Michael Hiltzik, the invaluable columnist for the Los Angeles Times, wrote about the medical experts who pushed bad advice on COVID, costing innumerable lives, but never paid a price.
They’ve held credentials from some of the world’s most elite universities — Harvard, Stanford, Johns Hopkins, Oxford. They’ve been welcomed into the highest government policy councils. They became fixtures on television news shows and were quoted incessantly by some of the nation’s leading newspapers.
They’re a cadre of academics and scientists who pushed a discredited solution to the COVID pandemic, shunning masks, school closings, even vaccines, all in the name of reaching the elusive goal of “herd immunity,” resulting in what may have been hundreds of thousands of unnecessary American deaths.
That’s the contention of “We Want Them Infected,” a painstakingly documented new book by Jonathan Howard, a neurologist at New York University and a veteran debunker of the pseudoscience contaminating our efforts to fight the pandemic.
Howard takes his title from Paul Alexander, an epidemiologist in the Health and Human Services Department during the Trump administration.
In July 2020, Alexander offered his view of how to exploit the relative risks of COVID to discrete populations to reach herd immunity. The idea was that so many people would eventually become naturally infected with the virus, and therefore immune from further infection, that the virus would be unable to spread further.
“Infants, kids, teens, young people, young adults, middle aged with no conditions etc. have zero to little risk,” he told top HHS officials. “So we use them to develop herd … we want them infected.”
Alexander’s proposal was essentially a screed against lockdowns. That suited the Trump White House, which was searching for ways around the economic dislocations caused by the virus. But he was wrong about the toll of sickness and death that would result, allowing the virus to rage among these ostensibly low-risk groups, and wrong about the prospects of reaching herd immunity naturally.
“We Want Them Infected” may be the most appalling and infuriating book you’ll read about America’s response to the pandemic. It’s also essential reading.
The book is populated by quacks, mountebanks and charlatans — and not a few scholars with distinguished academic records — many of whom appear to have been seduced by the embrace of the right-wing echo chamber into promoting unproven and disproved policies.
“It’s unbelievable that while doctors like myself were working to treat sick COVID patients, begging people to stay at home and be safe,” Howard told me, “there was another group of doctors working at cross-currents to us — prominent doctors wanting to purposely infect unvaccinated young people with the promise that herd immunity would arrive in a couple of months.”
They consistently minimized the gravity of the pandemic, but rarely if ever acknowledged that their optimistic forecasts of illness and deaths were consistently proved wrong.
There are a number of problems with the herd immunity theory. One is that immunity from COVID infection tends to wane over time rather than become permanent. Also, infection with one variant of the virus doesn’t necessarily confer immunity from other variants, of which there have been many.
Another problem is that COVID can be a devastating disease for victims of any age. Allowing anyone to become infected can expose them to serious health problems.
Moreover, the prospect that COVID could be defeated by the natural expansion of herd immunity persuaded many people not to bother with proven countermeasures, including social distancing, masking and vaccination.
Today, more than three years after COVID first appeared, the U.S. still has not achieved herd immunity although it is nearing the goal, in the view of Robert Wachter, chair of the department of medicine at UC San Francisco. The disease’s trajectory has been cataclysmic — the U.S. death toll stands at 1.13 million, hundreds of children have died, and an estimated 245,000 children have lost one or both parents to COVID. The U.S. leads the world in COVID deaths; its death rate of 3,478 per million population is worse than that of Britain, Spain, France, the Nordic countries, Canada and Israel.
Some herd immunity advocates offered their blithe forecasts in a misguided, if not dishonest, attempt to provide comfort to the American public. Scott Atlas, a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution of Stanford University, urged HHS officials in March 2020 to advocate against lockdowns on grounds they were “inciting irrational fear” of the virus, which he estimated would cause about 10,000 deaths. “The panic needs to be stopped,” Atlas wrote.
Atlas soon became a top advisor to Trump, promoting the herd immunity theory in the White House despite the objections of more experienced advisors such as Dr. Deborah Birx.
Howard is especially disturbed at how politicizing the pandemic has allowed fringe ideas to infiltrate public health policies.
“In 2019 you would have been considered a quack if you suggested that the best way to get rid of a virus is to spread the virus,” he says. “But that became mainstream and influenced politicians at the highest levels.”
In his book, Howard reserves his deepest scorn for the promoters of the “Great Barrington Declaration,” a manifesto for herd immunity published in October 2020 and signed initially by epidemiologists Jay Bhattacharya of Stanford; Martin Kulldorff, then of Harvard; and Sunetra Gupta of Oxford. (Thousands of other academics and scientists would later add their signatures.)
The core of the declaration was opposition to lockdowns. Its solution was what its drafters called “focused protection,” which meant allowing “those who are at minimal risk of death to live their lives normally to build up immunity to the virus through natural infection, while better protecting those who are at highest risk” — chiefly seniors.
Older people living at home, the declaration said, should be kept apart from other family members except by meeting them outside, and “should have groceries and other essentials delivered to their home.”
Focused protection, the promoters wrote, would allow society to achieve herd immunity and return to normalcy in three to six months.
As Howard documents, the declaration was little more than a libertarian fantasy. That may not have been surprising, because one of its organizers was an arch-libertarian named Jeffrey Tucker.
For a taste of Tucker’s worldview, consider a 2016 article entitled “Let the kids work.” There he ridiculed the Washington Post for publishing a photo gallery of child laborers from 100 years ago, including miners and sweatshop workers as young as 10.
Tucker’s response was that those children were “working in the adult world, surrounded by cool bustling things and new technology. They are on the streets, in the factories, in the mines, with adults and with peers, learning and doing. They are being valued for what they do, which is to say being valued as people…. Whatever else you want to say about this, it’s an exciting life.”
A better life, at least, than “pushed by compulsion into government holding tanks for a full decade” — that is, going to school.
The declaration’s promoters, Howard writes, never specified how to achieve their goals. Delivering food and supplies to millions of housebound seniors? In a Hoover Institution interview, Bhattacharya said, “We could have offered free DoorDash to older people.”
As Howard observes, Bhattacharya was remarkably sanguine about “creating a program overnight to deliver fresh food to tens of millions of seniors for months on end throughout the entire country.”
Similar hand-waving addressed the problems of multigenerational households, in which millions of vulnerable elders live. Older family members, the declaration authors wrote, “might temporarily be able to live with an older friend or sibling, with whom they can self-isolate together during the height of community transmission. As a last resort, empty hotel rooms could be used for temporary housing.”
Of course, hermetically sealing off tens of millions of “nonvulnerable” people from tens of millions of vulnerable people in a few weeks would be “the single greatest logistical challenge humanity had ever undertaken,” Howard observes. “Nowhere in the world used focused protection to achieve herd immunity in three to six months, as the Great Barrington Declaration promised.”
What the declaration really promoted was complacency. Its drafters, Howard says, were “people with no real-world responsibility for much of anything who made impossible things sound very easy. The task of actually getting food into the houses of elderly people was left up to public health authorities who were understaffed, overwhelmed and underfunded.”
What may be the most inexcusable element of the herd immunity movement was its implication that children could be used as shields for the rest of the population. Its advocates counseled against vaccinating young children on the grounds that their susceptibility to the virus was minimal or even nonexistent, so they could safely acquire immunity naturally — and perhaps, as Vinay Prasad of UC San Francisco implied, provide an immunity boost to adults in their families.
Yet although children tended to suffer less from symptoms when they were infected, they were anything but immune. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, more than 1,600 American children under the age of 18 have died from COVID during the pandemic.
In any case, death is not the only serious outcome from COVID. The CDC says more than 14,000 children were hospitalized for COVID during the pandemic. An untold number of children may suffer from long COVID or other lifelong manifestations of the disease. For doctors to counsel deliberately exposing children to COVID when a vaccine is available, especially if the purpose is to protect adults, is “a moral abomination,” Howard says. He’s right.
In a world guided by science, the promoters of an unsuccessful herd immunity theory would long ago have lost their credibility and their public soapboxes.
The opposite has happened. Bhattacharya and Kulldorff still have their platforms (Kulldorff is now associated with the right-wing Hillsdale College). Both were appointed in December by Florida’s anti-vaccine governor, Ron DeSantis, to a “Public Health Integrity Committee” charged with questioning federal public health policies.
Scott Atlas, meanwhile, was tapped to deliver the commencement address at New College of Florida, a once-renowned liberal arts institution that DeSantis has turned into a haven for right-wing pedagogy. He was greeted with boos from the audience of graduating seniors, however, indicating that the youth of America perhaps can’t be gulled as easily as their parents.
At this moment, anti-science ideology on the right appears to be in the ascendance. Agitation against the COVID vaccine is metastasizing into an opposition movement against all childhood vaccinations, a trend that threatens to produce a surge in other vaccine-preventable diseases such as measles and polio.
“The anti-vaccine movement has spotted an opportunity to sow doubt,” Howard told me. “Getting rid of all school vaccine mandates has always been the Holy Grail for them.”
Howard’s book is a warning. We may be on the verge of a public health disaster, because the promoters of a failed theory that COVID could be fought through “natural immunity” without vaccines have been able to wrap themselves in the mantle of truth-tellers. But they’re not.

In addition to errant medical professionals, there has been no accountability for governors that failed to used Covid funds to combat Covid. Many of them including DeSantis have misused the funds. While the feds have gone after all the fake loans, they need to go after governors that misused funds as well. DeSantis is using the money to patrol the Texas border, migrant flights and an $92 million dollar interchange on Route 95 that a donor requested. Public officials need to held to account for their misdeeds. https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/desantis-administration-directed-covid-funds-donor-backed-priority-rcna91991
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Having credentials from elite universities doesn’t mean that a person acts intelligently or reasonably.
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Frances Kelsey Fan About elite-school graduates not necessarily being intelligent or reasonable: never were truer words written.
On the other hand, neither do they ALL deserve to be thrown into the basket (in our minds) marked: arrogant, gated, “elitist,” morally corrupt, or politically destructive, or spiritually flat (heading for dead).
An awareness of stereotypes and tacit bias against all sorts of groups has been around in our cultural lore for a long time now, but some still fail to “get it.” CBK
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It also includes military academies. If you look at the top leadership in the military over the past 70 years, there is a noticeable paucity from their ranks. The four top generals at Central Command right before the outbreak of the first Iraq were: George Washington University, CCNY, Oberlin, and West Point. Mark Milley graduated from Princeton (see paragraph two of CBK above). Prior to him, going backwards, the previous 13 chairmen of the Joint Chiefs graduated from: Saint Michael’s College, West Point, Annapolis, Annapolis, Kansas State, North Carolina State, GWU, Oregon, CCNY, Annapolis, U. of Maryland (night school), North Dakota, West Point.
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Greg The Military . . . yes of course. An old friend who attended and went on to military service told me that the idea that the President (not a general or military person) was the Commander in Chief was sacrosanct. PERIOD. But that was awhile back.
It was that thinking that made me so surprised to see Flynn’s more recent activities . . . a truth had turned to naivete on my part.
Don’t tell anyone, but it is that proper separation and relationship between the military and a democratically elected government that kept our last President from clinching the deal. CBK
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This blog has issues with DeSantis and trump, while Cuomo killed thousands putting sick people in nursing homes. Beetlejuice, lighfoot a disaster and many other blue states struggling.
Trump sent a fleet that was not even used in new york. Masks were a lie. They were harmful and did not work. Also, a disaster for our kids in a way which affects not only their learning, but their health. Vaccines have been so problematic with blood clots, menstruation issues, pericarditis and myocarditis. ,HCQ ivermectin zinc work fine. The flu is more deadly than covid for children and 99.4% survival omg soooo scary. Brainwashed sheep watched CNN and their death fear meter like sheep you are bahhhhhhhh.
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This guy really is a sociological case study for a thesis. The best part is he honestly thinks everyone gets their views from tee vee. Probably never been to NY, but seems to know everything NewsMax told him to (grammar be damned, it’s not worth the effort). Good idea to keep his posts up so we can see pathological behavior in real time. He represents at least 45% of the voting population, folks!
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Scary but true
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Wow. You ramble a lot Josh
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Josh,
I am fully vaccinated and have had no problems, even though I have pre-existing lung conditions and underwent heart surgery at the height of the pandemic. I wore a mask whenever I was outside. Last Christmas, I spent a week in Mexico, did not wear a mask, and got COVID. Fortunately, because I was fully vaccinated, my case was mild.
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Unfortunately one individuals experiences are not valid reasons to validate public health policy or any policy . But there is no amount of valid Scientific research data you could give to this Trumptard to change his views.
Biden could have changed their views. Had Biden thanked Red District Republicans for dropping dead in higher numbers than Democrats.
” Ask me if I care”
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I am no fan of Cuomo. Just saying.
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I hope you never need surgery, Josh. Truly. But if you ever do, please do not try to convince your surgeon that masks are harmful and don’t work. That is a bad idea. Doctors wear masks and gowns. It doesn’t hurt them. It protects their patients. Louis Pasteur would roll over in his grave if he read your comment. This is 2023, not 1823, right?
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Dare I say it? Josh is a liar, and he is cognitively challenged.
Obviously, he is a Republican (or perhaps her terms himself a “libertarian.”)
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Saying a thing doesn’t make it true!
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Christine You need to check with Trump about that; and bring a Sharpie with you. CBK
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This will be The Patriotic Post of the week.
A Deep Reckoning lies DEAD ahead.
Here is an interview w/ Dr. Jonathan Howard.
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Am listening to this now, trying to do work. Trying. First 10 minutes have been very interesting so far. Thank you for posting.
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Him calling out Vinay Prasad near the end just warmed my heart. He’s a loud mouth that the NYT and others love who John Arnold’s view of the world and profit from it.
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Thanks again, Kathy! I live in the cross section between science, public policy, and a particular disease. This discussion and the explanations it generates is very enlightening. Not made for tee vee-addicted culture, but definitely for people who care about the cross section of public policy, politics and public understanding of science. I recommend this to everyone.
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“There are a number of problems with the herd immunity theory”
The article didn’t even mention the biggest problem: even when it is actually a reasonable goal herd immunity is only pursued through the use of vaccines.
The idea of achieving herd immunity by purposefully infecting millions of people with a disease is just pure quackery.
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They’ve held credentials from some of the world’s most elite universities — Harvard, Stanford, Johns Hopkins, Oxford. They’ve been welcomed into the highest government policy councils. They became fixtures on television news shows and were quoted incessantly by some of the nation’s leading newspapers.“
But were never held accountable.
Apparently no one ever informed Hiltzik that having an elite credential means never having to say you were sorry or even admit you were wrong.
And being wrong (even catastrophically) is seldom if ever sufficient reason to disqualify one as a go to “expert” to be advisors to Presidents and interviewed ad nauseam by the American news media.
Just look at Henry Kissinger who is STILL being rolled out (and I mean that in the sense of a ball,not a wheelchair) as a foreign policy expert every time there is an international incident.
For the elites, having been wrong is not a negative, even when one never admitted to having been wrong.
Once you are on the Club, you are there for life.
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Jabba the Kissinger
If ever there was
A Jabba the Hut
Then Henry is he
As Hut as can be
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Kissinger = war criminal
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As in, “And now, for his demented insights into the war in Ukraine, we turn to war criminal Henry “Power is the Ultimate Aphrodisiac” Kissinger.”
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As then there’s Dubya, with whom Obama and Clinton love to pal around.
Frat bros for life.
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Based on past poems, it would proper to name SDP the Ovid of Covid.
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Kissinger is the perfect example of the neoliberal, murdering and oppressing the masses to maintain power over them. Notably he’s been publishing with tech CEOs lately.
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Yikes
I hope not
Ovid was banished by the emperor to the Roman outback never to return.
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Yikes
I hope not
Ovid was banished by the emperor to the Roman outback never to return.
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The way things are going, banishment might be the best option available.
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Kissinger has been publishing with tech CEOs”
Henry is also an expert on technology, which makes him a chick magnet (or maggot in Henry’s case.)
Tech is the great aphrodisiac.
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A chick maggot just like Jabba the Hut
If ever there was
A Jabba the Hut
Then Henry is he
As Hutty can be
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Sam Bankman-Fried is another chick maggot
Bill Gates yet another
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Being a “War criminal” does not disqualify you as an expert in the US
In fact, by many it is viewed positively. To them , It just means you have “resolve.”
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Tough guy. Amer. n. phrase. One who sends other people’s children to kill other people’s children for no good reason whatsoever.
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Sweden’s government decided to do the same thing these misguided, incompetent murderers and so-called experts suggested in the name of herd immunity.
“Sweden’s Deadly COVID Failure — The verdict is in on the nation’s light touch approach. More died. Herd immunity proved a mirage.”
“… Many Swedish infectious disease experts disagreed and called the gamble a reckless and uncontrolled medical experiment. Swedish media generally treated the critics like fools or cranks. …”
https://thetyee.ca/Analysis/2022/04/06/Sweden-Deadly-COVID-Failure/
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It’s this kind of stupidity that probably exposed my brother to COVID. Utah insisted on opening schools early on. And though masking was “required,” it was impossible to enforce. My brother is high risk and COVID nearly killed him. He has permanent heart damage. He’s in his 40s.
And don’t get me started on the number of my students with long COVID.
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TOW,
According to the CDC, Utah did relatively well on age adjusted death rates. In 2020 places like New York and New Jersey suffered the worst with 139.1 and 141.6 respectively, while Utah had 48.6 deaths per 100,000. This picture changed in 2021 when Utah’s death of 78.2 was only slightly better than New York’s death rate of 83.9 and worse than New Jersey’s death rate of 71.9. In 2021 the state with the worst death rate was Oklahoma at 158.8 and the best was Vermont at 29.5.
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Forgot the source: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/covid19_mortality_final/COVID19.htm
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We have a young population, which helps, we don’t have a really large senior population, and we’re pretty rural overall. . But that doesn’t negate the thousands who died and the tens of thousands who got it, with potentially life-altering long COVID, TE. And I know a lot of people, including several of my students, who dealt with long COVID and/ or had relatives die.not my idea of “well.”
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TOW,
The CDC figures are age adjusted. Rural is an issue, but if you check out the CDC website I linked to you will see that Utah did better than Wyoming. Perhaps Wyoming is less rural than Utah.
Thousands did not die of covid, it was at least a million in the US. World wide excess deaths were estimated to be 24 million. There was no policy that could eliminate this. The goal at the beginning of the pandemic was to flatten the curve in the US, which we succeed in doing. In the early days the chemistry department at SUNY Stony Brook was devoted to making oxygen for patients on ventilators. My university was clearing a dormitory next to our teaching hospital in anticipation that the facility and students of our health science schools would not be able to go home between shifts.
This turned out not to be necessary. Much worse outcomes were possible.
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Rest assured, TOW
No need to concern yourself further about Utah policy.
The resident covid expert* has finally (phew) arrived on the scene to allay your unwarranted fears
*and expert on education, math, economics , nuclear physics, engineering, rocket science and pretty much every other subject.
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And the so-called liberal media has completely embraced the false right wing narrative.
It was these anti-mask, pro-school reopening, anti-vaccine, spewers of “the virus was created in a lab by China to kill us good Americans” and “hydroxychloroquine” cures covid”, who were presenting unvetted random theories as fact.
But in typical right wing fashion, they accused scientists of doing what they were doing — presenting early theories as “certainties” when scientists did no such thing. But the problem is that the media mischaracterized a scientist saying “it is absolutely certain that the lab leak theory is unproven and so far there is more evidence that it wasn’t a lab leak than it was”, as if scientists were claiming a certainty that it could not possibly be a lab leak, although they did no such thing and CONTINUED TO INVESTIGATE THE SOURCE. Scientists were telling the truth during the very early months of the pandemic and explaining that what was absolutely certain was that the lab leak theory was still unproven with little evidence to support it yet, and the scientists had to do it because the right wing was politicizing the lab leak theory and was presenting it as a certainty, not as a theory which at the time had even less evidence to support it than the theory that it came from the market.
I checked how long it took before the public had answers as to what caused the 2009 h1n1 swine flu virus. It wasn’t until 2016 that a paper was published with what seems to be the likely origin. It didn’t take 7 years because of a cover up. It took that long because respectable scientists – unlike crank scientists and overhyped publicity craving economists with a serious history of being wrong that would have discredited a less privileged scholar (like Emily Oster) – don’t believe in misleading the public that they have all the facts at hand BEFORE they have all the facts at hand.
Unlike in 2009, these days we have hack scholars and scientists who have found it very career-enhancing to claim a certainty that doesn’t exist. They are no different than the folks who said “I did my own research” yet they are treated by the media as if they have the weight of copious evidence behind their certainty.
These days, scientists who say “I am certain this publicity hound hasn’t presented nearly enough convincing evidence to back up his claims that a theory is absolutely true” are accused falsely of saying that they are certain that another theory is true.
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Thousands of people are dying from Covid (actually the CDC appears to now be using the phrase “deaths involving Covid) each month.
Why are we doing in person school! Is life that cheap?? This is madness!
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FLERP!,
Are there refrigerator trucks storing hundreds of dead bodies? Are hospital beds full? Are hospital employees stretched so thin that they barely see their families? If your kid has excruciating stomach pain in the middle of the night, is the ER available?
If the answer is “no”, then that’s why we are doing in person school.
I have relatives who worked in hospitals treating patients during the worst of the pandemic. Your snark is typical of ignorant people who have no idea of their privilege. And unless you rode the subway and worked in a crowded office in the same room with at least 12 co-workers while schools were closed, then you are a hypocrite.
People are still dying of covid, but the health care system is not strained. Maybe it’s because of vaccines, because of the ease of getting paxlovid, because enough people have some immunity. I assume you are a relatively smart guy, so it mystifies why you like to pose as someone ignorant enough not to understand the major difference between then and now. Even if Covid still kills people.
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I know you won’t understand.
So having received my 5th or perhaps 6th shot and having a very mild case of Covid. In between , I have relaxed mask wearing. There is one observation I have made .
Retail clerks at the local supermarkets and shops are frequently wearing what you called useless. I suppose the workers many of them young ,have risk.
Even if the risk for children was smaller, like those retail clerks the risk to teachers exposed to 30 to over 100 children
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Responses here indicate that yes, life really is that cheap.
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Thank you, FLERP! This response reveals more about your motives and (lack of) interest in participating in a genuine discussion than any of my long posts challenging you ever could. I have no idea why you post here, but assume the reasons are similar to why the U. of Chicago student posted the email and address of a professor when he didn’t like the title of her class. As a kid, I recall thinking it was fun to provoke my siblings, but as an adult I find it more interesting to talk about things with them, even if we disagree.
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Joseph Biden said, “Well, the virus — look, it’s real simple. We have a pandemic for those who haven’t gotten a vaccination. It’s that basic, that simple. Ten thousand people have recently died; 9,950 of them, thereabouts, are people who hadn’t been vaccinated. This is a simple, basic proposition. If you’re vaccinated, you’re not going to be hospitalized, you’re not going to be in an ICU unit, and you are not going to die.”
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One of the problems is these “experts” from elite institutions get a pass from a lot of people because of the status of the institutions they are affiliated with. I haven’t checked out one my son sent me, who may be reputable but …
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And these statistics are useful to TOW to show how short sighted Utah policy decisions were?
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Yep, that’s how useful /s/ they are. Statistics aren’t people, except to TE and Josh.
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“The goal is to find the Truth of the World”
Jimmy Swaggart has spoken!
Repent, TOW!
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The goal is to find the truth of the world, not to reinforce existing thinking. I continue to hope that this blog is more than just an echo chamber.
TOW,
Is there any possible evidence that would convince you that your perceptions are wrong? If not, will you be joining the local MAGA group?
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The truth: Covid hit NY/NJ area early before we had treatment or vaccines. Utah was far from the initial outbreak. Their mistake was in thinking that they were somehow protected, which is why they eventually were dropping in disproportionately high numbers. The “truth” lies in how the stats reveal info that can inform future actions. Utah blew it.
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I continue to hope that TE will get over his DunningKrugeritis and not be a pompous ass
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But I realize it might be better to hope for something more realistic — like world peace, for example.
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So the”truth” that Utah chose to glean from those early stats was that they were safe? NY/NJ was drowning in bodies because we had no treatments. Masks and social distancing were it. I remember making cloth masks because there weren’t ant commercially available. Then we found out that we needed N95s! Utah just didn’t learn from the changes in policy. Of course the experts were all lying when they changed recommendations! I heard this in relation to the un debate vs the reading wars: “Dead children can’t read.” Seems to me we could change the last word to “learn” for this debate even if not as many children died. They certainly took it home to people who did.
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Spedktr,
Covid also hit hit New Jersey harder than Utah after there were treatments and vaccines. I really wish people would pay attention to the world as it actually exists rather than the ideologically comfortable world in which they hope to live.
After all, it still moves
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Back at you. Look at the situation and all its factors behind your statistics. You like to throw them around without interpretation, which makes them worthless.
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Now TE is parroting Galileo?
Ha ha ha ha ha
Awk! TE wants a cracker!
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Parrot or Duck?
TE wants a cracker
For parroting “It moves”
He really is a quacker
It’s all it really proves
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TE undoubtedly fashions himself as Galileo being persecuted by the Church (led by Pope Ravitch) for his heresy.
Who are we to disturb his delusion?
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TE-ileo TE-ilei
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TE seems perfectly confident in evaluating the relative “performance” of the different states on Covid.
But funny thing is, just a few years ago , he was claiming that we might need 10 or 20 years to evaluate the “performance “ of different countries.
Why the difference?
Consistency does not seem to be his forte.
Of course, his latter claim about needing 10 or 20 years was just complete bullshit and even at the time of the article , it was already clear that Sweden’s “performance” (eg, in terms of deaths per 100k) was abysmal in comparison to its Nordic neighbors.
And it did not take a genius to understand that the laize fair approach of Sweden’s epidemiologist (who supported the goal of herd immunity) was wrong-headed.
That TE is now lecturing others to “pay attention to the world as it exists rather than the ideologically comfortable world in which they hope to live “ is very funny indeed.
Alas, herd immunity did not come through for Sweden (and for TE) and it did not take even 5 years to see that. No surprise to anyone who was actually paying attention to the world as it exists.
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Speduktr
Of course you have to add population density and more importantly household density to your accurate description of the early Pandemic in NYC. They are a huge factor in those early Covid deaths in NY and NJ?
Don’t tell TE that NJ is essentially a NYC suburb. That is to say that the 6 largest cities in NJ, Newark, Jersey City, Paterson, Elizabeth, Lakewood, and Edison, and their respective suburbs are part of the NYC Metropolitan area. Those Cities are what makes NJ the most densely populated State in the Union. Not the farms in South Jersey.
The Immigrant population in places like Jersey City make it the most diverse city in the Nation.
Multi Generational families living in the same households or in close proximity, in densely populated cities is the elephant in the room the Right refuses to see, when they talk about places like Oklahoma or the sh-t hole state of Flori Duh.
Even within those Cities deaths varied widely from one community to the next. But they were almost always far higher in Communities where high family density existed. Mostly immigrant communities like Elmhurst /Woodside or Corona where dwelling patterns and low wage service sector jobs combined to drive high Covid infection and deaths. These workers were in contact with hundreds to thousands of people daily, in “essential jobs ” creating a toxic Covid stew early in the Pandemic. They brought the virus back to vulnerable family members in Multifamily dwelling units. This same dynamic applied to the Ultra Orthodox Jewish communities like Borough Park. It did not matter much that older parents did not live in the same apartment if they lived in the upper or lower half of a 2 family attached house. Or two flights up in an Apt building.
Sweden has the lowest household population density on the planet it should have been a great success story. Insane policy created a disaster far worse than its neighbors.
Death rates adjusted for age in Florida mask a dirty little secret. 64% of Florida’s elderly are widows or widowers living alone, many in gated communities , children and Grand Children a thousand miles away. They are the ultimate remote workers, the Pension and Social Security checks arrive by direct deposit.
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Joel,
There are many factors that one might consider. Population density might well matter, but some urbanized state like Utah (89.8 % of the population lives in urban areas, making it more urban than New York with only 87.4 % living in urban areas) did relatively well and some very rural states like West Virginia (44.6 % live in urban areas) did relatively worse.
Urbanization percentages from https://www2.census.gov/geo/docs/reference/ua/State_Urban_Rural_Pop_2020_2010.xlsx
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You cannot pick one statistic! Each state/county/town’s situation is and was ruled by a multitude of factors (as Joel pointed out) that contributed to how they fared. Perhaps we need to be more mindful of what a statistic isn’t telling us.
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But that’s what TE does. He started out with the CDC death stat which is adjusted for age but nothing else and when it was pointed out to TE that the rural vs urban factor might ALSO play a role, he skipped to my Lou to that stat.
“Rural is an issue, but if you check out the CDC website I linked to you will see that Utah did better than Wyoming. Perhaps Wyoming is less rural than Utah.”
He skips from one stat to another like a little girl playing hopscotch
TE is incapable of holding more than one thing in his head at any given time. Far too complicated for him.
Hardly incidentally, one key factor that has not been mentioned is the level of vaccination of the populace of the various states.
It obviously never occurred to TE in his comparison of Utah to Wyoming above that perhaps Utahs higher vaccination rate than Wyoming has somehow skewed the age adjusted death rates for the two states.
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This is truly hilarious: “Population density might well matter, but some urbanized state like Utah (89.8 % of the population lives in urban areas, making it more urban than New York with only 87.4 % living in urban areas)”
SDP, you and I have been to SLC. Is comparing its wide, relatively empty streets and few high rises the same kind of “urban” as NYC.
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Greg,
Good catch. I lived there for 15 years but it was so long ago that I had forgotten that it wasn’t Manhattan.
But to answer your question: SLC is exactly like NYC, except in every way.
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The entire comparison of Utah to other states actually misses TOW ‘s key point: that Utah could have done better if they had done certain things differently.
It would actually be irrational to deny as much and would also miss the opportunity to improve the chance of better outcomes in the next pandemic.
The fact is, every state could have done things differently that might have led to better outcomes overall.
To get into endless comparisons between states quoting this and that statistic completely misses the forest for the trees.
It might be great fun for economists but it does no one any real good.
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Speaking of Hiltzik, this: https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2023-07-03/how-mississippi-gamed-national-reading-test-to-produce-miracle-gains.
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C/m: the guide ate vs the reading wars
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Reblogged this on What's Gneiss for Education.
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Big difference between doctors wearing masks for open heart surgery etc and idiots wearing masks in cars and outside like morons. People still have fear. I was not wearing masks when shopping laughing and watching everyone with their masks on. Took a shot the government paid people to, gave away weed for, 99.5% survival. They tested humanity and boy many of you gave in like sheep you are.
I do not watch fox, there are thousands of these cases thousands
https://www.foxnews.com/sports/dominican-basketball-player-who-previously-blamed-covid-vaccine-for-rare-heart-condition-dies-of-heart-attack
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“the risk of myocarditis was 15 times higher in COVID-19 patients, regardless of vaccination status, compared to individuals who did not contract the virus”
Of course no amount of scientific data means anything to you.
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josh,
Did you get confused? You must be talking about the “thousands” of cases of young athletes who contracted Covid in the summer of 2020 – BEFORE the vaccine was available – and collapsed because of the rare heart condition that having Covid gave them?
“Florida forward Keyontae Johnson, who collapsed on the court during a game Dec. 12 at Florida State University, has been diagnosed with a heart inflammation that may be related to an earlier infection for COVID-19.
Following the collapse that left Johnson unresponsive, he was transferred last Monday from Tallahassee Memorial to UF Health in Gainesville, where an MRI on his heart led to a diagnosis of acute myocarditis…..
Johnson, the SEC’s preseason player of the year, is expected to be out for a minimum of three months and will likely miss the rest of the 2020-21 season……
Johnson tested positive for COVID-19 during the summer, along with several of his teammates.”
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NYC parent you sure that your are not confused at all seems you are. Athletes are dropping left and right with issues AFTER the vaccine, I hope you didn’t vaccinate your kids. If so, compromised their immune system. Cut it out there are literally thousandssssssss of people dropping dead , healthy people. From the vaccine!
https://nypost.com/2023/07/01/bodybuilder-jo-lindner-known-as-joesthetics-dead-at-30/
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Josh, I took the vaccine—three times— and boosters too! I feel fine.
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josh,
If you actually believe your own nonsense that “Athletes are dropping left and right with issues AFTER the vaccine”, why did you link to a NY Post story about an athlete who died because an aneurysm? Especially when the article quotes the athlete himself who shortly before his death said
“When I lost my gains because I went off everything for 1 year but then could not recover my own test levels so went back on trt,” he wrote, in part, referring to his testosterone replacement therapy.
“Trust me I tried to stop but be aware it might have long term effects for your life,” he continued. “Trt is a big commitment keep that in mind.”
josh, if you are reduced to citing athletes when you don’t know whether they were vaccinated, or were unvaccinated, or had covid, or were taking performance enhancing drugs, you must be desperate.
Why are you even here, at a blog where people trust doctors and science more than you and your friends do?
You obviously are used to your like minded peers who would definitely be convinced because some guy named josh linked to a post about a body builder and this josh guy says he knows he died from the covid vaccine.
You won’t find those people here, excepting trolling like you do. You must have a very, very sad life if you have to post here (assuming no one is paying you to do it.) Why not spend time with like minded folks who believe what some random guy named josh on the internet says and want to discuss it with you? None of us would waste our time trolling right wing sites posting links to someone who died young and lying to them that we know all these people died because they didn’t get the covid vaccine. We prefer to talk to people who believe in science, not random people on the internet named josh. But there are lots of sites that prefer to believe in random people named josh on the internet and not science. Posting here says more about you than about covid.
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” I do not watch Fox News”,followed by a link to Fox News. The Ivermectin did not work. The worms have consumed the little Grey Matter you ever had.
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Chauncey Gardener thinks. Or as close as he can get to it.
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https://www.eviemagazine.com/post/bodybuilder-and-author-doug-brignole-dies-months-after-getting-covid-vaccine
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/uk-news/tragedy-girl-18-dies-blood-23485810
tens of thousands, wake up!!!!
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The Republicans in Wisconsin have blocked a requirement for vaccines against meningitis for 7 year olds.
MADISON, Wis. (AP) — The Republican-controlled Wisconsin Legislature on June 7 voted to stop Democratic Gov. Tony Evers’ administration from requiring seventh graders to be vaccinated against meningitis.
The state Senate and Assembly, with all Republicans in support and Democrats against, voted to block the proposal. There is no current meningitis vaccination requirement for Wisconsin students.
The Legislature’s vote also makes it easier for parents to get an exemption from a chicken pox vaccine requirement that is in place for all K-6 students. Evers’ administration wanted to require parents seeking a chicken pox vaccination exemption to provide proof that their child has previously been infected.
https://t.co/PeqJm41cjn
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When will they block vaccines for measles, mumps, chickenpox, polio and tetanus?
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Those vaccines have been around 70 plus years and when you get the vaccine you do not get polio or chickenpox again. Yet, you get this bioweapon they call a vaccine and you can get covid over and over and spread it. In the 70’s and 80s kids needed 3-6 vaccines and now kids get 15-20 and we do not question like Deniro these vaccines are harmful cause autism etc????
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