moral compass. I hope she keeps it.
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Yes.
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Not to play devil’s advocate, but actually just curious. Why would this need to be disclosed?
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Trump has direct and immediate financial ties to Justice Kennedy’s son. Like $1 Billion. Is that not worthy of disclosure?
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That’s my question. Is it? If so, why?
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Let me put this differently. The typical reason why financial relationships need to be disclosed is because they create the potential for conflicts of interest. When a new case comes before a federal judge, the judge needs to disclose whether he or she has significant financial ties with any of the parties. The reason is obvious: a judge that owns a ton of stock in IBM may have an incentive to favor IBM by avoiding rulings that cause financial damage to IBM or by making rulings that benefit IBM financially.
Does the business relationship between Kennedy’s son and Trump create a conflict of interest? If so, who has the conflict, and what is the risk created by that conflict? I’m not saying there isn’t a conflict of interest at issue here. I’m just saying if there is, I haven’t been able to identify it. Anyone?
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How about this, FLERP?
https://www.cnn.com/2017/11/15/politics/justice-department-investigation-russian-laundering-deutsche-bank/index.html
$10 Billion. Deutsche Bank needs a friend in the White House. No conflict?
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Thanks. I will ruminate on this.
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More on Trump and Deutsche Bank.
http://www.newsweek.com/2017/12/29/donald-trump-russia-secret-deutsche-bank-753780.html
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Ruminate some more.
https://www.npr.org/2017/12/05/568564737/subpoena-for-deutsche-bank-may-put-mueller-on-collision-course-with-trump
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The general theory developing in this thread relates to possible motives for Deutsche Bank to curry favor with the President. I get that point. But those motives would be there regardless of whether Justice Kennedy’s son worked at Deutsche Bank. Are there any bad motives that could be ascribed to Justice Kennedy himself as a result of the financial relationship between his son and Trump? What would those motives be?
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The Trump administration is in a position to help Deutsche Bank. Bigly.
Kennedy can help Trump, Father and son.
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FLERP,
It doesn’t look complicated. Deutsche Bank needs a very big favor from Trump.
Trump needs a very big favor from Justice Kennedy.
Keep your eye on the Justice Department and Deutsche Bank.
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I wonder if Deutsche Bank’s $10-Billion Scandal has anything to do with it. The Russians are involved that’s similar to what Trump was doing for the Russian mob.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/08/29/deutsche-banks-10-billion-scandal
Then there this.
“Since the financial crisis a decade ago, the German institution’s giant investment banking operations have lagged well behind those of its rivals.” …
“When United States regulators proposed that large foreign banks maintain higher capital at their U.S. subsidiaries, Deutsche, which has a big presence in the United States, resisted and moved to avoid the requirements. But the United States regulators mostly held firm, which may be one reason Deutsche is finally retrenching.”
Clearly, Deutsche Bank is in trouble and needs help with the United States regulators. The question should be: What deal (an offer that could not be refused) did Trump offer Roberts so Trump would do something as President to help Deutsche Bank with its U.S. problems and how much will Trump’s family business gain from it — another billion dollar loan?
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This was written about Deutsche Bank before the election.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/08/29/deutsche-banks-10-billion-scandal
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There is no direct, provable quid pro quo, but their friendly financial relationship is suggestive of a lack of judicial and executive impartiality. That’s frightening. Kennedy’s been siding with the “conservatives” since Trump took office. I would like to have more financial transparency from our leaders. Were laws broken? I don’t know. Were ethical standards broken? It appears so.
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http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/31/investing/deutsche-bank-us-fine-russia-money-laundering/index.html
Now the Justice Department is backing away. I wonder why.
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Yes, especially if reports are true that he courted this judge for a year and a half over his imminent retirement.
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But what is it relevant to? Assume that Kennedy’s son was authorizing loans to Trump in an attempt to curry favor or as part of a quid pro quo. Are we really concerned about Trump being beholden to Kennedy, or giving Kennedy special treatment, in exchange for the loans Trump got? What improper, special treatment could Trump possibly give Kennedy that we would be concerned about? If anything, we would be concerned about the reverse—Kennedy being in debt to Trump. But I don’t see how that risk arises from loans that Deutche Bank made to Trump.
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I think the involvements or entanglements of govt business (esp. highest court/highest office), family and a big bank loan is too much, gives a sense of potential risk — all of those relationships are either potentially or actually complex — and impropriety by sheer circumstance. I’m just going by common sense, whatever I have left of it at this point.
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.salon.com/amp/did-anthony-kennedys-son-loan-donald-trump-1-billion
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What if Kennedy’s son was helping Russia launder money by real estate loans to Trump?
He would help his son get away with that if Trump’s justice department stopped investigating the bank.
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Appears you are a trump troll!
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FLERP! is either an attorney or boxer Tyson Fury. My money’s on Fury. Because I don’t want him to hurt me.
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LCT — I’m a longtime boxing fan, but just a fan. Tyson Fury has about 4 inches and 40 to 140 pounds on me, depending on whether he’s in training (which he usually is not).
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Or himself.
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I agree, the timing of the retirement looks a lot like a favor to Trump and also an attempt to escape from publicity, during his tenure on the Court, about the financial entanglements between his son and Trump.
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But why would the business relationship between Deutsche Bank and Trump motivate Kennedy to bestow a favor on Trump? What does Kennedy need from Trump?
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Honesty and transparency should be absolutely required of those in high office.
Kennedy’s son kept Trump afloat when no other bank would Tough him. Deutsche Bank is now under investigation for laundering money for Russiam oligarchs. Having a friend in the White House will help the bank.
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FLERP!,
Kennedy needs Trump to quash an investigation into Deutche Bank that might involve his son’s dealings with questionable sources of money (i.e. Russian money laundering).
If Trump holds something over Kennedy, that is very, very bad and might be the reason Kennedy went along with the far right Supreme Court decisions.
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Deutche Bank is not an American Bank. It’s German. It was involved in Auschwitz. It was sued by holocaust survivors. Shorty after the war, it was broken up into three banks which later merged back together. A movie was made about Deutche and its deep involvement in the financial meltdown of 2008, The Big Short. Then there was the Libor Scandal. Now the bank is a subject of Robert Muller’s investigation. Trump told Justice Kennedy his Deutche son was really special. I’m certain that’s right. He must be a real piece of work.
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This is what you need to know about Deutsche Bank and why it needs Trump.
https://www.cnn.com/2017/11/15/politics/justice-department-investigation-russian-laundering-deutsche-bank/index.html
http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/31/investing/deutsche-bank-us-fine-russia-money-laundering/index.html
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Yes it certainly was a conflict of interest!
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Trumpian troll Flerp never refutes content of articles cited by DR. Clever AI programming to pose a tangential query while not sounding hostile! Perhaps the collusion with tweety and the Russians continues in the ruskies proficiency with AI!
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Thank you, I take great pride in my AI programming.
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Lougiglio,
You nailed the description of the actions, even if your premise is (most likely) wrong.
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Yes it certainly was a conflict of interest! You keep on saying duplicate! Not true! I send it to the Democratic Education Co in PBC, Fl . Think she is terrific and a great mind. Saw her in person twice.
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Diane…that was a rhetorical question you asked, right?
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Rhetorical, yes, but aren’t we all?
Little bits of electricity and rhetoric.
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Kennedy’s son hasn’t worked for Deustche Bank since 2009. Snopes looks on this as an “unproven” claim.
I am NO Trump fan, and Kennedy was never my favorite, either. But let’s debate the real stuff here.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/anthony-kennedy-resignation-trump/
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Interesting. Watch what happens to the DOJ investigation of Deutsche Bank anyway. Trump owes them big time.
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Here’s another article on the subject. Kennedy’s son wasn’t even around when the whole possible “Russia-induced” loan to Trump happened.
Kennedy has talked retirement for several years now. This wasn’t a total surprise, and Kennedy is okay with Trump replacing him. Ruth Bader Ginsberg has been hanging on until a Democrat is president, or she would retire, too. THey’re both over 80 years old. This isn’t a new thing.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/07/anthony-kennedy-conspiracy-theories-are-a-liberal-delusion.html
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Sorry. I’m a Supreme Court nerd, partly because my spouse is REALLY a Supreme Court nerd. We were the only people I knew of who had a signed picture of William Rehnquist framed and on display in our living room.
So we are total Court watchers.
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“a signed picture of William Rehnquist framed and on display in our living room.”
Is that because the right wing Rehnquist is a favorite Justice?
Funny, he was appointed by that other criminal in the White House, Richard Nixon.
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No right-wing stuff here. We’re both Democrats. My spouse just REALLY loves the Supremes, and Rehnquist was the only one to send back a picture.
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LOL.
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Threatened Out West,
The Snopes article you linked to specifically quotes the NY Times and does not contradict any facts in this quote:
“[Anthony Kennedy and Donald Trump] had a connection, one Mr. Trump was quick to note in the moments after his first address to Congress in February 2017. As he made his way out of the chamber, Mr. Trump paused to chat with the justice.
“Say hello to your boy,” Mr. Trump said. “Special guy.”
Mr. Trump was apparently referring to Justice Kennedy’s son, Justin. The younger Mr. Kennedy spent more than a decade at Deutsche Bank, eventually rising to become the bank’s global head of real estate capital markets, and he worked closely with Mr. Trump when he was a real estate developer, according to two people with knowledge of his role.
During Mr. Kennedy’s tenure, Deutsche Bank became Mr. Trump’s most important lender, dispensing well over $1 billion in loans to him for the renovation and construction of skyscrapers in New York and Chicago at a time other mainstream banks were wary of doing business with him because of his troubled business history.”
“DURING MR. KENNEDY’S TENURE…” Nothing in Snopes disputes that fact of massive lending to Trump.
From Snopes itself:
“The level of engagement Justin Kennedy might have had with Donald Trump’s financial dealings at Deutsche Bank remains ambiguous for now, but the New York Times gave little weight to the notion that Anthony Kennedy was directly pressured into retiring,”
So what is true and what Snopes agrees is true is that Kennedy’s son lent Trump a whole lot of money. And what is true is that the money was lent when American banks wouldn’t loan to Trump because he mismanaged his properties so poorly but Kennedy’s son was willing to do so. And what is true is that Deutsche Bank was caught after Kennedy left making loans to launder Russian money.
Of course this should be reported and looked closely at. Compared to the innuendo regarding the donations to the Clinton Foundation, there is a real question of why these huge Deutsche Bank loans were being made to someone with such a terrible credit risk.
Kind of like when Trump’s big fundraiser was using his bank that specialized in loans to veterans and “loaning” Paul Manafort enough money for a Brooklyn townhouse that it was a huge percentage of that veterans’ only bank’s entire annual loan portfolio. And funny enough, that loan happened after Manafort had to step down and keep his mouth shut. But I’m sure the reason that the guy with close ties to the Trump campaign suddenly decided to use his veteran’s loan bank to give a loan quadruple the size that any a veteran would get to Paul Manafort was just a very happy coincidence.
When people in business make very bad business deals that enormously benefit someone who is a bad credit risk (unless they win an election), questions should always be asked. I’m shocked that we are supposed to say “oh well, just business as usual, let’s move on”.
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I’m not going to get into an argument with you. You do that a lot. But Justin Kennedy was gone from Deustche Bank by 2009. That’s way before all of this stuff happened.
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Inside the White House’s Quiet Campaign to Create a Supreme Court Opening https://nyti.ms/2KwwMoo?smid=nytcore-ios-share
Justice Kennedy’s retirement clears the way for a far-right Court that will reverse Kennedy’s most memorable decisions. Although a conservative, he defended Roe V. Wade. He was the key vote in approving gay marriage. In his absence, these two significant decisions may be overturned. Trump has stated that he intends to appoint pro-life, anti-abortion judges. Within a few short years, abortion rights will disappear in all but a few blue states.
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Abortions will be illegal, but that will not stop women that want an abortion from having one. The risk of infection and death will skyrocket just like it has in every country that has made abortion illegal.
An illegal abortion is an unsafe abortion.
“Every year, worldwide, about 42 million women with unintended pregnancies choose abortion, and nearly half of these procedures, 20 million, are unsafe. Some 68,000 women die of unsafe abortion annually, making it one of the leading causes of maternal mortality (13%). Of the women who survive unsafe abortion, 5 million will suffer long-term health complications.”
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2709326/
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I am really confused. Kennedy’s son engineered a loan for Trump when no one else would. Kennedy retires so Trump can pick someone who will reverse decisions which he supported. Huh? I’m having trouble seeing where the conflict of interest is. Did Trump do something that benefits either Kennedy?
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I’ve tried to listen to this with an open mind, speduktr, but I have yet to hear any theory of quid pro quo that makes any sense. Seems akin to the conspiracy theories about the Clinton foundation. I could type more, but if just be retyping what this Slate piece says.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/07/anthony-kennedy-conspiracy-theories-are-a-liberal-delusion.html
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Cx “I’d just be retyping,” not “if just be retyping.”
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I don’t know what motivated Justice Kennedy to end his career by abandoning his role as a moderating force—pro-abortion and pro-gay marriage—and join with the hardcore conservatives to undercut labor unions (reversing a 40-year-old precedent), okaying racial gerrymandering, and joining the 5-man majority on other decisions that are hard-right. I don’t know why he retired, giving Trump another seat, knowing that Trump would shred his legacy. I do know that his son was at Deutsche Bank when he okayed a $1 billion loan to a man that no other bank would touch because of multiple bankruptcies. That bank is now under DOJ investigation for laundering Russiam money. According to CNN, the DOJ is slowing down the investigation, which could cause the bank billions in penalties. Any connection? I don’t know.
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Kennedy may have been much less of a moderate than you think. He may have been very satisfied with Trump’s appointment of Gorsuch and confident that Trump would appoint a similarly high-credential conservative to replace his own seat. He may be tired and a bit off his high game. Every one of those speculative statements seems much more plausible to me than any of the conspiracy theories offered on this thread. I would advise Democrats to keep their eye on the ball rather than sink their energy into sinkholes like this.
To me, the fact that so many otherwise reasonable people are willing to credit theories like this is a sign that Trump and his chaos are winning more than ever.
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Kennedy was the swing vote that protected Roe v. Wade. He wrote the decision legalizing gay marriage. Both of those landmark decisions are likely to be swept away by the Trump Court. Why do you disagree?
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Why do I disagree with what? It’s not clear to me what you’re saying now.
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Threatened Out West,
I already said that Kennedy’s son was gone in 2009. The point is that those $1 billion in loans happened BEFORE Kennedy was gone.
And they happened when banks weren’t loaning to Trump because he was such a terrible credit risk.
You are acting as if it is an incontrovertible fact that no Russian money was ever laundered through Deutsche Bank before 2009. You act as if it is an incontrovertible fact that Kennedy’s son’s decision to do what other banks would not do and risk $1 billion of his bank’s cash is normal. it is not.
So why do you keep saying that it is normal to risk $1 billion of a bank’s assets on a loan to a businessman who has already gone bankrupt a number of times and whom other banks won’t lend to?
Everyone who deals with Trump gets covered with the slime. It is very likely that Kennedy’s son did as well. That doesn’t mean that Kennedy resigned so Trump could appoint his successor, but it does mean that his determination to resign so that this man who is – to any sentient American — entirely unsuited to be President and who cannot tell the truth if a lie suits his agenda — is very, very odd.
But iet’s go with your theory that Justice Kennedy is so impressed and in awe of Trump and is so convinced of his strong moral and ethical core that he decided no one but Trump should be appointing his successor. Because that certainly says a lot about Kennedy and the moral character he modeled for his Trump-loaning son. And it sure convinces me even more that Kennedy’s son’s tenure at Deutsche Bank should be looked at very carefully.
To you, it should not be because you already know it’s all a “nothing burger” as Trump would say.
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^^^To repeat the evidence that you simply ignored:
“The younger Mr. Kennedy spent more than a decade at Deutsche Bank, eventually rising to become the bank’s global head of real estate capital markets, and he worked closely with Mr. Trump when he was a real estate developer, according to two people with knowledge of his role.
During Mr. Kennedy’s tenure, Deutsche Bank became Mr. Trump’s most important lender, dispensing well over $1 billion in loans to him…at a time other mainstream banks were wary of doing business with him because of his troubled business history.”
That is quite shocking — banks don’t make loans to bad credit risks but Kennedy’s son was brave and strong enough to recognize that Trump was exactly the right person to loan $1 billion to. What’s your theory on that? Kennedy was impressed by Trump’s business acumen?
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Told ya—NYPSP, I won’t argue with you here. I’m tired of seeing the arguments several of you engage in on this page, and I won’t start one here.
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I’m sorry for implying in my post that you should be engaging with me. If you have nothing other than the facts you offered — which is that there is no specific evidence that Deutsche Bank was laundering money when Kennedy’s son was making loans but that earlier time has also not been investigated and it has been shown that they were in later years.
The fact you don’t want to engage with is that the Snopes article confirmed that Kennedy DID oversee loans of over $1 billion dollars to Trump when no other banks would lend to him because he was such a terrible credit risk. And Kennedy worked for many years for a bank which – after he left – was found to be laundering money.
To decide before a proper investigation that there is nothing there seems pretty ridiculous. It reminds me a lot of the Republicans claiming “Mueller hasn’t found anything we need to shut down the investigation.” Especially when your main evidence that all is completely kosher is the fact that you insist Kennedy is so impressed with Trump’s ethical standards and behavior that he specifically WANTS a President like Trump to choose his successor with absolutely no oversight by the Senate.
What does that say about Kennedy that he saw that the Senate might turn over and put a limit on Trump’s power and he said “but this guy is the guy who should appoint my successor”? That’s what we are supposed to think? Or maybe because his son spoke up for Trump’s ethical and moral standing?
Correct me if I am wrong, but your theory is that Kennedy’s admiration for Trump is the reason that he decided to suddenly resign so that Trump would have sole and unfettered power to choose his successor, correct? And therefore no one should ask any questions about this man’s son’s close involvement in keeping Trump’s business afloat through ill-advised loans.
Sorry if I disagree. And frankly, Trump’s comments to Kennedy about his son can either be signs that they are very very close or it sounds like a mob warning “I know your family, they seem like such nice people”.
No need to engage here. I just want to make sure that people actually read the Snopes article so they understand that there are absolutely questions to be asked and investigations to be done, not shut down because we are already certain that Kennedy’s son only lent Trump money because he admired his business acumen and knew the other banks just didn’t recognize it like he did. And Kennedy Senior admires Trump just as much as his son is and wanted to make sure he has unfettered power to appoint his successor.
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I have plenty of facts. But I don’t want to get into a shouting match with you. You seem to like those, and I just want to talk about education and general facts. Some things from this post have some questionable conclusions, and I was just pointing that out.
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Threatened Out West,
No one is “shouting” — why would you keep posting that when it is not true?
This is Diane Ravitch’s blog and she posted about Justice Kennedy’s conveniently timed retirement and his son’s unusual business decision to loan the Trump organization $1 billion dollars during a time when almost every other bank would not after being burned time and again by Trump’s poor business decisions. I’m sure it is merely a coincidence — and not worth investigating — that Kennedy’s son just happened to work for a bank later known to have an unusual expertise in laundering money.
There were many other posts made in which you could discuss education issues.
What “questionable conclusions” did anyone make except to note the facts of what happened? I suggest you read the post again which states only that during Kennedy’s son’s tenure at Deutsche Bank, Trump was given huge loans at a time when other banks wouldn’t loan him money.
You are assuming “conclusions” that no one is making. The only “conclusion” is that those loans were quite unusual in that no other bank was making them and that the bank that did make them happened to be later proven to be more than willing to launder money.
The only “conclusions” I see is that there is certainly something worth investigating here and there is certainly something worth reporting on.
It would be terrible if journalists knew that Kennedy’s son — who got a personal shout out from Trump — had overseen the department at Deutsche Bank that loaned Trump $1 billion when other banks would not and decided that it was something that the American people should not be told because everyone knows that it was absolutely on the up and up. In fact, we don’t. I’d sure be interested in knowing what Kenndy’s son saw in the Trump Organization that made him so determined to loan them money when other banks did not.
Wouldn’t you?
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Speduktr, re: did Trump do anything for either Kennedy.
Well, there’s this [from business insider’s 6/29 summary of NYT 6/28 article “Inside the White House’s Quiet Campaign to Create a Supreme Court Opening”]: “After nominating Neil Gorsuch [who had served as a law clerk to Justice Kennedy] to fill a Supreme Court vacancy in January 2017, Trump appointed three judges who had previously clerked for Kennedy to federal appeals courts [Bibas, Scudder and Murphy] and another two [Kavanaugh and Kethledge] on the shortlist to fill any subsequent vacancies on the Supreme Court.”
That’s 6 judicial nominations (Gorsuch, Bibas & Scudder confirmed) from Kennedy’s stable. Not a $$ quid pro quo at all — better summarized by NYT as Trump assures Kennedy that his legacy will be preserved, Kennedy feels comfortable in stepping down in time for a Trump-nominated replacement.
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I don’t see any direct conflict of interest issues connecting the huge 2005 loan J Kennedy engineered for Trump and the timing of A Kennedy’s retirement. J Kennedy’s DB RE branch sued Trump in 2008 for default on it; Trump countersued that year [claiming financial collapse was ‘force majeure’ & partly brought on byDB]; J Kennedy left DB the following yr [maybe pressured out after making that mess?]; Trump-DB settled the year after that (2010).
Interesting how they settled in 2010: DB’s branch for hi-net-worth clients extended Trump a personally-secured loan big enough for Trump to pay off the DB RE branch loan — plus a $25-50million credit loan! DB has indeed been good to Trump over the yrs…
DB’s $10billion “mirror-trading scheme” is pinned to 2011-15 actions unconnected to Trump accounts. But leaves one wondering: surely, Russian oligarch $ was being laundered in yrs before that– perhaps not so blatantly– perhaps thro big RE loans…
Maybe A Kennedy was hinting about retiring for a while (& finally did) as Mueller investigation got closer to Trump biz financial dealings. Mueller subpoenaed DB for Trump affiliate bank records in late Fall 2017. He may have wanted to be off the bench in case that big 2005 loan to Trump biz engineered by his son came under scrutiny.
Meanwhile all sources agree Trump currently owes DB about $300 million. Here’s your big conflict of interest>>> over Christmas week 2017, Trump quietly extended Obama’s 1-yr waiver of penalties to 5 prosecuted banks incl DB for another few yrs. That allows them to continue managing pension & other assets here– which represents 1/2 of their US revenues– at a time when they are in financial trouble. Of the 5 banks they are the worst player w/multiple big fines assessed — & the only 1 of the 5 to which Trump owes [big] money.
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An interesting other article to read about this:
https://www.salon.com/2018/07/02/its-not-about-the-money-donald-trump-anthony-kennedy-and-the-kid-at-deutsche-bank/
It isn’t just the loans when Kennedy’s son was at Deutsche Bank. It is that he left to join a company that also has unusual ties to financing the Kushners’ not very profitable real estate purchases.
No one knows whether these unusually close ties that Kennedy’s son had to the Trump/Kushner real estate family not just when he worked at Deutsche Bank but long after he become co-CEO at LNR had anything to do with the reason Kennedy chose to resign (after hiring next year’s clerks) so that his successor could be approved before the voters had a chance to weigh in on the Senate.
But it should certainly be looked at closely. It is clear that doing any business with the Trump and Kushner family often involves some highly questionable actions. And Kennedy’s son was CEO of a company involved in Kushner’s real estate “deals” after working very closely with the family when Deutsche Bank was making unprofitable loans to the Trump Organization.
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