Lots of interesting things going on about education but I have to say something about what is happening in Egypt.
I am a historian by trade, and I care passionately about democracy and the democratic process.
I don’t think a modern society can evolve when democracy is stifled.
The people are not always right but they should always have the right to participate in choosing their leaders.
That is why I am very uneasy about the military coup in Egypt.
The papers list all the problems with Morsi, but he had one big advantage: He was freely elected in a fair election.
He had legitimacy because he was elected. Those who ousted him lack legitimacy.
If the people don’t like what he was doing, they should go to the polling places and vote him out.
Knowing that the U.S. government pumps over $1 billion each year into the Egyptian military, which is supposed to encourage regional stability, I am even more uneasy.
I wonder if our government gave a wink and a nod. The silence of the White House and the State Department is very loud.
I don’t much care for Islamist regimes. But I care very much about democracy.
We–and the Egyptian military–undermine it at our peril.
Diane Ravitch's blog 
Agree!
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as im sure we all recognize in our country which can not be called a true democracy, democracy is not just about free elections. for democracy to function properly it must have an informed and active citizenry willing to stand against injustice and challenge corrupt power. in the U.S. we do not have yet have that capability on large scale…that is why our democracy continues to be lost. what the majority of Egyptians did is what we need to do. Morsi showed himself to be incompetent, only concerned with consolidating power rather than doing right by his people. the majority of Egyptians recognized that and did something about it. this is not a comment on what will happen. it is only a comment on what did happen. democratically elected governments lose legitimacy when they do not do right by their people. therefore democracy was not stifled, in my humble opinion.
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Peaceful protest is a legitimate form of democratic engagement , just as much as free and fair elections. It is sad that the military had to intervene to get Mr. Morsi out, but that does not undermine the legitimacy of a people’s protest.
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Diane, just like the media’s coverage of US Education can be biased, don’t you think this might be the same for the situation in Egypt? Here is a letter from the head of ARCE, the American Research Center in Egypt:
Dear Members of the Board of Governors and Expedition Leaders,
If you have been getting your news from such sources as CNN, BBC, Al Jazeera, etc., you have been getting a very skewed view of things in Egypt. To the best of my ability as an informed observer, what has taken place in Egypt was that the vast majority of the Egyptian people took to the streets to continue their revolution and remove a ruling party that had taken consistent steps to turn Egypt into a one-party, Islamic dictatorship. The majority – again in my opinion – believe that the military have acted in accordance with the will of the majority of Egyptians, and that no coup has taken place.
CNN, etc. have focused on military coups and bloody clashes, and have missed the fact that literally millions of Egyptians turned out on the streets, particularly in Tahrir Square and at the Presidential Palace to show the media and the US administration that they approve of the recent actions taken by the military, from the removal of President Morsi to the appointment of the head of Egypt’s Constitutional Court as Interim President, to the picks for Interim Prime Minister and Interim Vice President. These massive rallies were basically both peaceful and celebratory.
Nor does the Western media seem to generally remember that the Muslim Brotherhood has spent the last year heavily arming themselves. The army could have done a better job at keeping the Rebel and Muslim Brotherhood demonstrators apart on July 6th, and there are now investigations under way to determine what exactly happened this morning (the 8th) at the Republican Guard barracks.
I would say that the majority of Egyptians feel that the US and the Western media have either been hijacked by the Muslim Brotherhood or have been supporting their cause. This, in turn, has caused the worst anti-American sentiments in Egypt since I began as ARCE director in 2003. Ambassador Patterson and President Obama are held in particularly contempt. The US Embassy has been closed since June 27th, as has USAID and ARCE, and ARCE received notice from USAID yesterday that we needed to evacuate any non-essential American staff (all ARCE American staff are viewed as non-essential by the US Government).
Many ARCE ex-pat staff either have already left Egypt for their summer breaks, or are in the process. Of those of us left still in country, Kathleen and I will depart for the UK tomorrow (where we will be attending the annual British Museum colloquium), and John Shearman and Janie Abdul-Azziz both depart on Thursday. We have also asked our three remaining fellows to depart. One will be leaving tomorrow morning, another on Thursday, the third has yet to tell us his plans, although Djodi will be meeting with him this afternoon to discuss his departure. All ARCE Egyptian staff, whether in Cairo or Luxor, are safe and healthy. They will continue to monitor things in the absence of ARCE’s ex-pat staff.
As of my writing, most of Cairo and most of Egypt remain calm. ARCE property is secure.
In closing, I would like to share with you the best reaction I have yet seen to Egypt’s current situation by members of the US government. It was released on July 5th as a joint statement by Chairman Royce and Ranking Member Engel of the House Foreign Affairs Committee:
“… What the Brotherhood neglected to understand is that democracy means more than simply holding elections. Real democracy requires inclusiveness, compromise, respect for human and minority rights, and commitment to the rule of law. Morsi and his inner circle did not embrace any of these principals and instead chose to consolidate power and rule by fiat. As a result the Egyptian people and their economy suffered greatly.
“It is now up to the Egyptian military to demonstrate that the new transitional government can and will govern in a transparent manner and work to return the country to democratic rule. We are encouraged that a broad cross-section of Egyptians will gather to rewrite the constitution. All parties in Egypt must show restraint, prevent violence, and prepare to be productive players in the future democratic Egypt. We encourage the military to exert extreme caution moving forward and support sound democratic institutions through which the people and future governments can flourish.”
Finally, in a meeting that John and I held in the ARCE Maadi apartment this morning with a member of the Ministry of Antiquities staff, there is presently no Minister of State for Antiquities, and a new one will need to be named by the interim government in due course.
As always, I will send a further update as appropriate.
Best wishes,
Gerry
—
Gerry D. Scott, III
Director
American Research Center in Egypt
Cairo
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completely agree with the general gist of this statement…our mainstream media can not be trusted with giving American viewers the full scope of the complexity of the situation in Egypt……or anything for that matter…they didn’t do it with Libya….and its been proven they haven’t been doing it with Syria
“What the Brotherhood neglected to understand is that democracy means more than simply holding elections. Real democracy requires inclusiveness, compromise, respect for human and minority rights, and commitment to the rule of law. Morsi and his inner circle did not embrace any of these principals and instead chose to consolidate power and rule by fiat. As a result the Egyptian people and their economy suffered greatly.”
this could not be more true…especially for our democracy. Who views Barrack Obama as legitimate anymore? Voted for him in 2012 just like most Egyptians voted for Morsi…never making the mistake of voting for the Democrats again…the duopoly sucks.
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I do however oppose the military arresting brotherhood members…but that is a comment on the imperfection of the revolution…not the legitimacy of it in ousting morsi. Anyone engaging in revolution would do well to follow Gandhi’s model and follow the principles outlined in Pedagogy of the Oppressed by Paulo Freire which from my humble analysis provides the rationale behind Gandhi’s method.
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Morsi lied about not instituting an Islamist state that gave the brotherhood dominance and he was giving himself powers not granted by the constitution.
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I’d like to better understand what to do with the demise of our own democracy although we may learn from the Egyptians . Democracy is fragile and threatened in many counties and there are similarities as well as differences in the major players. In our own case, I think we are screwed until Citizens United is changed.
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By the way $1 billion is nothing. LAUSD’s school construction program is $27 billion and DOD is $650 billion. So what. What matters is what happens in Egypt for their people and in the Middle East in general. Get priorities straight. War and killing is bad. Serving the People is Good. Religious fundamentalism is bad. Governing for all is good. That is what is needed there is anyone listening to them. The message is simple “We are tired of being used like trash.” These are really old cultures. We are not. Look at who Egyptians are and their history. We need to help them and others not kill them as we have been doing. Read history. All the lessons are there.
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I agree with your assessment of what is going on in Egypt; just another example of the dangers of a military who can run the government. Just as Ike warned us about the military/industrial complex over 50 years ago. Today, we have the SECRET ARMY of the JSOC who actually runs the drones and mostly, their “killing machine.” They actually super-cede the power of the Pentagon/CIA, to say nothing of any shred of oversight by the bought and paid for Congress. I can’t emphasize how everyone should read Jeremy Scahill’s new book, “Dirty Wars.” It has been a revelation to me about what has been taking place since “W’s” illegal, bogus invasion of Iraq. Now, Obama is doing drone murders, killing of civilians that has gained him the dubious title of “How Bushing, Bush.” We ALL need to know what is being done in OUR NAME, because WE will suffer the blow back of military, egregious acts that could ONLY make those ravaged nations truly hate us with a frightening passion!
The media refuses to cover world events and instead fills the airways of MSNBC, CNN and the rest with that murder case in Florida, 24/7. We need to force the news
media to be the guardians of freedom and watchdogs of the powers in Congress that they are supposed to be. They are a nauseating excuse, and we, the public are kept from knowledge of world/national events that we will ultimately pay for in blood, treasure and hatred of nations.
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Morsi is Muslim Brotherhood. That is not a democratic group. He won by a narrow margin and it is believed that the election was not honest. Morsi is also involved in the Benghazi murders. See Walid Shoebat’s website. To say we need to support Morsi because he was democratically elected is naive to say the least. Please research the Muslim Brotherhood. Hitler too, was democratically elected.
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I agree with Diane. Let’s hope that there will be clarity from all points on the political compass as this story from Egypt evolves.
For some reason, as this stuff has lately become big news, I’ve been remembering warnings given by my Dad. He walked from the coast of France to the Austrian Alps (with the 44th Infantry Division) during some very rough months in 1944 and 1945. Don’t believe the first telling of any story, he insisted. Dig deeper if only for our own sake. And as many now know, recent histories (for me best, Atkinson’s trilogy) have helped overcome the simplifications of that heroic narrative. During wars, people do bad things. Not just the bad guys…
Anyway, this is 2013, but the challenges are the same.
The uncritical enthusiasms in some places for the “Arab Spring” and “Tahir Square” needed a closer and more nuanced look all along. The same crowd sourcing and “social media” coordination that was so gushingly pushed a couple of years ago as inevitably “progressive” always has and always will have a dark side.
As anyone familiar with the history of dictatorships knows, these large cheering and clapping crowds can as soon be assembled at Nuremberg in 1936 or Bucharest in 1988 as in the furtherance of equity and democracy.
And as became clear long before now, the same mass communications that might further democratic protests one day can be used to coordinate rapes and muggings the next. That much has been true since the Gutenberg Bible, then the first iteration of a new wave of mass democratic communications, gave rise to more than a hundred years of vicious wars — as well as much liberating stuff. In the context of the battles today in the USA over “school reform” it’s clear: We need to be freed to teach and study the complexities of real history — not just multiple choiced simplifications.
And yet today there seem to be some who are now rushing into the gushing about how the Egyptian military has “saved democracy”.
My question to some of my “progressive” colleagues at this point has been:
“If Morsi had been named Allende, would you still feel good about what the Egyptian military just did?”
Like it or not, democracy, with all its imperfections, is sometimes the best we’ve got. And some study of the complexities of history always helps when confronting today.
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http://www.tariqramadan.com/spip.php?article12927&lang=fr
Interesting piece on the situation in Egypt by Tariq Ramadan.
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I don’t think for a minute that any of this is about Democracy. It would be wonderful to have such hopes and lofty beliefs. No! It is about the reconfiguration of the Middle East, and the World for that matter. From the littliest matter to what seems the greatest at the time, the people of the world are the last to know what any of this is truly about.
It would appear that finance and government elite, along with military and defense elite are working in some another time frame from the rest of us and moving towards a global initiative which less about “the People” and more about a higher cast of players beyond our knowing but we are in their control. We are pawns on the chest board and are moved into place with the cunning and shrewdness of masters.
All the logic we see in this blog and the obvious outrageous fight to have our own Democracy remain in tack is now revealed. Every now and then you have someone who doesn’t get it and goes their own way screaming “The King Isn’t Wearing Any Clothes!”
like the judge in Conn., or Diane Ravitch an the majority of her bloggers and the researchers within them, and others. Some cultures in our own patchwork quilt of a country have always gotten it but for many in the great amazing Middle Class where people got comfortable and thought it would last forever and then the chain got yanked. Financial security attacked, forclosures on homes, urban shrinkage demands, schools shuttered and all those plans for college and the American Dream bashed!!
And our courts are complicit at very high levels.
Today a simple change of law and regulation requiring all menus have dietary measurements (here we go again) printed on them. Of course, a guy selling barritos from a street stand or a very small business owner will struggle with that cost but the bigger chain restaurants will comply. So first we had many and now we have five. Those restaurants will have levels of offering like Taco Bell One (high quality offereings), Taco Bell Two (Medium selections), or Taco Bell Three (for the common folk). The rest of the population will be going to the food banks if they still exist. Oh! That’s right that is where the working poor go now. Cynical?! You bet!
Possible?!! You best! Like the level of Charter Schools that will cater to the gifted and move it on down to bare bones rote learning without accommodations or expansive learning curriculums, arts, sports etc.yep fodder for the For Profit Prison Entrepenuers. You know, the push through drop out low wage earner folks.
This isn’t science fiction anymore Dorothy, NO! you have just landed in real time techno
zero tolerance, obey or pay the price, measurement universe. Or take a stand and begin to fight like it is a battle and not just game of words. No one is apparently listening.
The judge in Conn. is my hero at this moment in time. I know there are more. The people in this blog have certainly begun to open the door….thank you.
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An excellent symmetrization of the covert powers that are unknown to 99% of the public, but hold power over nations, including the US.
That fact has been pummeled whenever it dare inform the blissfully ignorant of its existence. ALL one need do to allay possible fears of reality is rip out the old “Mind stopper” of CONSPIRACY NUT! The
egregious proofs of conspiracies stare the public in the face daily, but, with simplistic, groundless epithets, reality dies a quick death.
The economic meltdown of ’08 didn’t just “happen,” the massive spying that now cradles us in a truly “big brother state” didn’t just pop out of the deserts of Utah by happenstance. On and on, nefarious plots are hatched and the ruinous legacies they enable have destroyed the health, wealth and future of our nation. RIGHT UNDER OUR “KARDASHIAN” CHALLENGED MINDS! If one doubts the subterranean power structure that is hidden by the Punch and Judy, farcical play that the public THINKS is all there is that shapes our world, I would HIGHLY RECOMMEND Scahill’s revelatory book, “Dirty Wars.” Or, since it is rather lengthy (512 pages of text), just skip to page 246 and read what is happening NOW, the unknown
wars of Yemen, Somalia and the “Kill lists” that Brennan and McChrystal concoct weekly. That investment of time to read reality would shake even the most complacent out of the fog we all live in.
Oh, before I end, were any of us aware of another trade agreement that is being passed WITHOUT ANYONE, LET ALONE THE CONGRESS’S KNOWLEDGE OR APPROVAL? Yep, another “agreement” just like NAFTA, GAFTA and ALL the other country robbing rouses we thought would be great. This one is even more audacious! It’s with the EUROPEAN UNION! Wanna bet who will profit? Darn sure won’t be us…
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“If the people don’t like what he was doing, they should go to the polling places and vote him out.” diane ravitch
Great idea, just like our “Democracy”. If we don’t like what the “Elected” are doing, we can vote them out. Voting gives the people a “Seat at the Table”.
We can use our seat at the table to make sure the decisions of the non-elected,
appointees, administer the “Will of the people”.
If we don’t “Like” the changes in K-12, we can vote. Then the Appointees will change
their stance.
Order will be restored.
If we don’t like what the appointees of Finance, Insurance, Real Estate, Military,
(FIREM) are doing, we can vote the “Elected” out. Then the Appointees will change
their policies.
The “Will of the People” will be restored.
Relax bloggers, Just Vote, and the non-elected will show you a thing or two about Democracy and how it works…
Don’t confuse the power differential of a Dictatorship and the un-elected government
of Democracy.
The “Fabric” (Clothes) of Democracy. is always spun by the “People that Count”…
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The Egyptian constitution adopted in 2012 was flawed in key ways that allowed the elected government to repress religious freedom and allowed the military to retain overwhelming power; the struggles there should be seen as a continuation of revolution which seeks a legitimate democratic constitution.
We on the other hand are ruled by such a document, and our current travails are neither the result of failure to take to the streets, nor of a weak press. The responsibility lies squarely on the shoulders of our electorate. Over the last 35 years we have repeatedly elected people who have promised to meet the challenges of globalization and the digital revolution by blaming taxes and big government, and have stood by watching them undo every protection we had against the untrammeled capitalism that brought on the Great Depression. A weak press and crippled public institutions are logical consequences
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A military run government is NEVER a good thing. It is by its nature undemocratic, ruling by the gun and the prison.
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The Muslim Brotherhood will use the democratic process to get into power, but they have shown that they have little other use for democracy. Morsi declared his actions to be beyond judicial review and he and his fellow Islamists set up a constitution that did not represent all Egyptians. I have Coptic friends and I have been horrified at the stories of religious persecution over there, often at the hands of the Muslim Brotherhood, or the like-minded Salafists. Below is a forum that has been discussing the persecution of this ancient ethnic and religious minority:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,40208.msg948957.html#msg948957
There is more to democracy than having an election. The fact that over a third of Egypt’s population turned out in the streets to protest Morsi showed that he did not know how to rule democratically, and that most Egyptians don’t want to live under a religious dictatorship. Let’s hope that the next government will be more willing to work with all the people of Egypt.
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When is a democratic election invalid? When it puts in office a despot who ignores the law and who won by unethical practices and whose policies try to destroy democracy. Sound familiar, Diane? YOU voted for him.
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I didn’t realize that Diane had voted for Georgie the Least. But I guess that makes sense considering who she was hanging out with at the time-various right wing “think” (sic) tanks.
Oh, but that’s right, Georgie the Least wasn’t voted in but installed by the US Supreme Court usurpers from the right end of the political spectrum (with full help from the Bush family political machine down in Florida).
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Duane, I have not disclosed how I voted in any election.
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Diane,
I realize that but thanks for reiterating the point. I was trying to be a bit facetious in responding to HU. My apologies if that “treating serious issues with deliberately inappropriate humor; flippant.” did not come across.
Duane
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The AP recount gave Florida to Bush by some 500 plus a few votes. So you are inaccurate there. I meant that Diane had voted for Obama, twice, a fact which to my mind calls into question the reality perception of anyone. He simply fooled the majority of votes both times, less so the second, and now we are seeing who he really is, Benghazi, IRS, NSA, NLRB(recess appointments), not to mention NCLB (Bush too), RTTT, CCSC. Chicago politics writ large. So, go Tea Party.
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Harlan, how do you know who I voted for? Were you in the booth with me? I have never published my vote. We have a secret ballot in the US.
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GREAT RESPONSE! His groundless attacks on others political/philosophical beliefs are belittling and pompous. I refuse to read his polemics any more. Not worth the angst!
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“. . . 500 plus a few votes.” Not all the votes were recounted.
I don’t believe that Diane has said for whom she has voted for president but prove me wrong.
And I’m no fan of the Obomber the Usurper who has managed to surpass Georgie the Lesser in abusing their constitutional mandates and oath of office.
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You announced your support for Obama on the blog before the 2012 election. That can be verified. I don’t remember your saying how you voted in 2008 or before. You are one of the more pleasant and honest passengers on that ship of fools.
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HU,
I’m not sure if your comment is directed at Diane or me but I will take it as a response directed at me.
No, I’ve never “supported” the “Obomber”from before the first time he was elected to the White House. I saw through his rhetoric and looked at his deeds and saw a man devoid of conscience as has been borne out by his actions in the Oval Office. As a matter of fact I’ve been deriding him as much as I deride Georgie the Least.
“That can be verified”. Please do so!
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Harlan, crawl back under the tea bag rock you exist under. Your pompous prattling s are the mosquitoes at Diane’s informative blog.
The rest of us find you irritating and vapid. Sad to say, a perfect definition of your tea bag, friends en total.
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I always enjoy your fuliminations, sweetpea62013. No danger Diane will drop you for personal attacks, however.
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No, not all of us find HU “irritating and vapid”.
Misguided, yes (just as he views us as misguided) but, for me that’s what makes discussions fun, having differing points of view and throwing them out there for discussion
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Duane, I removed HU’s comments only on one occasion, when he crossed the border into personal invective towards other commenters. Otherwise, I leave him free to express his views no matter how much I disagree with them. That’s what free speech is about.
And by the way, I have never revealed for whom I voted. Not even to Harlan U.
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“I always enjoy your fuliminations, sweetpea62013. No danger Diane will drop you for personal attacks, however.”
That is probably true. A one issue comment doesn’t last in America.
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Harlan has attacked writers, made insinuations about others beliefs, votes, etc. It is apparent to me that his purpose is just to be an irritant, not part of a dialogue with others. His arrogance fueled by his tea bag thinking serves neither his philosophy nor the topic at hand. Rather like Shakespeare’s quote, “Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.” No one else has this attitude that is anything but furthering the discussions.
It gets tedious and truly irritating! Did Larrydunbar posit this thought, or Harlan…in either case, my “fulminations” are based on FACTS not polemics to diminish others beliefs with sarcasm and vitriol.
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I assure you that I am Larrydunbar, and not Harlan. I am just suggesting that he represents pretty much a single issue and that when all those tea-bagger representatives get voted back out, or the free-money from corporations to pay for their insurgency is no longer there, because the oil industry and all the lobbyists have picked the platter clean, then the status quo will pretty much be still in place. It will then be up to the people who are left in the communities to pick up the pieces, and those elites at the top can take a big jump out of a very tall building, as they did during the first Great Depression :).
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H U, Here’s some more of my “Pyscho Babble”:
The impact of whatever you perceive is proportional to the value you assign it.
A man is no greater than the size of the thing that bothers him.
If a pi$$ ant can dampen you, how big are you?
Panties can only bunch, if you WEAR them.
If you attach great value to magic words like Democracy, Rule of Law, Baggers of
Tea, Free Market, you do so on your own accord.
Take the high road. Everyone is entitled to their own illusions.
Santa is coming to town with the next election…
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You can have whatever your daddy can pay for. Anything else is theft.
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Blah, blah blah!
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While you “Program” the 99% to serve the 1%… DEAL
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