Did you know that the Trump Cabinet has its own Bible teacher?
His name is Ralph Drollinger, and he is bigoted and hard of hearts.
He wrote recently that the COVID-19 pandemic is an expression of God’s wrath.
Why is a God angry? Gays, environmentalists, and other groups that Drollinger doesn’t like.
He obviously thinks he knows what God thinks.
And he thinks he is God’s spokesman on earth.
This is a combination of bigotry and stupidity.
Diane Ravitch's blog 
Trump’s Cabinet’s bible teacher is nuts like him.
On 4/19, more than a million U.S. citizens will be DEAD from covid19.
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There should be a training obstacle course set up for those that would like to enter the clergy. It should be based on Dante’s Mt. Purgatory. Each candidate has to undergo all the punishments at each level while climbing up the mountain. At the end of each level, there’d be a “pit crew” that includes 2 EMTs, a trainer, and a referee–to patch up physically, to give motivation, and to give an objective evaluation if the candidate can continue on.
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“obstacle course for clergy”
It would have to be retroactive. A religion that taught its congregants that babies are born with sin and have to be baptized or they would go to limbo and a church that wouldn’t let women defile the church by being behind the alter (which they helped pay for) existed in Diane’s lifetime and attracted worshippers , more than half of whom were women who brought their kids to those churches for indoctrination.
Not much prior to this decade, the Manhattan Declaration, was signed by leaders of the two major American religions. The political arms of the religions continue to politic for the document in 2020.
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These hard right religious zealots believe in a God that is lacking in empathy, favors the rich and connected and believes in mass punishment for the supposed sins of groups that the right wingers hate. Sort of like what the Nazis did in WWII; if one resistance fighter killed a Nazi officer, then the Nazis would wipe out a whole village, men, women and children, in retaliation.
As if Ralph Drollinger isn’t bad enough, there’s also Paula White-Cain. Paula White-Cain is a pastor (BS artist), author, televangelist (charlatan) and exponent of prosperity theology (greed is goodism). What could possibly go wrong in the Great Pandemic of 2020 with such lovely spiritual (sic) ghouls to the president.
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Yikes – please tell me this from SNL or NBC published their “April Fools” edition early. I guess the Cabinet Bible doesn’t have a 25th Amendment
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I’m sure he is staying inside though…
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Katherine Stewart has a chapter devoted to Ralph Drollinger in here wonderful new book Power Worshippers. I review it here https://tultican.com/2020/02/20/eye-opening-book-the-power-worshippers/
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Falwell’s Liberty University, the Trump University equivalent of Theology school, sent out notices telling faculty, staff, and students that they had to return to or stay on campus. Then, when the virus sweeps through the University, I suppose they will likewise blame this on those powerful gays and lesbians.
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Falwell now claims that a mere 10% of students are there [the campus is basically closed], & that students remaining on campus are internationals w/ noplace to go; &. that others who showed up went back home because “their friends weren’t there.” Meanwhile state & local govt are keeping a sharp eye on things– springing unannounced inspections/ surveilling. Falwell’s reckless behavior probably added to the spread to some degree, & certainly seems to be causing taxpayers extra funds & needless diversion of essential public staff.
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I’m so glad that the students ignored their insane University president!
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Bob Shepherd: Falwell falsely claimed that the media is overhyping the threat of COVID-19 specifically to hurt Trump and suggested that the virus is a bioweapon concocted by North Korea.
………..
But this goes against the belief that Kim Jong Un sent love letters to Trump. Trump and Kim ‘care for each other’ which is why Trump is worthy of the Nobel Peace Prize. SO much has been accomplished politically due to Trump’s overwhelmingly warm personality. /s
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Read two related stories this morning. One was about a church choir in Washington State. The choir director called rehearsal a few weeks back despite the pandemic (must have been listening to Trump). Now, four members are dead and a great many of them have symptoms. The second story was about how many churches in Florida and Louisiana were packed yesterday. Trump’s downplaying of the virus has spread virus-like through Trumplandia, and it’s killing people.
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If gays and lesbians are this powerful, why is Mar-a-lago still standing? Must be the Trump prayer force field around it.
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If Trump’s anti-environment policies continue for four more years, Mar-a-Lago will float away.
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Yes. I hear that entrepreneurs are already envisioning the dive trips they can arrange for visiting the former Mar-a-lago (such an appropriate name!) after the climate-change-caused sea-level rise.
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Please don’t pay attention to this guy. Remember that God put the rainbow in the sky as a reminder to you to be gay or lesbian.
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Yet another one-man counter-enlightenment project. Yeesh to this guy….
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“The COVID-19 pandemic is an expression of God’s wrath.”
This is the worst of anything that could be described as religion. God is love and beauty, not revenge and hatred. These zealots are spreading the vile that exists inside each of them.
I am thinking that Jesus was spreading the message of his father, God. I don’t remember Jesus saying that gays were an abomination nor that the environment should be destroyed so that God would be happy.
These people are just plain ignorant. It’s sickening that Trump’s cabinet is dumb enough to attend any of these disgusting meetings ‘to learn about God’. Ugh.
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It’s really shocking that the Cabinet and the president would take religious instruction from such a stupid, hateful man.
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Diane My guess is that it’s just a show anyway to keep his religious base on track for the election. CBK
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Washington Examiner, 3-13-2020, by Nicholas Rowan, quoting the President of Catholic Vote, “This is the most Catholic administration we’ve had in American history”.
Elsewhere in the article, “…a new campaign coalition, Catholics for Trump…” and,
William Barr spoke out against, “the growing ascendancy of secularism”.
and, “In 2016”, focus on votes from Catholics were secondary to evangelical votes but, in 2020, the effort has ramped up.
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In regards to Linda’s comments: I am beginning to believe the Catholic Church through the lack of action by its leadership is willing to capitulate as it did to Hitler and the Nazis in the 1920s and 1930s.The Catholic Church leadership seems to have a total disregard to Trump’s immorality, lack of ethics, racism, sexism, and bullying. Is basically supporting Trump in his ways that are normally not expected of Christians.
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moeone The Church is undergoing a set of crises, some as merely in the present, and some centuries old. What I resent here is the talk about it as if it were a single-minded (religious-right) monster in a Star-Wars movie.
For myself as a Catholic, I’d be happy if the Church’s ultra-conservative elements would (1) return to their Judeo-Christian roots and (2) remember that a “separation of church and state” is about freedom of religion; and that freedom of religion is about all religious faiths and organizations avoiding religious-political struggles about which religious group controls a totalitarian state . . . in other words, a return to religious wars.
We raised the Catholic question overtly back in Kennedy’s time; but it’s never really gone away.
Also, I understand the “drift” of power going on that Linda is talking about and (as above) I don’t and won’t defend it; but, again, her view is severely limited, overgeneralized, even hate-bating . . . it only reminds me of the similarly-corrosive and extreme views of the “other side” in today’s polemics–gets us nowhere. We need thoughtful dialectic, and not dogmatic extremes, repeated over and over again, in our discourse. CBK
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This Cabinet? This President? I bet those sessions are one notch above “locker room” jokes at the country club.
DeVos family contributed to candidates and groups backing conversion therapy. The Vice President ignored an AIDS crisis (and now (or was) in charge of the covid-19 crisis. And, the president knows his kids would be upset if he said what he really thinks.
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Moeone, thanks for your comment.
I am not a historian of the time periods but, the case has been made that the Catholic church had little choice but to capitulate during the Nazi regime. During Ireland’s great hunger, the case has been made that the Church sided with Koch-like business interests and preserved social order among the citizens in service to those interests.
Udi Greenberg makes the case (2018- Journal of the History of Ideas) that the tolerant Church of the 60’s and 70’s has been replaced by a Church that rejects modernism, pluralism and democracy and returns to its long history of conjoined power with the ruling class. Reading Jefferson’s quotes about religion highlights for us the forefathers’ recognition of the threat posed and their attempt to prevent it by codifying separation of church and state.
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Kennedy said he, “sees an America where no public official either requests or accepts instructions from the Pope”. Broadening the context, I presume today that he would substitute “religion” since the big money backers of the America Catholic church openly oppose Pope Francis, especially his concern for income inequality.
Kennedy was elected by the majority of Americans and they deemed his religion unrelated to the policies he would advocate for. The conjuring up of campaign attacks against Kennedy from 1960 didn’t fly during the recent SCOTUS justice confirmation.
CK’s insults are immaterial to an argument about well funded, well organized political activities by the USCCB and state Catholic Conferences that lead to election of Republicans.
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Linda Check your set of lenses . . . I was right the first time . . . you are impervious. CBK
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Or take religious instruction in the name of our govt– at all.
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A health crisis is an opportunity for bigoted religious folk to justify their prejudice. I can recall similar claims made during the HIV epidemic in the 80s. Some were claiming that gays were afflicted because they had incurred God’s wrath. It is mean spirited religious blather.
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Interesting in light of a drug developed for AIDS that may be used to fight COVID 19.
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Crisis brings out the worst in those of weak character.
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Reminder…. VP Pence is in the same religious boat as this fool, Trump, and his Cabinet.
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Yup. But I think that Pence actually believes this stuff, whereas Trump just pretends to. Several ex Trump staffers have written about his tendency to make fun of Pence’s religiosity behind his back.
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Bible lessons on government time….are there rules about this…never mind the message he is spreading
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The main problem is that there are lots of people out there who agree with this nonsense. This is using Christianity as a punishment instead of spreading love and kindness towards one another.
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In 2019, an evangelical leader explained why he wouldn’t sign the Manhattan Declaration which he criticized as an example of the Evangelical Catholic Together (ECT) movement.
“The document is concerned primarily with three very important Biblical and cultural issues: the sanctity of life, the meaning of marriage and the nature of religious liberty…I could never (agree that the two religions)… share a common faith and unified understanding of the gospel…”
So, which is more of a threat to democracy, two religious sects competing against each other for government resources and power or, the unified two, governing the U.S.?
Unified they are 40% of the population with a very committed voting demographic. The more organized of the two has political chapters in all of the states and a large contingent on the U.S. Supreme Court.
A strategy to thwart American theocracy by selecting a preferred religion seems dicey.
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Ignoring the Catholic vote is tantamount to the election of Trump in 2020- my opinion.
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Catholics now comprise 25% to 27% of the national vote, with over 68 million members today.
But, Pew Research Center reports, “Like Americans overall, U.S. Catholics are sharply divided by party”
Politicians have long pursued the “Catholic vote” – a potentially big prize, given that the nation’s roughly 51 million Catholic adults constitute the largest single religious institution in the United States. But while Catholics once were more likely to vote Democratic, they have never been monolithic politically. Today, Catholics are evenly split between the two major parties and are sharply polarized, much like the broader U.S. public.
Roughly equal shares of Catholic registered voters have identified with or leaned toward the Democratic and Republican parties in recent years (47% vs. 46%, respectively). And according to exit polls, nearly identical shares of Catholics voted for Democrats (50%) and Republicans (49%) in 2018 elections for the U.S. House of Representatives. White Catholics are more likely to vote Republican, while Hispanic Catholics overwhelmingly back Democrats.
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/01/24/like-americans-overall-u-s-catholics-are-sharply-divided-by-party/
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We’ll have Pew’s data after the election for review.
If there was money for researchers to analyze the messaging directed at Catholic voters, its focus, its validity… if there was money to craft and disseminate counter messaging…
I long for the prior time when religion stayed out of politics. Laws to prevent religion’s involvement have been side stepped by evangelical and Catholic hierarchies. The front burner policies they want are clear, rejection of gay marriage, elimination of abortion and pharmaceutical birth control, and denial of equal rights for women. And, they want government funding for religious schools. The two major American religions appear to support unfettered free markets and to reject democratic socialism.
If there was separation of church and state, I wouldn’t be able to identify their positions.
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Thanks for corrective facts, LL. I’ve tired of answering Linda’s 1-note song. Her oft-repeated alarm that “60% of Catholics voted for Trump” is only about white Catholics; totals were little changed from other prez elections [& white Catholics continue to abandon the church at a fast clip]. While I appreciate the updates on [predictable] hierarchical manipulations to take advantage of govt-supported school-privatization, I am not convinced of a dark RC conservative conspiracy threatening democracy. by the repetition of a small handful of cites.
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The pattern of assuming that political assessments from the coasts inform about the situations in regions like the midwest, is not new-
as example, Mich., Wis., Penn. in 2016
After the 2020 election, the data will tell us.
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Ralph Drollinger is not God. He is a false prophet.
Matthew 24:24
“For false Christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.”
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A lot of it is racism, not only towards Obama, but towards the fact that most black people support democrats, and do not support republicans. The racism is at a frightening, often carefully not acknowledged level. Much of the Christian religion is difficult to avoid supporting by republicans, which is why abortion is so important. It is the cover, the excuse to create the holier than thou aura, which allows them to support the death penalty, avoid helping the disadvantaged……and it is dominated by white men, who feel little responsibility to do much to help the children forcibly born into unfortunate circumstances. I have more respect for conservative atheists than I do for phony christians. At least they make an honest case for what they believe is necessary.
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I actually had a revelation from God myself and learned He created the TRUMP VIRUS (aka COVID-19) to rid America and the world of the Trump presidency. No longer can Trump claim a good economy as the sole basis for re-election, and we shall overcome his harmful policies, bigotry, and promotion of hate. Too much was sacrificed and accomplished in this world for Trump and his heretics to destroy it. Impeachment did not lead to the removal if this evil wannabe dictator, but God is good.
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Joe Nashville Love it. The beauty of it is that it has the same foundation with the claim that God made the virus to help Trump and hurt “the democrats”: NONE. CBK
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There are a few church “leaders” who have been on the news to say that, of course, they are keeping their churches open. Saying something like, “At this time of crisis, people should be with their G-d, in G-d’s house!” They laughed at the reporters’ ???–“Aren’t you afraid that your congregants will become ill/spread the virus?” One was a couple, & they burst into laughter.
I hope their church members will be as smart as the Liberty University students who hot-footed it off campus.
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I just read about a church in Louisiana that is holding services as usual. No social distancing. The church brings together 1100 people.
This from the Los Angeles Times:
“CENTRAL, La. — Pentecostal preacher Tony Spell didn’t just stand before his congregation on Sunday in defiance of the governor’s order to stay home: He leaped into the pews, paraded, hugged and laid hands on worshipers’ foreheads in prayer.
“We’re free people. We’re not going to be intimidated. We’re not going to cower,” the Rev. Spell said from the pulpit of Life Tabernacle Church in a suburb of Baton Rouge. “We’re not breaking any laws.”
Across Louisiana, the coronavirus has infected more than 3,500 people and led to 151 deaths as of Sunday, with one of the highest per-capita death rates in the country down the interstate in New Orleans. To limit its spread, Gov. John Bel Edwards banned gatherings of more than 50 people earlier this month and on March 22 issued a stay-at-home order.
“To comply, Catholic churches canceled Mass and switched to virtual services. Many Protestant churches did too. But some have continued to gather, with none drawing more attention than Life Tabernacle.”
In the same issue, I read about a church choir an hour from Seattle that had its regular practice. They practiced social distance.
“ MOUNT VERNON, Wash. — With the coronavirus quickly spreading in Washington state in early March, leaders of the Skagit Valley Chorale debated whether to go ahead with weekly rehearsal.
“The virus was already killing people in the Seattle area, about an hour’s drive to the south.
“But Skagit County hadn’t reported any cases, schools and businesses remained open, and prohibitions on large gatherings had yet to be announced.
“On March 6, Adam Burdick, the choir’s conductor, informed the 121 members in an email that amid the “stress and strain of concerns about the virus,” practice would proceed as scheduled at Mount Vernon Presbyterian Church.”
Of 60 members who showed up and rehearsed, 45 got the virus and two died.
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The Pastor of the River Church in Tampa, which had two large services yesterday, 3/29/20, was arrested today for violating the stay-at-home order that the country finally got around to issuing. He had told his parishioners that church as an “essential service” and asked them to come out on Sunday.
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Matthew 18:20
“For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.”
I think that means churches are not needed. I do not think anyone needs church leaders either.
Matthew 7:15-20
“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. …
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Oh–& I attended a wonderful Shabbat service on Zoom. One attendee even phoned in from Israel.
Am very much looking forward to a last study class we had missed (the Rabbi couldn’t hold the class because his wife was giving birth!) that will also be Zoomed.
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Compare the comment by Pope Francis with the one made by Ralph Drollinger who says COVID-19 is an expression of God’s wrath.
…………………………
Pope Francis
@Pontifex
We are one human family. Let us bring all hostilities to a
halt. May our joint fight against the #COVID-19
pandemic bring everyone to recognize the great need to
reinforce brotherly and sisterly bonds. #globalceasefire
@antonioguterres @UN
https://s2.washingtonpost.com/248ee6d/5e816edcfe1ff6038cecf811/Y2Fyb2xtYWxheXNpYUBnbWFpbC5jb20=/18/68/60e2e736e5e70b92939e7f8be79c811e
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Good. Hope he gets sued for negligence.
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Nearly a Dozen Liberty University Students Sick With Coronavirus Symptoms After Falwell Reopened Campus
Liberty University’s Jerry Falwell Jr. Gets Holy Hell As Students Fall Sick
Jerry Falwell Jr. last week partially reopened his Liberty University ― an evangelical Christian school in Lynchburg, Virginia ― despite the spread of the coronavirus.
Now, The New York Times reports that nearly a dozen students have symptoms that could suggest infection ― and Falwell is facing the wrath of both parents and critics.
One parent slammed the decision to reopen as “crazy, irresponsible and seems like a money grab.” Falwell, as the Times notes, fired back with a tweet calling that parent a “dummy.”
Falwell on Twitter said no students on campus are sick with coronavirus, and one off-campus tested positive “from local contacts in the community.” He also said the school was “embracing its responsibility to care for students instead of running away.”…
People on Twitter slammed Falwell for the opening the school and putting his students at risk ― with some suggesting that he face lawsuits or even criminal charges:…
Article: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/jerry-falwell-jr-slammed-coronavirus_n_5e8177d2c5b6cb9dc1a2caad?ncid=engmodushpmg00000006
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MAGA = Morons Are Governing America
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HA! Great.
Also, “Moscow’s Asset Governing America”
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Trump’s Secretary of Health and Human Services, Alex Azar, who leads decisions during this crisis, was the recipient of a 3-24-2020 letter co-signed by a secretariat of the US Conference of Catholic Bishops and the evangelicals’ Family Research Council. Azar is anti-abortion. He clerked for Scalia, and he was a bigPharma executive.
Writing about Azar, the National Catholic Register (2-22-2018) concluded, “As in the past, the Bishops’ evaluation of Azar’s agenda will be grounded in Catholic social teaching.”
The contrasts between Pope Francis’ views and that of prosperity Catholics are developed in the article.
What does theocracy look like?
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The son of Antonin Scalia is on Trump’s cabinet, as Secretary of Labor.
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Similar to Leonard Leo, who is stacking the courts with conservatives, Antonin Scalia’s children are 9 in number. Scalia’s son who is Trump’s Labor Secretary has 7 children.
A blog commenter reported that people are leaving the Catholic church. Rhetorically, ….why, after having built it into the political force it is and during a period when it is enjoying a reputation in media as apolitical unlike evangelicals?
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Linda writes: “A blog commenter reported that people are leaving the Catholic church. Rhetorically, …. why, after having built it into the political force it is and during a period when it is enjoying a reputation in media as apolitical unlike evangelicals?”
Post-rhetorical: People grow, change, and move around for many reasons; but my guess?: Probably, in some cases, because many Catholics are not the mindless followers you seem to think we are (as was evident in your comment about my call to Diane to question your systematic Catholic-bashing as a predictably-Catholic and female appeal to authority. Now THAT was insulting . . . and wrong).
The general rule in groups, however, is that, extremism can have its short-term day, but it is structurally self-defeating. That is, the farther right or left the group-center goes, the-more it turns into an unreasonable, dogmatic “faction;” and the-more its thoughtful/ reasonable group-members lose heart and their original impetus to join.
This point is made in one of the Federalist Papers (I believe 8 or 10?) where factional voices tend to wash out, in direct relation to how much exposure they get to the “sunlight” of open discourse. AND/OR, the-more unrelated groups have their “say,” the-more moderate voices rise from within a specific group, on the same principle.
With its long-term history, like the movement of extreme factions within Judaism or Islam, Catholicism has been a hard nut to crack, and the crises of the Church are similarly long-term. But crack it will–again, on principle. CBK
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John Maynard Keynes’ retort to the free market defense- “in the long run, we are all dead.”
Footnote-
1 million starved to death in a short period in Ireland.
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chances are, however, had the Irish been previously oppressed into nothing but working cogs making the English rich, they would have been kept minimally alive and forced back to work
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Linda “. . . starved to death in Ireland.”
In the short term, it’s people like you who help others become aware of problems that are the precursors of change–It doesn’t happen on its own.
If you’ll drop your defensiveness for a moment, and read my notes with a clear eye, you will grasp my above meaning in them. AGAIN, I think your zealotry (uncritical extremism), however, shoots your own good arguments in the foot.
BTW, even an atheist viewpoint, by definition, is fundamentally a religious one. The point is not the all persons in government, generally, will have a foundational viewpoint that has religious implications–they all do and will. We cannot replace that fact with some sort of nothingness.
The point is whether all understand and embrace their OATH to that beautiful U. S. Constitution, its inherent openness, and its tenets. That said, I think it dangerous to have a government that is completely or even mostly made of those from one-religion-only–no matter what that religious foundation may be . . . too easy to forget one’s Oath and to eliminate the dialectic that comes with other-voices.
And there it is again: Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. CBK
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BTW, addendum to my note about Ireland to Linda: That’s why people like Mitch McConnell (the resident stacker of the Courts) is so dangerous. To call Moscow Mitch anti-U.S. is not hyperbole. CBK
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A growing trend, which was new info. to me, may be of interest to the LBGT community and women of child-bearing ages and the women and men who love them. One out of 9 hospital beds in the U.S. are located in facilities that follow “Catholic teachings”. From 2001 to 2011, there was a 16% increase in the number. (The Guardian)
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Linda Does that mean that “Catholic hospitals” don’t allow gays to have sexual relations on hospital grounds? (I give up.) CBK
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(1) Savita Halappanovar (Wikipedia)
(2) Same sex marriage partners right to visit given limits to relatives only
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Between 2011 and 2016 Catholic hospitals grew another 6%- 1 in 6 hospital beds. Some implications are addressed at Governing.com (April 29, 2019) “How Might Public Hospital’s Ties to a Catholic Health Facility Affect Treatments?”
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The way Catholic Hospital across the United States are slowing merging and taking over secular hospital reminds me of what happened in the 17th century when the Catholic Church basically drove the Huguenots out of France. Or when Henry VIII decided that England would not me under the thumb of the Church. Once enough secular hospital have been taken over by the Church then the beliefs of the Church will be determine who get service or not based up on individual beliefs on abortion, gay rights, birth control, etc.
I think this is wrong. BTW. I am a Catholic and I know I will catch hell for this thoughts.
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Gene-
You may get a pass from the critics because you identified as a Catholic.
Jefferson lamented, as singular, the onslaught after he spoke against religion, likening the attackers to a swarm of buzzing bees about his head.
It’s refreshing to read your comment acknowledging the threat of the creep to theocracy.
Quoting Jefferson, “The clergy, by getting themselves established by law and in-grafted into the machine of government have been a formidable engine against the civil and religious rights of man.”
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Those that study history and stand up to help people recognize that history does repeat itself and what the consequences are for the future
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Gene-
At this site, I deduce the prevailing opinion is that the Catholic church has factions, some of whom are brilliant and have lofty morals/ethics (although by religious tenet all are sinners). The factions’ “diversity” render them equal in influence.
The opinion is that the upstart evangelicals are monolithic and exert religious influence in D.C. and capitols in isolation of the “factions” of other faiths.
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Catholic hospitals are I/6 th of the total sector and are growing steadily. 11-1-2019, “USCCB Support of Employment Discrimination”. The article cites an amicus brief and can be found at the Catholic Theological Ethics site.
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Christianity Offers No Answers About the Coronavirus. It’s Not Supposed To
BY N.T. WRIGHTUPDATED: MARCH 29, 2020 3:47 PM EDT | ORIGINALLY PUBLISHED: MARCH 29, 2020 8:00 AM EDT
N. T. Wright is the Professor of New Testament and Early Christianity at the University of St Andrews, a Senior Research Fellow at Wycliffe Hall, Oxford University and the author of over 80 books, including The New Testament in Its World.
…The mystery of the biblical story is that God also laments. Some Christians like to think of God as above all that, knowing everything, in charge of everything, calm and unaffected by the troubles in his world. That’s not the picture we get in the Bible.
God was grieved to his heart, Genesis declares, over the violent wickedness of his human creatures….
https://time.com/5808495/coronavirus-christianity/?utm_source=emailshare&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=email-share-article&utm_content=20200330
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Fox should be held accountable, just as Trump should be held accountable. However, there is a huge gap between what should happen and what does happen.
…………..
Fox News concerned about looming ‘legal bloodbath’ over its misleading coronavirus coverage: report
March 30, 2020
Fox News insiders are concerned that the network could face “potential legal action” from viewers over its misleading coverage of the new coronavirus, according to Vanity Fair’s Gabe Sherman, though experts say a “viable claim” against the network is unlikely.
Sherman, the author of the Fox News exposé “The Loudest Voice in the Room” who frequently covers the conservative network, told MSNBC on Sunday that “there’s a real concern inside the network that their early downplaying of the coronavirus actually exposes Fox News to potential legal action by viewers who maybe were misled and actually have died from this.”..
https://www.alternet.org/2020/03/fox-news-concerned-about-looming-legal-bloodbath-over-its-misleading-coronavirus-coverage-report/#.XoJTHl3aYhU.gmail
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carolmalaysia I’ll say this again: I think ALL of the real-news outlets and ALL legitimate journalists should do a FORMAL intervention of Fox News.
If Trump is in the business of killing the messenger (the real Press), and he is, . . . then Fox news is his go-to doer-fixer. CBK
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Some of these R wingers don’t learn. Other churches have done the same thing and the results were sick people. “Church is an essential business.”
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FLORIDA MEGACHURCH PASTOR ARRESTED AFTER FLOUTING ‘SAFER-AT-HOME’ ORDER WITH CROWDED SERVICES
MARCH 30, 2020 2:59 PM EDT
(TAMPA, Fla.) — Florida officials have arrested the pastor of a megachurch after detectives say he held two Sunday services with hundreds of people and violated a safer-at-home order put in place to limit the spread of the coronavirus.
According to jail records, Pastor Rodney Howard-Browne turned himself in to authorities Monday afternoon in Hernando County, where he lives. He was charged with unlawful assembly and violation of a public health emergency order. Bail was set at $500, according to the jail’s website…
The church has said it sanitized the building, and the pastor said on Twitter that the church is an essential business. He also attacked the media for “religious bigotry and hate.”..
https://time.com/5812654/florida-pastor-coronavirus-arrest-services/?utm_source=emailshare&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=email-share-article&utm_content=20200330
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I got this from my friend in Canada:
FACTS: Donald Trump is the first President in US history to simultaneously hold records for the biggest stock market drop, the highest national debt, the most convicted team members and the most pandemic infections in the world, all in his first term.
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Trump is so exhausting.
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None of this surprises me. What surprises me is that some many people are willing to stand by or support this fool. Who are the biggest fools. Trump? Or the ones that follow him?
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Did you catch where he said “God is just”? That’s one of the central concepts their belief is based upon. Once a congregation is convinced that everything God does is justified, then one only has to persuade others as to what God thinks to gain control.
It’s not that they are stupid. It’s the way they that gain control of the stupid.
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Thanks for your comment. The same religious people in the northeast who condemn southerners for voting against their own interests, join churches that work against their rights. And, they will see no connection between the two.
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Are you familiar with Jeff Sharlet who has exposed the religious right’s attempt to turn America into a theocracy. Below is an NPR interview where he identifies the 1930s group that was formed to undermine Roosevelt’s regulatory and social state by religious means.
That group now finds itself as one of the most powerful influencers in Washington that host the National Prayer Breakfast every year. It turns out that there is a collection of religious groups trying to turn America into a theocracy, and they have corporate backers.
https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=120746516
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David-
Yes, I’m familiar.
Is your perception similar to mine, main stream media studiously avoid linking Catholic leaders to the “religious right”, treating them as separate, with the Catholic church presumed to be relatively apolitical, distanced from the evangelicals’ religious right?
The argument made at this site is the Catholic church has many factions and that characteristic acts as an excuse to discount the power emanating from the hierarchy.
I am unable to discount the influence because of the success of the Bishops’ agenda in court appointments, in legislation, in Trump’s executive appointments, in increasing tax support for Catholic schools, the growth of institutions like Catholic hospitals, the wins at the state level in adoption agency discrimination against gay people (many of the agencies are Catholic) and, in elimination of abortion clinics.
Solely as an observational opinion not backed by my research, it appears to me that as Catholic liberals leave the church, the powerful in the church are doubling down in support of conservative U.S. policy and de facto Republican candidates. It’s speculated that the Knights of Columbus will do “heavy lifting” for Trump’s campaign and, the President of Catholic Vote endorses Trump. Catholic Vote posted an article praising Hungary’s Orban.
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TRUMP AGAIN ACCUSES HEALTH CARE WORKERS
For the second day in a row, President Donald Trump pushed groundless speculation that health care workers are stealing or squandering protective masks during the coronavirus pandemic. A reporter began to ask him in the Monday press briefing about remarks he made Sunday that masks may be “going out the back door.” Trump cut off the reporter, saying a “tremendous power in the business,” seemingly a supplier of masks, had backed up his notion. [HuffPost]
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Diane I have thought for awhile that, though taken in a broader context many of Linda’s posts are informative, they often remind me of how conspiracy theorists combine their un-tempered zealotry with some isolated facts (cherry picking) to spread fear. In this case, Catholics are out to take over the world.
That said, it’s not difficult to detect the deeper presence of a totalitarian consciousness in some religious persons and organizations. And the Catholic Church has been around a long time (centuries longer than evangelicals, but, of course, not as long as Judaism). And so, in our case, the struggle against that totalitarian presence is always in need of systematic temperance.
I call-up that Texas group of ministers (referred to here often) who clearly understand the right-relationship between (1) the fullness of their religious living and (2) the SECULAR government and institutions of our U. S. constitutional democracy, including public education.
My guess is that they also have a good working relationship with other religions . . . where similar (systematic) ecumenical movements are clearly evident in Catholicism as well as in most or perhaps even all religious groups today.
My point is that, we should always be aware of totalitarian (tribal) movements in any religious group (as Linda rightly suggests).
Rather than inspiring fear of a “Catholic takeover,” however, that point puts a needed light on the import of keeping secular and public institutions strong (as you do here and in your work)–because these institutions are the ones that bring TEMPER to that totalitarian consciousness–and in churches, including those of us here who are Catholic–in being aware of and involved in ecumenical movements within the Church–especially as a counter-point to those same totalitarian movements.
BTW, Jefferson rewrote the Bible according to his own development of religious consciousness, and he was no totalitarian. Neither he nor we must give up our search for religious meaning in order to live well in a secular/democracy–the development of ecumenical consciousness is one big key to that search.
The other is this: (and to Linda), we can transpose the religious language of “all are sinners” into the more secular language of humility; of not thinking we are the perfect ones,. . . which means, however we may fail at times, to be diligent about being open-minded, and the constant need for further development and knowledge that the movement of history presents to us–every day of our lives. (That might not square with some priests I know, but that’s how I take it.)
But to me, that’s the context of this aspect of the dialogue here. And the nuance is clear: Linda might not be aware of it, and though the facts are welcome, she regularly shows all of the markings of a dyed-in-the-wool conspiracy theorist. CBK
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“These 6 states have only 1 abortion clinic left”- CNN
“These 6 states show how the Supreme Court could end abortion without overruling Roe v. Wade” – ACLU
The state Catholic Conferences and USCCB identify at their sites their activities to influence legislation and the executive branch regarding reproductive rights.
Upon Ohio’s recent decision to again increase voucher expansion, which overwhelmingly provides tax revenue to Catholic schools, the chair of the state Senate education committee described it as making no sense.
If religion was having no impact on legislation or on the executive branch, it would provide proof of conspiracist folly. If the USCCB and state Catholic Conferences weren’t documenting what they’re doing, it would make proof more difficult for a conspiracist.
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Linda Conspiracy theorists commonly use facts out of their context. In part, it’s what it means to BE a conspiracy theorist.
Apparently you refused to read in my note that I (a) welcome facts in your notes but (b) point to the absence of context (or even knowledge of it) and (c) your (in almost every note) zealotry and fear-mongering about Catholics taking over the government. CBK
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Brennan Center for Justice- “The Judiciary is already dramatically more white, male, conservative and hostile to civil rights”
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They really believe that Trump is praying daily for them. No comment.
………………………………………………………..
Christian News Network: “I encourage you to use this time at home to get back into the Word, to read our Bibles and spend time with our families,” Lindell said at the White House Monday. “With our great president, vice president and this administration and all the great people in this country praying daily, we will get through this and get back to a place that’s stronger and safer than ever.”
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Franklin Graham is running t.v. ads in our area to drum up support for his brand of religion. He starts by saying ,”we are all sinners”. The ad puts him front and center and, he uses current fears as talking points.
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The, “we are all sinners”, rhetoric was in the Koch-linked Manhattan Institute article praising Catholic schools. For me, it was out of left field because the faiths I’m familiar with don’t speak in the language of “all being sinners”.
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Linda writes: “The, ‘we are all sinners’, rhetoric was in the Koch-linked Manhattan Institute article praising Catholic schools. For me, it was out of left field because the faiths I’m familiar with don’t speak in the language of ‘all being sinners’.”
I’ve been associated with, and attended, many protestant churches over the years (Methodist, Presbyterian, Baptist) and have heard that phrase many times over. It’s generally accepted in Christian parlance, though it has different meanings in different groups and their discourses.
Again, it’s more of a call to humility and the need for self-reflective/ development than . . . whatever you think it means? or are trying to convey through innuendo?
But again, I think you are killing your own message by your anti-Catholic zealotry. CBK
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It seems to me that Linda has been taking lessons from Franklin Graham who “. . . uses current fears as talking points.”
Another similarity: One of the worse pedagogical methods that the Catholic Church has been guilty of over the years is that of banging people over the heads with doctrine, as if repetition and a forced- feeding style will get parishioners to “understand.” CBK
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A sermon from a Church of Christ, “In the 42 verses where the word sinner appears only one, could possibly be construed to be referring to a Christian in his present state (1 Timothy 1:15). This is the verse cited by those who insist in constantly talking about what sinners they and other Christians are, implying that those who do not join them in self-debasement are prideful…”
In two decades of attendance at the Sunday school and sermons of one the three faiths identified, there was never once a teaching about sinners all.
One of the primary sects that posits sinners all, must not subscribe to the anti-pride meaning because they buy jewelry and home decor that boasts they are “blessed”.
Outside of the parochial world of American religion, there are religions that have no familiarity with the “we are all sinners” tenet.
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Carolmalaysia Here’s something from the Bible the Trump people can all reflect on:
From the English translation New King James Version
First Corinthians 13
“1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels,
but have not love
I am only a resounding gong or clanging cymbal.
2 And though I have the gift of prophecy,
and can understand all mysteries and all knowledge,
and though I have faith, that can move mountains,
but have not love,
I am nothing.
3 And though I give all I possess to the poor,
and surrender my body to the flames,
but have not love,
I gain nothing.
4 Love suffers long and is kind;
love does not envy;
love does not parade itself,
is not puffed up;
5 does not behave rudely,
does not seek its own, is not provoked,
thinks no evil;
6 does not rejoice in iniquity,
but rejoices in the truth;
7 bears all things,
believes all things,
hopes all things,
endures all things. . . .
8 Love never fails.
But whether there are prophecies,
they will fail;
whether there are tongues,
they will cease;
whether there is knowledge,
it will vanish away.
9 For we know in part
and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part
will be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child,
I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man,
I put away childish things.
12 For now we see in a mirror, darkly,
but then face to face.
Now I know in part,
but then I shall know
just as I also am known.
13 And now abide faith, hope, love,
these three;
but the greatest of these is love.”
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Thank you, CBK. Eautiful. I read it out loud.
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Diane . . . one of my favorites, and I return to it often, being the sinner that I am; and where being sinful, in part at least, means not to be loving enough in the sense that the verse speaks of.
If I may say this here to Linda: before we can critique such phrases as “we are all sinners,” first we should say what we mean, or what we think others mean, by “sin” and “sinner.” And this is the stuff of theological debate that has gone on . . . for centuries.
That said, I think Koch’s reference to it, which Linda writes about, is probably self-serving. CBK
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It is beautiful and expresses the necessity of recognizing love in our lives.
[It certainly beats believing that our great president is praying daily.]
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Linda I don’t see “we are all sinners” as “self-debasing.” It’s more of a reality check, against puffiness, or being self-serving; or, in our present context: all things Trump.
It’s also a way to keep one’s horizons open to new and perhaps more reflective and self-reflective thinking. Our own definitions of such language MAY NOT BE what others take it to be–we cannot assume so in every case or even in most cases . . . and in the openness that such thought inspires, we can find our own potential for growth.
One way to think of even babies as being “born in sin,” is to think of them as, of natural necessity, being born into a horizon that is only-the-self; and that human development is about growing to broaden those horizons to include the well-being of others and even an openness to the mysterious beyond.
The point is that the whole thing is not a science; but, like other forms of literature, it’s open to interpretation, . . . ironically, in terms of our own present horizon. Yours, then, (as self-debasing) may not be the only way to interpret that phrase. But then that’s what I meant earlier by being “tight as a tick.” At least that’s been my impression. CBK
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Self-debasing was part of an analysis from the Church of Christ posted quote. The quote was provided to correct, sinners all is “generally accepted parlance of Christianity.”
Ad hominem attacks laced with scripture about love….
“Tight as a tick” has no basis in fact so it is obviously your “impression”, what you feel,. etc. There’s no need on my account to try to soften the insult with equivocating language.
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Linda the point of generality is made in your Church of Christ note–theological differences abound and have for centuries. Let’s end this, however. Frankly, I am sorry for you for revealing the range of your ignorance about the depth and complexity of Church matters coupled with your lack of knowledge of it. CBK
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the grandiosity of the religious-the exclusive knowers of THE WORD-the one and only true church- ridicule of the beliefs of other faiths
Lincoln foretold the death of democracy in income inequality and Jefferson foretold the death of civil liberties in theocracy.
Trump, the nation’s ruler, bestows rewards on “God’s faithful” who install him in office.
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I’ve been reading that medical professionals are being threatened if they complain about the shortage of equipment or the number of dead. This is apparently a national issue.
Things are not going well in Illinois.
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Between the lines: U.S. medical personnel are being silenced for speaking out, Bloomberg reports.
Washington State: Ming Lin, an emergency room physician, “said he was told Friday he was out of a job because he’d given an interview … detailing what he believed to be inadequate protective equipment and testing.”
“In Chicago, a nurse was fired after emailing colleagues that she wanted to wear a more protective mask while on duty.”
“In New York, the NYU Langone Health system has warned employees they could be terminated if they talk to the media without authorization.”
………………………………………
CHICAGO — The number of COVID-19 cases in Illinois could exceed 19,000 a little more than a week from now, according to a new analysis by experts at Rush University Medical Center — but that’s far less than the 147,000 cases the state could have seen by then if residents had not retreated to their homes.
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Imagine all the job-related lawsuits after the pandemic is history. Some lawyer is probably already contacting the health care professionals that lost their jobs because they were being honest.
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In Aramaic, the language of Jesus, sin and debt had the same meaning. (“And forgive our debts as we forgive our debtors”) When Jesus was preaching about forgiveness of sin he was really talking about the Jewish tradition of Jubilee where debt is supposed to be forgiven every 50 years. It was implemented by Moses as part of the Sabbath and was meant to prevent wealth from concentrating and slavery from redeveloping, something that they had just escaped.
But that original message by the ordinary man named Jesus was hijacked at the Council of Lycium by Constantine 1700 years ago. After selecting only four Gospels that presented Jesus as divine to include in his Bible, he began a campaign to rid the empire of any evidence of the 80 some other stories about Jesus, some written by his deciples themselves.
Jesus’s primary message was that of wealth distribution, but Constantine wanted to concentrate wealth instead and needed to change that primary message to something else. So a new narrative was constructed saying that Adam and Eve brought us death because they sinned against God I the Garden of Eden and that we can have life after death if we simply believe that Jesus was the son of God and ask for forgiveness. (By simple logic, who wouldn’t turn an offer like that down.)
After all of the other (and probably more accurate) stories about Jesus were eliminated, Constantine’s new narrative became the perfect tool to manipulate the masses and built a theocracy that has ruled the western world for 17 centuries now. Waging religious war after religious war, all in the name of a pasifist.
Corruption within the church leading good people astray is still a big problem. The rich empower themselves because they feel entitled to buy the truth. It’s no wonder why Jesus chased the money makers out of the temple. Too bad they crusified him for simply revealing what they wanted to hide. It’s really sad how they’ve hijacked what he said. No wonder things keep getting worse.
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David Phillips: Thank you for the information. I’d love to read what else Jesus had to say. Manipulation by church leaders to present their cause isn’t representing the truth.
“Waging religious war after religious war, all in the name of a pasifist.” I’ve never understood how religions can justify killing and destruction of whole cultures to ‘spread the word of God’. That’s as rotten as the US that claims justification for killing because we have to spread democracy.
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Justification for oil profits….
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I dropped out of religion and migrated to Canada over that pasifist issue. Despite constantly talking about following Jesus, the so called “Christians” have been the most eager to go to war in our society. I’ve finally come to the conclusion that Jesus is just their cover story and the very “wolves in sheep’s clothing” Jesus warned us about.
Their delusional narrative allowed the conquestidores to ravage the native Americans and their lands while saying it was “God’s will” to justify their deeds, at least to themselves. A narrative still alive and well todayin their current bloody objective to create a “Greater Isreal” that is to stretch from Nile to the Euphrates rivers (everywhere that Abraham walked).
The best place to look for what Jesus was really saying is with the Gnostic Gospels. In the book of Thomas Jesus is a metaphor to get one to realize that our consciousness is the energy part of our existence that doesn’t die in this material world. In the book of Mary she’s the leader of a women’s liberation movement. The narrative that Mary was a prostitute was fabricated by the male dominated church to discredit her and her movement.
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There were several Marys in Jesus’s life.
The name Mary was considerably common in Jesus’ day, so it can be easy to confuse all those Mary’s running through the pages of your New Testament. The name Mary appears in the NASB translation in 57 verses. There are six different women named Mary in the Bible.
Mary, the Mother of Jesus
Little is known about Mary’s background, but we know she was of the tribe of Judah and the line of David (Luke 1:32). She lived in Nazareth before her marriage. She became the wife of Joseph and the mother of Jesus.
Mary of Magdalene
Mary Magdalene was from the town of Magdala, on the western shore of Lake Tiberius. She was apparently wealthy and one of the women who financially supported Jesus’ earthly ministry (Luke 8:3). She was healed of demon possession, and in her gratitude she followed Jesus wholeheartedly the rest of her days.
Mary of Bethany
Mary the wife of Clopas
We see Mary of Clopas at the foot of the cross (John 19:25) in the company of Mary the mother of Jesus and Mary Magdalene.
Mary, the Mother of Mark.
Mary was another one of the women who supported Jesus by supplying a meeting place and continued to supply a meeting place after His resurrection
https://www.christianity.com/wiki/people/how-many-mary-s-are-in-the-bible-who-were-they.html
I don’t think the Bible names the prostitute JC saved from being stoned.
John 8:1-59
But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. Early in the morning he came again to the temple. All the people came to him, and he sat down and taught them. The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery, and placing her in the midst they said to him, “Teacher, this woman has been caught in the act of adultery. Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. So what do you say?” …
John 8:7
And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.”
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Lloyd,
Thanks for your interest in this thread and your enthusiasm on this site in general. I’ve followed what you have to say for several years now because you have so much to reveal.
All of these things you quote are from the book that Constantine constructed using only four highly cherry picked stories written decades after Jesus’s death.
I’m talking about the Gnostic book of Mary (I suppose Magdalene), one of 80 Gnostic stories about Jesus that Constantine chose to exclude from his Bible even though some of them were written by the deciples themselves. Constantine obviously left a lot of things out in his campaign to rewrite the history of Jesus and didn’t want us to discover his deception considering the effort he took to eliminate all of the Gnostic Gospels from the entire empire.
I’m looking for those parts that Constantine left out. You’re not going to find that in the Bible that he designed to hide those truths.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Mary
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Lloyd,
Thanks for your interest in this thread and your enthusiasm on this site in general. I’ve followed what you have to say for several years now because you have so much to reveal.
All of these things you quote are from the book that Constantine constructed using only four highly cherry picked stories written decades after Jesus’s death.
I’m talking about the Gnostic book of Mary (I suppose Magdalene), one of 80 Gnostic stories about Jesus that Constantine chose to exclude from his Bible even though some of them were written by the deciples themselves. Constantine obviously left a lot of things out in his campaign to rewrite the history of Jesus and didn’t want us to discover his deception considering the effort he took to eliminate all of the Gnostic Gospels from the entire empire.
I’m looking for those parts that Constantine left out. You’re not going to find that in the Bible that he designed to hide those truths.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Mary
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I’m aware of the council of Nicaea in AD 325 and that most if not all of the New Testament was written decades after Christ was gone. I had a copy of the Aprocrypha that includes the books that were banned from the Bible by the Council of Nicaea. I gave that copy to a born again Christian I knew who did not know much about what the approved Bible actually says let alone the history of the Bible or Christianity, and she said she was afraid if she read the Aprocrypha, she’d stop believing in God.
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Lloyd,
Thanks for correcting my misprint dealing with the council of Nicaea, I should checked that better.
Also thanks for telling me about the Aprocrypha, I’ll look into it.
It’s amazing the power of stories and what we want to believe as opposed to the realities we face. I’m not surprised that the other person didn’t want to view it. It’s a heavy topic to approach. Any suggestions?
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Unless a person is openminded and willing to learn more, there is no way to teach them anything. A closed mind is the same as a cement wall. Ever try debating a cement wall? The result is the same as a closed mind.
Regarding Mary Magdalenes Gospels, I read that they were found in a vase and were written in Greek. They were also carbon dated and were
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/who-was-mary-magdalene-119565482/
As a public school teacher for thirty years, I wanted to know how memory works and use what I learned to plan the lessons I taught. I discovered that our memories and flawed at best.
“It will help to remember how the story that includes them all came to be written. The four Gospels are not eyewitness accounts. They were written 35 to 65 years after Jesus’ death, a jelling of separate oral traditions that had taken form in dispersed Christian communities. Jesus died in about the year a.d. 30. The Gospels of Mark, Matthew and Luke date to about 65 to 85, and have sources and themes in common. The Gospel of John was composed around 90 to 95 and is distinct. So when we read about Mary Magdalene in each of the Gospels, as when we read about Jesus, what we are getting is not history but memory—memory shaped by time, by shades of emphasis and by efforts to make distinctive theological points. And already, even in that early period—as is evident when the varied accounts are measured against each other—the memory is blurred.” – Smithsonian
The next factor to consider is what was lost through translation from one language to another.
After the Babylonians conquered Judah in 602-586 BC, they destroyed every copy of the Torah they could find and scattered the Jewish people.
It wasn’t until after Alexander The Great died several centuries later, and Ptolemy I Soter (366 – 283 BC) – became the ruler of Egypt that the Old Testament was rewritten from memory in Egypt. Ptolemy was one of Alexander’s general and when he built the Library of Alexandria, he wanted this library to be a depository of literature and history for the human race. To bring back the religious writings of the Jewish people, he enlisted as many rabies as he could find and they went to work from memory and wrote everything down in Greek. What was lost in translation?
The original texts that had been lost were mainly written in Biblical Hebrew, with some portions (notably in Daniel and Ezra) in Biblical Aramaic. Biblical Hebrew, sometimes called Classical Hebrew, is an archaic form of the Hebrew language. The very first translation of the Hebrew Bible was into Greek probably became of Ptolemy.
https://www.britannica.com/biography/Ptolemy-I-Soter
The Gospel of Mary Magdalene was a translation. If the copy that was found in the late-nineteen century had been written by her, it would have been in an archaic form of the Hebrew language. The copy that was discovered in the 19th century was in Greek and even this copy was missing some pages from Mary’s Gospel. Click the link to learn more.
http://gnosis.org/library/marygosp.htm
Then there is this little known possibility. That Jesus did not die and rise from the dead and Mary Magdalene was more than just a follower but his lover.
“The idea that Jesus(as) traveled to India and is buried in the Rozabal, challenges the commonly held belief among Christians and Muslims that Jesus(as) rose to heaven.”
https://www.reviewofreligions.org/6115/tracing-the-post-crucifixion-footsteps-of-jesus-christas/
Then there is another interesting fact: When witnesses claimed Jesus during the crucifixion asked God to “forgive them for they do not know what they are doing” and he didn’t use the word God but used Father, it is not well known that all the Jews, even today many still do, referred to God as the Father. Does that mean if Christ called God “Father” instead of God, then God was not his biological father?
“The Father metaphor is used more often in Second Temple literature than early rabbinic texts (e.g., Mishnah and midrash). Nonetheless, Father is used in early rabbinic prayers, presumably as an unbroken tradition since ancient Israel. (Hayward 160f. in The Divine Father)”
https://www.quora.com/Do-Jews-call-God-Father-How-has-this-tradition-changed-throughout-history
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Thanks for sharing your research. Hardening people’s hatred seems to be the name of their game, at least that’s what Karl Rove used to brag about. But that’s apparently how they win, by controlling the narrative to manipulate the facts.
Remember when Karl singer ended his Cosmos series with a warning that we should never allow scientific knowledge to be destroyed again using Hypatia and the final destruction of the Library of Alexandria as his example? That’s not the only time either. History is filled with examples of the religious nuts killing out the educated class (today’s elites) to take over and sending humanity into another 1,000 dark age.
I see what you’re saying about there’s nothing much that we can say, but I see a danger in staying quiet and letting them control the narrative, which seems to be where most of the ongoing battle takes place.
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Oh, I seldom stay quiet when faced with the cement wall of ignorance that Trumpty Dumpty and his deplorable followers represent.
But, when I respond with a comment, I do not address my comment to the “wall” but to the readers that might read what I have to say as an argument to ignorance.
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The info. provided by David and Lloyd provoked a question. Historically, is there a religion/denomination (or more than one) that has been credited with debasing women more than the others?
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Hello Linda: I have a book that gives hundreds of examples of the, as you say “debasing” of women. That’s a complex issue about women’s roles in history (lots written about that), but one example that stood out in the book was the account of a coin with an impression in it that showed a woman holding a broom.
If it’s what I think–that you are after the Catholics again–that coin was in evidence centuries before the Catholics or Christianity even came on the historical scene. It’s a complex CULTURAL issue–woman’s debasement–that includes the questions of religions of every strip down through the ages.
Indeed, the Catholic religion is famous for its stance towards women–and I am not happy myself with their inability to change in that, and many other issues, and where the need for change is evident.
But I also know that my or your ignorance of history cannot change it. CBK
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Addressed to any reader and none in particular-
Are there faiths that limit redemption to acknowledgement of guilt and/ or redress?
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Pondering for answer without success-
If a coin is found of a man (possibly a rendering of a shopkeep) who is using a broom, what is its cultural significance to the question of how religious authority has historically assigned him position or valued him?
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Thanks for describing the history.
BTW- if you anticipate “catching hell” for the comment as predicted by Gene earlier in the thread, it appears to be a less likely outcome for male commenters.
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Not one bit afraid of the imaginary hell that is used reduce our human understanding to the reptilian and tribal brain level where everything is either black or white, friend or foe, no room for higher level feeling or reasoning.
Very afraid of the living hell we are about to leave to our descendants and the “Christians” objective to force humanity along a self destructive path.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/01/evangelicals-are-anticipating-the-end-of-the-world-and-trump-is-listening/
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I would like to revise my statement above to blame the apocalyptic Christians who intentionally steer humanity towards doom.
I think that he vast majority of Christians are good hearted with the best intentions. It just seems like they are being misled by the very money minded people that Jesus chased out of the temple.
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Imagine putting all the apocalyptic Christians in a stadium with all the fundamentalist Islamic terrorists from al Qaeda, ISIS, the Taliban et. Lock them inside with just enough food for three months and then return in six months to see if anyone survived.
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Most of these groups have been calling for the end for thousands of years, but yet they are still believed.
The problem is, they may just drag down the rest of us this time. With climate change we’re already on the brink and they seem very eager to take us there.
Hoping and waiting for them to kill each other out may not work this time. But what’s to be done???? I’m all ears.
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Unless many rises up to stop them, there is next to nothing one or a few can do. For decades, the crazies have been programmed and organized with a central leadership of wealthy, powerful crazies just like them.
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David-
In light of the 4th paragraph of the linked Mother Jones story, has the article’s author written about Catholic influence in Trump’s administration?
The author seems familiar with evangelicals who surround Trump. The story that would break new ground is the success of the Evangelical and Catholic Together movement playing out in D.C. that allows evangelical goals to be met by the President.
Dan McGahn, William Barr and ALEC (founded by Catholic, Paul Weyrich) are closely associated with the President and, there’s Leonard Leo playing his role in court appointments.
Catholic Vote praised Hungary’s Orban. The President of Catholic Vote anticipates that in 2020 Catholic voters will move up from the second tier, after evangelicals, in electing Trump.
Does Mother Jones write about the spread of a Catholic school chain into 17 states (a different design than the schools for the wealthy).
The schools are receiving more than $6,000 per student in tax money in some states. Which media describe the political activities of the state Catholic Conferences, almost all with male directors?
I’ll speculate here that we’ll read the story after its too late to prevent further encroachment e.g. after Espinosa v. Montana. BTW- The US Conference of Catholic Bishops submitted an amicus brief for Espinosa.
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A Ravitch blog post, 2-2-2020, “Georgians…”, focuses on a faction of evangelicals and their Corona virus response. In that thread, I reference Wikipedia’s entry for the organization, Evangelicals and Catholics Together. Time magazine’s interesting turn of phrase relating to theoconservatism’s influence on the actions of elected government is referenced- “Bushism made Catholic”.
It’s an important part of U.S. political history- the rise of theocracy.
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I know this is going to seem way of base from this discussion but what came to mind immediately after reading David Phillips information is that the very same thing has happened to the United States Constitution. Over time certain factions, too many to mention, have tried and been successful in changing and molding the Constitution into something the Founding Fathers never intended. Seems to me, like most of the religions of the world, that a few have changed the very basic concept of “We the People” to “We the Few”. I often wonder how long the Constitution will stand as long as “We the People” allow the “We the Few” to succeed. Part of the “We the Few” includes the majority of the religions in this country.
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The best example of theocracy creeping in to replace our democracy is with the phase “In God We Trust”. It was first printed on coin during the Civil War by those thought that the United States was supposed to be a theocracy to begin with.
The push for America to become a theocracy was rekindled in the 1950s when the phase was printed on the dollar bill. It came with a propaganda campaign to demonize communism, government in general, and the very social minded people that Jesus encouraged us to be.
“In God We Trust” has since spread from the dollar bill and onto police cars and courthouses across the nation. The theocrates next target is to place the phrase on schools.
Kevin Kruse, the author of One Nation Under God is another good source for exposing what the theocrates are up to
https://www.npr.org/2015/03/30/396365659/how-one-nation-didnt-become-under-god-until-the-50s-religious-revival
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David Philips You say that in Aramaic “sin and debt have the same meaning.” But in your note, aren’t you assuming that “debt” is restricted to the financial kind?
Even though I think the text supports (as you suggest) that financial debt is a part of sin, from Jesus’ other teachings, I doubt that, for Jesus and in his time, it is restricted to that.
Most probably, besides being in a different language, the meaning at that time was less differentiated (more wholistic) and includes moral and spiritual debt also.
Whereas, in our time (we are more differentiated in our languages) other forms of debt are commonly and tacitly omitted. Debt, as you assume in your note, commonly is thought of first in financial terms; though at times we also say “I owe this person . . . ” or “I am indebted to you for . . . .”
These are huge theological, historical, and cultural issues, however, where a blogsite is not exactly conducive to the serious study that they require to gain anything but a cursory understanding of them. Nevertheless, it’s a good pointer to further study for those inclined to do so. On that score, I for one appreciate your input. CBK
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Part 1 of the Zeitgeist exposes the “wheat from the chaff” the best.
It turns out that about 2/3rds of the Jesus story is actually the same as the Egyptian God Horus story that’s 3000 years older. Born on December 25th of a virgin and the son of God, performing medical miracles, died on a cross and was resurrected 3 day later. The story itself is 5000 years old. Just the name of the main character has changed over time. Started out with the name of Horus, had evolved to the name of Mithra by the Roman Empire, and is now accredited to Jesus.
The remaining third of the story reveals what Jesus was really preaching, the redistribution of wealth according to the Jewish tradition of Jubilee. It wasn’t based upon the western concept of getting ahead. It’s about not leaving anyone behind. It’s not about being money mind like our current culture demands. It’s about being social minded like capitalist started demonizing in the 1950s.
To me, what Jesus was really saying is best captured with the concept of Sabbath Economics which is based on the philosophy of “there is great abundance, if we only take what we need”
http://www.sabbatheconomics.org/Sabbath_Economics_Collaborative/Home.html
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Instead of social justice, you’ll find the Koch and Rex Sinquefield centers for social Darwinism at Catholic universities i.e. St. Louis University and Catholic University of America The Board of Trustees for St. Louis University should be shocking.
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Like the Lord’s Prayer reveals, the pathway to “On Earth as it is in Heaven” is through “forgiving our debts as we forgive our debtors.”
The narrative that we go to heaven or hell based upon our belief in a divine Jesus is a distraction and was invented by the money minded to keep us from realizing what Jesus really said about what should be done with their wealth.
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“Debts” has the substitution,” trespassers”, in some Christian prayers.
It appears the word has so many meanings, it may be easier to reach agreement on what it doesn’t mean.
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As it turns out, debt forgiveness was fairly common in the ancient world, especially when there was a change in leadership. Think, “I love the new king, he forgave all the debts that I owed his father.” It was a way to gain favor with the public.
Another good example is Solon, who is credited with the rise classical Greece by forgiving debts and freeing slaves. Jesus was preaching the same debt forgiveness message, but 600 years later.
https://www.cnbc.com/id/43272710
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So much for any decent accountability from fraud in the $500 billion in corporate pandemic aid or $2 trillion in coronavirus relief. Corruptness reigns in this administration.
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Trump to Fire Intelligence Watchdog Who Had Key Role in Ukraine Complaint
April 3, 2020
The president notified lawmakers late on Friday, saying he had lost confidence in the inspector general for the intelligence community.
President Trump is firing the intelligence community inspector general whose insistence on telling lawmakers about a whistle-blower complaint about his dealings with Ukraine triggered impeachment proceedings last fall, the president told lawmakers in a letter late Friday.
The move came as Mr. Trump announced his intent to name a White House aide as the independent watchdog for $500 billion in corporate pandemic aid and notified Congress of other nominees to inspector general positions, including one that would effectively oust the newly named chairman of a panel to oversee how the government spends $2 trillion in coronavirus relief.
The slew of late-night announcements, coming as the world’s attention is gripped by the coronavirus pandemic, raised the specter of a White House power play over the community of inspectors general, independent officials whose mission is to root out waste, fraud and abuse within the government.
Mr. Trump is ousting the intelligence community inspector general, Michael K. Atkinson, because he lost confidence in him, the president wrote in a letter to leaders of the two congressional intelligence committees. He gave no further explanation…
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Opinion | Sean Hannity wants to rewrite history on Fox’s coronavirus coverage. He can’t.Apr 3, 2020
The Fox News personality is reframing his pandemic coverage as consistent and serious, when in reality, he has been so irresponsible that he should be off the air, says Post media critic Erik Wemple.
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carolmalaysia Thanks for the reference–it does my heart good to hear of press professionals finally holding other press (loosely termed in this case) to account for their irresponsible actions. CBK
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You can guess who the non-essential WH Coronavirus Task Force member is that needs to be sent home immediately.
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Fauci Urges Non-Essential Worker to Go Home Satire by Andy Borowitz
WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)—Dr. Anthony Fauci has urged a non-essential employee of the White House Coronavirus Task Force to go home immediately, Fauci confirmed on Friday.
Speaking to reporters, the esteemed virologist said that he made the decision to expel the worker for “the health and safety of others.”
“He said that he felt fine coming to work every day,” Fauci said. “I told him, ‘You may feel fine, but by coming into work you are endangering the lives of countless others.’ ”…
https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/fauci-urges-non-essential-worker-to-go-home?utm_source=onsite-share&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=onsite-share&utm_brand=the-new-yorker
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An ecumenical group could use Covid 19 to promote life. They could publicly criticize Trump’s unwillingness to issue a national stay-at- home order. They could publicly announce it’s wrong to have states bidding against each other for life-giving respirators.
I assume they’ll do that, now, that they completed and submitted their Covid 19 excuse to ban abortions (sarcasm).
We can rest assured that the churches’ factions (the social justice ones without money) will have the nation’s back and speak out demanding religious authority for the Covid life saving measures rejected by Trump and they will do it with the same vehemence they have been anti-abortion.
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I am appalled that Trump said on national TV that everyone should use a face mask, but he won’t do it.
Isn’t he supposed to model good behavior? Of course not, he can’t do that.
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If you are waiting for Trump to be a “model of good behavior” then I suggest that hell will freeze over first.
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This is one barbaric way to get rid of church goers.
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The Hill:
Religious groups battle orders to close services
Several places of worship across the country are holding religious services for their congregations, and some are directly challenging state and local stay-at-home orders amid the coronavirus pandemic.
Most of the country is under a stay-at-home order, but a few of the 38 states that have issued such statewide restrictions have designated religious services as “essential,” which allows people to gather in larger groups to worship.
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They are making the right decision if they want to go to heaven sooner rather than later.
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Think of it another way. I have read that the highest death estimate might reach 10% to 20% for really carless segments of the population.
So, if one million faux Christians that “trust in God” goes to church, catches the virus, gets sick and 80 to 90 percent recover, the survivers will think they were protected by God and the rest died because they were sinners and deserved it.
Trump’s deplorable followers are capable of justifying anything.
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There is a simple truth contained in scripture – it isn’t pleasant for many but it does make it very clear when God acts it will be against all humanity not just certain groups. The scriptures make it very clear that people will talk a great deal of rubbish because they haven’t got a clue but want others to follow them.
Blame it on who you like but the reality is COVID19 is just more evidence of how little we know about the world we live in.
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False prophets like Ralph Drollinger are always wrong when they interpret scripture to fit their biases and/or hate. The odds favor that the pandemic is God’s anger at Donald Trump and the people that support Donald Trump, like Drollinger. After all, they are the ones that are mostly ignoring the dangers of COVID-19 and doing little or nothing to deal with the crises but pump out endless lies and throw up road-blocks to stop rational attempts to save lives.
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When did we allow the clowns to take over the circus?
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Ralph Drollinger is right, God is angry. She is very angry, but her anger is not for gays, environmentalists, and anyone else the False Prophet Drollinger doesn’t like.
God is angry at Donald Trump, anyone that voted for him in 2016 that still plans to vote for him in 2020, and last but not least, God is super angry at Putin for helping Trump beat Hillary. That is why Putin bungled Russia’s reaction to the virus, and it is running wild there, too.
After all, God is mother nature, too. That means God is a woman and She wanted Hillary to be the first woman president of the U.S.
To punish Trump and his deplorable, forever-Trump supporters, God sent a plague called COVID-19, knowing Trump would politicize it, refuse to wear a mask, and order as many GOP governors to do the same thing, to ignore the virus and let it run rampant throughout the country killing as many Americans as possible with higher rates of deaths in GOP controlled states that complied with Trump’s orders.
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