On November 11, the Ohio State Board of Education will vote on a motion to eliminate crucial positions at elementary schools.
The Board will vote on whether to eliminate “specialist” positions, that include elementary schools arts teachers, elementary school music teachers, elementary school physical education teachers, school nurses, school library media specialists, school counselors, and school social workers.
Will they call it “reform”?
Here is Peter Greene, reporting on the same horrifying spectacle, with more detail.
He writes:
This morning comes word that the Ohio State Board of Education will vote this Tuesday on some revision to the school code. The most significant revision reportedly under consideration is one that would make end state requirements for elementary specialists.
Currently, school code states that for every thousand elementary students, schools must have in place five of the following eight specialists: art, music, counselor, school nurse, librarian/media specialist, visiting teacher, social worker, or phys ed.
The revision would eliminate the section that includes that language. What would be left is this definition of staff:
Educational service personnel are credentialed staff with the knowledge, skills and expertise to support the educational, instructional, health, mental health, and college/career readiness needs of students.
The appeal for districts is obvious. Let’s have one music teacher for 10,000 students. Let’s have no music teacher at all. Great. Let me mention that this article also came across my screen this morning: “Youngstown kids second poorest in nation” Do we really need to argue that the poorest, most vulnerable students are the ones who most need these sorts of services and enrichment? Is there somebody in Ohio prepared, seriously, to argue that nurses and music and art and phys ed are unnecessary luxuries, and kids should just pack up their grit and do without?
The Twitter hashtag for this abomination is #ohio5of8
Diane Ravitch's blog 
Sure! Eliminate everything from the proletariat. Let’s go back to the days when education was for the deserving aristocracy and the serfs worked the fields. We can skip the Renaissance and the Enlightenment. Why have democracy when we can strive for dictatorship?
Marion County, Florida, voted last year to eliminate media specialists, replacing them with library aides, cut music and art in half and limit pe teachers. It also became the state’s worst violator of class size, deciding the fine for exceeding mandated class size was less than the cost of hiring the needed teachers. The result? Over the past two years, Marion County has gone from 44th to 54th in the state out of 66 districts!
Ogden School District, Utah, cut all library media and reading specialists two years ago. That superintendent has just been made the superintendent of schools for Utah.
Let’s LYNCH the superintendent!! Seriously, “Let’s Lynch Him!!”
when will they get it?
Dirges in the Dark …
As bad as things seem, “I am not licked yet.”
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s6UbYHCkoZs
Reblogged this on Jack Of All Trades and commented:
This is a call to action. If you live in Ohio, voice your concerns! The rest of us need to be vocal or, as little sense as it makes, this could happen elsewhere.
The electorate already spoke when they reelected the republican majority.
cross posted at http://www.opednews.com/Quicklink/Ohio-Alert-Vote-on-Whethe-in-Best_Web_OpEds-Arts_Diane-Ravitch_Education_Librarians-141109-219.html#comment519267
with this comment:
15,880 districts in 50 states: here’s how it is done… ensuring that the only ones who get a full public education are the scions of the wealthy. Forget it kid, if you are not talented in math or computer skills, and love music and art. What kids needs physical education in an overweight nation that pushes caloric junk food.
No support staff for the teacher, so they can blame her for the failure of the administration to do their job.
Starve the state budget, so there is little money for the things that are for the ‘common good’ — health and education, infrastructure, but lots of money to put boots on the ground to fight scary thugs in foreign lands
…cut public education to the bone, and end the road to opportunity for the millions and the masses.
Only the kids of the captains and the kings can get a good education.
This is part of the “outcomes only” thinking favored by ALEC and governors who think the sole purpose of education is to produce workers and boost the economy. They pitch to the Chamber of Commerce, depend on that vote.
These “leaders” see no economic value to studies in the arts, no need for physical education (sports programs take care of that), and no need to provide K-12 students with library and media services, school nurses or counselors. Cope on your own with a rigorous, no-frill educational system. No excuses, just results.
Studies in the arts and humanities are also being cut in public universities, along with teacher education programs in the arts and humanities.
STEM is in–science, technology, engineering, mathematics–the arts are ok if and only if they serve these subjects and boost test scores that will save the economy and all the rest.
I am a STEM teacher, but rest assured that at least in my school, the STEM teachers support the arts strongly.
The “reasoning” you describe is mostly held by the deformers.
Oh, Diane, who cares. It’s public schools! They’re unfashionable. They’re political orphans.
We should be grateful the Ohio State Board of Education reluctantly turned their attention to our schools at all, even if it is to impose yet another economic sanction.
I hope they add another impossible to fulfill unfunded mandate. Usually these things come in pairs. Cuts plus new demands.
Grim, grim, grim. There is no upside of ed reform for existing public schools. It’s all losses. Our schools just take hit after hit after hit, while the ed reform “movement” rolls blissfully along, completely oblivious to the effects of these experiments on our schools.
At some point public school parents will start demanding some of these people we’re paying actually do something positive for our schools.
We AGREE!! the Bird.
If the parents were paying attention, they should have VOTED OUT the Republicans who are working to destroy public schools bit by bit. Kasich has CUT EDUCATION so far, that I’m surprised there was anything left to cut. He took so much money away, bus transportation has suffered, the disabled are worse off and being forced into general education before they’re ready, the teachers aren’t allowed to teach handwriting, and what we keep hearing is, they “don’t have time” for this or for that. They have to focus on the testing. Kasich is going by the Republican playbook until he sucks every penny from the poor & middle classes & moves it to his rich cronies. Jobs, unions, teachers, everyone will suffer.
Ohio public schools are gonna get slaughtered after the last election. So will MI, WI and FL.
They’ll interpret the election results as a mandate to double down on an anti-public school agenda. It’s selfish, but I’m glad my youngest is in 6th grade. It’ll take a while to see the results of the disinvestment and abandonment by lawmakers. It’s gradual. I watched it happen. Field trips went, then the art program was gutted, and now the music program is going. “Social studies” is pretty much gone in our school. It was eaten by test prep in math and english.
It’s a real betrayal of kids in public schools, and MOST kids are in public schools. The adults who got a solid public education in this state and now are setting policy that harms our schools should be ashamed of themselves. No one did that to THEM. The adults of that period supported their schools. They could AT LEAST return the favor to the generation that came after them. Irresponsible and reckless.
The teachers at some elementaries in Utah (the at-risk ones) are being told that they can ONLY teach three subjects: reading, writing, and math. No arts, no history, no science. These are the kids who need these other subjects the most.
That makes so much sense, especially when there is such a push for STEM nationwide. (Sarcasm off)
I guess science, engineering, and technology can be obtained from the App Store for a fee, and the arts, PE, and health can just be Googled if you want it.
This just makes me ill what’s happening in Ohio.
Art and Music at my school have to tutor math every day.
I think Ohio will be a much more “equitable” state when the only kids who can afford a music lesson are the kids whose parents can pay for one. It’s already happening. When they cut music and leave a (gutted) “music program” the parents who can afford to get private lessons, and then miraculously our kids get all the top slots! Merit!
Good job, Ohio reformers. Let’s make the already-yawning class divide in our communities larger. That’s always helpful.
Chiara, how much of a factor do you think race solidarity is in the withdrawal of white support for public schools in OH? I get the sense from many ex-urban whites here in CA that they’re freaked out by the legions of non-whites among us, especially Mexicans who constitute about 50% of public school kids now. I get the sense that many would love to redirect their tax money to vouchers for Christian or segregated charter schools. I feel like America is fracturing; that there’s no feeling of unity. E.D. Hirsch writes about how schools used to make a concerted effort to foster that sense of unity –to promote a sort of democracy-venerating civic religion –but that that’s ceased happening. I tend to think he’s right: that unity is not an automatic result of coexisting within the same borders, but that it must be cultivated. NCLB’s narrowing of the curriculum is no help, but I think the neglect started long before that.
I looked at the ODE agenda for November 11 and can’t find this item anywhere. Can someone direct me to it, please?
I would like to know as well. I have checked it out and it does not appear of the agenda.
I can’t find it either. I’m willing to bet that this is a “hoax” article!
I agree. I looked and didn’t see anything specifically addressing this. It could possibly be hidden in something, but I can’t see it at this point.
The Operating Standards subcommittee meets on Monday after the Graduation Requirements subcommittee meets (probably around 1:30). The Operating Standards subcommittee is going to be voting the “entire” package of revisions out of the subcommittee. The “final” vote on the revisions by the entire Board will take place at their December meeting on that Tuesday.
OEA intends to testify this coming Tuesday, November 11th around 10:30 AM in the public participation section of the meeting. Our focus will be on the negative impact the elimination of the existing language will have on educational opportunities available to the boys and girls. We are hoping that as many of the groups that represent the 8 types of positions listed in the existing Rule 5 will come and testify at that time.
BTW – I got the meeting information from a librarian friend of mine who has testified before the board on this matter – I am not part of the OEA. I am a concerned parent.
I was looking for the same thing! I can’t find this anywhere else online, so I’m beginning to think it may not be true. Thoughts?
What they are doing is similar to what an army does as it withdraws from a war zone during a war that can’t be won or after a war is over and the enemy defeated.
I think what this reveals is that the deformers are following a master plan to withdraw the United States from public education one step at a time, and they are following a timeline leading to a final goal when the public schools will be phased out of existence.
Every step of the process starting with the fraud behind a”A Nation at Risk” and escalation with the fraud behind NCLB is part of that timeline to end public education in the United States.
Someone made this decision in the 1980s, and now ever sign says it is obvious that they think it is final—that nothign and no one will stop them short of a total Civil War that would put the last US Civil War to shame.
I’m curious how many Ohio educators, retired educators, public workers and their family members voted for Kasich or didn’t show up to vote, last week.
I do not think Fitzgerald would have done a better job! This would have continued anyways regardless of the vote last week.
I am a retired Ohio educator with 33 years experience teaching art. I certainly did not vote for Kasich.
I dunno, but a majority of the entire electorate stayed home.
What about school psychologists?
RE: majority of electorate staying home, maybe that’s due, as many analysts have it, to Dems offering the same policies [i.e., nothing traditionally ‘Democratic’.]
Ohio seems headed down the same path as PA. Which, notably, kicked out Corbett!– who followed decades of public ed decline by doubling down on slashing ed budgets. Eventually the rubber meets the road… but then at least PA could point to a new industry (fracking) which was not being properly taxed to bring $ back into state public good.
Tell us Chiara, what of the once-lib ed bastions like Columbus? Are they too going down without ‘raging against the dying of the light’ ?
Oh great! They take away the funding and now they want to eliminate positions for music, art, PE, etc. Where do you think that most of the children start their love for the arts? Yes, in elementary school where they learn the basics and grow up to be artists or have it as a hobby. Our school systems is one of the best and way above the standards of California. Put our kids at risk to make these cuts is uncalled for. Leaving more teachers on the unemployment line is not the right answer! We voted you in to find the right answers such as cutting unnecessary spending and not taxing us to death.
Brilliant idea. Eliminate the classes that keep the kids interested in and excited about school. I’ve yet to do a single algebra problem nor have I ever been asked what year the Magna Carta was signed since I graduated high school 26 years ago. I have however participated in some form of PE, Music, or Media every single day over that same time frame.
So glad the insanity of America affects Republicans too. All their crazy ideas, cut everything, we don’t care about public schools. Thank goodness my children went thru school in the era of art, music, sports. They are going to ruin this generation with their ignorance. They have also deleted Thomas Jefferson in some text books. I’m waiting for the book bonfires next.
Same thing to happen in NYS in January.
Here is the bill. Read point #3. http://www.investined.org/pages/the-bill
Here is the blog where Cuomo says he wants this pushed through in January. http://www.investined.org/blog
Another step in the businessfication of education in the US.
Listen to Dr Yohuru Williams who spoke eloquently on “Creating the Schools our Children Deserve” yesterday at the Caucus of Working Educators First Annual Convention in Philadelphia. It is a two part series and it is excellent.
https://vimeo.com/111313297 (part 1)
https://vimeo.com/111319029 (part 2)
Ohio’s students benefit greatly from the services of gym, art , and music teachers as well as counselors. They provide vital services to our students which should not be eliminated or altered.
what is ODE agenda?
Makes it easier to claim online schools as “real” and thus deserving of state dollars.
Great idea! We can download Art, Music and Physical Eduation.
Kasich, the republican incumbent, took something like 64 of the 66 districts…and I believe Columbus was one of them…the approval rating for the President is in the crapper and people took it out on the other Democrats….
Well my choice for Governor was a pea brain who drove without a license for ten years
Please don’t! That’s a big part of education! I will literally cry right now. I’m scared for the future generations if people are deciding that technology and money are note import then children’s education, health, and mental state. I beg you not to.
Some mentioned to me that the final vote by the state board will have in December.
This is stupid why would you want to take the fun out of school these children need a place to go a learn and have fun they cannot be stuck in a class room all day
I was typing to fast in the previous post. A reliable source mentioned to me that the final vote on this issue will happen in December.
I did not vote for Kasich. He is an education disaster area. Although I do notice a lot of apathy among some of the younger teachers. I think many of the teachers are afraid to speak up politically for anything for fear of losing their jobs. I semi-retired at the end of the last school year. I have nothing to lose by speaking loudly.
This is the State Board of Education, not Kasich, and many or most of them are former educators. They also, have not passed this “reform” yet. Quit making this partisan. It is ridiculous and serves no purpose.
Look at the make up of the State Board and read their Bios – many are Kasich appointees and one has never attended public school or college (completely homeschooled!) – they are not all qualified and there is definitely a partisan piece to this – Kasich supports charter schools and wants to break up the unions.
I am an Ohio teacher. Kasich had no problems getting reelected. He hates the public schools, and I am downright scared what another 4 year term with him will bring to Ohio. He has made Ohio a very expensive place to live, has given millions of public dollars to charter schools, and cares nothing about the middle class people in Ohio.
Kasich wants to be President of the U.S. How horrific!
I live in Wisconsin. Kasich and Walker must sit next to each other at the ALEC conferences. Your post could have been written by me. You pretty much described Walker, the election, and my fear of what will come of public education in my Wisconsin. Sad world these days
It’s too bad Fitzgerald is a raving idiot. If he had just renewed his license…oh, and not cheated on his wife…he might have stood a chance.
I agree with you 100%
Kids need an education that teaches them how to read, perform crucial math skills, and think critically. How does painting and music help this? If parents want to teach their kids art music, hire a tutor. Why should taxpayers foot the bill for such specialized classes?
Carl,
I disagree. The arts are essential. Do you think schools should also be without nurses and libraries?
I guess you have not read the research that proves music improves mats scores. Do a little research. The arts are critical to reading, math, critical thinking.
The arts are as important to education as sports are, and it didn’t take long to find the research that validates this fact.
“The researchers found that the visual arts classes did have broad indirect benefits, even if they were not directly related to quantifiable performance in other subjects. ‘Students who study the arts seriously are taught to see better, to envision, to persist, to be playful and learn from mistakes, to make critical judgments and justify such judgments,’ the authors conclude.”
In addition, “A study by James S. Catterall, a professor of education at the University of California, Los Angeles, found that students who had more involvement in the arts in school and after school scored better on standardized tests.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/04/arts/design/04stud.html?_r=0
Or this, “Art is an irreplaceable way of understanding and expressing the world,” said Gioia. “There are some truths about life that can be expressed only as stories, or songs, or images. Art delights, instructs, consoles. It educates our emotions.”
This piece also explains how NCLB and the mania on standardized testing of the core subjects is killing the arts.
“For years, arts advocates like Gioia have been making similar pleas, stressing the intangible benefits of the arts at a time when many Americans are preoccupied with a market-driven culture of entertainment, and schools are consumed with meeting federal standards.”
http://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/arts_smarts
“Arts programs are invaluable to the future of our children, both here in the U.S. and around the world. According to The Education Fund, students involved in arts education are four times more likely to be recognized for academic achievement and three times more likely to be awarded for school attendance. Curricular and extracurricular art studies and activities help keep high-risk dropout students in school. And research shows that not only does studying the arts improve skills in math and reading, but it also promotes creativity, social development, personality adjustment, and students’ feeling of self-worth (NASBE Study Group on the The Lost Curriculum).”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lysa-heslov/children-mending-hearts-teaching-empathy_b_4340995.html
In conclusion, through the arts we raise children to be whole individuals, more sensitive critical thinkers, problem solvers, who value their humanity and others.
Through CCSS and the rank and yank testing insanity, we are teaching our children to be ruthless, self centered robots who are sociopaths, narcissists and psychopaths.
In other words the image of an oligarch like Bill Gates and the others who are dedicated to mold the world into their way of thinking—-at any cost.
Carl,
I also disagree…think about how art and music teach abstract mathmatical concepts…keeping rhythm and time and subdividing beats….interesting kids in architecture which is just as much art as math and science…teaching kids to be confident and outspoken…giving a creative outlet for energy is critically important
If you think that art and music do not teach critical thinking you are clearly lacking in this skill.
A well educated, cultured populace benefits us all. I prefer my neighbors kids not to be morons.
As an opera singer who had serious learning disabilities, I’ll have you know that music and art were the only thing that kept me in my Podunk school system. Hire a tutor? Most families can’t afford it. We are the only nation in the world that puts so little value on the creative tools provided to us that, yet, we are the ones that are effect up.
Art and music classes give kids the ability to express themselves in a non-violent manner.
Not to mention, instrumentalists exhibit a superior advantage when it comes to math and reading. In music you learn to sub-divide the beat (fractions), count measures(adding, multiplications), sight reading music, which leads to better comprehension. Also, in choir, you learn how to read numerous languages, some of which are nearly extinct were it not for music. It is detrimental to our society that art and music be taught in schools. It’s just another tool a confused child can use to help find themselves walking with their classmates on graduation day!
Carl,
I’m a librarian. My daily work is to teach children the importance of research, of well thought out acquisition and application of information so that they can learn to help themselves solve their own problems. So with that in mind…
I can’t remember the last time I used any math or science that I learned after the 7th grade. By your logic, maybe we shouldn’t require any education in those subjects after that grade level. Why should taxpayers be forced to foot the bill for such specialized classes as calculus and physics (both courses that I took in high school and enjoyed immensely but have found no practical use for since)? Can you see the logical flaw in your argument? No one uses all the education that they receive all the time, and that doesn’t mean that a complete education is wasteful or unimportant. Quite the contrary, our ability to think as well-rounded individuals, to draw on a variety of experience when making decisions, makes us more thoughtful, responsible, and productive members of our communities.
I would invite you to do some research. There is a large body of information available which verifies how and why the arts support academics. Our children of poverty do not have parents who could possibly hire any type of tutor or even provide group lessons. We cannot afford to keep these students in total poverty. For every child who does not graduate the taxpayers will be supporting that person all their life. Education is the the number one way out of poverty and the arts strongly support academics.
Carl… wow are you in the dark! Have you ever sat in a chair? Have you ever held a pen? Have you ever put on clothing? Have you ever bought a car? Do you own any non virtual books? There is not one part of our everyday experience that has not been touched by someone with art expertise. That book cover is designed and so is that chair. Those clothes and that chair start with a design. That pen was the result of a meeting between designers, experts in ergonomics, manufacturing professionals etc. That car… believe it or not it … may have started out with a clay maquette sculpture followed by a design protype on CAD. Oh yes… and then there are all the obvious… art museums, public art etc… I could go on and on about how the arts and the creative process are part of the everyday human experience. Hopefully you are starting to GET IT.
Carl, you are part of the problem. Do you need a personal tutor or trainer for your physical activities? If so I am for hire. Wait until you get the bill.
That is a comment by someone who clearly doesn’t understand how the human brain works. Did you know kids who are proficient with an instrument before the age of 10 have higher grades when they leave education, for example? If you churn out a load of mathematicians you’re going to end up with engineers with nothing to build as an example.
The arts are the only subject areas where Blooms Taxonomy highest levels of thinking (creation!!) are regularly used. The arts teach discipline, problem solving, and creative thinking. The arts constantly use other subject areas in their curriculum. Science and math are two key areas taught in art daily. Color theory, geometry, and basic measuring skills. Last year, I was a middle school art teacher and was appalled at how few students could use a ruler!! Regardless, I took time to reteach and reinforce that skill, a skill that these students will no doubt use in their future. Please try and tell me they won’t. Until you understand a subject matter, perhaps you should avoid talking about it.
Carl,
I, too, disagree. Of what value is an education that only prepares our students to sit at a desk, crunch numbers, and be “thinking machines.” We moved away from an education designed solely to meet the needs of the government over a century ago, because, in order for education and this nation to be successful, it needed to educate the whole child. Moving back to a more “civic” oriented education is just that–a backward step for this country.
Also, the phrase “If parents want to teach their kids art music, hire a tutor” predicates that parents have money enough to pay for the extras. The quality of education available to children should not be based on the income of their parents. Every child deserves equal access to a COMPLETE education, regardless of their socioeconomic background. That is how this country will move forward–not by narrowing the curriculum, but by supporting the needs of the neediest.
Just curious- do you feel the same way about sports? Bet I know the answer…
Carl, apparently you did not completely read the article. It is not just painting and music.
“The Board will vote on whether to eliminate “specialist” positions, that include elementary schools arts teachers, elementary school music teachers, elementary school physical education teachers, school nurses, school library media specialists, school counselors, and school social workers.”
I cannot imagine any school without a librarian much less the exposure the students are given to art and music through that hour a week.
Were you home schooled by someone who did not understand the need for a well rounded educational experience? I really feel sorry for you if that was teh case.
Carl,
Respectfully, Music teaches math, art teaches project based problem solving, P.E. teaches lifelong healthcare so that we all aren’t stuck paying for skyrocketing cost of adolescent diabetes. These are not “specialized” classes – anymore than algebra or A.P. English are “specialized” classes. Formative education should NEVER be about doing the minimum. Education is a body of practices which are vital to the whole, once you start cutting off arms and legs you are crippling our future.
The ONLY reason republicans want to CUT these things is simple – they could give two shits about poor people – THEY can hire tutors, they can send kids to the best private schools. Don’t bitch about high crime rates when we leave the masses stupid and without any chance to succeed.
Further the board is only interested in doing this so that they can add to their already bloated administrative costs. Cut more board members and hire more teachers. Give a shit about our future!
-Sonya
Your an asshole. You obviously don’t have any kids. All the things that they are trying to get rid of.. Kids need. They need an outlet.. To be able to express themselves. It wouldn’t be any great composers or artist if the schools didn’t provide these things. When more kids start lashing out then what?! You had these things when you were a child I’m sure. Why short these kids?
Given that they (those who change curriculums) have changed the history books, rewriting them to their liking; and have refused to accept science and scientists, the kids will just continue to receive a devalued education, and be ill prepared to succeed.
Carl — You asked how does painting and music help students learn reading and math skills and to think critically. There are many answers to your question in this report. Learning to read and write is inextricably linked to art and music. Did you know that singing engages both sides of the brain and increases memory, which is a crucial component of learning? Singing also increases vocabulary at a rate much faster than writing down words and definitions. When children sing, it helps develop articulation, breath control, and self control. Music is also a mathematical expression. Beats, timing, musical theory is all based on math. When children produce music as a group, they learn cooperation and collaboration, and they get to experience the wonderful results immediately. For more challenging music pieces learned, children will experience succeeding at complex tasks. This builds confidence and self esteem. Children who are confident and self-assured are successful learners.
Click to access critical-evidence.pdf
Carl, there is a strong connection between music and math. A tremendous number of scientists are also artists or musicians. Exercise promotes blood flow to the brain and provides needed breaks for the brain to move information from short-term memory to long-term memory. Art promotes creativity and problem solving, music promotes collaboration and observation skills. There is a large body of data on the connection of art, music, and exercise to better learning and reasoning skills. Unfortunately our state government is as ignorant of it as you apparently are.
You can also search peer reviewed journals that show how art and music help children learn math.
You need to do more research Carl. Music has been proven to help students with critical and higher level thinking. I hope they leave our kids alone and let the music continue!
He’s a troll!
Do not feed the troll.
ignore the troll.
It’s proven that music and art helps the brain process things like patterns and build cognitive thinking skills. What good is learning maths and sciences without practical application?
Personally, I have learned a lot about thermodynamics and chemistry as a ceramics artist. To me, art is an emotional response to qualitative observations based on inference.
It hasn’t happened, yet. Let the Board of Education know how you feel!
yes!!!!
These are all necessary to provide an appropriate and well-rounded elementary education. Ohio would be doing a tremendous disservice to children (and to the future of the state) to eliminate the requirement for these specialists and narrow the curriculum.
I’m from Ohio as well and have 2 children in public school and honestly my distain for my local public school district has been growing exponentially in recent years….when a student brings a gun to a school and the school fails to follow protocol and procedure….when special ed geometry class has a self confessed “long term substitute, and math is not her strong suit” continually tells the class that they are her worst class, nothing but troublemakers, talks about them to her other classes, refuses to give them books, tells them that she’s going to fail them all for attitude, doesn’t follow their IEPs (heck doesn’t even read them til the end of the first quarter) there is a major problem…if the school continues to employ that teacher in that role then obviously they don’t really need the levy they were pushing, because the missmanagement of funds is apparent…. and trust me that’s saying a lot coming from me when I’m a child of a retired public school teacher and my stepmother is also in public education…I work a skilled trade union job, believe it’s my civic duty to vote at every election and lean very democratic….and I don’t feel bad that I voted for Kasich. After watching my own children’s public education, I think it’s about time that someone hold some of the Public school districts feet to the fire to show some results. It’s sad that we’re facing a cut in the arts….it should have been ineffective and underperforming administrators and teachers first…but *shrug* teacher’s and administrators unions prevent that.
Drew
Why didn’t you hold Kasich accountable?
For that one specific teacher and administrator….I hold the district and the unions accountable that they are still there in those positions…currently complaints are with the superintendant, school board, and ODE (for the teacher’s failure to follow an IEP, not to mention she’s assigned the yearly review and rewriting of several IEPs)
Why should I hold the governor responsible for stating clearly that funding woud be determined by performance of the districts….
America’s students are ranked something like 32nd out of all first world countries, knowlege wise…..obviously the current educational system is broken and has been that way for a while now…way more messed up than one state governor could have made it in the past 4 years.
Ohio is currently 47th in overall recovery from the recession, nationwide. I am pretty sure you should hold the Governor responsible. It is his job.
Drew, thank you for having a brain.
C.pesa,
I’ll gladly hold the governor responsible for the economy….but you have to hold the current educational system and teachers responsible for the US students ranking so low worldwide….
Drew,
What OECD international ranking are you talking about—the overall average that makes the U.S. schools look so bad, or the averages broken down by the six socioeconomic levels that either beats every OECD nation or comes really close?
The corporate driven fake public education reformers only report the overall average. They never mention the facts that reveal the truth.
I suggest you update and educate yourself and read the evaluation of the PISA test that came out of Stanford in January 2013 and was vetted by the Economic Policy Institute.
“This re-estimate would also improve the U.S. place in the international ranking of all OECD countries, bringing the U.S. average score to sixth in reading and 13th in math. Conventional ranking reports based on PISA, which make no adjustments for social class composition or for sampling errors, and which rank countries irrespective of whether score differences are large enough to be meaningful, report that the U.S. average score is 14th in reading and 25th in math.”
http://www.epi.org/publication/us-student-performance-testing/
The OECD ranks 66 countries.
6th in reading means the top 9% with 60 countries below the United States.
13th in Math means the top 20% with 53 countries below the United States
How did the overall average come out so bad? The fast answer is the childhood poverty rate in the U.S. is the highest among all of the OECD countries by a very wide margin.
“Because in every country, students at the bottom of the social class distribution perform worse than students higher in that distribution, U.S. average performance appears to be relatively low partly because we have so many more test takers from the bottom of the social class distribution.”
“A sampling error in the U.S. administration of the most recent international (PISA) test resulted in students from the most disadvantaged schools being over-represented in the overall U.S. test-taker sample. This error further depressed the reported average U.S. test score.”
Thanks for the facts, but do not imagine someone as ignorant as Drew’s comments show him to be, will not be reasoned with.
Susan,
I’ve learned that ignorance rules some people totally and that no matter how much reliable evidence or data is used in a debate, that some of these ignorant individuals will never change their minds.
Lincoln knew what he was talking about when he said, “You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.”
To make sure most people do not end up fooled, we can not let even one individual hog the podium without a data based rebuttal, because then someone else might go away fooled—and become another person who is fooled all the time.
Not responding might lead to the same results as these one sided so-called debates where only the corporate Pub-Ed supporters show up with their unsupportable claims, and the resistance, with all their data proving those claims are lies and misleading, is not allowed in the building.
Isn’t that what President Reagan and the 1st Bush wanted when they killed off The Fairness Doctrine claiming it violated the 1st Amendment?
How can wanting honesty in a public debate violate the 1st Amendment—both sides still get to have their say, there is no censorship, but the side without the data to support their claims might lose? What does that tell us about Reagan and Bush—did they represent a house of cards built on a foundation of lies?
How can I disagree with such a reasoned argument.
You go for it, Lloyd, with your eyes wide open, at least; knowing that you can never open Drew’s or Alan’s eyes to the truth, but that you cannot let their ignorance stand as truth here in this place, where TRUTH is the mission.
I’ve learned that some people think opinions are data and anything they claim is data just because they thought it—I wonder if they even know what data is and that primary source data—for instance, data from the Census, the FBI or CDC—is the best data to use to validate a claim.
The second best data is probably from sample surveys on topics from Gallup, Rasmussen, the Pew Research Center or but these data gathering sites come with a higher risk of error, because the smaller the data sample, the higher the risk of error
Opinions, claims and theories that have little or no data to support them have the most risk of error.
Another for instance, global warming and climate change. NASA is an agency that gathers data through scientific methods, and I think the odds favor that their data trumps the data from a think thank supported by the Koch brothers who are the primary source of funding for most of the data that is used to deny global warming is caused by carbon dioxide.
NASA says, “Ninety-seven percent of climate scientists agree that climate-warming trends over the past century are very likely due to human activities, and most of the leading scientific organizations worldwide have issued public statements endorsing this position.”
http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/
I am not an expert on data. I do know what happens to me, and to hundreds of teachers like me. Now , 16 years later, I see that it was a plan.
It is what it is…observable reality. I have no need to prove anything. The enormity of the ignorance about what happened to us, to the teachers, is the result of the media’s complicity. This is the scandal of the century. What has happened to the teachers by lawless, failed human beings unaccountable to no one.
Her principal set her up to be raped, Lloyd… and people like Anne and drew are hacking away as if they know something.
http://bravery-bullies-blowhards.com
This is what I know ended public education
http://www.speakingasateacher.com/SPEAKING_AS_A_TEACHER/No_Constitutional_Rights-_A_hidden_scandal_of_National_Proportion.html
and just as our legislature cannot pass a single piece of legislation that is worthwhile, the administrators who run the schools are actively undermining the schools and blaming the teachers and it works.
Sigh.
Lloyd,
Yes I was talking about the OECD global rankings, from an article I read last December. So yes I misspoke the numbers, I was trying to recall..it should have been 31st in math (I believe I said 34 here, sorry)…
http://www.businessinsider.com/pisa-rankings-2013-12
I’ve no need to read a Stanford correction of the PISA 2009 test either since the PISA 2012 test is more current. I suggest you update and educate yourself on the results of the current test….unless of course you need to wait for the whitewashed and re-evaluated version from Stanford…
http://www.oecd.org/newsroom/Asian-countries-top-OECD-s-latest-PISA-survey-on-state-of-global-education.htm
http://www.oecd.org/pisa/keyfindings/pisa-2012-results.htm
Drew,
May I suggest that you read my book “Reign of Error”? The international rankings are worthless as predictors of the future. Japan is now in a sustained recession despite high scores. Our scores on these tests have never been high, and we are the most powerful nation in the world. Read Yong Zhao’s latest book. High scores do not translate into a good economic future. They are meaningless.
“unless of course you need to wait for the whitewashed and re-evaluated version from Stanford”
Your response indicated you have a closed mind and will only accept the overall average score without taking into account the differences between the six socioeconomic groups that the PISA also breaks down but doesn’t end up being reported in the media that always focuses on the overall average that also ignored the fact that the childhood poverty rate in the Untied States is the highest among all OECD nations.
Prove the Stanford breakdown of the PISA was whitewashed—that it isn’t true that when we compare socioeconomic groups to their counterparts in other counties, the United States continues to be close to or better than the other countries in almost every socioeconomic group but because of the much larger ratio of children living in poverty in the U.S., that becomes an anchor that results in a much lower average for the United States.
I suspect the sources you want to believe are cherry picking the numbers so they make the U.S. public schools look bad.
What happens when someone looks at all the data instead of cherry picking it?
“The main theme in (this post) is that we shouldn’t confuse policy with culture, and with demographic factors.
“For instance, education scholars have known for decades that the home environment of the kids and the education levels of the parents are very important for student outcomes. We also know that immigrant kids have a more difficult time at school, in part because they don’t know the language.”
http://super-economy.blogspot.com/2010/12/amazing-truth-about-pisa-scores-usa.html
Susan,
Ignorant? Really?… Because I expect teachers and school districts to be held accountable for the quality of education and treatment of students that they are providing? Because I’m to the point of frustration that I now believe that the only way that we can seem to get it across to our public school districts and teachers that we’re serious about education is by punishing the underperformers financially? I agree that it’s sad that it’s come to that but it seems like the only tool left in the box…
Or is it because I said I was a skilled trades worker… in either case, how dare you. You don’t know me or my background to personally insult and attack me…taking it to that level only highlights your own ignorance..
For the record, I chose welding and being an ironworker after obtaining my engineering degree (granted it was only Magna Cum Laude and as a member of Chi Alpha Epsilon, Episilon Pi Tau, and Phi Beta Kappa )because I like being in the field and working with my hands, the intermingling of art and math and science to create the infrastructure that you probably take for granted, and the confidence and pride of knowing that that bridge that you drive over daily was erected correctly and safely…or that when the twin towers fell, as an Ironworker, I had a skill and a duty to travel there and help remove the beams that my brethren spent years putting up. I myself play several instruments, and practice several forms of art and do believe it to be an essential part of life, and pass it on to my children as well because I believe it is essential to life to never stop learning and a duty for parents to teach our children ourselves as well….because schools are not a glorified babysitter for parents to just dump our children for 12 years….
However, I am trusting the school with a major part of my child’s development….I expect that trust not to be violated. If it were a sitter, I would have the option to fire it for violating that trust and underperforming..With the public school, I’m paying for it with my taxes (as is every other homeowner in the district), I have every right to expect it to perform because I don’t get the option to fire it, and the teachers within it are even more protected by their unions…
Lloyd,
Did respond to your comment with a few links to the 2012 PISA and articles pertinent to that….rather than a 2013 retelling of the 2009 version….
Funny how that is still in moderation and a post made afterward isn’t…
Drew,
“Did respond to your comment with a few links to the 2012 PISA and articles pertinent to that….rather than a 2013 retelling of the 2009 version….”
I have no idea what your response was but do you really think that the results would be all that different if Stanford and/or the Economic Policy Institute broke the results down the same way?
That study out of Stanford isn’t the only one that dissected the results of the OECD’s international PISA test.
Another study revealed that the United States beat every country in the world when students who live in poverty are compared to simliar student ratios in schools around the world.
Even compared to Finland or Canada, the United States was number one when the ratio of students, who live in poverty, in schools was equal.
For instance, a school in the US with a student poverty ratio of 50% compared to similar schools in other countries. In fact, the United States has schools with student poverty ratios of more than 70%—I taught in schools like that for thirty years—and to find comparable schools, the author of the study had to turn to Mexico and Turkey where the U.S., once again, was #1, because it is difficult to find schools in most OECD countries that have poverty ratios that high.
The conclusion is easy to make: The United States does a better job teaching children who live in poverty than any other country in the world and for students who live in higher socioeconomic groups, they either hold their own or the lower score is insignificant compared to similar OECD nations.
Lloyd,
I’m unsure as to why it’s still pending moderation, I find it curious.
I think there’s a big difference between current data, old data, and old data that’s been “adjusted”.
The links were primarily, directly from the OECD.
From one that was not:
The United States, meanwhile, ranks below the OECD average in every category.
The results from the 2012 Program for International Student Assessment (PISA), which are being released on Tuesday, show that teenagers in the U.S. slipped from 25th to 31st in math since 2009; from 20th to 24th in science; and from 11th to 21st in reading, according to the National Center for Education Statistics, which gathers and analyzes the data in the U.S.
Drew, if you are correct, then you have helped prove what caused the decline—it was legislation from the U.S. Congress and policy from the DOE.
Starting in the early 1990s, according to another standardized test—the NAEP administered in the US–students demonstrated steady and consistant gains in every racial group and academic area tested. In fact, the scores for whites went from 2% advanced to 11% in Math—an improvement of more than 500%. For Blacks, in 1992, not one student scored advanced in math, but by 2011, 2% were ranked advanced, and proficient went from 2% in 1992 to 12% in 2011—a 600% improvement.
The first PISA test was administered in 2000—about a decade later.
The NAEP has followed two generations of U.S. students K – 12. The PISA has only followed one generation. I think it is arguable that the 1990s marked a decade of improvement in U.S. public education where teachers improved their teaching skills through better training collaboration among peers.
Now, you allege from the 2012 PISA results that the US is falling behind when compared to other OECD countries that mostly have not implemented a VAM method of using standardized tests to rank and yank teachers and close public schools.
In fact, many of the OECD countries that you claim the U.S. is falling behind, instead, invested in improving teacher quality by supporting collaboration and improved training and follow up support, while in the U.S. a fascist regime of testing came out of NCLB, RTTT and CCSS.
In conclusion, if you are correct about the U.S. falling behind, according to the alleged results of the 2012 PISA test, then you have proven beyond a doubt that NCLB, RTTT and CCSS are responsible for this decline, and the country should be following the example of other OECD countries, for instance, Finland, and return to supporting the improvement of teacher training and collaboration among teachers instead of ranking and yanking teachers and closing public schools.
Drew believes it is those bad teachers, and that his kid hs the right to have good ones… Broad, Koch, Walton and Gates agree…they want hi to have a choice to choose their teachers in their charter schools.
Diane,
With all due respect I am not using the test scores to predict the future or as an indicator to economic performance…
Simply as an indicator of the success of our educational system….and the strengths and weaknesses of our students as far as being able to apply that knowlege to real life situations…
It’s a test given to randomly selected students from randomly selected schools globally, at the same age….
So ideally, if saying our children’s education is important to us they should be gettimg th same quality of education regardless of socio-economic divisions…
And to claim that best country in the world title our kids should be performing better….
Because we aren’t it just indicates to me that somewhere our education system is failing…and we owe it to them to fix it. I think that much of the blame is to be put on administrators but partially on those teachers that hide behind the union for school building choices and or to just coast along as they near retirement…
The only tie to economics I personally look on is the use of economics to incite change in a broken system where boards and administrations are slow to act…ie. if you want more money, show us better performance or some measureable form of improvement…or face cuts (and I believe it should be underperforming personel first, and even sports programs before the arts)
Susan,
No, that’s where you are wrong.
I believe that every student has the right to good teachers. When a teacher or administrator obviously doesn’t care about the students that we entust to them, or are just phoning it in until retirement, or blatantly and willfully ignore student’s IEPs….they should not be able to hide behind a union to protect their underperformance. There needs to be a way to replace them with someone who will do right by our students…
I’m fully in favor of paying quality, performing teachers what they’re worth….and I never said I was in favor of charter schools (I’m not)….in fact I’m more of the mindset that the whole educational system needs to be overhauled much like Finland or was it Scandinavia (whichever the minister of education came over from last year and gave a series of talks) where we put more value on teachers and are therefore more selective on who we actually allow to be teachers and pay them accordingly…
If I’m reading Drew correctly here, then I would agree. Teacher training and support should be the focus and not CCSS rank and yank testing that punishes teachers because they did not receive adequate training and support.
In almost every country that ranks high on the international PISA tests, teachers go through a year long residencies simliar to the urban residency teacher training programs in the United States that turn out only a few hundred a year where teachers spend a full school year in a master teacher’s classroom and receive follow up support for a year or more after starting teaching in their own classroom.
In 1975-76, I went through a year-long, full-time, paid (not much pay but better than nothing) program with a master teacher in her 5th grade classroom in a school with a 70%+ childhood poverty rate. For more than forty years, I though all teachers had simliar training until I read:
http://www.amazon.com/Teacher-Wars-Americas-Embattled-Profession-ebook/dp/B00IWTSK7Q/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&sr=&qid=
and discovered that year-long residency teacher training programs in the United
States are not the norm as they are in—for instance—-Finland, Singapore, and in Shanghai, China. Instead, teacher training is moving away from this model with the G. W. Bush and Obama administrations focus and support on programs like Teach for America (TFA) that only offer five weeks of summer training workshops for their recruits and little or no actual experience in classrooms.
In Goldstein’s book, she points out the almost 4-year, 50% attrition rate of teachers who go through traditional training programs compared to 66%+ for TFA recruits but only 4% for teachers who went through the year long residency, and these teachers had the highest evaluations from principals when compared to the other two teacher training pathways.
Instead of bashing the public schools and demanding that teachers lose all of their due process job protections, the focus should be on bashing anyone who doesn’t support a national teacher training program that is a full time, year long residency with a master teacher.
TFA should be eliminated immediately and all teacher training programs should be transitioned into year long residencies the same as the other high ranking OECD nations use to train and support teachers.
In France, for another instance, even teachers in early childhood education programs msut go through a year long mentored residency before they are allowed to work with that age group between age 2 to 5, and those teachers work within the French public schools and not for a private sector, for profit corporate run Charter.
How do you insert a photo at this site???
I don’t know how to insert a photo into a comment. For a post yes, but for a You Tube video or a book on Amazon, all you have to is copy and paste the html address into the comment.
Hmmm!
I agree about residency. But I am astonished that teachers do not have a year of this. I did.I was a ‘student teacher’ at 2 schools, in my senior year. I taught alongside the teacher, and observed management in 2 very different environments. It is crucial… but then so is a clear understanding of the objectives for learning, (which is NOT a CORE CURRICULA0 but the list of expected outcomes for the age group in that content area.
LWBA: Learner Will Be able to:….
I chose the lessons and created the materials to motivate and to suit the learners in that room–my interests and knowledge base informed my choices for reading and writing activities.
Lloyd,
Yes that’s pretty much what I’m getting at. No I don’t believe that all the protections a union provides should be yanked. However I also don’t believe that a teacher should be able to game the system and be able to hide behind those protections if their hearts really aren’t in their profession. And lets face it we all know there are teachers out there that don’t belong teaching (be it because it was their fall back carreer plan, or becuse they could get a degree and have their student loans forgiven depending on where they agree to teach, etc)….
I’m all for better training and support and pay…totally overhauling the system where it puts students, and their ability to compete in an increasingly globalized enviroment…
As you’ve pointed out our government hasn’t made the best choices in the past when it comes to education reform, and has become overly bloated….so how best do the people affect change? Obviously, finances are a major motivational factor…so by threatening funding perhaps change can be obtained….
Unfortunately, as we’ve seen in the past, the districts will make poor choices on what to fund and what to cut…the people need to be more involved in what we expect….
All I was saying is rather than blaming the governor of Ohio, I’d rather see someone who’s stated his expectations and tied it to funding rather than just throwing money into a broken system….
From the ages of 6 to 15 we spend an average of $115, 000US per student (at least we’re 5th in the amount of money spent) … (that’s from the 2012 PISA breakdown as well……I’m guessing our school districts could be smarter on how to spend that…
You said, “I also don’t believe that a teacher should be able to game the system and be able to hide behind those protections if their hearts really aren’t in their profession.”
There are incompetent people in every profession—in fact, many administrators at the site and district level in educatoin fit this bill because they fled the classroom to leadership to escape the children who would eat them alive if they couldn’t teach and/r manage a class—I’ve seen that happen too. Those teachers never last long, because the kids drive them out of the profession.
But are incompetent teachers who hang on and refuse to leave so bad that they are causing kids not to learn?
I DON’T think so!!!!!!
This is an issue that was manufactured. The truth is that most teachers who can’t teach or manage their students leave in the first five years and never return to education. I saw this happen too. New teachers who couldn’t manage didn’t stick around, because the key is classroom management—not the ability to each incredible lessons. Teaching incredible lessons can be learned when teachers are allowed work together in teams and observations are designed not to rank and yank but to guide teachers to improve.
There have been NO studies in the United States to determine exactly how many incompetent teachers “hang on”—-NONE.
In the UK, there was a study and the number they came up with was about 7%.
In the Vergara trial, the so-called expert witnesses for the plaintiffs guessed form years of observations that 1% to 3% of teachers were incompetent, and the judge used this guesstimate to rule in favor of the billionaire who funded that case to end teacher due process rights.
The biggest nubmer I have ever seen tossed out by anyone from the corporate funded fake education reform movement is 10%—and this was a number that was pulled out of a hat with no reputable data to support it. Just another guess.
If 1%, 3%, 7% or even 10% of public school teachers were incompetent, how does that justify punishing ever teacher by taking away their DUE PROCESS job protection?
In fact, in California if the 1% to 3% guesstimate tossed out during the Vergara trial was accurate, there are actually more schools in California than there would be incompetent teachers meaning schools without even one incompetent teacher and the rest spread so thin it is ridiculous to claim they would wreck a students future, because motivated students learn no matter what.
The real problem is poverty, supportive parents, dysfunctional families, and a culture that supports witch hunts for teachers instead of offering the support teachers NEED to improve.
Hollywood films depict the kind of teacher you think exists out there as the sort who reads a newspaper while their students go while. I ran into a few teachers like that—-they were substitutes, not professional classroom teachers.
Then there the fact that a few studies have pointed out that at least a third of the teachers suffer from PTSD because of the way they are treated by abusive and dysfunctional children, parents and dictatorial incompetent administrators who bent over to kiss the ass of corporate reformers.
Lloyd,
Unfortunately, in our daughter’s case, we’ve encountered several of these teachers. One said she did not have to comply with an IEP’s accomidations because to quote her “I’m retiring at the end of the year, and by the time the union would let the state do anything about it, I’d be done”….this was near the beginning of the school year.
Another, that when she changed schools (from one public to another in the same district) that did not want to follow the IEP because he never agreed to it and felt it was too involved, and was due to be rewritten mid November (classes start end of August)
She has had several others that are “long term substitutes” where they don’t have access to the student’s IEPs for the first 2 weeks and then often don’t bother to read them until they are asked if they know she had one and if they are following it….
Last year it was her spanish teacher, who used his seniority in the district to displace the teacher she had (and was doing well with)(who actually cared for her students, and tutored after school on her own time, and engaged her students)…because it was a newer and better building closer to his new house….he spent the remainder of the year showing videos (often unrelated to the subject)… and she failed that second semester…it’s not surprising that he is no longer teaching there…
The latest one is a real piece of work and I’ve wrote about her at length already here….lately, she’s been removing and penalizing a student in the special ed geometry class for being disruptive (he has tourette’s, with a very mild vocal tic….and it’s documented)..all of the other students say that they are not bothered by it…. several parents, students, and teachers have complained, and we were told by the vice principal/ academic dean that he can’t just remove her from the class because of the way the teacher’s union works….
These are the types that I’m talking about making it harder to hide behind protections….maybe it’s just a symptom of this particular district in ohio….after all they were involved in the school report card fixing scandal that took place recently…
What you describe happens.
But put it in context. Don’t judge the entire system based on your own individual experiences. There are almost 4 million teachers working out of about 100,000 schools in close to 16,000 school districts teaching 49 million children and you judge them all based on the few teachers you described.
Do you think these few examples—I think I counted four not counting the subs—will destroy your child’s future? From K to 12, the average child in the U.S. will have 30 to 50 different teachers.
As for the “long term substitutes”, have you looked at the requirements for working as a sub in your state whatever state that is? Some states only require a high school GED for someone to substitute teach. California only requires 90 college units from any major.
If you expect quality instruction from a substitute, you will usually be disappointed. Good substitutes exist, but due to a shortage of subs in most states, it is difficult to find that many who are good at what they do. Districts need a warm body in front of that class who may be here today and gone tomorrow.
I’ll tell you what’s more important. Reading is more important. If your child reads everyday outside of school for a half hour or more for entertainment and enjoys reading, she will be college ready by the time she hits 17/18. If she missed a few vital classes in HS, then she can take them during her first two years in college.
And if a child doesn’t enjoy reading and doesn’t read outside of school, that is the parents responsibility for letting it happen. Few if any teachers can fix that.
For instance, we turned off our TV six days a week and we drove our daughter, starting about age three to the library every week where she checked out the maximum number of books allowed. To fill her free time at home, she read books, lots of books. Hundreds of books. Teachers are not responsible for what a child does after that child leaves their classroom.
The sad thing is that the evil politicians are putting excellent teachers through horrible daily stress and misery to try and eliminate teaching as a career status profession. How sad…I don’t even think they care about getting bad teachers…They want to put an end to teaching as a profession – period. Even though I think privatization is the end goal, the evil politicians are driving the excellent teachers and the future excellent teachers out.
What will they be left with in ten years? A young person can invest a lot less money in their education and make a much bigger salary than my profession – with a lot less stress. As I’ve said many times before, our children are the ones who have to pay the huge price due to corporate greed.
The teacher needs to go not the system. There are other solutions that make more sense but cutting activity classes is one of them. If we do this let’s just go back to the one room school house.
Oh I agree the teacher needs to go…but the system protects the teacher’s job and allows for her behavior to continue. When I filed the initial complaint with the academic dean at the school, he said that he would talk to her as he had heard the exact same complaints from other parents, students, and teachers….but he couldn’t outright fire her because of the teacher’s union….
Just like the principal needs to go for not following protocol and going into lockdown,about a month ago, when a student brought a handgun to the school and was carrying it around in his pocket….instead she chose to deal with it quietly…
At least here in Toledo the system is broken and needs to be fixed….perhaps only extreme measures and treatening funding will wake the school board up to finally do something right.
Might as well eliminate the nurses at hospitals as well.
They’re also just a waste of money.
And while we are at it, we should VAM the surgeons and other doctors. If any of their patients die (or even fail to make significant progress) so should their career.
We need to start getting serious in this country.
It’s been all fun and games for far too long.
Drew makes lots of sense. Unions cause the keeping of terrible teachers. I don’t care if our kids cant draw, they can’t write, or talk or do simple math in some schools.
Now they say that this has been pulled from the agenda.
Maybe you don’t care but teachers do.
Poor administrators cause poor teachers to be kept on the job, not unions, because the union isn’t their employer.
If an administrator can’t assemble enough evidence that a teacher is doing a poor job how good a job is that administrator doing?
Please toss that tired, discredited meme into the trash. Unions don’t keep poor teachers, school districts do – by choice and by design.
Pickerington Local School District (near Columbus Ohio) did this already…..4 years ago! They eliminated K-6 Art, Music, P.E., Library and Technology; supposedly bc our levy failed. (The superintendent and school board orchestrated its failure so they could institute their own political agenda.) Then they created the “Global Integration Team” to teach Common Core Curriculum through our disciplines. I was no longer a music teacher; there was no music curriculum. I taught math, reading, science, and social studies through music. And to my knowledge*, this is still in place today. (*Idk for sure; I retired after one year of this garbage; now I’m happily involved in the music department of a local parochial school.)
For the love of all things logical & good, please do not eliminate our specials teachers. They are a necessary part of our schools. The fact that this is even an option is a shameful & sad occurrence. Please enrich our children with the arts.
Without this curriculum and opportunity for our elementary school children, what do they have ?? In todays age of technology they will end up as couch potatoes sitting in front of a video game or computer. My youngest lives in an apartment with his father who works all day and his brothers will not take him to the park or outside if they have “other things to do”. The ONLY exercise he gets is at school. He LOVES to read and do art work. School nurses ARE needed. This CANNOT be passed !!!
On November 10 at 1:45pm, the Ohio State Board of Education will vote on some revision to the school code 3301-35-05 rules 4 and 5.
A concise overview of the proposed change:
http://www.slideshare.net/mobile/fullscreen/SusanYutzey/stand-up-for-your-child-presentation-41081030/6
DETAILS
The Operating Standards Committee Meeting— will present a Final Review to the Full Board and Vote.
Agenda (see page 2 of 5)
http://education.ohio.gov/getattachment/State-Board/State-Board-Meetings/State-Board-Meetings-for-2013-1/Nov-2014-Time-Schedule.pdf.aspx
Final Presentation to Board ( see pages 39-40)
http://education.ohio.gov/getattachment/State-Board/Committees/Operating-Standards-Committee/Audience-Operating-Standards-Materials-November-2014.pdf.aspx
Actual Code 3301-35-05 rules 4 and 5:
http://codes.ohio.gov/oac/3301-35-05
I am disappointed. Please fact check. This issue was pulled from the board agenda some time ago (you can look online for yourself, in fact). You’ve whipped people into a frenzy over something that is not going to be voted on, and you’ve made me question the credibility of many whom I’d once trusted as thoughtful.
I see that the issue is not listed on the agenda. Does that ensure that it is a non issue? Did something happen to remove it permanently? If they are still considering making these changes anytime then the issue still exists.
I suppose anything is possible. The board could move to close all non-charter schools in the state. That’s possible, and just as unlikely.
Regardless, it makes people look stupid when they write letters to leaders, telling them not to vote on something that is not on the agenda. It makes me angry to see voter credibility ruined because of this.
If you are suggesting that the measure will magically be added in the minutes before the meeting, that is against the law.
This is sad… and it will inevitably lead to the elimination of these programs. Most districts today are strapped for funds. After six years of fiscal restraint they have a backlog of deferred maintenance; they have teachers who have made concessions in wages and benefits to help balance the budgets; because of budget cuts they have higher class sizes and fewer electives; and to balance budgets they only provide those support services that are mandated. On top of these rollbacks in staffing levels and wages and benefits, schools districts are required to upgrade their technology infrastructure to administer tests to youngsters that will be used to “prove” they are failing to provide a “quality education”. When and if State Boards roll back their staffing requirements, I would expect the financially strapped districts– which are, sadly, in the majority in this country— to shed non-mandated staff in order to balance their budgets. Parents, school board members, and administrators like my colleagues and me who fought to get these programs funded in districts across the country look on in dismay as “reform” minded State boards gut the rich programs we instituted only two or three decades ago. One of the scariest results of this past election is that fiscally conservative “reform minded” conservatives got elected governor… even in MA and MD! I shudder to think that other states will follow OH’s lead….
Oh, so basically if a district is not forced to do something, they won’t? I guess it’s time to vote for a new superintendent, then.
The state has zero influence on those things – they merely removed a requirement. It’s not the state that guts a program, it’s your LOCAL school district, funded by YOUR property tax. If your district is shedding non-mandated positions against your wishes, vote with your wallet. Vote for, not against, property tax increases, and make sure that the superintendent that you voted for is doing their job according to your wishes. Let’s keep the state out of this discussion. The decisions are made at the local level. If the districts have no willpower or taxpayer support for such programs, no wonder that they’ll drop them as soon as there’s no requirement. Yet you have, as a taxpayer, so much more power at the local level to change things.
Yes, the local taxpayers have power IF their district has the resources to provide programs and IF their locally elected Board is willing to seek those resources and IF the voters support the board. I believe the state boards have a responsibility to set minimum standards for local boards to meet and the state legislatures have a responsibility to make certain that there are sufficient funds to meet those standards and to ensure that every child in the state has the same opportunities as every other child in the state.
Is saving money worth the loss of a child’s full education? No I say, those who are behind this, I’m sure, had the previlege of all of what you are wanting to do away with, and I’m sure enjoyed as a child. Quit looking at saving a penny and look at the children who is our future. They will be behind taking care of you in your older years.
Kasich is not the person I voted for. He don’t care about no one. He has taken away from the children to much. Kasich has taken away a lot of help for the disabiled children. They have closed the mrdd buildings were these kids would go to get therapy, and other things these kids need. It is not his place to take away from our schools we need theses teachers, nurses, music ect. Stop this man someone. Do not vote for this please. I have special needs children they need this.
So the “health” of a student doesn’t consider having the exercise given to them during school? Elementary students need to have the time to release their energy in a productive way instead of just running around screaming and yelling out at recess. Some children go home these days and just sit in front of the tv. We’re trying to reduce the obesity in the U.S? Right? So taking away key roles in schools for children to be healthy and fit and active makes sense. And when it comes to art and music, what are kids supposed to do to express themselves? Art and music are Such important roles in a child’s life. Art teaches them that they can be imaginative and that it’s okay. If kids are just stuck in a classroom all day long then where is their imagination and creativeness going to go? It’ll in my opinion be greatly reduced. How are children supposed to know it’s okay to want to become and artist? A singer? An architect? They won’t know what it consists of. And as a parent I LOVE when my children bring home their artwork and show me their mind in a creative way. It’s always been a part of the education program so why change it now?
WOW…..what is this all coming down to in our education system? Why would anyone in their right mind take away from students in our schools, things that are needed, no matter what. Don’t you think their are students wanting to be artists (which is an imagination to the mind), future musicians, phsy ed for kids that shows them to keep active, which builds for a better mind and body, librarians to keep the record and inventory of books and material which is for the learning process of a child, and nurses to take care of our children to make them feel better and needed, because if you send them home from school, most parents dont have the want in them to take care of their sick child…… Come on Board of Education…..I would hope that you all vote to keep these things in our elementary schools. It is time to get rid of all these nonsense charter schools because all they are for is to fund the rich and make them richer. Quit using taxpayer money (my money) for these foolish schools. Besides, these schools dont care how a child is taught. These are for troubled youth that cant make it in school because parents need to start being parents and step up to the plate to their kids and not just being there at their pleasure! Wake up !!!! Putting money in the hands of Ka-sicks cronies !!!
Art and music are very important parts of the curriculum and need to be made available to children in school. Not everyone excells in math or science. If a child has talent in the arts or music they need to shine so their self confidence can grow. PE especially in America where obesity rages is also important. Go back to teaching regular math and keep culture in the schools so all children have a chance to express their talent whatever it may be!
WOW…..what is this all coming down to in our education system? Why would anyone in their right mind take away from students in our schools, things that are needed, no matter what. Don’t you think there are students wanting to be artists (which is an imagination to the mind), future musicians, phsy ed for kids that shows them to keep active, which builds for a better mind and body, librarians to keep the record and inventory of books and material which is for the learning process of a child, and nurses to take care of our children to make them feel better and needed, because if you send them home from school, most parents dont have the want in them to take care of their sick child…… Come on Board of Education…..I would hope that you all vote to keep these things in our elementary schools. It is time to get rid of all these nonsense charter schools because all they are for is to fund the rich and make them richer. Quit using taxpayer money (my money) for these foolish schools. Besides, these schools dont care how a child is taught. These are for troubled youth that cant make it in school because parents need to start being parents and step up to the plate to their kids and not just being there at their pleasure! Wake up !!!! Putting money in the hands of Ka-sicks cronies !!!
Way to go OHIO! Let’s perpetuate the dumbing down of our nation. Here’s to you and your plan. Obviously none of you were in an arts program, if you were you would be more well rounded than this. *and here I thought no child left behind was the lowest level we could sink to. I appreciate your ability to suprise me still with your lack of foresight and intelligence!!!!
This is just wrong, with all these TV comercials about home schooling. One can’t help but wonder if their trying to get rid of piblic education, one school at a time. I’m a mother of 4 (all graduated), thank God. Cause I would want to try and raise children in these times. Like most Mom, i had to work 2-3 jobs at a time to make end meet. This would have a trickle effect, causing Mothers or Father to leave their jobs just to theach their children or pay for Nannies ect. I know this sounds a little far fetched, but just think about it for a moment
If you have been reading this blog for even a short amount of time you know that to be true – there are forces and organizations working to eliminate public education in our great country.
Seems Plato might have been on to something!
“I would teach the children music, physics and philosophy, but the most important is music, for in the patterns of the arts are the keys to all learning.”
Plato
I weep for Ohio’s children…
This isn’t on the BOE agenda. Please update your readers.
News flash: there are already schools all over Ohio who have eliminated those positions. Xenia Elementary School teachers have taught PE, Music, and Art themselves for three or four years now…
Of course people completely fail to realize is that those changes are not relevant to anything. Its a political play at best. It’s not as if the state of Ohio was forcing anyone’s hand about what to do. Learn to read, people. All that happens is that there’s no more a requirement for certain things. It’s then up to you, dear voters, to make sure your property tax dollars are spent by your school district according to your wishes. The state of Ohio is nor forcing YOUR school district to abolish those positions. Hopefully everyone here understands it now. The outrage is manufactured. There’s nothing to see here.
If you cut these necessary positions, I and many others will be jerking pur children from your schools. How can you cut a nurse out of schools?!?! You do know that a school was recently sued because they did not have a full time nurse and a ten year old girl who needed her preventative asthma meds was denied to be excused from class by her teacher to get her meds because there was no nurse present. The little girl went home that night, suffered an asthma attack and DIED en route to the hospital…. What is wrong with you people on this board!!! Do you not think nurses are required?!?! Do YOU have any children in these schools?!!! This is bull and if you cut them I will find my children a different school or homeschool them. I’m sure MANY others feel the same. There are better ways to make cuts. I hope this creates a strike. As for librarians and P.E. I feel these are not as necessary as a nurse but as long as the children are still able to go to the library and take part in physical recreation daily it wouldn’t be that bad .But with that said these kids are forced to sit still to much already and unless they are going to find other and equal activities for them to physically release their energy then no they should not be cut either. There is enough children already on meds to make them sit still as it is…According to my sons teacher at Madison Ave over HALF of the children are on ADHD meds!!!!! Did you people forget they are CHILDREN!!!! They are supposed to have more energy than us and if you take P.E. away then what?!?! Our children deserve to be able to go to a library in their own school, they need to be up and physically active, and they definitely deserve to have a nurse on call at ALL times of the school day so that uneducated teachers are not guessing and making judgment calls on whether or not OUR children need medical care, meds, or whatever the case may be. You let this happen and I promise it will lead to disaster. I hope you all think about the repercussions of these decisions… I’ll be waiting to see what happens.
As a former School EMT (Summit County) I feel that eliminating health care services and the ability to do daily drug administration of maintenance medications (IE: ADHD, insulin dependent diabetics etc.) and emergency drug administration (IE: Epi-Pens and Asthma medications) would be a disaster. Not to mention the strain that it would put on the staff and local EMS would be disasterous!
As I understand Art, Music and Phys. Ed. are safe due to current ORC(until ORC is revised). Am I misunderstanding this?
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/3313.60
From what I can see of the Agenda, this is exactly what they are voting on that would affect art, phys. ed., music, etc.
23. RESOLUTION TO AMEND RULES 3301-24-03 AND 3301-24-
18 OF THE ADMINISTRATIVE CODE ENTITLED TEACHER
EDUCATION PROGRAMS AND RESIDENT EDUCATOR
LICENSE RESPECTIVELY
From what I can understand of this rule, it is to enforce that teachers be licensed to teach each individual education program. ie: A teacher who is not licensed to art may not teach art.
So, reading between the lines, if this passes, then a teacher who is not licensed to teach art would be allowed to teach it. Which to me, again reading between the lines, the classroom teacher would take over all teaching responsibilities of art, phys. ed., music, etc. and would eliminate the need for specialized teachers, thus reducing the staff numbers and budget.
*And no, I am not happy about this, I do not agree with it, and I will be writing a letter today stating the above rule as it appears on their agenda.
a) cutting elem music and keeping HS is like cutting adding subtracting dividing and multiplication but keeping algebra and calculus. We don’t need to be afraid to make this argument because they won’t cut the HS music- it’s too publicly oriented. They wouldn’t have any players at the football games or singers in their churches.
b) “career readiness” … so are they saying that there are no children in the state of Ohio who aspire to careers in any of these fields or are they saying that they don’t care to prepare them for them?
Drwew, Artsiegal, Diane and others…
Why is anyone arguing with clueless Carl.
Anyone who studies the brain and has read Gardner on the development of the intelligence knows that development of the whole brain is crucial. Critical thinking is a POWER…like all skills, and all skills need practice especially comparison and analysis, which is a strong component of doing art… not just studying it.
The area of the brain that interprets music also deals with the logic of math…but there is something else that Carl (and his ilk) is missing… it is the humanity in us that recognizes that not everyone is cut out to be a scientist or to go to college.
10% of my students each year were accepted to the High School of Fine Arts and many went on to careers in the arts. They used the art portfolio they developed in my English classes! Art was my motivational tool, and inserted into the communication arts curricula THAT I WROTE BEFORE GATES AND CLONES DECIDED WHAT WORKS IN ENABLING LEARNING.
yes…every third week I developed lessons around the elements and principles of design, and introduced the 13 year old kids to mediums like pen and ink, watercolor, pastels etc. They would use this to create covers for their stories, and scenery for their plays and… well whatever uses they could find for knowing how to use media to create something!!!
If EVERYONE did the required hard work for my writing and literature units, then EVERYONE got a week of art. MY goodness, what talent was uncovered… and not surprisingly, some of the kids who wrote poetry and fiction, and who played an instrument, were also very tuned into the CONCEPTS that underly design, like balance and unity, for example. BRAINS AT WORK.
Not surprising, either, that my students rose to the top of NYC standardized tests…
author40790.html
… using their brains as they did in my class and in our school– where all teachers worked together to develop the whole brain.
This nation’s entire narrative is being shaped by clueless people attempting to monateriize the ‘schools’ by treating teachers like employees in an office, not the PROFESSIONALS who know what LEARNING LOOKS LIKE…
They threw the teachers out, and put Mr Gates and clones in charge of spelling out ‘curricula’. Imagine if the business people ran the hospitals so that they told the doctors what they could not use or do in their practice, and then blamed them when people died.
The result of testing, testing — testing for math and science and everything has made children so unhappy their parents have to fight to get them to go to school
in today’s NY Times
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/10/us/states-listen-as-parents-give-rampant-testing-an-f.html?ref=education&_r=0
MOTIVATION for children is another thing missing in this national conversation that convinces the Carls of the country, that ar tan music are superfluous to the school.
Children learn to think critically when allaying and comparing the elements that comprise music and art… and they, like all humans (except those like Carl) love musical and artistic activities. Maybe the idea that he can get a 100% on a test may motivate Carl’s progeny, and the thought that if they do well on the tests they can get into college in ten years spurs his first grader to do hi s best, , but exploring rhythms or colors certainly gets the attention of adolescents , too, and they develop brain power to be used in other pursuits.
How do you explain science of learning and pedagogy to the carls out there… why bother.
Please…you sound intelligent and back up your statements with facts,
Innovative education is not what the state wants.
Pew paid for third level research with Harvard and the Univ of Pittsburgh. I was the cohort. I am just telling you what I know to be true. The state has lost control… the conspiracy that has taken out the professional teacher across the country wants an ignorant citizenry.
Everything I say is true. Everything I published at Oped is true.
period.
My daughter is very talented in music along with her other academic grades. It was her Kindergarten teacher that discovered my daughters musical talent, because she taught her class by music. I always said that if all teachers taught their classes with some form of music my daughter would be a straight A student all the time.
Send me every thing
“Through music study, students experience the beauty of musical expression… Beauty, compassion, feeling, appreciation, sensitivity, love, peace, tolerance, sympathy, warmth, empathy, self-esteem, cooperation, and respect… These are but a few ‘living or life priorities’ hidden in music study! No other discipline addresses these ‘living or life priorities’ in the manner which music does.”
~ Edward S. Lisk
……..and those are EXACTLY the things government is trying to rid it’s people of. Beauty, compassion, feeling, appreciation, sensitivity, love, peace, tolerance, sympathy, warmth, empathy, self-esteem, cooperation, and respect!
Diane, you need to make sure your facts are straight before posting this kind of stuff. It is NOT true!!!! There should be a law about posting hoaxes like this one!!!
Your right it not November it’s December
http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/11/is_the_state_school_board_kill.html#incart_m-rpt-1
It is true. Why do you think it is not? Did you contact a State board member as I did? You need to have your facts straight not Diane.
Who said it is a hoax!?
Too late. We saw a fire up in the sky, and it was locked on by the state media squad.
http://www.10tv.com/content/stories/2014/11/10/columbus-ohio-ohio-school-board-to-consider-change-that-may-eliminate-jobs-for-art-music–gym-teachers.html
If the State Board of Education really wanted to help support the education and total learning of the children in the state of Ohio then this would not even come up. Is this another Kasich attempt to destroy public education? Obama (Mrs.) is pushing for more of the arts, music and especially Physical Education. This passage would be just plain stupid.
What about smaller schools that have under 1,000 students, are they no longer required to have these “special” classes?
I think groups of moms should bond together and start a Home Schooling program, which then could be transformed into a private school like “The Attic” in Seattle, WA. This is an amazing school which started by 5 moms who were disenchanted with the school systems. They started by home schooling their kids together and then created a private school, which is very successful. If this could be set up everywhere, we could dissolve most of the public schools and all of its bureaucracy.
we need the staff in elementary schools. These students need a nurse, they need a librarian , and the arts. Many children need the social workers to help them cope with their problems they have at home and in the schools. This would and could be very harmful to a lot of children in Ohio school systems! Please vote to keep them in our schools. I work with students and many need these people to make it thru the day/week/years. PLEASE -VOTE TO KEEP THEM!
Write to the Chairman of the committee ron.rudduck@education.ohio.gov and OperatingStandards@education.ohio.gov today!! Please let them know that this is not an acceptable option. This is being voted out of committee today.
Hi Ron,
I can’t express how frustrating it is to hear that you are considering doing away with physical education, music, and art all together! Until recently, these components were a very important part of our culture and a necessary part of our American educational system. I personally loved every minute of art, music, and gym. My daughter was just saying to me this evening how sad it makes her that gym is over for the year. Living in Northeastern Ohio, November marks the beginning of 5 months of cold weather indoors. With all the concern about childhood obesity, I am surprised that you are all too quick to get rid of important programs that encourage learning and self confidence. I am saddened that I live in this district. I am even more sad that the people in charge of our children’s futures have lost sight of their privilege in providing the necessary American Education/Experience that helped shaped who they are now. The last levy passed in our district and my taxes have gone up!!!!! Cutting the American Education/Experience in half and to expect children able to grow up well-rounded is retarded rationale! What justification do you have to continue to take away from the people funding “Your” idea of an educational system? It is time to get creative! Failure is not an option!!!!!!
Stop this nonsense We need libraries, music, art and P.E. in our schools for our most precious things in our lives they are our children. Please VOTE TO KEEP THEM THERE. What could anyone be thinking to even suggested our kids don’t deserve these things to make them who God intended them to be.
I’m sorry, but I can’t find any evidence of this anywhere. Our union reps know nothing about it, and there’s nothing about it on the Ohio Educational Association page. I looked at the voting agenda for the meeting and I can find no evidence of it there either. This would be a much bigger deal if it were actually true.
Please check the post that went up a few minutes ago. Patrick O’Donnell of the Cleveland Plain Dealer confirms that the issue will come up in the State Board’s December meeting. In the name of “mandate relief,” the board is considering eliminating the requirement that schools of at least 1,000 hire 5 of 8 for certain positions, including arts teachers, music teachers, librarians, nurses, etc. Read the post.
Got it – and just got the email from the OEA. They probably didn’t jump on it because the vote is in December as you pointed out.
This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard not only are our kids getting confused with all this new common core crap but now some of the things that children love the most are being taken away from them if this craziness passes i think more parents should take there children out of public schools and start home schooling…..my son is in kindergatren this year and when he comes home his face lights up when he talks about art, music gym etc. I never hear him say “wow! I got to do confusing new math.” our children are not robots who are never meant to have fun in life. We need to go back to the way we all learned to do things when we were in school (like real math, and cursive)…..get some real people on the school board and maybe listen to what some of the children have to say because all I hear children saying these days is that they have so much homework that they can not even have a life outside of school and be aloud to be a kid
To take the fine arts away from elementary students leaves us with an u creative bunch of youngsters. The arts are a reason some students stay in school . We should name the State board lack of education
You cannot do away with the arts and music out of elementary schools! It would be a complete outrage! All children need the in out of music in their lives whatever their background and schools should be compelled to provide a full rounded education for every pupil!
November 11th is Veterans Day. State offices are closed so no meeting tomorrow.
My son is a first grader and I can’t imagine his education continuing without PE, Art and Music. All of those things were very important in my development when I was in school. All of these are very important to help inspire future generations. I strongly disagree with taking these extra curricular activities out of our schools. Not everyone has the ability to pay for these things outside of school and they are very important for EVERYONE’S continued development.
What are you thinking?
Music us such a big part of children’s lives.
Here is an example, my son in 6th grade was a c-d student, and because if music, (band) it had strengthened him in his school academics. He then went to an A-B student. It even helped my daughter increase her grades and her confidence level.
Listen to George Edge who also wrote in this topic as well!!
Music is proven to help with child development.
Do none of the backers of this bill do their homework . These services are of vital importance to both the development and education of our students. We are regressing to a Neanderthal society when we even consider doing away with such important services.
This is total BS…..BS BS BS BS. all day long BS. Talk about making America last in education, this will make it happen much faster.😝
I am an Elementary School Library Media Specialist in Kansas. I along with the rest of my team (music, PE, art) provide planning time for the classroom teachers. How will those teachers get planning time if there are no “specials”?
WOW!
After 40 years of education, I cannot believe that the Ohio Board of Education came up with this “insane” idea. What are they thinking about? Any one that has been in the classroom with children would “Never” think anything like this, Never!!!
Please rethink this idea and change your unrealistic idea. Thank You.
Cultural Imperatives: reading, math, writing … a.k.a. literacy and numeracy. Cultural electives: music, art, foreign language, etc. We would have the latter to the exclusion of the former? Must the schools be all things? What is the role of schooling in American society? No literacy, no numeracy, no democracy.
In college, one is expected to take extra generals for arts, laguage, etc. Why would you take this away from elementary or junior or senior high students if you will still expect this in college?
As a nurse, I realize how many students are on certain daily medications they have to take at school, who better to make sure this is done correctly, than a nurse?
As a parent, going in to the schools, and as PTO, I see a large group of children that need gym class to promote well-being, and health, who only get the proper exercise or fun activities that gym offers. Art, and music help children express themselves, children who may not be in sports may excel in these areas, or just the knowledge they obtain from these classes may help them in life and college classes later.
All these things may be the only way certain children get because their parents may not be able to afford to expose them to these activities outside of the classrooms.
Students learn way more than these specialties from these teachers, my son has learned respect, citizenship, sportsmanship, arts with history, he has learned about himself, he has learned inspiration, triumph, patience, and very well-rounded student. These reasons are why we need the specialties at the schools.
Many schools in the nation should comsider streamline a schools cirriculum to give children the best education la reduced budget can afford. We can model our schools after other competitive schools in the developed world; encourage parents and community to sponsor after school activities augmenting traditional classrooms with separate educational programs. Ultimately the core of our funding should go to the most qualified teachers who have a passion for learning.
Elliot Eisner – where are you?
Artistry, therefore, can serve as a regulative ideal for education, a vision that adumbrates what really matters in schools. To conceive of students as artists who do their art in science, in the arts, or the humanities, is, after all, both a daunting and a profound aspiration. It may be that by shifting the paradigm of education reform and teaching from one modeled after the clocklike character of the assembly line into one that is closer to the studio or innovative science laboratory might provide us with a vision that better suits the capacities and the futures of the students we teach. It is in this sense, I believe, that the field of education has much to learn from the arts about the practice of education. It is time to embrace a new model for improving our schools. (Eisner 2004)
Who still thinks Big Brother has your child’s best interests at heart, can care for them as well as or better than you?? Home school. Quit allowing them to ruin your children.
Hey, Joe, who liked my comment,? What blog are you referring to.
Our kids need our nurses,physical education, art, music…..etc! Please stop taking from our kids! This is absurd! Do not take these things away from our kids!
I actually received a response from one of the State Board members who summarized their dilemma with the following:
“There is an old rule that requires schools to fill 5 of 8 specialist positions including art, music, phys Ed, nurse, counselor, librarian, social worker and visiting teacher. Since the rule was made several years ago more specialists have come into being such as ESL, reading, speech pathologist, tutors, teachers aids, etc. making the rule outdated. The question is how should it be changed to cover the many new positions that now exist and how much of this becomes an unfunded mandate. Do we now tell schools they must have ten of fifteen or fifteen of twenty specialists? Which of these positions should be optional. How will a mandate to hire specialists impact a district’s ability to hire teachers?”
The email goes on to request a response with suggestion on how to better assess the problem. I am an arts advocate and not an educator. I welcome some resources, ideas or opinions to help me craft the response I’m preparing.
I think the board member is confusing some facts with some of her examples. Teacher Aides and tutors are generally parapros whereas everyone in the current law are professionals. It’s apples to oranges. Speech Pathologists are already required by Ohio’s special education operating standards (and have been for at least 30 years) so they should have nothing to do with this law.
ESL Teachers vary greatly, some are actual teachers, so are just aides. If she wanted to add ESL Teachers to the 5 of 8 rule, so it’s 5 of 9, that I suppose could be logical.
Her examples make me worry about about what the board member really know/understands about school staff and Ohio’s rules. The Speech Pathologist example being the most worrisome, because that person is already required by another part of the law. The other examples are also scary because most of them are parapfessional positions, whereas the current law is only addressing fully licensed and college educated professionals.
Reblogged this on Person First Education and commented:
Things that make you go HMMMMM…..
Two observations:
1. Watch specialists flee Ohio like running from the plague;
2. Sure am glad I’m retired from education, where the GOP conservative inmates are running the asylum. 7 days ago the voters elected a congress that is hell bent on destroying public education forever & privitizing it for corporate profit. Our little ones are in deep trouble as long as the low information voters keep listening to the right wing lies.
Please rethink this ! Our children need healthy bodies, need to be exposed to art and music! Knowledge and learning wear many faces. We need educated well-rounded adults. These children are our future!
Please vote to keep these programs…things like these give kids something positive to do instead of having idol time for drugs and trouble, it also allows them to improve their God given talents and go on to be singers, actors, musicians, athletes…Wachovia nurses need to be there as well, we need to keep our kids healthy at school. A sick child can make everyone sick and some parents don’t pay attention or know what to do. Please…stop gving raises, stop some advertising cost, stop printing so many papers do one calls instead, that could cut costs but don’t cut our children’s futures!
It makes you wonder whether any of Kasich’s appointed board members had any creative thoughts while in school or just studied business and the bottom line for profits. No wonder these people are worthless in making public education the #1 priority in Ohio.
Under section 3301.07 of the Ohio Revised Code, “the purpose for adopting operating standards for Ohio school districts and elementary and secondary schools is to assure that all students are provided a general education of high quality.” Specific expectations and guidelines are further provided within the ORC to create “the best learning conditions or meeting the personalized and individualized needs of each student” while also achieving state and local educational goals and objectives. According to Merriam-Webster.com, a standard is “a level of quality, achievement, etc., that is considered acceptable or desirable.” As a parent of two children and as an educator, I want the State Board of Education to ensure my children and all children in Ohio have acceptable operating standards that will prepare them to not only graduate and be workforce ready, but also to succeed in our “global economy as productive citizens” (State Board of Education vision). I am not satisfied with accepting minimum requirements for my own children (as stated on the State Board of Education Operating Standards website). The operating standards currently in debate (3301-35-05-1 and 3301-35-05-4) should be re-written in such a way that they will help my children and all children in Ohio succeed.
In March 11, 2014, Board President Terhar “noted that local school boards need the flexibility to make decisions in the best interest of their students.” Providing flexibility to local school boards in how they implement the operating standards does not “assure all students are provided a general education of high quality.” Shouldn’t all school boards in the state of Ohio be held accountable to the same operating standards, just as our educators and students are currently being held accountable and tested? How can we “assure that all students are provided a general education of high quality” when the very operating standards that are in place are currently being re-written to such a minimal level that only those schools that can afford to provide “the best learning conditions” will do so? The future of Ohio’s welfare, its economy and citizenry, needs and demands quality standards.
I want my children and all of Ohio’s children to have credentialed (licensed) educators who teach “21st century knowledge and skills for real-world success” and “effectively deliver support for a high quality education” (objectives one and two of the State Board of Education). I want operating standards that require all local school boards to provide acceptable standards and staffing to not only include core classroom teachers but to also include: art, gifted/exceptional programming, librarian/media specialist, music, physical education, nurse, nutritionist, reading specialist, social worker, technology integration, world language, and anyone else who will help ensure my children thrive. I want high quality standards. Who will join me in demanding that the Ohio State Board of Education require all of Ohio’s children to have high quality operating standards?
I just have to think that it is a part of Kasich’s overall plan to begin to severely cut the services and overall well being of Ohio’s public school systems. What else could it mean? He probably knows as he continues to cut funding for the Ohio schools and this ratio rule is eliminated, the poor districts will be forced to let go of these important educators. It all makes me sick. I am relieved that my children are older, and it reinforces the fact that my husband and I wish to move out of Ohio someday.
PLEASE NOTE THAT JOHN KASICH WISHES TO BE PRESIDENT OF THE U.S. It is such a scary thought to me.
What is wrong with our board??? These are vital positions in our schools!! They want to produce students who know one thing: how to take tests!!!! I taught in a low income school in Ohio for 17 years…. Music, art, and gym are important to developing the “WHOLE student… Studies have proven that these subject areas definitely improve test scores which is what they are after!! I hope that each board member spends time in a school like I did every day where children who lack basic needs like food & a decent place to live come to get educated so they can have a better life!! They need guidance counselors, social workers, and school nurses to help them!! Classroom teachers CANNOT do this job alone!! We all need to pay attention to what these leaders are doing to our children’s schools!!!!
No.no.no.no.no. What about this sounds like a good idea? Taking away what makes the people happy? I personally have been involved in theatre for many years and this angers me. Why would you even think about taking away things that are so important to the community? Really? How does this fix the problem? Trick question; it doesn’t. We as humans are too focused on money nowadays. We don’t care as long as we have money. No. Happiness comes from doing what you love. By cutting all of these programs, you’d be stripping so many people of their happiness. Do you want to do that? I wouldn’t! Let’s not be unreasonable here. Keep these programs please! Do it for the sake of the community.
Ahhhh! Thank you Mr. Governor for wanting to crush public education for a quick fix to the budget. Thank you for taking away the dream of everyone having the opportunity for a better life. Keep taking away from the public schools and giving it to private schools that only the wealthy can afford. The rich stay rich and the poor stay poor. Without public education, there will be no chance in hell for anyone to climb the “class” latter.
Well I have an opinion but I would bet it doesn’t count. These programs R vital to our younger children as some have not idea what art is, many do not have access to books as their parents work hard to feed and clothe them and do not have time to spend adequate time to take them to Library, Nurses and Councelors in the school are about to catch chil abuse and neglect faster than a teacher with ove 30 students in her class. As for art, where else can a child who lives in poverty and hoods learn to see the beauty of this work that I themselves can creat if not by art in school. Some of these kids live in squaller and have no idea that they can change a small part of their world if not taught that they CAN do it themselves
Until two years ago I was a half-time Certified Library Specialist at an elementary school five minutes from my house. An addition was to be built on and that school would become a middle school. In January 2012 they told me I would be put on the transfer list but there would be an opening at another school in the system, about twenty miles away. I made an appointment with the principal of that school to discuss my assignment, and he informed me I would be teaching state history to eighth grade students. That was alright with me because I have an under graduate degree in social studies, and I really love teaching social studies. Then he said that I would be required to go to another school and teach reading to sixth grade students. When I informed him that I am not certified to teach sixth grade reading he said I should take night classes at the university to get certified. When I ask to see the textbooks I would be using, I was informed that there would be none. Lessons and tests would be on computers. The room to which I would be assigned was formerly that school’s library. All school libraries in the system would be used for additional computer labs. I understand that school libraries are being taken out all over our country, and I think that art, music and physical education will be next. Taking the students favorite subjects away is indeed a very poor plan!
This is just another payoff to White Hat and the like for all their lovely campaign money. Trash the public schools, divert more money to for-profit charters (that are typically even less effective than the public schools) and laugh all the way to the bank.
Ohio’s current educational mess sickens me. Get the profit driven charters under control, institute real accountability for both charter and public schools, reward the effective charters (there are some excellent ones, even among the for-profit ranks) and for God’s sake stop trying to kill off every school program that doesn’t contribute directly to increased test scores.
The president of the State Board says this is to allow local schools to have more control of what is taught in schools. Well, this is a decades old “can of worms”. The state was supposed to be equalizing what is taught and the amount of money going to schools. What is good for Orange in Delaware County should be equal for Zane Trace in Ross County,as an example. Not happening. Plus, our kids are dictated by local forces many times, that do not want to see what is a good, well rounded education for our district. Another words, too much local politics. People in Columbus do not understand what happens in small districts, how difficult it is to try to reason with voters who are living in the past or have personal grudges. After fighting this for so many years, I thought the problem would be a little better. But, no..it is worse. God help our children!
I personally think mandatory art and music is a bit of a waste. Same with a lot of other ‘elective” classes. That’s what they should be – electives or interests pursued outside of school. I’d rather my child spend extra time in math or computer science or science than making a “georgia okeefe inspired posterboard.” American kids fall behind in STEM fields and earlier, more intense exposure might help our country’s future in these fields.
Yes, and the operative words are “I think.,” BIG I!
Have you studied Gardner or others who know how the brain acquires thinking skills that are used to ‘do’ math?
Have you ever studied methodology that takes into account motivating a child to learn?
Have you ever studied???
Hmmm.
Do you have some opinions on how medicine or law should be practiced?
Hmmm…. just how learning should be enabled.
A “yes” vote means “No”. If I can remember there was a bill that was voted down that would have fixed part of this problem. People were saying if the bill passed we would have fewer teachers, programs will be cut, crowded classrooms, longer response time for police and fire, the ads were everywhere. The truth about the bill was to give the State a more level playing field when it came to labor talks with the unions. There was no way this current system of “give us what we want or else”(can anyone say “Detroit”). I forget the name of that bill. I REMEMBER S.B. 5
Wow Really! ! This is ridiculous! Shame on them, what’s next, food, lockers, chairs, tables! Soon it we’ll be sending our kids to jails insted.of schools! little cookie cutter kids, no personally allowed!
And now they’re pulling religion Holidays out our schools too, it makes me Soo mad!
Please no! This makes no sense on many levels. Those classes help students learn (read a study!) & those staff are invaluable!
Trust me when I tell you that growing up in vietnam I never had these people in my schools, but we were doing fine wo them. We only started PE in 6th grade; however at that level we started to add pre-algebra then add algebra in 7th+physics+geometry; in 8th we add chemistry + Trigonometry; at 9th grade we add calculus; all of these classes are taken every year at a more advance level. So when you’re in 12th, you would have 6 years of physics, 5yrs of chemistry, etc. They don’t have unlimited resources like us here, so they focus on the key elements only. The culture here is different, but we are no longer having unlimited means therefore we have to make tough choices now. And it will get worst because our population grow bigger and as the baby boomers are aging we will have less $ for everything. At a certain point we have to ask ourselves are Math and Sciences more important than music and PE?