Someone smarter than me will have to figure out why the Republican Party is intent on inflicting pain on college students, graduate students, and higher education. Don’t they know that our economy depends on having an educated populace? Don’t they know that successful societies invest in generating new knowledge?
Politico reports about the effects of the tax bill on higher education:
HIGHER ED GROUPS TRYING TO STOP A ‘SPEEDING TRAIN’: With the GOP’s tax reform efforts moving swiftly along, higher education groups are stepping up their efforts to persuade lawmakers to strip the plans of provisions they say would make college more expensive, such as a plan in the House bill to scrap deductions on student loan interest and tax as income tuition waivers for graduate students. The Senate is expected to vote on its plan as soon as today. “It’s a speeding train,” said Steven Bloom, director of government relations at the American Council on Education, the leading higher education lobbying group.
– Bloom said higher education is on high alert and will continue its campaign by writing letters, calling members of Congress and holding rallies and protests. “We have to keep running right through the finish line, and that’s what we’ll do.”
– Senate Republicans’ work on their massive tax overhaul will continue today. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell has said the next vote in the tax debate will come at 11 a.m.
– Bloom said he is “cautiously optimistic” that one of the biggest concerns among higher education leaders won’t make it into the final bill: The House’s plan to tax as income tuition waivers for graduate students working as teaching and research assistants. Rep. Kevin Brady (R-Tex.), the Ways and Means chairman, said on the House floor earlier this month that he has “a keen interest in this issue” and that he is open to working “toward a
positive solution on tuition assistance in conference with the Senate.” Sens. Tim Scott (R-S.C.) and Ted Cruz (R-Texas) said earlier this week they’re confident the provision won’t make it into the final bill.
– The chorus of voices speaking out against the grad student tax, meanwhile, is growing. National Institutes of Health Director Francis Collins, who has broad bipartisan respect, on Thursday warned of negative consequences it could bring. “Anything that would diminish the interest in that talent of the next generation in joining that workforce is something we should be very cautious and careful about,” Collins said during a House Energy and Commerce Committee hearing. “I think we can all agree that given that science has driven our economy in this country by most estimates more than 50 percent of our growth since World War II, this is a very important issue for continued investment.”
– But it’s not just the grad student tax that has higher education leaders worried. Between them, the tax plans threaten to end a deduction on student loan interest and tax the richest private schools’ endowments, which those schools insist is a crucial source of scholarships for low-income students. The plans could also end deductions for state and local taxes, which could create problems for public colleges by putting a strain on state budgets. Colleges and universities also fear changes in the standard deduction will discourage charitable giving, which many of them rely upon heavily. Asked what his top priorities are moving forward, Bloom said: “That’s like asking me to make a Sophie’s choice. I can’t and I won’t. They hit different students in different ways. They’re all important.”
– One education leader who isn’t up in arms over the tax plan: Education Secretary Betsy DeVos, who said on Thursday she is “so encouraged” by the GOP’s efforts to do something about “our nation’s broken tax system.” Her enthusiasm was not shared by another Republican and former Education secretary, Margaret Spellings, who led the agency under George W. Bush and now is president of the University of North Carolina System. Spellings wrote in the Chronicle of Higher Education that the tax plan would be “a self-inflicted setback in the national effort to build a more competitive, better educated citizenry.”
Diane Ravitch's blog 
We know this administration is trying to destroy public education. Now the question is, what can we do about this?
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Reblogged this on David R. Taylor-Thoughts on Education.
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“Someone smarter than me will have to figure out why the Republican Party is intent on inflicting pain on college students, graduate students, and higher education. Don’t they know that our economy depends on having an educated populace? Don’t they know that successful societies invest in generating new knowledge?”
It’s just math. Their donors made their demands, and they gave their donors what they wanted. The budget math did the rest — kill as many deductions and exemptions as you can find until the 10-year deficit growth is under $1.5 trillion. It’s not personal, it’s business. If the Republicans had their way, they’d cut everybody’s taxes down to zero.
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FLERP! We need to realize that they don’t care. They are just doing what the donors want. As long as Money Talks to the electorate, it will remain the same and/or get worse. That’s why they are buying up education and the Press. That’s where such “talking” happens.
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The Republican party has been anti-higher ed for decades. Many in their donor class think education is a privilege not a right. Can you guess who ‘deserves’ to be educated and who doesn’t?
Reagan accelerated this immoral idea as CA gov & later as POTUS. He used tax cuts, block grants & generally under funded all of public education to quash campus protests and turn over scientific research to private entities. His words were he didn’t want to subsidize intellectual curiosity.
There is just no end to Republican awfulness.
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Altho evidently true of the rabid-rabble core Trumpistas, is it true that many in Reps’ donor class are anti-higher ed, believing it to be unworthy of govt support? Certainly deep-pockets ideologues like Kochs. But I would guess many industrial lobbies e.g. Big pharma & others are not anti-higher-ed govt support. I would lean more toward Flerp’s budget-math assessment: give them their lowered corp tax rate & assoc dereg druthers– then kill as many deductions & exemptions as needed to get below $1.5 trillion debt growth in 10 yrs.
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reason: a well-educated population votes Democratic.
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A really well educated population would realize that both parties serve the oligarchy and would, en masse, form a new political party and vote both corporate parties out of office permanently. Either that or storm Washington, DC with torches and pitchforks.
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Yep… the reason, in a nutshell.
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This is a popular meme, but it smacks to me of conspiracy theory. There may be a grain of truth to it– but look at how the unwashed masses of inner-city poor have been denied decent school funding forever, & have forever voted Democratic. I suspect the underlying issue w/Reps [& sadly, many Dems] is that ed is just so far down on their list of $-worthy priorities that they ignore it, & when needed, cutfunding for it.
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Wow. Weren’t the issues this raises settled during the Enlightenment? How is this still going on?
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No issues are ever ‘settled’.
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Although not directly related to this post, here’s another example of how higher education is under attack at the state level, Louisiana in particular: http://www.nola.com/opinions/index.ssf/2017/12/what_nicholls_state_and_harvar.html#incart_river_home_pop
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They are consistent, aren’t they? Fits right in w/their K12 policies. I wonder if [expect that] the same trend pertains in the states following the ‘successful’ NOLA K12 experiment. Wonder how things are going in the once-illustrious NC Research Triangle, e.g.?
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Francis Collins’s remark above underscores how the entire tax “debate” (I use the term loosely) is all about ideological, narrow self-interested greed.
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The GOP is afraid of public school teachers and state university professors.
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Why do you think this? What is your source?
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This is my own opinion. I believe they are afraid of public school teachers and state university professors because we are for equality and have brains, while the deformers have no clue and are thrashing.
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Diane They seem to think that pursuing open-mindedness, following ideas in an academic setting, and studying all views in order to develop your own, regardless of where that takes you is equivalent to purveying a curriculum based on democratic party-propaganda.
It’s the less extreme, but still corrupt version of the mentality of Pol Pot, the one-time ruler of Cambodia, who killed people because they could read. Education of the people has always been anathema to rich and power-hungry petty-tyrants. My God, don’t let people THINK for themselves. Saturate them with propaganda before they become “the people” of a democracy.
The Koch’s and Betsy, et al, who think wisdom from On-High comes with having money, think of Higher Education like they do the Constitution–it’s a ploy to brainwash students against their right-wing-religious and neo-liberal interests. To them, Higher Education is just a nest of anti-right-wing political power-grabbers whose only mission is to rob the neo-liberal oligarchs of their right to their Grand Delusion of Selfishness, complements of the Queen of Selfishness herself, Ayn Rand.
That’s why the Kochs have apparently infiltrated George Mason University (according to “Democracy in Chains”) and are building schools of economics to push their propaganda on campuses where schools of economics–real ones–already exist. The Koch’s, of course, have more bells and whistles.
And the Republican Congress apparently has drunk the kleptocratic, crony-capitalist poison that these small-minded people are trying to sell to the rest of us. They swing their power against democracy like a wrecking ball against a building. Only they don’t give a hoot who’s inside.
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Consider that the Republicans want to satisfy “the people who sent us here.”
Not the voters.
The deep pocket funders.
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Ugh. The USDOE is holding another “let’s sell public schools ed tech product!” event.
I hope no one from a public school is attending. They probably aren’t because they, well, HAVE SCHOOL so maybe they won’t make so many idiotic purchases, cheered on by ed reformers.
Please don’t buy what these people tell you to buy. Use your head. The whole reason we elect school boards is so we’ll have local representation. If you’re all going to follow Jeb Bush like lemmings and buy every gimmick and fad then we don’t need you.
It’s okay to tell them “no”. They’re no smarter than you are – fully half the time they’re just repeating what another ed reformer told them.
Say no. Say you aren’t buying faddish crap with public money this year. You won’t get arrested and local people will thank you down the road.
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Our ‘rulers’ want a pliable populace from which to draw workers or cannon fodder to protect their interests. Education (a real one) doesn’t produce thoughtless pliability. It encourages dissent and dialogue.
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John Yes. Snake oil to the slaves.
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Yes, and it’s far easier to maintain “labor discipline,” aka low wages and worker intimidation, with an under-educated/mis-educated population.
Now, back to Matt Lauer’s sex toys…
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If you accept that there is a SKILLS shortage a shortage of educated workers and of STEM workers , than you think that education is the key to prosperity .You think that an educated society will lead to a more prosperous society . If you know that the above statement is a myth than you realize that an educated society will lead to more competition for a limited number of positions . So why should they not keep it in the family so to speak . The Family being those who have the financial ability to send their children to elite institutions with out any outside financial assistance .That is the donor base of the Republican party both as Jack London called them in 1908, the major and minor oligarchs. . They just got a tremendous scholarship award. When they graduate these institutions they will then go out into the elite circles of American business and politics and pursue policy like ; Share holder value that has seen corporate profits go from a 50/50 split between returns and investment in the 60s to 94% returns to share holders today., To Creative Destruction and its devastating effect on American workers… …. . To the highest levels of government to insure that the oligarchy continues to be served.
An educated populous might know who is shafting them and how. Of course that all depends on how they were doing economically as we have seen many “educated suburban communities ” not only vote for Trump but probably soon for Moore . But the more educate the populous is, the more that pie gets divided. The more disgruntled the population will be. .They “love stupid ” IMHO
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Ah I think you put your finger on it right here: “If you know that the above statement [‘there is a shortage of educated workers and of STEM workers — education is the key to prosperity’] is a myth than you realize that an educated society will lead to more competition for a limited number of positions.”
In general I poo-poo the lib memes that cutting ed funding is all about keeping voters dumb/ Rep-voting & cultivating low-pd worker-bees etc. We don’t need to stretch to diabolical conspiracy theory to understand the simple “I’m getting my clout locked in– more for me, less for you” that is behind whole-lotta dereg/ anti-public-good bipartisan legislation happening steadily since 1980. This has been the go-to legislative chess move since automation/ globalization appeared on the horizon.
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The GOP is afraid of college professors and public school teachers. HONEST!
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I find your comment interesting. Since when do you think the GOP is afraid of college professors? I am GOP and I will stand toe-to-toe with them. Professors become afraid when they realize someone knows something about what they are teaching. When we have an educated populace, they will see through the public schools, to include higher ed and the teachers.
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Lloyd,
I’m not sure you should continue commenting here. People of all political views are welcome but when you start bashing teachers and public schools, you are on the wrong site.
No, all teachers and professors are not Communists. I don’t know any who are. Not one.
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So, as far as I can tell, the so-called excuse
for taxing the tuition remission for graduate students is because they are doing “work” for their colleges/universities in the form of teaching undergraduate courses and doing research. And that’s “work,” so the tuition remission should be taxed as compensation.
Well, okay, then why wouldn’t athletic scholarships (often including free room and board) be considered “work” and also taxed? Oh, I am sure that the excuse offered would be “But they’re scholarships!” Yet let’s face it, those athletes are working for the universities by playing sports, and, indeed, many if not most of those universities are making money off the work of those athletes. At many of the “big” NCAA schools, the universities take in a lot of money because of those athletes.
So, what’s the difference? If this tax plan passes, I would hope to see some lawsuits about the “student athlete” so-called “scholarships” not being subject to taxes.
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Good call
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But it may be a loophole for those grad students . Universities could start thumb wrestling teams . Provide scholarships to grad students and then still pay them a salary for teaching classes . The competitions to be held twice a year at the end of each semester.
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Hahahahaha!
Doesn’t even have to be thumb wrestling teams. How about various computer game/game system teams?
Who’s to say they’re any less legitimate than athletes putting on protective gear and bashing each other, causing the beginnings of CTE?
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For all the comments in this stream, I find it refreshing. The basic problem with higher ed is that the professors claim academic freedom while teaching the communism of Karl Marx. John Dewey, we all know who this guy is. He is the Father of the American educational system and he agrees with the precepts of Marxism.
I, for one, agrees with the whole idea of tax reform. We have been overtaxed for so long; too long, that the liberals can ruin the next generation’s mind, because, teachers in general hate our laws and our Constitutions. Yet, they certainly licked their eyebrows while taking advantage of the opportunities that were available to them.
My only question is, when will she finally close down the Department of Education? We never needed it in the first place. The only reason it exists, is to make communist education the same across the board. The NEA and the AFT control the education in this country. The basic rule of thumb here is this. Teach the 3 R’s first and foremost. But that is not true anymore. It is “no blood for oil” and lots more protests. College is the time to learn a life’s skill, not teach how to be an Antifa.
I am glad that this tax reform is hitting higher ed like it should. No students, no anti-US teaching.
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Lloyd,
I have worked in higher education for almost 50 years, and I have never met a Communist.
I know many teachers, and they all revere the laws and the Constitution. We have a president who violates the emoluments clause of the Constitution daily and reviles the First Amendment Protection of a free press.
The success of our country has been largely due to our education system and especially our investment in higher education, cultivating the minds that enable us to lead the world in many fields. Education is the engine of economic, social, cultural, and technological growth.
I am sad for you. You are a very angry and bitter person. I hope you find peace.
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I guess Becker would be happy to see the United States fall into Second World status.
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I do not find that I am a bitter person. I am generally pragmatic. You may have not met a card-carrying communist, but I can guarantee that you have met them; in the schools, changing children’s minds.
The school teachers I have met here, understand that applying their brand of academic freedom, only amplifies the conditions of common core.
Interesting that the 1st A should come to the statements. Exactly how is the emoluments clause violated? Giving his paycheck to charity, or giving it anywhere he wants to? That is none of yours, or my business.
Exactly, how is he violating the free press. The liberals have the free press all tied up. Now, the liberal free press has to print stories on those they have been protecting in the past.
I believe education is only one of the engines. What our parents teach us, is the other engine. Without them, people will still be without the social and cultural growth it takes to interface with others on a daily basis. Teachers are destroying the cultural fabric that made the United States the only place where freedom reigns supreme. Try flag burning in another country, I guarantee you won’t get far. Try talking about their country’s leadership. There are teachers, teaching how to use a dildo in the classroom. This is reprobate teaching.
I have material on America 2000, GOALS 2000, NCLB, and Common core. America 2000 did not launch because Bush 41 lost re-election.
I will leave it here, but if anyone wants a debate, I am game. You call me bitter, I say pragmatic.
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Diane Let’s leave Lloyd alone. He’s drunk the poison and thinks that, because the press reports on something that happens to benefit a “liberal” agenda, it then MUST BE LIBERAL! . . . . Because, of course, EVERYTHING is political, and ONLY political.
Until he gets by that colossal oversight and misunderstanding, he won’t change his mind. Maybe he will be invited to a DeVos-Trump party?
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I (and many others) have been in favor of eliminating the federal Dept of Education for many years. The educational responsibilities of the US Government, were well administered by the old Dept of Health, Education, and Welfare. Education should be a state responsibility, there is no specific mention of education, in the US Constitution. School teachers and principals in this nation, do not like being dictated to, by some faceless bureaucrats in WashDC.
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Well, when you look at math departments, the vast majority of the profs are foreigners who got their PhD in this country. In my department, only 10% of the profs are Americans. These foreign profs never would have been able to get their PhD with this tax bill. So who’d teach math in colleges?
Note that math teachers don’t teach anything related to communism.
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Math professors only need to teach math. This is about one of the only educational aspects where politics do not count. I see that you teach. Good! How’s your math skills? Check your 3,4,5 equation, you might need it.
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“Check your 3,4,5 equation, you might need it.”
What does this mean? What’s 3,4,5 equation?
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Have you checked the a^2 + b^2 = c^2.
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The very definition of circular logic, is it not?
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Wow. OK I’ll take the bait.
“The basic problem with higher ed is that the professors claim academic freedom while teaching the communism of Karl Marx. John Dewey, we all know who this guy is. He is the Father of the American educational system and he agrees with the precepts of Marxism.”
Did you go to college? I did. 50 yrs ago, that meant learning about Karl Marx theory alongside many, many countering theories, while studying results of various theories implemented in various places; the goal was not inculcation of any particular theory, it was learning to research & think for ourselves.
That was a liberal arts ed, which has not changed so much in 50 yrs. I remember in particular studying untrammelled capitalism — vs capitalism moderated by some govtl restraints aimed at tempering boom-bust cycles & moderating inc inequality so as to stave off revolts/ revolutions while avoiding overweening govt force, while preserving 1st amendment — all based on Founders’ et al 18thC docts– lessons apparently lost on you.
Then there are all those other more career-oriented tech degrees like those my sons earned, which give them only just enough gen philosophy/ history to engender curiosity & further self-learning while focusing on job-related skills: hate those too?
I share your concern re: the fed Dept of Ed. I would like to see it placed back in a Dept of HEW, charged only w/monitoring equal access to quality ed & gathering minimal useful statistics.
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Curiously, Beth… I also went to college 50 (plus five or so) years ago, and I went to a STEM school, an ‘Institute of Technology’. And, guess what, we were required to spend a semester studying the approach of Smith, Ricardo, Marx, and various others to the problem of economics. In such a short course, there was no time to read the entire works of these people, however at least it gave a taste which could lead to reading the entire ‘Wealth of Nations’, or ‘Das Kapital’, ect. Unfortunately, these works have been so misrepresented as to leave most people to think that they were tracts about forms of government (in truth, Smith’s tract could be viewed as a complaint against government established monopolies, which indicated that government should ensure competition by breaking up monopolistic giant concerns.. but… Marx, on the other hand, simply tried to understand the dynamics of capitalism, then a given).
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Lloyd Becker My liberal arts/philosophy education was a bit different, but pretty much covered all the political bases as others are saying here–and no one taught “communism.” But we sure learned a lot about it and all of the other political systems, including kingship. Where did you get the idea that all or most college teachers were communists or taught communism as an ideology or as propaganda? I smell Faux News, not to mention an empty-headed follower with an ideological mentality that can’t help but think that everyone is as dogmatic as you are.
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I went to the College of Business for one. I was also an instructor for another. Adult education, generally, teachers cannot get away with garbage being spewed on them like children coming out of high school.
Berkley is doing nothing but changing the mind of children to hate the United States, plus these college professors are leading the charge with these Antifa protests. And, they claim this, as academic freedom.
While I am particularly appalled at these teachers and professors doing this, we have just gained a new president of our college here. We have just a little over 25% graduation rate. She was in charge of academic success at Lansing Community College and the graduation rate is 9.4%. In the next few years, I can see another Berkley here.
It is fact, that since there has been a DoE, student performance has deteriorated. It needs to return to the HEW and let the states, school boards, and parents take over the education of their children.
We need to understand one very important thing. People who are taught to teach, understand the very methodology it takes to educate children. The community, says what to teach; 3 Rs first, then all others. A teacher who teaches to the dictates of the community, has no problem about coming to work the next day. Unions have no business in the classrooms. John Sweeney said, if the student pays union dues, then we would consider their rights to an education.
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Lloyd,
May I recommend that you read “Reign of Error”? I document that test scores for all groups of students are now the highest they have ever been. They are not flat, they are not declining.
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Lloyd Becker says: “It is fact, that since there has been a DoE, student performance has deteriorated. It needs to return to the HEW and let the states, school boards, and parents take over the education of their children.”
That’s Orwellian CODE for: Screw Democracy, PRIVATIZE, and rescind all regulations because Corporation CEO’s and plutocrats know better. (And besides: It’s not long before ALL of the State legislators and local school boards will be owned by those very people; and all school “choices” will be charterized and voucherized.)
I think Lloyd has a balance sheet (that’s ONLY about money) for a mind.
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Wow, just Wow…
Once upon a time, Lloyd, people didn’t need ‘jobs’. They actually worked for themselves (often together in groups) and provided for their own livelihood. Real education isn’t about providing a ‘workforce’. You have a lot to learn.
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Education is providing a workforce. Even the military will not accept a non high school graduate. So, try this again……
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Lloyd Becker The rule is: “necessary but not sufficient.” that is, it’s necessary for everyone to have an a modicum of general education to underpin their job success and potential. But a high school education is (in most if not all cases) sufficient to prepare a person to live well today.
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I think Socrates would disagree with you. Also Siddhartha, and probably Jesus, as well as Einstein.
“Education” comes from the same root as ‘eduction’. It involves a drawing out that leads to a more self-aware state and a better understanding of one’s own power and place in the world. As it turns out, an ‘educated’ person is often more competent in certain workplaces, however they can also be a problem. Because of their self-confidence and tendency to analyze, they are often prone to ‘second guessing’ the ‘boss’.
‘Job Training’ is not the same as ‘education’. Slaves were ‘job trained’.
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CORRECTION: That is, it’s NOT sufficient. CBK
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It is problem that we quibble over taxes. Income taxes should not exist therefore filing an income tax return should not be necessary. There are those that believe that the Income Tax Amendment was never legally ratified back in 1913. Even the US Supreme Court back then said that Congress had no new right to tax, afterward. Congress will never look into it because if true then the Federal Government has been stealing from the American people for over 100 years and putting people into prison for tax evasion and other crimes, wrongly.
In other words this should not even been a story.
But since it is I will continue here:
First a disclaimer—I have written on education and poverty and the economy in essays. What I have written I have put into e-books and I hope that I am not recreating the whole thing here. But it does take a lot of background information for my conclusions to make any sense but here it goes.
Diane Ravitch in your book, Reign of Error: The Hoax of the Privatization Movement and the Danger to America’s Public Schools, you say, “The jobs that are growing are the type that cannot be outsourced, such as, truck drivers and janitors. . . . but we should stop pretending that “putting more kids through college can restore the middle-class society we used to have.” Having a college degree is no longer a guarantee of getting a job, and it will be even less true in the future.” [87] This is what I have been saying for a few years now.
You continue, “Krugman [Paul Krugman?] concludes: “So if we want a society of broadly shared prosperity, education is not the answer—we’ll have to go about building that society directly.” [87,88]
Education is not going to restore the Middle Class (those that make in between $40k and $120k are considered the Middle-Class), which has been going away since the 1970s even as college graduations continued to rise. Oddly enough 2/3 to ¾ of all American make less than $30k per year, so I guess are considered the working poor.
If you look at it, education was not the reason we became the largest economy on Earth. Let me say that again, Education (in the macro or en masse) was NOT the reason why we became the largest economy on Earth. I want this to fully sink in.
We became the largest economy on Earth circa 1880, during the Gilded Age. This was long before education en masse or so-called diversity, for that matter.
According to one your own books we did not get a high school graduation rate of even 10% until 1910 or 30 years after we became the largest economy on Earth and that was only a small minority. Again according to the same book high school graduation rates increased 1% per year on average until 1930 (with a 30% high school graduation rate), so by that time we were the most educated workforce in our history (not much but still the most educated) but we had a depression that lasted until the end of WWII, or at least 10 years, if you think the Great Depression ended at the start of WWII. If education in the macro leads to a booming economy then why did we have a protracted Depression with the educated workforce that we had. Granted most adults had a 3rd grade or less.
By the end of WWII we had 16% college graduation rate and by 1950 we had a high school graduation rate of 50%.
The Federal government’s unconstitutional interference into education was on display with the Truman Commission Report on Higher Education for Democracy (published in 1947) when it one of stated goals to double college graduation rates by 1960 (which it achieved at 35%. It was 16%.). It wanted to fight the Great Red Scare—Communism with adults schooled in Democracy.
This of course meant more high school graduates as well.
So we had an artificial push by the Federal Government for education en masse. We also had the spoils of war that gave us jobs coming out of our ears. We were one of the few large countries that came out of WWII better off than we went into it. We had to help rebuild and feed Europe and Japan.
This gave us an ample supply of jobs no matter what educational one achieved. This great economy gave us the baby boomers, as well.
So, the spoils of war and not the artificial ‘need’ for inflated number of college graduates for Democracy (not for work by the way) made our economy boom even more until maybe the 1960s-1980s, when both Japan and Germany began to eat away on our monopoly – our market share in things like electronics and steel. We were threatened economically during that time by our former WWII foes.
Also, during the 1960s-2000, we had mass immigration that was legal. So much so that now we have 41 million US citizens that were not born here. At one time we had more. Some left and some died off.
Again, leave it the Federal Government to muck things up. Secretary of Education Bell’s commission produced the bogus report, A Nation at Risk, in April 1983. In only 18 months or so, they not only determined what was wrong with American Education/Economy but solutions too. They, too, wrongly thought that education was the answer to our economic problems.
This report may be where Hillary Clinton got the title for her book, It takes a Village. Read the Sandia Report that was published in 1990. It shoots holes in the Nation at Risk report. In fact there is a side by side comparison of the two online. One of the things the Sandia Report says is that the A Nation at Risk report over-estimated the relationship between education in the macro and the economy.
Fast forward to recession of 2008-2009 where millions of jobs were lost (in fact over 6 million lost that have not come back and just about half of these are college related jobs). We actually had more people out work than the height of the Great Depression, 1931-32, at 12 million (maybe 12.5 million) or so. In fact our official number of unemployed (those receiving unemployment checks) are at just over 12 million now. If we count the 88 million adults 18-64 years old long-term unemployed as needing a job then we have 100 million unemployed or about the size of the US population in the 1930s. Forget about the underemployed.
But today we have just over 40% of all adults with some kind of a college degree and we were just 5 months short of another depression in 2008-09. We have more unemployed than the Great Depression and this is nearly 10 years or more, like the Great Depression.
So, if education of the masses caused a booming economy then how is it we have millions unemployed. Of course, there are only about 150 million jobs (6 million open) and officially 12 million looking for jobs or a 2:1 ratio of people to open jobs. Our labor force is roughly 264 million (and about 1 million legal immigrants coming here every year) for only about 150 million total jobs. So, we have just over 50% of the jobs needed to attain full employment.
Jobs are expect to grow anther 10 million to 160 million, in the next 10 years, but then again we will have another almost 10 million legal immigrants here as well.
My point is education of the masses does not generate new jobs. In fact business schools teach to minimize the number of employees (or jobs) so the rich can get richer. This is the stock market at work for the rich and at the expense of the poor.
So, we have a glut of college graduates at all levels. They only educational level that we are short on is high school dropouts.
The Bureau of Labor Statistics says through at least 2022, 27% of all jobs will require less than a high school diploma, 39 % a high school diploma, 7% some college, 4% Associate’s degree, 18% bachelor’s degree, 2% Master’s, and 3% PhD’s. So only 27% will require a college degree (we have over 40%) and 34% total will require post-high school education. This means the 66% will require a high school diploma or less.
Many of those that they say require a high school diploma really don’t. For example, the biggest employer of high school graduates is the US military.
Companies and the US military over the years have just accepted that we are more educated but they say now we must be, in order to get jobs, because we are? I went into the military as a high school dropout in 1973 for the NavBat test and January 1974 for boot camp. Now it is very hard to enlist even with a GED. Forget it if you are high school dropout. Actually they say because of technology but computers make it easier not harder to do the job.
Maintenance is different, in that you can go to school to get trained to do these jobs. Most will not be in maintenance jobs though.
I got out of the military and got a GED and then went to Electronics school and became an Electronics Technician (ET) which I did for 25 years. If they had sent me to ET school I might still be in the military or more likely retired from it. Note: I got my GED 3.5 years after I dropped out and without studying for it. And I graduated with honors from my electronics school.
But this just goes to support my claim that employers have inflated education requirements basically because of supply and not based on actual demand. One does not need to be able to write a persuasive essay in order to perform a retail sales job.
A more educated workforce has not helped with unemployment and it also has not helped us keep our rights, by being more knowledgeable citizens. We have less liberty now than we had 100 year ago.
So, we have more college graduates than we currently need but it is worse than stated above. If 27% of all jobs of about 150 million is 40.5 million jobs and about 40% of 264 million (or 105.6 million) have college degrees, you can see that we do not have anywhere the number of jobs needed for the number of college graduates that we have. In fact it is a 2.6:1 ratio. So, we have more than 2 ½ times the number of college graduates for the jobs we have for them.
We need less college graduates and not more. Why are we pushing kids to go to college then?
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schiltz3 You ask: “We need less college graduates and not more. Why are we pushing kids to go to college then?”
. . . because we need fewer people like you who think that education, the middle class, and building a better culture for everyone (society) is ONLY about fulfilling economic concerns.
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Well, it’s not clear why we make our kids believe that most of the available jobs require college education. This is certifiably false, while the push for high college graduation rates is rationalized by saying, a college diploma and the associated skills will be needed in the job market in the future.
Why do we make our kids believe that jobs like plumbing, roofing, construction, electrician, auto repair are not cool?
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Mate Wierdl asks: “Why do we make our kids believe that jobs like plumbing, roofing, construction, electrician, auto repair are not cool?” First, do we really “make” our kids believe that? It might be good ask a few of them?
But in my view, it’s in part (in part because we are all different, and broad brushes don’t work as broadly as we all seem to want), we have a love-hate relationship with both (a) “hands-on” work and with ( b) reflecting, theoretical movements of mind, and generally the work of furthering our understanding through the work of intelligence that, we could say, is more like “minds-on.”
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Catherine, many kids wouldn’t mind physical work at all. They are just told, they need to go to college if they want to survive in the economy.
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Mate Are there OTHER REASONS to continue on with one’s formal education besides economic? I didn’t find out what those were until I actually went. Wow. What an eye-opener.
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Well, Catherine, I would hope that there would be room for vocational education, as well as more academic education.
I would like for all our kids to be educated to the best of their abilities, but while we are at it, also educate them to be critical thinkers and thoughtful citizens.
And leave room for those, as well, who are not looking to work for corporations, whether in STEM or other fields, and who are not looking to work as mechanics, electricians, plumbers, etc, but who are also interested in art, music, philosophy, and so on.
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Zorba Do you really think that “academics” are opposed to a person’s “vocation”?
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Did I say that, Catherine? I don’t believe I did, reread what I said.
Every child should be encouraged to follow their interests and abilities. And I would also hope that, instead of schools pushing the “all testing, all the time” mantra, they would be trying to help each child become educated so that they could become thoughtful citizens of this country as well as becoming productive members of society, in whatever area they are able to and want to, whether it is as a scientist, an engineer, a businessman/woman, a plumber, an electrician, an artist, an actor, a musician, whatever.
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This is an Obama thing. Lot of people do not want to be a college graduate. Some have their eye on vocational schools. An electrician can be in the workforce in 50% of the time it takes a person to graduate with a workable degree that will get you an entry level job.
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Lloyd Becker I know–it’s from Obama, whom I wish was back, but who was really wrong about education, except where Michelle’s work was concerned.
But Language Matters. In this case, to distinguish and separate VOCATION from ACADEMICS is to subtly accept that developmental and theoretical work in academic institutions has nothing to do with specific persons’ chosen vocations.
Such distinctions and “assignments of significance” enter common language and become an assumed but false way of separating institutions of education, and theory development, from “the real world.” When in fact, it’s the opposite:
Though theories can be wrong or incomplete, a good theory (verified hypothesis) has the remarkable value of sorting out otherwise intractable and recalcitrant problems–in applications in that real, and non-scientific world. Those who take up that kind of life commonly take it up as a life’s vocation. Just ONE insight that can come from undergoing higher education is to UNDERSTAND JUST THAT; and so to help rid our common narrative of its false and anti-intellectual distinctions.
In brief, we need to stop being carriers of false ideas through the subtle import of such ideas into our language.
More broadly, and as others have remarked here, the whole movement that’s going forward with regard to higher education is based in a DeVos-type anti-intellectualism. It consists of a person with a low horizon but with lots of power who, using that power, defines the entire world and their policies by the gross limitations of that low horizon. Add God to it, and you have the power-problems of TODAY.
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One of the main reasons (higher) education was pushed in early 1900s was the realization that all the scientific inventions (which ensures long term growth) were not done in the US but in Germany and GB. Now, on the other hand, most biological and medical research are done in this country. The same can be said about computer science.
The US has become the global economic leader exactly as a result of this homegrown higher ed. It has no competition now, which certainly was not the case in early 1900s.
Mass K-12 education is not about economic prosperity.
What needs to be separated is mass K-12 education and higher education, and their purpose and connection with the economy.
I do agree that in order to ensure high graduation rates, colleges increase enrollment and lower the quality of education. This is in nobody’s interest.
Referring to a more than 200 years old document when arguing about the legitimacy of mass education is like referring to the Bible when discussing the geological history of the Universe: can be done, but many people will start checking their phones for text messages.
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Before commenting on the premise, thanks for providing this broad-brush look at employment & ed, especially the stats on the current employment picture. This reflects my sense of how things really are today vs the puzzling pronouncement “we’re almost at/ at full employment” I hear so often lately. I’m assuming the stats are well-researched & would welcome some key cites.
I doubt if you’d find much disagreement here that we push too many toward college. Many would also say that opportunity to train in the trades is much slimmer than it was 40 yrs ago. That, combined w/dire govt/ industry warnings that w/o coll ed job outlook is bleak– which we’ve been hearing since late ’70’s– has come close to eliminating public-hisch vo-tech training. However, the [in fact bleak] employment stats for ‘desk jobs’ just push more & more toward college so as to have a longer resume w/which to compete for fewer positions. Regardless of whether successful applicants ‘needed’ BA/BS to perform the job.
Where I push back is on your premise that hisch/ some college/ coll degree is all about training for the workforce. Education and employment are parallel paths which intersect/ overlap at various points. Educational advancement is an organic part of the advancement of civilization and culture. Some advance their education via employment, some earn money for practicing skills they learned post-high-school, some work jobs that are not related to their ed, many move back & forth among those scenarios during their working lives. To suggest that govt-assisted ed should be limited to the skills one needs for a specific range of jobs is impractical in today’s world and does not serve the quickly-changing nature of the employment & tech scene. To suggest that we needn’t help educate the citizenry beyond the basics– who needs a bunch of critical thinkers & theorizers/ problem-solvers– seems short-sighted and anti-intellectual.
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I think, CBK blocked me from discussing. I placed a comment on her, it did not show. Mind you, I am not irritated, I just think it is a way to get out of a debate.
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No one can block you but me.
I’m considering it given your hostility to teachers. This is a site to support public schools and teachers.
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This was supposed to be a reply to Diane’s comment to Lloyd. I hope it comes in the right place:
I’m not sure who ‘Lloyd’ is, however he did state that he went to a ‘College of Business’, which sounds like a trade school to me. Also, he was an ‘instructor’ (????) There’s a big difference between ‘instructing ‘ (handing down orders) and educating.
It is interesting to see how graduates (did Lloyd graduate?) of ‘College(s) of Business’ think. It should also be a bit of a ‘wake up call’.
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I think you mean Lloyd Be ker, not Lloyd Lofthouse. Becker thinks that all college professor (except himself) are Communists, and teachers are leeches.
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Lloyd Becker I blocked you from discussing? Whaaaaaaa???? I didn’t think you were delusional, just off-course. But now . . . .not so much.
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